OPEN 732 : PICK YOUR POWER X/Y (GAME OVER)

[vulcan logician]

VOTE: VulkanLogician

Tautologies must die

(Sigh.) But it's

not

a tautology because Vulcans are

not

necessarily logical. By and large, they are a logical people... as a cultural standard. But innately and naturally, they are highly emotional beings. It just so happens that most impose logic upon themselves. (Read up on your Vulcan history, particularly the figures of Surak and T'Pau.) Some Vulcans, Sybok for instance, eschew the Vulcans' adherence to logic and rationality and fully embrace their emotional natures. So, no tautology here.

VOTE: BuJaber

... it's only logical.

[vulcan logician]

This isn't spontaneous ruru? Wow.

Vulcan AP and Ausuka should post more

Hey guys. Sorry I haven't posted. Very long and busy day, and I'm too worn out to parse through the thread. Bad timing for the first game day. Tomorrow I will be able to devote a few hours to the game with a fresh head, but I gotta get some sleep right now.

I'm a fairly active player, as some of you know. So no worries in that regard.

[vulcan logician]

Hey guys, I'm here. I'm like 3 pages behind but I'm catching up. So sorry to have not contributed. I'm gonna do a list of ISO reads to make up for it though.

So far, I gotta say that Ceej is the towniest I've ever seen him. I lean town on him, but my inner paranoiac wonders if scum!ceej is just not super towny. (I've never played with Ceej as scum.) I know that I tend to come off as more towny when I roll scum... perhaps because, in those cases, I actually take time to do things with the intent to come off as towny.

I'm no longer feeling my BuJaber vote, so

UNVOTE:

Also ofrhz seems pretty town too.

I'll probably have a scum pick or two after I do my ISOs, so stay tuned.

[vulcan logician]

Just FYI, I'm in the house... need to catch up.

[vulcan logician]

I'm back after a prod and fully caught up. At this point, I am town reading ofrhz and okapoka on tone.

Ruru's claim has me townslotting her for the moment. It makes sense for meta reasons.

Skygazer: nullish to town. @skygazer, my "peppered in" paranoia of Ceej is warranted. He really isn't usually this townie as town. I have my eye on him, but, of course, that's a shit reason to sumread him.

No scumleans so far, sorry.

[vulcan logician]

Just being honest really. A lot of things factor into my flimsy post. First of all, I'm used to smaller games. This is a bit overwhelming. Second, I simply hate day 1 of any mafia game because I suck at making an assessment with little to no hard evidence. Third, I haven't had much time to devote to the game as I normally do. Fourth, I have more than just tone on Okapoka (I think) but I'm keeping some stuff close to the chest. Fifth, I really am planning some ISOs, and I don't want to snap to any judgments before I saturate myself with as much information as possible. Sixth, I'm lazy. (I'll try to make up for the last item with some astute ISOs if possible).

[vulcan logician]

Just to add, I'm here real time, if anyone wants to get my opinion on a particular thing/player. That might help me wedge my way back into this game. (I feeling a bit out of the loop and wondering how to get back in.)

Also, I think a ceejay wagon might be a fruitive exercise... see how he responds to a little pressure.

VOTE: ceej

[vulcan logician]

Well, I guess this is one way to get me involved. Lol.

[vulcan logician]

VOTE: vulcan logician

im not liking this play coming from vulcan

he is being lazy but sheepy

But does lazy/sheepy= scum? And aren't there other reasons for hopping onto a wagon other than sheepiness? (For instance, being curious how Ceej might respond to pressure. And seeing an opportunity to create momentum on a ceej wagon).

[vulcan logician]

one thing to be a lazy player

another thing to be a sheep player

but its a whole thing to be a lazy, sheep player who wants to pressure other players

I'll admit that I've been lazy, but seriously, I'm not sheeping. And if I were sheeping, would I be so bloody obvious about it as scum?

p-edit: @skygazer- there is more than one way to skin a cat. Sure, a player can parse through other players' statements and give reads, but also, there is "shaking things up" which quite often can lead to more information for town later on down the line.

I think that enigma might be scum, but if he flips green at this point, that will yield little information for town. I think a competing wagon might tell us more. And I'm willing to be that wagon.

[vulcan logician]

Finally vulcan is here. Arghhhh

Any gutreads @vulcan?

Tbh, I'm not the best "gut reader".... I occasionally hit a bullseye, but, at best, my gut is no better than random, so I tend to not rely on my own gut except perhaps as a starting point.

I'll go ahead and try to muster a gut read though (since you asked)...I don't trust your "super-towniness" ceej... it's a bit uncharacteristic. I suppose you might lump that into the gutread category, but it's ultra-paranoid thinking. I was hoping to see you in the pressure cooker where I might use my meta knowledge of you to discern your alignment. I don't think that will happen now that I'm in the spotlight, but that's fine. I think the wagon on me has the potential to generate some good information for town.

I am in the middle of (actually) doing some ISOs atm, but I'm periodically checking the current posts, so if anyone has anything to ask me/accusations to level etc. go ahead.

[vulcan logician]

Vulcan you're spending more time defending yourself than gamesolving

This feels a bit forced

Yeah, I got that impression too.

[vulcan logician]

I don't trust your "super-towniness" ceej... it's a bit uncharacteristic.

It's outside of his scum game and his town game.

a) Which way has he gone, more townie or more scummie?
b) Which is it closer to?

Y'know, I'm not familiar with Ceej's scumgame, but what is provoking me is that he is so much more towny here than in the two games I played with him where he flipped green. I said this before, but I want to reiterate: I voted for CJ because I wanted to put pressure on him. I'm not leaning scum on him because of his uncharacteristic behavior-- I just thought it was worth noting and perhaps looking into further. For all I know, Ceej is town and (despite my vote) I'm leaning more town on him than scum.

I find it easier to "pretend scumhunt" when I'm scum than to actually scumhunt when I'm town. Basically, when I'm town, I'm more apt to second guess my own assessments, and I'm more reserved with them. It makes me more apt to be scumread. When I'm scum, I just go right into "scumhunting"... accusing people of being shady or noncommital, criticizing behavior that seems out of sorts... and (in those cases) I don't give a shit if I'm wrong because

I know I'm wrong!

As a townie, I have a much more delicate hand, and I have seen this sort of deliberative stance in Ceej in the games I've played with him. But it's absent here. That's not a good reason to scumread him, and I

don't

scumread him, but it's worth noting that his playstyle gives me pause.

[vulcan logician]

I get that enigma's flip will generate some info for town, but his ISO feels pretty town to me.

[vulcan logician]

i guess i'm jsut confused why you're voting based on pressuring your townread instead of like using your vote to do like ... something useful from your pov given that you don't seem to have lost the townread

this cj mini-wagon is kinda icky tbh

Yeah, that's just the thing. On d1, my "townread" might very well be scum. One of the things I hate about d1 is how fucking confident people are in

information they don't have.

I THINK Ceej might be town, but I'm not very SURE of it. Pressuring him might produce information that makes me more certain one way or another.

You are right that the mini wagon is icky, not to mention a lost cause.

UNVOTE:

Since I'm not feeling the enigma wagon, I'll decide on a different vote after I'm finished with my ISOs.

[vulcan logician]

Town lean
...
Skygazer - I feel scum would not be this stubborn and push so hard on my wagon (a mislynch btw)

I disagree with the reasoning that scum wouldn't push hard on a wagon simply because it's a mislynch. Is that the only reason you lean town on Skygazer?

[vulcan logician]

Okay, I have half of everyone ISO'd with handwritten notes. I'm going to separate my ISO reads of everyone into two posts to avoid the text wall. Also, please note that a few people have a plain old "null" without much elaboration. That's because, in these cases, there isn't much to elaborate on. A town or scum lean (imo) is more deserving of an explanation than an idk. Anyway, half of the ISOs I said I'd do two days ago are done, and after a short break, I should have the rest done tonight.

[vulcan logician]

I'm back after a prod and fully caught up. At this point, I am town reading ofrhz and okapoka on tone.

Ruru's claim has me townslotting her for the moment. It makes sense for meta reasons.

Skygazer: nullish to town. @skygazer, my "peppered in" paranoia of Ceej is warranted. He really isn't usually this townie as town. I have my eye on him, but, of course, that's a shit reason to sumread him.

No scumleans so far, sorry.

What posts led you to town-toneread me?

It was more of a general vibe I was getting from you as I caught up in the thread... say from the last 3-4 pages before I made that post. I'll pay more attention to that as I do my ISO of you (which I haven't got to yet).

[vulcan logician]

vulcan's ISO READS (pt.1)

AP (null)

Ausuka (slight scumread): mainly for jumping at my wagon with frail reasoning. When I saw that I provoked suspicion, I sort of dangled my self out there as low-hanging fruit. And she seemed to jump at the opportunity. This isn't really much of a case, and she's otherwise null, hence the

slight

scumread.

Brass/Cardi (scummy vibe): I'm suspicious of Brass's general demeanor. He begins with objective analysis of the draft which is a perfect ploy to seem towny whilst simultaneously generating wifom. He cast two "prod" votes... that is kinda LAMISTy behavior. Other than that, he hasn't produced much of substance. In addition, his replacement has been rather quiet.

BuJabish (null): But not plain old "null." Null by way of balanced out town and scum vibes. Some paranoia in there too: for instance, his saying that if Ruru is scum, her performance merits a win for team red seems like a (possible) attempt to pretend he has less information than he does/distance himself from his scummy alignment.

Ceej (somewhat towny): Lot's of towny vibes from him and, aside from the aforementioned paranoiac meta-suspicions, he is in nulltown territory.

Invis (null)

(the rest in a little bit. Gonna take a short break.)

[vulcan logician]

So far, I gotta say that Ceej is the towniest I've ever seen him. I lean town on him, but my inner paranoiac wonders if scum!ceej is just not super towny. (I've never played with Ceej as scum.) I know that I tend to come off as more towny when I roll scum... perhaps because, in those cases, I actually take time to do things with the intent to come off as towny.

Can I ask you somethink, when did you notice that thing about sounding towny as scum

Probably after like two scum games where everyone townread me, with two town games in between where people thought I was scummy af.

Can I ask YOU somethink?

How come each post you make in rapid succession makes me love you more?

[vulcan logician]

I would lynch Cardi B, if she ever came across as scum (which she hasn't so far).

[vulcan logician]

Yo! Yo!

My power got shut off near EoD guys... (because in RL I'm even more delinquent and irresponsible than in this game). So, sorry about my absence there.

Happy scumday, Ausuka!

p-edit: okie dokie on the read list

[vulcan logician]

-Can someone help me understand what ruru's strategy was? I don't get the town fakeclaim. A townie who knows she's lying will counterclaim and ruru likely gets lynched. And scum who know she's lying will NK her. And I think that's what happened. It's the most likely explanation in my mind.
So I feel like I'm missing something obvious or it's a pointless gambit??

I don't think I like Ruru's strategy, which (as far as I can see) hinged on her fakeclaim being believed. That is problematic for the reasons you listed. In addition, Ruru selected a very townie role, that was apt to be chosen by those halfway down the draft or lower, thus condemning all of them to vanilla-ness. PGO would have actually been a good pick, or even vig... if anything just to prevent scum from getting the role. To pick a role so useful to a townie who

wasn't

going to be a prime n1 target was a bad move IMO.

[vulcan logician]

I don't think we can say that scum wouldn't have hopped on to Invisibility's wagon. As Vizzy's participation was minimal, the best "bang for the Vizzy buck" as it were would have been to jump onto the Invisibility wagon... basically using Invisibility as cannon fodder to dissociate themselves from the scum alignment.

Another possibility is that Enigma is mafia, and it wouldn't have mattered which wagon they jumped on. (I lean town on Enigma, so I think this second option is unlikely, but it's still worth mentioning.)

[vulcan logician]

-Can someone help me understand what ruru's strategy was? I don't get the town fakeclaim. A townie who knows she's lying will counterclaim and ruru likely gets lynched. And scum who know she's lying will NK her. And I think that's what happened. It's the most likely explanation in my mind.
So I feel like I'm missing something obvious or it's a pointless gambit??

I don't think I like Ruru's strategy, which (as far as I can see) hinged on her fakeclaim being believed. That is problematic for the reasons you listed. In addition, Ruru selected a very townie role, that was apt to be chosen by those halfway down the draft or lower, thus condemning all of them to vanilla-ness. PGO would have actually been a good pick, or even vig... if anything just to prevent scum from getting the role. To pick a role so useful to a townie who

wasn't

going to be a prime n1 target was a bad move IMO.

Congrats, you have different views of how to play town PRs, well done. Ruru is dead, their alignment is known, let's move on. Contribute to how we can move the gamestate forward rather than speculating about why a town player did a thing...they did, deal with it.

Not really trying to dwell. BuJaber asked if there was any other strategy that might have been at work. The short answer would have been "no."

[vulcan logician]

how about we just do some good ol fashioned scumhunting without the setup spec

pretty sure ausuka is in this game more than invis is, brass.

Invisibility is in this game?

VOTE: Invisibility

I'd rather have the pressure vote on someone I forgot was in the game than Ausuka who I at least remembered.

this kind of reads as awkward distancing

id hope that people would talk more when they are mentioned

also i don't see how this has anything to do with scumhunting

I'm scumhunting, I'm just not confident enough in any of my reads to make cases.

Plus, I find its very hard to form a read on someone if they are not participating in the game.

That's just me, though, I might be crazy to want to base my reads on like content.

I don't like the Enigma wagon, Enigma's ISO has some good questions, and good thoughts. That's a town ISO as far as I can tell.

Vulcan Logician promised more content in 240 and never followed up, I'd like to know why. I know the dude only has 3 posts, but they include him claiming he's a fairly active player. I will allow him more posts before making an actual read, but it makes me uneasy.

Invisibility is scum.

BuJaber, I'm leaning scum on.

I'll find the last scum tomorrow or something, going to the beach now.

first brass has no strong scumreads to explain away his pressure voting inactives, yet 30 posts later he conjures up a confident scumread on invis. where did this newfound confidence come from?

VOTE: invisibility if theres more to get from this lil dude I wanna see it. Joinin my mans okapoka ArrArrArr.

okay seems like cardi was basically on the invis wagon for pressure, which by itself is fine

I mean wasting a town investigator on him for a night.

We flip him because he is unreadable

All Im sayins is

0 other votes on invisibility oka be like "this bitch off the table"

3 other votes oka be like "oawww less lynch em"

Looks to me like nothin changed his mind! Skitter skitter talked abt why his content bad... I though she made sense (as usual )... okadude didnt even seem to noticed it, you knowwha Im sayin.

I don't like how Cardi throws shade at Oka's vote after the hammer but joined the wagon directly after Oka's vote

I didnt like how it interactit with his own reasons, obvissly I didnt think it was a bad vote in general?

cardi then tries to scumread for his "inconsistency" in joining the invis wagon, when i think it was pretty evident oka was mainly on the wagon for pressure (which incidentally, is also the same reason cardi was on the wagon), i.e. oka was NOT on the invis wagon to "less lynch em"

for reference, oka's vote was in 784

as a bonus:

currently townleaning brassherald and Sando

i could totally see invis doing a "townlean your scumpartner and another townie" here

as another bonus, if we lynch cardi, i don't have to read her posts

VOTE: cardi

I like the reasoning here, ofrhz. Although you have the chance of being incorrect in your speculation, what you've said certainly is an eyebrow-raiser. I'll hop on the Cardi wagon.

VOTE: Cardi

I wanna hear from Ceej, too. I still have some uncomfortable gut feelings about him.

[vulcan logician]

I didn't like skygazer's EoD commentary (starting page 33 up to the end... esp posts 826 & 827). It feels a bit contrived, along with some other things she has said this day cycle. It could be myopia or the result of reading posts with a tad too much scrutiny... but in case anyone else got the same feelings, I thought I'd mention it. Regardless, I don't think she's a good lynch choice for today, because if she's town, she'll be high on scum's kill list, and we don't want to do their job for them. The same reasoning has me wanting to lynch someone other than OkaPoka.

[vulcan logician]

It's gut, ceej, and so I admit my tea leafy assessment of you comes with limitations peculiar to that type of read. I'm not ready to lynch you or anything, and my mind is very open to the possibility of you being town. Don't think to much of my statements regarding you. They don't amount to much.

What are your reads?

[vulcan logician]

im getting the impression that we as a town have no direction to go

I sort of agree w/ you, Oka. Maybe we should get some wagons going to generate some information for this and the next day cycle. Nailing scum on D1 bought us some time and widened our margin for error, so I don't think it's a terrible way to proceed.

[vulcan logician]

Another possibility is that Enigma is mafia, and it wouldn't have mattered which wagon they jumped on. (I lean town on Enigma, so I think this second option is unlikely, but it's still worth mentioning.)

But it did. Unless you think Enigma is also a GOON. I think this is the key to solving the case

IF

Enigma is scum here. You would sacrifice your pawn to save the queen every single time it gets offered to you.

He's a bit far down on the list to assume he DOES have a PR.

[vulcan logician]

ROTFL. Now I

demand

to be referred to as "the airhead" or something similar for the rest of the game.
My first impression when I saw the avi was "Why is the already lynched guy still posting"

I SWEAR IT'S TRUE! An I don't even know why. I mean, the avatars of the two aren't even similar!!

This post rubs me the wrong way. You had no way of knowing his alignment so why would you be surprised that he's posting post-hammer? Townies post after the hammer all the time to release information that they hitherto were keeping close to the chest.

[vulcan logician]

Dude, the post I'm quoting has been done TODAY (i.e. after both the Invis and the ruru flips)

Oops. I misunderstood you.

[vulcan logician]

don't drink and vc, kids

You posted it at 8am your time...

It's noon somewhere.

Any reasoning on the orfhz vote, skygazer, or is it the same stuff you had problems with yesterday? I wouldn't be opposed to hopping on the wagon, though orfhz isn't one of my top scum leans...

Nobody game for the Cardi wagon?

[vulcan logician]

@ Okapoka

Well, Cardi is a bit unreadable, but Brassherald was a tad shady. Plus I believe that there was at least one scum on the Vizzy wagon. Remember, I'm all about making wagons to generate info this day cycle, and I said as much. I see where you're coming from waiting for her to check in, but I hardly see how my wagon on her is sus.

p-edit: SRing maybe Bujaber or Sando... a bit unable to find a definite scum read though.

[vulcan logician]

I'm doubling down on Cardi out of OMGUS now.

[vulcan logician]

LOL. I saw Sando's post in preview and thought it was Cardi because of the verbiage used.

[vulcan logician]

If you think I'm scummy, hop on my wagon, Sando. OkaPoka's prolly feeling lonely being the only person voting me.

[vulcan logician]

I've never played with a neighborizer before. Maybe it would have been best not to claim, but really no big deal that you did. I think we can make pretty good use of it regardless. Besides, being so high in the draft makes you a pretty big target, so maybe it's best that you claimed.

[vulcan logician]

UNVOTE:

I think I'll hop on the skitter wagon. It seems like as good a home as any for my vote rn.

VOTE: skitter

[vulcan logician]

@skitter

Not really scum reading anyone atm or I'd say so. Nor am I convinced you are scum or anything. Trust me. If I thought someone was scum, I'd be pushing them... but I'm a little unsure right now.

Like I said before, I think that we need to start wagons to generate information... (basically a re-run of Day 1).... We can afford to do this because we hit scum on D1 which bought us a little time. Plus the scum we hit was a lurker, so we can't glean so much from interactions etc. We can collect this sort of info (interactions, voting etc.) by wagoning ppl today. And I don't mind being one of the wagons. So, if folks think that I'm scum, slap a vote on me!

***

ALSO:

How does the neighbor thing work? From what I gathered in the wiki, if the neighborizer targets scum, they die. Doesn't that confirm Ausuka as town? It seems that's not the case going by what you guys are posting.

[vulcan logician]

How does the neighbor thing work? From what I gathered in the wiki, if the neighborizer targets scum, they die. Doesn't that confirm Ausuka as town? It seems that's not the case going by what you guys are posting.

I dunno what you read on the wiki. To me a Neighborizer will only die of targetting scum if they have a Weak modifier attached to their role.

Yeah, I misread the wiki when it was discussing a variation of the role. That really doesn't help us as much as I was thinking. Either Ausuka or Sky could be scum (Sky possibly taking the role to seem towny... hence her being so obvious that Oka figured it out). Though I suppose this development pretty much eliminates the possibility of them being a team. That's something.

[vulcan logician]

What are you trying to say there, Ceej?

[vulcan logician]

id rather vote vulcan as well but vulcan wagon seems unlikely to form with much steam vs this which is somewhat established

Very true. I don't think you guys will be able to lynch me without enlisting help from scum, which is one reason I'm not resistant to a wagon forming against me.

***

@sky: You may think I'm sheeping you guys, but I'm not. In fact, I have a plan boiling to push against you D3 if we end up mislynching today. One of the things that makes me suspicious of you is your desire to let your PR slip. Then again, I'm a bit unsure about you, and if you're town, I appreciate your coordination efforts with Ausuka. In any case, you're a bad D2 lynch.

I'm not super enthusiastic about lynching skittles, either. But, like me, if he flips green, we will almost certainly have one (if not both) scum on his wagon probably. Bujaber was pinging me earlier in the day cycle, so maybe it's worth looking at his slot as well.

[vulcan logician]

It'd sure be nice if we could get some more folks voting. Maybe get a wagon going to compete with skitter's wagon.

I mean, you could hop on my wagon... I got folks accusing me a creepily lurking--even though, in my own defense, I'd point out that I've been active this day cycle. Regardless, my wagon is a viable option at this point with all the sus pointed in my direction. Hop on if you think I'm scummy.

Or perhaps wagon somebody else. I'll jump on a ceej wagon, since he's throwing shade at me. (I'm not above OMGUS.) I'll also go for Bujaber/music ... maybe even Sando.

Like I said before, since we got lucky and nailed a lurker, so let's play D2 like a second D1.

[vulcan logician]

Also, I don't like Cardi slot... mainly for the reasons ofrhz laid out in post 889. I was leaving it alone in hopes Cardi would post / be replaced, but the more I think of it, Cardi/Brass is one of my top scum leans. I'm willing to wagon them too.

[vulcan logician]

I'm not the doc.

[vulcan logician]

I am VT.

[vulcan logician]

Oh hi, I'm still alive ... interesting.

Vulcan you aren't supposed to claim yet! Btw, could you pls comment on AP lynch and his (fake) claim?

What's there to say about the AP lynch? (I told you that scum would come stick their votes on my wagon, btw! Which makes ceej and Cardi viable candidates.)

As to his fake claim... it turned out to be a bad move. duh!

Sorry, I thought I was next to claim there, Oops.

[vulcan logician]

vulcan logician (3) ~ Cardi B, ceejayvinoya, AP,

there were actually more votes on him; enigma + ausuka were here too

the way ap hopped on as the wagon grew kinda makes me think he was trying to wagon anyone that looked semi-viable in an attempt to save his own skin. like his vote doesn't really seem like a distancing vote to me; it seems more like 'i want to try to save myself'.

especially if the other scum is actually a rb i don't think he tries to get his more powerful partner lynched when ap is going to be in an ever-shrinking lynchpool that will persist until the vig/pgo was actually found.

Meh. As has been pointed out, the remaining scum is demoted to goon status from lack of ability to use PR. So I don't think that would have factored into AP's motivations at all.

However, I do strongly feel that both scum were on my wagon at some point. Enigma is locktown, so that puts Ausuka, ceej and Cardi in my bottom brackets.

[vulcan logician]

I think Cardi is next to claim, as skitter is waiting for her to go first.

[vulcan logician]

So, I'm doing some rereading of da thread... and I'm starting to think that Ausuka is the scum.

[vulcan logician]

not scumreading invis, definitely not for the oka vote; feel like the unapologetic nature of the vote instead of making up some justification is town-indicative.

i like the wagon situation w/ enigma and oka.

wut

you are really townreading a tone vote this late into day 1?

yeah, i feel like invis is town? it's 2 days into d1.

imo feels like a lame reason to tr but whatever

what made you compelled to voice your position on invis?

Remember all this stuff from D1?

[vulcan logician]

VOTE: Vulcan logician

lol

I'm not saying I'm right and if you or others have things to say in your defense, fine.

But I want to voice my concerns. So vote me all you want.

[vulcan logician]

yeah lynching AP tomorrow if this greens. the hammer is honestly worthy of a lynch regardless of anything else imo.

Then there's this from EOD on D1. In retrospect, it seems a bit manufactured. If she is scum, of course she knew Vizyy was gonna flip red, thus relieving her of following through on her threat to push AP.

[vulcan logician]

Also, Ausuka was a perennial suspect of Oka's. It then makes sense for her to want to NK him. Add on top of that his position in the draft and Oka is top priority for a night kill.

[vulcan logician]

Pretty sure your only concern here is to shade another slot and make it lynchable so that you can win an unwinnable game.

The vig/PGO thing clears me. I townleaned invis d1, yes, that means nothing at this point.

Pedit: uhhh yeah it makes sense if I'm scum? But it also makes complete sense as town and you're not trying to address that.

Pedit2: ok I'm just going to stop now because it's so clear that you're arguing in bad faith

Not trying to throw shade at your slot, Ausuka. I'm just voicing concerns as I read through the thread. If I didn't say it now, I'd have forgotten the posts to quote and the points I wanted to make. My case isn't super strong, I know. I'm really only thinking 70% chance you're scum.

But that's the best I have right now.

And BTW, I'm town. So if you wanna lynch me, go ahead and push. I flip green and you're next. That works for me. The only way that sucks is if we're both town. So you, at the very least, need to come up with a better reply to what I've said then "Vulcan has scum motivations."

But if I'm wrong and you are indeed town, there's nothing wrong with having some issues concerning your slot brought to light.

[vulcan logician]

Tbh vulcan is strongly in my lynch pool and ausuka and I have agreed on that before that weird scumread on ausuka

Yeah, like, bringing a push on somebody out of left field ain't really in my or anyone else's scumgame y'know.

[vulcan logician]

So much AtE it hurts

Fair enough. Fair enough. Like I said, I just wanted to give my thoughts as I had them.

[vulcan logician]

I'm not down for lynching Cardi at all! And (at this point) I'm no longer as willing to be lynched as I was before. Since my thoughts on Ausuka seem to be ill received, I say we lynch Ceej and if he flips green, we wait scum out. I think that (given our advantage) town can power through and snatch a win.

[vulcan logician]

VOTE: ceejayvinoya

[vulcan logician]

VOTE: ceejayvinoya

If you do indeed believe Ausuka is scum, I don't understand why you wouldn't vote them at this point? We have not decided on an immediate Ceejay/Cardi lynch pool yet.

I said I was 70% sure that leaves some percents that I am wrong about Ausuka. We have time, and our margin for error is quite large. Weeding Ceej out seems a more practical course of action at this point.

[vulcan logician]

Wow, Ausuka. You're like... an amazing Chrono Trigger fan. That's awesome.

[vulcan logician]

Well. I guess my scumread of you might be interpreted as some wild gambit by you and Sky, but it isn't. It's just as I said... concerns that came to mind as I was rereading the thread. I think the stuff I reposted deserves a little scrutiny now that we have the benefit of hindsight.

The reason I felt the need to express those thoughts is that if you ARE scum, you are in a position to win... although it would take lots of luck and Disney magic to get you from here to victory. If somebody else is scum, town will have a much easier time catching onto them by LYLO. So I didn't want you to pass so easily under our noses, y'know?

#staywoke

[vulcan logician]

VOTE: ceejayvinoya

If you do indeed believe Ausuka is scum, I don't understand why you wouldn't vote them at this point? We have not decided on an immediate Ceejay/Cardi lynch pool yet.

I said I was 70% sure that leaves some percents that I am wrong about Ausuka. We have time, and our margin for error is quite large. Weeding Ceej out seems a more practical course of action at this point.

I don't want to seem aggressive here, but 70% is an incredible number for a scum reading. If I was 70% sure of someone being scum, I'd very likely push them hard and wouldn't settle for a ~10% read.

Good point. But as I said before. We have time. And I'm patient. Besides, I'm taking other things into account that I wasn't when I expressed my thoughts about Ausuka. Read the last couple pages. You might see what I mean.

[vulcan logician]

For those asking, maybe my 70% on Ausuka was a bit much. What I wanted to do there was voice my concerns while gauging reactions. I'll let it go if you will. lol. I see what you are saying about the AP bus. It does seem unlikely. I just wanted a response to my concerns. Furthermore, such stirring of the pot is not always negative, even when suspicions are misapplied. When I did it, I was bored, and I also felt the game was stagnating. So I shook things up.

But things have changed. I'm interested in Cardi's saying that if she's lying about me being VT, she knows I'm town. That happened right in the middle of the stuff I was saying earlier. And it made me think twice about my risky assertions.

And it got me thinking. I know I'm town, so her pseudoclaim seems plausible to me. It also means that if she is NKed, I will be towncleared which means I will thereafter be an asset to town (at the very least to eat a NK instead of a PR). Another reason I want to believe she is a cop is that, she was sussing on me hard D2, thus her investigating me makes sense. And why suggest me as an innocent if she's a VT? That's a bit risky because VT Cardi doesn't really know if I'm scum or not. All this makes me think there might be something to what Cardi says.

There are alternate explanations for Cardi's pseudoclaim 1) She's really a VT and trying to deflect a NK from a real PR -OR- 2) She's scum. I was about to get lynched, and my flipping green would help her fakeclaim a cop role. We can't count either of those out, I suppose.

So with all that on the table, I want to (for the moment) redact my suspicions that I cast at Ausuka and recommend a plan where we go after Ceej or someone else for the time being. I think Ceej is a safe bet so I voted him.

[vulcan logician]

None of the cop reads/claims/targets make sense at all from rational town play.

Ofc, maybe Cardi is just an irrational gal, but I can we get her to L-1 and make her get her story straight

Maybe that's a good project for the next day cycle. I say we hammer ceej and then see where we stand after night.

[vulcan logician]

I don't think 1435 is all that damning, personally. But let's see what ceej has to say about it.

The vr is my main reason for settling on CJ, and it's quite possible that he flips green. Either way, I feel like we should weed him out now. Otherwise his presence will confuse the proceeding should this game make it to LYLO.

[vulcan logician]

I think we've still got this, a {Vulcan, Cardi} lynch pool is most likely scum. And now we know scum doesn't have a roleblocker either.

I disagree. Cardi and I are poor choices for today. Let's wait for Cardi to check in and see what she has to say though.

[vulcan logician]

Sorry, been busy guys... will post soon. Don't like Cardi any more, but let me catch up and maybe I'll have something useful to say.

[vulcan logician]

I'm town, though. From my POV, it seems like Cardi is the next best candidate. I think her saying all that stuff yesterday was simply to buy her some time.

Also, as scummy as it might make me seem, I would advise against ruling out Ausuka. Remember, she avoided the AP wagon. I might throw together a case against her. Just for fun

As for me, go ahead and lynch me. I don't think my lynch would be horrible for town, even though you're looking at a green flip. I seem to be the target of some tunneling from multiple people. It might be best to weed me out... just as I recommended with ceej. Plus I'm a VT... I won't be a target for a NK... town could certainly pick a worse mislynch than me.

I think cardi is a better lynch for today. But if it's me... oh well...

[vulcan logician]

Go ahead and hammer, somebody. I think the best thing for the gamestate right now is for town to wake up. (At this point, people are operating too heavily on assumptions.)

So, hammer, get all the info the night cycle provides, and start the next day cycle fresh.

Also, I think there is scum on my wagon.... peace....

[vulcan logician]

Go ahead and hammer, somebody. I think the best thing for the gamestate right now is for town to wake up.

(At this point, people are operating too heavily on assumptions.)

So, hammer, get all the info the night cycle provides, and start the next day cycle fresh.

Also, I think there is scum on my wagon.... peace....

i don't think this comes from scum

Town literally wakes up and posts in-depth discussion...Vulcan replies with "hopefully my lynch prompts town to wake up".

Wake up to what?

It was not a comment regarding the depth of town's conversation. It was more along the lines of what Ausuka said above. Regardless of my flipping green, town will be given a valuable piece to the puzzle that will help them isolate the scum in the next day cycle. In short, I'm the mislynch that help's town's PoE the most. With me around, scum will be better able to WIFOM themselves to victory.

[vulcan logician]

I think scum is in {Cardi, Asuka}.

The reason I suspect Cardi is her hypoclaim. The reasoning she gave for it sucks. Scum in her position would employ such a tactic to "buy themselves one more day." Town in her position would know that such a tactic is too high risk, low reward to be worth trying. You may doubt what I'm saying here, but you'll doubt it a lot less if you had the information I have. Namely that I'm town. So go ahead and get that information.

If I was the one picking lynches, after Cardi, I would go Ausuka. Her posts regarding Vizzy were suspicious, like she was tiptoeing. It just seems manufactured. Also her "bussing" of AP was mostly a verbal phenomenon. The VR tells a different story. But people don't seem open to that possibility right now. Maybe they will see things differently once they obtain more information.

***

People shouldn't be afraid to mislynch at this point. In fact, I wouldn't be pushing for my own mislynch if I didn't think it was good for town. Think of it this way. I think scum is in {cardi, Ausuka}. I see no other course for opening town's eyes to this possibility other than removing myself from consideration. And if I'm wrong about them, I'm not going to be much help to town either. Unless new information comes to light, the path I'd choose would be lynching them.

It's not really a MIS- lynch if it helps the gamestate. So, I'm at L-1. Even if you think I'm town, go ahead and hammer. It'll help town's PoE and keep the game from stagnating.