Mini Normal 2023 - Game Over

[Golden Robster]

VOTE: gamr

first one to vote is probably scum

[Golden Robster]

Would anyone else like to read the narrative here and tell me that’s not what happened?

loaded question fallacy

pretty sure you just had an unjustified assumption

[Golden Robster]

VOTE: James Brafin

[Golden Robster]

oh hey GR nice to see you again

VOTE: Gustavo[/vote[

hi dude

[Golden Robster]

i dont understand this post

what part do you not understand

[Golden Robster]

a loaded question contains an unjustified assumption (duck thinks gustavo omgus'd) (unjustified because no evidence and we can't read minds) (assumption in the question because of the phrasing)

and tell me that’s not what happened?

comprende?

[Golden Robster]

VOTE: James Brafin

VOTE: Golden Robster

James forcefully trying to paint a specific picture here and I don't think it has anything to do with Biases

VOTE: James

I don't think James is scummy just a try hard trying to break rvs. Between GR and Unreal, Unreals vote seems more opportunistic.

why are you chainsawing

let the man speak for himself

[Golden Robster]

so why did you vote GR over me.

also this

[Golden Robster]

chainsawing in the broader sense is just defending another player by attacking the attacker

probably a null tell if anything right now

[Golden Robster]

if garmr was "chainsawing" whatever that means, why wouldnt he attack me, the leader of the james wagon?

why are you the leader of the james wagon?

[Golden Robster]

i do agree with garmr that chainsawing is a meaningless buzzword tho

if it was a meaningless buzzword then people wouldn't use it

people do use it so I guess you're wrong

[Golden Robster]

Please stop with the buzzwords kthanks

people get triggered when I say chainsaw

I love it

[Golden Robster]

chainsaw chainsaw chainsaw

does that make you feel better now?

[Golden Robster]

o hi espeonage

[Golden Robster]

Also if I get flipped today and my role pm flips town which points on gus do you think have credit.

pretty jumpy no?

[Golden Robster]

VOTE: gamr

first one to vote is probably scum

???

why you throwing shade on my rvs vote?

[Golden Robster]

Ok you definitely know better than that. Robster and Gamma are already scum, which is actually amazing for this early.

what?

talk to me about why?

[Golden Robster]

99% sure it was an rvs vote and not serious; if I followed the logic that scum voted first in every game then I wouldn't get far

pretty sure I have to care about your reads in general and why you think gamma is scummy is a part of that

[Golden Robster]

preliminary reads

leaning town: unreal seal, gamma, bujaber
kind of town:
null: gustavo, krazy
kind of scum: gamr, james
leaning scum: french, popopopopo

these reads are probably bad but it's still a decent indicator of where I am

is popopopopopo a new player on this site or an alt?

[Golden Robster]

what's you're opinion on people trying to use it as a excuse to scum read me?

it's fine for people to use it as reasoning

just have to sort out who has good vs. bad intentions

[Golden Robster]

VOTE: James brafin

[Golden Robster]

gamr reaction is pretty genuine

not sure why he claimed but probably town if anything

[Golden Robster]

also tactical replace out isn't allowed so I'm like 99% sure this is genuine town frustration

[Golden Robster]

french or james

any one of these could be oppurtunistic scum just on a light skim from their iso

[Golden Robster]

everybody voting gamr right now, do you still scumread him after his replace out?

[Golden Robster]

his reaction is pretty genuine so I believe him and I'm just going to place him in lock town for day one

secondly, I think I'm going to start going through the wagon and see who had bad intentions i.e oppurtunism

will probably case anybody who I think has a reasonable chance of being scum

[Golden Robster]

dude is pretty thin skinned tho

that's personality and nai if anything

[Golden Robster]

I mean

are you willing to lynch this and take the consequences if it flips town?

zzzz

[Golden Robster]

you can remember that it's fine

I'm talking about if unrealseal is town and then lynches town

it would look bad for unrealseal and then scum could easily use that as an excuse to lynch him

[Golden Robster]

I want a james wagon

I think it's scum and I'll whip up a solid case in the next hour or so

[Golden Robster]

I mean I don't mind tunnelling if I think it's scum

[Golden Robster]

You’ve been hard tunneling me all phase.

also kind of a misrep; I don't think you know what tunnelling is

[Golden Robster]

and kind of jumpy as well thinking about it

[Golden Robster]

This looks like it could be informed and a setup.

loooooooooooool

[Golden Robster]

Actually, my position on GR depends on Garmr’s flip. If he flips scum, GR is prob bad town. If he flips town tho, GR is most likely scum. But I don’t see a Garmr/GR world making sense.

Urgh, this seems kinda like a setup to me

This looks like it could be informed and a setup.

loooooooooooool

im actually crying

[Golden Robster]

hey catching up

[Golden Robster]

okay I think I've sorted out my reads into something good

gamr - lock town
locke - kind of mafia
hiraki - potential mafia
GE - null - leaning town
Gustavo - semi to leaning town
JB - undecided
Krazy - probably mafia
French - probably mafia
popopopopo - probably mafia
US - leaning town
Bujaber - surface town to leaning town
Music - null

solid town reads

: gamr, US, gustavo

less solid but still good town reads

: bujaber, GE

undecided/null

: JB, music

kind of mafia

: locke

leaning mafia

: hiraki

probably scum

: krazy, french, popopopo

[Golden Robster]

VOTE: Krazy

i think this is a good place to put pressure

slot seems kind of noncholant right now with a decent amount of content

[Golden Robster]

if anybody wants my reasoning you can ask me

[Golden Robster]

I think he's okay right now; nothing really stands out that pings me from his ISO and he sheeped me on james earlier

I could see him as potential scum but for now I have him as town

[Golden Robster]

Rob thinks James is scummy and then he switches to Krazy for pressure, but why? Voting james is good pressure. It's important to sort the elephant in the room (Garmr v James), before trying to 'pressure vote' someone else imo.

undecided/null: JB, music

[Golden Robster]

There are always potential consequences for lynching someone, we can never be 100% sure the person we are lynching is scum so I don't understand why this post was even needed?

I mean we can be 100% sure so ur wrong there e.g. cop guilty

secondly, I felt this post was needed since I don't scumread gamr right now and don't understand the wagon on him

[Golden Robster]

Rob how do you have a read on hiraki already?

by reading his content and making a decision based on a combination of gut, his content and general tone?

[Golden Robster]

this gamr wagon is actually awful and I don't mind hard-defending it

[Golden Robster]

People I like for town

- bujaber. I had a couple of others but they’ve lost their standings.

Garmr

- mainly his trying to stop discussion, then trying to shut me down when I tried to try info from him. Additionally his hypocritical thought process over the use of chainsaw. He had issues with people using it but

he’s used it as town

.

VOTE: garmr

explain your contradictory vote

[Golden Robster]

Garmr - mainly his trying to stop discussion, then trying to shut me down when I tried to try info from him. Additionally his hypocritical thought process over the use of chainsaw. He had issues with people using it but he’s used it as town.

why did gamr lose his standing with you?

[Golden Robster]

like if anything his replace out should be a good indicator about his genuine frustration

stop taking his content literally and look beyond that?

[Golden Robster]

also scum would never ever noncholantly and blatantly hard-defend their buddy in the first couple of pages

secondly, chainsaw is null tell since we don't have flip

feel like you're just pissed at him for scumreading you no?

[Golden Robster]

yeah can't tell if ur playing bad or just scum

VOTE: Gustavo

think my read on gustavo went from 100 to 0

[Golden Robster]

gamr wagon is actually awful and I don't mind hard-defending it

[Golden Robster]

no it's not my fault that I have trouble agreeing with your read on gamr ergo we disagree

like if you don't get a sense of genuine town frustration from his posts then you're either ignoring it on purpose or just playing bad

[Golden Robster]

also people who said that gamr didn't have to claim is bullshit

forgot that he was at L-1 and close to being lynched

[Golden Robster]

It is your fault when you just falsely accused me of changing my stance on garmr and I never did.

Frustration can be faked. He didn’t officially request a replacement in the game thread sounless the mod wants to confirm garmr sent him a PM, the replacement request was for show as far as I’m concerned.

I honestly don’t care what people think about my push on garmr, I’m not changing my vote

like if you're not going to accept that his frustration is genuine then we're going to be at odds all day 1

[Golden Robster]

Gustavo's clearly states in the bolded that Garmr is a scumread and he never stated who lost standing with him but its pretty obviously not Garmr he's talking about. Why did you purposefully only quote a small part of the post so the parts that contradicted your reasoning for your vote weren't shown?

I misread it but that doesn't take away from my point

also quoting small parts of posts is how I play

my point being is that gustavo is wrong on gamr and him tunnelling gamr isn't going to help

[Golden Robster]

He claimed at l-2 and no he didn’t need to claim.

it doesn't matter

these forums have a meta of claiming when nearly being lynched so it's fine in my eyes

also he was frustrated so that's another reason he might have claimed

[Golden Robster]

my point being gamr is town

lmao

[Golden Robster]

my fucking god this is why we need constant VC's

[Golden Robster]

not paying attention let me count

[Golden Robster]

People not paying attention is unhelpful

players with bad reads are unhelpful

[Golden Robster]

not playing cat and mouse with you

want more votes on this slot asap

[Golden Robster]

yeah ik I don't really care about your opinion that much

if anything hard tunnelling you till you're roped

[Golden Robster]

Genuine frustration can come from town and scum alike

true but the same thing could be said for about anything e.g. people have different reads of content

if anything, I'm more inclined to townread him for his frustration since it speaks to me like it comes from genuine town and not someone who is survilastic or oppurtunistic

[Golden Robster]

no they can't because gamr isn't scum

why are you trying to do associations when we haven't had flip

[Golden Robster]

Why are you answering a question meant for somebody else?

is that illegal?

[Golden Robster]

What made you change your mind on James and I'm curious what the case you said you were going to whip up would have included

got side-tracked and less sure about him being scum

I have him as undecided right now just because I think some of what he's said have been reasonable

[Golden Robster]

hmm I'll think about gustavo

I think I let my emotions get the better of me right there and then so I'll do a quick ISO and do a quick tally of what posts feel like it comes from town and scum and then make a decision

the main thing I hate is his read of gamr (which I've reinforced and stated multiple times) and similarly scumread most of the gamr wagon for (except unrealseal)

[Golden Robster]

because you're hard tunnelling one of my locktown reads

[Golden Robster]

how have I been a hypocrite here?

this gamr wagon is actually awful and I don't mind hard-defending it

[Golden Robster]

and I'm going to defend the players that I townread viciously

am I going to sit around and flail my arms around while you tunnel my tr?

[Golden Robster]

Unless you are admitting your tunneling on James was unhelpful

I didn't really tunnel james

I pushed him; I don't have confirmation bias nor am I unopposed to re-evaluating my reads

[Golden Robster]

you accuse me of tunnelling

tunnelling is indirectly linked to confirmation bias depending on what your definition of tunneling is

[Golden Robster]

like if you're going to play innocent maiden here and just call me a hypocrite all day then we can just stop our conversation because it probably isn't useful

[Golden Robster]

What do you call it when a player says he’s allowed to do one thing but scum reads somebody else for doing it?

If it’s not hypocrite, put a label on on it for me and I’ll use it.

To me that’s hypocrite.

scumreading you for pushing and tunnelling my lock townread

[Golden Robster]

You didn’t deny tunneling originally, you did follow it up afterwards accusing James of misrepping you.

Regardless if you think you were or weren’t tunneling the take away is you are fine tunneling your scum reads. I’m fine tunneling mine. The fact you disagree with who I’m tunneling doesn’t mean I’m scum or a bad player.

The fact you disagree with who I’m tunneling doesn’t mean I’m scum or a bad player.

how not?

[Golden Robster]

Tunneling isn’t helpful.

I’m fine tunneling mine.

wow you're being so helpful

[Golden Robster]

Garmr (5)

Krazy, James Brafin,

Garmr,

Gustavo

, UnrealSeal

nice i found the scum team

[Golden Robster]

I had a time where I replaced out to give my team a chance, would that be tactical?

yes it would count

[Golden Robster]

congrats I reconsidered the evidence and I had zero change of opinion

not sure if you're trying to throw shade on me by saying "nobody should town read me" but it gives me pleasure that you seem annoyed

[Golden Robster]

Having trouble between deciding to vote gus or james.

Gus is the bigger wagon but at the moment James feels better.

keep your vote on gus

it needs rope

[Golden Robster]

No it’s not. He has evidence that proves his only reason for town reading garmer as town is actually something he’s done as scum. He was sort of suspicious of garmr before the replace out which means he’s doubling down on a Bs agenda. This only makes sense in the 2 scenarios. It doesn’t make sense with him as town at all

yes it is

if you refuse to townread someone just because of your own confirmation bias then it's 100% your fault

that was before his genuine reaction and replace out

what bs agenda?

[Golden Robster]

It doesn’t make sense with him as town at all

well I am so I guess you're wrong again

[Golden Robster]

I think Rob is far too confident on Garmr to be a townie. His push is unreal, his argument with gustavo is irrelevant and distracting, his 180 on garmr is suspicious, what he considers an obvtown reaction is shocking.. there are far more genuine looking reactions across MS, this one is very difficult to townread that confidently. Therefore I find myself agreeing with gustavo that this is whiteknighting or defending a buddy, and tactically whiteknighting would make more sense but we'll sort out which later.

Also the fact that garmr didn't actually put himself onL-1 but claimed he did doesn't seem to change his mind which wouldn't be an issue but he is also ignoring my question about that but answering every single point gustavo makes? Suspicous

Why do you think I'm whiteknighting when you think gamr is suspicious?

Isn't that hypocritical reasoning at best?

[Golden Robster]

nice try deflecting though

gustavo wagon is still going through

[Golden Robster]

Ok, can I ask why you think I'm "potential mafia" for that combination? Can't just throw a pitch into left field and not expect to get questions.

mostly gut so it's not really substantial

[Golden Robster]

Why do you think people will vote with you when you're pissfighting with him?

didn't you just vote him

also pissfight has zero connection with his allignment

[Golden Robster]

Why do you think I'm whiteknighting when you think gamr is suspicious?

Isn't that hypocritical reasoning at best?

like if you think I'm whiteknighting why do you then go on to say that gamr is suspicious

isn't that contradictory because WK implies that the player that's being defended is town

[Golden Robster]

It is laughable that you think gustavo is the scummiest person this day phase when we have all these other people doing far scummier things. I literally have no solid townreads yet with a gamestate like this and that is why it is doubly surprising to me that you can be townreading anyone this confidently let alone garmr.

if anything my gut speaks more to me than my brain

it's like fine if you scumread me but that doesn't change the fact that I'm town and I truly believe gamr is town

[Golden Robster]

no what I am saying is that you are scummy. You can't seriously be expecting people to believe you are townie like this. There is no healthy skepticism and any arguments presented that should make you think twice about garmr are not letting you budge even a little. It's indicative of someone with information.

you still haven't refuted my point

[Golden Robster]

I have no reason to deflect the wagon.. gustavo probably should learn to adjust his towngame a little because he seems like someone who is always scumread all the time... which is just a shitty town to play with honestly. Also if I'm wrong I'd rather know now.. but I don't think so.

well you are

if anything you're voting the player that's spear-heading his wagon

that kind of sounds like deflecting or chainsaw if anything (not going to say chainsaw because players will get triggered)

[Golden Robster]

Now what I said was 'tactically more likely' which means from a scum pov it is better for you to be whiteknighting than to be defending a buddy like that. But since WIFOM is a thing we can't totally be sure. Either way you definitely should be lynched before garmr (which could just as well be your strategy if say you are a goon and garmr is a scum PR). Once we lynch you we will have more to go on.

this doesn't answer my question about you contradicting your point earlier

also saying I should be lynched before gamr isn't convincing

case me properly instead of doing pre-flip associations and trying to do a setup

[Golden Robster]

Either way you definitely should be lynched before garmr (which could just as well be your strategy if say you are a goon and garmr is a scum PR).

contrived example with zero evidence

try harder

[Golden Robster]

And holy shit I am so sorry ... I've been reading Robster (Rob) and assuming you're a he.

it's fine

[Golden Robster]

think I'll remove the pronoun so people can't tell

[Golden Robster]

Ok this is just getting ridiculous, besides from Gustavo disagreeing with your townread of Garmr and voting Garmr because he thinks he's scum, why do you scumread Gus? Because what you've got so far is just "DON'T DISAGREE WITH ME!!!!"

why is it getting ridiculous?

[Golden Robster]

I honestly have never seen someone with more of a confirmation bias than your own GR, so I find this exchange simultaneously exhausting to read and hilarious at the same time

confirmation bias is a fallacy when someone becomes convinced by their own arguments

where am I being fallacious?

[Golden Robster]

This is just hypocritical coming from you

no it isn't

you can't read; contriving an example stating that I'm a goon and gamr is scum PR

Either way you definitely should be lynched before garmr (which could just as well be your strategy if say you are a goon and garmr is a scum PR).

contrived because associations, assuming our roles and then going onto say that I'm chainsawing

[Golden Robster]

Another excellent point. And I’m pretty sure he’s accused me of having the bias when my read came based off his play which is called scum hunting.

scum can scumhunt as well

it's called being fake

[Golden Robster]

actually just

replace me out

cba argueing with players and it's draining

[Golden Robster]

sorry dunn, caused you some trouble

[Golden Robster]

Scum literally can’t Scumhunt so you are wrong. Scumhunt literally means hunting for scum. Scum know who scum are.

yes they can

it's called pretending to scumhunt; do you think you can read minds and read true scumhunting correctly everytime?

obviously not

[Golden Robster]

Another tactical replace. When I flip town your slot is still cursed. If you didn’t want to argue maybe you should have not hard defended somebody with literally no reason and tunnel on somebody because they “disagreed” with your opinion. You should have considered the new evidence that the person you are hard defending has tactically replaced out multiple times.

another stringent player that is too stubborn to change reads

also calling every replace out to be tactical is offensive and I'm not impressed

[Golden Robster]

I actually don't mind arguing with players who have misguided reads and defending players that I think are town so you don't need to act apologetic.

[Golden Robster]

okay I'm done bye bye