Mini Normal 2023 - Game Over

[James Brafin]

VOTE: Gustavo

[James Brafin]

Why the OMGUS core, Gustavo?

[James Brafin]

Not yet. Maybe soon, we’ll see. As a rule I like my RVS to be short and sweet.

[James Brafin]

I meant “for,” not core. That’s a typo.

[James Brafin]

Also:

OMGUS stands for "Oh My God, You Suck (for voting for me)!". it is sometimes used as a shorthand to indicate that you are voting for someone primarily because they voted for you. It is a behavior often associated with inexperienced players.
It can be used as an "excuse" for a Random Vote near the beginning of the game, or as a retaliation when someone is close to being lynched, as a vent against the frustration (even if the player being voted for has no reasonable chance of being Lynched).
Occasionally a Scum player will use it to cover a strategic vote, feigning outrage to get someone else closer to a lynch.

So yes, that was a OMGUS vote. I find your denial disturbing.

[James Brafin]

vote:james

mafia caught on the first page i like it

lets lynch this guy im FEELING it

That’s a lot of confidence there, po. And quite frankly, it seems to me that there is no reason for your vote other than RVS and banter. Is that the case or is this a serious vote?

[James Brafin]

Would anyone else like to read the narrative here and tell me that’s not what happened?

[James Brafin]

Well, I suppose I did my job and got us out of RVS... :p

Would anyone else like to read the narrative here and tell me that’s not what happened?

loaded question fallacy

pretty sure you just had an unjustified assumption

I suppose it is possible I am assuming things. But I naked voted him and he naked voted me, which I read as an OMGUS vote. I never said it was bad or scummy. In fact, for RVS that’s pretty NAI. What I don’t like is his response to me when I start probing, which is a flat “nope, you wrong. Gonna be snarky about it.” Which I don’t see coming from town, unless that’s playstyle?

James forcefully trying to paint a specific picture here and I don't think it has anything to do with Biases

VOTE: James

If I am painting a picture of Gustavo OMGUSing and not being scum, it is not just as likely that you are painting a picture yourself of me being scum for it? Also, that makes very little sense to me. Why am I scum for gently probing and not actually tunneling?

VOTE: James Brafin

VOTE: Golden Robster

James forcefully trying to paint a specific picture here and I don't think it has anything to do with Biases

VOTE: James

I don't think James is scummy just a try hard trying to break rvs. Between GR and Unreal, Unreals vote seems more opportunistic.

YES
Finally someone understands. This is how I try to start games as a rule. The quicker we get the day started, the better.

VOTE: James Brafin

VOTE: Golden Robster

James forcefully trying to paint a specific picture here and I don't think it has anything to do with Biases

VOTE: James

I don't think James is scummy just a try hard trying to break rvs. Between GR and Unreal, Unreals vote seems more opportunistic.

why are you chainsawing

let the man speak for himself

WOW, this is bad. By saying GR is chainsawing (which he’s not, he’s making an observation) you are implying that he’s scum with me. Now, while I understand your reservations on me, this is unwarranted. There is no reason to be pinning scum so quickly like that.

Thinking there is scum between popo and Unreal. The front is coasting on what should be RVS, the other is in high-attack mode.

[James Brafin]

K, so I think snarky is part of Gustavo in general. However, I will agree that it looks like he is doing a lot of posturing. Also all of his arguments have seemed really weak. I’m starting to lean scum here. However, I’m still looking hard at popo and Unreal. Thinking Unreal could be a scum buddy. Not sure about popo tho, that’s an awfully gutsy move for him to be driving a scum wagon.

[James Brafin]

I suppose it is possible I am assuming things. But I naked voted him and he naked voted me, which I read as an OMGUS vote. I never said it was bad or scummy. In fact, for RVS that’s pretty NAI. What I don’t like is his response to me when I start probing, which is a flat “nope, you wrong. Gonna be snarky about it.” Which I don’t see coming from town, unless that’s playstyle?

1. Why did you just assume it was omgus?
2. Why didn’t you follow up and ask me what my reason was for once you learned it wasn’t omgus?
3. Why did you assume I was snarky? I wasn’t being snarky
4. Why do you keep making assumptions?
5. Ignoring your own opinion on snarky behavior and incorrect assumption on me being snarky, did you go look to see if it fits my playstyle?
5a. If yes, what did you decide? If no, why the hell not?

1. Because timing and naked voting. It’s okay, Gus. There’s nothing wrong with a OMGUS vote in RVS intentional or not.
2. It’s a straight up naked RVS vote. If it’s not OMGUS, it’s likely for poops and giggles.
3. As far as I am aware, no one else reads you that way. Just so you know.
4. Why do you feel the need to ask? Remember what I said about snarky? It’s stuff like this that causes it.
5. Yes and see above.

The problem here is is I could care less if you OMGUSed me. Your reaction though, sucked. It was defensive and flailing and snarky and it looks bad. It doesn’t even look remotely townie. That’s my problem.

[James Brafin]

Not sure about popo tho, that’s an awfully gutsy move for him to be driving a scum wagon.

You realize a scum wagon means you’re scum...

Sorry, not coherent. Meant “wagon as scum.”

[James Brafin]

That’s not accurate. I’ve seen games with 13 people that have third parties.

[James Brafin]

I’m not really sure where these posturing accusations are coming from but all I’ll say is they aren’t true. I’m not posturing. I’m being as honest and transparent as I can be. I’m an open book.

also what is your definition of posturing cause I don’t even know what that means.

Trying to look more important or smarter than others to gain town cred or control.

It’s a straight up naked RVS vote. If it’s not OMGUS, it’s likely for poops and giggles.

Really wish you would have attempted to figure out which.

That’s why I PROBED.

3. As far as I am aware, no one else reads you that way. Just so you know.

You didn’t answer my question.

I assumed that you were being snarky because your posts read as though you were being snarky. Which is fine; I am snarky too, it just doesn’t come out in my posts.

Why do you feel the need to ask?

Understanding motives for why people do things is kind of important

Why do you feel like I was assuming things?

Your reaction though, sucked

So I was supposed to not respond to you? Because that was my only other alternative. I’m sorry I don’t pick up on rhetorical questions all the time.

No. But your response came across as trying to shut me down to me. Maybe it wasn’t intentional, but I don’t think so.

Not sure about popo tho, that’s an awfully gutsy move for him to be driving a scum wagon.

You realize a scum wagon means you’re scum...

Sorry, not coherent. Meant “wagon as scum.”

Oh ok.

Follow up? Is it gutsy for pop or scum in general?

I think it’s gutsy for scum in general, especially this early. It makes me second guess my scumread of him.

[James Brafin]

You’re not wrong, Gustavo. This is my first game in probably 3-4 months.

[James Brafin]

Page 7:

these are some pointless posts add this guy to my scumreads

Please respond to my questions

i gave reads earlier bub check my iso

Those weren’t good enough and they lack reasoning. I’m afraid I’m going to need to lock down some reasons from you. Can’t have you try and cover your ass with some Bs down the road.

i do what i want, when i want

Welp, this is scummy as fuck.

Thank you for starting a useless argument it has led to an accumulation of a gigantic scum pool, but one that is pretty accurate I think.

I shall post in more details as soon as I can.
For now.. my initial reaction is what the fuck. What a fake start.

Seal - why can't it be SvS?

Gustavo - since you hate assumptions.. please explain the "haven't played in like 3 years" in boring detail. In the literal sense you are lying but it's a dumb lie so I'm assuming it's hyperbole but you hate assumptions (allegedly) and so let's hear it from the source. If I determine that you downplayed your activitiy intentionally that would be scummy to me so I'd like to gauge your intentions. Also because in our last game we played great but you came across as scum in the early game. Just others seemed scummier which helped me stay on track.

- French knows who scum is so he/she is pretending he/she doesn't know by faking town over-confidence / town ego posting.
VOTE: French
It's also easier to catch the scum looking in first then sort out the people involved in the debate based on associations. Though I haven't read with extra scrutiny yet someone might jump out as more obvious scum.

Fwiw initial gut feel is that gamma and james are town. Rest are scum or null. Though gamma is calmer and nicer than last time we've played. Rip into those that disagree with you .. way easier to read you that way

Pop seems townie on tone but I haven't played with him before so I'm not comfortable gut reading him yet.

James I'm glad you're only one head this time. You and Korina obviously get along quite well but sorting a hydra was very difficult considering you two had a few internal contradictions / disagreements.

This is a pretty good post. Leaning town!Jaber. Also, I hydra with Inferno, not Korina. Wtf?

[James Brafin]

Don’t think Gustavo vs. Garmr is TvT Garmr is super agressive and seems to be looking for a lynch. Gustavo, on the other hand, is slightly defensive, but making good, strong points on Garmr.
Gonna do a read list in a bit, once I get off mobile.

[James Brafin]

Don’t think Gustavo vs. Garmr is TvT Garmr is super agressive and seems to be looking for a lynch. Gustavo, on the other hand, is slightly defensive, but making good, strong points on Garmr.
Gonna do a read list in a bit, once I get off mobile.

I take offence to that i think my points are on gusto are strong and good.

Yeah, I disagree. Your read, as far as I can tell, “I don’t think Gustavo is playing the way

I

think he should play, so he’s scum. Yet

I

am allowed to play however I like because...?”
Plus, why take offense? Seems like a scummy response. If you want to have a civil debate about it, let’s do that. There’s no reason for town to get offended.
In fact, you make more sense as scum than Gustavo judging from your interactions.
VOTE: Garmr

[James Brafin]

i think my points are on gusto are strong and good.

In the off chance I am wrong about you, at what point do you begin to admit that your singular opinion may not be as good as you think? Not counting myself there is easily 3/4 people who don't think you have a good case on me. They can't all be scum, so what makes your opinion greater than the group of other townies?

You made a post commenting on how I didn't respond to your case, I wasn't really going to do that because i didn't feel it was useful as I am not trying to change your opinion of me but I will let you decide. Do you want me to respond to your case on me? Would you like me to explain why it isn't a good case?

I don't really want to get involved in a back and forth on it though. if I respond you have to respect that my opinion and your opinion are clearly different.

3/4 you mean 3 votes to 4. Well in my eyes atleast one of those is scum and the others aren't exactly top quality players if they are voting me.

So you are claiming to be (one of) the best player in this game?
Looks like a grab for town cred and peer to me

[James Brafin]

EWBOP: Town cred and power.

[James Brafin]

@MOD: VC plz?

[James Brafin]

Just checked and realized that Garmr is L-1 with my vote, so please do not hammer yet.
That said, this flaily shit is not town aligned, and tactical replace is a thing. I’ve seen it done by both town PR and scum in newbie games, so unless that’s only for those I definitely think that is what this is. Garmr scum is definitely a real thing. Also, I’d like to point out he did not actually signal the mod, which means that the mod is unlikely to see it and therefore making me think this is a gambit to get people off his butt.

[James Brafin]

I mean

are you willing to lynch this and take the consequences if it flips town?

zzzz

Remembering this. This looks like it could be informed and a setup.

[James Brafin]

Pretty sure Hikari is the only one.

[James Brafin]

Lol sure. You’ve been hard tunneling me all phase. You’re vote hasn’t moved once, much as you’d like to make it seem otherwise. You strike me as tunnely town tho.

Pedit: who has not posted.

[James Brafin]

Actually, my position on GR depends on Garmr’s flip. If he flips scum, GR is prob bad town. If he flips town tho, GR is most likely scum. But I don’t see a Garmr/GR world making sense.

[James Brafin]

Your ISO tells me a different story, GR. You are tunneling me.

[James Brafin]

Actually, my position on GR depends on Garmr’s flip. If he flips scum, GR is prob bad town. If he flips town tho, GR is most likely scum. But I don’t see a Garmr/GR world making sense.

Urgh, this seems kinda like a setup to me

This looks like it could be informed and a setup.

loooooooooooool

im actually crying

Wtf?
What you and I did are completely different. I am hunting by association, recognizing that certain scumteams don’t make sense. You are implying that getting on the Garmr wagon makes you scum. That’s not town at all. It’s like you know he’ll flip town and you want potential lynchbait tommorow.

[James Brafin]

KK. readlist incoming:

ConfTown: Bujaber, UnrealSeal
Likely Town: Gamma and Gustavo
Null: Espeonage, Music, Krazy, French, Locke. I need to Iso these folks and sort them pretty bad.
Possible scum: Golden Retriever
ConfScum: Popo and Garmr.

Unlike Golden Retriever, who has tunneled me, but also interacted with others and contributed., all Popo has done is said "Oh, this guy is scum, this guy is scum" without actually advancing gamestate, postured, tried to get control of town, and generally just been a cocky jerk. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he's obviously in hyper-aggressive mode and searching for reasons to get lynches on people that he thinks he can get mislynched easily. The chainsaw is horrendous from Popo as well. Popo/Garmr is definitely a possible scumteam for me. GR is unlikely a partner of either though.

Bujaber has been pretty townie so far, despite a low post count. He seems like he's actually interested in the game state and hunting by meta, which is a good move IMO. Unreal has been involved and townie,. I like his hesitation on the Garmr wagon, though I don't agree with the lolhammer assessment.
The rest I need to sort, but that shouldn't take long, considering they have very few posts each. But that also means that I can't be too certain on any of those reads, so there is a good chance taht I won't glean anything. We'll see.

[James Brafin]

Locke and Musci ar e true null, with only one post each. Krazy and French I'm leaning scum. The former has been all mechanics, which normally I don't think is bad, except it's all mechanics that are not essential to the game at this time. The latter has all been fluffposting and not really adding anything to the gamestate. His naked sheeping is also not my favorite thing in the world.

[James Brafin]

Wait, are Espionage and Locke the same person?

[James Brafin]

Don’t think Gustavo vs. Garmr is TvT Garmr is super agressive and seems to be looking for a lynch. Gustavo, on the other hand, is slightly defensive, but making good, strong points on Garmr.
Gonna do a read list in a bit, once I get off mobile.

I take offence to that i think my points are on gusto are strong and good.

Yeah, I disagree. Your read, as far as I can tell, “I don’t think Gustavo is playing the way

I

think he should play, so he’s scum. Yet

I

am allowed to play however I like because...?”
Plus, why take offense? Seems like a scummy response. If you want to have a civil debate about it, let’s do that. There’s no reason for town to get offended.
In fact, you make more sense as scum than Gustavo judging from your interactions.
VOTE: Garmr

this is forced af. hes using forced, shitty reasoning to jump on a wagon that at this stage was very close to being a lynch (i believe this was l-2?) late jumps on shitty wagons to hopefully push through a quick lynch is textbook mafia behaviour. i caught this dude on PAGE ONE lets lynch his ass already.

Whether you want to admit it or not, this is chainsawing. You are attacking me to defend someone else. Or is that not your definition of chainsawing?

[James Brafin]

This is not a newbie game, if that is what you are referring to...

[James Brafin]

@James I think it's more likely popo is newbtown rather than scum.

especially given his recent posts, it reads like someone who did read through the wiki for a bit and then decided to join in a game. He also isn't an alt I don't think.

i made my first account on this website in 2011...

So this proves he’s not a noob, and that this play is intentional. If anything, that makes me scumread him harder.

[James Brafin]

Oh, kk.
Can you explain why you think he’s just dumb town, please? Cause I just am not seeing it.

[James Brafin]

I am still up for Garmr. His play sucked for beginning game. But I do think we should wait for our lurkers to post as well.

[James Brafin]

I do have a question for you Gus: what is your read list? I recall you posting one earlier, but could you repost and elaborate?

[James Brafin]

Locke is town. Those progressions and thought processes come from town, not scum.

[James Brafin]

Kk, so I’m doing a by-hand vote count to double check, but I’m pretty sure Garmr just got hammered by Gustavo.
I’ll respond to his bull after that.

[James Brafin]

I was wrong, thank goodness. Here’s where we are now:

Here’s where we are now:
Music (L-6): Locke
Gustavo (L-6): French
Unreal (L-6): Hirakl
French (L-6): BuJaber
James Brafin (L-5): Gamma, popo
Garmr (L-3): Garmr, James Brafin, Gus, Krazy (Maybe Unreal Seal?)

Not voting: I have no fricking idea.

[James Brafin]

Just realized the extent of Garmr’s attack on me. Gonna get off mobile to respond. However, I would like to point out this:

-Replace-out timing was strange. Also his frustration seemed to go 0-60 really quickly. Now I don't know him it could be normal for him, but usually I find my (and most others') frustration seems to build up a little over several posts or pages etc.

I had it for a while ever since 3 people accused me chainsawing I'm just vented it into more aggressive scum hunting.
VOTE: garmr

That's me at l-1 James,Gustavo and unreal seal as scum as my final scum reads. I suggest lynching James first tomorrow as his actions make him more likely to be scum.

Town
-Golden robster
-POPOPOP
-french
-gamma emereld

The rest are null.


Take this as a lesson to everyone. Things you perceive as chain sawing are full of shit.

and i'm vanilla townie so town isn't losing a power role by lynching me.

This is why I thought we had a lolhammer. But that’s obviously not true, as of my vote count. I’m thinking this is a scummy as frick way to stop a wagon on Harmr, and I like it 0. Solid scumread on Garmr. Will post more off Mobil.

[James Brafin]

I'm thinking on Hiraki that although it's unlikely that she is Traitor, we need to take taht with a healthy grain of salt. The way I see it, wouldn't asking for the shot/lynch be playing against her wincon as Mafia Traitor?
Been exhausted, I need to do a reread but have a lot of other crud to take care of. Should be done by tomorrow night though and ready to respond to Garmr's accusations about me. And yes, I know those were for Bujaber but honestly it doesn't feel like it was just "Here's what I see from James Brafin." It feels like a lot of misrep or misunderstanding and a pretty big attack phrased as an "explanation."

[James Brafin]

Okay, I came into this thinking Hiraki was rough, but this is just downright toxic. I wouldn’t put this past scum play either; I’ve seen games where players have survived to endgame by just turning people off and make them not want to play. Scum leaning Hiraki for now.

[James Brafin]

Hi I'm replacing in. I'll catch up by tomorrow afternoon. Thanks. Meanwhile UNVOTE:

DrDolittle replaces in for UC Voyager

Thanks for letting us know.

[James Brafin]

Also, I’m aware of my inactivity of late. I’m going out of town tomorrow and have only had time to skim, but going to sit down tonight and do a full catchup and wall post from my last “true” post. Still convinced that Garmr is scum atm, and another between GR/popo. Possible that this will change, but that’s where I am right now. Thanks.

[James Brafin]

DONE WITH THE SNARKY SHADING FROM GARMR
WALLS INCOMING!
Page 17

What made you change your mind on James and I'm curious what the case you said you were going to whip up would have included

got side-tracked and less sure about him being scum

I have him as undecided right now just because I think some of what he's said have been reasonable

You went from a hard tunnel on me to me being reasonable? Last I checked I was your strongest scumread.

because you're hard tunnelling one of my locktown reads

This is either white knighting or chainsawing, but I don’t recall GR EVER sending a read this way.

I mean I don't mind tunnelling if I think it's scum

Why is it ok for you to hard tunnel who you think it’s scum but I’m not allowed to do the same?

Because you hard tunnel/death tunnel town masons. Sorry had to take that stab.

SEE?
This bull is why I want this lynched! This is a blatant attempt to save GRs and Garmr’s butts!

Unless you are admitting your tunneling on James was unhelpful

I didn't really tunnel james

I pushed him; I don't have confirmation bias nor am I unopposed to re-evaluating my reads

This is a lie. You tunneled me. If I remember correctly, you even admitted to tunneling me. So please stop.

[James Brafin]

You didn’t deny tunneling originally, you did follow it up afterwards accusing James of misrepping you.

Regardless if you think you were or weren’t tunneling the take away is you are fine tunneling your scum reads. I’m fine tunneling mine. The fact you disagree with who I’m tunneling doesn’t mean I’m scum or a bad player.

The fact you disagree with who I’m tunneling doesn’t mean I’m scum or a bad player.

how not?

So since I disagree with you, you are now scum/a bad player?
This logic sucks, and is screaming looking for lynchbait.

I'm town but can we get my lynch over and done with already.

Saw this in another game as a scum gambit. So I’m very aware this doesn’t come from town.

james isnt happening today, i refuse to vote garmr hes obvtown

so

vote:frenchachilles

how about we do this

OH MAGES PLEASE
How about some freaking reads?

refuse to vote garmr hes obvtown

Why?

his frustration and replace out request feels genuine and like hes a vanilla townie

That’s your only reason for Garmr being town?
This logic sucks.

[James Brafin]

So did you not see where he’s done it as scum before?

no could u link the game please

viewtopic.php?p=7901104#p7901104

Plus he just admitted he’s done it another time. I don’t have that game link.

damn
brazy
fair enough

I wish I knew what was going on in your head popo, because right now this looks like an agreement for scum without a vote?

Garmr (5)

Krazy, James Brafin,

Garmr,

Gustavo

, UnrealSeal

nice i found the scum team

Didn’t you just say you didn’t have confBias? Then what, dear sir, is this?

The fact that robster doesn’t reconsider given the new evidence means he’s either scum with garmr or white knighting them.

Nobody should ever town read him for the remainder of the game. He’s defending garmer for something he’s done multiple times as scum and we can rule out they are masons so yeah.

I am fully in agreement here.

[James Brafin]

congrats I reconsidered the evidence and I had zero change of opinion

not sure if you're trying to throw shade on me by saying "nobody should town read me" but it gives me pleasure that you seem annoyed

Why would town be pleased that anyone is annoyed, especially other town?

Having trouble between deciding to vote gus or james.

Gus is the bigger wagon but at the moment James feels better.

Having trouble between deciding to vote gus or james.

Gus is the bigger wagon but at the moment James feels better.

keep your vote on gus

it needs rope

QUIT COACHING
This is white knight evidence though because no way scum says this to scum in thread. Or maybe they do for Wifom distancing? :p Hard to say.

No it’s not. He has evidence that proves his only reason for town reading garmer as town is actually something he’s done as scum. He was sort of suspicious of garmr before the replace out which means he’s doubling down on a Bs agenda. This only makes sense in the 2 scenarios. It doesn’t make sense with him as town at all

yes it is

if you refuse to townread someone just because of your own confirmation bias then it's 100% your fault

that was before his genuine reaction and replace out

what bs agenda?

Wow love the hypocrisy here. Isn’t this exactly what you have done all game?

Gamma those posts were pretty empty considering you hadn't posted in sometime. Where is active Gamma?

I think Gustavo is town. I think y'all are voting him for a personality clash.

I think Rob is far too confident on Garmr to be a townie. His push is unreal, his argument with gustavo is irrelevant and distracting, his 180 on garmr is suspicious, what he considers an obvtown reaction is shocking.. there are far more genuine looking reactions across MS, this one is very difficult to townread that confidently. Therefore I find myself agreeing with gustavo that this is whiteknighting or defending a buddy, and tactically whiteknighting would make more sense but we'll sort out which later.

Also the fact that garmr didn't actually put himself onL-1 but claimed he did doesn't seem to change his mind which wouldn't be an issue but he is also ignoring my question about that but answering every single point gustavo makes? Suspicous

VOTE: golden robster

My thought si a nutshell.

I think Rob is far too confident on Garmr to be a townie. His push is unreal, his argument with gustavo is irrelevant and distracting, his 180 on garmr is suspicious, what he considers an obvtown reaction is shocking.. there are far more genuine looking reactions across MS, this one is very difficult to townread that confidently. Therefore I find myself agreeing with gustavo that this is whiteknighting or defending a buddy, and tactically whiteknighting would make more sense but we'll sort out which later.

Also the fact that garmr didn't actually put himself onL-1 but claimed he did doesn't seem to change his mind which wouldn't be an issue but he is also ignoring my question about that but answering every single point gustavo makes? Suspicous

Why do you think I'm whiteknighting when you think gamr is suspicious?

Isn't that hypocritical reasoning at best?

It is possible for someone to be suspicious and town (see: GUSTAVO). One must always entertain the possibility of a bad read, no matter how ridiculous that might be.

[James Brafin]

As of page twenty my read list remains the same, except Garmr moves to prob scum and GR to def scum.

[James Brafin]

Page 21

It is laughable that you think gustavo is the scummiest person this day phase when we have all these other people doing far scummier things. I literally have no solid townreads yet with a gamestate like this and that is why it is doubly surprising to me that you can be townreading anyone this confidently let alone garmr.

if anything my gut speaks more to me than my brain

it's like fine if you scumread me but that doesn't change the fact that I'm town and I truly believe gamr is town

This is all gutreads?
Seriously, GR, you are making me cry right now. This is SO bad.

no what I am saying is that you are scummy. You can't seriously be expecting people to believe you are townie like this. There is no healthy skepticism and any arguments presented that should make you think twice about garmr are not letting you budge even a little. It's indicative of someone with information.

you still haven't refuted my point

He did, actually.

Either way you definitely should be lynched before garmr (which could just as well be your strategy if say you are a goon and garmr is a scum PR).

contrived example with zero evidence

try harder

THAT doesn’t sound familiar at all.

@hiraki okay you misunderstood me

like on several levels.

when both Garmr and James understood what I was talking about

in 37 I was referring to James's push on to Gustavo (not popo).

the picture thing refers to James trying to paint Gustavo as scummy for denying he OMGUS'd, despite having no proof of Gustavo's intentions and despite that being a silly thing for Gustavo as scum to be denying.

his push on to Gustavo was almost revolved around it for quite some time until the Garmr wagon crept up.

No buy

Why do you think people will vote with you when you're pissfighting with him?

didn't you just vote him

also pissfight has zero connection with his allignment

He dug his grave you meanie

Unvote, Vote: Gustavo

If town this is a terrible vote. You know damn well what I’m saying is true. Evidence has been provided that proves garmr does this as scum. Rob’s basis for town reading garmr was the replace out. Failing to reconsider given the new evidence is either scum claim or somebody playing against their win condition imo

NO BUY

Not feeling great about Hiraki after this. There’s a lot of confBias here.

Again, Locke is absolutely town. His play is just not from a scum midndset.

[James Brafin]

Oh, and in case I haven’t made it clear, it’s one post per page until I’ve caught up.

[James Brafin]

DONE WITH THE SNARKY SHADING FROM GARMR

This proves he has seen all my post. Instead of addressing of them, he does a weak catch up and portrays himself as a victim how can anyone call this town......

What part of I’ve been skimming are you not getting?
Also, there’s a classic scum move, to respond to only the stuff you don’t like. Thanks man.
Going to dinner, gonna catch up some more after.

[James Brafin]

Gonna ignore the obvious bait there and keep trucking.
Page 22

vote:frenchachilles

why dont we compromise with this

This seems odd to say the least. This is the farthest from a viable wagon at that point in time; why is this coming up?

vote:frenchachilles

why dont we compromise with this

I think a

good divide

will help sort out out the playerbase.

A lynch between me and gustavo will be informational.

This is scum thinking 101. Only scum wants to divide town against itself. Town should be working together and not forcing people to choose sides.

vote:frenchachilles

why dont we compromise with this

I think a good divide will help sort out out the playerbase.

A lynch between me and gustavo will be informational.

If you want me to believe you are town, tell me what YOU learn when I flip town.

Who is the scum on my wagon.

Because I am town.

See here's the problem I think you are scum and you are not applying the same standard to me. I'm pretty much town reading your whole wagon except with one exception which I been wifoming about since that one post.

Vig please shoot popopopo, scum please kill this slot. I

will become a traitor,

for sure.

I'm on the ropes if this a legit drop or just a joke. The italics kinda draw attention to it in a subtle way and I haven't really seen anyone bring it up.

The scenario were the whole scum defends me because they think I'm the traitor and the traitor defends me because they think I'm part of the scum team ran through my head. But I don't think that's what happened.

I’m not liking lots about this post.
A) See, this is a two way street. IT IS POSSIBLE that Gus is town. In fact I think it’s pretty likely considering his interactions. So you had better have a reason other than “he’s scum” for his flip, because that’s a crappy reason to lynch.
B) I’m starting to think that the Traitor thing is solely to get people off his ass. The more I read that the more I think there is nothing there.

actually just

replace me out

cba argueing with players and it's draining

I agree that this looks like a tactical.

GUSTAVO completely ignored the traitor drop I pointed out while acknowledging my post. He didn't put his on input into it and was quick to scrub it off. I think he doesn't want this subject discussed which cements my scum read even more.

The traitor comment wasn’t directed at me. Why would I respond to it?

Just like you just ignored most of what I said to hit at two points I made?
Again, this is not a two way street. You can’t say we can’t do something and then do it yourself. And unlike Gus, I do think hypocrisy in large doses is scum indicative.

[James Brafin]

Page 23

GUSTAVO completely ignored the traitor drop I pointed out while acknowledging my post. He didn't put his on input into it and was quick to scrub it off. I think he doesn't want this subject discussed which cements my scum read even more.

The traitor comment wasn’t directed at me. Why would I respond to it?

That's a load of hog wash you asked who do I think could be scum on my wagon. My answer was I'm town reading everyone on it except Hiraki who i'm juggling and a null FrenchAchilles.

You ignored my answer and even if you did somehow think it wasn't related to you. It's something that should be discussed by everyone and trying to push it out seems scummy as fuck.

That's a load of hog wash you asked who do I think could be scum on my wagon. My answer was I'm town reading everyone on it except Hiraki who i'm juggling and a null FrenchAchilles.

That wasn’t your answer at all. This was your answer

applying the same standard to me. I'm pretty much town reading your whole wagon except with one exception which I been wifoming about since that one post.

You are clipping posts to suit your agenda.

vote:frenchachilles

why dont we compromise with this

I think a good divide will help sort out out the playerbase.

A lynch between me and gustavo will be informational.

If you want me to believe you are town, tell me what YOU learn when I flip town.

Who is the scum on my wagon.

Because I am town.

See here's the problem I think you are scum and you are not applying the same standard to me. I'm pretty much town reading your whole wagon except with one exception which I been wifoming about since that one post.

Vig please shoot popopopo, scum please kill this slot. I

will become a traitor,

for sure.

I'm on the ropes if this a legit drop or just a joke. The italics kinda draw attention to it in a subtle way and I haven't really seen anyone bring it up.

The scenario were the whole scum defends me because they think I'm the traitor and the traitor defends me because they think I'm part of the scum team ran through my head. But I don't think that's what happened.

It's pretty simple I interpreted you as asking who could be scum on your wagon. I said who I was town reading in my post and my reads on others. Even gave a reasoning for one one of them. I said I don't think you are applying the same standard for me as you haven't gave scenarios on who may be scum for my town flip. I could be wrong maybe you have and I didn't see it that way but besides the point. Then when I tell you the whole post was addressed to you. You say no it wasn't and keep running your narrative. It's like your just reaching for reasons to scum read me here.

So thus is bull on Garmr’s part. He did not ever make it clear that he wanted to discuss Hiraki with Hus, and then used that as a shit reason to push a read on him. This is scummy as fuck at its finest.

Other than like two posts, this entire page is a continuation of an enormous fight between Garmr and Gus. A fight that as far as I can tell has yet to stop. So this is me saying to both of you,

shut the frick up. Please.

Your constant fighting, bickering, and carrying on is making it impossible to do anything this day-phase. If you have to, take a break for a day or two. But at best your play is detrimental to town and at worst scum aligned, which in the case of Garmr, I’m pretty convinced it is.

Also, I’m noticing more and more how convulted Garmr’s logic is getting as the day goes on. The more I read the more it looks like twists of logic to convince himself and everyone else of what he is saying.

[James Brafin]

Just realized I somehow missed this. Response time.

If you ask me there wasn't any chainsawing this game so everyone who used that word was wrong.

But really we don't have to go through it.

If you're town you could convince us to lynch James first.. I'd rather lynch scum on the first go in a TvS situation rather than lose the coin flip the first time.

First day everyone is expendable even myself, I know what you mean through.

Don’t think Gustavo vs. Garmr is TvT Garmr is super agressive and seems to be looking for a lynch. Gustavo, on the other hand, is slightly defensive, but making good, strong points on Garmr.
Gonna do a read list in a bit, once I get off mobile.

Before this point he was null.This is obvious prepping to switch wagons. His just waiting for that push. Also his trying to separate it into it must be TvS. If I am wrong about gustavo this opportunistic scum looking for two lynches in a row. Also he ignored the possibility of a TVT which seems unreasonable. Since he says that gustavos points are good. Then it should be reasonable as town to assume that gustavo is town who is just wrong. Also it's not natural for him to be saying gustavo points are good with out any reasoning. Because a couple of posts ago he was pushing Gustavo as scummy. This makes me think newb scum eager for a mislynch.

Okay, what the frick? Firstly, please tell me which is scummier: just switching sides on a wagon for no reason, or switching wagons and actually having a reason? At least I’m decent enough to put it before my vote. Second, why is it unreasonable for my perspective of the 1v1 yo be SvT? Is it not okay for any perspective to be different than yours? Because that’s how I’ve felt this game. Third, it is possible for Gus to be town that’s wrong, I’m sorry that I think that Gus is town that’s right, because that can’t be right because anyone who disagrees with you is automatically wrong. Fourth, I’m sorry I didn’t feel the need to quote every single post on mobile, and that my reads can change without me laying out point for point why. I’ll make sure to write an essay next time I start town reading someone.

This is the problem: everything you just said makes absolutely no sense if you actually think about it. It’s all just lynchbait hunting. And you’ve been doing it all game long.

Don’t think Gustavo vs. Garmr is TvT Garmr is super agressive and seems to be looking for a lynch. Gustavo, on the other hand, is slightly defensive, but making good, strong points on Garmr.
Gonna do a read list in a bit, once I get off mobile.

I take offence to that i think my points are on gusto are strong and good.

Yeah, I disagree. Your read, as far as I can tell, “I don’t think Gustavo is playing the way

I

think he should play, so he’s scum. Yet

I

am allowed to play however I like because...?”
Plus, why take offense? Seems like a scummy response. If you want to have a civil debate about it, let’s do that. There’s no reason for town to get offended.
In fact, you make more sense as scum than Gustavo judging from your interactions.
VOTE: Garmr

Should of voted in the previous post which makes me think he was just painting me as scum.. The fact I lashed out on him gave him a excuse to vote me.

lol no. This is weaksause as frick. Again, which is better, to have a reason or to not have a reason? Because I can certainly just randomly vote people if you want me to. I don’t think it’s going to help town much though.

i think my points are on gusto are strong and good.

In the off chance I am wrong about you, at what point do you begin to admit that your singular opinion may not be as good as you think? Not counting myself there is easily 3/4 people who don't think you have a good case on me. They can't all be scum, so what makes your opinion greater than the group of other townies?

You made a post commenting on how I didn't respond to your case, I wasn't really going to do that because i didn't feel it was useful as I am not trying to change your opinion of me but I will let you decide. Do you want me to respond to your case on me? Would you like me to explain why it isn't a good case?

I don't really want to get involved in a back and forth on it though. if I respond you have to respect that my opinion and your opinion are clearly different.

3/4 you mean 3 votes to 4. Well in my eyes atleast one of those is scum and the others aren't exactly top quality players if they are voting me.

So you are claiming to be (one of) the best player in this game?
Looks like a grab for town cred and peer to me

Pretty much scum trying to paint someone right here. What town would think this alignment indicative. Also I think his trying to grasps at other reasons since the main reason everyone is voting me is they think I'm chainsawing everyone.

Dude, you’re entire reasoning here is “people voting me are either bad or scum.” How is that town aligned at all, period? Gustavo asks you how far you are willing to push a bullshit attack and your only response is “well, everyone else sucks.”

Just checked and realized that Garmr is L-1 with my vote, so please do not hammer yet.
That said, this flaily shit is not town aligned, and tactical replace is a thing. I’ve seen it done by both town PR and scum in newbie games, so unless that’s only for those I definitely think that is what this is. Garmr scum is definitely a real thing. Also, I’d like to point out he did not actually signal the mod, which means that the mod is unlikely to see it and therefore making me think this is a gambit to get people off his butt.

Says he has seen this done by both sides. Claims it must come from scum. I also got a pm from the mod asking me in private if I wanted to replace out But I sleeped on it and thought do I really want to be known as that guy .

I’ve seen tactical replace by both. I’ve only seen TACTICAL REPLACE GAMBITS from scum. Without bold, you knew mod would never see that. No one is stupid here Garmr, that’s something you learn in the newbie que.

Actually, my position on GR depends on Garmr’s flip. If he flips scum, GR is prob bad town. If he flips town tho, GR is most likely scum. But I don’t see a Garmr/GR world making sense.

This here is scummy as fuck as his painting GR in a bad light no matter how I flip. His calling him bad town if I flip scum and scum if I flip town. i am going to flip town so he lined up another possible lynch tomorrow. He ignores the fact that each time his done this it could a T&T Situation. At best it should be people he should be adding into his town list if I flip scum.

A) so you don’t lynch proven bad town, and there is no proof of your town flip. And no I don’t think it’s a coincidence that two people are attacking Gus so hard and then giving bad reasons for it.
B) There are people that flip town when you flip scum. Gus (who is moot now, but at the time), French, BuJaber all become townie in my eyes with association.

I am still up for Garmr. His play sucked for beginning game. But I do think we should wait for our lurkers to post as well.

Throws shade here but ignores early game was were he was praising me for pointing out his actions were null. This is what gustavo's primary scum read is for.

So you can point out stuff all you want, it doesn’t make your posts any better. Praise is also a strong word. “Try agree with you”. Also, I’m voting you, that is not “shade.” It’s called, “I still think you are scum.”

In short, none of the above is true or makes sense. Thanks.

[James Brafin]

Not going to deal with that wall right now as I need to catch up, but I just want to say I’m sorry I have a life offsite and have been too busy to to deal with wall post shit. My girlfriend’s bday, travel for vacation, and summer school finals were all this week. I thought I would have more time and didn’t. Are we better now Garmr? Because frankly I’m tired of the “I’m better than everyone else here” crud. That is a crap reason for a policy lynch and you need to stop attacking people and being nasty because they don’t agree with your version of how to play.

[James Brafin]

Did notice that BuJaber said something about me pushing a case on Garmr; I just wannat point out that a great deal of what I have caught up on is all Garmr fighting with people. ATM is my review, there isn’t much else to look at.

[James Brafin]

Page 24
So I open this page and I’m starting to get the feeling that Gamma might be scum. I haven’t actually seen him be productive today at all, and it sort of looks like Gamma is hiding behind this to avoid doing too much.
UnrealSeal is now lockdown for me. Thanks have a nice day.

As for hiraki I think we can assume the post is a joke but we just regard him with a healthy amount of caution. I highly doubt he's actually a traitor, but who knows.
He could be:
Town who joked - we don't want to lynch
Traitor - better to lynch actual mafia first
Scum - we'll sort later.

Pedit - nope. If gustavo is indeed town we are in the best position to force scum to hammer or risk losing their wagon. No need to hurry up at all.

And rob is a better lynch than garmr.

Why would we lynch confirmed Town and not make scum waste their shot? This seems odd. If you could explain your reasoning here BuJaber that would be great.

Okay, I came into this thinking Hiraki was rough, but this is just downright toxic. I wouldn’t put this past scum play either; I’ve seen games where players have survived to endgame by just turning people off and make them not want to play. Scum leaning Hiraki for now.

Huh? Are you sure you're talking about the right person?

I was. I felt like Hiraki was being a bit nasty at the time, just enough to turn people off. Her play and posting has improved since then though, and in perspective there are way worse in the game right now.

[James Brafin]

Page 25: where everyone discovers Gus is a PR.
There’s a lot of speculation here but I’m thinking it’s mostly null.
Of course, then we have this:

We probably should lynch between me and gusto to prevent any other roles from being revealed.

First of all, do you really want to talk about Lynch all Liars now Garmr? Or do I need to remind you where your vote is now?
Second, are you seriously telling me we need to vote between town PR that you outed and “town?” Freaking gladiator with that? I honestly don’t know how a flashwagon didn’t form over this. But this? This is scummy as frick. And please explain why you tunnel Gus, get a claim, and

keep tunneling Gus.

There is no town motivation there. Period.

[James Brafin]

Part 2 of page 25: Garmr trades in one tunnel for another. At least he’s scum hunting now though, even though his cases are a paragraph long and provide no proof of any of his points, something he has chastised me on several times. I do agree that Gustavo’s response is a bit of a cop out, but seeing as he’s lock town with a shot tonight, I wouldn’t be giving out scumreads either, hoping that scum opts to not shoot him because he might not be targeting them.

[James Brafin]

@Bu
Got it. That’s a fair point, and I do agree it would not be a bad idea to wait on the lynch. That doesn’t mean that we don’t lynch Garmr/Gus though.

I’m also realizing that probably doesn’t make sense in light of earlier posts. Let me make it clear: Gus/Garmr is not a bad thing. My problem with Garmr’s post quoted above is that he claims it’s a mislynch either way, because “he’s town.” But there’s no proof of that. I’d argue that all the evidence points to him being hyper aggressive scum! In fact his entire argument to why others are town are from them town reading him because “he’s town.” And anyone scumreading him is automatically scum. So his claim of lynching between “two town to lessen the town hit” is crud, because there is no definitive proof that he is town. None.

[James Brafin]

Page 26: not gonna start doing massive quote walls, but nvm. Garmr is still tunneling Gustavo.
Also liking BuJaber more and more. His interactions and questions all feel very natural and town driven.

[James Brafin]

But we ignore the post that is explaining this “lie?”

[James Brafin]

Not going to deal with that wall right now as I need to catch up, but I just want to say I’m sorry I have a life offsite and have been too busy to to deal with wall post shit. My girlfriend’s bday, travel for vacation, and summer school finals were all this week. I thought I would have more time and didn’t. Are we better now Garmr? Because frankly I’m tired of the “I’m better than everyone else here” crud. That is a crap reason for a policy lynch and you need to stop attacking people and being nasty because they don’t agree with your version of how to play.

[James Brafin]

Hey, catching up. I’m may page 28 and trying to avoid walls, but this is what has struck me so far:
I fell like Locke is pretty much town at this point. Does everyone else agree with that? Just curious where we are reads wise right now.
The Gamma/Gus interactions strike me as... odd. Like, it definitely pings me but I can’t figure out why. I slightly have a scumread in Gamma at the moment and townread Gus so I’m super confused.

[James Brafin]

Also looking at the vc real fast and we probably need to choose Dr. Doolittle or Garmr for this lynch. That seems like where town majority is at this point. I’d prefer Garmr because he’s still my top scumread, but I would be ok with either really.

[James Brafin]

Popo
Why are you still trying to flashwagon me? What part of majority of votes are between Garmr and Dr. Do are you not understanding?

[James Brafin]

Reading through and thought I’d deal with a few things real quick:
Death tunneling Garmr atm. His argument against every single person this entire game has been “That’s not the way I see it so your perspective is wrong.” Which is super scummy imo. It is possible for people to disagree with him and his opinions and be right and he refuses to see that.
Locke asked me where my read from Unreal is coming from. Basically it boils down to the fact that he seems to be genuinely scum hunting and creating conversation, while not trying to take over the thread and force his opinions down everyone’s throats. There’s no posturing, no faking, nothing to make me think he is even remotely scummy.
Are we doing that top three thing still? Mine are Garmr, Popo, and Doolittle in distant third atm. I feel slightly better about dr.do, but not much. So far in my catch up he seems to be coasting a lot, but it’s possible that is in part because I’m having to skim a little bit.

[James Brafin]

Read the whole thing.
Also, the words “I thought, he seemed” are both opinion-indicative. In fact, all of your points above on Gus and me are opinions, because guess what? Few to none of us agree with you, which is why you’ve yet to run up a wagon on me. Now, on Locke you actually have a case. But you are guilty of the exact same things as Last coke, and you claim to be town. And you’ve not voted him once to my knowledge (may have forgotten)
And this is the first I’ve heard of Krazy being town from you. I thought you said she was scum.

[James Brafin]

Krazy

-posted nothing of substance all game. Just outrage comments and gif. Looking at his history this seems like his playstyle, The type that plays mafia scum like it's epic mafia and it's pretty annoying. Basically if "little kuribo" had a child with "not mafia" and the child was then dropped on it's head. While this candidate is more a wildcard and I think his more likely to be town unfortunately.

So he was a null read, but now he’s town. But you think he’s town despite disagreeing with what exactly, considering here he had no substance whatsoever?

[James Brafin]

Skating and Music, do you mind explaining why?

[James Brafin]

So the two people that have been lurking all game agree with you? Yeah I have real faith in this wagon.

[James Brafin]

Music has 6 posts
French had 15 before his replacement.
Lurker is accurate. I don’t expect them to have a strong understanding of what is going on this phase.

[James Brafin]

I don’t think they have a fully fledged opinion. It looks to me like Music is hopping on the wagon because it’s the biggest one. I don’t think either really have any idea what is going on.

@all:

Is anyone else wanting to vote me before I call it a night? Because if they do they had better do it. I don’t want to be lol hammered at 4 AM because I live two time zones over.

@Mod:

If we don’t get a true majority is it a lynch or a no lynch?

[James Brafin]

Nvm to mod I found it.

[James Brafin]

Hardclaim Vengeful Miller.
There, you happy Garmr? Outed two town with abilities in one day.

[James Brafin]

Great thanks all.
@Mod: Shoot Garmr