Open 726 - Revenge of the Vengeful (Endgame)

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Okay guys, let's go!

Before we start, I'll be selfish and establish a self meta

People tend to say I'm scummy because I "hop everywhere and get defensive" all the time. But hopping everywhere is my style and what do you expect from someone getting pressured, if it's not to get defensive for his life... If you don't like my style, okay, but fuck off with the scum reads lol.

VOTE: Enigma

Gl hf guys =)

[Marshmallow Marshall]

@Ankanimus, is lynch mandatory?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Okay guys, let's go!

Before we start, I'll be selfish and establish a self meta

People tend to say I'm scummy because I "hop everywhere and get defensive" all the time. But hopping everywhere is my style and what do you expect from someone getting pressured, if it's not to get defensive for his life... If you don't like my style, okay, but fuck off with the scum reads lol.

VOTE: Enigma

Gl hf guys =)

Excuses
VOTE: Marshmallow

Counter vote, confirmed scum

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Pretty sure keerigan is town

Why did you vote him enigma

Hey, you know who's on my avatar! Definetly town.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Pretty sure keerigan is town

Why did you vote him enigma

Because his first post is to set up a defence for when he gets accused later in game
tbh woulda done it regardless of his RV

"but guayyys im behaving scummy not because im scum but but but because its how i always play"

How are you so sure he is town already from just one post?

he's only played a few games, have a look at his flips?

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Enigma is T.O.W.N already. Not gonna jump the gum on MM, but that was an awful opener, my friend (and I don't need to explain more, do I? I'm sure you get where I'm coming from.)

It's an awful opener, really? Tbh, it's my real feelings (even if I was never town on this site, btw I'm from sc2mafia.com) but worded in an intentionally horribly scummy way

Enigma is probably town for that lol. I was expecting that kind of reaction from a town, and I also expected a hard push from a scum, as in "Hey, look at that noob who just suicided lol, ez lynch".

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Hmmm.. maybe not!

OK...

@MM: AP is an alt of mine, NOW you undertsand what I'm talking about, Right??

Hey, having only scum games is rough as hell, especially for a bad scum lol... plus apparently people don't enjoy my style here ^^ time to build my own meta!

Btw, I have hosted this exact setup at the Motherland (homesite if you prefer) and I would give this advice: Do not listen to the majority just to go under radar as town. That's a general rule, but in this setup it's lethal for town. The permanent chat will make scums coordinated, and it's their strenght but I believe it can also be their death

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Spoiler: Wild Theory (wouldn't be A50 if I didn't have one)

2 Noob scums weren't happy with their tole cards??

Rude. You assume that I am 1: scum 2: bad scum 3: stupid 4: have no respect for the game and its players.

Baaaah. Now I wonder if Cowbells didn't try to buddy me a bit though. However, the fact that he searched for me is quite townish... but again, we must not read for activity. Also VOTE: Almost50 I just realized voting N_M is not much productive ^^

[Marshmallow Marshall]

@Ankanimus, is lynch mandatory?

**Plurality rules are in effect. If the deadline passes without a lynch, the closest will be lynched.**

Danke.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Would you have preferred if I scumread you?

I mostly see openers like that coming from town.

Mhmm, and I do the same. I am just wondering. After all, doubting is our job lol.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Her vote on NM seems a bit empty
I don't see her posting anything else either
trying to get her to engage more I guess

N_M neither though ^^

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Her vote on NM seems a bit empty
I don't see her posting anything else either
trying to get her to engage more I guess

I looked through the list of names and thought the person who named themselves ‘Not_Mafia’ was asking for a vote. So, a random vote.

I’m probably on a different timeline to most of you (it’s evening for me here), so may not be able to post when you’re all at your most active. I usually wake up in the morning to a whole lot of posts, which I can’t do anything about until evening, because (a) I’m too busy in the morning just getting to work and (b) this site is blocked at work. So, you probably won’t hear much from me until evenings my time.

And I’m still getting to grips with how to play this game, so probably won’t post prolifically

Try to be as active as possible, and to share your critical thoughts first. And please don't forget an evening xD

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Spoiler: Wild Theory (wouldn't be A50 if I didn't have one)

2 Noob scums weren't happy with their tole cards??

Rude. You assume that I am 1: scum 2: bad scum 3: stupid 4: have no respect for the game and its players

.

Baaaah. Now I wonder if Cowbells didn't try to buddy me a bit though. However, the fact that he searched for me is quite townish... but again, we must not read for activity. Also VOTE: Almost50 I just realized voting N_M is not much productive ^^

The bolded is indeed a scum claim. Why would you even think I was talking about you in that spoiler? I was merely referring to the fact 2 players haven't confirmed their roles yet and both I don't know so assumed they are new to the site. Thanks for letting you guilty conscience speak out though.

Oh god... #misunderstandingslips. I thought you were talking about me and cowbells because I was under the spotlight and he was defending me somehow ^^ wasn't much clear. But why do you think that?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Spoiler: Wild Theory (wouldn't be A50 if I didn't have one)

2 Noob scums weren't happy with their tole cards??

Pls explain I don't understand this theory.

53 has the explanation.

Wait, no. It doesn't because you did not even refer to what you meant. Unless you intentionally made a double edged question...

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Also, I can state Trinity is a quite strong townread for me.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Spoiler: Reason

Why @62

Okay guys, let's go!

Before we start, I'll be selfish and establish a self meta

People tend to say I'm scummy because I "hop everywhere and get defensive" all the time. But hopping everywhere is my style and what do you expect from someone getting pressured, if it's not to get defensive for his life... If you don't like my style, okay, but fuck off with the scum reads lol.

VOTE: Enigma

Gl hf guys =)

Excuses
VOTE: Marshmallow

Pretty sure keerigan is town

Why did you vote him enigma

Because his first post is to set up a defence for when he gets accused later in game
tbh woulda done it regardless of his RV

"but guayyys im behaving scummy not because im scum but but but because its how i always play"

How are you so sure he is town already from just one post?

he's only played a few games, have a look at his flips?

He reacted as I expected a proactive town to react. Plus, he searched for my past games on-site (only scum games).

Why I townread RC but wonder if he didn't try to buddy me? Because he's right, but he saw only a half of the post (As did Enigma, but I do not believe it has a strong scum use). He said it looked like genuine anger, and he's right, because it took a long long time on my homesite for people to accept my style, even as town. However, I worded that in a so scummy way that I thought he would at least MENTION it was scummy. Idk, I'm not saying he should've scumread me for it, but maybe... express an healthy amount of suspicion towards a genuine-scummy post? I still townread him though.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Oh god... #misunderstandingslips.

I thought you were talking about me and cowbells

because I was under the spotlight and he was defending me somehow ^^ wasn't much clear. But why do you think that?

You thought I was calling RC a "noob"????????

Yes do you even play video games lol? People call 5 years players noobs...

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Spoiler: Wild Theory (wouldn't be A50 if I didn't have one)

2 Noob scums weren't happy with their tole cards??

Pls explain I don't understand this theory.

53 has the explanation.

Wait, no. It doesn't because you did not even refer to what you meant. Unless you intentionally made a double edged question...

So you read my response to you, acknowledged it was a "misunderstanding" on your part, went on to ask why I thought that way, then decided I didn't make my point clear still??? And why would you jump the gun and not wait for the person this was directed at to respond and see if they understood where I'm coming from??

VOTE: MM

This isn't coming from an inquiring town mindset at all!

Well, it does come from an inquiring town mindset!

You said you were talking about the two non-confirmers. But then I saw you had told him something else.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Oh wait, scratch that. I melted with I was thinking about at the moment of my post with what you had said, and it gave something weird that I don't remember. My bad lol

[Marshmallow Marshall]

with what*

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Also, I can state Trinity is a quite strong townread for me.

Did you mean enigma here?

Yes lol

[Marshmallow Marshall]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Marshmallow

Let's add some pressure, I don't like the replies to almost50 tbh

Hi

What don't you like? Elaborate please. Sorry for AFK btw

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Okay guys, let's go!

Before we start, I'll be selfish and establish a self meta

People tend to say I'm scummy because I "hop everywhere and get defensive" all the time. But hopping everywhere is my style and what do you expect from someone getting pressured, if it's not to get defensive for his life... If you don't like my style, okay, but fuck off with the scum reads lol.

VOTE: Enigma

Gl hf guys =)

How would you describe your current play right now MM?

My own play? I'd say I'm fishing atm. What I said is is truth worded in a scummy way (especially the part about asking to stop scumreading me lol).

It will be interesting to analyze my train later. If you guys ACTUALLY lynch me (in which case, to you), please do that analysis.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I feel like I should vote

...lol. @Oath, what are your reads? What is your read on me and my posts, specifically?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Someone please give an award to RC who got N_M to post serious stuff. That seriously deserves a medal. @N_M, reads yet? What do you think about me?

I am asking this question to everyone btw. Please answer.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

It looks like a frantic scum who’s trying to fix a slip, it might be just a townie who can’t express themselves but I don’t like how you said “unless its a double edged question...”

Also this is about your recent posts but why are you asking everyone what they think of you? How is that going to help you scum hunt
It kinda seems like a scum trying to see what people think of them but honestly I think town should be more motivated to ask about people’s reads on eachother rather than people’s reads on them

A frantic scum who's trying to fix a slip he intentionally made in the first post of the game, appearing scummy intentionally?

Because I look at how people react to my posts. As I said, I'm fishing. Waiting for people to potentially slip something is long, and can simply never happen. However, if I make intentionally scummy reads, I make myself LHF and see how people read. Don't worry, the reads on eachother will come

When everyone, or a lot of people, will have answered, I will make my list of reads.

P.S. the reason I'm doing that is that if scum try to get me down, I get my Vengekill... and murder one of them.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Oh yeah. @Ank, is this the LyLo variant or not? (in other words, does lynched town at LyLo get a Vengekill?)

[Marshmallow Marshall]

It looks like a frantic scum who’s trying to fix a slip, it might be just a townie who can’t express themselves but I don’t like how you said “unless its a double edged question...”

Also this is about your recent posts but why are you asking everyone what they think of you? How is that going to help you scum hunt
It kinda seems like a scum trying to see what people think of them but honestly I think town should be more motivated to ask about people’s reads on eachother rather than people’s reads on them

A frantic scum who's trying to fix a slip he intentionally made in the first post of the game, appearing scummy intentionally?

Because I look at how people react to my posts. As I said, I'm fishing. Waiting for people to potentially slip something is long, and can simply never happen. However, if I make intentionally scummy reads, I make myself LHF and see how people read. Don't worry, the reads on eachother will come

When everyone, or a lot of people, will have answered, I will make my list of reads.

P.S. the reason I'm doing that is that if scum try to get me down, I get my Vengekill... and murder one of them.

I didn’t say you’re making yourself appear scummy intentionally though, it isn’t necessarily intentional. If you’re saying you did it “intentionally “ then it’s a matter of whether we buy that or not.

Um okay, I still don’t get how “intentionally acting scummy” helps anyone, if you’re a townie who’s being scummy on purpose then that just doesn’t help town, it confuses them more, thats not fishing.

It’s also not fishing when you ask people what they think of you, it would be more effective if the read came from them spontaneously because then we’d see who they push for/against, not just place a read because Marshmallow was asking everyone what they thought of him.

What are you fishing for exactly? A scum read on you? A town read on you? I doubt that helps anyone identify the evils especially after you admit you’re intentionally acting scummy.

Hm, granted. But I maintain that point. Why the fuck would I do that as scum lol.

No? Acting scummy starts the discussion pretty well because people start giving reads, thoughts and all on you INSTANTLY, and it skips the useless "throw shit on the wall and see what sticks" phase, because apparently that phase is not much used on here.

The more we discuss it, the less it is useful.... so I will plead the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America on that one.

Idem. I will comment that later.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

GDI RIP VCA LOL

[Marshmallow Marshall]

GDI RIP VCA LOL

I came in expecting to see wagons, votes and unvotes... and instead I saw an unvote that brought all wagons to just one vote. Now, regardless of who gets lynched next and/or what their alignment is, at this point all VC analysis is IMPOSSIBLE, because there are no wagons to begin with. VCA is an essential tool in my scum hunting, and it's rendered useless already.

Oh, Vote Count Analysis. Sorry, I thought you just wanted to type 3 letter "words"...

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Notice that this is plurality. If nobody votes till the deadline MM gets lynched. Now what am I supposed to deduce from that? If he flips scum then I'm obviously confirmed a townie, but I very much doubt scum would let their buddy get lynched with just one vote on them, so if the day ends like this I'd be betting money on MM flipping town.

Now comes the WIFOM part: Is this what "they" want me to think? What if I unvote and someone else gets lynched and they flip town? What of MM flips red later on after my unvote? What if... (fill in as many crazy assumptions as you will)

The fate of the world... is in your hands.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

List of Reads - Marshmallow Marshall

Town

Enigma. Reacted to my opening as I expected a townie to do. That, + the meta search.

Almost50. He tries to detail his thoughts as much as possible. I get a transparent feeling from him. He keeps a doubt at everything, has the healthy suspicion of a townie.

RadiantCowbells. He searched for me, but I wonder if he tried to buddy me or not. I get a town vibe from that slot, but with a slight forced vibe to it. Townish.

Not_Mafia. He's not different from the games I've played with him, and he was town in every of them. Slight slight slight townish lean.

Null - All the players I did not name, because of AFK or lack of contribution.

Trinity. The posts he/she made were quite null, and nothing could be extracted of them. They were devoid of life, I'd say. Cautious? Also CRAPPY BIRTHDAI TO YOU

Snowman. His first and only post stroke me as scummy, and he did not post anything else since then. Scummish lean.

Mafiascum

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Ty Rei. I haven't made a mind on you yet. However, you may look at the current results of that strategy. List of reads, #126. I dislike the fact that you can't get anything global before quite late on this site. My strategy is somewhat experimental. But if you want to see my scum meta, just look at my previous games... they're all scum lol. Newbie 1868 being my first.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

List of Reads - Marshmallow Marshall

Town

Enigma. Reacted to my opening as I expected a townie to do. That, + the meta search.

Almost50. He tries to detail his thoughts as much as possible. I get a transparent feeling from him. He keeps a doubt at everything, has the healthy suspicion of a townie.

RadiantCowbells. He searched for me, but I wonder if he tried to buddy me or not. I get a town vibe from that slot, but with a slight forced vibe to it. Townish.

Not_Mafia. He's not different from the games I've played with him, and he was town in every of them. Slight slight slight townish lean.

Null - All the players I did not name, because of AFK or lack of contribution.

Trinity. The posts he/she made were quite null, and nothing could be extracted of them. They were devoid of life, I'd say. Cautious? Also CRAPPY BIRTHDAI TO YOU

Snowman. His first and only post stroke me as scummy, and he did not post anything else since then. Scummish lean.

Mafiascum

I can't quite figure out who is who/what/where with the discussion between Rei and MM. Had felt that MM scuminess was decreasing, though this recent dialogue is intriguing.

So your list is missing Rei and Oath. Rei isn't AFK or not contributing? MM, I know you mentioned you hadn't made your mind up yet, but would Rei be above or below Null (by gut, if you don't have why yet).

Above... but really really unsure. On 100, I give him 51 town points. Gut read btw.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Do you guys like vote counts

YES!!!

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Marshmallow I can’t read most of those colours.

Also why would you wish someone a crappy birthday?!

It means happy birthday... lol..... also GET A CORRECT COMPUTER FOR GOD'S SAKE! Colors are there for understanding the order of reads and having the color associated to the read of every player I put there so you can just look at it quick and know what I think. I've never seen anyone tell me I was too clear with my colors...

[Marshmallow Marshall]

VOTE: NM

this is the lynch today unless we want to lynch someone else and leash the venge there.

Care to elaborate?

Snore

Care to defend yourself?

we're using the full 14 days though

Of course.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

you actually lynch the fourth scummiest

We don't want to get rid of our obvtowns though. We need people to lead town.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

MM why am I high town if you thought I was forced and potentially buddying you?
that description really doesn't sound like someone you're townreading

That feeling is not hard, just a slight thought I have. You come to me as more townish than anything. You're not HIGH town though. Just townish.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

idk generally scum don't -all- lurk generally when you get a lurker scumteam there's one scum in the actives serving as the face
i would say there's probably 2 scum lurking in {nm/iceman/trinity/oath} and one scum in the active players
kind of leaning towards MM because of various reasons

Well, you're wrong ^^ I'm town.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

fourth scummiest isn't obvtown...?

Based on who's list, though? 4th scummiest is usually tied with other scumreads, or simply non-existant.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I'm going off now, it's EARLY lol I gotta sleep. Cya

[Marshmallow Marshall]

we're using the full 14 days though

Why is it a given that we need to use the full 14 days? Gives scum more time to create distractions.

Tbh, I agree with you... Since scum have a perma chat, they can plan during day. It's not like normal setups where D1 is the 14 first days where scum don't have any coordination.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

because you want the highest odds of a townflip on a person that you want dead before start of day 3

Why do you want that? I want to make sure of your point.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I believe it could mess with the lynches and the kills though. Reads often are different, and the Vengekill could be on someone Town would want alive.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Hey hey hey! My terribly active game on other site (1000 posts a day, 48h days...) is over, so I will probably be more active as from now. Just saying = ) I haven't been here much, apologies for that.

Also, I asked people for reads on me. I'd like them to come before EoD...

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I agree with N_M

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Hey hey hey! My terribly active game on other site (1000 posts a day, 48h days...) is over, so I will probably be more active as from now. Just saying = ) I haven't been here much, apologies for that.

Also, I asked people for reads on me. I'd like them to come before EoD...

I’m reading you as town.

Elaborate please.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Slightly better feels.about her two posts than anything from the others

Wtf, I just re-read the thread and found out that I had missed that post... Do you mean that you townread someone for saying hi? XD

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Tomorrow I'll explain y'all the reasons of my strategy. If you're town, you should probably convince us you are. And if you're scum, you should try to lie!

[Marshmallow Marshall]

It was a very strange vote on me

You're a turd.... thought that was self explanatory?

...as a reason to vote someone?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

re

You read N_M in the same way that you read Almost50??

[Marshmallow Marshall]

So this is my first veng kill game. Right not I feel a pretty solid read on Oath as being scum. So the questions I have are below.

1. Do we lynch like a normal game? RC kind of suggested that we do not do this and we lynch the next scummiest person.
2. How do we push someone to get more solid reads based on my first question? Do we just assume they are scum and pressure the second scummiest? That way if the second scummiest flips town they have a scum target they can hit for sure?


Sorry, the lynch dynamics in this game setup are just different and I'm trying to get a grasp of them.

I've thought about it last night. Every single time I played a game where people tried to put up a new voting way that would go better with the setup and was not dicted by setup, town lost. Every time. It draws too much attention, and causes a shitstorm if IIOA. Scum hunt only starts on D2, usually, and is low. D3 is like D1 if noone had asked anything. So I believe the "vote scummiest person and push that person", aka the good ol' way, is what we should do.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Hey guyz. Checking in. I'm currently driving straight from Utah to.South Carolina with no stops...... so I'm a bit tired.


With that being said I think I might be able to slightly clear the clouds from my head.

I'm torn. I want to vote RC cause he's a turd but I also want to vote Trinity cause I just done playing a game with them and it seems like a good idea..... what to do.


VOTE: RC

Can you clarify the trinity part? Why does it seem like a good idea?
And what made you go with RC over trinity afterall

It was an RVS vote and opener. I've played with trinity in the past and was just saying HI I SEE YOU. Same thing with RC but, that game was a toxic drama fest so.... I called him a turd and voted him.

Why does it strike you as odd that I would post this? Seems a weird thing to latch on to but, several people did.

For me, it is somehow a "fake confusion" from you. Idk, it doesn't feel genuine, natural.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Hey guyz. Checking in. I'm currently driving straight from Utah to.South Carolina with no stops...... so I'm a bit tired.


With that being said I think I might be able to slightly clear the clouds from my head.

I'm torn. I want to vote RC cause he's a turd but I also want to vote Trinity cause I just done playing a game with them and it seems like a good idea..... what to do.


VOTE: RC

Can you clarify the trinity part? Why does it seem like a good idea?
And what made you go with RC over trinity afterall

It was an RVS vote and opener. I've played with trinity in the past and was just saying HI I SEE YOU. Same thing with RC but, that game was a toxic drama fest so.... I called him a turd and voted him.

Why does it strike you as odd that I would post this? Seems a weird thing to latch on to but, several people did.

For me, it is somehow a "fake confusion" from you. Idk, it doesn't feel genuine, natural.

Of course it's not genuine/natural it's an RVS vote. It's completely contrived and pulled out of one's butt.

I mean even for a RVS vote, it felt forced.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I don't support a lynch on Marshmallow atm.
To be honest, don't like either of the two wagons atm (and my vote is on a wagon).

Leashing the vengekills is problematic. It ruins later VCA and lets scum hide in the shadow whilst town do the dirty work. Plus as N_M says, vengekills aren't a democracy and there is no way to see it through.

Ideally, we have two competing wagons for probable scum - where the targets are both voting for each other. Then they can vengekill each other Then we can come up with two new competing wagons for top two for the next day (with the added knowledge post-flip) and repeat.

There are probably about three people I wouldn't mind being one of the two wagons, though will hold onto that for now since we still have some time to see where everyone else is heading.

Every single approach you may come up with (regarding Venge kills) is subject to WIFOM manipulation.

2 wagons on 2 townies = to town deaths
1 wagon on scum and one on town leading to town lynch is the only one that works (but we won't know that before the two flip)
1 wagon on scum and one on town leading to scum lynch = scum can decide to kill the townie (same as above) or kill someone else, leading us to believe the other wagon was on another scum instead
2 wagons on scum = scum will kill someone else (same as above)

The last 2 mean that we don't really know if the one that didn't get lynched and didn't get vigged is town or scum, because once we see the lynched flip we may assume they spared a partner, but then maybe tha's exactly what they wanted us to believe and we won't be able to tell until the other is flipped.

So, the only way this works is if we have a scum wagon vs a town wagon and then we lynch the townie of them.

Now RC suggested lynching 4th scummiest person. If that flips town they take the scummiest person with them = higher probability of hitting scum

If they flip scum they still take the scummiest (good for us, as it works as a town Vig for scummy slots) or picks someone globally TR'd which keeps us with the scummier players to lynch.

I haven't really thought it out (i.e. didn't put my head into all possibilities and probabilities) but on face value I fancy RC's approach more (although I will follow whatever the majority decides because I don't really have a magical solution that is 100% guaranteed to work)

You're pretty right. The only way of lynching that is not the normal one that I would support is, MAYBE, RC's. But I still believe we should stick to lynch the scummiest.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Right now, I have doubts on N_M. He actually contributed, which is against his town meta... I've never seen him play scum, but does someone know if he acts more contributive as town or scum, or if it's NAI?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Well, half of N_M's posts were about ISP term, but he actually expressed a legitimate concern about leashing vengekills, which is 100% right. He doesn't feel like the previous games I played with him. Unless it's because I'm town now o.0

[Marshmallow Marshall]

/shrug

I personally like oath, maybe that biases me.

Hey.
I like you too.


Gut reads one of Rei/Marshmallow is scum for suresies

So VOTE: Rei

What is that supposed to mean?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

VOTE: Oath

If we are not using any strategy to votes/veng kills then I think we need to put pressure on Oath. Only three posts and zero content.

@Oath what are your reads? What do you think of the current game state?

I agree. VOTE: Oath Btw you have gained town points for your stream of posts. I'll post another list of reads tomorrow... with simple colors

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Why oath over NM?

Why N_M over Oath? Why this post?? Potential association here (not meaning I don't townread you)

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Why oath over NM?

It's going to seem shallow...... but post count.

They are pretty much equal as far as how I'm reading them.

Spoiler: image

This actually reads as strong town because no scum would risk such a weird read that won't get anyone lynched on D1 lol.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

pretty sure you're both scum and hopping on the oath wagon to get a non-NM lynch through

This makes sense, but I have the feeling it's too easy... They are however all my scummish reads, and it would fit....

[Marshmallow Marshall]

so I'll just assume trinity's town even if that's not fully supported, I think I'll figure it out
RC's town
enigma's town

Don't have a super strong reason to townread Oath but suspect they're town by wagon composition

iffy on iceman but their entrance was okay I guess
A50 I think is sliightly above rand to be town? bu

that leaves

MM
NM
Rei

VOTE: N_M. L-1

[Marshmallow Marshall]

so I'll just assume trinity's town even if that's not fully supported, I think I'll figure it out
RC's town
enigma's town

Don't have a super strong reason to townread Oath but suspect they're town by wagon composition

iffy on iceman but their entrance was okay I guess
A50 I think is sliightly above rand to be town? bu

that leaves

MM
NM
Rei

Why is Rei scummy to you?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Spoiler: fat quote

okay so NM/MM is two scum

Pretty sure keerigan is town

Why did you vote him enigma

Because his first post is to set up a defence for when he gets accused later in game
tbh woulda done it regardless of his RV

"but guayyys im behaving scummy not because im scum but but but because its how i always play"

How are you so sure he is town already from just one post?

he's only played a few games, have a look at his flips?

VOTE: Not_Mafia

0 mention of NM, then votes him. RVS, sure, but high equity to be a SvS interaction. He never addresses it again.

[quote\]However, the fact that he searched for me is quite townish... but again, we must not read for activity

This is pretty fucking strange: why would I have bothered to search for him. This isn't a question of reading for activity, it's a question of the fact that it's something I have literally no motivation to do as scum besides to fake my towngame.
writing it off as activity is scum handwaving a reason to townread me.

Her vote on NM seems a bit empty
I don't see her posting anything else either
trying to get her to engage more I guess

N_M neither though ^^

next mention of N_M and it implies that NM is empty and not engaging but makes no effort to follow it up

Wait, no. It doesn't because you did not even refer to what you meant. Unless you intentionally made a double edged question...

this is still ick

Why I townread RC but wonder if he didn't try to buddy me? Because he's right, but he saw only a half of the post (As did Enigma, but I do not believe it has a strong scum use). He said it looked like genuine anger, and he's right, because it took a long long time on my homesite for people to accept my style, even as town. However, I worded that in a so scummy way that I thought he would at least MENTION it was scummy. Idk, I'm not saying he should've scumread me for it, but maybe... express an healthy amount of suspicion towards a genuine-scummy post? I still townread him though.

this is again awful
if he thinks that he was genuinely scummy and that I called him scum regardless then he should have a problem with that. lack of healthy amount of suspicion towards a genuinely scummy post is something you should be worried about it
this is again another part where the way he talks about his read on me should be a scumread but he ends up saying that he townreads me in spite of it

NM comes in, continues to do absolutely nothing

Someone please give an award to RC who got N_M to post serious stuff. That seriously deserves a medal. @N_M, reads yet? What do you think about me?

I am asking this question to everyone btw. Please answer.

this is a really bad post, way he singles out nm feels kind of bad but the extending it to everyone gives definite gut vibes that he's trying to not make NM look different in his ISO from other people

also really the whole 'I was intentionally scummy' makes a lot more sense as scum who just thinks that they were scummy and is repeatedly trying to make an excuse for it than as town who was intentionally acting scummy for reasons that make no sense

Not_Mafia. He's not different from the games I've played with him, and he was town in every of them. Slight slight slight townish lean.

townread on NM is cmoplete garbage.

In post 139, Not_Mafia wrote:
Snore
Care to defend yourself?

weird post

+

why is he asking someone that he supposedly townreads to defend themselves?

Tbh, I agree with you... Since scum have a perma chat, they can plan during day. It's not like normal setups where D1 is the 14 first days where scum don't have any coordination.

I think the odds of him actually making this post as town are super super low, I don't think newbies generally think a lot about hwether scum have daychat or not

You can't leash someone when there's no consequences to them not following through with the plan

I agree with N_M

again the setting up venge chains order is super, super, super protown and increases town equity a ridiculous amount
who are the two people in this game who try to discourage us from setting up venge chains so that we can prevent scum from getting nightkills? these two.

Tomorrow I'll explain y'all the reasons of my strategy. If you're town, you should probably convince us you are. And if you're scum, you should try to lie!

I can't put anything to this that anyone would understand but I think this post is extremely scum indicative

re

You read N_M in the same way that you read Almost50??

what's with the focus on the NM read? Why does NM come up so disproporitonately often for someone who is barely in the game

Right now, I have doubts on N_M. He actually contributed, which is against his town meta... I've never seen him play scum, but does someone know if he acts more contributive as town or scum, or if it's NAI?

and again another terribly svs interaction: his rationale is basically that NM is scummy because they actually posted but instead of following up on that he immediately goes to other people to try to get them to dissuade him

Well, half of N_M's posts were about ISP term, but he actually expressed a legitimate concern about leashing vengekills, which is 100% right. He doesn't feel like the previous games I played with him. Unless it's because I'm town now o.0

yeah ok

VOTE: Oath

If we are not using any strategy to votes/veng kills then I think we need to put pressure on Oath. Only three posts and zero content.

@Oath what are your reads? What do you think of the current game state?

I agree. VOTE: Oath Btw you have gained town points for your stream of posts. I'll post another list of reads tomorrow... with simple colors

Why oath over NM?

Why N_M over Oath? Why this post?? Potential association here (not meaning I don't townread you)

votes the counterwagon to NM despite having just claimed NM as a scumread then tries to call me out for me asking him why he voted oath instead of answering[/quote]

Tunneling D1 is bad... I'm in for a N_M lynch, and honestly townread you. But this is utter BULLSHIT lol. My point still stands. We should not lynch the #########scummiest player. Just lynch the guy you scumread the most and say who you think that player could be teamed with. The lynched player will then vengekill the supposed teammate. That does not affect the lynch process effectivness while giving us a small buff.

I believe Trinity could be scum with N_M. Maybe Iceman, Oath. A50 too.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

VOTE: Trinity

Oh wait, N_M is at L-2, not L-1.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I demand

a trial by combat

N_M to be put at L-1.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

On my homesite, we have a similar guy... He's nice, but horribly rude and useless in-game when he's town. He only wants to survive, but doesn't help town. Maybe there's a similar thing with these two... N_M ACTUALLY said something about the game. And the guy on my site only contributes minimally when he's scum it's why I started suspecting N_M.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

the point of his play is to get the venge off on me and you're enabling it by not lynching someone else and having them venge him.

What makes you think that? I don't see the train of thoughts behind this statement.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

we're using the full 14 days though

Why is it a given that we need to use the full 14 days? Gives scum more time to create distractions.

But it also gives town more time to strategize and talk through the lynch.
The more info we get in this day phase the more helpful it will be later when we see who pushed for who and stuff like that.

Marshmallow I can’t read most of those colours.

Also why would you wish someone a crappy birthday?!

It means happy birthday... lol..... also GET A CORRECT COMPUTER FOR GOD'S SAKE! Colors are there for understanding the order of reads and having the color associated to the read of every player I put there so you can just look at it quick and know what I think. I've never seen anyone tell me I was too clear with my colors...

Ok, even though you’re pretty rude, I ‘m town reading you. If you were mafia I don’t think you’d be this rude. I also don’t think you would be putting so much effort in to your reads (even though i can’t read most of them because of the colours).

You'd be surprised but rudeness isn't a reason to think someone is scum or town imo

Hey guyz. Checking in. I'm currently driving straight from Utah to.South Carolina with no stops...... so I'm a bit tired.


With that being said I think I might be able to slightly clear the clouds from my head.

I'm torn. I want to vote RC cause he's a turd but I also want to vote Trinity cause I just done playing a game with them and it seems like a good idea..... what to do.


VOTE: RC

Can you clarify the trinity part? Why does it seem like a good idea?
And what made you go with RC over trinity afterall

It was an RVS vote and opener. I've played with trinity in the past and was just saying HI I SEE YOU. Same thing with RC but, that game was a toxic drama fest so.... I called him a turd and voted him.

Why does it strike you as odd that I would post this? Seems a weird thing to latch on to but, several people did.

The way you worded it made me think it was more than RVS, also you mentioned them both but decided to vote trinity so I just wanted to know why you picked him over her

Info =/= day lenght. However, I expected the game to go faster than that. I retract my support to a midday lynch for this reason.

I wasn't even trying to be rude, so whatever you think about it see it as NAI Trinity was rude with my colors though =(

I agree with the last statement. However, his last posts come off as town to me.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

btw i still think you're scum Mr. Marshmallow

Then you're wrong ^^ I'm not able to form a read on you correctly yet. And it annoys me.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

What I was trying to ask @Marshmallow

I get why you may suspect trinity or iceman but weren't you townreading A50?
If i remember correctly I was more suspicious to you than A50 too, so why dont you think i could be with NM?

Lol that post

I

was

. I believe he just ran away with the townread. COME BACK A50!

Spoiler: COME BACK!!!!

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S13mP_pfEc[/youtube]

As I just said, I don't know how to read you. And I admit I had cough cough forgot cough that you exist.... you could very well be paired with N_M.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Fail...

[Marshmallow Marshall]

the point of his play is to get the venge off on me and you're enabling it by not lynching someone else and having them venge him.

What makes you think that? I don't see the train of thoughts behind this statement.

NM is doing nothing to make sur he gets the vengekill and then gets to remove me r om the game and play 2v5

He NEVER does anything. Plus, I don't see the scum benefit of that. Actually... VOTE: Rei I believe there should at least be 1 pressure vote on that slot. I'm not going to lynch N_M for this exact reason: his play makes no sense as scum.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Midday lynch isn't bad when everyone has said all they have, but on d1 especially i kinda prefer full day
especially a slow game game like this

Also even if you can't read me, I'd think you would sus me more over a townread of yours?

Reads are not stuck there. My reads change a lot, and if someone stops posting when he got a town read from the general consensus, his townread will decay.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

the point of his play is to get the venge off on me and you're enabling it by not lynching someone else and having them venge him.

What makes you think that? I don't see the train of thoughts behind this statement.

NM is doing nothing to make sur he gets the vengekill and then gets to remove me r om the game and play 2v5

He NEVER does anything. Plus, I don't see the scum benefit of that. Actually... VOTE: Rei I believe there should at least be 1 pressure vote on that slot. I'm not going to lynch N_M for this exact reason: his play makes no sense as scum.

So what's my vote? CHOPPED LIVER?!

No offense meant to you, you seem nice... but YES, EXACTLY. Your vote means absolutely nothing because your slot means absolutely nothing atm. Contribute. EXIST WITH US!

[Marshmallow Marshall]

the point of his play is to get the venge off on me and you're enabling it by not lynching someone else and having them venge him.

What makes you think that? I don't see the train of thoughts behind this statement.

NM is doing nothing to make sur he gets the vengekill and then gets to remove me r om the game and play 2v5

He NEVER does anything. Plus, I don't see the scum benefit of that. Actually... VOTE: Rei I believe there should at least be 1 pressure vote on that slot. I'm not going to lynch N_M for this exact reason: his play makes no sense as scum.

dude... when RC says you're partners with NM you vote NM
And when I suspect you for not suspecting me you vote me

I'm sorry but you're looking extremely forced to me atm

Also about NM, if he's really mafia who wants to get the vengkill then thats exactly what he would be doing: nothing
I kinda disagree that NM never does anything, it's true he doesn't talk much but when he's town his few reads are actually on point, he's quite sharp
Someone told me that NM is read from his votes and suses, so I think we'll be more sure about him once we get some flips, but I'm kinda with RC on not lynching him now

Nice, I'm naturally forced

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Also, noted about N_M. I'm not going to lynch him because the play doesn't make sense as scum, I said.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Sort of lost here with the whole venge kill thing.

Every person who gets lynched gets to kill someone.

If we lynch mafia then they get two kills? Their night kill plus the venge? Does this mean that if we lynch mafia they can then kill two of us?

If we lynch town then they get a venge kill and mafia gets one night kill. So the town that was lynched would try to hit the scummiest and get a scum?

Is that the reason we dont want to lynch the scummiest? Because that would give them two kills?

Kind of lost here. You all said to vote like it's a normal game but now I'm second guessing that.

UNVOTE:

For now until I can figure this out. Oath and NM are top of my list as possible scum. They need to be pressured somehow. Give us a read or something.

Hm, ok. This is a nightless, so there is NO mafia factional kill. Aka we only lynch, vengekill, then it's another day. Vengekill is mandatory (at least that's how I understand the setup). According to host, this is NOT the LyLo variant (see setup).

[Marshmallow Marshall]

+townpoints to ice for backing off to rethink. I don't see the point of doing that as scum.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Ok, after a reread, I'm could do a skip on a NM/MM lynch today. Outside of the NM/MM association, I sorta felt MM was town earlier so we can revisit that day 2.

Could do a Trinity lynch. Would much prefer Oath to get vengekilled, though lynchable also.

Slightly cautious that Rei and A50 have escaped scrutiny today as well.

I believe we should vengekill the "permanull reads" if we aren't sure on our scumreads. I agree with you on the two last paragraphs.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

We will lose a townie regardless by start of D2 ... just hopefully not two townies
We could try to convince a mislynched townie to act according to a strategy, but also a mislynched townie may be super jaded and not care about what everyone has to say and can do as they wish (as N_M mentioned earlier)

Exactly. Strategizing on the vengekill's target costs nothing. However, changing the way we're lynching comes at the cost of scum hunting effectiveness. I have experienced this in my last game, where we had to elect a President (Basically give 3 votes to someone) on D1, with no lynch. 0 scum hunting by the majority of players, we got destroyed hardcore with 1 scum death at LyLo (but we still lost because of other stuff). So to get back to the game, changing the way we're voting drastically is a bad idea. However, I understand that a townie can want to optimize the behavior of the Town. It's why I actually give town points to RC for that.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I mean..... town wins together so it would be dumb to do your own thing.

Dumb people is a thing

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Vote Count 1.8

[2]

Not_Mafia

- TrinityNZ, Enigma,

(L-2)

[2]

Marshmallow Marshall

- Almost50, Rei

(L-2)

[2]

Rei

- Oath, Marshmallow Marshall

(L-2)

[1]

Oath

- Not_Mafia
[1]

TrinityNZ

- RadiantCowbells
Almost50 -
Enigma -
IcemanCh -
RadiantCowbells -


Not Voting (1): IcemanCh

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is (expired on 2018-07-24 11:30:00) from now, or July 24th, 10:30 AM CST (GMT-6).

Prodding: N/A
Replacing: N/A

2 votes + L-2 = 4 votes to lynch, however it is 5 votes to lynch. Or am I confused? I AM CONFUSED!!!!

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I like Enigma
I don't like Ice - I genuinely do not feel like understanding how this game works is that hard

I'd go Rei/Ice/Marsh possible scum team

Rei + me? Explain please, I do not see how our interactions could be interpreted as scum to scum.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I am totally lost. Anybody want to lend me a helping hand?

Lost on what? What do you think about Iceman and Trinity btw?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Oath, I'd like to know: are you 100% new to Forum Mafia?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Hm, ok. This is either a town getting confused and maybe slightly overgamed, which I believe, or a scum trying to fake confusion to back off and erase his previous actions. I think you're town now, tbh.

Also, I had promised reads and all, and didn't give them, sorry lol. I'll give them, but I'm kinda DISAPPOINTED in you all... Noone was really involved in the little game I had set up! Nothing bad could get out of it. I'll write that list of reads as soon as I can.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Hm, ok. This is either a town getting confused and maybe slightly overgamed, which I believe, or a scum trying to fake confusion to back off and erase his previous actions. I think you're town now, tbh.

Also, I had promised reads and all, and didn't give them, sorry lol. I'll give them, but I'm kinda DISAPPOINTED in you all... Noone was really involved in the little game I had set up! Nothing bad could get out of it. I'll write that list of reads as soon as I can.

P.S. the little game was to be LHF and see what everyone would say about it. I don't remember who said it wasn't great to ask for reads on me, but that player was right; however, noone was doing anything.... This game is getting boring, tbh. Noone posts, and all my attempts to get people started on something are failing horribly. Is that the great Mafiascum??? I don't believe it. GET TO THE GAME AND CONTRIBUTE, FOR GOD'S SAKE. I get that real life happens, but know that I had a game with 500-1000 posts by IRL day, and that I work... and that was at start of this game. There's always some time to pop in and give your thoughts. Take these few minutes, for the respect of the game and its players. I know I'm being rude this game, but it's my "normal self". I'm just trying to get people to do something. So please, come with us! Thank you

[Marshmallow Marshall]

MM in you are in mini game!! I like this pace haha, I read once an evening and post. Go join the large themes and you'll have 100+ pages of fun (well not fun for me, maybe fun for you).

Could do a Trinity lynch. Would much prefer Oath to get vengekilled, though lynchable also.

Could be convinced for A50 and Rei as well.

People I don't want to see lynched or shot today: NM, M_M, Iceman, RC

What you call a mini game is the normal population of the games I'm talking about though...

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Oath, I'd like to know: are you 100% new to Forum Mafia?

No, but I did just come out of retirement and jumped into 6 games.

Oh lol, okay. I guess that explains a bit

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Oath, I'd like to know: are you 100% new to Forum Mafia?

No, but I did just come out of retirement and jumped into 6 games.

Oh lol, okay. I guess that explains a bit

What exactly does it explain?

The fact that you're inactive.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

VOTE: Trinity

Hey Enigma, what’s the reason for the vote on me?

VOTE: Trinity

I don't have a reason

not to

at this point. I don't think MM is scum anymore.

I can get on this wagon, tbh. Usually, people having 0 reasons NOT to lynch them, out of someone being 100% AFK, are scum. I'll see that clsoe to EoD.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Well that didn't take long lol. Here is my reads and where I"m currently at.

Rei - Town -

Pretty obvious.

RadiantCowbells - Slight Town - Good content and reads on everyone. Fairly consistent in his position.
Enigma - Slight Town - Has a lot of posts but honestly not a lot of content. I suspect town but, there's just not much to go on.
MarshMallow - Nuetral - A TON of content. Almost to much. Seems to be putting a show. Lots of posting, postulating, and moving about but not much productivity. I'm skeptical of town but, that might just be the cynic in me getting in the way. It just seems to be over the top.
Almost 50 - Nuetral - I want to lean town but, the confusion seems fake. Giving the benefit of the doubt and shoving the cynic aside I'm going to say Nuetral for now.
TrinityNZ - Scum Lean - I've seen her other games. Kind of all over the place when she's on her own. She seems slightly more together in this game. I'm wondering if it's because of being coached in the background.
Not_Mafia - Scum - Zero content. At this point has to be scum. Can't figure out any reason for the absolute radio silence.
Oath - Scum - Same as NM

What?? Elaborate please, I don't see how he's obvtown at all.

Not that many posts from Enigma.
MM - What do you mean about a ton of content but no productivity? How do you describe "productivity" in a nightless setup without any TPR way to confirm people? What do you expect to be the "good town play"? Not attacking you there, but wanting to understand your views.
A50 - Rip autocorrect, nuetral? personally I believe he is not faking the confusion. He could still be scum AND confused though ^^ not having read the game is not a town tell.
What do you think about Trinity's content?
I honestly believe Not_Mafia is town... it's his meta. He has done absolutely nothing but blank votes in the two games I played with him (and some image shitposts too), but was town. Surprisingly, he has good reads, apparently. He just won't post them. Of course, this is a META read, and should be seen as such... it is not enough to establish that someone is innocent or guilty.
Oath said he's in 6 games at once. It's a terrible idea to do that if you don't have time to contribute, but heh. What makes me think he might be town is that scum team is very rarely 100% lurkers.

List of reads, part 1

[Marshmallow Marshall]

List of reads, part 2 (My own reads worded by myself, not quotes & comments)

Town

because green = town

Enigma.

He screams town to me, I feel genuine scumhunting coming from that slot, and the reaction to my opener post was very town-like.

Iceman.

He was scummy at the beggining, but his posts show someone really trying to understand the game and help town.

Townish

Not_Mafia.

I know this will be seen as weird by most people, but I believe he is town a lot. However, that read is mainly based on meta, therefore he cannot go higher than townish in my mind.

RadiantCowbells.

He wanted to strategize on the lynches, which is pro-town. His general behavior is pro-town. However, I have a doubt on him, mainly gut, and the fact that he potentially tried to buddy me at start. Logically, he's town, but I have a doubt.

Null-neutral

- Rei, Oath.

A50.

I don't like the slot. We would really need you in, sir.

Trinity.

Is not contributing, but posts. In other words, he's active but not useful to town. I think someone said he usually was all over the place as town; we are not seeing that here.

Mafiascum

[Marshmallow Marshall]

List of reads, part 2 (My own reads worded by myself, not quotes & comments)

Town

because green = town

Enigma.

He screams town to me, I feel genuine scumhunting coming from that slot, and the reaction to my opener post was very town-like.

Iceman.

He was scummy at the beggining, but his posts show someone really trying to understand the game and help town.

Townish

Not_Mafia.

I know this will be seen as weird by most people, but I believe he is town a lot. However, that read is mainly based on meta, therefore he cannot go higher than townish in my mind.

RadiantCowbells.

He wanted to strategize on the lynches, which is pro-town. His general behavior is pro-town. However, I have a doubt on him, mainly gut, and the fact that he potentially tried to buddy me at start. Logically, he's town, but I have a doubt.

Null-neutral

- Rei, Oath.

A50.

I don't like the slot. We would really need you in, sir.

Trinity.

Is not contributing, but posts. In other words, he's active but not useful to town. I think someone said he usually was all over the place as town; we are not seeing that here.

Mafiascum

WARNING: MOONLOGIC ALERT! Everybody take cover!

I want to adopt this readlist for the execution of RC's -plan (with my own modification).

Let's lynch Trinity. They are instructed to vengekill me. If Trinity is green she takes out the "next scummiest slot" thus acting like a town vig.

If she's scum, she will be faced with a dilemma. Venging me takes away an almost guaranteed mislynch (before the flip), but the not venging me (for WIFOM) doesn't work the way it should because it's obvious we're not scum together. So, I am betting on Trinity venging me either way and that way we either lose 1 scum for 1 town (to our benefit) or 2 townies who are being terrible at obv!towning (not ideal, but it removes the confusion and forces everyone to reevaluate their reads).

The only downside is if Trinity is a townie we are in LyLo already by D2, but then that is very much the case in 6/9 * 5/8 = 30/72 i.e. 41.66% assuming random lynches/venges, so very much expected in this setup anyway.

I can agree with this.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I can agree with this.

Your vote is needed for the lynch to go though.

4 days, 19 hours and 31 minutes. No haste needed.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Yes, Trinity needs to confirm sticking to the plan. I dunno how to deal with it after the flip though. It needs to be dealt with now because upon the flip she is supposed to take someone with her already.

TBH I don’t understand this ‘plan’ and I haven’t seen much support for it. What does everyone else think?

Scummmmyyyyyyy VOTE: TrinityNZ sounds like a scum trying to see if he has a chance to escape from that plan.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Yes, Trinity needs to confirm sticking to the plan. I dunno how to deal with it after the flip though. It needs to be dealt with now because upon the flip she is supposed to take someone with her already.

TBH I don’t understand this ‘plan’ and I haven’t seen much support for it. What does everyone else think?

What don't you understand? I'm offering myself as your vengekill target. If we both flip town the rest of players are forced to reevaluate their reads. If one of us flips scum they can carry on accordingly. I obviously know my own alignment, but it seems like I'm failing to show it, so it would be good for the town to remove me (and the same applies to you regardless of your alignment).

Tbh, your plan is a 100% good for town and doesn't profit to scum if you're one... You are 99% confirmed town in my eyes now. Flipflop Inc.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I don't want to Lynch Trinity

I'll vote basically anyone else

She gutreads town to me

And I don't have a whole lot of people I'm actually townreading in this lobby

Did you read A50's plan? It literally has 0 downsides.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Actually, I've also been feeling less in favour of a Trinity vote following her last few posts. I feel she responded well to the pressure, and demonstrated some town traits to keep around for a bit longer.
To be honest, feeling more of an Oath or Rei lynch today - where ideally they both kill each other. Get rid of lurkers and don't have to deal with them (and their perhaps reluctance to cooperate if town) in D2.

UNVOTE:

I believe there's something to do with Rei. Not Oath. If we are going for that, Oath shall fall (and if town, vengekill Rei).

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Nah my venge kill is most definitely on Marshmallow. Granted, I still haven't done my re-read. But my gut hates that guy.

VOTE: Trinity stick to this plan then. Sorry but I don't like dying

[Marshmallow Marshall]

so you think that someone is scum, but they threaten to vengekill you

now they're scum so they'd be making whatever the highest equity play is anyway

but you don't want to lynch them because they're going to venge you, IF they're town?

I don't think he's scum. He's null, and I'm not ready to sacrifice my life for a null read ;-; I'll do it if it's really needed to have a lynch between trinity and oath, for it is our best bet.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Nah my venge kill is most definitely on Marshmallow. Granted, I still haven't done my re-read. But my gut hates that guy.

VOTE: Trinity stick to this plan then. Sorry but I don't like dying

Hey guys. Been super busy at work. Posting when I can. I've been keeping up on reading and I find this to be..... a bad post.

I agree with A50s plan. I'm not sure that I see much downside to it. I'm not sure how things stack up now though and want to just make sure we're on the right path. I suspect Trinity but, I think I'm starting to suspect MM more.

Worst thing we could do is lose two townies.

UNVOTE:


I'll replace my vote later today after I've looked at a few things.

Exactly

. I'm town, and I do not sr Oath enough to perform a lynch on him. I am good with him going down to clear a nullread that might be, potentially, scum. But at the cost of my life if he's town, which is probably at the cost of the game too? No thanks. And YES, I know this can have the obvious scum intent of wanting to stay alive. But it's a town intent too when it'd cause LyLo on D2 ^^

Going out for a while. We still have 3 days. My lynch pool is [Rei, Trinity, Oath].

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Nah my venge kill is most definitely on Marshmallow. Granted, I still haven't done my re-read. But my gut hates that guy.

VOTE: Trinity stick to this plan then. Sorry but I don't like dying

Hey guys. Been super busy at work. Posting when I can. I've been keeping up on reading and I find this to be..... a bad post.

I agree with A50s plan. I'm not sure that I see much downside to it. I'm not sure how things stack up now though and want to just make sure we're on the right path. I suspect Trinity but, I think I'm starting to suspect MM more.

Worst thing we could do is lose two townies.

UNVOTE:


I'll replace my vote later today after I've looked at a few things.

Exactly

. I'm town, and I do not sr Oath enough to perform a lynch on him. I am good with him going down to clear a nullread that might be, potentially, scum. But at the cost of my life if he's town, which is probably at the cost of the game too? No thanks. And YES, I know this can have the obvious scum intent of wanting to stay alive. But it's a town intent too when it'd cause LyLo on D2 ^^

Going out for a while. We still have 3 days. My lynch pool is [Rei, Trinity, Oath].

So what's the difference between a Trinity lynch leading to my death by venge and an Oath lynch leading to your death by venge? I mean, from where I stand I know I'm town too.

My plan was based on common reads. I propose we take out the

globally

scummiest 2 players because

even if both flip town

that'd still be a step ahead for the rest of us (the 4 that are still alive). Self-preservation in this setup is likely to take us down (and we all have the same role anyway)

If Trinity was going to kill you, your point is right. However, he said he was going to vengekill N_M. I like the pressure it puts on the slot

I'm not a common scum read, at least I don't believe to be.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

@trinity All you need to say is that you'll venge MM and he'll no longer want to lynch. Wierd right?

Nyet you are wrong here. But if he's town, I would really ask him to keep the PRESSURE on N_M. We NEED more information from this slot.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

@trinity All you need to say is that you'll venge MM and he'll no longer want to lynch. Wierd right?

Nyet you are wrong here. But if he's town, I would really ask him to keep the PRESSURE on N_M. We NEED more information from this slot.

Trinity is a she

Oh crap lol.... sorry I must seem really stupid, rude and retarded this game...

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Actually you guys should lynch me because I wanna kill someone.

And by that I mean I want to kill someone without having to convince you all to agree with me.

And by that I mean I wish I was scum.

But also lynch me.

A very convincing way to make me not want to lynch you

[Marshmallow Marshall]

To be honest, players like N_M for me are lynch bait post-D1. If he is town, he generally has good reads ... once you get over his terrible and awful style of communication.

If we realise we can't read him further into the game, we lynch/venge him.

He has done hardly anything this game so far, what makes you think he’ll change in D2? I think we should get rid of him now, as he’s either (1) scum or (2) of no use.

Because APPARENTLY he has great reads. I've never seen them.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Great is an exaggeration

Well, you showed us NON-EXISTANT reads...

[Marshmallow Marshall]

To be honest, players like N_M for me are lynch bait post-D1. If he is town, he generally has good reads ... once you get over his terrible and awful style of communication.

If we realise we can't read him further into the game, we lynch/venge him.

He has done hardly anything this game so far, what makes you think he’ll change in D2? I think we should get rid of him now, as he’s either (1) scum or (2) of no use.

He's done exactly zero. He's either scum or anti-town. Leave the active contributing town players here.

This, I agree. I'm not lynching him today, but he's definetly useless at this point.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I must seem really stupid, rude and retarded this game...

"must" isn't the correct term here. You're doing it by your own choice.

P.S. This was intended to be a

friendly pole in the nose

. Absolutely no offense intended.

Ik lol, it's my own fault if I decided to roll with self meta despite it being labeled as scummy ^^ this site's meta is really walled-in, hard to do any strategy that is not written somewhere....

[Marshmallow Marshall]

N_M and RC is probably TvS

VOTE: Rei

This makes no sense? You state it's TvS then vote someone else??

N_M and RC is probably TvS

Vote RC with me then

N_M and RC is probably TvS

Vote RC with me then

How do I know your not mafia?

HMMMMMMMMMMM......... I had a strange gut read on RC at beginning, he got a worldwide townread and disappeared.... HMMMMMMMMM....................... I'm tempted to actually follow N_M on that one

[Marshmallow Marshall]

RC was was scum, super shocked, mucho wow

GSDGSDFGHSDHRSGA

N_M is confirmed town by interactions with RC (or very close to confirmed).

[Marshmallow Marshall]

One scum in IcemanCh/TrinityNZ/Enigma and one in MM/Rei? Or do you think all scum voted Oath??

I am back to suspecting Trinity, because RC was against her lynch. I don't have much more against her tbh, so I'll wait to see what everyone else thinks.

I'm going to wait for Trinity to react before exposing my views. And I'm going to wait for Rei to show up/get replaced before putting my vote anywhere.

I believe it is possible that Rei is scum, but I also believe it is possible that all scums voted Oath, because if I was a scum, I would have done it Tbh I'm surprised Oath has correctly vengekilled. Sorry for doubting Oath

We probably should read people without being blinded by the Oath wagon, which is far from being a common one. He asked for his lynch in order to have a kill. It's far from the standard mislynch ordered by the Mafia.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Also waiting for lurkers to comment before further comment on my end

*game dies*

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Yeh slow ... I suspect there is a scum (or two) in Rei and Trinity. Wouldn't be bad if both died today.
Could do an A50 as well.

Tbh, I am good with that. This setup is so flawed ;-; at this point, we can just agree on a strategy that will grant us win by high probabilities. We lynch one of those two, if the lynched is town, he vengekills the other. GG WP

[Marshmallow Marshall]

So RC being scum was a bit surprise to me, but on looking back through his posts, the signs were there. He didn’t give good reasons, but I think he mainly targeted townies. He voted me, he voted N_M, he scumread IceMan, Oath, Rei and MM at various times (although I think Rei was a fake read). He voted me and then switched to Rei before voting Oath. I don’t think anybody else was voting Rei at the time, so it was a safe vote, with low risk of losing his partner.

He was strangely adamant that he didn’t want to vote me - it must have been setting himself up to look like town once I was lynched and flipped town. Or, to set up me up as looking like scum if he happened to get lynched.

My thoughts ATM:

N_M

- town because of the interactions between you and RC.
IceMan - town. Pretty good scum hunting. Wrong about me, but at least he’s trying hard.

MM

- town, his interactions with RC appear to be from opposite positions

A50

- scumlean. He looked town for lots of strategising, but I didn’t understand him asking for me to take him out if I was lynched. If I was town - why would scum ask to be taken out? If I was scum - why would he offer himself up, except for the next lynch. I don’t quite get it. I also didn’t get RC’s plan of lynching the 4th scummiest, which A50 agreed to, so that makes him look suspicious.

Enigma

- scumlean. He voted for me, then suddenly unvoted - I don’t think he gave good reasons for either. He said Rei was a good choice to lynch, but didn’t actually vote him, and then voted Oath.

Rei

- scum, his posts are insubstantial, and he hasn’t posted for two days.

So, if I was to get lynched right now, I’d be vengekilling Rei.

Yeh slow ... I suspect there is a scum (or two) in Rei and Trinity. Wouldn't be bad if both died today.
Could do an A50 as well.

Tbh, I am good with that. This setup is so flawed ;-; at this point, we can just agree on a strategy that will grant us win by high probabilities. We lynch one of those two, if the lynched is town, he vengekills the other. GG WP

Yep, if you lynch me, I will kill Rei. Either way we lose one town, one scum.

Then you're the lynch today. I honestly believe you're the town one between Rei and you, but since you're town it will fix it by not giving the scum a vengekill. Your list makes sense. Also, if I'm right about you and Rei, my money is on A50 being the last scum. N_M is confirmed town or close btw.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

RC was was scum, super shocked, mucho wow

GSDGSDFGHSDHRSGA.

MM, does that mean anything?

No XD and I admit I double checked to see if I had posted ONLY that somewhere, and I didn't. I think I was just surprised

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Now I REALLY gotta go sleep, good morning lol. N_M, please give your reads, for you are confirmed town in my eyes. A50, you're susp, you should step in more if you want to help your team, whatever it is ^^

[Marshmallow Marshall]

A50, you're susp, you should step in more if you want to help your team, whatever it is

Do a search on all my game and remind me of one I wasn't suspected in, cuz it seems to me that this didn't happen since before the last dinosaur died.

You claim being an alt of AP, and AP was obvtown in Donner Party. (Okay I was scum, but I think I'd see you as obvtown in that game if I was town).

[Marshmallow Marshall]

N_M is confirmed town or close btw.

I would also laugh if N_M and RC were bussing each other, knowing full well they wouldn't target each other as scum vengekills. I definitely wouldn't put it past them. So I am cautious about this If it becomes LYLO, you could still lynch him and trust his scum venging abilities

Mhmm, but it's situational. If really noone alive is scummy, then I'll think about N_M, I guess.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

VOTE: Trinity Let's go I guess ;-;

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Nothing is happening :/
VOTE: Trinity

VOTE: Trinity Let's go I guess ;-;

Call me paranoid, but I'm not liking either of these two votes/posts at face value. They seem to have been done solely to get this through:

Yep, if you lynch me, I will kill Rei.

Which in turn makes me suspect both Trinity and Rei will flip green and one of Enigma/MM is actually red.

Paranoid!

But seriously, there are only 2 scums. I heavily townread Enigma. I'm town. Ssssssoooooooo........ nope.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Ok so I’m changing my plan. If you lynch me I will kill Enugma.

Which means you're scum

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Ok so I’m changing my plan. If you lynch me I will kill Enugma.

Which means you're scum

Why is that?

Because you'd kill obvtown. I don't think you would do that if you were town ^^

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Hey guys. I've read all of the posts, and am sorry for the silence but it was needed

Trinity, kill Enigma please. I sat behind and watched the show go on.

Rei is now my top town read he really tried to open every door of the game, and I agree with most of his views.

Trinity has been literally willing to die, and I don't see a scum doing that at all. Her last posts are looking like a townie fishing for her last leads in order to venge correctly.

Enigma is scummy for fleeing with a town read and keeping low profile. Plus, I didn't see any interactions between him and RC that show they are not from same alignment.

Last scum, if I'm right on Enigma, would probably be Iceman. I'll have to review his readlists to make sure, though.


I didn't post much because I needed to see where the Rei train of thoughts was going. He's very town-like to me now, as I said. Enigma and Iceman didn't step in. I haven't been 100% honest with you because I wanted my suspects to act as if they weren't suspected, so they would be less careful about their behavior. Enigma didn't feel the need to defend himself, so he just popped in, said 1 thing then got off for all eternity. Btw, Trinity is at L-?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Spoiler: Reaction

[Marshmallow Marshall]

VOTE: Rei Really Trinity...... GFRGSGDAFSFADBDBAD - no, this means nothing, once again.

Get Rei down. Or vote me and I will do what should've been done by *cough* someone *cough*, which is vengekill Rei.

Town really is scum's best weapon ;-;

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I just realized I swapped Rei and Iceman slots lol. VOTE: IcemanCh

[Marshmallow Marshall]

VOTE: Rei Really Trinity...... GFRGSGDAFSFADBDBAD - no, this means nothing, once again.

Get Rei down. Or vote me and I will do what should've been done by *cough* someone *cough*, which is vengekill Rei.

Town really is scum's best weapon ;-;

Also this looks like a fake reaction
Most of us were agreeing to have trinity venge enigma including you so you acting like she should have venged someone else is weird

Why does everyone here say my reactions are fake, w/e I do?! Lynch me then I'll venge iceman.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Fuck me! MM is scum and is really good at it too. Too bad we lynched you on D1 on the previous game so I didn't get to witness this!

1- You sounded

confident

Trinity was flipping town after the hammer. Not a shed of doubt there. 479
2- In the same post you instructed her to venge Enigma
3- Now you blame her for it?
4- You also start the day by voting the one person you said in 479 was your top TR??

I am now semi-confident in MM-Ice scum team. I very much suspect the switch in venge target proposed by you was to keep Rei alive for LyLo having realized he'd be easier to lynch than Enigma at this stage.

But "maybe" (and this is really a very weak voice in the back of my mind) it's the other way around and Rei is actually your p and Ice is the scapegoat? The one thing I know is N_M is still TOWN. I'll have to go back and reread some stuff (and I hate to read past posts)

I played really poorly this game lol........ I'm town, I swear it (ik this has little value BUT STILL lol). I posted that when I was tired, probably... Idk, I've had trouble IRL, I helped a friend move, etc etc. Enigma was obvtown, and I stand by this after re-reading. I also believe Iceman is being way too passive and is watching the game being won by itself. If you don't want to lynch me so I venge iceman, lynch him. I'll try to play better next games ;-;


Also, I'm a trash tier scum. Ask anyone on my homesite (sc2 mafia) and they'll say yes lol. The only scum role I'm good at is cultist that started as town. I know this full post is scummy as hell and I'd probably lynch myself if I didn't know my role, but I'm town...

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I think the best plan here is to lynch one of MM and Iceman and if they're good have then venge the other
we're bound to get at least 1 scum in here unless the team is A50 and NM which probably would deserve the win

^^ indeed. You can't lose anything. I offer my own head on that one, since I'm the town that is not town-like and will just be a weight for this town.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

By the way, should I self vote?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Okay.... I am willing to be lynched myself. I will vengekill my scum read. I'm quite confident now. If I'm scum and I get lynched, scums lose, so you can all live happily ever after. If I'm town, then I vengekill and I believe I will be right ^^

[Marshmallow Marshall]

huh interesting
how can you be so sure in your read tho
like personally, i'd rather lynch my scum lean and have them kill tha last person with me bec i am 100% sure I'm town, are you so willing to risk losing just for being confident in your scum read?

Because A50 has done many town things that could not come from a scum not you

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Actually A50, I hugely disagree
MM rn sounds like the "idealistic townie"
"You can lynch me guys! I'll just kill my scum lean and we'll win and everything will be fluff and rainbows!"

Thats not realistic. Yes I suspect MM but am I 100% sure of him? No I'm not. Just because I'm not sure of my read doesn't make me scum, it makes me a realistic townie.
And don't act like you wouldn't want the same because if your scum lean flips town you'd want them to kill the other person not you if you know you're town.

Let's stop acting like some angels because that is the truth, and if I was scum I definitely wouldn't mention that knowing how it would ake me look.

That's not realistic?? LOL! Vote me and I'll show you it's realistic

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Actually A50, I hugely disagree
MM rn sounds like the "idealistic townie"
"You can lynch me guys! I'll just kill my scum lean and we'll win and everything will be fluff and rainbows!"

Thats not realistic. Yes I suspect MM but am I 100% sure of him? No I'm not. Just because I'm not sure of my read doesn't make me scum, it makes me a realistic townie.
And don't act like you wouldn't want the same because if your scum lean flips town you'd want them to kill the other person not you if you know you're town.

Let's stop acting like some angels because that is the truth, and if I was scum I definitely wouldn't mention that knowing how it would ake me look.

Also I'll give you a tip, coming from a shit scum but a good town player. When you're talking about what you do as town, limit your "if"s and when you're talking about scum, put your "if"s when you can. This, whatever your alignment is. You tend to say "if" when you're talking about town more than about scum. This is, obviously, not the only reason I scum read you, but it makes me more confident.

Also, it's not because my play was unusual that you get a free pass to insult me and talk as if I was a noob or w/e.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Wasnt i your top townie???? why am i suddenly the sum lean??????
Especially when i was the one who sused iceman first wth

you know what
you got it
VOTE: Marshmallow marshal

I refuse to believe this type of play is a townie
there's just no way in my mind
And if you're both gonna kill me if you flip town, then honestly to hell with it

if you both wanna lynch me too then go ahead, but dont blame me if i venge wrong because you guys wont consider all possiblities

And by this vote, I shall decide who wins... May the Father of Wisdom guide my steps. VOTE: Marshmallow Marshall If I fail, I apologize. Thank you for your "trust", Rei.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Actually A50, I hugely disagree
MM rn sounds like the "idealistic townie"
"You can lynch me guys! I'll just kill my scum lean and we'll win and everything will be fluff and rainbows!"

Thats not realistic. Yes I suspect MM but am I 100% sure of him? No I'm not. Just because I'm not sure of my read doesn't make me scum, it makes me a realistic townie.
And don't act like you wouldn't want the same because if your scum lean flips town you'd want them to kill the other person not you if you know you're town.

Let's stop acting like some angels because that is the truth, and if I was scum I definitely wouldn't mention that knowing how it would ake me look.

Also I'll give you a tip, coming from a shit scum but a good town player. When you're talking about what you do as town, limit your "if"s and when you're talking about scum, put your "if"s when you can. This, whatever your alignment is. You tend to say "if" when you're talking about town more than about scum. This is, obviously, not the only reason I scum read you, but it makes me more confident.

Also, it's not because my play was unusual that you get a free pass to insult me and talk as if I was a noob or w/e.

I am in no way insulting you so i'm sorry if it came off that way
But i simply find this too flipfloppy to be a towny, its not because i think you're horrible or anything like that
like i said i will case you so i'll explain in details why

And once again I disagree. I think scum are much more confident in who is town than town themselves. Scum know the alignment of everyone, while town don't, so its makes much more sense for town to be hesitant about who to lynch or kill than scum.

Yes, I agree on the 2nd paragraph. Also, sorry if I misunderstood you, english is not my first language ^^ sadly I don't think French FM sites exists.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

NNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO =( sorry town!!!! Meh, you played VERY well A50, I got many things to learn here lol. I considered you as obvtown too easily. Rei, well, you did nothing that was a town tell to me. So sorry guys. But seriously, Almost50 = MVP, or w/e you call it here, best player.

Also apologies to Trinity for being rude and all, it wasn't my intention but being overly apologizing would've flagged me as scummy, so I just got myself look even dumber ;-;

GG everyone

[Marshmallow Marshall]

NYEEEHHHHHH

Omg that random NYEEH made me laugh...

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I was the first to suggest iceman as sus tho
And you had me as top town literally just before lylo ;-;

Nope. I haven't been honest with my reads this game, I tested this strategy. It didn't work extremely bad though (I had 2/3 on my scum reads, having pointed out RC's behavior at the start of game). And my opener was honest. It shows how much this game is based on paranoia. Yes it was scummy, but it was also a suicide to do that as scum ^^ the only big downside was being scumread.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

That's somewhat another reason why I don't think this setup works very well in practice:

You need multiple town that are mostly correct and willing to act on those suspicions, but if the rest of the town is completely convinced that your scumspects are town... you have to get yourself lynched to kill them, which removes your influence from the game.

It's a really tricky tradeoff.

Yep. It makes it close to impossible for Town to win. Fun fact: I have hosted this game on my homesite. Everyone was super excited with the new mechanic. But it ended the exact same way it ended here: 1 scum left alone who ate all the food crates... Nobody really enjoyed the game because of the following. This setup is inherently flawed. I usually say that about Cult setups, because it goes against a basic statement of the game of Mafia: alignments being permanent (not talking about roles, but alignments), therefore allowing a constant read on someone. This setup goes against another basic statement: lynching your scum reads. That being said, the game was fun!

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I see. Tbh i personally dislike strategies like that because it confuses town even more
I can’t tell if someone is a scum and trying to hide it by saying he’s fishing or if he’s a townie doing that
It definitely has advantages in the reactions and all but you don’t give us your honest reads so I don’t know how to read you

Ye tbh oath was mvp i need him to teach me how to be an assassin

Yep I know this. It's why I used this game: it was an experimental setup, on an unranked game. Alike the current games on my homesite, which are ranked ones. Which is why I said I would've lynched myself.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

HEY!

Yeah I changed it to Lulu, but this was my original avi on my main account. I came out of retirement and needed some warm up games so I made this alt so I wouldn't embarass myself lol

Lol this is also my first game for ages (I think after the server crash of 11). An alt to hide embarrassing play now seems like a good idea.

Your play was far from embarassing! You played great. I was surprised when Trinity actually flipped town AND vengekilled you ;-;