micro 816-II: pokemon go (open game) (gambe over)

[profii]

Those I know, hello
Those I don't, also hello

VOTE: stungun0404

[profii]

Stun's probably town.

Elaborate please

[profii]

I would lol if the scum team is Aronis and Stungun

[profii]

i tend to flounder more often when i’m town than when i’m scum. like you’ll see me argue a lot more aggressively, and i’ll actively look like lynchbait. whereas when i’m scum i am very calm and methodical with how i respond to any votes against me, and tend not to really ever be a d1 lynch target.

now if i happen to get lynched for some reason, i think profii is the most sketchy on my wagon atm.

at least the reasons shoshin and gif are on there are alright, but the fact that he’s stayed glued on there so far looks kinda icky to me when it’s based off no reason.

VOTE: profii

Tell me about how my RVS vote is sketchy lol

[profii]

I know I’m unorthodox town but that stungun post looks like cracking under pressure to me

[profii]

Bye who is Nancy - screennames please guys

[profii]

Is Shoshin always assertive!town on day 1 ?

[profii]

Hey Aronis, any reads?

okay! I'm going to give you reads:

I think lurking is all Nico ever does so we're just gonna wait for the inevitable replacement- In the meantime I'm not interested in lynching them since the replacement should give us better content to go on
Girl- she's a good player so since she hasn't been super obvtown already she's probably scum
profii - you don't get more obvious scum than this, save for maybe a cop guilty
Kokichi- I feel like he's probably town. I like his posts
northsidegal- town for sure
stungun- tough read but he can go into the town category for now
creature- probably town. I liked one of his posts

why did you start a readlist with “this player will just replace out” - that just comes over as filler

Look at how I played D1 in the other game. I actually got scumread at some point for being too passive...

Why are you changing it up

[profii]

i tend to flounder more often when i’m town than when i’m scum. like you’ll see me argue a lot more aggressively, and i’ll actively look like lynchbait. whereas when i’m scum i am very calm and methodical with how i respond to any votes against me, and tend not to really ever be a d1 lynch target.

now if i happen to get lynched for some reason, i think profii is the most sketchy on my wagon atm.

at least the reasons shoshin and gif are on there are alright, but the fact that he’s stayed glued on there so far looks kinda icky to me when it’s based off no reason.

VOTE: profii

Tell me about how my RVS vote is sketchy lol

it seemed kinda linger-y and intrigued me how all of your first three posts remain steady on the topic of “stungun-this”, “stungun-that”. are you actively sorting other players?

Actually my 2nd post was more aimed at sorting Shoshin than you

I have a theory that Shoshin is throwing out TRs all over the place to see who gets the warm fuzzy feeling of “hey she trs me, she’s right she must be good” and therefore Shoshin is trying to pick up buddies - hence I asked if she is always assertive - given she said she considers herself less passive in previous games, this is an alarm bell so I followed that up by saying why have you changed it up as well

But on the other hand, GIF said that’s a thing for Shoshin so my other theory is that Aronis is piggybacking on the Shoshin content - the read list was pretty dire - putting a non active as the main content is a cop out and also reading me as sure fire scum would be fine if I’d done something scummy, but I feel like Aronis is carefully manufacturing that read in line with Shoshin to try and create a bit of momentum perhaps


I would guess there is probably 1 scum in those 2

I also find your play floundering when you said you would flounder as scum. I think you’ll sort yourself later when more players start posting

[profii]

Why are you changing it up

To improve. How is this relevant to my alignment?

If passive!you is town and gets scum read

Then you have said (and also not disputed) you’ve changed - a potential reason could be to avoid scum reads

[profii]

Aronis is coming over like a scums dream rn actually

Someone they can sit back and let the town mislynch with no intervention

[profii]

profii, i said i flounder as town though but not as scum (mainly because i don’t fight with the same type of energy when i’m being scumread when scum).

you also seem to think i’m the optimal vote since your vote is still there, why is that?

You’re right I misread that

I don’t think there is a real vote yet

If you held a gun to my head I’d want to flip Shoshin rn but half the player list could be sitting back scum so I’m not in a rush

[profii]

particularly wrt NSG I think there is a surprisingly strong chance that she would have wanted to try her abilities playing scum.

would you say looking at 25 that Koki might be dissatisfied with his role?

[profii]

@profii, what are your thoughts on nsg’s opening post? does it indicate anything to you?

and if you had to make an earlier reads list, where do you stand on everyone thus far?

I’ve played one game with NSG and I was hard to read
I think RC was in there and I always find him hard to read
I’ve played with Koki but I don’t think we’ve ever been T/T together so that’s a bit of a mystery

The rest of the player list are largely unknown to me


So I took that post as “yeah you are right” and moved on fairly promptly as whilst that’s possibly true. I do have help in this game

So kinda null to me tbh

[profii]

Uh oh

[profii]

Stungun seems to be struggling to scum hunt but trying in their own unconventional way

Aronis declaring themselves not scum hunting is a big alarm bell

My gut feeling is Shoshin is politically moving the vote around for buddying to try and split the pack as it were

GIF seems ok but I can’t read RC well so I’m not the authority on that

Whilst inactivity is annoying - if it is scum, I guess it indicates we are not putting scum under pressure thus, but I’ll hear NSG out

I also have Kokis PM explaination in my mind that he got the reject PM which could be a scum sign

[profii]

I also have Kokis PM explaination in my mind that he got the reject PM which could be a scum sign

Question. What's a reject PM?

Your partner managed to get first choice, therefore the PM you ended up with was rejected by them

[profii]

I actually like that page topping post from Shoshin there - It’s easy for scum to just throw out whatever narrative they want to try and get people to believe but you’ve gone meta diving to go and find the “right” narrative irrespective of what you find

Have the biggest town badge so far

[profii]

NSG last post Monday AM (GMT) this game was in its very early stages at that point.

We haven’t really formed a lynchpool or anything like that so it’s hard to say inactive!scum!nsg is letting us mislynch on our own accord or if it’s genuine IRL stuff or whatever

Would be good to know if a prod goes out

[profii]

Stungun seems to be struggling to scum hunt but trying in their own unconventional way

Aronis declaring themselves not scum hunting is a big alarm bell

My gut feeling is Shoshin is politically moving the vote around for buddying to try and split the pack as it were

GIF seems ok but I can’t read RC well so I’m not the authority on that

Whilst inactivity is annoying - if it is scum, I guess it indicates we are not putting scum under pressure thus, but I’ll hear NSG out

I also have Kokis PM explaination in my mind that he got the reject PM which could be a scum sign

So basically everyone could be scum and you don't have any thoughts about who it is?

Well the point of that post was

stun - prob not scum
Aronis - scum read
Shoshin - scum lean (though i later retract that)
Gif - no idea right now but if you held a gun to my head I’ll go town
NSG - whilst lurking is bad, I’ll aboid reading a slot on 2 posts
Koki - scum lean


So 8 players excluding myself, I’ve offered 3 potential scum slots
I’m leaning most strongly towards Aronis


So basically everyone actually is less than half


There are other times where I would call this shade and say you are scummy for it but your meta diving is swaying me towards saying you are someone who has confidence in their convictions and when you believe in something you will lead your wagon rather than sheep someone else’s

If some other players come in with “yes this fits your meta” uncontested I’ll basically lock town you tbh despite me thinking there are flaws in your case - the intentions seem pure

[profii]

VOTE: aronis
L-2

[profii]

How is that readlist modified at all

[profii]

Feel free to interrogate as much as you can to understand the rationale for any of my reads if you want to send attention my way

I felt my first list was mis repped because I don’t feel like I’m scum reading “basically everyone” by any stretch so I thought clarity would help

But you do seem to be directing heat in my direction ironically

[profii]

Directing in my direction - that’s horrendous but oh well

[profii]

Hang on


Shoshin



Those quotes were from Large Scientifc Mafia right


Tell me what else you noticed in that game?

[profii]

Feel free to interrogate as much as you can to understand the rationale for any of my reads if you want to send attention my way

I felt my first list was mis repped because I don’t feel like I’m scum reading “basically everyone” by any stretch so I thought clarity would help

But you do seem to be directing heat in my direction ironically

I count one very weak town endorsement on stungun from that list
everybody else you ignore, don't commit, or call scum. Scum reading "basically everyone" seems like a fairly accurate description. You definitely didn't give any real town reads out.

You can probably argue I made a town lean on GIF which wasn’t originally there and you’d be right

I’d highlight that I have stated I struggle to read GIF and that town lean was if you held a gun to my head so really it’s very close to nul

I just want to see how Shoshin answers that last post before I go any further - I think I’ve spotted something

[profii]

Hang on


Shoshin



Those quotes were from Large Scientifc Mafia right


Tell me what else you noticed in that game?

actually I will just post what I noticed-

I was going to say I’m sure I remember playing a game where NSG said she was “trying” something on day 1 but I couldn’t remeber which it was

I looked at scientific mafia on my wiki at which point I realised that’s the game Shoshin was metadiving me with those quotes

I skimmed NSGs iso looking for the quote to show as town she “tries things” which, if you look carefully, may be happening in this game...

But I did notice town!NSG made exactly 3 posts, last being #40, then reappeared on post #375 a few calendar days later

Yet - what I want to know is why, if Shoshin had the oppurtunity to look in my previous games and found one with 2 players in this game, shoshin didn’t notice exactly that and just focussed on me

[profii]

It’s easy for scum to just throw out whatever narrative they want to try and get people to believe but you’ve gone meta diving to go and find the “right” narrative irrespective of what you find

I don't understand this. Can you clarify?

Like you went looking for evidence

Scum have to fake stuff to make Town lynch town so they have to invent things - whilst that gives them the freedom to do anything they can get away with

You went looking for evidence of things you thought were true which seemed towny

[profii]

Scum have to fake stuff to make Town lynch town so they have to invent things - whilst that gives them the freedom to do anything they can get away with

You went looking for evidence of things you thought were true which seemed towny

This doesn't make sense to me.

Scum look for evidence to support a case on town. Town look for evidence that indicates town or scum. You seem to be saying that I'm doing the former yet townreading me for it. I don't understand your logic at all.

I’m saying scum have to look for evidence of things that weren’t true in the first place to dupe everyone

Whereas your post looked like you were looking for evidence of things you thought were legit which makes scums job harder

[profii]

What they're saying is that if you were scum there's a lot easier ways to push you and you wouldn't bother going for supplementary details which may end up not being in favor of the narrative you're pushing

But as town you would do the meta analysis

It's not the most rigorous of thinking but it makes sense

Yes


However that being said

I still want to know your (Shoshin) thoughts on why you only looked at me in a game with NSG - surely it was convienient to check out NSG while you were there


Also - I think me and RC were in a newbie game with NSG and there were periods of a few days of inactivity from NSG at certain points - I’ve not fact checked that but that is the reason I am not in a rush to sort NSG right now - ime I believe her IRL routine obviously causes this for reasons that aren’t our problem - it’s just unfortunate it happened 2 posts into her ISO

[profii]

helloo everyone

Ears burning?

[profii]

Right, where i said Shoshin was trying to find evidence of the truth I sometimes see people paint facts as something else and i sometimes see that as a scum tell

328 is not the first time Stungun has mentioned my vote on him, in 328 see “tunnelling his vote up to page 11”
Obviously my vote was on Stungun that far - fact. Tunnelling? Absolutely no chance - and you’ve said it more than once so something isn’t right there.
In my last read list I said I think you were trying to scum hunt, that was meant to infer doing something towny which was good.

If I was tunnelling you would clearly be at the forefront of my iso and I’d probably disregard most of the rest of the game.


So to me you seem to be painting facts as something they are not.

I’ll be watching closely

[profii]

good, 283 profii takes some stances, but heavily favored in terms of finding players scummy (more scum than town mentions which looks bad to me).

especially when he says i’m probably not scum, but he kept his vote on me all the way up until the later aronis vote off memory.

and he also mentioned aronis as being a scumplayer’s dream (implying thinking aronis town), then later turns around and votes him. i don’t get that progression. he’s either scum or he’s not scum, now he’s scum to you?

See this contradicts itself - i am not making hard stances so why would I move my RVS if I’m not confident on reads?

[profii]

Does anyone dispute that the only reason anyone is pushing NSG at the moment is meta

[profii]

NSG is town

At least one scum in

{Shoshin / Stungun / Aronis }

Probably Aronis


Hard stance there for you.

[profii]

good profii, i like that you took a stance! but why do you feel shoshin and i are in that PoE scumpool? and you haven’t attacked any townreads on shoshin? you did on me early on.

_at least_ one of you will be pushing me for nefarious reasons given momentum is on me and it’s a mislynch - but obviously no one can trust that statement except me.

The main point of the post is to make it clear to the town people who are smart enough to review the thread should I get flipped - that if one of you 3 are a common denominator on any town flip wagons or counter wagons etc then we will find the scum quick enough I would hope.

My gut feeling is the scum partner is in the shadows right now because we are not putting much pressure on scum
The main pushes seem to be me and NSG and I’m fairly confident in my NSG read now

I think the scum have 2 Directions of travel here - if the scum in {lynchpool} keep pushing town over the next game-day(s), you’ll get caught , so scum partner could just bus for cred if they think they can get to end game - quite ballsy, but to be fair one of my scum victories on my wiki was Koki carrying the game for miiiiiles so I’m not ruling it out.

Ooooor - should we move a wagon in the right place and pressure scum, I think the 2nd scum player might take over trying to influencing the game away from a scum lynch. The reason for that is so scum2 takes the spotlight away from whoever it is in {lynchpool} so they don’t get caught too quickly

So yeah I think we have a scum in the pool and a relatively low content scum

[profii]

Profii, why is NSG town?

I liked the way she sorted my slot. There was a balance of paranoia which seemed genuine

I also like the Koki scum read which is getting lost and imo deserves more attention

[profii]

NSG is town

At least one scum in

{Shoshin / Stungun / Aronis }

Probably Aronis


Hard stance there for you.

Oh god your reads are awful
I second thought just go back to weak stances on everything please

I would say 80% of the time you are the scum in that lynch pool and 10% to the other 2

[profii]

Profii, why is NSG town?

I liked the way she sorted my slot. There was a balance of paranoia which seemed genuine

I also like the Koki scum read which is getting lost and imo deserves more attention

(just to be clear - i haven't "sorted" you as town at all. i just saw something which i wasn't sure was a reason to townread you for and wanted to hear others' thoughts.)

Would Kokichi not play that way as town, NSG?

i would think that kokichi as town would at least be voting someone already or trying to sort people.

Why do you think this?

personal history with him?

what other answer would you expect?

Maybe i should have said tried to sort my slot combined with paranoia

Combined with your post about being a hard player list and me making a mess of that newbie game we were in, I assume I contributed to you making that comment

So you seem genuine for those reasons

[profii]

Where did Koki express that preference ?

[profii]

But Koki said he got sloppy seconds (I know he could lie)

[profii]

I say let’s wagon him. We need to shake the game up to find associations

VOTE: Koki

[profii]

Still doesn’t make sense that you let Gamma choose one of 2 pms and then thought you’d be masons. Something not right

[profii]

Same - before I say what happened to me I’ll check with Schadd I can say what I want here

[profii]

Same - before I say what happened to me I’ll check with Schadd I can say what I want here

Yeah that's why I was being vague. I didn't wanna get in trouble. But basically we saw the roles at the same time. I said didn't matter which role. So he chose

Same but I want to check one more thing so awaiting mod response

[profii]

Aronis is not concretely fitting into either a scum or a town mold for me

Profii I still feel like is town but I could agree to have him jailkept on an aronis scumflip to deal with that

Works for me

[profii]

shoshin you think profii is townier than me?

Why is that a concern for you?

[profii]

Right I can talk about how we chose PMs which was what I was checking with schadd so I can clarify my Koki concerns

When I read the rules I took it as “you all will be put in 2 player lists then can swap in first 72 hours”

I didn’t really clarify this but when the threads appeared I just waited for playerlists to appear

It was only when prompted that schadd made us pick a PM that I even realised we had to


so given that I would expect mod pms to all be the same, I expect we weren’t the only confused pair - especially given there seemed to be a delay to game start

So given Koki said Gamma went ahead and picked a certain PM, that means one PM appeals more than the other imo

[profii]

I mostly agree with NSG's reads.

RC/NSG/Shoshin
Profii
Aronis/Kokichi
NR, Stungun (null)
Creature

is where I'm at rn

anyways i guess i mostly agree with this? well, maybe not entirely specifically, but if you were to squint hard enough i guess

i think creature is just honestly first and foremost, but beyond that i would put stungun above aronis and kokichi who i both think have a pretty decent shot of being scum

on nicorobin i honestly have no idea but if i had to just take a guess i would say she might not pick scum so i guess that's a minor reason to townread her

what i'm getting out of all of these are that aronis and kokichi both seem like people i'd be fine lynching at the moment

what are you thoughts then about GIF / NSG / Shoshin largely aligning with their reads in these posts

or is it just Shoshins change of direction that bugs you

[profii]

that’s 12 votes. note, not one on profii.

Someone’s got a profii boner

[profii]

sure, like scum me comes in and pushes gif of all players right here when i already have a kokichi vote on me. like what sense does that make? but keep sticking to your wacky theories

What relevance does Kokis vote have to you pushing GIF if you are any alignment

What

[profii]

We should lynch Aronis and JK GIF

VOTE: Aronis

[profii]

That’s why we will be copping GIF for you after the Aronis flip

I’ll do it vice versa if you want

[profii]

Aronis is not concretely fitting into either a scum or a town mold for me

Profii I still feel like is town but I could agree to have him jailkept on an aronis scumflip to deal with that

I like your case and on reflection this makes me think that GIF knows I’d volunteer to be JKd easily but this just frees up him to scum kill freely

He’d probably take it as a soft VT claim from me to not bother Nk’ing me

Amusingly that quote is one of a number of interesting GIF/Aronis interactions as well



VOTE: GirlInFreezer


Stun - vote with me. It’s 2300 here so I’m gonna sleep. I want to wake up and see what gif does with pressure please. I’ll leave this mission with you, don’t let us down!

[profii]

his play doesn’t seem like town rc at all. i’m not familiar with scum rc, but my friemd is, and she thinks this is scum rc. have you played with town rc? or scum rc? it at least seems a far cry from what i remember in his townplay.

What's different from his town play? Be specific. And explain why those things make RC scum.

No offense to Gemini but I doubt she knows how to read RC, so that's not remotely compelling.

So why is GiF scum?

There are less signs of the usual verbal diarrhoea which is the initial thing that made me consider Stun pushing GIF

Looking at the general direction of travel in the GIF ISO the reads are arguably less assertive than my experience of town!RC

There seems to be a push on NSG which is lame because it’s easy

There is also a theme of distancing if you look at how GIF deals with Aronis

Later in the ISO, the NSG momentum falters, creature becomes a potential push (again another sucky lurk push) and NSG resurfaces

All the other slots have no clear reads because town hasn’t really formed a lynchpool yet so GIF doesn’t know where to position herself other than far away from Aronis as he has scummed it up quite obviously.

I think whilst a bit of pressure formed on me, GIF has played with me at least a couple of times and knows I was playing my town game. I think the reason for not pushing that wagon is I have rightly highlighted Town need to attack people pushing me and Aronis was already there.

Also - GIF has more experience playing with me than most of the player list so probably knew my spewing was towny so couldn’t genuinely get on that wagon

Also - I’m often taken to lylo so that too

[profii]

I dunno, Stun's sudden certainty that RC is scum doesn't make a lot of sense to me. And Profii jumping on that wagon because of speculation about an Aronis/GiF team makes even less sense.

Have a reason. Anti town to reveal.

[profii]

Gifs not had pressure really. I think applying some will remove any element of doubt to the above

And if that pressure gives any scum tells to the rest of town then winner winner

I’m pretty biased now I’m pretty much locked on Aronis and GIF - so I’ll try not to tunnel and get in the way but I think I’ve sussed this game now

[profii]

it’s perfectly acceptable to be scumread, you know

there’s nothing ruining about it. and ftr i do happen to be town, but i don’t even think you care to recognize that tbch.

like there’s no need to have this kind of reaction — town or scum.

Wtf GiF...

feeling like if we lynch GIF and he flips town this day is gonna be a waste.

Surely you 3 have seen RC pull this before when people try to lynch him?

[profii]

Whatttttt i kinda want to lynch gif for that. It feels like a massive overreaction. I don't see town frustration in doing that in this situation

Oh and you

[profii]

I am annoyed I didn’t write this down in my PT - when I said to Stungun yesterday “apply pressure” to GIF I knew he would react in this annoying ATE way - he’s hard to lynch, I liked whoever said defeatist, that’s a good description.

Kinda not sure what to make of Shoshin/Stungun/Aronis as I would assume at least 1 of you would have seen this behaviour before - I was expecting more Kokis - people to be unfazed by it because actually...

It’s totally NAI (imo) - I would say as any alignment it’s easy to make this defence in reaction to pressure so it’s largely meaningless


What this episode has given me is that creature post - 616 - why are we lynching anyway for something that is largely NAI


I say we lynch Creature which pretty much towns GIF
Or we lynch Aronis because part of me still believes the case on GIF is good and the associations between GIF / Aronis seem to be there


I know people have a reluctance to hunt the scum team on day 1 but it doesn’t bother me - obviously I have an opinion on where the JK should go following those lynches, however I’ll not speculate too much as there is potential for me to be wrong and we don’t want to signpost our scum to easy NKs



So yea

VOTE: Creature

[profii]

Surely you 3 have seen RC pull this before when people try to lynch him?

I wasn't going "oh let's just lynch RC"

yeah I mis read.

[profii]

That self vote dramatically changes things for me

[profii]

NSG

What about Stungun?

[profii]

The last 2 posts are a fair summary of where I’m at

UNVOTE:

[profii]

Actually that looks like l-2

VOTE: Aronis

[profii]

VOTE: NicoRobin because he's scum

Nah

If NicoRobins scum style is lurking I don’t think she chooses the scum PM

[profii]

The last few pages have me a bit confused tbh

Do you think Stun vs GIF will be TvT or SvT or even SvS

If TVS, which is which

[profii]

I did a meta dive on Stun and the only thing that struck out to me was that he has never previously been _this_ concerned about who was voting him

But then he self voted

[profii]

It’s weird that GIF is voting the player with probably the most townreads

Not caring who we lynch

And also not really coming up with definitive stances anywhere else

[profii]

Oh and raging that given all the above He is receiving scum reads



Welllll duh

[profii]

VOTE: NicoRobin because he's scum

Nah

If NicoRobins scum style is lurking I don’t think she chooses the scum PM

What if both were scum roles then and she had no choice? Why rule out that possibility?

Sure, it could be, I figure it’s not likely

[profii]

meh

i honestly want to lynch stungun more out of policy than anything else

my actual pick for the scumteam is creature/profii as of right now

How come I’ve moved into scum team territory from your pov when I’ve succinctly pointed out the scummy thing s you’ve done

I’ve not even said I think you are scum, I’ve just said I’m unsurprised you are attracting scumreads from the group

[profii]

I’ve only played one game with creature & I was scum so I didn’t try to read him

Everyone is always just like omg he replaces out as scum

So I’m just paranoiad for now because he kinda feels towny like Stefan felt towny in that newbie game that we played (GIF) and I got that wrong

So Im looking elsewhere for now

[profii]

However that being said creature and Aronis are probably the best flips rn

[profii]

Also I don’t think GIF legit thinks we are making this game unenjoyable for him


But ok

[profii]

Can we flip Aronis

He’s got 3 votes then disappeared

He’s pressured scum and has no idea how to deal with it

Then JK GIF - I’m 99% sure Aronis will flip scum, so if we can “cop” GIF and then trust him going forward, he becomes a lot more useful

[profii]

Because it’s posts like that which make you scummy and need trusting

You are always so scared of being the day1 lynch or N1 kill on reputation so when it’s fairly obvious that Aronis is scum and someone proposes that you get a free pass to day 2 and as close to an inno as we can give you - I’d expect you to say great thanks

JK me if you want but if Aronis flips scum I’ll be tunnelling you day 2


I’m not going to push you today because I was amazed that everyone backed off on you when you became the worlds biggest cry baby about being scum read but surely we’ve all seen that boring AtE from you before - it’s so fake

The posturing from you around Aronis is clear to see - you have been saying he could be scum alllllll day but won’t follow up with anything concrete

It’s super super obvious you and Aronis are the scum team but you can be pushed after a JK so people are a bit more immune to your crying later


I’m sure you’ll go off on one at that but right now you 2 are day 1 caught scum to me.

[profii]

VOTE: profii

Sheeping Shoshin with the caveat that I think there's more chance of her misreading a player who plays like aronis than one who plays like profii and if they're both scum then who cares.

Lol there it is


Your initial vote was Aronis sure, get the distance in early whilst town doesn’t know what’s going on - but later on, I keep seeing “scum could be x, y or Aronis” but no more said on Aronis


Wonder why that might be

[profii]

So you’re saying you’re not scum because you’re better than that, but I am because?

[profii]

Profil you had me as scum earlier after NSG voted me, what changed?

well this post turned out to be a bit of a sprawl of thoughts, oops... (advance warning)

mainly, my read on you was pretty early/weak and also that I'm very convinced on Aronis/GIF, obviously there can only be 2.

My read on you was based on that PM Speculation stuff, which is ok when the game is kind of finding it's direction and to see how you deal with the scum read - but it doesn't really warrant progressing if your play isn't alarming as we get going. Whereas the interactions between Aronis/GIF seem clear to me, also the way Aronis has disappeared and the way GIF has no direction despite being a good player seems outrageous to me.

I don't think I've ever played T/T with you which is when I get my best reads, therefore my ability to be certain on you is not great, but you are not a cause for concern right now compared to others. That doesn't mean if I'm wrong on Aronis/GIF that you are next in line, it probably means if I'm wrong, then full reset from me.

I am pretty sure Aronis has gone slightly awol as pressure is on right now and he isn't sure how to deal with it, but he is approaching prod territory so I look forward to that.
Also, there are the mutual scum reads very early between Gif and Aronis, which never really follow through to any real pressure - I'd particularly expect GIF to have honed in on something by now, not just calling me scum whenever I put the pressure on him.

I also refer back to my Creature vote. The time line in my head goes a little bit like this:

3 votes on GIF
GIF gets upset
people remove votes because GIF upset (Really? no one has seen that before?)
I gave GIF an out with a creature vote, given he had been looking towards the inactives at that period in time.
GIF doesn't follow it

to me, the natural thing to do, particularly on day 1 is to wagon an inactive slot and see what happens, hence I am scum reading aronis because he has succumbed to pressure. However, I think GIF didn't want to get on the "obvious town cred" creature wagon, for that reason, the other reason being, pressure on Creature would mean more creature content, meaning one more slot that becomes obv-town - making it harder for scum.

[profii]

I’m saying it’s practically scripted and easy to fake as either alignment so it’s nothing to me

[profii]

He’s picking on the inactives and not finding anything scummy apart from when I push him - there’s enough content to say I want more than that

Also look at how he deals with Aronis as time goes on if you flick through the ISO - There are enough scum reads on Aronis to say his behaviour is legit scummy and not some mislynch push by real scum but GIF never fully commits to it either way - posturing for the flip if you will. I’d expect town to either go “sheep” or “no way guys, this is town meta” etc but lack of commitment overall from GIf

Aronis has gone awol as pressure has been applied which doesn’t help the above points

[profii]

How does 782 fit in a plausible distancing narrative, Stun?

[profii]

Stun

If you’re not finished that’s fine - it just seemed you’d picked the result you wanted and we’re finding my posts that fit - hence I picked one that went against what you were trying to say

I am sure if you have more to do, you will come out with a balanced view

[profii]

I feel like this game is stalling and not honing in on some viable lynch candidates for the day.

My speculation is we haven’t really pushed anyone beyond 3 votes - to be fair with a majority of 5, I see why but maybe scum feel comfortable enough that the predominant wagons are changing with the wind and we’ve either totally missed them or they are confident

I still say #1 preference is Aronis - if it’s not going to happen I’ll need to be convinced

[profii]

Caveat with this game has been coming alive at USA time zones which is sleepy time for me but things usually pick up post weekend and excluding stun here I’m not sure we are moving forward

[profii]

A better question is probably why profii

[profii]

I'm also paranoid about you, GiF, because I didn't like the self-vote. I've been told you do this as town but I still didn't like it because I thought you were having fun this game and I just thought you wouldn't be pulling those shenanigans this game. It just surprised me and part of me worries that you're just trying to emulate your meta as opposed to genuinely being upset. But maybe you're just a very sensitive player that even when your scumreads vote you, you self-vote? I dunno, just feels like you wouldn't let your scumreads get to you like that. Is that actually what you do in your games as town when your scumreads vote you?

I have a perfect example of it somewhere but I can't find it yet. When I saw it I just went "here we go again"

to be fair, RC was fighting it as town so he was a mislynch but I don't find the massive AtE helpful compared to trying to someone who tries to demonstrate what they did that was pro-town

[profii]

if you're town and saying that 'you do not think that i am all that town' then you are still acknowledging that I am towny and choosing to ignore it for whatever policy shit you're bringing into this game
you're sure enough that I'm town to trade your life on my townflip and also to be ignored when you inevitably claim jailkeeper to out the town one, be our guest.

Find me one ISO where someone was exclusively towny or scummy

Everyone does something that someone will perceive to be slightly scummy and towny in the course of any game day

[profii]

if you're town and saying that 'you do not think that i am all that town' then you are still acknowledging that I am towny and choosing to ignore it for whatever policy shit you're bringing into this game
you're sure enough that I'm town to trade your life on my townflip and also to be ignored when you inevitably claim jailkeeper to out the town one, be our guest.

Actually this is scummy

This infers you are not the JK

You should know better than to narrow down the JK hunt

You did it anyway

Ergo, this is a scummy post

[profii]

Yeah we are saying you’re scum, you’re obviously not the JK

[profii]

@profii, where do you stand on a kokichi lynch? seems more plausible than gif today, as nsg and i are already on it.

Don’t really see it


In your Aronis case you mention Aronis goes against the grain and scum reads GIF - if you look back at GIF there is also a scum read on Aronis - both early in the game

However. Me and you scum read gif and it’s salty salty - but no salt between those 2 - I think, distancing position for later

See it?

[profii]

I’m missing your point there - Im being dense?

[profii]

Gonna take the initiative:

Lynch target: Aronis
Jailkeep target: GIF
Secondary jailkeep target: stungun (mostly because it's likely JK!GIF would jail stun here if Aronis flipped scum)

Happy

[profii]

GiF is saying I’m pushing him for AtE and ignoring the rest that he can’t defend

What do people do when his guaranteed scum flip on me doesn’t happen

[profii]

no one is willing to police people's reads on me because no one trusts themselves to read me and people scumreading me for stupid reasons is so ubiquitous that it's just accepted as something that happens

I am trying not to be a dick but if this keeps happening then you need to ask yourself why you are so hard to read

[profii]

Stun can you give me a concise summary read list?


GIF what’s your read on Stun rn?

[profii]

if profit reevaluating on me why does he go to stungun instead of aronis

This is astute

[profii]

Stun can you give me a concise summary read list?
GIF what’s your read on Stun rn?

i wouldn’t find it far fetched that scum asks these questions in an attempt to provoke the 2 of us. like i could see that intent behind these questions

because if you are town i genuinely want to know your intent to asking these 2 questions right now

This is probable scum

[profii]

right

I’m being told GIF is town in my PT and I’m listening

The thing that made me reconsider is basically one sentence - GIF said “someone on my wagon will be scum” idk why but it felt sincere, sure - experienced scum could say this - but I thought well it’s not me so maybe this narrows it down a bit

I’ve been mad busy so i haven’t had a chance to look carefully at everyone pushing GIF but Stun was starting to concern me and also Creature is worrying me slightly (but I’m being told he’s town too)

I said in my PT this change of heart in reads is going to get me lynched but I’m already at L-1 so I feel like I can speak freely

I was goooooing to say from here it’s probably best that you consider that an honest appraisal of my thoughts, decide if you believe it and then lynch or not

However given that I’m not bothered about being lynched that probably makes it obvious I’m no out only PR, the JK - the reason I’m saying let’s either just do it or don’t is because let’s say you go “fair enough, seems Town” - we run someone else up to L-1 - another VT - I’m sure you release that helps scum

[profii]

Like given the wagon I kinda wanna lynch Stun if it was me. He seems to be getting some firm town reads but I’d question that - as time goes on it seems to be a more and more concerning slot

[profii]

Gonna take the initiative:

Lynch target: Aronis
Jailkeep target: GIF
Secondary jailkeep target: stungun (mostly because it's likely JK!GIF would jail stun here if Aronis flipped scum)

see this is exactly what I was pushing for

VOTE: profii

Then 2 posts later....


Me no likey

[profii]

Oh and if I was day vig/ JK super power - I’d probably have done that at the time - however - letting scum hunt JK outside of planned targets is not something I’m on board with

Kinda find it strange that hasn’t been challenged or promoted

[profii]

when I flip town pressure stun the most please. he was on mine and gif wagon, probably the best starting point

[profii]

GIF feels like someone who is trying to push me because he thinks I’m scum

Stun feels like he is trying to push me because he can get the lynch though at this point

My town flip will hopefully lead you to Stun fairly quickly but idk where 2nd scum is

Whilst Aronis seems scummy, the lynch kinda stalled whereas there seems to be momentum on me and to a degree GIF - could easily be there

I’d expect Koki and NSG to be town

Not sure in creature and Nico


I sort of think it’s best to flip me just so scum don’t know not to kill me tonight as I’m not JK.

[profii]

Gonna take the initiative:

Lynch target: Aronis
Jailkeep target: GIF
Secondary jailkeep target: stungun (mostly because it's likely JK!GIF would jail stun here if Aronis flipped scum)

see this is exactly what I was pushing for

VOTE: profii

Then 2 posts later....


Me no likey

its literally on this page

Are you even reading the game

[profii]

Damn new page

[profii]

I am annoyed I didn’t write this down in my PT - when I said to Stungun yesterday “apply pressure” to GIF I knew he would react in this annoying ATE way - he’s hard to lynch, I liked whoever said defeatist, that’s a good description.

Kinda not sure what to make of Shoshin/Stungun/Aronis as I would assume at least 1 of you would have seen this behaviour before - I was expecting more Kokis - people to be unfazed by it because actually...

It’s totally NAI (imo) - I would say as any alignment it’s easy to make this defence in reaction to pressure so it’s largely meaningless


What this episode has given me is that creature post - 616 - why are we lynching anyway for something that is largely NAI


I say we lynch Creature which pretty much towns GIF
Or we lynch Aronis because part of me still believes the case on GIF is good and the associations between GIF / Aronis seem to be there


I know people have a reluctance to hunt the scum team on day 1 but it doesn’t bother me - obviously I have an opinion on where the JK should go following those lynches, however I’ll not speculate too much as there is potential for me to be wrong and we don’t want to signpost our scum to easy NKs



So yea

VOTE: Creature

It also pinged me here that creature just hopped on the GIF deal

Idk creature well enough to know if he just gets bored of the day and wants a flip, or if this sneaking onto wagons without too much forthcoming reasoning is scummy

Sure it _can_ be scummy and I’m putting it out there for others to say yay or nay but I can’t conclude myself

[profii]

I don’t understand why someone said nominated JKs this early are optimal but whatever

[profii]

Who is scum voting for me then

[profii]

Who is scum voting for me then

i have already established that it would be either gif or creature. but that is for you to decide. i’m at the point where i want to trust gif does not AtE this hard as scum, so i guess then it would be creature—which would make sense given his bandwagon switch over to you and his obsession with controlling the jailkeeper jailkeeps. so if you flip town, creature is the likely scum consequence. does that add up to you?

We are on the same page rn

[profii]

We are very close to deadline

We should defo lynch someone on my wagon (including me) and we should narrow that down with anyone who also pushed GIF (including GIF)

I think that’s {me, gif, creature, Stun}

I’d prefer the latter 2 don’t care which

[profii]

I guess Aronis can be scum 2 due to the difficulty of the wagon going through

What does the Aronis flip tell us compared to what is likely to come down to me or creature given we are both involved in me and gif being pushed, much more useful for the coming days for whoever survives I think

VOTE: creature

[profii]

Shoshin - what does me flipping town and me flipping scum tell you?

[profii]

Because people react like Stungun did a few pages back and go omg I’m not answering your question ur scum

So I’d rather hear something that nothing I’ll humour it

[profii]

yea I avoided declaring a scum read on rc for the same reasons - he cries like a child about it

But ultimately if I scum read him I have to say it


Anyway. I still think the point about people pushing him and me is quite valid way to go so I think if we lynch {me Maria creature stun} everyone should say what that means - ie if it’s a scum where is the partner and if it’s a mislynch then who caused it


I’m voting creature and I expect the partner to be in the inactive somewhere and if it’s a town flip the gif gotta be scum

[profii]

schadd_ - given the replace out and slightly dubious game swap can we get an equal deadline ext as per the other game please? I feel like GIF Maria is a critical slot in sorting this day and swapping out less than 48 hours to deadline is not really fair chance to allow reasonable catchup and contribution from Maria

[profii]

I think there is a lack of activity which is moving a lot of people towards unreadable but here is where I’m at

Me and you seem to be looking at the game with the same logic. So I am guessing you are town
I would say Maria / Creature is TvS based on how the wagons are forming - so I think rn I’m on Creature, however given RC’s AtE is so NAI and this hard to sort I’m kinda thinking that if Maria doesn’t spew town in the next 36 hours we give her the rope - that is based on advice from my PT that if it was scum!creature he wouldn’t be around

Aronis is likely scum 2 based on how GIF and Aronis dealt with each other and how we could never get the wagon to have Ann proper momentum

That kinda leaves the rest of the players in null territory - I’m a bit perturbed that Shoshin still wants to push me first but hopefully even if I do go first you are heading in the direction of Creature/Maria tomorrow anyway


If it does happen to be something like NSG and Nico then that is super lame but it’s impossible to tell rn

[profii]

PoE if it’s 2 of {Maria Creature Aronis}

Not any merit of their content etc

[profii]

Although if it’s creature I’d reconsider Aronis tbh

[profii]

We should lynch creature today - we can get replacers for the inactives

[profii]

We should lynch creature today - we can get replacers for the inactives

They aren't flakers, they are just players that will continue to prod-dodge.

If we _have_ to settle for an inactive then I’d probably vote NSG - only because I’ve played her before and know her Town game is more active than this

Idk nico so idk I’m leaving it

[profii]

only because I’ve played her before and know her Town game is more active than this

lol

I should have caveated that with if we really really have to lynch between you and nico, you were marginally more active than this but I am really not advocating for a policy lynch in this game. Creature or Gif are best followed by Aronis

[profii]

I’m between Maria or Creature - followed by Aronis, Unlikely to vote anywhere else

[profii]

We should lynch Aronis and JK GIF

VOTE: Aronis

Erm

I will do it

VOTE: Aronis

[profii]

The only good thing about lynching me is you remove a VT claim so it makes it harder for scum tonight but I flip town

[profii]

I’ll humour you stun - let’s say Aronis flips town and by some magic I was scum, who are you looking at for my partner?

[profii]

notice also how aronis is not helping us lynch profii here. but profii is helping us lynch aronis. from that, it can be deduced one is scum trying to survive with a mislynch (survivalism) and the other is town not too convinced on the scumminess of anyone and is kind of resigned to being lynched.

To be fair if you don’t trust that I’m town - scum are never shooting me so no trust makes me an alright lynch

A wrong lynch, but you could do worse

[profii]

The reason I’m asking is because imo it looks like one of Creature / Maria is probably flips scum so even if we coin toss and get it wrong then you have a fair chance in the other - it’s useful

Also, if we say, went Maria, I still believe that incriminates Aronis massively so makes the JK bit easy to get us a guilty/inno and wrap the game up


But idk what exactly is making me scummy here - for example -

your bit in 1186 makes absolutely no sense because you are linking me and Aronis, whilst just refusing to flip Aronis, but also not being bothered that creature follows you from Aronis to me in the blink of an eye

Even if we went Creature and it flipped scum, I’d JK you, if I was JK

[profii]

you’ve done that twice to me now btw.

why are you seeing a universe where you are scum if you are indeed NOT SCUM?

you are flipping scum. your intention here is to distract. and the right move here is for town to lynch you

Your unwillingness to commit to overall positions makes me think you are scared of having to change your tune on day 2

Also the bold part is highly highly concerning


You are now someone I’m willing to lynch today

[profii]

if you're town and saying that 'you do not think that i am all that town' then you are still acknowledging that I am towny and choosing to ignore it for whatever policy shit you're bringing into this game
you're sure enough that I'm town to trade your life on my townflip and also to be ignored when you inevitably claim jailkeeper to out the town one, be our guest.

Actually this is scummy

This infers you are not the JK

You should know better than to narrow down the JK hunt

You did it anyway

Ergo, this is a scummy post

attacking this, but not voting this IS SCUMMY.

ugh, no, you were saying the other day you couldnt be bothered to fight GIF either...

if you drive this mislynch through i hope you are the JK because scum are taking you to lylo in this game...

[profii]

VOTE: stungun

still willing to vote aronis or creature but stungun is very very lost rn

[profii]

because you've belligerently driven a mislynch (assuming creature was hammer with that comment?)

so you need to step back and get far away from town leader position because you are dangerous so if you are town, scum will keep you to the end if they know you'll get it wrong.

no offence but damn you better go on and win if you're town

[profii]

VOTE: stungun

still willing to vote aronis or creature but stungun is very very lost rn

YOU ADMIT I AM TOWN AND YET YOU VOTE ME.

this is scummy af

Just because I humour everyone that their viewpoint is "Im town but I believe some other players are scum" isn't me saying "I know you are town"

but I think you've got your flip, so hopefully you are scum and everyone piles on you pretty quick tomorrow given I am about to flip town...

[profii]

thats what i ask you to do but you wont, so why do you think its ok to ask me that?

[profii]

but just to humour you

We have the inactives:

NSG
Nico

with no content it's pretty impossible to say anything about this apart from speculation. People are claiming that Nico has town meta for doing this and I know NSG isnt the most active player. It's NAI and if either of them are scum they suck because they ruin the game for those trying to play - especially as the wagons are just going round the active players.


then we have the semi-actives

Shoshin
Koki
Aronis
Creature

Shoshin, could easily be scummy flying under the radar, sees the game very differently from me, but i have never played with her so idk. one to keep an eye on for later
Koki isn't doing anything alarming, probably town
Aronis is scummy, likely with Maria
Creature is also scummy, but not entirely sure where the link is - also note here his partner has flipped town already. Probably the most scummy in this group right now

then the more active dudes
me - town
you
Maria



i am struggling to sort you stun, because i have seen people who i have thought are just daft and misguided flip scum
GIF was scummy but Maria seems ok ish



the weird thing in this game is the wagon is working its way round the more active players so there is almost certainly scum in here, which is good for the non-actives i think

so I'd say the highest chances of scum are aronis and creature rn

VOTE: creature

[profii]

and why jailkeep aronis with profii scumflip?

notice also how aronis is not helping us lynch profii here. but profii is helping us lynch aronis. from that, it can be deduced one is scum trying to survive with a mislynch (survivalism) and the other is town not too convinced on the scumminess of anyone and is kind of resigned to being lynched.

wow

wow

wow

you are trying to feed the group that we are a scum team

you are trying to say mafia theory says JK should cop a solo remaining mafia

yet when i flip scum, we dont cop aronis, despite you pointing out we are somehow scum link and a JK becomes a cop



BECAUSE YOU KNOW IM GOING TO FLIP TOWN OMG SCUM LOL

[profii]

VOTE: stungun

[profii]

VOTE: stungun

you literally implied i am town

and yet you are actually back to voting me

if this is not scummy, then idk what is

Yeh, profii will have to explain that.

Tomorrow

[profii]

Wait, did Aronis disappear without doing anything again?

let’s not get distracted by the fact that both kokichi and profii posted and then disappeared just now after i called them out as a possible scum pair based off their answers/lack of answer in the case of profii to my questions about each other.

Or let’s consider it’s 6am now in my time zone so back I just.... went to sleep


I can see why GIf was getting frustrated now

Your constant misrepping is annoying - hence lylo comment earlier

[profii]

VOTE: aronis

L-1 again.

[profii]

The fact we can’t get aronis through suggests scum aren’t keen to be there. Intent it and get the claim or just vote

[profii]

The fact we can’t get aronis through suggests scum aren’t keen to be there. Intent it and get the claim or just vote

EXCEPT THE SAME THING WOULD APPLY TO YOUR WAGON.

WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET YOU THROUGH

Put a case together rather than just constantly post “profiis scum guys come on”


Because right now that’s all you got (and it’s very annoying)

[profii]

why, based off your own gameplay style, should i believe this is your townplay profii?

Lol I don’t care what you think - if you can convince people to lynch me - great I don’t have to listen to your tunnel anymore

But what I refuse to do is say stuff that you can keep quoting and go “look guys scummmy”


Because that’s where this is going

[profii]

The fact we can’t get aronis through suggests scum aren’t keen to be there. Intent it and get the claim or just vote

EXCEPT THE SAME THING WOULD APPLY TO YOUR WAGON.

WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET YOU THROUGH

I’m pretty sure the majority of people have voted me at some point - I can say that confidently without checking - there’s a town sign


Why don’t you do something useful and search the thread to see who has voted Aronis and see if anyone never has?

Rather than screaming at me, that might actually be worthwhile

[profii]

profii? i think there is a higher chance profii flips scum here than aronis

just look at how that vote wagon changed directions quickly

how easy he hopped on

and i had found this earlier in one of his town games, so i will copy it into here:

quoted from pm’s to myself: fun biz!

“profii does not really seem to be townhunting much this game, which is concerning me

Spoiler: a profii town game on d1

town stances

just because I don't proof read and I don't think that's very clear...

Ruby town

SIV scum

the bold bit:

I think that so far, ruby, whilst fairly aggressive about it, has been scum hunting,

so lets just call that town for now.

the SIV vote, whilst 3/10, is an easy way to get yourself on a wagon that potentially has legs... oh look I'm L-1

something weird is going on with me flying up to l-1 - I have no idea how that has even happened, so I'll be voting someone on my wagon I think.

I think this is the worsts town game

And Kokis

So I am thinking Una or Siv will be the scum

Una made some weird posts for Una to be fair but I don’t like SIV either

102 posts in, already 3 town stances.

Usually I can town hunt pretty easily but there is a lack of players towning it up in this game

he claims to be able to usually townhunt pretty easily, and has already taken 3 stances in that game, and yet claims “there is a lack of players towning it up”. why does it seem to me that he is not taking a similar stance in our game?

I’m pretty sure I’ve been criticised in my earliest games for being seen to town hunt more than scum hunt so I find it weird that someone would expect to find a history of me doing it - I kinda assumed site meta is scum hunt or die


Anyway. TW - our only other game I think was the mafia month game where I was scum. Why do you think this is my scum game again? I think this is your paranoia game because town lost that game I mentioned

claims he is a townhunter more than a scumhunter as town

Well I think Mr Otter can be town, that’s good

another stance, and we are only 151 posts in

Is it bad I dislike how quickly people pussied out of that wagon when it hit l-1

Is it bad that I dislike how Azurit provided a fairly comprehensive read list and managed to miss out the worst

what do you dislike about it profii?
in detail pls

I think I was just baiting to sort you - concluding you are town for now

Kokis town we can do a new wagon now guys

that is 4 players

kinda feel like Performer is too unaware to be scum like their reading comprehension is well thru the floor

I was literally just trying to think of the best way to phrase

“Sometimes players use bizarre logic and appear scummy to me, but they are just town that play in a way I don’t comprehend”

As that + what you said is my thought on performer rn

that is 5 players and we are only 395 posts into the game

i am not a fine lynch

damn that cute dog.

UNVOTE:

we get to a few more pages and i'll actually attempt to put effort in i guess.

I'd have to say

Kokichi, ruby, profii, performer.

That'd be my lynch list from greatest to least.

Now why is kokichi town?

so I feel like maybe i was in tchills lynch pool the whole time,

koki is probably town

and tchil is adding fuel to any passing wagons to see if they go through (i.e. mafia win-con remove any town)

I know that me being really weak but now the wagon has momentum let me see.
Dunn:
ruby / worst / tchil / koki / azurit / Lucky Otter.

now let's just look at some of the prev. wagons at their peaks

profii (5):
Kokichi Oma, the worst, UnaBombaH, Tchill13, SIV36

koki:
maria / profii / performer / SIV / TChill


the dunn wagon is

mostly

TRs, id say luckyotter is one of my stronger town reads maybe

My gut instinct is I don't TR Tchill and he appears on all the wagons, this is making me think 'any lynch will do for scum' sort of vibes. But again, it's quite simple, scum don't give themselves away like that.

sorting wagons and explaining why he cannot quite townread tchill.

urgh

LuckyOtter is like my biggest town read and tchill is my biggest scum read.

someone else can do it

not messing around before night phase where he is killed n1. he is messing around here however

”



my instinct is telling me profii is flipping scum here. thus, i heavily favor lynching him. little-to-no townhunting in this game = high chance of him flipping scum. need to investigate his scumgames really quickly, but i am pretty damn sure i want this lynch right now. ARONIS HOWEVER HAS BEEN TOWNHUNTING TO AN EXTENT off memory.
VOTE: Profii

Spoiler: extra reason

further,

What they're saying is that if you were scum there's a lot easier ways to push you and you wouldn't bother going for supplementary details which may end up not being in favor of the narrative you're pushing

But as town you would do the meta analysis

It's not the most rigorous of thinking but it makes sense

i see this now. but this argument definitely isn’t cogent enough to adapt my early stance on him. all of this is attributable to profii-scum too. i’m not thinking he’s someone we should townread right now though, and i tend to be right when i call townreads into question as town, as they typically are scum. so if i’m not following a townread someone puts out, and i call it into question as town, and they can’t back it up with a statement that changes my mind, that players has had a tendency of flipping scum.

suffice it to say, i don’t call that many townreads into serious question.

this is additional reason why we lynch him. my gut instincts here have been extremely accurate of late. i cannot fully townread profii, and have called tr’s of him into question. this has proven remarkably accurate for finding scumplayers in my recent games, even extending to a multiball scum game where i questioned a townread on creature and he was scum. in american presidents mafia, the only townread i questioned was on momrangal. she flipped scum. and this was on d1 before i replaced out of that game. this has been absurdly accurate overall of recent, and i encourage everyone to trust my gut here.

Like that whole one of 3 people are scum lynchpool doesn't really feel likely to come from scum

That's townish, yeah.

explain why please @gif, and not shoshin.

like, i can see how it can be interpreted as that, but want to see if your explanation to see if you have the same idea that i have here

i furthered that question mark here, never got a good answer. i am not relieved

i have made several cases profii, with the majority of the material being in 1167 and 1169 both of which went largely unacknowledged by you iirc.

@1289

Here are something I note about that post

- walls suck, even with spoilers, get to the point
- the first spoiler tag is not even this game, who cares?
- the 2nd spoiler says “my gut instinct” - I know you wrong so I stoped reading

Literally that is how I dealt with your post so if you don’t have some short succinct reasons for scum reading me that you derived from this game, I don’t find you credible at all- probably why your wagon is dying

[profii]

in fact, that is literally kokichi and nico’s vote progression

stun —> aronis

that’s it for both

OMG A SCUM PAIR

[profii]

Ps I know you didn’t say that but that’s how it feels like you are reasoning with me rn

[profii]

You didn’t think about why people might have lives outside of a mafia game (shock horror) and instead just went straight in with a comment that helped your tunnel


It’s annoying. Stop it.

[profii]

Don’t tell me how to play

I’m allowed to try and interpret things from your pov

[profii]

Aronis needs to claim.

Meh

VOTE: Aronis

[profii]

Hmmm Aronis’ Buddy just flipped PR

[profii]

Gifs not had pressure really. I think applying some will remove any element of doubt to the above

And if that pressure gives any scum tells to the rest of town then winner winner

I’m pretty biased now I’m pretty much locked on Aronis and GIF - so I’ll try not to tunnel and get in the way but I think I’ve sussed this game now

correction: he wanted to pressure gif, but he did have suspicions of gif before that creature vote which he straight-up said “would pretty much town gif”

I've said a number of times there is a logic that suggests Creature / GIF could be TvS

that implies I don't know which is which, but flipping one would lead us to the other.

but don't worry about reading the thread, I'll keep posting

[profii]

Stungun is probably scum with Aronis for me at this point. I read his ISO

The majority of page 1 is him leaning town or not being sure on Aronis, then suddenly he puts him at L-2 and just wants as flip - but quickly gets onto me and tunnels from there.

At this point, if you really do want a flip, and I suggest there is a point where we all do with a mere 4 hours to go... you can get it, but you are finding every reason not to vote Aronis rn.

funny how things turn out.

[profii]

so if aronis flips town what does it tell us

stungun has flirted with the idea of the lynch but never really followed through - he has also said he does not bus as scum. = 2 major concerns.

he is pushing me hard, if I go through, he is in a position of pretty much mistaken town leader and will have some explaining to do.
im not bothered enough to meta dive and see how/if stun tunnels a slot then backs out after the mislynch as scum or whatever - as that's not something Ill be around to deal with but if I do get lynched, I suggest that's where the more diligent among you go.

but if he is town!stun and he is just tunnelling me, I guess he is just one of those people who pays far too much attention to 'mafia theory' - e.g. I said aronis is a scum players dream - that implies 'if aronis is actually town, because he is coming across very scummy, the reason he might be coming across scummy, is because he is scum, which is far more probable'

but that doesn't roll off the tongue as neatly, however, given where Stun has taken us, I feel I need to say it.


sigh.

[profii]

distortion: i do bus as scum, just not always!

i did it HARD in newbie 1875.



and i think you, profii, are scum because of a). you literally implied that you know i am town without directly stating so yourself, and then voted me soon afterwards. you would only know i am town if you are scum. b). similarly, you say you know NSG is town early on, then you back that up later by attributing everything nsg has done as being NAI. what kind of progression? c). you distract me from your vote wagon by trying to find out who your partner would be before you are lynched, and you have done sth of this nature multiple times now. and d). you are scum because you have doubtcasted players more than stuck up for them in general off memory, and that is being scum 101.

e). even if your lynch goes through, you aren’t even offering us that many townreads to reflect upon. you expect players to be town, but you are not really telling us you think they are town. this is also problematic.

you are doubt casting players over me at every turn

A) I said I try to go with other people’s povs to try and elicit their reads. It doesn’t mean I know X is town it means I want to hear more from you now so we can catch you later - you have refused to do so on multiple occasions
B) see A plus I don’t think I’ve given a strong town read on NSG - my whole stance is that I know she is not super active so better to sort elsewhere
C) see A, the last bit particularly
D) how can I stick up for anyone if I don’t know anyone’s alignment - if I’m doubtcasting and it’s scummy then right back at ya - you make no effort to understand what I am saying and manipulate everything to suit your tunnel

[profii]

OMGUS isn’t AI it’s just a stupid thing people have made an acronym out of - I voted you in a rage because you’re constant spin on what I do is annoying - doesn’t make it scummy. It’s just using your vote to make a point

He didn’t town anything up so that is just plain scummy

I agree about the l-1 comment - people get upset about jokes way too easy in this game

But jokes are usually not AI




The only saving grace is you are hard defending Aronis to try and send people my way at this late stage - you are manipulating at every turn to get people into me

If we had more time I’d be advocating for your lynch

I’m almost going to self vote to ensure we get a lynch, prove you wrong so a) this 1v1 ceases and b) people become highly suspect of you day 2

If it was a bigger game I would but worst case scenario is 2 mislynches and we lose

[profii]

oh no guys don't lynch me I'm a town cop

why fakeclaim cop as scum? lmao. maybe to get on town’s humour side, but there really is no scum motivation to that in a game that is cop-less.

It’s an open game it’s a joke it’s NAI fgs

[profii]

Since you love meta go find a scum game of mine where I got involved in a prolonged 1v1

[profii]

And if it does you in jail tonight boy

[profii]

There is no way you need JK for protection

I’ve claimed VT
You’ve tunnelled me (or you made a good go of it as scum but failed to get me over the line)
Scum know I’m town
Tunnel stupidity is in their interest
So if you are Town, scum want me and you 1v1’ing
If you are scum, well duh, but I have to say that or “OMG you know I’m town”


So imo we are both alive as long as possible because scum know what’s coming here

If Aronis could kindly flip scum and the JK could inno one of us, then it makes everything a lot easier

[profii]

And if it does you in jail tonight boy

you would choose me: because you think i am town, or because you think i am scum? and i might be that jk, we’ll see

i mean if aronis flips town, anyways

would really like to know more of your thought process there

“And if it does”

Does = you go to jail IF ARONIS IS SCUM


If it’s a town flip, totally different approach

Read properly man

[profii]

I was solely talking about a scenario where there is 1 scum left

[profii]

Point being because we are in a 1v1 which I suspect you will continue tomorrow- it would be nice if Aronis can flip scum so JK can cop me or you and we can rebuild some trust

Otherwise scum exploit it massively - guarantee you and me alive tomorrow for this very rewson

[profii]

And if it does you in jail tonight boy

you would choose me: because you think i am town, or because you think i am scum? and i might be that jk, we’ll see

i mean if aronis flips town, anyways

would really like to know more of your thought process there

“And if it does”

Does = you go to jail IF ARONIS IS SCUM


If it’s a town flip, totally different approach

Read properly man

lol. i’d definitely suggest digging deeper than that because i have never hard-defended a scumpartner. doing so d1 would be insane coming from me imo. the seemingly obvious choice at first sight is not usually the right one; i learned this mistake myself recently from mislynching town who hard defended scum

Meta is stupid - play this game not every other one you’ve been in

[profii]

You know your meta fluently

So if you are scum it would apparently be easy for you to go x is my meta but I did y so im town

It has nothing to do with this game tbh


You keep saying thing like that though - it’s like you are playing text book mafia rather than trying to understand why things in this game are happening

[profii]

Point being because we are in a 1v1 which I suspect you will continue tomorrow- it would be nice if Aronis can flip scum so JK can cop me or you and we can rebuild some trust

Otherwise scum exploit it massively - guarantee you and me alive tomorrow for this very rewson

if i’m possibly the jk, why am i guaranteed to be alive tomorrow?

you can’t guarantee that i will be alive

you are making excuses for us both to be alive tomorrow before tomorrow, this does not have good looks

Sure there is a unlikely possibility that
-you are JK
-you hit the scum kill person or scum target

It’s more likely that scum go “profii vs Stun is lol let’s just kill an inactive”

[profii]

I am fully aware there are no absolute rules in life, don’t worry

[profii]

Because?

[profii]

aronis might be town

Easy, profii.

profii

I am scumreading profii

I just went on your ISO to see why you are scum reading me in he first place and found that

It bothers me that stun and Shoshin were on Aronis wagon.

Anyway, back to reading

[profii]

I’ve read Maria iso and now I think you will sort yourself as we go on

[profii]

I’m happy to let Stun push me as far as he likes. If he wants to VI then be my guest

[profii]

JK should claim if they jailed someone imo

Idk - the good news is they didn’t kill the silent scum - it’s either an inno or a guilty for sure

But given the high inactivity in this game I wouldn’t like to call it and potentially mis lynch and inno and trade the JK for it

[profii]

True dat. Hopefully the dude breadcrumbed it

[profii]

Nico feels town too

now I know you're just memeing

If you knew my meta, you'd know that he is not. Here's the idea: how about you learn the actual way I play rather than throwing out accusation randomly.

If you have a reason for scumreading me that isn't countered by my meta, then share it. Otherwise, cease and desist.

You're in Poe what more do you need me to say? You were in the Poe from the first place and you haven't done anything to get out.

Who exactly is not in the Poe?

[profii]

That’s a weird mix

[profii]

I’m not really here to do that

[profii]

VOTE: profii
not moving

Well it seems like a waste of time to try so... I’ll just wait and see who else pushes me today. You and Stun seem towny enough

[profii]

You seem to think you are going to lead the town down the path you outlined above

Why’s that?

[profii]

At the moment only half the players have posted this game day

I’m under the impression you won’t be town leader


You make a good point about counter wagons actually


So I’ll vote

VOTE: NSG

[profii]

If I don't act confident if I don't lead because no one else will. We'll lose so yes I will lead the town I have answers

Lead tomorrow - NSG or Creature today.

[profii]

Erm nope. Go give 1423 some proper thought as to why that might be town

Probably best to ask what your pal thinks rather than here

[profii]

Have you checked in with RC since the day 2 start?

[profii]

We’re probably entering a grey area in the rules - sorry schadd

[profii]

I’m gambling on Creature jailing NSG

I know you just said don’t out the JK and I know there is enough scenarios where that doesn’t work

But to me - I know I’m town, you agree with me that Stun is likey town: therefore scum know this - they want us 1v1ing so town, if anything, lynch to split it up

Therefore we know 2 people that don’t need protection

So as much as scum says that the textbook for JK and 2 scum is to doctor, I personally would try and kill-block - I’m a gambler.

So I figured Creature assuredness was a similar thing and he guiltied NSG - hence why I’m saying I don’t think you will be town leader and being fairly vague - I was guessing people might also do that


Anyway


I’m willing to listen to people who think Creature is outing the JK with his day2 entrance on NSG as I appreciate my theory has long odds


So yeah

[profii]

Mafia is a team game and this game even more so then others. I don't get why you're not trying to convince me why I'm not incorrect I do not get the town motivation in that what so ever. If you townread me you should trust in RC and Me's read that NSG is town we could be wrong on you but you just saying you're not gonna explain why I'm wrong on some of my reads isn't going to change my mind magically
Pedit: We're fine

So in summary - the motivation was trying not to out a potential JK
- not needing to fight 1 players push on me if other players follow the JK
- given you scum read Creature it’s fairly safe to say I think he is a JK as people obviously don’t see the game my way
- also therefore this explains my motivation and also refutes your scum read on me

so hopefullly that goes some way to explaining what I’m up to here and helps you understand what I’m doing

[profii]

Can we like lynch nsg today? I'm fairly confident she's scum.

If you guys are confident in NSG-town I will help you lynch this blatant JK outing attempt

[profii]

UNVOTE:

[profii]

Why have you just said

“nsg IS town”

Followed by

“I will review”

If you are making such assured statements, a review implies there is a factor of doubt - therefore why make the first quite definitive statement

[profii]

Whilst I am doubtful over your claims of great reads, I’ll happily lynch creature. I’m pretty sure NSG / Creature is TvS and I’m going to do what RC said he did i a recent newbie game with me

Go against my gut to vote with the town direction as it’s the “right” way to play

However if you are all right and I’m wrong -
A) great, I think we get a scum flip out of Creature if NSG!town
B) a creature scum flip should tell you I’m not the scum partner - given the immediate pressure would I immeadiately bus given I can be JK guiltied tonight if that all happens?

So

VOTE: Creature


Bed time ta ta zzzzzz

[profii]

In answer to Koki 1455 and Maria/RC 1461

I took 1400 in this game as a breadcrumb from Creature that he JK’d NSG and given her total lack of activity then she could have tried to sneak the scum kill but got caught

That’s what I truly believe - and still do - my #1 preference is lynch NSG rn

However if you go on my wiki - go to the “prey” newbie game and ISO RC - he says he was scum reading Stefan but didn’t push him as town players (inc me) thought he was town so he went with the town trajectory over his own reads

Imo if Creature isn’t the JK, he is baiting the JK - so given my belief that it’s scum!NSG but 2 people are saying no she is 100% lock town, at least 1 can’t be her scum partner (or creatures)

So I’m following RCs lesson on “good play” and putting town ahead of myself and not lynching NSG

I’m still lynching Creature because NSG Creature is likely TvS so I want t to prove a point

[profii]

@stungun Considering what Creature said, I believe he is a JK with a guilty on nsg, so I am going there for now.

can you go a bit more into why you think this is the most likely scenario?

particularly as 2 people who claim they have excellent reads on NSG - considering there are 2 people claiming this, at least one isn't NSG's scum mate

[profii]

@stungun Considering what Creature said, I believe he is a JK with a guilty on nsg, so I am going there for now.

can you go a bit more into why you think this is the most likely scenario?

particularly as 2 people who claim they have excellent reads on NSG - considering there are 2 people claiming this, at least one isn't NSG's scum mate

Because Occam's razor.

Can you tell me why it isn't likely?

It could be scum!creature baiting the JK - that implies a trade of creature for any kind of counter claim. Unlikely because it is quite apparent the scum are hiding well in this game. E.g. if I was the scum partner I'm under quite a push from Stun and partially Maria - if creature traded for JK then I wouldn't be confident in reaching end game, so as I know I'm town - perhaps scum are more confident that scum#2 is more hidden / or we are on the wrong track, whatever.

so then lets look at the JK!Creature scenario = NSG was either the target or the executor, we don't really know. I am not confident in my scum reads in this game, so I would probably guess scum feel like they are in a strong position. Therefore would you kill among the actives? No - we are apparently all wrong - particularly this 1v1 between me and Scum, so let the active players continue to be wrong - kill within the in-actives. This increases the odds of NSG being the target.

Then there are 2 players who claim strong town meta on NSG - this means, if NSG was scum, then only 1 of those 2 claimants can possibly be scum. Even if both claimants happened to be scum, it's simply TMI, again making NSG town as scum know for sure.


That mainly covers the NSG!target scenario, let's look at the NSG!scum scenario.
Creature is probably right in thinking me and Stun is TvT - we also lynched aronis and he knows his own role, that means he has a JK pool of only 5 players, 2 of which are scum.
He also knows the kill is likely to be in the pool of 5 - this gives a 40% chance success rate of stopping the kill (via save or block)

Those remaining players are Maria, Nico, NSG, Koki, Shoshin - if I was a JK, I'd probably try and block a kill and pick one of the first 3 in that list. Koki and Shoshi seem towny too so my PoE is that you / NSG and possibly Maria are scum. It's a decent chance of blocking a kill.



that's how I would have approached JK last night anyway if I was creature - we don't even know if he really is JK, he could be scum bait


the point is there are so many twists and turns, I don't know how you can just go 'yeah occams razor'

[profii]

Creature implied being a JK with a guilty on nsg, and it's more likely that he is. That's Occam's razor for ya.

ok so why is NSG more likely to be a caught scum rather than a defended towny.

[profii]

i will admit i have very little to add to the game right now (for the record, something i've never done as scum; never as scum have i acknowledged my meta or tried the self-aware route, only tried to appear towny)

i think it's strange that profii went from earlier having a townread on me to not only assuming that creature's push on me is a jk crumb but also assuming that that would be scum me making the kill rather than town me being protected (although in all fairness, i probably wouldn't kill myself if i were scum)

anyways, i think odds are that nobody in town is actually correct on who scum is right now

I was just about to make a post to Stun and Maria asking you 2 that basically if Maria takes exception to me not wanting to convince her I was town, then surely you should take exception to NSG not reading Stuns posts anymore

Upon checking, it appears that triangle of players (Maria / Stun / NSG ) all seem to town read each other so in your worlds no one is wrong and needs correcting

That’s interesting

Anyway whilst I was researching that, I noted 2 things
1. NSG has given out very little in the way of reads since d2 started
2. The above quote, particularly the doubt over me in the 2nd paragraph


NSG has previously acknowledged I can be unorthodox town - probably due to our time in the newbie game positivity
My perspective of that game was I had unfounded paranoia over NSG as she was sooo town, but NSG hand held us all to victory towards he end

I guess from NSGs perspective she looks at me and thinks at what point does Unorthodox town just mean scum, maybe it’s this

But - overall - I feel like NSG has acknowledged my unorthodox town play in a small effort to buddy - I also think she said I had a town read on her is probably a misinterpretation - I’d say given her lack of content I don’t have a scum read but I would say she is not oozing town just yet

But I feel like NSG has not been in the game that much and these town assertions on me day 1 and Maria/Stun current comes over as TMI and NSG wants to cause all the doubt in my direction


So independent of if Creature really did JK or not

VOTE: NSG

This is better

[profii]

Maria - go ask RC about positivity

He was in that game, I recall wrongly pushing him - so we have an example of him witnessing what I’m sure he will call me playing badly like he did here but NSG rightly town reading it

Ask him how that compares to this

[profii]

Stun why does you absolute town read on NSG trump your partners
Yet Kokis partner scum reads me over him therefore Koki should vote me?
I don’t really care for the answer - just highlighting things that make your tunnel look absolutely ridiculous after my town flip



Nico does make sense as potential scum - I said in my PT whoever votes NSG is probably bussing because imo I put forward the less likely theory and wanted to use it as bait - the only reason Nico came up with is it’s the simplest theory and no other real reasons why


My only concern is following on from 1513 - I said it because it was obvious, but if I’m wrong none of the last paragraph applies and I’ve created a massive distraction for scum to exploit - and that absolutely does not mean the JK should clear anything up - whilst they remain under the radar, I say keep it that way

Imo the Nico scum flip incriminates NSG massively
The Nico town flip probably points us towards Koki

[profii]

I find it really weird that Stun is just using half facts to serve his cause but no one cares at all

[profii]

hello

[profii]

Can you explain how it is bandwagon-y when I was the first one to go “oh look potential JK breadcrumb from Creature there”