micro 816-I: spaam (normal game) (gambe over)

[Irrelephant11]

e g o

[Irrelephant11]

regina spektor - open

love herrrrrr


VOTE: the worst

love you too tw

[Irrelephant11]

oh nice I'm already voting for scum

[Irrelephant11]

Should be good.

VOTE: Gamma

weird how you're not voting scum

[Irrelephant11]

Well it wasn't but it is now

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[Irrelephant11]

wtf is happening in this thread

We're lynching scum. You should vote Flavor Leaf with me.

[Irrelephant11]

Well I don't see how voting him will make him harder for you to sort. You should help us lynch him while you wait.

What are you hoping to see from him?

[Irrelephant11]

tw you should vote Flavor Leaf

[Irrelephant11]

He won't vote scum when asked

[Irrelephant11]

mm but I'm right
tw lied so just try to tell me how he's town

why do I need more than a scumclaim to vote someone
the fact you haven't unvoted means you agree anyway

[Irrelephant11]

So your Leaf vote is serious, then? A way to get more AI content from them?

Gamma why defend the worst, who's one of two players to act scummy so far? Also, why are you voting the same player as him? Do you know something about the worst I don't?

[Irrelephant11]

I don't believe you.

[Irrelephant11]

@tw what feels towny about Gamma? Also I don't have the charisma to keep up the aggressive act - I was just making something out of nothing for AI content.

It's not AtE, it's me being upset that Irrelephant is making a big deal out of nothing

I mean you're welcome!

Agreed that Gamma comes out of this with a response that could reasonably come from town, but I'm not sure it's enough for me to townread him personally at the moment - his response seems overblown.

Ircher is my towniest read so far.

@Gemini

So far, Irrelephant is coming on strong which feels sketchy. Gamma I want to give a town lean (see their posts in Ircher post #45). The worst is AI and so is pretty much everyone else. Will update accordingly.

What about my play is sketchy? I think it's pretty clear in retrospect that I was trying to push us out of RVS. Do you see scum motivation for that, or the way I did it?
Also, how do you read Ircher's 45 and say you agree with a townread on Gamma? That's not what Ircher was saying.

Professor what do you think of Gamma and of Gemini so far?

[Irrelephant11]

Flavor Leaf (2): GeminiTwin12, Irrelephant11northsidestory (1): the worst

I think tw is on Flavor Leaf now?

[Irrelephant11]

I mean I will admit I don't have enough experience to read Gamma off tone. I just think it's a bit much to be "upset" by my posts and to vote me for them. Idk though I'm obviously not going to have the clearest perspective when his scumread is on me, so I'll give him time.

Also yeah I mean the goal was to see who would respond and who would let it ride. Is there anyone on page 2 whose response felt scummy to you, tw?

[Irrelephant11]

AtE is Appeal to Emotions

[Irrelephant11]

what about gemini's response is worse than gamma's? I know you said you're tired but I am gonna be confused on what exactly about Gamma's tone you like

VOTE: geminitwin

[Irrelephant11]

I didn't say sketchy and scummy are the same.

You only answered my first question. Please answer the other two

[Irrelephant11]

That all makes sense. You seem a little spewy with your thoughts which I'm slightly townreading - feels like you want to be understood and clear things up

I think I answered that question already for the most part, but basically I think his reaction was a little much. I'll wait till he's around to explain himself

VOTE: Prof Fridays what's something you've seen that you DO think is specifically AI? I'd myself, tw, Ircher, gemini, and Gamma each have enough to start to sort.

[Irrelephant11]

Alignment Indicative

[Irrelephant11]

I didn't respond because I never thought tw's thing was scummy, I just wanted to end RVS

Also yes, I asked it because I'm trying to figure out tw's reasoning on Gamma and see if it's real or fake
I voted geminitwin to apply pressure to see what he does
Why is doing both of those things confusing?

Gamma now that you know (or at least I've said) my page 1-2 actions were forced to get things moving, do you still scumread them?

[Irrelephant11]

His somewhat commanding/demanding posturing in his posts. "GEMINITWIN HATH GIVEN HIS LORDSHIP IRRELEPHANT A SATISFACTORY RESPONSE. PEASANT FRIDAYS! THOU SHALT ANSWER HIS LORDSHIP FORTHWITH OR HIS LORDSHIP SHALL HAVE THINE HEAD!!" I am highly skeptical of anyone that tries to take a lead role in the town.

Why?
Also is your vote because you think I'm scummy or because you don't want me to act like a leader?

I think the worst is town

I would love more from Flavor Leaf right about now

[Irrelephant11]

Oh also is there a northsidestory this game?

[Irrelephant11]

Gamma why were you gonna unvote?

tw it can be both <3

[Irrelephant11]

Mm okay I buy that
What reads do you have atm? you can leave out nulls

[Irrelephant11]

Sigh. Two players won't be doing much for a couple days, and I'm townreading most of the active players. And we have 0 posts from the north side. Not sure how much scumhunting there is to do here

ummmm anyone have helpful partner spec? Don't break the rules here obviously but is there anyone here you think is more likely to choose a town or scum role, given the choice?

Ircher tell me why Gamma is scum and not just a flailing townie

[Irrelephant11]

I think his point there was fair - why did you appeal for votes from someone you'd just expressed a scumread on? (as I'm asking this I'm noticing something but I'll wait for your answer to share)

Both Creature and I are more likely to choose town. I'm probably the more likely out of the two to choose scum though.

This is a weird way to say this

[Irrelephant11]

Also my only potentially helpful partner thing is I think gemini would be more likely to choose a town role

[Irrelephant11]

Yeah I mean it's allowed for sure. But I also think it's fair to ask, so I'm not scumreading Gamma for being curious about it, and I think it's odd that you are (also your summary of it in 130 is a little misreppy). It was a quick turnaround in your behavior regarding Prof Fridays and when he asked it I also wanted to know the answer. Do you have much experience with Gamma?

All that said, the thing I noticed was that Prof Fridays didn't want to vote Gamma even while he admitted (admit being his word) that Gamma's behavior was overly aggressive to start out. I can't nail down a read on Gamma really yet and Prof Fridays isn't very towny so I'm noting this as an interesting potential associational thing i.e. Prof/Gamma could be the scumteam, if all our lurkers are town. Which... they probably aren't, but there you go.

[Irrelephant11]

what if it's ProFri and Gemini

nah.


@conversation: lurking is a super viable strategy employed by at least one scum in every game I've played, sometimes to greater effect than other times


Ircher I read your ISO a little bit to see if I could match this D1 play to another game of either alignment and I can't
why are you being different

Who wants to bet both scum have less than 5 posts?

[Irrelephant11]

gemini is my towniest read atm
the worst is also town still
gamma, sure, town
Ircher I'm not sure on anymore, I thought town at first but the new (meta-wise) aggression and misreppiness has ruined the townread
agree with tw that the professor doth protest too much or something. Definitely feeling like he's walking on eggshells around all us towntelling townhunters

Can't wait to have more than 6 players

[Irrelephant11]

Gamma's early posts, Ircher's later ones

That's most of it. ISO gemini if you want a townread

[Irrelephant11]

oh and everything professoridays has said how could I forget

[Irrelephant11]

alrighty folks let's kick this game up a gear

Hi hi

Before anything,

@mod I'm in V/LA until Wednesday!

It's Friday get gud


Anyone know, of the three lurkers, who is more likely to choose scum?

[Irrelephant11]

I’ll make some posts in the

next day or two

, maybe later.

Hey now
you're a lurker
get your game on
come playyyy

All that lurrrks get voOoOtes
we've got only so much tiiime
to hit scuUuUm

[Irrelephant11]

or each other

lol ewo same

[Irrelephant11]

I’ll make some posts in the

next day or two

, maybe later.

Hey now
you're a lurker
get your game on
come playyyy

All that lurrrks get voOoOtes
we've got only so much tiiime
to hit scuUuUm

You're not Not_Mafia

No, I'm not not not mafia

[Irrelephant11]

So idk if this is consensus but my feeling rn is that it's one of {Professor Friday, Ircher} and one of {the lurkers}

Are the people who have posted since I asked the question in 191 just not sure about anything regarding the lurkers?

[Irrelephant11]

I have no idea what those letters in that order means

but

any reads yet, leaf?

pedit: oh good love a party :party_hat:

[Irrelephant11]

I’m town reading ProfFriday, I think. He’s doing the most if he’s scum, and it seems unnecessary.

Disagree

, though I'm townreading you a little bit

Did a quick read-through of Prof Fridays and I actually do agree he's doing the most. I'm not sure it's especially pro-town, but it does seem less likely to come from scum, maybe. Hm...

Ah! Very good. I will take a twice-over this evening and get back to you.

In the mean time, VOTE: Irrelephant11

You're not the boss around here, y'know.

Professor you never said if you were voting me here because you thought I was actually scummy or not

I flounder with reads as town, because I frequently doubt myself (and especially so given the Transformers fiasco - which is mostly where my skepticism on Irrelephant is coming from)

Also, what does this mean?

Hoooooly shit I copy-pasted the wrong thing.

GeminiTwin12: leantown
Gamma Emerald: slight scum
Irrelephant11: slight town
the worst: nulltown
Ircher: slight town

Flavor Leaf/GuyInFreezer/northsidestory: like, literally nothing. Wtf.

What's stronger here: "leantown" or "slight town"
also what made/makes Ircher town in your opinion

[Irrelephant11]

Not to me it doesn't. What makes you think he might be scum?

[Irrelephant11]

Professor why did you just speculate on someone’s PR status???????

Oh good I’m already voting you. Like that’s not even setup spec, either. It just helps scum???

Ircher, Gamma, take a break from each other and join this wagon please

[Irrelephant11]

Wow not sure what to do about gamma and ircher actually following me onto the professor

I'm thinking town more than likely includes
me
the duck
the professor
the leaf
the twin
the emerald

leaving ircher, freezer, mutant. Hmm weird

Also what if it's flavorleaf and the worst

[Irrelephant11]

oh yeah I forgot I was voting him for a reason. Sorry I've been playing too many games the past week or so, thankfully one just ended and [redacted], so I'll be a little more able to keep my reads straight. Still, you two seemed really into scumreading each other, so it was still a little weird how quickly you both dropped it. I think you look worse from it than Gamma, possibly from conf!bias, but you're right that the professor should maybe still be in my lynchpool

honestly that reads list was more the reaction test while I catch up & re-read, which I'm still doing

[Irrelephant11]

you're already voting me. That's fair, I guess, though I agree that you seem to care a lot about how you're read

I'm gonna inspect that lynchpool I made more closely

pedit: that makes more sense, if that's who you meant to vote before

@Ircher what's your read of the professor rn?

[Irrelephant11]

Do tell

[Irrelephant11]

Professor why did you just speculate on someone’s PR status???????

Oh good I’m already voting you. Like that’s not even setup spec, either. It just helps scum???

Ircher, Gamma, take a break from each other and join this wagon please

Blah blah blah, you asked me why and I told you. To say I'm actively helping scum makes little sense, when 1.) I clearly have no info D1, 2.) they could just as well come to the same conclusion without it, and 3.) I regularly doubt

my own reads.

A wagon on me is cheap and speeding it up would make anyone more anti-town since GIF and NSS have said basically (or literally) nothing. I also like how Ircher is blatantly sheeping, and didn't take offense to my comment before you did, Irrelephant.

Like I said, I was explaining where my read came from. The VT role-spec was inextricably tied to my town read of you.

So it's super easy to just handwave the questions when PR-spec is the reason you're townreading someone rather than help scum identify who might be who. Like you don't *need* to say you think he's vt to change your read on him, even if that's your internal reasoning

At the same time I don't think scum are so willing to throw this out there? Keeping my eye on Professor but for now sorting as bad town

[Irrelephant11]

Wow I've been lazy as fuck and not a single vote on me

Now I wish I was scum

VOTE: GuyInFreezer
happy?

[Irrelephant11]

wtf is happening in this thread

mm but I'm right
tw lied so just try to tell me how he's town

why do I need more than a scumclaim to vote someone
the fact you haven't unvoted means you agree anyway

lied about what, who he played with? Is that seriously such a cardinal sin? I've made similar posts before.

and like it's not even a lie
let me pull up the thing I'm talking about where I did that thing

So your Leaf vote is serious, then? A way to get more AI content from them?

Gamma why defend the worst, who's one of two players to act scummy so far? Also, why are you voting the same player as him? Do you know something about the worst I don't?

Because you're making a mountain out of a grain of sand? How is his actions scummy? And why should me voting with tw matter unless I'm scumreading him? This post is just horrible.

I don't believe you.

Why, because you don't want your narrative blown apart?
VOTE: Irrelephant

All of these posts contain AtE.

I really disagree with this read

also why is ProfFridays asking terminology questions here rather than in his team pt?

I honestly feel he is going for that lynchbait feel. We should send more votes his way.

I do agree with this, though, it holds true even now

Yeah, no. You literally stated the reason.

You don't have to be new to be lynchbait.

Actually you JUST played with him, why do you think he does this having already played a game? The more I think about your reasoning the more off it feels.

No clue what Ircher was trying to say here. Ircher?

Ircher tell me why Gamma is scum and not just a flailing townie

General vibes and the way he is going about things.

Like for instance his latest "I was going to unvote then Ircher asked for more votes on me" post.

I've mentioned that this was misreppy. Ircher, do you still think this was the gist of his post?

See, this is why Gamma is scum. There's nothing really pingy about GIF's second post.

Agreed that the post Ircher is responding to is kinda scummy

It shouldn’t be.

I mean, I guess people act differently as PRs versus VTs, but for the most part, that shouldn’t factor into one’s reads.

True, but also saying this is pretty nai, so meh

Are you trying to discredit my knowledge of you now?

Because this:

I haven’t said something of more weight because there isn’t quite a lot to go by.

Gave me the impression that you thought I was right about my analysis and that your defence was that there isn't a lot to go on yet.

Do you want to change your defence to that I'm not familiar enough with you?

It’s both; the two aren’t mutually exclusive.

More experience would show that my reads (and effort in games) can vary significant based on how “in” to them I am.

Would you say you are very "in" to this game, Ircher?

Professor why did you just speculate on someone’s PR status???????

Oh good I’m already voting you. Like that’s not even setup spec, either. It just helps scum???

Ircher, Gamma, take a break from each other and join this wagon please

Wow not sure what to do about gamma and ircher actually following me onto the professor

I'm thinking town more than likely includes
me
the duck
the professor
the leaf
the twin
the emerald

leaving ircher, freezer, mutant. Hmm weird

Also what if it's flavorleaf and the worst

So you are telling me this ended up a reaction test? Because I honestly don't buy it as such.
VOTE: Irrelephant

This is actually a pretty fair response to what I did/said. I think Mutant's most recent post is worse

I'm having trouble knowing what to do with Ircher/Gamma/Professor. They have a lot of weird interactions at this point. I'm thinking both scum probably are not among these three, though, because I doubt scum's D1 strat here is to just get real messy interacting with each other. Not sure if it's more likely to be Ircher or if Ircher/Gamma are TvT and it's Prof. Or (small chance) these three are all town and scum doesn't feel the need to get involved?? I'm independently townleaning Gamma.

I townread everything gemini

says

, but not the way they feel so spectator-y

[Irrelephant11]

In general, I find something off about {Ircher, Prof Fridays, GeminiTwin12 & Flavor Leaf}. Idk why but I just feel like both scums could be in such pool as if you pick any 2 players from this pool then they make sense as a scum team.

Please talk more about these players individually. "any combo makes sense as a team" is a terrible reason to scumread individual players.
Also I find it odd that mutant's ISO has this lynchpool and then some "Ircher is scummy" posts and then his first vote is on me. I've proven to myself time and time again that I overreact to being voted and/or antagonized as town though so I'm trying to leave room on this read for others to comment

[Irrelephant11]

- I know it was a response. But you just quoted his words back at him and I didn't understand how that was an answer to his question. I should have asked at the time but didn't think to
- k
- I appreciate you /in ing, but it's interesting you say you're not very in to it. If your answer had been yes it would have explained a lot for me...
- I agree fypov you haven't done much other than interact with gamme and prof. It's not like that's all that's objectively happened though. What do you think of Flavor, mutant, or tw? Why are you so certain Gamma is scum if you don't feel like most of the playerlist can be read yet?
- k

[Irrelephant11]

I just think your time, if town, would be better spent trying to pull AI content from other players, rather than lynch a v active player with, I guess, the votes of the inactives?

Or like if you're unsure on tw he's around enough you could be interacting with him

If you're town I'd be surprised if your one D1 tunnel was scum when you hadn't yet sorted 1/2+ of the playerlist. Also your reads on Prof and me seem to both be scumreads, so like, is there *anyone* you think is town atm?

Gamma similar thoughts @you regarding Ircher, though I think you've been less problematic in regards to ignoring large swaths of the playerlist

ircher/mutant?

[Irrelephant11]

k work on that please and thanks. maybe ask questions, push some players, etc

in the meantime we have enough from you and gamma on each other so I would love it if you'd take a break and come back closer to end of day if it's still your strongest read

[Irrelephant11]

k work on that please and thanks. maybe ask questions, push some players, etc

in the meantime we have enough from you and gamma on each other so I would love it if you'd take a break and come back closer to end of day if it's still your strongest read

Half the game needs to do more stuff. That's basically all there is to it.

maybe ask questions, push some players, etc

[Irrelephant11]

Yes, obviously, but you make it easier for scum & lazy town to lurk when they can browse the game, see they're being ignored by the active players, and move on. It helps if you *try to interact* with mostly-empty slots, as that forces them to step it up or it will become obvious that their lurking is AI. I'm the relative newbie, not sure why I have to teach you to play mafia?????

Like so:
@GuyInFreezer, please provide your reads on Ircher, Gamme, and Prof Fridays. Do any of their interactions definitely seem like TvS?
and then give some reads on everyone else after that, please

mannnn I was townread tw but he seems to be satisfied with being townread and now he's getting quieter and I don't like that
Flavor Leaf if you're so charismatic come sheep my reads and turn them into effective wagons or something

[Irrelephant11]

@Gamma only the one sentence is directed at you. I was asking for more reads and more interactions with not-Ircher. Thanks for reads

And I never said that I scum read any of these individuals. I was just saying that you could pair any 2 of the individuals from this list and you could believe they're a scum team.

"Also I find it odd that mutant's ISO has this lynchpool and then some "Ircher is scummy" posts and then his first vote is on me" - You say that as though my vote on you came out of nowhere.

- I know, and that's a terrible reason for a lynchpool. It's early game, you can combine most players and make a realistic team. Why name those four players in particular? What about them is scummy?
-I'm not talking about your vote on me there, I'm talking about your *lack of vote* on Ircher

[Irrelephant11]

mutant are town

wait why

Help me see past the omgus

[Irrelephant11]

His 247 and 308 as we discuss on this page are also not obviously from a town mindset imo. Do you townread him? If so why?

[Irrelephant11]

Also, on your reaction test Irrelephant, did you gain anything from it?

Probably not - because getting your own reads wrong is hardly a reaction test. It's especially not a reaction test when you immediately reveal it after just 1 person picks up on it.

Like surely, if this was a reaction test and not a slip, he'd wait for everyone to chime in about it instead of immediately revealing it wouldn't he?

I mean normally, yes. But in this case I don't mean "I wrote this not because I believe it, but just to gather how everyone reacts". I mean "I wrote this because I'm trying to catch up, and this is what I thought I had maybe been thinking last time I was here, but I'm not sure, so let me just say it and see if it holds true". And then Ircher reminded me that I had actually been scumreading Prof Fridays for a reason (@Gemini this is what I got from it). And then I made the post you think is a scumslip

not voting (2): GuyInFreezer, GeminiTwin12

For glorious victory we should lynch one of these

thoughts?

mmm I think it's probably true that you get closer to victory by lynching here . Just can't decide if you're actually town, or spending your time looking town so that there will be other targets. Is there anything gemini has said that you scumread, or just his lack of vote? Also do you think GIF really plays this "HENLO AM LURKR" game as scum? Maybe he does, idk, but I've never seen anyone do it as eiter alignment

[Irrelephant11]

The last line of the second post kinda pings me, as it looks like scum who just wants to know how to control the conversation

That is actually my declaration of "I'm gonna be lazy"

stop

[Irrelephant11]

No, I already explained why I forgot my reads - I go V/LA on weekends, came back, and had five games to catch up on. Plus [redacted] [redacted] and [redacted]. Rules prevent me from really arguing against this, but please drop this point.

Because it was a reaction test of sorts. I wanted to see what people would say if I gave some estimation of my reads - I knew that if I misremembered anything someone would bring it up

[Irrelephant11]

?

Honestly I agree my play was messy in the way mutant thinks it was (I just disagree it's worth a vote) so I'm slightly surprised Gamma is going the extra mile to see it my way...

[Irrelephant11]

Oh yeah from little I read I remember townreading the elephant

That's nice, and also like one of the easiest reads you can give here
what are your thoughts on prof friday? tw?

[Irrelephant11]

Because I can see scum wanting to correct reads that don't fit their agenda

okay fair

[Irrelephant11]

I didn't say they're *definitely not* from town. I said it's not obvious to me that those posts come from town, when it seemed like those were what other players were townreading you for. I also already gave reasons why those posts confused me and didn't make sense, which can be an indicator that you're not my alignment.

I know it's just my word. Not sure what will be good enough for you if not my word, like?? Why ask if my answer can't ever be good enough?
I posted before doing ISOs because that was convenient for me at the moment - I wanted to share some thoughts, but didn't have time to go full in depth that very second because I was at work. I didn't care if I made a mistake because I knew someone would point it out. I didn't think a mistake would lead to this mess.

Someone tell me if this argument is a waste of my time because it doesn't feel like mutant wants to understand my perspective, he just wants to push. He's not necessarily scum for that reason but I haven't seen much to townread him, either, even after reading what Gamma suggested I read

- I know, and that's a terrible reason for a lynchpool. It's early game, you can combine most players and make a realistic team. Why name those four players in particular? What about them is scummy?
-I'm not talking about your vote on me there, I'm talking about your *lack of vote* on Ircher

Whoever said I wanted to lynch in that pool? I was just making a note of these players. I've given some thoughts on Ircher but for the rest of these individuals, they aren't scummy, the way they've been interacting from what I read just strikes me as something that intertwines well.

Why would I be voting Ircher? I'm fine where my vote is just as I was fine with not voting previously.

This comes across to me as as unbelievable as mutant finds my posts, honestly.

In general, I find something off about {Ircher, Prof Fridays, GeminiTwin12 & Flavor Leaf}.

I find it hard to believe this wasn't you giving a scum/lynch pool. Especially because if it

wasn't

a lynchpool, you have offered basically no reads since replace-in aside from scumreading me and Ircher.

Also I'm not suggesting you should be voting Ircher *now*, I'm saying it's weird that when you were writing these posts:

Right now I think Gamma is town and Ircher feels *different* which is giving me a scum twitch.

pls talk about both of these in more detail

When I was reading your posts I remember thinking "yeah, this is the stuff I had to deal with when I was scum" and I feel like Ircher should have said something with more weight by now which makes me feel like he has a little less care for this game - something I assume comes from scum!Ircher.

Are you trying to discredit my knowledge of you now?

Because this:

I haven’t said something of more weight because there isn’t quite a lot to go by.

Gave me the impression that you thought I was right about my analysis and that your defence was that there isn't a lot to go on yet.

Do you want to change your defence to that I'm not familiar enough with you?

Also, if you're going to talk about there not being enough sample size, isn't that what you kept saying to me throughout our PYP X/Y game? If I remember correctly, everyone I identified as town with my sample sizes of data were indeed town, leaving a very accurate lynch pool (though to be fair we had already lost at that point anyway).

I know that my meta-knowledge of you and my meta-knowledge of that setup are unrelated and completely different, but just don't go pulling the sample size argument on me.

You never voted Ircher. It was a scumcase without a vote to back it up. Why?

[Irrelephant11]

What made you think those 2 posts in particular were responsible for people town reading me?

They had the most AI content imo.

Do you not think it's scum indictive when player's reads change for no reason?

For no reason, yes. But I've already given part of my reason (forgetfulness - in fact I had given this reason before you voted me, and for some reason it's part of your vote), and the other part is [redacted].

no reads aside from town reading gamma and scum reading you* I never said I scum read Ircher.

Whilst I expressed reasons that Ircher is scummy, I don't actually scum read him at this time. I've played around with the idea that he is scum, expressed in the thread what has been going through my mind, but arrived at the conclusion that it isn't enough to scum read him fully. I'm likely to view Ircher with a more critical eye though, but that doesn't warrant a vote.

I mean you admit here that you have listed reason why Ircher is scummy. I will add that you have also not listed a single reason he might not be scum. Apparently my single post was enough for a vote, so I do find it scummy that you refuse to vote him despite listing multiple reasons he could be scum.

Also like I and others have said, your "not-a-lynchpool" list from one of your early posts is meaningless as associational data, and if it's not a set of scumreads it makes no sense to share. You can pick most pairs of players on D1 (heck, even us) and say they're a likely scumteam. You could have listed every single player in between those brackets. I haven't seen from you that you're doing any work to find pairs who cannot be scum together, so why did you list those four names specifically? I think it made a ton of sense as a lynchpool, but I think now that you've decided you'd rather have me lynched you feel the need to backtrack, say you haven't given many reads, that you might never give reads! (even though you say at the same time that you have two strong reads)

Your play makes zero sense to me so far. I would expect to understand something about your town mindset if we shared an alignment. I don't. VOTE: mutantdevle
This also explains why I thought there was at most one scum in the five or six players who have been active since daystart. I found the one who needed to be replaced.

[Irrelephant11]

@Gamma if you think mutant is town from some interaction you two shared I'm gonna need a quote or two with an explanation, I really didn't see it

[Irrelephant11]

Huh. I missed that last post from Gamma on re-read
UNVOTE:
I'll sheep Gamma on Mutant for now. I can see why my post would look like a scumslip since I can't give the full reason it looked like that without breaking site and/or game rules. I think I'll continue to be frustrated with your playstyle, mutant, but you're right that I'm pushing you mostly for difference of thought processes. I'm getting too caught up in this. I would love more eyes on this argument and if it says anything new about mutant's alignment.

In the meantime I need GIF and Flavor Leaf to unlurk, and tw to provide deeper thoughts than he has been.

[Irrelephant11]

tw say more about more things
ask questions
shake things up
quack

[Irrelephant11]

>:( bad duck
play with me

k so if the worst vouches for mutant, then either
mutant, duck, emerald, and twin are town
leaving ircher, professor, leaf, and freezer

or
{I was gonna supply an alternative set of ideas but it would just mean my reads are

really

off}

I think the former is more likely, though I'm not a reads wizard
I'll join the VOTE: GuyInFreezer wagon

[Irrelephant11]

one of icher/Friday with one of leaf/freezer feels right, but let me do some re-reading

[Irrelephant11]

wtf is happening in this thread

We're lynching scum. You should vote Flavor Leaf with me.

not yet
I can read him

faaaairly

well (?), so I want to let him post a bit more before coming to a conclusion

did you ever conclude on Flavor Leaf? I didn't see it

That wasn't me calling you scum
that was me saying you were likely to pick scum

This is true. I am likely to pick scum. However, RC and Tchill were potential players in the game, and I made my mistake of picking Mafia during Team Mafia.

Just now realizing this suggests Flavor Leaf had the choice. Otherwise I don't think he'd think about who he might have to go up against as scum.

I agree with what you said about Ircher. I’m thinking he could be scum, but I feel like he’s playing well enough that there’s absolutely no way we can make a case on him if he is. Does that make sense?

Not to me it doesn't. What makes you think he might be scum?

@Flavor Leaf

@TW - help me get here in this game. I need hag live back and forth, ducky. Any good craic?

hit me up my friend! My activity is a bit splotchy for the next few hours but LMK when you'll be around.

Lemme know what you think of Professor Friday and Gemini? and also Rel11--do you think he's powertowning or powerwolfing this phase?

The leaf had just given reads like three posts up about the professor - and you haven't followed up on this at all... tw what do you think of flavor leaf, and flavor leaf what's your read on the duck?

oh no mutant and I have the same scum PoE
except flavor has me slightly pocketed

can you please be town Mutant? I'll be so so happy

What do you now think of mutant's "scum PoE" now that he's said it's not a scum PoE?

ProFri= Null Scum unless their role spec post was on purpose to bullshit us somehow into not scum reading them for it. In retrospect Found it interesting that they called out the worst feeling like they're not playing the game when it's easy to get that same perspective from their postings as well.

This never actually happened - Professor Friday cleared up what he meant, and he was talking about lurkers. Does that affect your read on him?

@GuyInFreezer, please provide your reads on Ircher, Gamme, and Prof Fridays. Do any of their interactions definitely seem like TvS?
and then give some reads on everyone else after that, please

mannnn I was townread tw but he seems to be satisfied with being townread and now he's getting quieter and I don't like that
Flavor Leaf if you're so charismatic come sheep my reads and turn them into effective wagons or something

I would like to post this post again.

not voting (2): GuyInFreezer, GeminiTwin12

For glorious victory we should lynch one of these

thoughts?

mmm I think it's probably true that you get closer to victory by lynching here . Just can't decide if you're actually town, or spending your time looking town so that there will be other targets. Is there anything gemini has said that you scumread, or just his lack of vote? Also do you think GIF really plays this "HENLO AM LURKR" game as scum? Maybe he does, idk, but I've never seen anyone do it as eiter alignment

Also this, @tw

I don’t want to go after elephant, prof, or mutant today.

I could go GIF. If only because the fact I’m not getting scum pinged anywhere else generally means ScumGIF. It’ll bring her out anyways.

@Rel mutant is probably town
@mutant Rel did not scumslip

there, diplomacy with style.

Why did you quote flavor leaf here?

Irrelephant11, stop lining up oynches with pre-flip associations.

the worst feels like scum this game.

I didn't realize this was a thing I was doing. I'm mostly just trying to offer PoE? Like "these two are scummy but don't seem scummy together so I think I'd only lynch one of them". Is that somehow harmful to share?


@tw yes let's play

Ircher | mutant | the worst
-------------------------------
Friday | gamma | Irrelephant
-------------------------------
flavor | freezer | geminitwin

I'll use lynches, you use factional kills, first to three in a row wins

[Irrelephant11]

okay everyone you heard it here first ircher is the nk

[Irrelephant11]

@tw yes let's play

Ircher | mutant | the worst
-------------------------------
Friday | gamma | Irrelephant
-------------------------------
flavor | freezer | geminitwin

I'll use lynches, you use factional kills, first to three in a row wins

Is it wrong to townread this

I mean you should prolly omgus me, you're in the prime spot

[Irrelephant11]

I don't know what the official definition of "info snatch" is but boy do I like the phrase

I need more players to provide reads, I'm not sure we have anything resembling town consensus and most votes are on lurkers for lurking. We've got 4.5 days left I feel like it's time to start playing?? @Flavor, @GIF

Honestly the fact that I think Flavor had the choice to be scum or town makes me v seriously consider lynching there

[Irrelephant11]

Wrong that the player was scum or wrong that the player had the choice?

[Irrelephant11]

I mean it's 100% true that GIF has done nothing pro-town. I would not object to the lynch

pedit: that would explain Ircher's objection to my suggesting the scumteam has one of Ircher/Prof and one of Flavor/GIF as "pre-flip associations". He was maybe annoyed I called out the team?

At the same time GIF is a boring lynch, and he might just be busy... But. if we get nothing new/exciting from GIF I'd say maybe it is actually the best lynch? Lylo is potentially only two game days away and I'd rather not have him sitting there as town at this rate. Good scum equity, best town lynch = sure, if no improvement from the slot.

Also ewo you're right that I post lots as either alignment, so

[Irrelephant11]

can't because isn't

I mean GIF isn't responding to pressure but I've said that I'm willing to lynch there today
He doesn't get to come to lylo as either alignment at this rate
Kinda feels like he is intentionally providing 0 associations so a scumflip this game day will not link to the other scum
But we can leave him for now I guess if you want

VOTE: Ircher

[Irrelephant11]

I don't know what that code means

Why are you claiming at L-2?

Why did you choose that role?

UNVOTE:

[Irrelephant11]

How do we handle the 1-shot friendly neighbor claim? We have to leash it, right? If he survives the night we'll all be scumreading him and the player he friendly neighbors, yes?

How does vengeful work with lynches vs. nightkills?

[Irrelephant11]

nvm found it on the wiki. Okay, so he can't be vengeful scum, since that would make this game abnormal.
Hmmmmmmmm

[Irrelephant11]

Right but if he's scum and we leash his friendly neighbor ability we have a great chance at confirming his scum status overnight
The only way that would fail is if we are all townreading his sucm partner

Orrrrr if he kills the person we tell him to friendly neighborize crap

Everything about this role is new to me so hmmmmm

[Irrelephant11]

Wait no if his claim is true and we leash his pick, he would just die tonight, right?
You gotta nightkill a vengeful if you're scum because they're otherwise unlynchable
But we also have to leash his neighborize in case they leave him alive for the wifom
But yeah in that case his neighborize gets killed

Someone more clearheaded/experienced help me figure this out
We're probably not lynching Ircher since we can figure out his alignment by nightplay, I just haven't figure out how to guarantee that yet?

[Irrelephant11]

Anyone counterclaim?

[Irrelephant11]

you guyyysssss I'm LA on weekendsssss

who's the lynchhhhh and why aren't y'all playing

I won't vote tw/Ircher/gemini
I don't want to vote Gamma/mutant unless someone makes the most convincing case or all of my towniest reads really want to
I'll vote Prof/Flavor/GIF
Gonna park my vote on VOTE: Prof Fridays until further notice

[Irrelephant11]

fair & fair

I'll try to re-read before I go LA with town!Ircher in mind, idk if that will change my reads all that much though

If there's a helpful strategy regarding Ircher's role someone please do share

[Irrelephant11]

Did you?
Consider my vote on Ircher he's fake claiming and is scum from reading my chat with RC he makes a ton of points and is mostly ranting on how Ichers role doesn't exist (I agree)
paraphasing but "Why would a conf town slot be vengeful why would there be kpn power in a micro." "like you create a role to be a friendly neighbour and the +equity is that it survives, you create a role to be a vengeful and the point is that it gets mislynched"
The combo and over lap makes 0 sense

There's also a lot of rage that you guys are game throwing morons and gif being busy isn't a scum tell and that scum wouldn't be wagoned but that's wifom

Eh but explain what the scum play is here if fake claim

It won’t be confirmed overnight, so thennnn ???

[Irrelephant11]

radiantcowbells now plays in mariar's slot in this game.

I guess this is fine? but the time limit to do this had passed
Nothing against RC, it's just my friemd and I might have done this 48 hours ago if it was allowed
Too late now for it to be worth it so I'll just be annoyed and move on

[Irrelephant11]

I've said most of them and am watching because I don't have enough experience to say one way or the other how likely it is his role exists in this game

I thought he was scummy pre-claim
My friemd thinks town claims early more often than scum

So he's a nullscum read & I was planning to wait and see if he was confirmed over night.

[Irrelephant11]

Nah my friemd is less invested in this game rn which is fine.

I agree that each of those aspects makes him much harder to lynch rn
But also I'd say the pressure on him is to prove his role is real by making the right choice overnight on who to friendly neighbor, no?

pedit: scum PR is what I was not thinking of hmmm

[Irrelephant11]

I mean right but if we're in the same position

tomorrow

his new best town utility is to be lynched, regardless on if he's a failed neighbor or scum. We lynch him, problem solved

Scum PR is the only reason I'm now reconsidering this simple solution

[Irrelephant11]

Failed neighbor still being a good lynch because vengeful, I mean

Interested in the "watcher enabler" claim. Seems similar to Ircher's claim in terms of "don't-lynch-me" utility

[Irrelephant11]

lol

yes?

[Irrelephant11]

I don't mean that the two role claims are similarly unlikely but they

do

both have a "this might get proven later and I'm definitely useful to town" aspect that makes the slot harder to lynch

g2g

[Irrelephant11]

Honestly same, I was ready to join a Prof Fridays wagon so I'm confused about the choice here
Trying to avoid a protective? Is my only real guess

[Irrelephant11]

Is there any precedent for scum to be a watcher enabler? Because if not RC is basically confirmed town which would be nice

I'm baffled at the NK the more I look at EOD because Prof Fridays really looked the scummiest for NOT voting

Gonna start with VOTE: Flavor Leaf because that ISO is crap

[Irrelephant11]

Yeah I mean Ircher made a lot of bad choices

What do you think of the fallout?

[Irrelephant11]

lol ok

How are you reading Flavor Leaf?

[Irrelephant11]

sad but okay

[Irrelephant11]

Yeah I mean that sure does suggest at least one of gamma/tw/FL is on the scumteam

wait lol that's half of y'all

[Irrelephant11]

@tw how to you feel about mutant?
@gemini what's towny about mutant (at least in comparison to gamma)?

Gonna go re-read D1 now

[Irrelephant11]

Should be good.

VOTE: Gamma

weird how you're not voting scum

Why is that weird?

Scumslip? "Why is it weird I'm voting town?"

wtf is happening in this thread

We're lynching scum. You should vote Flavor Leaf with me.

not yet
I can read him

faaaairly

well (?), so I want to let him post a bit more before coming to a conclusion

did you ever conclude on Flavor Leaf? I didn't see it

Not too impressed rn, wouldn't defend him but don't feel like lynching him rn

These two in succession followed by today's Gamma v Flavor thing is interesting, not sure yet how to read it

So your Leaf vote is serious, then? A way to get more AI content from them?

Gamma why defend the worst, who's one of two players to act scummy so far? Also, why are you voting the same player as him? Do you know something about the worst I don't?

Because you're making a mountain out of a grain of sand? How is his actions scummy? And why should me voting with tw matter unless I'm scumreading him? This post is just horrible.

I don't believe you.

Why, because you don't want your narrative blown apart?
VOTE: Irrelephant

I still feel like this reaction is overblown

Irrelephant, I was kinda sad that people kept blasting scumreads on you for the cheap towncred when it was clearly far more effective to just let you keep doing what you were doing so you'd produce some non-forced readable content. I'm probably like 2% town on you for kicking lylo's ass at least.

Gamma~ hmm call it partially tonal to be fair. His reactions and kind of faint sass give me the impression he's approaching this game the way I'd expect town!Gamma to approach this game. It's a little difficult to explain properly when I'm 2/3 asleep do you not like him for town? /if so why not? M

This contradiction still bugs me out. Why suggest "people were blasting me for cheap towncred" when the only two players doing that were gemini/Gamma, and you townread Gamma for his reaction? Seems like the idea that you "were sad" is false - especially if/since it got you a townread and a scumread??

I kinda feel like Irrelephant was being super baity and Gem was just like *NOM*. ultimately it's not strongly alignment indicative but as I hinted earlier, her going in for what felt like cheap towncred is probably what's rubbing me the wrong way

We talked about it back then but gemini did the same thing as Gamma, only not as bad - I still don't get how tw gets a Gamma townread and a gemini scumread out of it.

I questioned why you were voting for Flavor Leaf because I wanted to hear an actual argument as to why other than gut feelings or whatever you wish to label it on d1 page 2. I'm aware that my vote still resides on them, still waiting to see more from them so I can gauge their play at all.

An interesting Flavor Leaf/Gemini association - Gemini RVS votes Flavor Leaf, then I blew up FL's spot, so gemini turned that RVS vote into a serious one. At the time I townread this post for being spewy, but maybe gemini felt the need to justify a vote, and that's why there are so many thoughts there?

This is getting long I'm gonna post it

[Irrelephant11]

Is there any precedent for scum to be a watcher enabler? Because if not RC is basically confirmed town which would be nice

[Irrelephant11]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Enabler

Wiki says usually, but not always town. So I'm not quiiiite ready to rule out scum RC, though the swap with MariaR is v v towny as it is. I'm ready to rule out the possibility of Gemini being RC's partner here though.

[Irrelephant11]

Gary king and the enablers
That's a good name for a band
Write it down Steve

tw I just realized your assertion scum were off wagon means you think it's me and/or mutant???
which

I mean show me scum mutant I guess because you're a big part of why I stopped scumreading him last game day

[Irrelephant11]

I think Irrelephant's day 2 posting has convinced me that they are town.

so mutant you think both scum were on wagon then

tell me who sticks out to you

[Irrelephant11]

Told you guys way early in this game, Prof Fridays was doing the most if he was scum.

why say this?

[Irrelephant11]

Lol
o
kayyyy

say more

pedit: oh my bad this has to start with "Lol"

[Irrelephant11]

Right now I think Gamma is town and Ircher feels *different* which is giving me a scum twitch.

pls talk about both of these in more detail

When I was reading your posts I remember thinking "yeah, this is the stuff I had to deal with when I was scum" and I feel like Ircher should have said something with more weight by now which makes me feel like he has a little less care for this game - something I assume comes from scum!Ircher.

okay cool
that had a couple of reason to it
1) me checking your read on me cos I wanted to ensure you had something behind it. I think that's a good thought process fyi.
2) I just wanted you to expand in general to help get a decent read on you. fyi: town read for now.
and btw what games have you played with Ircher?

The quote of Gamma’s i posted earlier was also directed towards Mutant. Interesting.

This is a pretty good argument

against

mutant/gamma. Try again?

[Irrelephant11]

Yeah avoiding producing AI content while town devours itself is a timeless strat : ]

tw I'll be watching you this game day

[Irrelephant11]

@everyone

come out to playyyy
especially tw

[Irrelephant11]

Back on track to Irrelephant, which makes sense because I feel they’ve been controlling this game anyways.

So I can see TownGamma/ScumIrrelephant.

lol

playing* the game anyways

I would love to talk more about this but just as an fyi I've been fighting my internet to try to get it to work consistently for like half an hour and I'll be v happy if this post goes through because another version got deleted by the page resetting against my will

[Irrelephant11]

Told you guys way early in this game, Prof Fridays was doing the most if he was scum.

why say this?

Hey, I’m Boonskiies. I say a lot of things. Like a lot of things. One of the most obnoxious players on site, and proud of it.

But this is why I lurk. I have my thoughts, then people like to turn it around on me.

Those are my thoughts. I easily could be wrong, I’m aware of that.

Instead of turning it around on me, which is scummy, just see where I’m coming from and play accordingly. If I’m money, I’m giving you a key to get off, of town, then gotta try to work it out anyways

I
what?
I literally just wanted to know why you said this
Like if anything it was a reason to townread you because scum sometimes says "see I told you so" about lynches but not about nightkills
But this reaction is wow

Right now I think Gamma is town and Ircher feels *different* which is giving me a scum twitch.

pls talk about both of these in more detail

When I was reading your posts I remember thinking "yeah, this is the stuff I had to deal with when I was scum" and I feel like Ircher should have said something with more weight by now which makes me feel like he has a little less care for this game - something I assume comes from scum!Ircher.

okay cool
that had a couple of reason to it
1) me checking your read on me cos I wanted to ensure you had something behind it. I think that's a good thought process fyi.
2) I just wanted you to expand in general to help get a decent read on you. fyi: town read for now.
and btw what games have you played with Ircher?

The quote of Gamma’s i posted earlier was also directed towards Mutant. Interesting.

This is a pretty good argument

against

mutant/gamma. Try again?

Irrelephant, like every single thing you have asked me is just a your perspective based thing. I could go and answer them all, but it’s basically me saying the exact same thing.

You’re just playing devil’s advocate at that point.

I disagree that that quote is an argument against them, especially with Gamma.
Like, any of my answers are just going to be repeating the same posts, because that’s how I see it. Just because you see a different way, doesn’t make me wrong.

I’ve had this argument with many people, and have been shown to be correct in the long run of things.

In regards to this. You said you thought Gamma was scummy and his 255 was an awesome scum post from him, because he got a town player (in mutant) to like him in a subtle way. Then it seemed like you were including that as a reason to believe gamma/mutant was the team. I was already using that post as a reason to think they are not a team. So "try again" here means "I think you're wrong about the team, see what else you find".
Now that you've done something similar with me and the worst it kind of feels like you're just throwing quotes at the wall and seeing what sticks.

If it matters, I got what I needed out of Gamma/Mutant now. Don’t think they’re partners, but one of them is scum with one of my town reads.

lol

Scum generally likes to target me in this situation. In theory, that’s a town tell on my part.

I control games as scum. Gamma knows this.

I’m toying with the idea, Gamma, that you’re just being abused by potentialScumIrrelephant. But there’s 0% chance scum isn’t on me right now.

You've appealed a lot to meta and a LOT to meta regarding games you and Gamma have both been in. Gamma, is that a reason to townread or scumread him?
Oh but also I quoted this because "I control games as scum" literally feels like your introduction here to trying to now get control of the game, so that's awk for you regardless of alignment

VOTE: Irrelephant

I actually think this is pretty obv scum when you think of it back. That “try again?” Comment really fucked you over, tbh. You don’t have a town trajectory. You’re projecting a town mindset, but you aren’t projecting the trajectory.

@Gamma - Well, guess it makes sense you’re on me, and i don’t know how to convince you otherwise. As scum, I’ve had you in the same spot that Irrelephant has you in.

"You're projecting a town mindset, but you aren't projecting the trajectory" makes no sense to me so please do elaborate.

VOTE: Irrelephant

I actually think this is pretty obv scum when you think of it back. That “try again?” Comment really fucked you over, tbh. You don’t have a town trajectory. You’re projecting a town mindset, but you aren’t projecting the trajectory.

@Gamma - Well, guess it makes sense you’re on me, and i don’t know how to convince you otherwise. As scum, I’ve had you in the same spot that Irrelephant has you in.

UNVOTE:
I'm not sure about what you're bringing to the table with Irrelephant but you are at least demonstrating depth, which is what I felt was lacking in your play in mini 1996. Please answer my questions still please.

@Gamma he's now just doing the same thing regarding me he was just doing regarding you. Throwing "this pair makes sense" around while quoting random things and not explaining what makes them scummy. The only other point he's made is parroting why RC started to scumread me: "shading" RC's early hardclaim when he was in a sort of similar position to Ircher when he claimed (multiple votes from being lynched). I now agree RC is almost definitely town, but I don't want scum!RC to get by on a fake claim or a scum PR-that-looks-towny and it's sort of weird imo that I'm the only one to question it.
Anyway, what about this turn from Flavor Leaf gives him "depth" that he didn't have when pushing you?

Ducky is town for general curiosity, and i feel like ducky’s givig me a fair chance when scum him really has no needn’t to do that.

In my experience, Scum don’t go after RC really that early. Generally go alongside him, so i’m leaning townnon Gemini.

Irrelephant listens to a lot of logic, and kind of makes no sense coming from a scum perspective. I always feel like i get a fair shake with him.

RC isn’t pinging my scumdar at all, and pushing ircher the way he did is a pretty town RC thig to do.

That’s 4 town reads.

That literally leaves Gamma and Mutant for me.

I’ll look more into mutant, because I don’t scum read there, but POE says that he is.

If "giving me a fair chance" gave you townreads on both me and the duck, but you're now sure we're the two scum...

Tbh, Gemeni’s been giving me chances, and I don’t think ScumGemeni would actively try to buddy me here, especially with my inactivity. I don’t think they know buddying me is the way to my heart as scum. That leans me towards TownGemeni.

...Why does that work as a reason to townread Gemini?

[Irrelephant11]

Well it doesn't help us sort anyone alive so I wondered why bring it up before endgame? It seems like your answer is "it's a personality thing it's NAI" which is fine but the fact that me asking you that question inspired a full-on OMGUS makes me think you've got a little too much survivalism

[Irrelephant11]

I mean my reasoning for scumreading you has certainly changed, yes. Less based on activity, more based on what seems to be fake reads that you can pick up and drop with little to no real reasoning.

Yes, you've tried again

Please respond to my other points from last page:
- how your townreads of me/tw/gemini are VERY similar and quick to disappear
- how you were certain at least one of mutant/gamma had to scum and then in the next breath decided it was me/tw
- "'You're projecting a town mindset, but you aren't projecting the trajectory' makes no sense to me so please do elaborate."

pedit: Bullcrap. I'm trying to sort you and discovering that the more I push on you the more you push on me. I don't know yet whether you're more likely to have that reaction as town or scum, so I haven't settled on your alignment, no. I don't know anyone's alignment atm. But me pointing things out and asking about them isn't scummy. It's scumhunting.

[Irrelephant11]

You keep bringing up "try again" like it's proof of something??? It literally just meant "I don't think you've caught two scum, but I like the work you're putting in, please try again". Then you did (cool, not a problem, not why I'm scumreading you), and it seemed to

completely discount your own reasoning for

four

of your six reads

. The fact that you're using the same reasoning now to townread gemini and leave her out of your PoE that you WERE using to townread tw and I before turning things around means I don't believe you believe your own reasoning. If you did, it would be harder for you to make such a dramatic shift in >1/2 your reads with so little progression

pedit: You used the same words regarding Gemini as tw and I so I don't believe you that it's "very different" but I'll stop here. I'll let others come in and sort this one out because I'm too caught up in my feelings about this to read it clearly

[Irrelephant11]

Did you feel he had depth when pushing you this game day?

I'll look for the post

[Irrelephant11]

Right now I think Gamma is town and Ircher feels *different* which is giving me a scum twitch.

pls talk about both of these in more detail

When I was reading your posts I remember thinking "yeah, this is the stuff I had to deal with when I was scum" and I feel like Ircher should have said something with more weight by now which makes me feel like he has a little less care for this game - something I assume comes from scum!Ircher.

okay cool
that had a couple of reason to it
1) me checking your read on me cos I wanted to ensure you had something behind it. I think that's a good thought process fyi.
2) I just wanted you to expand in general to help get a decent read on you. fyi: town read for now.
and btw what games have you played with Ircher?

The quote of Gamma’s i posted earlier was also directed towards Mutant. Interesting.

This is a pretty good argument

against

mutant/gamma. Try again?

Irrelephant, like every single thing you have asked me is just a your perspective based thing. I could go and answer them all, but it’s basically me saying the exact same thing.

You’re just playing devil’s advocate at that point.

I disagree that that quote is an argument against them, especially with Gamma.
Like, any of my answers are just going to be repeating the same posts, because that’s how I see it. Just because you see a different way, doesn’t make me wrong.

I’ve had this argument with many people, and have been shown to be correct in the long run of things.

I think I see what you were

trying

to say here but it got conflated in word choice. You probably just meant interesting in a general sense and Irrel thought you meant it was something that aided your gameview.

It's true that I thought this was part of Flavor Leaf's push on a gamma/mutant scumteam. @FL, was it?

[Irrelephant11]

I'm not pushing a narrative, it's been brought up as a reason to scumread me and I'm trying to explain my mental state at the time. I did happen to think that your slot might still get lynched because of GIF's play, so your claim seemed similarly reactionary. We were discussing Ircher's claim and how it would/wouldn't prevent his lynch, so I brought it up re:your claim honestly just for fairness' sake. I don't have experience with that many roles, how likely they are to be in different sized setups, etc. so Ircher's wasn't wildly unbelievable to me at first glance - neither was yours, so I asked about it to learn more.

You're my top townread and I haven't re-read your replace-in yet but iirc you didn't come across as scum who knew Ircher was fakeclaiming, you were indignant town mad about his scum fakeclaim. I don't want your lynch any time soon, I'm just turning over every stone

[Irrelephant11]

let's see.

see what? Do you have a question? a case?

[Irrelephant11]

ha
yes, actually, though

[Irrelephant11]

welcome back RC what are your reads

[Irrelephant11]

Any thoughts on sorting us four yet?

I want to say that flavor leaf/tw wouldn't do a 1-2 vote thing on me but I recently learned that is 100% tw's style. tw and Gamma also voted together twice last game day and I want to rule them out but daychat is a thing and again, tw.

mmm I have a thought I'm gonna go re-read about

pedit

1

2

3:

great, thoughts. I'll be back soon with a couple

[Irrelephant11]

So I know I bought Ircher's fake claim, but I went back to see others' reactions. Scum would know Ircher is town and after RC's replace-in would know he's probably fake claiming. So I went back to see if anyone seemed like they knew he was town while disbelieving his claim (aside from Prof Fridays who, like I said, I was ready to wagon this game day for this reason). I also just wanted to see who got all up in the IrcherClaimConversation and who kept a distance

We would have to wait/see who his neighborize result is and go from there. His claim feels oddly specific to be fake, unless he's desperate to stay alive.

Basically my thought at the time. Believes the claim.

Wtf, I don't understand this thinking here. You realise the mod's design for this setup isn't bound by such logic? A role with such juxtaposition could exist for this exact reason.

Believes the claim.

]Ugh, this isn't a good sign.....
VOTE: Radiant

no it's not. for you.

no one on the NRG would have ever passed that abomination of a role. throwing a vengeful into a 9p game is a major faux pas without some serious mitigating factors. why would a friendly neighbour, on its own, be one shot in the context of a 9p game where the swing of it failing completely determines the game? on top of that why would you ever give the confirmed town role a vengeful that forces a slot that gets value from its inability to be lynched to be lynched to be utilized correctly.

but it's a fakeclaim scum would make because it's the ultimate deterrent to lynching the role. he's simultaneously claiming to be confirmed town in the future making people not wanting to lynch him for that, while giving himself the out of claiming that his target was the one that died / claiming that he was roleblocked tomorrow because it's only one shot. it's a survival claim and nothing else

also yall are out of your fucking minds lynching gif he lost his job and didn't have time to play the game and on top of that he hasn't played scum in several years. I don't particularly desire to play scum but he is never given the scum slot of the pair of us, not that it ever came up because we got two town slots. even ignoring that the implication that if he were scum with me able to hard coach him the best he could do is not post is insulting to both of us.

Doesn't believe the claim and is furious at Ircher for the stupid fakeclaim and everyone who believed it.

Am I supposed to dislike Radiant or sheep him? I can't remember what people said in previous games I've played.

Kinda just ignored the content of RC's post.

like we wait to tomorrow, there's obviously no FN out, we lynch him but if he's a scum PR that gives him a night to act and I suspect that he is based on this play.

Something true about potential!scum!Ircher that I don't think actual scum would think of, since they know he's either telling the truth or gambit-ing.

@Profri, how about some thoughts on what's going on? What do you think of RC so far? What about flavor leaf?

Do you at least see that Ircher's claim contains scum motivation regardless of whether you believe that that was their intention?

I agree with you on your thoughts behind why we voted GIF, most of here can.

I'd put RC as null town atm, no one else's standings haven't really changed much for me to give new alignment readings..

Bolded is worded weird. Like maybe Gemini knew Ircher didn't actually have scum motivation? Or it might just be from talking to ProFri, who townread Ircher despite the claim.

VOTE: Irrelephant

Yeah I think this is scum regardless of anything else

This was weird, with RC thinking Ircher was most certainly scum fake-claiming.

Ftr if your slot is actually town, not that I think it is, Irrelephant would be my first pick for scum

ProfFri is mostly his sorting you is incredibly svs

I agree with this, and prolly won't move my vote off ircher unless he like townspews aggressively

you really had to come in here and yell that Rel is scummy? way to put his guard up

I just caught this and

hey how did you know about my guard going up at scumreads?

what to take out of this:
ircher fakeclaimed a provable town role then confessed he fakeclaimed it as a gambit

"Confessed" = tw knew it was a fakeclaim gambit? Wouldn't someone without that knowledge say something like "tried to pass it off as..."?

Yeah that's actually not helpful because I can actually get lynched here nowadays but
I'm doing what I'm doing for a reason and that will be clear at some point

A year ago I would do something very different from what I am doing right now here because I wouldn't be afraid of getting lynched for it.

I don't have that kind of leverage so I'm just going to shut up and say that I think Ircher should die regardless of his alignment

wanna lynch profri instead?
I kinda feel swindled because of how much I want Ircher dead but also spicy lynch???

not today

Ircher should be lynched, regardless if he's town or not as policy for lying.

omg please yes

I'll hydra with you in a game if you do

Pretty sure I understand RC in these last few posts from having used a game he was in awhile ago as a meta read for someone else one time. i.e. RC thought Ircher was town but wanted him policy lynched without having to say that... Which I don't think scum would hint at?

Out of this I got a little bit of "hmmmm" on mutant (ignored the claim, mostly) & tw ("confessed"), my reasoning for townreading RC was shaken up a bit, but probably that read still holds because of the Watcher flip. Anyone find this helpful? I spent like 30 minutes straight on it so please say yes

[Irrelephant11]

yo Rel how do you rate this wagon?

I rate it a 4.6

I'd consider joining but not ready for L-1 yet
Bye till tomorrow <3

[Irrelephant11]

that doesn't feel like a schadd_ role off first impressions (but also first impressions remind me schadd_ is notttttt predictable soooo

I'll trust it if you friendly neighbourise me but potentially not if you neighbourise anyone else ngl?

feels kinda weird having a role with two town conformable aspects or like, a role with any conformable aspects in a mini, but it's conformable and self resolving ao this is just a quick peak into the ducky brain

Rel why did you ignore this post and talk about stuff that isn't relevant

Did I not quote this? I thought I did. Weird.
Not sure it's that AI though because you sorta disbelieve the claim but don't scumread him for it - actually what am I saying this is exactly what I thought scum would do
But so is what Prof Friday did
hm

I think it’s just Irrelephant/TW. Small chance of Irrelephant/RC, but that’s just because I’m paranoid of RC pulling the wool over my eye.

I don’t have much real reason for why my Mutant read has changed, but I don’t like TW hopping on there, and then Irrelpahnt seemingly fine with it and likely to join it.

Well you and Mutant are at the bottom of my PoE so

FL where did you stop townreading me? breakin my heart fam

ikr

[Irrelephant11]

Okay so I just re-read some of my own games

And what I learned is that when flips surprise me (as both have so far) I need to re-evaluate my townreads
Sigh. This is gonna be a difficult day

[Irrelephant11]

Shoshin wants this

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

[Irrelephant11]

She changed her mind. Apparently she hadn't read enough yet
UNVOTE:

We just decided to take a break from our own games and skim each other's for advice

[Irrelephant11]

We were both getting a little tired of the one we were playing and we wanted to switch too late so here we are

[Irrelephant11]

Shoshin doesn’t seem that interested in mafia at all rn so I guess I’m back

I’m townreading RC and Gemini
I don’t think tw and Gamma are partners? Yeah tw likes to mess with vca but it’s bold to vote together consistently most of D1 and also they don’t feel very partner-y.

In Gamma v the worst I like tw’s tone more but I like Gamma’s pushes and play more. On the other hand both dead players were scumreading Gamma so I shouldn’t count him out yet I guess.

Still, I think some combo of FL/Mutant/tw(/Gamma if these pairs don’t work) is where I’m looking first. Gut says mutant/FL would be a weird combo, so I’ll come back to that one. tw/mutant? Would explain tw voting for mutant with basically no reasoning and only after someone else pushed there first

VOTE: the worst because it’s starting to feel like you’re stalling play and you said yourself this game your scum time has improved.

As an aside I don’t like your (FL) appeal to RC’s votes on me both game days as a reason to scumread me. RC basically OMGUS’d me both times and if you’re town!Flavor I’d love to see deeper thinking than you’ve shown either game day. Gamma seems to vouch for your ability there, so I can’t wait to see it.

[Irrelephant11]

Wait this isn’t L-1 anymore VOTE: mutant

[Irrelephant11]

“ok” like “you caught us” orrrr

[Irrelephant11]

But seriously what’s your thought process

As the game goes on I feel like most of your real thinking is going on behind the scenes. That can be town sometimes but if you’re town I’d expect to have seen more of your real thinking by now

[Irrelephant11]

I’m 100% literally not the only player to give my lynchpool? So that’s BS as a reason to scumread me

tw you have not actually responded to my points about you, you’ve just OMGUS’d me. Actually wtf all three votes on my slot have been OMGUS’s posing as scumreads???

[Irrelephant11]

My thought at the time was “tw looks scummy in relation to mutant vote:tw”
“Oh wait the smarter thing to do if they’re a pair is vote mutant

with

tw vote:mutant”

[Irrelephant11]

Im not mechanically scum. That’s how MYLO/LYLO works, not D2

If someone is interested in hammering this early (we have over a week left FYI), please give warning

Lots of players voting me, two of which have given basically no reasoning
Analyze the wagon yourselves

Sorry that my loss of interest in this game (and he fact that Shoshin hasn’t picked it up) means I’m left looking scummy
If anyone has like questions for my slot??????
Let me know

[Irrelephant11]

@FL you’re the only one on my wagon who has provided reasoning for voting me imo

Not claiming if I don’t need to

@tw which slots?

[Irrelephant11]

I agree as a rule but I find it weird you’d bring that up since it points mostly back to you and RC

[Irrelephant11]

??????????????

No, sorry, this has gotten too silly. "lockscum"???? lol
I'm stepping it up today because no way are we lynching

me

in this game state
RC I need your explanation for the tw vote

I'm pretty positive 1 of mutant/FL is scum here because lollllll this conversation is silly
Maybe both? Kinda feels like scum theater, honestly

Anyway mutant you can't intent to hammer since there's now only two votes on me. But welcome back - please do tell why FL is right and what about me/gemini reads scummy to you

[Irrelephant11]

Oh come onnnnnnn
Long post deleted by browser reset ughhhhhhhh

I'll try again later

[Irrelephant11]

In general, I find something off about {Ircher, Prof Fridays, GeminiTwin12 & Flavor Leaf}. Idk why but I just feel like both scums could be in such pool as if you pick any 2 players from this pool then they make sense as a scum team.

Please talk more about these players individually. "any combo makes sense as a team" is a terrible reason to scumread individual players.
Also I find it odd that mutant's ISO has this lynchpool and then some "Ircher is scummy" posts and then his first vote is on me. I've proven to myself time and time again that I overreact to being voted and/or antagonized as town though so I'm trying to leave room on this read for others to comment

Why is the "menacing voice but liking the posts" thing only from a town POV?
Also @Gamma were you saying you agreed with mutant (which is how FL seems to be reading your post)?

Flavor Leaf, how do you reconcile that you have completely contradicted almost every one of your own reads this game day (with the exception of only RC, I think)?

[Irrelephant11]

lol not sure how that quote got there
It was part of the long post, actually? weird

[Irrelephant11]

So your thought is

"In past games, I usually am wrong at first and right later on"
"Therefore whatever I think first is wrong and whatever I think later is right"
?

Can you link me to some of the games you're referencing?

[Irrelephant11]

Please talk more about me/gemini out loud like you did for mutant/gamma

Please also link me to those games if you're not already doing that

[Irrelephant11]

I'm reading these, as well as a couple others because if you're scum you can just link me to the ones you feel like you're doing a good job copying.

This post feels applicable to tw/gamma's confusion about my vote on mutant

In the meantime can you do the me/gemini team analysis I asked for and maybe also summarize your scumread on me?

[Irrelephant11]

Okay, that's fair. I'm still reading 'em, though.

I don't see how it's logical for you to say, though, "Since I was wrong once already this game, my next guess has to be right". Sounds like you just benefit from re-evaluating? I also mostly don't remember/understand your scumcase on me, so I can't even help with that yet. I think I'm maybe townreading you rn but given some of your bragging in your IC game about your track record I'm not going to settle so quick. If you are town, though, I like that you have stepped it up this game day (tw, mutant, and gemini definitely have not). I think you're over-tunneled, though.

Also you didn't answer this:

Why is the "menacing voice but liking the posts" thing only from a town POV?

[Irrelephant11]

gemini what are your reads

[Irrelephant11]

@FL

Also you didn't answer this:

Why is the "menacing voice but liking the posts" thing only from a town POV?

[Irrelephant11]

Can you tell me more about the mutant read?

[Irrelephant11]

what?

[Irrelephant11]

He quoted things to analyze whether or not you made sense as a pair. Based on how that went, he changed his mind on both you and mutant. I'm asking him to do the same here. He keeps throwing out possible pairs for me (because I'm apparently "lockscum") but isn't showing any analysis for if any of those pairs make sense. I want to see him do that work or stop making up associations that don't exist so he can keep calling me "lockscum"

[Irrelephant11]

"a bunch of effort elsewhere"?? I'm literally asking you over and over to explain your thoughts on me, quote things, make a clear case so I and others can respond

Also re:"I explained my town read on the others"
--> No you didn't, because this is my fourth time asking why gamma/mutant are cleared just because mutant reads your posts with a menacing tone

@FL

Also you didn't answer this:

Why is the "menacing voice but liking the posts" thing only from a town POV?

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

He's misrepping me a lot this game day, leaving logic at the door in his attempts to "PoE" and call me "lockscum", and has not even really made a case on me. He was an active lurker D1, and he's only stepped up his activity this game day because enough players here know his meta that he had to step it up to survive (especially given how tw and Gamma both remember his penchant for random NKs). If he's town, show me things that can only come from town!FL, because I just can't see it anymore.

Like if anyone wants I can make the quote wall that shows how FL has just thrown all townreads & logic out the window in his pursuit of my mislynch but I think y'all are more than capable of reading his ISO. Doesn't even really read like he thinks I'm scum - he's just hoping that if he says it enough times I'll start to get votes.

tw's my best guess for partner, but that long post I had been working on was mostly quotes of associational stuff from D1 and in it I learned that mutant/FL isn't that unlikely, either. Especially given FL's unexplained "Mutant is seemingly pushing a scum trajectory with his recent postings, however because of that one post, the menacing, but like the posts, I understand that as well, and that I feel can only be seen from a town perspective" from 1042

Getting frustrated with the general lack of activity, though, from a lot of slots. Like why does it feel like FL and I are the only two players lately?
@tw you've provided basically no analysis that I would honestly expect from you regardless of alignment?? But moreso from town!you
@Gemini please go deeper with those reads soonish
@Gamma how are you reading me/FL?
@RC I know it's hard to care (I've felt similar at points this game day) but please at least explain the tw vote

Hmmmmm starting to wonder if I should be townreading FL just for activity

pedit: but last page Gamma said that's not what he meant - he wasn't agreeing.
pedit2: but WHY is it more likely to come from town? You can't answer that with "because I think it comes from town" and expect me to just be fine with that

[Irrelephant11]

oh and mutant hasn't posted like any real reads at all this game day
wtf

[Irrelephant11]

I mean if you're saying that you'd tunnel me incorrectly as town then maybe I did

[Irrelephant11]

I'm interested enough to see where this goes
and also getting tired of us tunneling each other

so sure
UNVOTE:
talk to me about gem

[Irrelephant11]

I've had the twin in my towpool almost all game
I could see the slot being my blind spot

is there anything from them you want to talk about first?

[Irrelephant11]

I mean mutant did try to follow you on to me with the hammer
tw also literally did follow you

[Irrelephant11]

yeah, I can assume town!Flavor for awhile to see where it leads me

I'm not sure I understand your point about Gemini not following you onto me --> therefore scum.

I agree scum might not want to vote together, but tw has a history of messing with VCA

by

voting together (at least in our last game together)

gem has sort of been coasting, though, I agree

[Irrelephant11]

Hmmm maybe
I did have lots of moments D1 with both of them where I was like "ooh yes good question good post" but neither has kept that up this game day
And also now that I think about it a lot of the stuff I agreed with related to finding Ircher and Prof scummy, so it's not like they were objectively right

[Irrelephant11]

If you think it's tw/gem what makes gemini the better lynch?

[Irrelephant11]

Asking because apparently RC feels confident it's tw and I don't see enough associational stuff to say this has to be the team

[Irrelephant11]

Also I do think given the choice gemini chooses town so there's that

[Irrelephant11]

Also the fact that gemini called her hammer on Ircher a policy vote comes across as towny to me too
I think scum just says they don't believe him
Town says the player deserves to be punished for lying and hurting town's team wincon

[Irrelephant11]

Also I do think given the choice gemini chooses town so there's that

Maybe I shouldn't think this she plays a great scum game based on looking at Newbie 1851

[Irrelephant11]

I don't need a link, I believe you that that happened.

Why am I a scumlean? And what are your other reads?

[Irrelephant11]

What is FL saying about me?

[Irrelephant11]

I guess that's fair, since I have pretty consistently townread you. Not sure what else I've done to get you on my good side though. I forgot he brought that up

Still townreading you fwiw, since I don't think scum care if I get them on my good side and with momentum starting to leave my lynch I assume scum!you drops the scumread of me in favor of an easier mislynch (assuming town!FL, who scum!you would be following)

[Irrelephant11]

So basically I townread the fact that you're not joining FL on the gemini train, which is I guess a conditional townread that assumes both town!FL and town!GT
Another way of saying this I guess is that I think your only two plausible partners at this point are FL and gemini

[Irrelephant11]

Is that to me? I was saying that Gamma/FL and Gamma/GT12 are Gamma's only realistic scum partners
As part of why I'm townreading him, since I townread both of you individually (less sure on FL, but we're going with it for now)

[Irrelephant11]

And if lynching town!you proves later that FL is scum, then your death would be worth it and you wouldn't die in vain.

yuck
this as a reason to give intent to hammer?

[Irrelephant11]

Every time I say that FL is scum, it rubs you the wrong way. Makes me think that I'm most likely correct on your slot. And your supposed thought(s) that I'm trying to set up a future misslynch is bs. My scumread on you is because I can't *get with* some of your 'reasons" /thoughts, it's mostly encased in PoE - which feels likes it's easy to throw in and say for lack of real reasons. And I asked you if you had thoughts that don't surround PoE so that I can get a sense on whether you're genuinely trying to sort.

Who is this to?

[Irrelephant11]

oh and mutant hasn't posted like any real reads at all this game day
wtf

Lol what? I stated early in this day that I thought you were town. I also explained who I was in the processes of sorting and who I felt the most need of sorting and I'm sure, if you were to ISO me, you'd be able to track the progress I've made in that sorted. My recent posts can show how I've reached a conclusion for now.

this has turned out to be true

[Irrelephant11]

why not gemini/tw?

[Irrelephant11]

I mean I'm individually townreading gemini
I just don't see how you can rule out so many partner pairings

[Irrelephant11]

I say that because I've tried to do a lot of ruling out (or at least earlier this game day that was on my mind a lot) and while gemini doesn't seem likely to be your partner I see pretty much every other player as a possible partner
Which
I think I read somewhere that you should usually townread that player,,,

Anyway. I agree gemini is a bad lynch and I'll VOTE: the worst

pedit: oh true

[Irrelephant11]

lol that was shortlived

You haven't really responded to the

reasons

I townread gemini?
What do you make of her EOD1?

[Irrelephant11]

people are literally seriously considering the {lurker, bored guy} scumteam

Show me any pair of players this game day that can't be described this way

[Irrelephant11]

yay I think we did it

[Irrelephant11]

haha I mean I agree with your case and am mostly just waiting for a response. I'm already voting where I'd like

[Irrelephant11]

ALso, just putting it out there, RC’s partner thinks my partner is scum, so that means you have to believe that me and my partner are both scum.

I don't think this is allowed

[Irrelephant11]

viewtopic.php?p=10350481#p10350481

pedit: k I'll not comment further on it then

[Irrelephant11]

Moving on from that, Irrelephant. Let’s go back to our town on town, even if we have to fake it. Talk to me.

K

why is tw anywhere above the bottom of your list? Off the top of my head I only remember you saying he's done some really impressive AtE toward you. Without meta context that sounds like a reason to scumread him

Why is RC, the semi-confirmed enabler claim, lower than the top of your list?

I'm about here

RC
Gamma
Gemini/Mutant
Flavor Leaf
the worst

[Irrelephant11]

Why is RC, the semi-confirmed enabler claim, lower than the top of your list?

Wait, what about RC's role has been confirmed?

He claimed watcher enabler before the watcher flipped

[Irrelephant11]

I know, I've brought that up, but enablers in general are much more likely to be town according to the wiki, and it's an annoyingly effective fakeclaim for such a small game if scum

[Irrelephant11]

I know, I've brought that up, but enablers in general are much more likely to be town according to the wiki, and it's an annoyingly effective fakeclaim for such a small game if scum

postulation: what if it was an informed mafia?

I've also wondered this and tried to bring up "what are the possibilities here" a couple times and gotten shut down each time
Still, it has the same "too good a fakeclaim" effect imo unless town has a rolecop or something

[Irrelephant11]

@gemini what do you make of RC's case on FL/tw?

[Irrelephant11]

agreed that that's not an AI slip, I knew what he meant

[Irrelephant11]

I mean sure
It's probably more revealing than a tw flip anyway
VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[Irrelephant11]

lol fun simultaneapost

mmm but if FL is town then it's prolly actually gem/tw
So maybe tw is still the better lynch?

hmmm Gamma who do you want to lynch? I forget

[Irrelephant11]

I mean sure
It's probably more revealing than a tw flip anyway
VOTE: Flavor Leaf

Don’t be scummy and follow RC’s terrible case. I just started to see you as town again

No you didn't? You specifically just told gemini that the only reason I wasn't at the bottom of your list was you were "trying a thing"
Also you think me following RC is scummy? What, we're the team now?

[Irrelephant11]

Gemini and Leaf were sticking out to me a bit yesterday. I don't know why, I just got tingles from them. As for the worst, I've seen something that's made me squint my eyes towards him. It's something that he keeps repeating and I'm sure that as the game goes on I'll be able to figure out if this is a scum tell.

@mutant did you ever figure this out

pedit: because if it's RC that'll be obvious tomorrow by seeing that he's survived two nights and mislynched twice
BoP basically

pedit2:
wow lots is happening

[Irrelephant11]

If there's a quickhammer that player will get speedlynched in lylo and lose
idc their alignment

[Irrelephant11]

but sure
UNVOTE:

pedit: I'm saying I'd give the game to scum if town quickhammered

[Irrelephant11]

If it's FL/RC I would be so sad

[Irrelephant11]

I mean from where I'm sitting you (@mutant) and the worst are always the best two lynches
If you want my vote somewhere other than you it'll be on the worst
why is the worst town, again? You ignored my question to you about him like three pages ago (found it in 1218)

[Irrelephant11]

I'm a newbie who belongs to either of you so WOW get over yourselves

it's FL/RC

idk if that's actually the scumteam but those are the only two names I'm currently interested in voting. FL, preferably.

[Irrelephant11]

I'm a newbie who belongs to

neither

of you so WOW get over yourselves

it's FL/RC

idk if that's actually the scumteam but those are the only two names I'm currently interested in voting. FL, preferably.

EBWOP

[Irrelephant11]

If there's a quickhammer that player will get speedlynched in lylo and lose
idc their alignment

I mean from where I'm sitting you (@mutant) and the worst are always the best two lynches
If you want my vote somewhere other than you it'll be on the worst
why is the worst town, again? You ignored my question to you about him like three pages ago (found it in 1218)

good post 11/10 would lynch this

Me saying I'd policy lynch anyone who quickhammers town the day before lylo is NAI and you know it
I'll stand by this post-game to prove

Yeah, I’m town reading Irrelephant for the pause he gives me. No point as scum for him to do that.

Oh look, one thing we can actually agree on, Irrelephant being town. Crazy it took them unvoting you upon request for you to come to this conclusion but whatever. Also, it's funny that you said:

I disagree if I push Irrelephant I’ll be lynched.

When for a good while there me+Irrelephant were designated scum partners in your eyes. So I'm saying that hasn't really stopped you from going down that road. And like I said before, it seems like you're spitballing all these wacky teams (Gamma/Mutant, IR/The Worst, & Me+

almost

everyone here) and seeing what sticks. That’s the type of vibe I get from you with most of your reads and like earlier, lack of real explanation.

You could be scum with TW, Gemeni, still figurin stuff out

None of anything you just said means absolutely anything

Disagree, she has basically the same scumread of you as I do. Address it or never get my vote where you want it

I am highly susceptible to pocketing. sigh

When Gemeni flips scum, you can get rid of that feeling.

If Gemeni flips town, just lynch me tomorrow.
She will flip scum, though

Gemini lynch {flips town} > Flavor lynch would actually be fine imo but idk if the playerlist would all agree to uphold it (especially since your partner would advocate for you)
Gemini lynch {flips scum} > Flavor gets to pick a lynch would also be fine
If

everyone

agrees to this plan I miiiight go with it

I know, I've brought that up, but enablers in general are much more likely to be town according to the wiki, and it's an annoyingly effective fakeclaim for such a small game if scum

postulation: what if it was an informed mafia?

This actually makes a lot of sense.

As an Informed Mafia who knows of a Watcher, Watcher Enabler mill makes it so you are the theoretically most likely kill to be made, so watch target would be on scum making the kill safe to make.

It gives off the vibe that whoever would end up claiming Watcher could still be pushed as a Mafia Watcher.

RC protecting Gemeni and going after me ensures that if they win this battle, that they open up every single ohher player as a mislynch option. They have to get rid of me because I’m town reading the right people, but making people paranoid at the same time.

RC and Gemeni are the scum team. :shrug:

It is what it is.

You haven't addressed the point I brought up about it being too strong a fakeclaim for a micro normal
Not to mention how it ALSO hurts town to actually kill a watcher enabler
Way too strong unless town has more power than I think we do