Mini 581 - Andy's Death - Over

[Ythill]

There really isn't even such thing as massclaim in this game, considering there is only one claim to be made really.

I am in full agreement with this statement, which leads to Seth's argument...

I don't think JDodge is the SK finder.

He's the most vocal proponent of massclaim, repeatedly saying that the SK finder should have no reason not to claim. If he's truly 100% behind that statement, then if he were the SK finder, he should say so.

To which JD rightly replied...

1) Why doesn't this logic apply to avin?

I say “rightly replied” because the logic does apply to avinas who said:

I agreed with him that the FBI agent has no need to false-claim.

Ergo, the FBI has no reason to avoid claiming at all. Avinas doesn’t just state this belief, he shows that he is 100% behind it by explaining why:

Because then we have one confirmed townie. The math is already shown in earlier posts. One confirmed townie means a lynch has a better chance of hitting scum, from a purely statistical standpoint. Factor in human deduction, and you're on better standing.

And further demonstrates this by explicitly stating that he is continuing to stand by the argument long after the math has been conceded by JD:

I'd like to say that I never abandoned my stance...I don't know where people got that from.

In summary, avinas is not the FBI. Were he the FBI, he would have claimed before L-1, which he’s been at twice in the last week. Since we know he’s not the FBI, there’s no claim he can make that will stay the hammer. Therefore there is no reason to await a claim.

Besides, there are other reasons for my actions that have nothing to do with Dave. Think about it.

I'm too dense. Spell it out for me.

The second reason has a little something to do with Dave. He’d voiced suspicion of avinas. I figured that, with a little pressure, that suspicion would become a vote and we could move this game (which was stagnating) along. I’m glad it worked, now I can only hope that I’m right about avinas being scum.

This level of blackmail and forcing of hands is not in any way a pro-town action.

This is a ridiculous accusation. Blackmail would be something like: I have proof that you are scum, JD, but I’ll keep it to myself if you take your vote off of me. I’ve done no such thing. I suppose you could stretch to say that's what I what I was doing with Dave, but I never gave him an ultimatum and my suspicions were stated up-front.

Nor have I forced anyone’s hand. In fact, I’ve done the opposite. I’ve given ample opportunity for anyone who

really

wants to avoid the lynch to unvote. Notice that, though two people on the wagon are saying they want the lynch delayed, neither of them unvoted. Three of the four people on the wagon have posted since my forewarning, which was all my last post was. And forewarning of the hammer is

extremely

pro-town.

Gob says I applied a time constraint but I’ve done no such thing. Any one of those three could have unvoted but they did not. I could have simply hammered in #244 but I did not. What I applied was

a time extension

before hanging the player who has been my explicit #1 suspect for most of the day.

unvote; vote: avinashv

Goodnight.

[Jenter Brolincani]

Dodge; Playing consistenly in a logical protown manner with a very similar playstyle, like Ythill looks town.

Playing like an antisocial a-hole to everyone in the game consistently does not make it a town tell for you, sorry.

I would guess either you and Avina are Scumbuddies, possibly with someone quiet (if I had to call, Dave I think on a hiar's breadth of difference) as the SK. OR you're the SK and you're simply trying to hide by talking loudly about thoery and trying not to get any scumhunting done.

[avinashv]

Oh dear. I'm here, sorry. Reading and responding.

[Ythill]

I would guess either you and Avina are Scumbuddies... OR you're the SK

Note the apparent surety of avin's alignment, stated before the card-flip. I certainly hope avinas is scum, but Jenter sounds like he knows it to be true.

[avinashv]

Wait, was that just me missing the "deadline" by Ythill?

Damn. I just got off exam week. Have a good game guys.

[avinashv]

Mod

: I'd like to apologize for not picking up the prod much earlier---I was on a self-imposed Internet ban for finals, and it was totally my bad for not informing you. I appreciate the extension to the deadline and whatnot, but it looks like I didn't get enough time from the people here.

[Jenter Brolincani]

I was commenting on Dodge's alignment not Avina's. If Dodge is scum I would guess (note the wrod guess which implies uncertianity) Avina is his buddy, if he's SK I'm less sure, but Avina is scummy in his own right anyhow.

[Dave]

Dodge; Playing consistenly in a logical protown manner with a very similar playstyle, like Ythill looks town.

Playing like an antisocial a-hole to everyone in the game consistently does not make it a town tell for you, sorry.

I would guess either you and Avina are Scumbuddies, possibly with someone quiet

(if I had to call, Dave I think on a hiar's breadth of difference) as the SK.

OR you're the SK and you're simply trying to hide by talking loudly about thoery and trying not to get any scumhunting done.

What makes you think I could be the serial killer?

[Ythill]

These latest posts from avin do not seem to suggest a favorable outcome. I suppose we'll know for sure soon enough.

[avinashv]

I actually stopped posting because I figured I was lynched, if I counted that right.

I'm town; you'll see shortly enough.

I'll say that Ythill is suspicious because he keeps trying to force the fact on others that he is playing pro-town; the only thing he did the latter half of today that was not scummy was to wait to give me time to respond, or to let people unvote.

Dave is highly suspicious--I think that has to do with misunderstanding, but he's been called out for a lot of things (I've been a part of this), and, in my opinion, they are right.

Oh, Ythill: I go to the University of Michigan. http://umich.edu is the website. Look up the academic calendar and you'll see that I'm not talking out of my ass.

[Andycyca]

I must remind you to read the rules?

Code: Select all

* Once the game enters Twilight, stop posting. 

avinashv

Vanilla Townie

has been lynched.

Now it's Night 1. Night choices are due Wednesday @ 1200 PM GMT-0600

[Andycyca]

Jenter Brolincani,

Vanilla Townie

was found dead from a shot in the head.

It's time to find everyone who's threatening the peace around here. Go and play to win!

With 6 alive, it's 4 to lynch

GOGOGOGOGO

[JDodge]

Vote: Ythill

This is lylo, but scum can't quicklynch. Think it through, but no need to overly hesitate as there's still a chance that the town can win even if we lynch town today. Lynching

any

scum (mafia or SK) gives us an extra day, but SK is preferable.

[goborage]

It's not quite as bad as lylo. Even if we screw up and hit town, the SK can simply choose not to NK and we'll move to Day 3. Or if his hunches are good he'll hit scum, which would be even better.

Anyhoo, I'm not quite sure who to vote for atm.

[JDodge]

It's not quite as bad as lylo. Even if we screw up and hit town, the SK can simply choose not to NK and we'll move to Day 3. Or if his hunches are good he'll hit scum, which would be even better.

Anyhoo, I'm not quite sure who to vote for atm.

Have you read anything that Ythill has said all game? If so, then why aren't you voting him already?

Don't be fooled by a large number of words - it all boils down to the same short answer anyways.

[Ythill]

@ JD: Right. Because your case is uber-compelling. The only reasonable point you made against me suggests that I'm mafia, but you're claiming I'm the SK. And now you're tunneling.

I'll look over the wagon during the next couple of days. There is no reason to rush things.

[goborage]

Neutral readings on camisade and seth - mostly because they don't post much.

Neutral leaning scum on everyone else.

Dave is someone who looks suspicious even without posting much. I hate his reasoning behind voting for avinashv and I don't like the fact that he didn't reply to this: "I think an FoS would suffice. Instead you put him in mortal danger."

I dislike two of Ythill's moves. I don't like the rush-lynch on avinashv and I don't like the Dave vote. You're saying that your vote on Dave was made to pressure Dave into voting? What a crazy plan.

I'm still hung up on JDodge's claim idea. Maybe JDodge earnestly thought his idea was good. Or maybe he's scum purposely putting forth a bad idea. If it goes through, he wins. If it fails, he can always fall back on "Would an SK really bring so much attention to himself?" and make himself look innocent. With JDodge's arguably anti-town behaviour, I can't help but get all WIFOMy. There's also the Jenter NK which could be read as beneficial to JD.

Anyways, I'm not going to vote until camisade and seth start posting.

@camisade and seth: What do you think of these three?

[camisade]

And forewarning of the hammer is

extremely

pro-town.

Thanks for this, can you tell me what other actions that you've made are pro-town?

Gob says I applied a time constraint but I’ve done no such thing. Any one of those three could have unvoted but they did not. I could have simply hammered in #244 but I did not. What I applied was

a time extension

before hanging the player who has been my explicit #1 suspect for most of the day.

I honestly would have unvoted, not that it means much now, and I never got a chance. -Would it really hurt to wait a little longer for avina? A "time extension" doesn't really do much when that person has no chance to check the thread and see it. You basically said "you have a few hours to post or you're dead" which IS blackmail. That really looks to me just as a way to justify your hammer.

major FOS: Ythill

I would vote now but I'm confused about whether it's lylo. I thought SKs weren't allowed to not night kill?

@camisade and seth: What do you think of these three?

Ythill: Already stated above.

Dave: Agree with you that lack of posting is suspicious and bothersome. SO SO incredibly ironic that he votes for avina because of the lack of posting by him. The whole saying he voted for avina when he never voted for avina thing confused me and I still don't understand it.

JDodge: Very aggressive and contentious, but I don't understand how Jenter can say:

Playing like an antisocial a-hole to everyone in the game consistently does not make it a town tell for you, sorry.

If JDodge acts like this when he's town why is it not a town tell for him? Just because you don't like it doesn't mean he isn't town. But I need to look back at other games by JDodge to see if this is true and get a better read on him.

[Sethaniel]

Re SK: The Role PM at the beginning of the thread says "You may PM me the name of a player." It doesn't appear to be the case that the SK must NK.

Right now, I'd have to say I'm rather suspicious of gob.

Even if we screw up and hit town, the SK can simply choose not to NK and we'll move to Day 3. Or if his hunches are good he'll hit scum, which would be even better.

It's interesting how he's positive the SK can choose to no kill. And how he says it'll be okay if we mislynch today.

Discussing NKs seems to always get bogged down in WIFOM. For example, the Jenter NK could be construed as pointing toward JD, since Jenter clearly didn't like him/ was convinced he was scum -- but, it could just as easily be a ploy by the SK to make it look as though JD must have been the SK since who else would want Jenter dead?

Gob says I applied a time constraint but I’ve done no such thing. Any one of those three could have unvoted but they did not. I could have simply hammered in #244 but I did not. What I applied was a time extension before hanging the player who has been my explicit #1 suspect for most of the day.

I honestly would have unvoted, not that it means much now, and I never got a chance. -Would it really hurt to wait a little longer for avina? A "time extension" doesn't really do much when that person has no chance to check the thread and see it. You basically said "you have a few hours to post or you're dead" which IS blackmail. That really looks to me just as a way to justify your hammer.

In every single game I've played in, any time a townie is lynched

someone

says "I would have unvoted, but you didn't give me enough time."

Everyone agrees that it's bad play to hammer without warning, but no one agrees on how much time is enough. At the time he was hammered, Avin hadn't posted in seven days - Sunday to Sunday. He says he was on self imposed internet ban for finals week, but he really should have let us know he was V/LA. Also, Avin was at L-1 for over 24 hours.

I dislike two of Ythill's moves. I don't like the rush-lynch on avinashv

Why is gob trying to put the blame on Ythill for avin's lynch? He posted after Avin was put on L-1 and Ythill had announced his intent to hammer. Gob could have unvoted, if he was concerned about the supposed speed of the lynch.

Sorry this is a little disjointed, I don't have much time today. For now, FoS goborage.

[goborage]

Re SK: The Role PM at the beginning of the thread says "You may PM me the name of a player." It doesn't appear to be the case that the SK must NK.

Right now, I'd have to say I'm rather suspicious of gob.

Even if we screw up and hit town, the SK can simply choose not to NK and we'll move to Day 3. Or if his hunches are good he'll hit scum, which would be even better.

It's interesting how he's positive the SK can choose to no kill. And how he says it'll be okay if we mislynch today.

Like you, I read the PM.

Gob says I applied a time constraint but I’ve done no such thing. Any one of those three could have unvoted but they did not. I could have simply hammered in #244 but I did not. What I applied was a time extension before hanging the player who has been my explicit #1 suspect for most of the day.

I honestly would have unvoted, not that it means much now, and I never got a chance. -Would it really hurt to wait a little longer for avina? A "time extension" doesn't really do much when that person has no chance to check the thread and see it. You basically said "you have a few hours to post or you're dead" which IS blackmail. That really looks to me just as a way to justify your hammer.

In every single game I've played in, any time a townie is lynched

someone

says "I would have unvoted, but you didn't give me enough time."

Everyone agrees that it's bad play to hammer without warning, but no one agrees on how much time is enough. At the time he was hammered, Avin hadn't posted in seven days - Sunday to Sunday. He says he was on self imposed internet ban for finals week, but he really should have let us know he was V/LA. Also, Avin was at L-1 for over 24 hours.

I dislike two of Ythill's moves. I don't like the rush-lynch on avinashv

Why is gob trying to put the blame on Ythill for avin's lynch? He posted after Avin was put on L-1 and Ythill had announced his intent to hammer. Gob could have unvoted, if he was concerned about the supposed speed of the lynch.

Sorry this is a little disjointed, I don't have much time today. For now, FoS goborage.

I don't have a problem with the lynch itself. I have a problem with the actions people took while lynching. As I've pointed out earlier it seems OOC for Ythill to rush-lynch.

So from what I gather you think I'm suspicious but not Dave, Ythill, or JD? Why not?

[camisade]

In every single game I've played in, any time a townie is lynched

someone

says "I would have unvoted, but you didn't give me enough time.

Thats why I said not that it means much now.

Fix'd :p

[JDodge]

Ugh. Will

everyone

not voting Ythill

right this instant

please explain why they are not doing so in one paragraph or less. Thank you.

[goborage]

Because there's no rush. Isn't the general consensus that more discussion = good? If it is then I could make the case that you're doing something anti-town.

[Ythill]

I dislike two of Ythill's moves. I don't like the rush-lynch on avinashv...

I can't believe you're accusing me of rushing the lynch. You had a chance to unvote and did not. You are as responsible for the speed of the lynch as I am. The game was stagnating. Now we have information.

...and I don't like the Dave vote. You're saying that your vote on Dave was made to pressure Dave into voting? What a crazy plan.

I said that was

one of

the reasons, and I listed the others. Are you misinterpreting me or misrepresenting me? Also, meta me to find my penchant for crazy plans. D1 of Mini 539 is a good example.

And forewarning of the hammer is

extremely

pro-town.

Thanks for this, can you tell me what other actions that you've made are pro-town?

I don’t like the insinuation. I made that statement in reference to JD who was trying to say my warning of the hammer was anti-town. I’m assuming the question is rhetorical.

You basically said "you have a few hours to post or you're dead" which IS blackmail. That really looks to me just as a way to justify your hammer.

The extension had nothing to do with avinas. It was posted for those who demanded that we wait for a claim, which was pointless (I already explained why). I did mention that avinas had a few hours to claim, but he would have claimed vanilla even if he was scum. Also, look up blackmail in the dictionary. What you are claiming I did was

extortion

but that's not even true because I never said a claim would stay my hand.

Discussing NKs seems to always get bogged down in WIFOM. For example, the Jenter NK could be construed as pointing toward JD, since Jenter clearly didn't like him/ was convinced he was scum...

I don't think JD is the SK, and I don't think he would have killed Jenter if he was. Whomever killed the SK probably wanted the option of setting up JD or myself for the lynch. But you're right, it's a WIFOM game that will reveal no definitive answer. Why did you bring it up?

Ugh. Will

everyone

not voting Ythill

right this instant

please explain why they are not doing so in one paragraph or less.

Because self-voting is scummy?

Sorry this is all defense. I’m working ridiculously long hours today and tomorrow but I’ll have time on Friday and Saturday to reread D1 and get some hunting done.

[Ythill]

LOL. EBWOP...

Whomever killed the SK...

Should say "Whomever killed Jenter...."