micro 816-II: pokemon go (open game) (gambe over)

[Shoshin]

oh, i feel like this'll be a hard playerlist to read.

Who's hard to read?

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Kokichi

[Shoshin]

opens the game by making a not specific game alignment indicative reason for selecting this game, which suggests that he's trying to conceal that there is one such reason for selecting this game.

Why'd you choose this game?

[Shoshin]

Hey Stun & Aronis, help us lynch Kokichi!

[Shoshin]

Stun's probably town.

[Shoshin]

Creature's probably town. And if he's not, that'll be pretty clear later.

[Shoshin]

Shoshin why did you ask me why I chose this game while asking no one else why they chose this game?

I asked you because you were basing a scumread on the idea that Kokichi was hiding why he chose the game, so it seemed like something you gave some thought to.

[Shoshin]

I don't townread Stun. I threw the read out to get some reactions because I felt the game was moving slower than I'd like.

[Shoshin]

I would lol if the scum team is Aronis and Stungun

what if it's profii/stungun

Both these thoughts crossed my mind.

[Shoshin]

What do you think of Kokichi's line about masons?

[Shoshin]

GiF's actually town btw - 52 is a massive town-tell

[Shoshin]

Because if you were scum you probably wouldn't have said I was "locktown" on Stun when I never said that.

[Shoshin]

I think you'd have been more careful as scum to make me like you.

[Shoshin]

If you were scum, you'd know I was town.

You joined me on Kokichi, so I'm looking to see if that's part of a scum agenda to make me like you or just a townie who felt the same as me. Then you start saying misinterpreting (intentionally or unintentionally) in a way that shows you're not buddying me, so I know you weren't voting Kokichi to buddy me. And that means you're not playing with a scum agenda and you're thinking similar things as me about the game.

So, you're town.

[Shoshin]

I'm just trying to find the scum.

How do you feel about Aronis? This guy isn't doing anything. I don't know how to read that and I'm thinking that's who NSG was talking about...

[Shoshin]

What feels off? If you're town, I'm correctly townreading you so I don't see what you're worried about...

I know you have no reason to believe this but I hate being scum. I actually told Irrelephant before signing up that if we got a scum PM (we didn't) he'd take it. And he prefers scum, so that's part of why our partnership worked.

Also, if I were scum, I'd never townread you at this point. With no investigations, I'd let paranoia fester.

I agree that NSG/Creature are less likely to take scum. I don't know how you're townreading Aronis, that's crazy. I agree on Nico as slight town.

I think we're looking at Stun/Profii/Aronis as scum, with an off chance that one of NSG/Creature is scum (if somehow they got 2 scum PMs, which would suck for them).

[Shoshin]

You'll figure it, I'm not woried. Unlike others, I'm not shy to townread players early. Just think about how quickly I townread Nancy in your game.

[Shoshin]

What about Kokichi do you think is more likely town?

[Shoshin]

Nancy didn't even post until later so the page isn't really important. I townread Nancy after she made like 3 posts is what I mean, like a locktown level read.

I liked Kokichi's response to the "are you town" question. "Unfortunately" isn't how I see scum responding, especially not if they had a chance to choose between town/scum. It's a townie thought, fakeable but still slightly town for it.

[Shoshin]

you taking a townread back is what feels off to me. i’ve never seen you do that shoshin

What's scummy about faking an early townread for reactions?

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Stun

[Shoshin]

I think the test was quite successful, since it helped read GiF.

As for the idea that I don't change reads, that's absurd. My reads change quite rapidly in some games.

[Shoshin]

Hey Aronis, any reads?

[Shoshin]

Profii is Stun's partner.

[Shoshin]

It's high level thinking, but that's how you have to read GiF.

[Shoshin]

seriously guys, what is scum about this? when shoshin even actively encouraged me to join the wagon. i would so do that if i were scum.

I'm pretty sure you interpreted that as a reaction test...

[Shoshin]

Why are you townreading Aronis?

[Shoshin]

Hey Stun, why aren't I locktown yet?

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Profii

[Shoshin]

the frustrating fact is that shoshin can sometimes look super scummy in her townplay.

Not true. Where'd you even get that idea?

[Shoshin]

If anything I was expecting her to be more assertive.

Based on what?

[Shoshin]

Look at how I played D1 in the other game. I actually got scumread at some point for being too passive...

[Shoshin]

Why are you so sure profii would be the partner? What's with the excessive focus on Aronis? Why should you have been locktown to Stun?

Stun busses. That's his meta. So voting profii when he's under pressure made a lot of sense.

My focus on Aronis isn't excessive? That's an odd interpretation. Very odd.

Stun should have read me as locktown for reasons I'll talk about later.

[Shoshin]

northsidegal- town for sure

Why?

[Shoshin]

Let me rephrase. Stun distances.

[Shoshin]

Why are you changing it up

To improve. How is this relevant to my alignment?

[Shoshin]

Okay, I think I get it.

[Shoshin]

GiF, for someone who thinks I'm scum you sure seem to jump on the same things as me quite a bit...

[Shoshin]

This game isn't Labyrinth. Different players, different environment, different evidence = different play.

[Shoshin]

They're not. It's bad that you think that.

[Shoshin]

Aronis is town.

[Shoshin]

Easy, profii.

[Shoshin]

Why wouldn't Profii take scum over FL?

[Shoshin]

That doesn't mean he'd choose scum, though?

[Shoshin]

That wouldn't be good. I need your help find the scum.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: NSG

[Shoshin]

Wait so you're saying that you have to be like other people and actually play the game and substantiate things to be townread?

That is just the worst I feel so bad for you

What are you talking about?

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Aronis

[Shoshin]

I decided to read some of your games. The more you joke around instead of scumhunting, the more I'm gonna want to lynch you.

[Shoshin]

Stungun seems to be struggling to scum hunt but trying in their own unconventional way

Aronis declaring themselves not scum hunting is a big alarm bell

My gut feeling is Shoshin is politically moving the vote around for buddying to try and split the pack as it were

GIF seems ok but I can’t read RC well so I’m not the authority on that

Whilst inactivity is annoying - if it is scum, I guess it indicates we are not putting scum under pressure thus, but I’ll hear NSG out

I also have Kokis PM explaination in my mind that he got the reject PM which could be a scum sign

So basically everyone could be scum and you don't have any thoughts about who it is?

[Shoshin]

Aronis, do you still suspect Profii?

[Shoshin]

I don't think profii/NSG is likely

Why?

[Shoshin]

That depends. When their partner's lurking, they tend to undermention.

[Shoshin]

I don't like that Profii's just spreading lots of paranoia about how anyone could be scum, plus the moment I threw out a townread on Stun, it felt like he was ready to tear it apart.

Then there's this bit about how he thinks I'm scummy because I'm townreading players, which makes me think Profii's scum trying to avoid townreading anyone because apparently townreading people is scummy in his mind (it's not, and it's totally unnatural for townies to think that way).

[Shoshin]

But I dunno, I'll have to look into his meta more because maybe that's just what he does as town.

[Shoshin]

Profii's early analysis from a recent scum game:

right probably spreading myself a bit thin across multiple games, apologies. Here we go though.

Archwing: please post more - side note, archwing answers the initial query over multiball, i think ill note this as i have an idea...

Beefster: vla

egg: I like the initial reads and picking up that TiaM reacted badly, i agree here. Following my multiball idea, it appears Inferno picks up the multiball idea, I want to find the root of this discussion...

Firebringer: i always find the short sentence style players hard to read. noting 273 for scum teams reference. Oh the cop claim - pushing Flavour, LUV or NSG. 2 members of the hood, why not Gamma or Inferno?

Flavour Leaf: I just simply dont trust this slot until it's PR'd in some way. I played a game with FL once and a couple of players just sheep'd his day 1 reads in twilight based on rep - no offence but I can't believe anyone can be such a mafia genius so I'll give you some time. Unless you are mechanically proved town, i wouldnt take this slot to lylo however.

Flubber: not done a great deal so far. Would have to look again if Gamma dropped dead right now but other than that... i await content (not a criticism, I know I'm not doing great on that front)

Gamma: I got bored of clicking the links but some of the ISO seemed ok with me. I would suggest maybe some kind of brief title, followed by link, followed by thoughts E.g My scum read on player X 1 look at the stuff in the post it's so obvious - etc etc- in this era of clickbait i want to know what I'm getting before i get there, the comments need to be more succinct before you earn a click from me. Sorry.

Inferno - right 142 this seems to be the start of the multiball theory. I know the mod has non-confirmed it. I wonder if this is a scum player who thinks their scum team is underpowered. I also think from my experience of him in a newbie game recently (1851 positivity on my wiki) says to me Inferno is switched on enough to not give the game away after that day vig gambit. Also - he was town in that game and got triggered at a lot of what I'd call fairly routine scum hunting, doesn't seem to be the case here, I'm thinking this slot rolled scum...
Also the random PR reveal concerns me. He knew in the newbie game to keep quiet with his PR and one of the above ISOs said no scum day chat in the rules, so this might have been for his scum mates

Less substance this his analysis here, but the overall direction of his thinking is similar - lots of nothingness, non-committal about most things, and mostly speculation about who the scum are, very little attempt to townhunt.

And here's his early analysis as town:

Ruby town
SIV scum

I think this is the worsts town game

And Kokis

So I am thinking Una or Siv will be the scum

Una made some weird posts for Una to be fair but I don’t like SIV either

Usually I can town hunt pretty easily but there is a lack of players towning it up in this game

In other words, he townhunts as town but not as scum. And then there's this:

I’m pretty sure I’ve been criticised in my earliest games for being seen to town hunt more than scum hunt so I find it weird that someone would expect to find a history of me doing it - I kinda assumed site meta is scum hunt or die

In other words, Profii probably thinks that an easy way to push a mislynch when scum is to attack someone for townhunting, and he thinks a way to survive as scum is to focus on scumhunting over townhunting.

What's Profii doing here? He's attacking me because I threw out some townreads. Meanwhile, he's exclusively looking for scum while making no real attempt to find any of the town.

Thoughts?

[Shoshin]

It’s easy for scum to just throw out whatever narrative they want to try and get people to believe but you’ve gone meta diving to go and find the “right” narrative irrespective of what you find

I don't understand this. Can you clarify?

[Shoshin]

Digging Profiis recent content

What'd you like?

[Shoshin]

You don't know which posts you liked, GiF?

[Shoshin]

Scum have to fake stuff to make Town lynch town so they have to invent things - whilst that gives them the freedom to do anything they can get away with

You went looking for evidence of things you thought were true which seemed towny

This doesn't make sense to me.

Scum look for evidence to support a case on town. Town look for evidence that indicates town or scum. You seem to be saying that I'm doing the former yet townreading me for it. I don't understand your logic at all.

[Shoshin]

Alright, GiF's back to null.

[Shoshin]

So, like, he thinks I'm town because of effort? Still bad.

[Shoshin]

Bad as in bad. I'm still figuring whether it means he's scum.

[Shoshin]

And nah, the scummy thing is that somehow I'm not town anymore based on my posts of profii when you don't even have any clue what you think about profii. That change felt fake to me.

[Shoshin]

I've read other games with NSG so I wasn't looking at her meta.

I also don't use meta in the way you're imagining, profii. I use it to check specific things that worry me, in your case the combination of questioning townreads (e.g. you didn't like my townreads on Stun or GiF) at the same time that you were speculating about how players could be scum but not town. I saw a lack of interset in who the town were and that worried me.

[Shoshin]

When you said that thing about weird reasoning being required to sort NR that indicates that you are on at least some level aware of my past scum aptitude yet the reasons that you're townread me and retracted that townread have been incredibly insulting. I don't want to call you out for it because I could use a few easy townreads to make me stop hating mafia but you're either scum or woefully unprepared to sort me if I actually were scum and tryhards g.

Weird reasoning to sort NR?

I'm not insulting your scum aptitude, if anything the opposite. I see you playing towny as fuck until the point where your paranoia about me starts to feel fake, so then I start thinking maybe all that town stuff is just really strong scum play and maybe I jumped the gun on townreading you. It doesn't help that my friend (Irrelephant) says you're basically unreadable because you're god scum.

[Shoshin]

It's also weird that you don't like the reasons I gave for townreading you... like, most players wouldn't ever townread a player for the reasons I gave, so it's something you'd typically think to fake as scum unless you somehow knew that's the type of reasoning I use, and while you've seen my play in one game, I don't think it gave any indication that I'd be using that type of reasoning here.

[Shoshin]

I disagree, GiF. Like, I don't care how good you are as scum, I still think you're going to unconsciously drop tells as town that you wouldn't drop as scum until you become aware of the tells, and I think that's what 52 was. I don't think you'd fake that error as scum because you haven't played with me enough to know I'd townread you for it, so I don't think the error was intentional and that means it's a great source of information about your alignment.

[Shoshin]

Stun's town.

[Shoshin]

i want to know why people are townreading kokichi. from what i've read so far i think he's probably my strongest scumread (relatively speaking) - his play kind of reminds me of mini normal 2005.

Can you elaborate on this?

[Shoshin]

Would Kokichi not play that way as town, NSG?

[Shoshin]

Hmm, NSG could be scum.

[Shoshin]

But didn't realize this was a separate game. I thought me and gamma would basically be like masons or something lol.

Let's assume you both got town PMs. What'd you imagine happened to the folks who got a scum PM and a town PM? How could they be in the same game?

[Shoshin]

Hmm, NSG could be scum.

what makes you say that?

Nothing that townish about your posting. Saying that Profii is town for something you do as scum doesn't make much sense. Saying I'm overconfident to stoke GiF's paranoia isn't helpful, especially when you're wrong that overconfidence was a problem in that game.

[Shoshin]

It's actually a weird interpretation of that game since I kept saying I had no clue who the scum were... and town kept changing their minds about things... and then they lost mostly because of lurking, faulty results, and a really bad play from our jailkeeper... like, how you get "overconfidence" from any of that is hard to really understand... so yeah it looks like you're misremembering the game and stoking GiF's paranoia...

[Shoshin]

Mumble (the jailkeeper) was overconfident in a way that lost us the game, but that's a differnet player, so I don't know how you group him with me.

[Shoshin]

i didn't say profii was town at all, especially not because of something that i once did as scum... i wondered and put it out there if it was wrong to townread him for having those theories and as a counterargument to my own thinking reflected on how i got townread for the same thing in one of my own scum games.

So your logic is:

"I can't read Profii but for the moment he feels town for doing something I did as scum."

Wtf? Just a very strange way to talk about someone who is coming under a lot of pressure at the moment.

[Shoshin]

you're still misinterpreting what i'm saying. never once have i said that he feels town

FOR

doing something that i once did as scum. i said on a gut level i want to townread him for that theory thing,

BUT

i was once townread as scum for doing that.

What's the difference between saying someone "feels town" and saying "my gut wants to townread him"?

[Shoshin]

even if my interpretation of that game is wrong, why do you instantly go to me stroking paranoia instead of me simply misremembering? i'm still not sure where the assumption of malice comes in.

I said you "could" be scum, not that you are. The point is that I'm not townreading your play because it's consistent with what I think you'd do as scum.

[Shoshin]

that's not the difference that i'm trying to highlight.

Yeah, I get it. You're saying you want to townread him for doing something. I'm wondering why you'd want to townread him for doing that thing when you know scum do it.

[Shoshin]

i'm townreading him for something that i think might be a towntell, it's just that i'm not sure of the reliability of that towntell.

Why would it be a towntell if you know scum do it? Like, that's what I don't get.

[Shoshin]

there's no such thing as a 100% towntell. every towntell that you can think of has been done by scum before - it's just a matter of probabilistic reasoning (if mathdino were here, he'd probably say bayesian reasoning).

That's fine. Why is it a towntell?

[Shoshin]

Profii, why is NSG town?

[Shoshin]

Would Kokichi not play that way as town, NSG?

i would think that kokichi as town would at least be voting someone already or trying to sort people.

Why do you think this?

[Shoshin]

You weren't clear if it was just an assumption or based on actual experience. What's he usually like as town?

[Shoshin]

I'm also curious why GiF still townreads Koki since I'm pretty sure GiF has experience there too. And if Koki's town/scum meta is that easy to distinguish, why would Koki express preference for scum?

[Shoshin]

I don't know her meta but I can believe it based on what I'm seeing - can you elaborate the meta reasons?

[Shoshin]

GiF, is NSG town or scum?

[Shoshin]

I agree with most these points. Can you talk to me more about her meta? She's confident as town? And less wordy? Seems like that'd be a lot easier to fake as scum than what she's giving us here.

[Shoshin]

I'm not pocketing you... like, if anything you're pocketing me by continuing to bring up the same things I've brought up... more than a couple times now...

[Shoshin]

I don't even know what pocket means then.

[Shoshin]

Well, I just came off a game where every player in the game spent multiple DPs telling me I was scum, so suspicion doesn't really faze me at this point. Plus there's been other games where my strongest townread was death tunneling me... so I dunno, I'm not about to scumread someone just because they suspect me. I get why you'd be paranoid about me since I'm townreading you for reasons you wouldn't have expected, so whatever. I also think that your paranoia is irrational and you'd see that if you realized you've been thinking about this game in a very similar way to me.

[Shoshin]

I know you're not scumreading me, you're irrationally paranoid. It's what I said.

[Shoshin]

Anyway, back to NSG. Who's her partner?

[Shoshin]

Why's NSG town?

[Shoshin]

Meh, okay. I'll trust that for now.

Why is Profii town?

[Shoshin]

Um? We got both? And I said it didn't matter which game so he chose

Didn't you say you thought you were in the same game?

[Shoshin]

Like that whole one of 3 people are scum lynchpool doesn't really feel likely to come from scum

That's townish, yeah.

[Shoshin]

I mostly agree with NSG's reads.

[Shoshin]

lol @ Stun

[Shoshin]

I was kinda joking about agreeing with NSG, Stun. Like, my reads agreed with hers about as much as hers agreed with GiF.

[Shoshin]

I was kinda joking about agreeing with NSG, Stun. Like, my reads agreed with hers about as much as hers agreed with GiF.

what do you disagree with?

I disagree on Kokichi, Profii, and Creature. I'd also list Stun as townier than either you or GiF.

Kokichi said a couple really townish things earlier in the game but his mason thing bothers the shit out of me, so I'm sort of null there, waiting on his answers to my questions plus more content. I think once I settle my read here I'll have a strong idea about who the scum are.

Creature isn't as town as you seem to think. I agree that he's likely to pick town but there's a chance they got two scum PMs, so it's not that telling by itself.

If I had to guess, I'd pick Aronis/Profii as scum right now. The amount of suspicion that Aronis has shown towards Profii is really unnatural, in a way that makes me think he's distancing, and both have been playing independently scummy. GiF's right that Profii's dropped some hints of town but I don't think they really outweigh how closely his play resembles his play as scum and how different it looks from his play as town, especially in terms of how non-commital he's been and how he's focusing much more on what's scummy rather than what's towny.

[Shoshin]

Aronis, do you still suspect Profii?

yes but I think NSG is a higher priority target rn

I'll also add that Aronis suspecting Profii in the way he did while making posts like this is why I think Aronis/Profii is a very plausible team.

[Shoshin]

I don't really townread Aronis, but I thought the 'stop being anti town and vote NSG' posts were kinda towny

Did you see the way he reacted to my meta dive on Profii? So unnatural.

[Shoshin]

Like, I bring up Profii's meta for discussion and he responds:

okay i'm pretty sure shoshin is conftown at this point and one of the best players on this site

i might just sheep shoshin for the rest of the game tbh

wow you can tell profii just got caught
gotta go back and modify that readslist real quick before anyone else realizes she/he is scum

you got called out for being vague- something you do as scum, so you just made the most direct and to the point readslist possible and then your conclusion is oh, let's put someone else at L2 to try to get as much attention off of me as possible

This, but doesn't vote Profii. He's pushing the NSG/Profii team and going for NSG...

Just feels very unnatural and informed regarding Profii's alignment, and scum driven by voting NSG.

[Shoshin]

Aronis is also the obvious partner for creature so maybe I'd go for it

How?

[Shoshin]

Aronis is still scummy. Like, I just don't see town reacting to the meta stuff in that way. How would he even know if I'm right about Profii to call me conftown or good at the game? It's either informed or fake.

[Shoshin]

Hey you've done Aronis meta right? Does he have this overconfident attitude regarding his pushes when he's scum pushing on people?

I skimmed a couple games to check if he's always joking around like this, but dunno about overconfidence, not something I was looking for. I got the feeling that he scumhunts more as town and jokes around more as scum, but eventually posts reads as both alignments and doesn't hedge them.

[Shoshin]

I mean it's not typically something you see coming out of scum playstyle wise but if this aligns with how he plays as scum then yeah I'd buy it

I think creature is scum though and I don't understand why I'm unique in that viewpoint.

I haven't played with town Creature so I actually don't know, you could be right. He seemed disengaged as scum to the point where I can't ever imagine him picking a scum PM, plus he seems more engaged here than he was in Labyrinth. Why are you scumreading?

[Shoshin]

Can you save me a few steps and link me his last few scum games?

I'd have to find them again, so maybe later when I feel more energy to look at them again myself.

[Shoshin]

I skimmed Transformers, seems like that game was unique in that it has multiple scum teams so Creature could actually scumhunt if he wanted ... so not a great point of comparison imo

[Shoshin]

Which posts?

[Shoshin]

lol if it's NSG and I again.

like why even make this post if you're town

lol why make it as scum? It's just a weird post.

[Shoshin]

I get what you're saying.

His vibe is similar to the vibe in Laybrinth if I'm being honest. I just also can't picture him ever picking scum.

[Shoshin]

I need to take another look at Aronis/Profii. I'll come back to Creature after that.

[Shoshin]

I don't think it's possible to play the same as both alignments.

[Shoshin]

Aronis as scum: viewtopic.php?t=71319&f=53&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

You flaked lol...

[Shoshin]

Look at how he interacts with Lexa, his scum partner. There's a lot of distancing there, similar to the way he's treating Profii. And then Lexa's slot goes on to win the game after Aronis is lynched...

[Shoshin]

At some point he says: "My other scumreads are Lexa (confidence: 110%)." So if you're wondering about overconfidence, there you go.

[Shoshin]

I mean, I dunno. I could be wrong about Aronis, or wrong about Profii. I'm not as confident about this as I'd like to be, but at the moment that's where I'm leaning. Gonna take a look at Creature now.

[Shoshin]

I dunno, GiF. I feel like Stun's town.

[Shoshin]

Creature's plausible at this point.

[Shoshin]

stungun0404 (3): profii, GirlInFreezer, Shoshin

Yah, get off

creature's likely to be town this game. he got me mislynched in lynchpin mafia on d1, where him and nsg were scum, so him discouraging a repeat of that with this comment reads like it's likely to be coming from town creature. basically, the only thing that limits my thinking here is that he stated it after the wagon has already died down, so i don't know --> could be genuine, but could also see it being a wise placement of pocketing (but i find this so much less likely; it depends on whether creature!scum pockets players which i don't really think he does). so i feel safe to assume creature is town for now. occam's razor takes effect!

Like, this is a pretty good post from Stun. I don't see him making it as scum regardless of Creature's alignment.

[Shoshin]

Yeah, so GiF & Stun are my strongest townreads. I'm not lynching either today.

[Shoshin]

to me, rc’s play here aligns perfectly with scum. pressure wagons, and get as many claims as you can to find that jailkeeper. this seems to be his overall game strategy right now. just throwing out everything and seeing whatever sticks

Not sure what the fuck this is about, though.

[Shoshin]

What does being "first" have to do with anything?

[Shoshin]

So why is GiF scum?

[Shoshin]

his play doesn’t seem like town rc at all. i’m not familiar with scum rc, but my friemd is, and she thinks this is scum rc. have you played with town rc? or scum rc? it at least seems a far cry from what i remember in his townplay.

What's different from his town play? Be specific. And explain why those things make RC scum.

No offense to Gemini but I doubt she knows how to read RC, so that's not remotely compelling.

[Shoshin]

Hey GiF, you still sure Profii is town? Because 578 is pretty scummy.

[Shoshin]

I dunno, Stun's sudden certainty that RC is scum doesn't make a lot of sense to me. And Profii jumping on that wagon because of speculation about an Aronis/GiF team makes even less sense.

[Shoshin]

Why are you pushing GiF over Aronis?

[Shoshin]

Wtf GiF...

[Shoshin]

I was enjoying playing with GiF

I don't see why you're getting this upset about scum voting you... like, isn't that to be expected?

[Shoshin]

Fuck, I hate this. I wish GiF hadn't voted himself.

[Shoshin]

Creature, what's your reads?

[Shoshin]

Creature, what's your reads?

stungun town
Then I'm sheeping him on you
Am fine letting GIF go for now
Feeling Kokichi is town too
profii idk how to read

I'm rn looking at Aronis, nsg and NicoRobin

Let me just say that this looks like creature town to me. I don't really see him engage in in-depth reads in his scum games, so the detailedness of this list looks good at first sight.

In-depth reads? Where?

[Shoshin]

He took two stances... You, and Kokichi. It's about what I'd expect him to do as scum. I don't see how you're townreading him for that.

[Shoshin]

UNVOTE:

I'm a bit zoned out of this game. Need to consult with my friend before we decide who to lynch.

[Shoshin]

You're 78% sure Aronis is town? How'd you even come to that number?

[Shoshin]

I have him as town, so not at this point in time.

Why is Profii town to you?

[Shoshin]

Stun, what're your thoughts on Profii?

[Shoshin]

Stun's very likely town.

[Shoshin]

NSG never posted much...

[Shoshin]

GiF, how do you feel about lynching Nico?

[Shoshin]

I could settle on profii but I just don't like the idea of lynching a really active player when there's scummy lurkers around (Aronis & Nico).

[Shoshin]

I think Nico's townread on Profii feels fake.

[Shoshin]

And the way Aronis reacted to my push on Profii just doesn't make any sense from town.

[Shoshin]

I'm also paranoid about you, GiF, because I didn't like the self-vote. I've been told you do this as town but I still didn't like it because I thought you were having fun this game and I just thought you wouldn't be pulling those shenanigans this game. It just surprised me and part of me worries that you're just trying to emulate your meta as opposed to genuinely being upset. But maybe you're just a very sensitive player that even when your scumreads vote you, you self-vote? I dunno, just feels like you wouldn't let your scumreads get to you like that. Is that actually what you do in your games as town when your scumreads vote you?

[Shoshin]

VOTE: profii

[Shoshin]

@GiF

I know how you feel because I felt similarly in Labyrinth. I wanted to quit the game and just say fuck it, but I also had in the back of my mind that that's exactly what scum wanted and so I had to do my best to just stick with it. And eventually it all worked out, I wasn't mislynched, and town won. Maybe try the same?

[Shoshin]

But GiF, why can't Aronis be the lynch from your perspective?

[Shoshin]

It's probably still Aronis/Profii, with a chance of Nico or maybe Kokichi if either flips town.

[Shoshin]

GiF, we're not lynching Stun today, same as we're not lynching you. Can you just trust me on that read and read the game under the assumption he's town? I value your perspective and would like to know how you'd come out reading things under taht assumption.

[Shoshin]

I'm assuimng Profii is still scum, but who is the partner if not Aronis?

[Shoshin]

Meh, okay. Let's just lynch profii.

[Shoshin]

Stun, are you going to vote Profii with us?

[Shoshin]

No.

[Shoshin]

UNVOTE:

I'm gonna read some things before lynching anyone.

[Shoshin]

@Creature

Why are you sheeping someone else on me instead of reading me as town yet following all my reads/votes?

[Shoshin]

Why is this game a pain for you?

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Profii

[Shoshin]

Lynch Profii over Creature by a lot.

[Shoshin]

Hey Maria, what're your reads?

[Shoshin]

Like, independent of RC's reads.

[Shoshin]

If you were scum, you'd know I was town.

You joined me on Kokichi, so I'm looking to see if that's part of a scum agenda to make me like you or just a townie who felt the same as me. Then you start saying misinterpreting (intentionally or unintentionally) in a way that shows you're not buddying me, so I know you weren't voting Kokichi to buddy me. And that means you're not playing with a scum agenda and you're thinking similar things as me about the game.

So, you're town.

this is a poor argument, and i have to poke holes in it now that i have absorbed it. scum encourage bandwagons in rvs very frequently, esp. in a game this small where a mislynch can happen lickety-split with only five votes needed.

scum will also question anything to get information which they can then attack and use against you. this “locktown” misrepresentation could have been intentionally placed as a way to get you to react, as it is clearly overexaggeration. probably town clearly does not equal locktown.

third, scum will bring in arguments that reflect town, and just simply rephrase or rehash arguments that others have made without adding anything new in an attempt to look like they are helping even if they are not.

I don't like this at all. Weren't you the one who said to focus on probability over possibility? Why aren't you doing that here?

[Shoshin]

Aronis, claim.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Aronis

I don't think it's acceptable for players at L-1 not to claim. I was in a position to hammer so I think he should have claimed.

[Shoshin]

Aronis needs to claim.

[Shoshin]

Irrelephant wants this:

VOTE: Profii

[Shoshin]

Meh, I'll get into this eventually.

[Shoshin]

Why isn't profii lynched yet?

[Shoshin]

Stun, why are you on Nico?

[Shoshin]

Scummy behaviors.

[Shoshin]

That's literally the point I was making about Profii.. and you unvoted when asked...

[Shoshin]

Actually nvm, I can't keep things straight. I'm not reading this very carefully atm

[Shoshin]

@shoshin i actually need to know why you were so adamant about aronis claiming last day phase? so much so that you were entirely distracted from the profii lynch.

I don't think it's okay for players to troll around like Aronis, be put at L-1 where it's obvious they're going to get lynched if they don't claim, and then refuse to claim. I find that sort of behavior anti-town and I think it's anti-town to let it continue.

[Shoshin]

Your view of my play is too simplistic, Stun. You're missing the forest for the trees.

[Shoshin]

Creature's probably town.

[Shoshin]

Hmm, that's interesting.

[Shoshin]

Well, I just looked at the game and saw that post, haven't read most of the others.

[Shoshin]

It's okay that you suspect me for now. I'll be obvious town eventually, once I get into the game. Tomorrow, probably.

[Shoshin]

I find it odd that NSG of all people would suspect me for inactivity when that's basically her thing too... Also my early play should clear me either way, lots of stuff there that I can't fake as scum.

[Shoshin]

why will you be obvtown? are there any obvious differences between your town and scum game that i should be aware about?

There's a remarkable difference between the two. You're welcome to review for yourself.

[Shoshin]

Well, I resent your assessment of my play in Tropical, so whatever. You've been very inactive in my games, including this one.

[Shoshin]

i don't understand why my small comment that people were overconfident in their reads has affected you this much. i'm sorry? i didn't think it would be much of a point of contention once people saw who the actual scumteam was. i never even said anything about your play specifically, nor anything

other than

or

worse than

"people were overconfident in reads that were wrong". i still don't understand how that can be much of a point of contention considering how that game actually ended.

I don't understand why my comment that you tend to be inactive affected you so much? I'm sorry? I didn't think it would be much of a point of contention since your post count in my games is usually towards the very bottom of players.

As for Tropical, it's a huge point of contention since you're just wrong about what happened in that game. I was literally voting scum when I was mislynched, so the idea that I was "overconfident" doesn't make any sense... all my townreads were correct (i.e. all of the remaining town members, except Mumble), and I had the scum narrowed down by poe such that town would have won if I hadn't been stupidly mislynched (and btw, I was only mislynched because of a single player's stupidity, not the collective stupidity of town).We're talking about a single overconfident player - Mumble - who fucked things up. Your assessment of the game felt very superficial and dishonest, in a way that makes me think you were trying to discredit me before this game even got going. Or you're being honest and that makes me resent you because it's insulting. A lot more insulting than saying you're inactive, since you're actually insulting my play whereas I'm just saying you're inactive, same as me.

[Shoshin]

to say that i suspect you for inactivity is inaccurate.

Why do you suspect me? What have I done that's suspicious?

[Shoshin]

this is a really scummy pop-in after being prodded that when i look at it really reminds me of scum feeling like "i really don't want to put in the effort to fake something towny so let me just make a few posts in a row"

Explain how this suspicion isn't based on my inactivity.

[Shoshin]

I'm hoping scum won't kill me in the mistaken belief that I'll be mislynchable. I won't be, but hopefully the scum don't know that. And then I'll get into the game in a beautiful way tomorrow.

[Shoshin]

NSG, why do you townread Profii?

[Shoshin]

As for those suspecting me - yes, I've done nothing since the early part of D1. That isn't AI for me, I just got disengaged from the game for a bit and now I'm getting back into it. All of this is consistent with my meta.

NSG saying that I'm scummy because of content is bullshit. My content is fine. She suspects me because I'm not around, period. Saying otherwise is bullshit. And so is her read on Profii. I don't see how she's townreading that.

[Shoshin]

Also unfortunately I haven't been in a mafia playing mood lately and I was VLA which maria can attest to. I think creatures flip on me is very shady. As soon as there was shade toward me he voted me. Its especially weird when you take into consideration that he thinks that NSG is scum and has been pushing that all day today from the beginning. If you remember NSG has been saying I've been scum since day 1. So why in the world would he be flipping his votes from me to her as so.

Quick turns are usually town. Sometimes scum, but usually town.

[Shoshin]

I'm saying you're scum, NSG.

[Shoshin]

Why do you townread Profii?

[Shoshin]

I'm fine doing any of Maria, Kokichi or Nico.

Why not Profii?

[Shoshin]

My wiki is pretty outdated I cringe.

Meh, Creature probably doesn't say this as scum. He's town.

[Shoshin]

Stun's turn off Profii is terrible. What the fuck was that, Stun?

[Shoshin]

-shrug-

i think he's lynchbait.

What the fuck is this? How is he lynchbait?

The fact that a couple of strong players want to lynch him (e.g. RC, Maria) doesn't make him lynchbait.

How do you have a solid poe when you don't even have a clear townread on Profii?

[Shoshin]

you cannot logically genuinely hold both the position that I scumread you for activity and that i'm scum

it doesn't make sense. it's contradictory

No contradiction... The position is that you know I'm town and the scumread is fake. Or "bullshit," as I said before. Town shouldn't scumread me in this situation. Some light paranoia based on activity? That's fine. A full out scumread based content when the content is fine, no. That's a fake read.

[Shoshin]

MariaR is likely scum but likely no one will do anything about it, so 1/2 chance of lynching town

Why is Maria scum? Her posts seem towny as fuck to me. The conversations with RC don't feel faked at all, and RC wouldn't be weighing in to that extent on this game if he were scum. Not to mention that RC was towny as fuck throughout his posting in the early points of this game, and everything Maria's doing is pretty much how she plays?

[Shoshin]

NSG's belief that I contradicted myself is weird, too.

Like, there's a very clear progression here. I thought she was town who had some paranoia of me based on inactivity. I wouldn't have cared about that and even said it was okay for her to suspect me a bit at that point in the game. But then I learn that she suspects me based on content, not inactivity. At which point I realize something is off about her. I skim some of her other posts and realize she's defending Profii for bullshit reasons that she can't even come up with. I realize her reads are fake. And so I start suspecting her. And then she says I'm contradicting myself because I happen to have a progression to my reads? That's scummy in itself. Like, she's not looking at the obvious town tells in front of her because she's pushing a lazy theory of me and Kokichi as scum without actually doing any real scumhunting or townhunting.

I'd lynch NSG today. Profii/NSG makes the most sense to me at this point.