Micro 813 - Game Over

[Korina]

I'm obviously not here, ignore this post.

Clearly doesn't mean I'm here

:^)

[Korina]

VOTE: MafMen

This is obviously scum guys, their name even says they’re mafia!

[Korina]

I don't like Manatee. At all.

His first RVS vote seemed off to me, then Post 21 came and just really really felt off.

Manatee, please explain why I shouldn't vote you?

(I'm not voting him till I get a VC in case of accidental lolhammer)

[Korina]

My vote would take them down to L-1.
Are we all sure that Manatee is scum here?

[Korina]

I don't like Manatee. At all.

His first RVS vote seemed off to me, then Post 21 came and just really really felt off.

Manatee, please explain why I shouldn't vote you?

(I'm not voting him till I get a VC in case of accidental lolhammer)

this doesn't feel like good faith engagement. what "explanation" would manatee reasonably have rn? it'll be a pithy "nuh-uh" (which is exactly what he gave) or flailing

not to mention there's clearly 2 votes ON THIS PAGE in a 2 page game so the "accidental lolhammer" concern feels disingenuous

this+korina's next post feels like piling onto a popular scumread and trying to look reasonable without actually getting hands dirty and voting him

Anti, please read this game and tell me if my concern about accidentally hammering is valid.

If you don't want to, I'l save you the effort: I was in a hydra with a friend, we were a one-shot vigi. I accidentally hammered the vengeful townie thinking they were at L-1, town lost about 3 pages later.

Does my concern sound reasonable now?

[Korina]

ok so
people say that wagons forming to easily can be indicative of lynchbait i think this is the case
i prefer a Korina wagon right now VOTE: Korina

Why?

Korina what is this question:

Are we all sure that Manatee is scum here?

it's page 2, how on earth could we possibly be sure? Did you think anyone was acting like they were particularly sure that he was scum? Like not very far above this post I even explicitly clarified I wasn't full on scumreading Manatee but rather I felt a gut ping from his intro

The question is what I asked: Are we sure he is scum / are we willing to actually lynch him? If we aren't, why bring him down to L-1 in the first place if we're just gonna shift to someone else?

Also, I currently like Blackstar. Will need to do some more reading later.

[Korina]

Ok, let me log on to my laptop, but, Invis, I

never

voted Manatee.

VOTE: Invisibilty

Horrible reason to vote someone in general.
I think you’re scum as well as Mantaee.

[Korina]

OATH I'M A GUY

Same applies to me as well Oath.

blackstar sort of feels like he's trying to keep his head down and not make too much of a splash BUT give a different reason for voting manatee than everyone else to avoid setting off alarm bells for being too sheepy.

not impressed w korina's recent strawman

What strawman? And also, my TR on Blackstar is based on this game I ran. His tone feels similar to this game

yeah... I'm not getting this whole scum vibe thing from ManateeDude. If Manatee is scummy for the call on the wagon and then jumping ship to me, I would say that Invisibility warrants the same amount of pressure. What really worries me about this is that it seems to have gone overlooked. Invisibility initially voted BlackStar and then placed a vote on me by saying "for cheese!". What I find weird about this is that the vote came AFTER Manatee switched to me for joining the wagon. Invisibility saw my vote- posted a response(that did not contain a vote against me) and then 11 minutes later (4 minutes after Manatee) switched their vote to me. It seemed more opportunistic (played off jokingly) than anything and the fact that no one else seems to be pushing it makes me feel uneasy. Then when Manatee starts coming under pressure she switched to him under "I can see the scum reads", but nothing substantial.

Korina's initial rvs still parked on Mafman who's sitting at L-2, given her reaction to putting Manatee at L-1 I can't fathom a world where she's not aware of where her vote is so I am assuming (and correct me if I'm wrong, Korina...) your RVS is now an actual vote?

VOTE: Korina

No, my vote was still on Maf because I didn't have anyone else I was really suspecting, plus, I didn't see the need to change my vote. Why bother changing it if it'd be to unvote and nothing else?

[Korina]

OATH I'M A GUY

Same applies to me as well Oath.

blackstar sort of feels like he's trying to keep his head down and not make too much of a splash BUT give a different reason for voting manatee than everyone else to avoid setting off alarm bells for being too sheepy.

not impressed w korina's recent strawman

What strawman? And also, my TR on Blackstar is based on this game I ran. His tone feels similar to this game

yeah... I'm not getting this whole scum vibe thing from ManateeDude. If Manatee is scummy for the call on the wagon and then jumping ship to me, I would say that Invisibility warrants the same amount of pressure. What really worries me about this is that it seems to have gone overlooked. Invisibility initially voted BlackStar and then placed a vote on me by saying "for cheese!". What I find weird about this is that the vote came AFTER Manatee switched to me for joining the wagon. Invisibility saw my vote- posted a response(that did not contain a vote against me) and then 11 minutes later (4 minutes after Manatee) switched their vote to me. It seemed more opportunistic (played off jokingly) than anything and the fact that no one else seems to be pushing it makes me feel uneasy. Then when Manatee starts coming under pressure she switched to him under "I can see the scum reads", but nothing substantial.

Korina's initial rvs still parked on Mafman who's sitting at L-2, given her reaction to putting Manatee at L-1 I can't fathom a world where she's not aware of where her vote is so I am assuming (and correct me if I'm wrong, Korina...) your RVS is now an actual vote?

VOTE: Korina

No, my vote was still on Maf because I didn't have anyone else I was really suspecting, plus, I didn't see the need to change my vote. Why bother changing it if it'd be to unvote and nothing else?

Fixed.

Don't know why tags broke there

[Korina]

I'm VT.

Putting me at L-2 is effectively L-1 because I will self-hammer regardless of alignment btw.

Anyways, I'll reply to posts in a minute.

[Korina]

VOTE: Mafmen
We're on page 6 now, if that's helping you form reads yet.

I probably won't actually be able to sort Invisibility today. I feel the same way Oka does. Korina can you elaborate? Because I'm not seeing it. You looked a little lynch-happy very early (regardless of who you were actually voting) and Invisibility voted you for that. What's the issue?

Wdym?

any questions for me about the game so far? I find it better for me to digest the information/catchup if I can interact with it.

also is it me or is invisibility too scummy to be scum.

I was having a similar delimma, but ultimately feel like Korina's lynch would help me determine that.

Also... sorry Korina. <3

I mean, either I'm the D1 lynch or I live till the end (usually), so, I don't see why you're apologizing. I'm already kinda used to getting lynched D1.

Also I feel you ignored my response to you as well as Oath's question about your MafMen vote.

If I missed something, then why don't you quote what I missed so I can see it, and not obviously miss it?

No, my vote was still on Maf because I didn't have anyone else I was really suspecting, plus, I didn't see the need to change my vote. Why bother changing it if it'd be to unvote and nothing else?

ah sorry I should have kept reading before jumping in lmao, my bad will try not to do it again.

weren't you suspecting Manatee? this explanation feels super inconsistent with your posts about wanting to vote Manatee but also worrying about the wagon size

Yes, I did. That's called "posting while tired and not thinking about things like that"

What strawman? And also, my TR on Blackstar is based on this game I ran. His tone feels similar to this game

Post 91 addresses Post 60 like it was saying "quickhammers don't happen" or "quickhammers aren't bad," both of which are laughable premises and ALSO not what 60 was saying at all.

also not seeing what you're apparently seeing re: blackstar meta

1) That's not a strawman, that's a legit concern about quickhammering again on accident. Keyword: ON ACCIDENT.
I quickhammered in MCFM because I miscounted on Doom and thought he was at L-2, not L-1.
2) Looking at how Blackstar was playing that game feels similar to how he was in this game (before he replaced out).

[Korina]

@Oka Because if I'm at L-1 D1 as a VT, literally nothing I say can get me off the stand, barring some horrible slip from someone else, which if someone's at L-1, obviously scum are gonna be watching what they're saying to ensure that won't happen.

Basically, I'm dead either way, why delay what's gonna happen regardless?

[Korina]

Oh wait, am I at L-1?

[Korina]

Also, read my games on TOS forums.
I self-hammered there at L-1 plenty of times.

[Korina]

My username on there is STAA

[Korina]

Also, not self-hammering yet because I'm trying to find games where I did.
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=76339

^^ That's one on MS. Rest are on tos forums.

[Korina]

http://blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewto ... 0#p2067430
http://blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewto ... 2#p1855602
https://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/v ... 4#p1832554

These were the major ones I could find scrolling through old posts of mine.
Which, honestly, I'm still shocked how toxic I was back on those forums.

[Korina]

So, there's proof I can

and

will self-hammer regardless of alignment.

Also, Oka, I'm a guy.

[Korina]

I mean, I still will self-hammer regardless because when you've been PL'd numerous times, and you get wagoned to L-1 you kinda just stop caring.

[Korina]

Also, you're fine on the gender thing, it's happened now... 8 times I think.

[Korina]

Also also, I just don't care enough to self-hammer since I'm starting to fall asleep rn.

IMO if scum korina was thinking about this clearly, i really don't see why she would threaten to self hammer an L1, it's a damned if you do and a damned if you don't.

if you do self hammer well its a free lynch for town, and if you don't then that can easily be scumread and then probably guarantee a lynch on oneself later on at the very least.

and if town korina was thinking about this clearly, i still don't see why you would threaten to self hammer. because town would never want to actually self hammer, at least in this setup. im pretty sure some mods to the turn into neutral survivor, modkill, end day phase when townie self hammers.

i think if anything, it's the defeatist attitude I want to see from Korina explained more.
so @korina, why the defeatist attitude? maybe you can't block yourself from getting lynched and make yourself seem town, but can't you still scumhunt while you are being attacked and attempt to present better wagons?

if you think about it, if you are truly town then you know that you are the only guaranteed towns, so it would be a mistake to lynch you 100% of the time while everyone else has at least a chance of being scum so literally lynching anyone else would be more optimal.

Currently, I suspect Guilty, Manatee, and Invis, (and correct me if I'm wrong on this), but, you guys think Manatee is lynchbait, Invis is something (probably lynchbait) and Guilty is town, so why would I try to wagon those people if the general consensus is that they're town?

P-Edit: That's a first. Most of the time it's my name

[Korina]

Also, if I'm hammered while I'm asleep:
Oka and Blackstar are town.
I don't like Manatee, Invis or Guilty.
Anti is in a weird spot of being able to go both ways very easily.
Everyone else I don't know.

[Korina]

Oh wait
I'm dumb

[Korina]

Oka is lock town imo.

[Korina]

Ignore the fact I didn't realize Oka replaced into Blackstar's slot.

[Korina]

I'll answer your questions in the morning if I'm not dead by then, Guilty.

[Korina]

@Oath and @Anti I’m bad at counting. I even said “oh wait, I’m at L-1?” before not caring enough to actually self-hammer because I needed to sleep.

[Korina]

I mean, I still will self-hammer regardless because when you've been PL'd numerous times, and you get wagoned to L-1 you kinda just stop caring.

you probably get PL'd / L-1'd because you continually threaten to self-hammer and have a history of doing it as town

chicken and egg situation you know

I could still be sold on scum!Manatee, probably not scum!Invisibility for today but wouldn't object to someone putting pressure on him for information if nothing else. the gamestate is never as fixed as you think it is

but you're literally never going to convince people if you don't give reasons. like why am I new a suspect? if manatee is scum, what do you make of MafMen's meta defense of him? why exactly are you reading Blackstar as "town by meta" when I don't see anything in his ISO that's particularly hard for scum to fake?

1) Call me a hypocrite on this for all I care, but I'm calling bluff on what you tried. I don't like your L-1 vote on me in the attempt to get me to self-hammer. I don't see why town would want to try to get a selfhammer, but I do get why scum would want to try to get that.
2) I need to re-read MafMen.
3) Looking at Blackstar's ISO and compared to this game I modded Blackstar feels similar to that game (he was a VT in that game). Now, I could be sorely mistaken, but, from my initial reaction, it seems like Blackstar is town. Would have to see how Oka plays ultimately.

Ignore the fact I didn't realize Oka replaced into Blackstar's slot.

okay so it's not the strongest piece of evidence but semantically this bugs me

you say you "didn't realize" the replacement happened, which to me implies that there was never a point prior where you took note of the replace. That to me is scummy - I think town would say they "forgot" the replacement happened or "got confused" or something equivalent, because while these mix-ups do happen, the base understanding that Blackstar replaced out and Oka took over should still have been mentally noted at some point by a townie looking to sort the slot.

But when you say you "didn't realize" and thus imply that this is your first time noticing it, it makes me think you aren't trying to sort Blackstar/Oka at all

I didn't realize that Oka replaced Blackstar. I knew that Blackstar was being replaced, I just didn't see that Oka replaced Blackstar though.

you CAN count to 2 tho... right?

Its been established before that I can't count very well.

Scum POE : Invisibility, Korina, OkaPoka (probably will change later)

how could you possibly know now how the read's going to change...?

I don't like this.
I really don't.

Anti, please explain why scumreads wouldn't change through-out the course of the game.

[Korina]

I mean, I suck at counting votes in FM.

This game, this game, also this game all show that I am bad at counting votes.

[Korina]

I also feel like I'm missing another game, but, eh, w/e.

[Korina]

Sorry about this korina, you seem like a good person but

VOTE: korina
l1
there is no way you put this much effort as a player to use self meta as a defense and research your games and then turn around and excuse lazy plays such as selfhammering and failure to count votes.


whole selfhammering thing you pulled off feels like a scum!gambit to derail the wagon now that I've had a bit more time to think about it.

Oka, we have established very well that I am horrible at counting votes.

[Korina]

I hope im not scum though I might have misread my role pm

Manatee imo is kinda sus if you are asking for my read on him. It's been pointed out before i think, 51 and 77 feel a little bit defensive and manatee isn't exactly a new player so you can't forgive him for that.

but i also don't like korina, imo those two are my top two scumreads, so im trying to figure out if one of them is scum or both of them are scum.

Also, Oka, what do you mean by the bolded part?

[Korina]

Also, guilty, I'm reading back things rn, I'm reconsidering my Blackstar/Oka TR.

[Korina]

Yes, but why would that be your fourth post in, not your first one?

[Korina]

korina shouldn't self hammer

Yes, obviously, but what else?

[Korina]

hi
korina is still scum

k i might stick with my reads because this sounds like straight up bussing

VOTE: Korina
after this flips scum we lynch invis

I won't flip scum actually.

I also think that was hammer Maf.

[Korina]

If that is, I don't like Manatee, Invis or Maf.
Oka, Guilty and Anti are all null (oka leans towards scum, guilty leans towards town)
Anyone else I'm unsure about

[Korina]

Yup, that's a hammer.

[Korina]

Get the lurkers to give roles. I'm certain there's one scum within the lurkers

[Korina]

Invis/Maf scumteam is very likely imo

[Korina]

Sorry about this korina, you seem like a good person but

VOTE: korina
l1
there is no way you put this much effort as a player to use self meta as a defense and research your games and then turn around and excuse lazy plays such as selfhammering and failure to count votes.


whole selfhammering thing you pulled off feels like a scum!gambit to derail the wagon now that I've had a bit more time to think about it.

Did you not read this??

[Korina]

VOTE: Korina

Sorry what did you say Oka?

[Korina]

Also, Maf, I'm the one who's bad at counting votes.
I really don't believe that considering Oka voted me like 5 posts before that.

[Korina]

Anyways, you guys have what I think:
Scum is in: Manatee, Invis, Maf (with Invis/Maf scumteam likely)
Guilty, Oka and Anti are all null (with guilty leaning town, oka leaning slight scum and anti being null)
No idea on lurkers.

Get lurkers to be active, at least one scum is in there IMO

[Korina]

Tbh, I really think if Invis tried to look townie, town could’ve won.
Should’ve also hung Mafmen earlier than D3 IMO.

[Korina]

Thanks for hosting Khan, regardless of my salt.

[Korina]

It still is very true.
I may be a terrible player, but at least I try.

P-Edit: When?

[Korina]

I basically stopped reading after I died

[Korina]

Tbh, idc so...

[Korina]

I don’t care enough*