Labyrinth Mafia (Endgame)

[Ankamius]

so what does tbg's flip mean

[Ankamius]

the overwhelming majority on creature wagon does seem pretty weird if he's town tbh

i still don't understand why tpfkap/renais lynch aren't on the table and why this playerlist is completely OK with the level of bullshit in the thread. realtalk if it continues to be this awful I might just /out

this is probably why tbg died

[Ankamius]

tbh that probably means we're dead tonight anyways

sigh

[Ankamius]

mastina's presence has been minimal

[Ankamius]

or I could point you to the recently completed turn of camn game, which had three back to back scumlynches the first three days followed by town lynches until an endgame

this was literally bc Elli caught 3/4 scum
town got cocky
town here is on the back foot, NOT cocky. we need a red flip.

that's fair

but

you have 4 scum, all of which have an interest in staying alive or helping their team stay alive
you have one scum who has an interest in staying alive

which is easier to catch

[Ankamius]

So, basically, I'm willing to lynch any of the worst, Reality, Creature, or Random.

this team makes no sense

[Ankamius]

Creature is OK but I don't think that flip gives much of any info without another scum flip.

The thing about lynches like that is they're traps if the gamestate is one where most of town is pretty deep and only a couple are being competent

It's not necessarily what's going on here but it begs the question of now necessary it is to eliminate that quickly when there's a similar scum equity lynch with far more information attached.

I can go into theory more if anyone wants to engage it, but I don't think scum lynches are necessarily good for town.

Also just to make this point clear

This means that the no lynch day one could easily have lost town the game already if my views on that are accurate to this game.

It's entirely possible we have a timer going and a limited amount of players able to catch any or multiple scum.

Creature sure as hell doesn't fall under that umbrella. He never lives to endgame in this gamestate, so lynching him isn't always a positive idea.

I'm more glad you have that role because now scum can't just kill all the most competent slots and be done with it because they have to get rid of you too.

[Ankamius]

I really don’t see how this invalidates my point. Are you seriously suggesting that mislynching you is somehow worse than mislynching, the worst, Vartsun or me? That makes no sense whatsoever. Mislynching any ACTIVE villa is always bad for town. I don’t see how your mislynch is worse for town than any other. If you seriously believe this, I have no words. In a regular game, I would not be questioning this nearly as much.

this isn't responding to anything I said

my point is that investigating me is worthless because this slot will be effectively sorted within a couple days and odds are we'll be nightkilled within that timeframe anyways

the worst has tried to convince nico of that as well as myself

she's stuck in the idea that mastina will snow everybody and make this slot impossible to lynch if it's not investigated, which has been proven wrong

[Ankamius]

I strongly believe the underground thing is very much a player action

It looks about the same as today's masquerade. Do you think it is also player action?

that's why it's very very likely a player action

this might be too close to spoiling the full theory of what I think this is

oh well, it's not like it's too difficult to figure out

[Ankamius]

When I really have my head in a game - like I do here, I almost always have good reads.

do you have the "nobody ever understands my correct cases" thing too

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Shoshin

[Ankamius]

Taly needs to start existing

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: Shoshin
VOTE: Taly

[Ankamius]

although I will state that with how much I've been putting in the neighborhood and how open I've been

if Wheme was scum and I was on track to destroying his team, I would've died by now.

that's partly a reason why I was pushing Taly today

[Ankamius]

I will go into my thoughts later

But Shoshin, you were wrong. We would have likely won faster if you died night 3

[Ankamius]

Considering how misguided both you and Ank were reads-wise, I think maybe instead of blaming me for your bad reads you should take this opportunity to learn from where you went wrong.

I am so close to just going on a full rant instead of making this a learning experience for you.

[Ankamius]

Uhhhh RC

I don't remember you telling me any alignments but Shoshin's

[Ankamius]

It's possible I missed it but I definitely didn't read any others

[Ankamius]

Math that's not a site rule and if she had died for you town would have lost this I am almost certain.

The game would have gone far differently had Shoshin died N3.

1. The operational townblock we had set up would've been fully in place and the worst would have almost certainly been added to it via the neighborhood. That by itself is a locktown bloc of CommanderShepard/RealityCheck/NancyDrew39/theworst, leaving only Whemestar, Scioness Sajj, Chickadee, Taly, and randommidget as unknowns. Just that by itself means town guarantees a win just by having one more town locked, which is very doable with Whemestar in a neighborhood with mastina and myself.

2. Shoshin was a slot that was under fire from multiple town. Just having that suspicion and paranoia cleared up would force us to reevaluate our reads

even if I had not already accepted Shoshin as part of the townblock.

3. With our N3 voyeur shot, we would normally be able to confirm HOW Shoshin died, which prevents possible shenanigans regarding that later on. (I say should because... a. I chose the less elegant target for that purpose, b. Whemestar forgot to submit the action, and c. I didn't push Whemestar to remember to submit the action.)

This is a

very good

spot for town to be in and is remarkably close to a solved game state where town can't lose. Now, this is what ended up happening:

1. Commander Shepard died. This destroyed the townblock because Shoshin was the weak link inside it, Nancy and I were otherwise not synced, and the worst could not be added to it. We were effectively back at square one.

2. Shoshin was already under general suspicion and paranoia that was only stopped because of the mechanical 'clear' that CShep had her in. With the plan of having her protect the slot that died having failed, that shield evaporated.

3. The reasoning was very very sketchy, the type of reasoning that scum locked into an unfavoring claim would do. This looked far far far worse later on when she later asked to be spared so she can prove her role. Overall,

not

dying helped derail the town's overall read correction that was underway going into night three. This is a huge reason I went fully off the rails this game, because I could not see a gamestate where Shoshin was not scum anymore.

[Ankamius]

So yes, your reads were very good overall and my tunnel day two wasn't, but I was starting to correct myself.

The main reason I'm mad in the first place is because you entered the postgame loudly shouting about how your reads were amazing and town would have won if you were sheeped,

yet when town was starting to shift over to your side, you made a call that destroyed that momentum completely.

I made a lot of mistakes (and... well, mastina, despite only being able to devote a fraction of the effort I did into the game, had me way beat in reads by the end), but I strongly believe that there is a lot more complexity to the decision to bodyguard CShep than you're giving it credit for. I don't think it would've taken town a huge drawn out battle to win, the game might have been solved on day four.

(I didn't even go into having more voyeur shots available... I was so proud of that gambit too)

[Ankamius]

btw just for clarity's sake, I've been in that position before. It sucks. All you can really do is take what you can get and hope that you leave the town in a good enough spot to win without you.

[Ankamius]

I think it's better if I bow out of this conversation now

[Ankamius]

I don't know what to tell you, Nancy. I think there's some fundamental personality block or something because I still don't really understand what wasn't clear about my thoughts regarding the day two lynch.

But that also probably needs a lot of context into why I don't think scum lynches are necessarily good for town, etc.

so.

[Ankamius]

I genuinely was believing that town was in a dangerous state where scum just needed to kill the most competent town in order to win the game, so having as much raw information and probable scum lynches available was something I wanted to prioritize. Having a slot that was basically confirmed scum to most people die was a play that runs into the scum-advantage half of that theory.

[Ankamius]

(ftr, a big reason I was believing that in the first place was because of how insanely disorganized the town became when Sajj/worst/myself were in the underground)

[Ankamius]

I probably would've ended up following tbh

[Ankamius]

I've been in a game where scum had secret access to a neighborhood, Nancy.

Plus I was considering Wheme being scum too.

[Ankamius]

I don't remember exactly what the theory was anymore, but I suspected that Nico wasn't actually supposed to die night two initially. I wasn't sure what exactly it was supposed to be, but I thought by the end that Shoshin was aware of the Voyeurs and wanted to take a bodyguard gambit to fake a surprise protection.

Something like that.

[Ankamius]

my two cents on shoshin; town would be way better off if she had bg'd CS. She has a naturally scummy manipulative-like style of playing, despite how accurate she might be, that makes her ideal to push. With her dead it would be difficult for scum to push anyone, really. Maaybe wheme.

I'm curious, would you call it somewhat similar to mine?

[Ankamius]

Oh, Wisdom, more curiosity

Why did you push for Chickadee day four when you replaced in instead of Shoshin or another town?

[Ankamius]

She has a naturally scummy manipulative-like style of playing, despite how accurate she might be, that makes her ideal to push.

I might seem easy to push but it's a trap for the scum. I'm not an easy mislynch.

see

this is why I say we have similar playstyles

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Anka

Oh no you didn't

You're getting the claws

[Ankamius]

Nancy just refer to the slot as me

Mastina had input occasionally but otherwise the train wreck was my doing

[Ankamius]

Shrug

I got what I needed to this game so

[Ankamius]

I've been in a game where scum had secret access to a neighborhood, Nancy.

Plus I was considering Wheme being scum too.

That was my game

I'm referring to a Skullduggery game

[Ankamius]

I want my neighborhood released at least since that was my equivalent of a private PT this game

[Ankamius]

If you can figure out how to decipher how he thinks town vs scum, let me know

I still can't and the two of us have been friends for over a year

[Ankamius]

(tbf though I read motivation and tone a lot better than raw logic or information so that's probably why)

[Ankamius]

I hope it's the type that's very difficult to manipulate for that reason

[Ankamius]

Same... Well, at least what I want to do since my current job isn't glamorous

[Ankamius]

I'd guess some kind of investigator or businessperson

[Ankamius]

I work in a gas station ._.

My passion is writing and the job I think would fit my particular skill set the best is probably some type of psychology field

[Ankamius]

I'm a yoga teacher.

That makes sense, yeah

[Ankamius]

Probably the problem solving element of the game if I had to guess

[Ankamius]

Did any of the neighborhoods and other PTs ever get released?

I still want the Voyeur one released : (