Open 731: Twin Trap (Game Over)


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Post Post #3 (isolation #0) » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:34 pm

Post by BuJaber »

VOTE: Egg
For having the tastiest name.
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Post Post #4 (isolation #1) » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:35 pm

Post by BuJaber »

Though admittedly there are at least two other contenders to that title.
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Post Post #5 (isolation #2) » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:36 pm

Post by BuJaber »

@mod: if you don't mind could we have a sexy sexy brief setup summary in p0?
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Post Post #13 (isolation #3) » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:43 am

Post by BuJaber »

In post 8, Fromage wrote:Yeah. How can egg be tastier than cheese?

VOTE: BluJaber Lynch all liars.
Yeah but you used the french word for cheese, and frankly for a non-french speaker it doesn't make me think of food. Maybe a wine.

If you were called cheese or just a direct name of a cheese we'd be in agreement.
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Post Post #14 (isolation #4) » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:44 am

Post by BuJaber »

You being 1 head instead of 2 will probably help no matter what Inferno :)
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Post Post #17 (isolation #5) » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:46 am

Post by BuJaber »

In post 12, Eragon wrote:Why not eggs AND cheese?
Conveniently enough you're neither.

Trying to avoid votes?

VOTE: Eragon
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Post Post #18 (isolation #6) » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:47 am

Post by BuJaber »

Consider my vote on inferno also for the same reason.
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Post Post #20 (isolation #7) » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:51 am

Post by BuJaber »

I love that he double voted you.. you dead man you dead. Strong move by Eragon.
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Post Post #23 (isolation #8) » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:59 am

Post by BuJaber »

In post 21, Almost50 wrote:
In post 10, Eragon wrote:Also I claim watchacker
Fight me!

I rolled Watcher, Tracker & VT all in one. I even got my role PM twice :wink:
So what happened to the 3rd PM?
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Post Post #34 (isolation #9) » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:47 am

Post by BuJaber »

In post 33, Inferno390 wrote:Because I find it’s a good way to get out of RVS. Helps me judge interactions and gather info. It hasn’t failed me yet, and I doubt it will start now.
Egg is scum now btw.
VOTE: Egg
Talk us through that one??
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Post Post #77 (isolation #10) » Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:44 pm

Post by BuJaber »

I wouldn't jump to an associative read between inferno/manatee yet.

Inferno are you seriously trying to "conftown" me based on me asking the mod to post the setup spec? It's an open game. It is expected from the mod. I've read the setup when I signed up. I need a refresher regardless. I'll probably read the setup several times during the game. People forget things. It's not AI. Coupled with you only mentioning me as a player you know it's sounds like buddying. But like super obvious buddying. And he seems to be doing it with Eragon too and if Eragon is townie too then I question what scum motivation there is for pushing townreads on 2 townies so early.

I think A50 makes good points but it is the sort of policy case that can easily be pushed by scum. It's based on fact rather than subjective opinion. Very methodical approach (Action A is anti-town. Player B did action A. Therefore Player B is scum). So this push itself should be NAI.

I dislike Manatee's posting the most. Reads awkwardly and feels like trying to keep all his options open. He doesn't seem very committed to one opinion over another.

VOTE: Manatee
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Post Post #78 (isolation #11) » Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:46 pm

Post by BuJaber »

^^ L-2
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Post Post #86 (isolation #12) » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:39 am

Post by BuJaber »

In post 79, Eragon wrote:So are you calling A50 mechanical? And is that the towny, scummy, or neither?? Just asking to see your pinion on A50
Unclear yet. I can't determine his intentions based on just this because like I said it is NAI. When he posts more and we get an idea what his motivation is we'll know if it's genuine or not.
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Post Post #88 (isolation #13) » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:47 am

Post by BuJaber »

In post 84, Fromage wrote:
In post 83, Egg wrote:I think BuJaber is town, but it's not because he reminded the Mod something was missing in the OP.
Why don't you tell us why you think BuJaber is town? Is it because he doesn't want to get townread for asking about the setup?
I hesitate to call this a leading question because I can't tell if you yourself would townread that but at the same time the second question messes with the integrity of his answer. It's much better to ask an open ended question and hear their untainted response first then ask any follow ups you may have.
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Post Post #89 (isolation #14) » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:52 am

Post by BuJaber »

In post 85, Fromage wrote:A lot of Eragon's posts contain only fluff. (, , ) I don't like it. VOTE: Eragon

FOS: Inferno. I don't like how much time he spends defending himself and how little scumhunting he does.
Agree on most posts but 54 feels kind townie. What are your thoughts on it?
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Post Post #91 (isolation #15) » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:03 am

Post by BuJaber »

Egg have you played with inferno before?
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Post Post #103 (isolation #16) » Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:45 am

Post by BuJaber »

Conflicted about burger. On the one hand it does seem like he's jumping to conclusions based on little evidence but that's slso a whole lot of effort just to build a case on inferno who is lynchbait frankly.
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Post Post #106 (isolation #17) » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:18 am

Post by BuJaber »

Vote for manatee. Bad posts, lack of action, and the other 2 on his wagon seem townie to me on first impression.

Do you have a response to inferno?
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Post Post #133 (isolation #18) » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:53 pm

Post by BuJaber »

In post 117, Fromage wrote:
In post 115, Fromage wrote:I'm not even sure if I scumread him.
Read: I don't (seriously) scumread eragon.
Why the vote then?
In post 122, Almost50 wrote:
In post 119, Fromage wrote:
In post 112, Almost50 wrote:force the Scum to claim a PR
(the PR they're immune to)
Iirc, you said yourself that discussing PRs is anti-town. I agree and think the same applies to discussing optimal scum tactics. Do you disagree?
This isn't just "optimal", it's a rule (unless they really really don't know how to play the game).

But the reason I said that is to alert the
TPRs
that's what's gonna happen, so if we get a PR claim they
do not CC
(and if they flip overnight we will know whom to lynch anyway). The TPR will now take that claim and avoid targeting that person becasie they know this is the scum that is IMMUNE to their action.

With some luck the TPR may catch the OTHER scum overnight and then they can claim on D2 leading to a town win with 2 successive lynches.
LAMIST much?
In post 124, Inferno390 wrote:Okay
And on the off chance we actually are running up the given TPR?
See, this looks like an attempt to throw WIFOM into any claim we get off the lynch. We get a PR claim and no CC, and then scum intentionally leaves the PR alive to throw confusion into town and perhaps grab a mislynch.

Also reads like an excuse to run up people to get claims.
If you just took a second to think this through you'll know it's wrong. Also don't make him continue a conversation that shouldn't have started in the first place.

@Inferno - my statement is missing the words 'as town'. Inferno is lynchbait as town. He could be scum. But honestly as unhelpful as his posting has been (mainly defending himself) gun to my head I'd say he's town here. He feels attacked and spends all his time and effort defending himself. I'm not adept at reading someone like him because he's the type that makes it really difficult to townread. He distracts himself and distracts everyone and gets emotional.
Now granted I haven't seem his scum game but given that happens with him as town you have to really try and gauge his overall tone/motivations.

For example earlier I thought he was maybe buddying me. But considering he is attacking pretty much anyone who critiques or votes for him, there doesn't seem to be any interest in making friends. Unless he really thinks that if he convinces me he's town that I alone can change everyone's mind. That would be hilariously wrong as I'm rarely a town leader in any game, let alone in a playerbase that includes A50 and a few 5+ year veterans. So if it's not buddying then does that line of thinking and bad logic regarding my question to the mod make sense from scum pov? I don't really think so. Scum would be more self-conscious about using bad logic like that.
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Post Post #136 (isolation #19) » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:08 pm

Post by BuJaber »

Wow that is a long deadline for a 9 player game.

But tbh in this setup quickhammer guarantees that inferno is town and that at least 1 scum is on the wagon. It would have been a good thing.

Did inferno claim?
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Post Post #137 (isolation #20) » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:15 pm

Post by BuJaber »

Poseidon I call upon thee. We have lots of content now. Thoughts?
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Post Post #138 (isolation #21) » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:19 pm

Post by BuJaber »

A50 do you have recent scum open games you can link?
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Post Post #141 (isolation #22) » Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:15 am

Post by BuJaber »

In post 133, BuJaber wrote:@Inferno - my statement is missing the words 'as town'. Inferno is lynchbait as town. He could be scum. But honestly as unhelpful as his posting has been (mainly defending himself) gun to my head I'd say he's town here. He feels attacked and spends all his time and effort defending himself. I'm not adept at reading someone like him because he's the type that makes it really difficult to townread. He distracts himself and distracts everyone and gets emotional.
Now granted I haven't seem his scum game but given that happens with him as town you have to really try and gauge his overall tone/motivations.

For example earlier I thought he was maybe buddying me. But considering he is attacking pretty much anyone who critiques or votes for him, there doesn't seem to be any interest in making friends. Unless he really thinks that if he convinces me he's town that I alone can change everyone's mind. That would be hilariously wrong as I'm rarely a town leader in any game, let alone in a playerbase that includes A50 and a few 5+ year veterans. So if it's not buddying then does that line of thinking and bad logic regarding my question to the mod make sense from scum pov? I don't really think so. Scum would be more self-conscious about using bad logic like that.

This is @Eragon not @Inferno if not clear. Sorry
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Post Post #163 (isolation #23) » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:53 am

Post by BuJaber »

In post 162, GameNBurger wrote:P edit: looks like I’mnonlonger the l-1 vote so problem solved
Lol

Like it never happened, eh?

What kinda logic is this?!
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Post Post #166 (isolation #24) » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:12 am

Post by BuJaber »

I'm not so sure Eragon is town anymore. The quickhammer talk reads fake to me. Got my eye on you.

Manatee got significant pressure early on (first to L-2 I think) and still doesn't seem interested in posting more/ posting anything useful.
You realize his entire ISO is pretty much going back and forth on inferno?
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Post Post #169 (isolation #25) » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:20 am

Post by BuJaber »

In my defense I read it the wrong way at first. I thought you were actually trying to say that since inferno isn't at L-1 anymore that people don't have to discuss your L-1 vote anymore. Which made me laugh.
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Post Post #171 (isolation #26) » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:40 am

Post by BuJaber »

When did I say they were solid?

Liking Egg for town
Leaning town for fromage even though that eragon vote earlier urks me, his posts are giving off genuine scumhunting vibes. Inferno too would be a townlean for the reasons mentioned on page 6.

Poseidon - needs to post more
Burger - can't tell.

A50 i've got down as neutral because it isn't about lack of analyzable posts, it's that I'm not sure how to place him. Looks townie on the surface but I have this feeling that that's because he's trying to look town.
Eragon I liked some of his walls but this hammer talk really doesn't seem genuine. I'm also not sure why he's that worried about a hammer this early. Maybe it's something he's seen a lot but I haven't seen it often in my experience. (Talking about early hammer with deadline still a little ways to go)

Manatee looks scummy
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Post Post #175 (isolation #27) » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:13 am

Post by BuJaber »

But the difference that 1 vote makes is huge.
A hammer is final.
The player dies. The day ends. The night begins. It has serious repercussions. It changes the town:scum ratio. It cannot be missed. It doesn't get ignored.

L-1 while serious, is in the end a vote that can be unvoted, even if it's the vote that puts a wagon right on the edge. In fact, in many cases L-1 triggers scum to unvote from the wagon for whatever reason that is applicable to the game they're in.

But yes inferno should claim
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Post Post #197 (isolation #28) » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:27 am

Post by BuJaber »

I'd actually be very impressed if burger flips scum after all that.

Though I don't understand his approach and I think a lot of what he's doing is based on circumstantial evidence and could all be a waste of time.

There's no harm in thinking about possible associations a little to help you sort people, but making a whole entire list based on someome being scum that hasn't flipped yet seems like an exercise in futility.

Just highly unlikely that this comes from scum tbh.
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Post Post #199 (isolation #29) » Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:44 am

Post by BuJaber »

Fine
But the point is when someone flips town you know they definitely don't have any partners. When someone flips scum you know that you only need to study pairings that include them.

Doing this before any flips is just an insane amount of extra work that will likely cause you to read subtext that doesn't exist or something and then in the end once we get a flip or two most of the listings would become irrelevant.

What I usually do is if I see a post that someone makes about someone or a conversation between two people or some weird case on someone I talk about specific reasons why that action probably means that x and y are not partners or that x is scum if y flips scum or similar specifix pairings based on a specific set of actions.

Like take this game for example. Inferno and A50. Very very very unlikely that they are scum partners. So if one flips scum the other is cleared more or less. Any associative that you may perceive that isn't very strong that you are not sure about if it means they are partners or not isn't worth thinking about imo. Just focus on ones that are really obvious.

The other issue is that a lot of the time an associative read might indicate a one-way relationship but not necessarily the inverse. Meaning say you read a post by player x and you think "okay player x is scum if player y flips town" you might have solid reasoning to believe that but just because this might be true would not mean that "if player y flips scum player x is town". So the associative read only gives you info for one scenario but not another. So it might be unhelpful to mention it until player y actually flips. Because if y doeant die or if x dies first you will have nothing.

I hope that makes sense
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Post Post #210 (isolation #30) » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:23 pm

Post by BuJaber »

So why aren't we lynching Manatee?
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Post Post #247 (isolation #31) » Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:46 pm

Post by BuJaber »

In post 242, Eragon wrote:
/unvote


tbh.

im scared here.

I have hated the Inferno slot and think its Scummy AF, but the AtE and a couple posts on this page seem towny.
Interesting reaction.
The AtE is scummier than all his other posts.

I don't see how you could scumread the early stuff but townread this.
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Post Post #255 (isolation #32) » Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:13 am

Post by BuJaber »

What is this game :yawn:
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Post Post #265 (isolation #33) » Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:11 am

Post by BuJaber »

In post 257, Egg wrote:BuJaber, walk me through your thought process. Why does scum not make that post that Game made?
Ehhhh just I don't think there's any benefit gained by it for scum except maybe the WIFOM of getting townread. But if that's the case I think there are far easier ways to do so that require less effort.

It's not even something he is definitely going to be townread for. Like I did sure, but at the same time the post really doesn't help town much so I could see how some might scumread it.

That last part might be circular logic now that I think about it but there you go. First part at least is still relevant.
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Post Post #319 (isolation #34) » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:01 pm

Post by BuJaber »

It's pretty clear. It can be seen as opportunistic but you are also correct about fromage. So really a case like that is NAI. Basically fromage IS an easy target for scum to go after. But fromage IS being non-commital and opportunistic.

Talk about other people. You're wasting time.
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Post Post #333 (isolation #35) » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:57 am

Post by BuJaber »

Nah it's just Tora
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Post Post #335 (isolation #36) » Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:03 am

Post by BuJaber »

It's not a difficult game to size up imo. Townread the obvious townies claim a null read on the few difficult to read and stick the rest in the scum pool.

They each want attention away from themselves. Tora's play makes little sense if he townreads Inferno for real. Just reads like someone who wants the slot (wh4t) to be lynched but doesn't want to seem too eager. At the same time if inferno flips townie he looks like a genius for 'townreading' the replace-out.

I mean the case hinges on Inferno being town tbh but if inferno slot does flip town it's open and shut.
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Post Post #344 (isolation #37) » Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:16 am

Post by BuJaber »

The point of the post was to tell eragon that it isn't very unlikely that the two of you ended up with similar reads.

Me/burger/eragon I would say are obvtown. Eragon makes me nervous with his hammer/wagon reactions but a lot of his posts are townie and he did explain the stuff about his homesite which could explain his reactions. I could see A50 being in this list for some people I just think we should give him a healthy amount of respect for his scumgame. Also I don't really agree with the inferno push. I've pretty confident inferno slot is town. And there's a few posts that look rather LAMIST coming from him.

Wh4t specifically has been kinda null ... but in the end he hasn't given me a reason to doubt my earlier read of his slot so yeah I think he's town.
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Post Post #345 (isolation #38) » Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:20 am

Post by BuJaber »

So basically as of now scum look to be in {tora, fromage, poseidon, a50, egg} egg is there by default but I personally have a townlean gut read on him.
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Post Post #373 (isolation #39) » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:38 am

Post by BuJaber »

He's also better at looking town as town than this.

Though in all honesty I'm voting him because of manatee.
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Post Post #475 (isolation #40) » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:55 am

Post by BuJaber »

What if game is trying to kill A50 through natural causes?

In all seriousness, I don't think this is the right time to second guess ourselves. If we're wrong about Tor we reflect on that tomorrow. And it'll likely flip scum imo. The lynch should go through.
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Post Post #544 (isolation #41) » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:41 pm

Post by BuJaber »

In post 541, Wh4t wrote:I don't feel any real frustration from you either which is a red flag for me when someone is L-1. It just feels like you're hoping to reason your way out of it and like you're just pleading. I think you're much better at coveying emotion than what you're showing this game.

Come on now I like it.
Too many people using AtE these days and it isn't AI.

Don't hammer Poseidon. We already caught scum and he's getting away with it
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Post Post #547 (isolation #42) » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:50 am

Post by BuJaber »

In post 545, Wh4t wrote:The inability to express genuine reactions is totally AI. How do you explain Toranaga's reaction to the derp hammer?
No reasonable player would think the vote with the broken tags counts.

No scum player would assume they were hammered without actually counting unless they already gave up on the game.

So I don't see how we can draw any info from his reaction.
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Post Post #553 (isolation #43) » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:48 am

Post by BuJaber »

It's not either or don't make this into something it's not.

We have scum who claimed VT. What does your crystal ball of optimal play say about that?
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Post Post #555 (isolation #44) » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:18 am

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So if you believe that don't give people a choice.
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Post Post #556 (isolation #45) » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:19 am

Post by BuJaber »

MANIPULATE THE HIVEMIND

*epic music plays*
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Post Post #614 (isolation #46) » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:40 pm

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Good job losers. You just got played by scum.

God damn I wanna lynch all 4 of you.

VOTE: eragon
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Post Post #615 (isolation #47) » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:42 pm

Post by BuJaber »

Eragon wants everyone dead. If he's town it's his fucking fault.
He's on a wagon pogo-stick. Hopping like mad.
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Post Post #616 (isolation #48) » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:44 pm

Post by BuJaber »

@Tor - that game was different. Yes I was having a lot of trouble townreading you. But I was convinced ONE of you/lavos was scum and I was right. Also I never actually voted you for long there. Here it's different. I want your slot specifically lynched.

Though after the fromage wagon eragon has surpassed anyone's scumminess. I'll revisit your slot after eragon flips.
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Post Post #617 (isolation #49) » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:49 pm

Post by BuJaber »

BTW if A50 stays alive he is 100% scum. Posts are pinging me and in this game I think we can apply the Mathdino scum test on A50.
Not after 1 night.. that's inconclusive. Maybe day 3.

Like why did he need my prodding to actually vote for tor and keep pushing for what he believes to be the correct play?
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Post Post #632 (isolation #50) » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:55 pm

Post by BuJaber »

In post 620, Wh4t wrote:
In post 616, BuJaber wrote:Though after the fromage wagon eragon has surpassed anyone's scumminess.
Why?
In post 615, BuJaber wrote:Eragon wants everyone dead. If he's town it's his fucking fault.
He's on a wagon pogo-stick. Hopping like mad.
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Post Post #633 (isolation #51) » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:57 pm

Post by BuJaber »

We gave him the benefit of the doubt that the first time was because of the meta of his homesite. But now it's getting rediculous. He continues to push people to L-1 then backing off and moving to another target.
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Post Post #634 (isolation #52) » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:01 am

Post by BuJaber »

And whoever asked.. we don't HAVE to believe Fromage. If he/she is alive at LYLO we lynch him/her. It's simple.
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Post Post #635 (isolation #53) » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:02 am

Post by BuJaber »

Wh4t - If Eragon flips green you would still townread Tor?
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Post Post #636 (isolation #54) » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:07 am

Post by BuJaber »

I'm town, wh4t's town, pos looks town, fromage is town.

IF wh4t is actually right and both Eragon and Tora are town then A50 is confscum imo.

But that would be impossible. No sane person can townread both eragon and tor right now. AT LEAST 1 is scum.
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Post Post #641 (isolation #55) » Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:56 am

Post by BuJaber »

In post 637, Wh4t wrote:
In post 633, BuJaber wrote:We gave him the benefit of the doubt that the first time was because of the meta of his homesite. But now it's getting rediculous. He continues to push people to L-1 then backing off and moving to another target.
I'm doing this too?
Luckily inferno was town enough to make up for your play.
In post 639, Wh4t wrote:Why can't they both be town though? Is there something that screams TvS to you?
It has nothing to do with their relationship to each other. It's just that there can't be that many bad town. Especially when you consider that I've played with you, tora, A50, inferno so I know for a FACT you guys aren't this bad. I get that town may make mistakes or may not realize they are making a mistake but statistically 4 competent townies all playing badly isn't likey.

Also 4 people voted for fromage and I townread both you and poseidon so there's only them left. Would be very ballsy of them to both be scum so I assume it's TvS.
In post 640, Wh4t wrote:
In post 636, BuJaber wrote:I'm town, wh4t's town, pos looks town, fromage is town.

IF wh4t is actually right and both Eragon and Tora are town then A50 is confscum imo.

But that would be impossible. No sane person can townread both eragon and tor right now. AT LEAST 1 is scum.
So Burger and Egg aren't town to you? How does that leave only A50?
It doesn't leave just A50 but A50 would become the absolute scummiest person in the game if eragon, tora, (and you and pos) are all town.
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Post Post #643 (isolation #56) » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:39 am

Post by BuJaber »

In post 642, Wh4t wrote:I guess your moonlogic could be townie?
Gotta shoot for the moon, baby.
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Post Post #713 (isolation #57) » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:14 am

Post by BuJaber »

In post 691, Toranaga wrote:this isn't dying at night though. it's not gonna be resolved like that. you guys understand why, yes?
No we don't understand. Well, I don't anyway.
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Post Post #714 (isolation #58) » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:18 am

Post by BuJaber »

The whole basis for voting eragon assumes that the 4 people voting fromage have collectively directly resulted in a TPR NK.
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Post Post #715 (isolation #59) » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:23 am

Post by BuJaber »

And why eragon over the other three is because he was on every wagon before it. He has successfully gotten more claims than anyone.

Can't play open setups like normal setups.
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Post Post #946 (isolation #60) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:48 pm

Post by BuJaber »

You guys should listen to me in the future.

I'd love to stay alive but watcher died anyway and I can't track the track immune. So this is the only guilty we'll get.
I TRACKED TORA AND HE VISITED FROMAGE.

You got buddied up reeeeeeeeal good Wh4t.

Good luck tomorrow.

Will be looking for possible partners.
VOTE: Tora.

Don't end the day until we lay some good thoughts down as to his partner is.
Just for the record if the fromage wagon didn't happen I would have targetted Egg. He's been sort of in the shadows. Nobody scumread him heavily the whole game.

If you read my ISO now with the knowledge that I'm tracker you will see that it's quite obvious.
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Post Post #949 (isolation #61) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:54 pm

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I am not 100% sure of it but the reason I townread inferno was that it looked to me like he was baiting a night kill. I don't think he did a great job but that is something I could definitely see someone like inferno attempting. I'd be very surprised if wh4t is scum.

Same with burger I could see how a lot of his posting is not great from a town's pov but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense coming from scum. But this slot is worrying.

My best bet right now before I reread is that it's egg/pos/a50
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Post Post #955 (isolation #62) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:00 pm

Post by BuJaber »

I'm happy assuming A50 is town just don't completely locktown him.

If he were more stubborn we would have lynched tora yesterday. There's a chance they're buddies. And the whole setup talk looks townie but that's it. It LOOKS townie. He could have for example only mentioned some things when they were relevant like if someone got to L-1 but he started way before that and it could have been signalling to a buddy.

I'd personally start with Egg though I think.

Poseidon unbote please.. tor will self hammer
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Post Post #957 (isolation #63) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:03 pm

Post by BuJaber »

No rule against it. It happens also. Best thing scum can do in that situation.

Also his buddy is alive snd could hammer though it would look bad I suppose.
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Post Post #980 (isolation #64) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:39 pm

Post by BuJaber »

Maybe it's burger then. Hard to say. He could have been artificially blowing up the size of his posts.
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Post Post #994 (isolation #65) » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:04 am

Post by BuJaber »

Everyone should try to reread and formulate some new reads.

That said I think town's strongest remaining tool is the info they get from scum NK.

IF you guys mislynch on day 3 try not to make it too obvious who you think is obvtown.

It would be really bad if the at lylo we have 3 people that everyone heavily suspects, you know what I mean?

Like for example if Eragon was still alive he would be someone you want scum to NK.

The only exception I would say is A50. If he is not NK'd you lynch him at lylo-1.

I fully trust he can find last scum if he is town. But if he is scum I don't want him alive at lylo.
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Post Post #1013 (isolation #66) » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:54 am

Post by BuJaber »

In post 995, Almost50 wrote:@BuJ: Mate, I had you as a string TR for the whole of D1. When you insisted I was scummy I thought you mistook me for a PR and was trying to protect me from the NK by keeping me in the lynch pool. Right now I don't understand why you still think I'm scummy after the flips and the confirmation you yourself got that Tor is indeed scum and should have been lynched.
In theory, I'm still protecting you.
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Post Post #1014 (isolation #67) » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:59 am

Post by BuJaber »

In post 1007, Almost50 wrote:And this reminds me that Egg agreed to my PoV eventually (when the mod confirmed Tor opened his role PM). One more reason why I don't think Egg is Tor's p.
I actually think that comes from a partner more often.
He defends him for a while and then finds a way to agree with you without arousing suspicion.

But if we go by the early game only Egg really was pretty townie, he was my first TR, so I'm conflicted.
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Post Post #1022 (isolation #68) » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:23 am

Post by BuJaber »

See what I mean. You will easily convince people you're town when you are actually town. When you're scum it'll get increasingly difficult with time.

If scum think for a second that maybe you will be lynched they might keep you alive. ;)
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Post Post #1024 (isolation #69) » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:31 am

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I wouldn't be opposed to that in this setup there is no downside. As long as you don't forget to lynch Tor lol.
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Post Post #1026 (isolation #70) » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:35 am

Post by BuJaber »

I don't like 5-card draw. Hold'em is where it's at. :)
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Post Post #1028 (isolation #71) » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:37 am

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Ah I see.. yeah that sounds like something I would not enjoy.
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Post Post #1051 (isolation #72) » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:50 pm

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Tor gave up and claimed scum. That's why A50's plan works.

You don't need a flip to believe me.

Under normal circumstances yes we'd have to go for the normal lynch and confirm my allignment.

Anyway we can lynch Tor if you want. It makes little difference.
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Post Post #1053 (isolation #73) » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:15 pm

Post by BuJaber »

Pos > egg > burger

Main reason being I really don't think burger is scum. Maybe I'm being fooled by him but I just don't see the scum motivation in most of his posts.
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Post Post #1071 (isolation #74) » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:07 pm

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Fromage didn't fully claim. Meant they had to send watch-immune.
If he claimed they'd know to send track-immune. If he were tracker and claimed they'd send watch-immune etc.

Swingy setup for sure. If both PRs live and 1 goon dies it's almost an auto win for town, but it is very easy for the game to end up basically mountainous in which case it swings heavily in scum's favor. That's because 1 PR alone can never get an inno unless the only living goon is the one that isn't immune to them but I think that would rarely happen.
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Post Post #1082 (isolation #75) » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:55 am

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In post 1079, Almost50 wrote:THANK YOU BuJ & Wh4t for trusting me on "my way". It makes the win all so sweeter (let alone the game ended a day earlier)
Are you kidding me? I can count at least 3 times when I've wanted not to lynch outed scum right away and I always get shut down or they turn on me thinking no townie would ever suggest such a taboo thing. I should thank you for finally making it happen. (I might be wrong and it definitely doesn't work for all situations but I feel like sometimes it's worth keeping them alive to see if they will give off any extra info while alive).

I have to agree. I don't think anyone played badly (except manatee I guess) it was just so bad that we as town continued to switch wagons and cause more people to claim. Like I don't know if it's my bias as a PR but I thought that was pretty clearly a very bad thing. If I weren't so sure that Inferno was town I would have lynched him just to stop more people from being outed. That's probably why I didn't defend so hard. (Also for the record I don't have much experience with PRs I didn't want to obvtown too much like I usually do as VT so I was trying to do different "scummy" things - though I consider my lack of experience a blessing because VT is my favorite role :D )
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