Open 731: Twin Trap (Game Over)

[Eragon]

VOTE: /vote ManateeDude

This is scum that never stood a whale of a chance

[Eragon]

Also I claim watchacker

[Eragon]

Why not eggs AND cheese?

[Eragon]

VOTE: /vote ManateeDude

This is scum that never stood a whale of a chance

VOTE: Eragon

Spici

Just like the Red Hot Chili Peppers

[Eragon]

Also I claim watchacker

Fight me!

I rolled Watcher, Tracker & VT all in one. I even got my role PM twice

U wut m8???

[Eragon]

Why yes vote in inferno?

[Eragon]

@Manatee:
So it’s like this:
BuJaber asked for setup spec for this game.
The only thing that I can think of that would prompt that sort of request is if he could not remember what the setup was.
Scum and PRs, would have no reason to not know this due to their role PMs. Well, maybe not PRs, but definitely scum.
So unless BuJaber is the type of scum who would ask for setup spec for town cred, which is extremely convulted logic that I don’t expect anyone to have, he’s most likely town.

@BuJaber: My post is not nearly bad enough to garner a scum read by itself. The fact that Egg is apparently now scumreading me for it is incredibly scummy.

A50 pushing my lynch simply because I’m the best wagon is super sus. How about some real reads rather than some postured sheeping?

I can see where you are going w/this post but Pr/Cit hunting always helps mafia.

Because I find it’s a good way to get out of RVS. Helps me judge interactions and gather info. It hasn’t failed me yet, and I doubt it will start now.
Egg is scum now btw.
VOTE: Egg

I was reffering to you making guesses on roles. Thats almost always proscum behavior, I'm not gonna push you for it tho.

Do you not have any scum reads yet? If not, why no vote on Inferno?

VOTE: Inferno

Im psure this behavilr comes from villa, but some pressure is always good

>votes
>says "p.sure this is villa"
If you think someone is villa then why pressure them?

A50 pushing my lynch simply because I’m the best wagon is super sus.

This phrase is more sus than anything in this thread, and especially so since you're not new and know fully well that an early wagon is always

good

and rarely ever leads to a lynch.

That said, you assessment of BuJaber could've sounded Townie to me,

except

if you really are scum and are afraid to you might get lynched before you convey your thoughts to your p.

The way you initially phrased it was "he's a VT", before you backtracked to state he's unlikely scum but could indeed be a TPR

. See where the contradiction is? You didn't say he's likely Town or likely not scum in your initial statement, but only after having been pressured did you revert to that.

So, rather than a pressure wagon to get us of RVS I', considering yours a serious wagon now and my vote is now for real.

1. you think someone is scared of getting quicklynched barely into D1??
2. he said "Bujaber is probs VT" and then said "not scum but maybe PR/VT"

probably

makes a big difference

Ah, but you see
While it is true that “BuJ is likely Town” DOES NOT mean “BuJ is likely VT”
“BuJ is likely VT” DOES mean “BuJ is likely town”
Those are not two interchangeable points.

You are taking my posts and and attacking me with the former, when it should be clear that my line of thought is firmly in the latter. The only reason for this nonexistent “backtracking” that you think you have found is because I am accounting for the fact that there is a slim possibility for BuJ!PR, though it should be clear that I find it highly unlikely from my posts.

You are crafting your words to display my posts in the worst possible light. This is highly scummy behavior.

I think you are over-exxagerating it a bit, it could just be a misunderstanding, and calling a mis-conception scummy is scummy

Ah, but you see
While it is true that “BuJ is likely Town” DOES NOT mean “BuJ is likely VT”
“BuJ is likely VT” DOES mean “BuJ is likely town”
Those are not two interchangeable points.

OK, let's consider the possibility that you really are Town and my point is flying right over your head, so let me ask you this:

1- What is your duty as a town player? Is it finding out who's town and who's scum or is it finding out who's a PR and who's not?

2- Now what is the scum duty? Is it finding out who's town and who's not or is it finding out who's a PR or who's not?

If you know the answers to both these questions (and I'm sure you do now) I don't see my original point alluding you anymore.

Now what did you say? You specified the ROLE. What is a Townie's main concern? It's the ALIGNMENT. Whose concern is it to find PRs? SCUM. Clear? I believe it should be.

these are both true, and while PR hunting normally helps the wolves, sometimes its good for town to have an idea later game on whats what and if any claims are BS

Ys, it is very clear that you are trying to paint me as scum for something that is not actually that scummy.
VOTE: A50

again overexxageration and an OMGUS

[Eragon]

CRAP I USED WRONG SPOILER TAG

@Host do you mind fixing it? Thanks :3

Removed the spoiler tag. -LMS

[Eragon]

Because I find it’s a good way to get out of RVS. Helps me judge interactions and gather info. It hasn’t failed me yet, and I doubt it will start now.
Egg is scum now btw.
VOTE: Egg

I was reffering to you making guesses on roles. Thats almost always proscum behavior, I'm not gonna push you for it tho.

also this in relation to their vote saying "pressure is always good"

[Eragon]

Eragon, I want to read your post so bad
But I’m on a fricking PHONE

id copy/paste but its a long post

[Eragon]

okay we're at the present day now

I really hope inferno is scum because its going to be a pain playing with him if he's town

Oof that Eragon post is a pain to read

His post I mostly agree with but i EXTREMELY disagree with his reasoning that PR hunting is helpful for town, It something every player should be doing in their heads but there is just no benefit to town that doesn't far more benefit scum to publicly PR hunt in any way

Alright unless I get ninja'd i'm all caught up

All things considered I'm willing to L-1 Inferno based on what we've got from him but I'd like to hear more from Fromage and Poseidon first before anyone even thinks about the word hammer, I personally always feel uneasy with fast lynches Day 1

Only other thing I'd note as super suspicious is Manatee's initial non committal feelings to vote Inferno followed by a near immediate flip when someone asks him about it

If Inferno is scum it screams soft bussing attempts gone wrong

If anyone has questions I'm all ears

sorry about he post ;_;

also, about the bolded part
"these are both true, and while PR hunting

normally helps the wolves

,

sometimes

its good for town to have an

idea

later game on whats what and if any claims are BS"

We shouldn't even be thinking of L-1 right now either...
other than that mostly mind-meld here

[Eragon]

Bolded= *underlined*

[Eragon]

whats IIoA?

[Eragon]

ok thx :>

[Eragon]

Haha, time for discussion generation!
BuJaber is prob a VT.
Post 25 is weird enough to garner some sus.

GameNBurgers lack of appearance is interesting, but NAI due to no daytalk.

Also I claim watchacker

Fight me!

I rolled Watcher, Tracker & VT all in one. I even got my role PM twice

So what happened to the 3rd PM?

:Woke:

I just noticed this... Inferno said that "post 25 is weird enough to gather some sus"

what was post 25? was it a meme, was it a wall, was it a vote, was It an accusation? What was It exactly?? hmmm... idk, the four letters of the amazingly suspicious word...

Spoiler:

WOKE

and how, may I ask you, make this garner suspicion.

Tinfoil: I feel this could be distancing between manatee/inferno scumteam

[Eragon]

My vote on manatee is now also real

[Eragon]

im legit just chillin for the next hour or so

AMA

[Eragon]

thx LMS!

now its less of an eyesore

also gtg for now, night guys

[Eragon]

Inferno could be pocketing us...

I was thinking that but about him saying “your points are strong, have a TR” but I wasn’t sure if I was just pulling a stupid

Also he could be false associating with you, there are a few players on my homesite that when they flip scum they WK town members for the cred and bad associations.

So are you calling A50 mechanical? And is that the towny, scummy, or neither?? Just asking to see your pinion on A50


Agree on manatee

[Eragon]

Ok I don’t have time rn but I was skimming and I saw

We are at L-1 on inferno

[Eragon]

A lot of Eragon's posts contain only fluff. (35, 60, 62) I don't like it. VOTE: Eragon

FOS: Inferno. I don't like how much time he spends defending himself and how little scumhunting he does.

let me break some things down for you.
1)Fluff is normally NAI, unless thats almost all they are doing the whole game
2)Fluff is especially NAI when its explaining something previous, like my post about "Sorry my post is a pain to read..." was explaining the stuff.
3)cherrypicking the fluff over content and voting for that is slightly wolfy, but could be just ignorant play.

So are you calling A50 mechanical? And is that the towny, scummy, or neither?? Just asking to see your pinion on A50

Unclear yet. I can't determine his intentions based on just this because like I said it is NAI. When he posts more and we get an idea what his motivation is we'll know if it's genuine or not.

ok

I think BuJaber is town, but it's not because he reminded the Mod something was missing in the OP.

Why don't you tell us why you think BuJaber is town? Is it because he doesn't want to get townread for asking about the setup?

Basically. It's the way he's handled inferno in general. Just all out attacking the idea. Going after the guy who is calling him confirmed town. It looks like town who sees bad logic and is calling it out. That said, he's voting manatee over inferno so it's not like he's doing anything that would remove inferno from the game, making it a relatively safe town cred play for scum. That's why he's not my strongest town read. It's enough that I don't want to Lynch him today though. You voted Eragon for fluff posting. What do you think of his content posts? Why does the fluff outweigh those?

I like the idea behind the post, "It looks like town, who sees bad logic and calls it out, but could be towncred grab."
seems a little bit fencesitty but in a situation like that not much you can do.

See, this is where I know A50 is doing a misrep. Because I’m not trying to convince him that VT is interchangeable with likely. What I’m trying to convince him of is that VT means, by extension, likely town. I have not at one point said that likely town means VT. In fact, I have been arguing against it. To say otherwise is twisting my words around to fit the worst possible scenario. Classic straw man.

appealing to the other people about A50's push on him.
he thinks that he can't get a50 to stop pushing him, so he talks to the other people and gives his explanation about everything and is hoping to be understood and TR'd by other people.
I dont like his absolute focus on defending himself about the "likely town /=/ VT" stuff and his shade on A50 for mis-understanding

The content posts are okay. Sometimes Eragon repeats stuff others have said before him. I like how he called inferno "over-exxagerating" (54) and how he doesn't want to have people at L-1 this early (61).

like as in 'sarcastic' "like" or like as in "like"?

Oh yeah egg only played a scum game with me

Manatee I don't think you're very much perceived as a strong town read, so I'm questioning why minimal effort posts sound like a good idea coming from you

I'd like to see more out of poseidon but honestly I guess its really hard to say anything else than whats been said already

Unless you're Fromage that is, to which its a perfect time to spout shady as F criticisms while showing halfhearted support for most popular wagon
Okay maybe its not that suspicious, especially after he clarified but it still seems cherry picky, especially when one of those posts is a legitimate question from a newer member

I think Inferno is flailing even harder

Okay let me go back and count the votes

he counts the votes here, and says he did.
Wait for later for more on this.

As for my current thoughts on which person I find scummier, I think I'd be willing to go full in on manatee being scum if Inferno is scum

Although then again his non commitment then turnaround for his inferno vote feels weird regardless

I guess there's only a few scenarios:
1. Both are Scum: Either manatee wanted to soft bus but was called out on it and flip flopped or they were trying to offer inferno soft advice during the day as a scum partner
2. Inferno is Scum, Manatee is Town: It would have to be nerves or some kind of play-style that involves not explaining himself (manatee I mean). I personally detest this play-style. I'll have to check into Manatee's other games to see if he's just like this
3. Inferno Town, Manatee Scum: Why??????????? I don't see manatee's response as something natural, hesitance to vote while also saying behavior is scummy just doesn't add up to me, In this situation i feel like scum would just keep quiet and let town roll itself, not voting on a wagon that hasn't fully formed yet doesn't earn you any points so this situation is either motivated by stupid or is unlikely
4. Both are town: we all lose here. Maximum idiot has been reached. Inferno is just being bad and manatee is letting themselves burn right next to Inferno

I'd like to think and hope 1 is the most likely scenario, but I really need to look into Manatee to see if 2 is a possibility

However, I think Its more solid that Inferno is Scum, so thats where I'm at right now. I'll be back after I do some stuff and look into manatee

parts of this are towny, parts are scummy

Towny-
>looking at every angle
> thought through and just towny thoughts on it

Scummy-
>"I'd like to think and hope 1 is the most likely scenario,"
pings me because "I

want

them to both be scum" sounds like something a wolf says that lets them push someone but back off later.

@Fromage: No, Egg has had good posts since the initial exchange, and his posts read as natural and scumhunting. I’m leaning town for him.

GameNBurger is making me lol. Not only do I know that I am comfortably within my Town meta in terms of weird play, the fact that he’s 1) making associations this early and 2) lockscureading me for play that is not actually that bad and then using it to build a case around Manatee is terrible and not something I can see coming from town.

LOL.
here is another OMGUS
associations are VERY possible this early.
(in a game on my homesite, manatee and I were scum together, and manatee's RvS vote was "O crap, rolled scum, time to bus /vote Eragon")
and no one looked at it twice because it was RvS

who said he was "lock scum reading you"
and again over-exaggeration and defensiveness off-puts me and makes me still think you are scum.

tinfoil: "using it to build a case around manatee is terrible"
> WTF how did you already find both of us as scum, now I need to disprove your read by saying its terrible
*tinfoil only*

Oho
Burger has scumslipped in an attempt to get rid of me
He doesn’t know that the only scumgame I’ve ever played is one of the marathon games from last month. (A fact that both drives me crazy and I am very proud of because it gives me very good townmeta)
I have never been scumpartners with Manatee, not have I been partners with anyone else in the regular style of game.
VOTE: Burger

Join me, brothers. I have found the true scum!

lol. a tiny reason to OMGUS someone.
town wouldn't say the person scum slipped and then OMGUS them.
Town would correct them and just think it was a mis-understanding.
this post almost never comes from town.

Conflicted about burger. On the one hand it does seem like he's jumping to conclusions based on little evidence but that's slso a whole lot of effort just to build a case on inferno who is lynchbait frankly.

why is inferno lynchbait and not scum?

@Burger: So you think Inferno is scum? If so, what's keeping you from voting him?

>keep this in mind as well as what I said earlier about Burger counting the votes

Guys
Just realized A50 is hunting for the PRs.

@Egg: because GameNBurger is using a non-existent scumteam pairing from a previous game to try and make it look like Manatee and I have experience playing with each imo. We don’t. This is a case of Lynch All Liars.

shades A50, and again, scum reading someone for a mistake is -ev

I really wanted him to adress me more directly and see how he responds to the pressure before turning up the heat with an L-1

His response was super bad and has stayed constant to his behavior this game

HOWEVER

He is right that I screwed up reading the 1868 game, the mod used red text for replaced players in that game and inferno was replaced
Inferno was not scum but manatee was, I didn’t look deep into the game since manatee replaced out relatively easily

So I am very sorry about that and that’s my bad but it doesn’t contribute or take away anything from my reads on inferno since it was null anyways

Someone sell me on the case of manatee being a safer bet than inferno for lynch

I know out there is the possibility inferno being just a bad player flailing badly but I feel like this bad play is bad scumplay rather than bad town play

Manatee makes me uncomfortable with his posts and is definitely my number 2 but I could still chop it up to mindlessness and playstyle more than I could chop up Infernos action to bad town play


Anyways my vote stands with inferno unless I feel like suddenly manatee is a safer bet

VOTE: inferno

I’m out and about but I’ll take any questions, it just might take a while for me to respond

Fuck as I was reading this I saw that burger actually did announce L-1. make it bigger next time please, or not stuck inside a big post
>ignore the stuff I said earlier about counting votes, but still the voting question from a50

says he can chalk up manatee to play style but not Inferno to play style?

Woah stop
How am I being flaily, exactly?

that "woah stop" feels forced to me.

I think your reactions are entirely reactionary rather than logical jumps or any sort of serious thought

You don’t have coherent scumreads but OMGUS anyone that seems to seriously hold an accusation against you

I read this as panicky flailing rather than believe your bad enough (read: delusional) to seriously beleive all of the people you think are scum are still scum, so you read more reactionary rather than someone who has a coherent idea of what’s going on

That being said:

Your reaction to my mistake was justified, I think it’s reachy since I read the entire game as null to anything and dimssed it but I do understand your response there

I agree he has mostly been reactionary and OMGUS'ing people that vote/Sr him.
I dont really like the part about "bad enough to seriously believe everyone pushing you is scum"
because, while, of course, not everyone will be scum, but if Inferno truly is town, then there will definitely have been scum pushing him

Fromage, why does eragons fluff outweigh his content?

Careful. I didn't say Eragon's fluff outweighs his content. I said I don't like his fluff. I'm not even sure if I scumread him.

then why did you vote me if you dont SR me???

I think your reactions are entirely reactionary rather than logical jumps or any sort of serious thought

You don’t have coherent scumreads but OMGUS anyone that seems to seriously hold an accusation against you

I read this as panicky flailing rather than believe your bad enough (read: delusional) to seriously beleive all of the people you think are scum are still scum, so you read more reactionary rather than someone who has a coherent idea of what’s going on

That being said:

Your reaction to my mistake was justified, I think it’s reachy since I read the entire game as null to anything and dimssed it but I do understand your response there

So your entire read on me is an Attack on Playstyle then.
I see how it is.

I also have only seriously stated three people are scum and redacted one of those reads, so to call into question my reads like you just did is ridiculous.

AtE right here. and over-defensiveness/exaggeration YET AGAIN.

he didnt call into question your READS.
He called into question how you GOT your SR's, which was by OMGUS'ing anyone that was currently pushing you.

[Eragon]

I mean, seriously.. this is a 9-players setup. How many chances to nail a TPR can scum afford to miss?

force the Scum to claim a PR

(the PR they're immune to)

Iirc, you said yourself that discussing PRs is anti-town. I agree and think the same applies to discussing optimal scum tactics. Do you disagree?

This isn't just "optimal", it's a rule (unless they really really don't know how to play the game).

But the reason I said that is to alert the

TPRs

that's what's gonna happen, so if we get a PR claim they

do not CC

(and if they flip overnight we will know whom to lynch anyway). The TPR will now take that claim and avoid targeting that person becasie they know this is the scum that is IMMUNE to their action.

With some luck the TPR may catch the OTHER scum overnight and then they can claim on D2 leading to a town win with 2 successive lynches.

interesting thought process here,
the problem is, now that you threw this thought out there, scum will likely not do it to WIFOM the hell out of us.
I like the thought process and think its towny tho

Okay
And on the off chance we actually are running up the given TPR?
See, this looks like an attempt to throw WIFOM into any claim we get off the lynch. We get a PR claim and no CC, and then scum intentionally leaves the PR alive to throw confusion into town and perhaps grab a mislynch.

Also reads like an excuse to run up people to get claims.

this is just pure shade on A50, saying that he wants to be able to mis-lynch TPR
honestly it doesn't matter if TPR is lynched or not,(will explain) but lynching the TPR throws more sus on scum than a cit Lynch, so that is a 1 for 1 trade, which is actually helpful to town.
(explained) So we have 2 TI and 5 VT, so no TP's.
If a TPR claims, they will OBVIOUSLY claim their real role, and this means that scum uses the opposite immune goon to kill that TPR, and nothing will happen with night actions. So a TPR Lynch is decidedly worse than NK.

also I dont see how this is an excuse to get claims ???

and then scum intentionally leaves the PR alive to throw confusion into town

Let them do that and I'll be happier than a kitten sucking on her mama's nipple.

YEEE :3

[Eragon]

Tbh I’d like to get a vote off of Inferno just for safety purposes.


We have 12 days left, don’t want to risk someone hammering at all

[Eragon]

@Inferno - my statement is missing the words 'as town'. Inferno is lynchbait as town. He could be scum. But honestly as unhelpful as his posting has been (mainly defending himself) gun to my head I'd say he's town here. He feels attacked and spends all his time and effort defending himself. I'm not adept at reading someone like him because he's the type that makes it really difficult to townread. He distracts himself and distracts everyone and gets emotional.
Now granted I haven't seem his scum game but given that happens with him as town you have to really try and gauge his overall tone/motivations.

For example earlier I thought he was maybe buddying me. But considering he is attacking pretty much anyone who critiques or votes for him, there doesn't seem to be any interest in making friends. Unless he really thinks that if he convinces me he's town that I alone can change everyone's mind. That would be hilariously wrong as I'm rarely a town leader in any game, let alone in a playerbase that includes A50 and a few 5+ year veterans. So if it's not buddying then does that line of thinking and bad logic regarding my question to the mod make sense from scum pov? I don't really think so. Scum would be more self-conscious about using bad logic like that.

This is @Eragon not @Inferno if not clear. Sorry

Oh lol.

Ok I can understand your reasoning here. But technIcally the same can be said for most people.
Either lynchbait or scum

[Eragon]

like as in 'sarcastic' "like" or like as in "like"?

like without sarcasm. I think these are positive contributions to town.

associations are VERY possible this early.

Maybe these associations are possible but imho they aren't very useful. Basing your read of a player on another player who hasn't flipped yet is very speculative. (This might be different in Lylo)

this post almost never comes from town.

Are you saying Inferno is almost certainly scum? He exagerates and OMGUS all the time. (At least in this game. I want to take a look at his other games later).

then why did you vote me if you dont SR me???

Because I wanted you to stop fluffposting and I didn't scumread anyone else either.

1. Ok
2. I'm not saying they are very helpful, I'm saying that (Inferno I think) when he said that associations can't be used D1 that he was wrong and that associations can be found/used D1
3. I'm pretty confident in scum!inferno. And the post, from my point of view, never comes from town. I could be wrong of course, so I'm still open, but I don't think town!inferno is a possible thing.
4. Oh lol

[Eragon]

@A50 do you mind unvoting

I don’t like someone just sitting at L-1, becuase scum can quickhammer if they want(bad idea, but still)

You are also the one I trust most on the wagon, so I am comfortable leaving you with a vote
Manatee is scummy IME, I don’t know how to feel about burger, and Poseidon is legit null.

[Eragon]

I don’t want a quick hammer.

Ex: if your scum you could hammer yourself and rid us of 11 days of day-talk, which is town’s greatest weapon.
And you could hammer yourself.

You could get quick hammered by your partner except the fact that, if your scum, you partner is already on the wagon

[Eragon]

What do you mean by LAMIST? Inferno is also off the wagon, and if he is scum and wuickhamemrs, it’s bad becuase we lose ~11 days of discussion. I just don’t think it’s worth it to keep him at L-1

[Eragon]

I do think we should get a claim from Inferno even if he isnt at L-1

I can just imagine the scenario, he claims Tracker/lookout and the same-immune scum quick hammers to get rid of a PR

so L-2 is fine IME, and we still should be getting a claim

[Eragon]

so that means we have 3 at L-2.

[Eragon]

[Eragon]

I'm not so sure Eragon is town anymore. The quickhammer talk reads fake to me. Got my eye on you.

Manatee got significant pressure early on (first to L-2 I think) and still doesn't seem interested in posting more/ posting anything useful.
You realize his entire ISO is pretty much going back and forth on inferno?

I think its because on my homesite everything happens at L-2, thats when people claim, thats where the basis is, putting someone to L-1 is basically like lynching someone.

[Eragon]

{BuJaBer, Fromage, Almost50}
{Egg, poseidon}
{GameNBurger}
{Inferno, Manatee}

preliminary reads

[Eragon]

Mine is:

{Egg, Eragon}
{BuJaBer}
{Fromage}
{poseidon}
{Inferno, Manatee, GameNBurger}

So to explain my thought process I'm just gonna confirm: Fromage is null, poseidon is scum lean, Inferno/Manatee/Game is scum

Since scum is only 2, It's really easy to write up detailed thoughts or arguments on pairings even if you influde your null read on fromage

Theres only 10 pairings:

Inferno/fromage
Inferno/poseidon
Inferno/Manatee
Inferno/Game
Fromage/poseidon
Fromage/manatee
Fromage/Game
Poseidon/manatee
Poseidon/Game
Manatee/Game

Now while I know its a lot to ask you to write your thoughts on all of those pairings, I would appreciate if you did
However I also understand if youd rather play with your notes entirely to the belt, I'd disagree with the strategy but I'd understand that some just play that way
But seeing we have 11 days and we have 3 tied wagons I don't see a reason why to not ask

I think I might do a series of posts detailing all the possible inferno Scum teams, and if we don't have enough to discuss past that then do other possible pairings with all players

Wait burger = A50?


Why did burger explain A50’s reads?

[Eragon]

But the difference that 1 vote makes is huge.
A hammer is final.
The player dies. The day ends. The night begins. It has serious repercussions. It changes the town:scum ratio. It cannot be missed. It doesn't get ignored.

L-1 while serious, is in the end a vote that can be unvoted, even if it's the vote that puts a wagon right on the edge. In fact, in many cases L-1 triggers scum to unvote from the wagon for whatever reason that is applicable to the game they're in.

But yes inferno should claim

and yes I understand that, but its just a habit ingrained from homesite. It may stem from the fact we have 15-21p on average, and shorter days(only about 4-5 RL days) that makes it a bigger difference to stop someone from accidentally hammering because they aren't sure how many people are on wagon and stuff like that.

[Eragon]

Just read up, and I am refusing to claim this early in the day, mostly because I think I was run up as a cover for PR hunting. So I will leave scum in WIFOM on whether I am a PR or not with this post.

#154 is weak. If so was going to self hammer, I would have done it already, and no way my partner comes in to hammer and reveal himself.
Also don’t like 158, this again reads like PR hunting. There is this thing called pressuring to determine alignment, A50.
GameNBurger is still just throwing AoP my way, so I’m officially ignoring anything he says about me for now. He can come back with a real read. Also way too concerned with how his vote looks imo.
Scum is somewhere in {A50, Eragon, GameNBurger}. This is where my lynchpool is until further notice (I.e.: scum reveals itself somewhere else)

LOL.

you think you were run-up because of PR hunting???

Not so, if there was no other choice, you would self-hammer to stop people from getting the hammer-cred and denying discussion.
but as ive said, we have 11 days left, and that is time enough that someone might be able to get the wagon off.
Plus a D1 scum Lynch hurts scum immensely, making it 6 v 1 D2 and likely 2 TPR's.
He thinks he knows your alignment based upon the pressure, but he wants a claim.
How is your lynchpool only people that have pressured you?

[Eragon]

@Eragon

I don't think I did, I simply explained how i read them to clarify any potential confusion with how i got my list of potential pairings that a50 was suggesting. As it turns out, I did make a wrong reading of his reads, as he corrected me that poseidon was his completely null read.

Back to working on my larger post.

oh lol.

I thought You alt-slipped or smth because it looked like you were explaining something that A50 wrote as GameNBurger, but I probably just mis-interpreted it.

clarification please, do you mind meld fully with A50 here and are treating those reads as your own?

[Eragon]

First, I know you wouldn’t self hammer as town.
The question is, would you as scum?
I think the answer to that is no, because you can’t be 100% positive your being lynched, so you would rather defend yourself and get off the block, as you’ve been doing instead of scumhuntimg.
You entirely mis-read my post of you thought I was saying your town.

Second, people who pressure you are in your lynchpool.
People in your lynchpool are pressuring you?
I don’t think it works that way, especially as the were pressuring you before you got the reads.
Plus you never have explanations until this last post on your burger read, but where did mine come from?
You had my at town earlier, so what happened in between? I pushed you and manatee

[Eragon]

{Eragon, Me}
{Buj, A50}
{fromagw, egg}
{Inferno}

That’s town, town lean, null, scum

AND POSEIDON AND MANATEE NEED TO JOIN IN SUDDENLY AND CATCH UP OR REPLACE OUT
they’re screwing up my reads, I feel like I’m playing Yahtzee with a deck of 47 cards

>local village man puts himself as top town in reads list.
jokes aside, can you explain if Fromage is a Towny/scummy-not-sure-which null read or just I haven't seen anything AI from him.
also, if you had to say a second scum, who would it be?

These last few GameNBurger posts have me even more sus of him (if that’s even possible). The fact that his entire pairing list is pairing me with other players is bad for a few reasons: 1) By looking at everything as “Inferno’s scum, who’s his partner,” it allows him to look like he’s hunting for scum when in reality he’s just calling me scum and seeing who else he can pin me with. 2) By trying to pair me with every other player in the game, it’s obvious that he’s keeping his options open. 3) Lockscumming me means that he's just calling anything that anyone else is doing in interaction with me scummy to see what sticks. He’s not actually analyzing anyone on their own merit to see if they are scum or not. Also, where did that soft scumread on BuJ come from? It feels less me it was pulled out of a hat.

[snip]

1) he is confident in your scum flip, so he is looking for your partner. While I dont necessarily agree with that PoV, I can see where it comes from, and dont think its scummy.
2) no, because he explained each pairing in detail and gave yes/no reasons for each one, so if he all of a sudden says a pairing(for simple purposes lets say You/me) And calls me scum with you, hes gonna be instantly hounded because he called us one of the most unlikely pairings, so hes not really 'leaving his options open' and more 'thinking out loud' which is a perfectly viable strategy.
3) Lockscumming you /=/ calling everyone that interacts with you scum.

extras:
"(if thats even possible)"
>Pings me as scum to high hell as forced and just general wolfiness.


"where did that soft scumread on buJ come from?"
> Where did that fake shade of GameNburger come from?
Earlier in the game Inferno got annoyed and called multiple people out for lying(A50 about the meaning and Burger about the games), then comes out here with a blatant lie saying that Burger SR's buJ, which is not the case because Burger town reads BuJ, if you look at his read-list.

Can’t quote easy with phone, but I would think for Inferno, a claim would be beneficial to lessen the L-2, otherwise you just read as even more scum. Which is why I stand by my vote doubly.

May I ask why I’m a scum read? Or did I miss a point.

I dont think many people are really SR'ing you, its more just Null-but-really-annoyed-that-he's-only-posted-a-few-times type of thing.

I'd actually be very impressed if burger flips scum after all that.

Though I don't understand his approach and I think a lot of what he's doing is based on circumstantial evidence and could all be a waste of time.

There's no harm in thinking about possible associations a little to help you sort people, but making a whole entire list based on someome being scum that hasn't flipped yet seems like an exercise in futility.

Just highly unlikely that this comes from scum tbh.

I do agree here, it all banks on a Scum!inferno, and if Inferno doesn't flip scum, its all worthless, but also, like I said, "thinking out loud" to me is actually kinda towny, because it shows their progression(something that I like to see) and also shows that they are thinking through the game and helps us understand their thought process. (I use 'understand' loosely lol)

I'd actually be very impressed if burger flips scum after all that.

Though I don't understand his approach and I think a lot of what he's doing is based on circumstantial evidence and could all be a waste of time.

There's no harm in thinking about possible associations a little to help you sort people, but making a whole entire list based on someome being scum that hasn't flipped yet seems like an exercise in futility.

Just highly unlikely that this comes from scum tbh.

It’s more that I like to play with my thoughts entirely on the table and studied game theory in college so I’ve been trained at breaking problems into a list of all possible outcomes to start

As I made an offhand mention before I made the list I plan on doing this for all players combos possible, I simply started with inferno since I’m really convinced he’s scum and it’s just most efficient to start with him first. Give the game will probably not be in full swing until Sunday again (unlesss manatee is replaced super fast) I should have the time to organize it all,

As for why? Scum game can sometimes be made easy by sitting back and letting the town pigeonhole themselves and get stuck in a corner, the idea is that scum want to be left in the shadows of sweetness, where the town is calling other town on bad and start voting eachother while scum just try to not be stupid. This isn’t always how it goes but it can be very dangerous to not have a handle on everything that’s going on.

Since there’s 2 scum and 7 town it’s not too Herculean of a task to list off all the possible combinations and build cases for each one, while it isn’t actively making an argument for one shorthand goal (who to vote out today) I think it has its merits for organizing what may be (Atleast for me) an insurmountable amount of info into an accessible and comprehensive list. While initially tedious, tomorrow there will be two less players (and most likely one less scum) which will make the process far shorter on my end.

I will admit it’s rare that I can do this sort of process in a timely manner in day 1, as the small size of the overall player count and scum team is what makes this all manageable, but i figure since it’s all past info and speculation there’s no harm to town or benefit to scum from having open notes like that

number= paragraph
1) yeeee
2)ok cool
3)im not sure if making all the combinations help with this exactly, but I like the overall part.
4)no comment
5)agreed, notes be good. and helpful.

Fine
But the point is when someone flips town you know they definitely don't have any partners. When someone flips scum you know that you only need to study pairings that include them.

Doing this before any flips is just an insane amount of extra work that will likely cause you to read subtext that doesn't exist or something and then in the end once we get a flip or two most of the listings would become irrelevant.

What I usually do is if I see a post that someone makes about someone or a conversation between two people or some weird case on someone I talk about specific reasons why that action probably means that x and y are not partners or that x is scum if y flips scum or similar specifix pairings based on a specific set of actions.

Like take this game for example. Inferno and A50. Very very very unlikely that they are scum partners. So if one flips scum the other is cleared more or less. Any associative that you may perceive that isn't very strong that you are not sure about if it means they are partners or not isn't worth thinking about imo. Just focus on ones that are really obvious.

The other issue is that a lot of the time an associative read might indicate a one-way relationship but not necessarily the inverse. Meaning say you read a post by player x and you think "okay player x is scum if player y flips town" you might have solid reasoning to believe that but just because this might be true would not mean that "if player y flips scum player x is town". So the associative read only gives you info for one scenario but not another. So it might be unhelpful to mention it until player y actually flips. Because if y doeant die or if x dies first you will have nothing.

I hope that makes sense

same format as above

1) well yea, but it makes it easier to do it when you have time rather then after flips. so while its a lot of work, it also helps.
2) agreed
3)this is what I do mostly, but to each their own is what I say.
4) I agree with this too, and it works fairly well for me. but if Burger has a play style that is different, who am I to deny it?
5)agree, but spewing is different than associations.

[Eragon]

>That page-get tho


Inferno390
Almost50
Fromage
Eragon
GameNBurger
Egg
(ManateeDude) is being replaced.
Poseidon
BuJaber


So from my point of view, Im not scum and A50 never flips scum.
I would also be very surprised if Fromage and BuJaber flip scum.
GameNBurger has seemed somewhat scummy, but overall feels natural and his thought processes are towny, so im liking him too.

This means I have a town core of 5 people(myself included)
And the scum is in the other 4(Inferno, Egg, Manateedude, Poseidon)
And TBH egg&Poseidon are null reads that I haven’t seen much from(I could be wrong about Egg but I havent seen much) so that means IME the scumteam is Manatee/Inferno, which I can definitely see.
So as long as we Lynch in those four, preferably in the latter two, im happy

[Eragon]

Legit what happened from yesterday?

[Eragon]

If Eragon+A50 is the scumteam, I’m gonna laugh my head off.

If I flip scum I owe you a big dinner!

And I’ll owe him a thousand acre mansion on Mount Olympus :3

[Eragon]

Idk...


Honestly I'm good with ending here

A flip will do us good

[Eragon]

INFERNO WHEN YOU SEE THIS... CLAIM YOUR FULL ROLE, OR WE WILL LYNCH YOU BLIND

[Eragon]

@Eragon

fair enough, I vaguely recall someone saying that I'm a likely SR; but could have just been tired at the time. I do apologize for the inactivity. Trying to get back in the swing of things. For the time being, my only computer access is at work so most of my posting is from phone; and phones HATE the multi-quote function on this site.

Anyone got any reads I should look at away from Inferno?

BACKGROUND

While this account is new, my old profile was deactivated and I have played several games under the user KrazyEyeKilla7. Just been years for me, so it's good to be back in action.

Do you mind reading manatee? I know they replaced out, but it might be good.

Also one of (egg/burger) would be good to see an opinion on

[Eragon]

/vote Inferno

this is L-1

[Eragon]

me, BuJaber, A50 have all explicitly said it

and its obvious Burger wants the claim because your his strongest SR.

manatee is replaced, so no say
Poseidon is inactive and hasn't read
you dont have a say
Egg hasn't said anything
fromage hasn't said anything

so 4/7 tell you to claim

[Eragon]

maybe cause there is intent to Hammer and a blind Lynch is bad

[Eragon]

fits perfectly

[Eragon]

one problem.

manatee and his slot isnt here.
so they can't claim...

[Eragon]

/unvote

tbh.

im scared here.

I have hated the Inferno slot and think its Scummy AF, but the AtE and a couple posts on this page seem towny.

[Eragon]

i still have intent to vote, but not before i have a chance to re-look at inferno

[Eragon]

I was technically not voting anyone, but

VOTE: Manatee

Now it's correct

yeah, my bad, thanks. -LMS

[Eragon]

reading inferno now and I have hard time believing this angrily replaced out while L-1 as actual scum cause it'd be incredibly dickish thing to do

but I'm not townreading wh4t. for all the reasons someone could probably come up with for scumreading me, "catching" me in a "scumslip" feels disingenuous alongside the way she is pushing eragon.

Hmmm...

I don't think Wh4t ever was pushing me? l

[Eragon]

Also tinfoil: wh4t and Tora are SvS :3

[Eragon]

It's kinda interesting how tora come sin here with almost the exact same reads as Inferno???

[Eragon]

I'm getting real good vibes from wh4t rn, but I also like Inferno because the AtE, while disgusting if you look at it from game-play wise, seemed to me to come from a.super-pissed off town.

I will explain later(after I've finished my stuff in life XD)

[Eragon]

idk what happened but I completely lost my WIM for this game

[Eragon]

That’s fine

Hopefully I get my WIM back

Do me a favor and NK me :3

[Eragon]

VOTE: Toranaga

Hammer time :3

[Eragon]

aye aye aye

[Eragon]

dont resubmit that vote *pets*

[Eragon]

hold on tight, this nights gonna be a wild ride on these railroad tracks


Burger stay around for a bit would you?

[Eragon]

is tora seriously not here

>_.

[Eragon]

@tora pre-flip post?

[Eragon]

anything else to add?

[Eragon]

2Everyone stay around for a few, I want to make the most out of this twilight

[Eragon]

Fuck it I’m going full tinfoil hat I think they’re both scum

VOTE: Tor [/unvote]

this shouldn't count as a vote

also screw you for messing up my reaction test

[Eragon]

He didn’t buy it and it totally does

That and when you said to not resubmit it’s a bit obvious

Spoiler:

;_; my insidious plot is ruined

[Eragon]

I sometimes forget im in this game too now.

after both slots that I found scummy were replaced, I just stopped caring and lost WIM

[Eragon]

@tora pre-flip post?

yeah I was replying to wh4t there

I'm already at peace with getting hammered so that's whatever

nice timing for you to just appear here to do it when I'm trying to talk things out tho

I think wh4t's unvote was towny at any rate

do you still stand by this>

[Eragon]

I do that a lot.

I find it fun.

Ive had it happen where people just flat out claimed scum or emotionally claimed town and were obvious town lol

[Eragon]

UNVOTE: Toranaga

im actually gonna hold off on this a bit.

I dont

think

scum shades my "hammer" like that, but ill have to re-look

[Eragon]

Sorry for my absence. I've read through page 11.

I don't like how Eragon urged the hammer-happy Almost50 to unvote so he could place the L-1 vote. Unsure if it's scummy though. However I liked how he unvoted inferno after the AtE. Reconsidering your reads is good in my view. I'd also like to know why Eragon townreads me.

I think it was right of inferno not to claim when he was at l-2 but don't understand why he refused to hammer when he was at l-1 and intent was stated.

Egg's posts feel townie.

When did I place the L-1 vote after urging A50 to unvote?

[Eragon]

@Tor

I think that was a joke, becuase I said “___ is tastier Han ___”
And they responded
“Wel your neither do you must be trying to avoid votes”

I consider it NAI

@A50, I’ll look at it overall, but I saw you say something about being gone or shit
Ye, I completely lost this game, I get good about it the beginning, but ~page 10 I just lost all my WIM(which, for whoever asked it, basically stands for whim of the game and your activity and drive). I’m hoping to get back into it soon, but I’m just kinda bleh rn

[Eragon]

@A50, I’ll look at it overall, but I saw you say something about being gone or shit
Ye, I completely lost this game, I get good about it the beginning, but ~page 10 I just lost all my WIM(which, for whoever asked it, basically stands for whim of the game and your activity and drive). I’m hoping to get back into it soon, but I’m just kinda bleh rn

The remark about activity concerns Poseidon. Your activity is plausible. I had to check on one of your most recent scum games though to verify you do post that much as scum (you had over 190 posts in one day phase, and it ended with your lynch as the Mafia Roe Cop, if it helps you recognize what game I checked. You were a replacement that came in on D3, as far as I can remember).

hmmmmmmmmmm

this wasn't mine then, because I had a game where I replaced in D1 as the mafia role cop and got lynched D4 in endgame(Newbie 1882) and I replaced in (IDK what day) in newbie (1879??{Plotinus's} as the mafia goon and got lynched as tracker-confirmed scum}

[Eragon]

@A50, I’ll look at it overall, but I saw you say something about being gone or shit
Ye, I completely lost this game, I get good about it the beginning, but ~page 10 I just lost all my WIM(which, for whoever asked it, basically stands for whim of the game and your activity and drive). I’m hoping to get back into it soon, but I’m just kinda bleh rn

The remark about activity concerns Poseidon. Your activity is plausible. I had to check on one of your most recent scum games though to verify you do post that much as scum (you had over 190 posts in one day phase, and it ended with your lynch as the Mafia Roe Cop, if it helps you recognize what game I checked. You were a replacement that came in on D3, as far as I can remember).

hmmmmmmmmmm

this wasn't mine then, because I had a game where I replaced in D1 as the mafia role cop and got lynched D4 in endgame(Newbie 1882) and I replaced in (IDK what day) in newbie (1879??{Plotinus's} as the mafia goon and got lynched as tracker-confirmed scum}

SORRY SORRUY SORRY MEANT 1881 WE SHALT NOT SPEAK OF THIS MISTAKE

[Eragon]

Spoiler:

https://media.giphy.com/media/ruhPcuDNmS12M/giphy.gif

I heard DUCK.

DO YOU WANT ME TO CALL THE WORST?

[Eragon]

Spoiler:

[Eragon]

hey dont include me out of lurker filth tooooooo

[Eragon]

im good lynching Poseidon right now.

I dont think it gives us best info, association/buddy etc..-wise if he flips scum, but there is a good possibility of hitting scum

[Eragon]

VOTE: Poseidon

[Eragon]

Happy scum day Wh4t.


Also, I'll still answer any questions/do things you want.

[Eragon]

I just skimmed through Fromage and think there might be scum in there.

I’ll <hopefully> have time later today to acually explain it, bt I see lots of shade and very weak pushes, along with some cherry picking.
The only reason I had him as town was becuase I didn’t think that scum would be that reach him things(like my “fluff” but I am kinda new to the site so maybe Fromage thought I would be a mid-lynch, and once he realized I wasn’t a newbie he backed off)

[Eragon]

AHHHHHH WHY DI I MINDMELD GAME SO MUCH!!!!


<also, tor, I’m sorry if I’m being a shit and you’ve already done this, but can you post a scum bracket or read brackets just so it can help see your thoughts if you are lynched and flip town>

[Eragon]

Thank you Tor


Honestly I feel bad about lynching ou rn because i am pretty confident that you are town
Ima look stupid if you flip scum, but right now I would actually prefer someone else

[Eragon]

I honesty have no clue where my vote is at rn, but

VOTE: Fromage

I’m good with a wagon here.

I think Tor almost always flips town.

I’ve played with manatee a lot, and while they can play well while active, they can hard slack to.
I still didn’t/don’t like their few posts and 180 on inferno, but I’ve misread manatee multiple times before.
Also, while this was going on, there was another fame we were in on homesite and even then he was barely active as town.

So I’m willing to ignore a little bit of scum tone-read and give Tor a townlean

[Eragon]

It’s weird

I’m not sure if this triple vote is indicative that scum is on the wagon or that we as town finally figured shit out?

[Eragon]

agreed.

i also have liked Buj most of the game, but havent read recently

[Eragon]

TT-{Toranaga, Fromage}
T-{Burger, Wh4t}
Scum overall-{poseidon, Egg, buJaber, A50}
Scum leaning-{BuJaber, A50}

[Eragon]

Hey Eragon, Why do you seem to believe my claim?

why would i not?

we have 2 town PR's, so you have a 2/9 chance of being true just from randing.

but also other things, i dont like that you were slacking and seemingly cherry-picking a few things, and i for one never slack as PR, but i guess i can see it as a strategy to hide yourself.

i believe your claim until there is reason not to

[Eragon]

Hey Eragon, Why do you seem to believe my claim?

Because you're not his scum buddy!

VOTE: A50

[Eragon]

but why would i not beleive a TPR claim??

and why are you pushing me but not the other people that believed your claim?

and i also explained it more than just "Why would i not" so that intensifes the cherry-picking

[Eragon]

but why would i not beleive a TPR claim??

Because there's a 2/9 chance as well I randed scum. If you were scum would you claim VT or a TPR?

and why are you pushing me but not the other people that believed your claim?

Because they didn't vote me in the first place or they explicitly told me not to claim (wh4t).

again, there is more reasons than "why wouldnt i bleieve"

READ THE WHOLE FUCKING POST

and also did your forget about tor and poseidon on your wagon? that both voted you.
and the fact that poseidon was the last one on your wagon naked voting

[Eragon]

his post about voting you was pretty much

" i dont like inactivity votes but maybe. it might work but maybe not"

and i also talked about voting you, did i not?

i dont SR him for voting you because i agreed with the vote, i think the wagon was mostly pure, with at MAX one scum

[Eragon]

Eragon why do you townread Burger?

Well he’s certainly never scum with anyone but you

Those “association” lists with every single chance of inferno buddy never comes from scum knowing inferno is town, becuase then all that energy is wasted and nothing happens

His posts feel natural and just some of the things he’s done ping me as town

The reason why it’s possible he is scum with you is because he might’ve done the “association” stuff knowing that you will flip scum and it could help give him towncred and an easy push for a mis-lynch or 2 in the next few days

[Eragon]

I finished my reread and have a

completely

different view of the game now. I think scum are in Eragon/Fromage/Poseidon (in that order).

VOTE: Eragon

Eragon has been doing some townie stuff indeed, but taking a look at the bigger picture they seem to have been done for show. He often tried to feed the fire (especially on the Inferno/Manatee slots) but stayed uncommitted (by vote) for most of the time. If you take his posts separately you will probably TR him for each single one of them, but combined they didn't give the same impression. Also 377 for example is scummy enough on it's own.


I know this one's gonna be met by some strong opposition by many who have been TRing Eragon hard, and while I have played him before I do not have a strong meta on him either, so this is a read based purely on his play/posts in this thread.

If this flips scum then the cross voting with Fromage feels off. However, Poseidon being totally unavailable if late gives me the irks too.

P-edit: Oh, well. Tor caught me red handed. What can I do? *Shrug*

Ok, so I’ve been towny.
I have tried to feed the fire. Is his bad?
I have stayed uncommitted by vote. I have had a vote set ever since manatee early D1, when I turned it serious
377, ok, ye, but Idrc becuase is rather die in this game than keep moving on

[Eragon]

Eragon asked me to unvote Inferno (now Wh4t). This doesn't make me feel comfortable calling Wh4t town. Then again, maybe Inferno being stubborn about not claiming gave Eragon the impression he might be a VT? I wouldn't make that assumption myself if I was Eragon, but maybe he did and maybe Wh4t is town. *Shrug*

I'm concerned you're not strong townreading me by now A50. Also, the PR speculation here is weird in that I wouldn't expect a townie to think about my likelihood of being a PR and then to bring it up unprompted as a reason to shade Eragon, when I haven't claimed. You seem to be thinking from the POV of scum here.

I'm speculating about what might have gone through Eragon's mind not mine. This "speculation" is the reason I'm not locking you as scum when he does flip scum.

Put another way, I can't find a reason for Scum!Eragon to "lighten up" on Inferno before he got a claim out of him, so you should be next when he flips scum... UNLESS he thought Inferno was VT by play or meta...

What the fucking hell do you mean I didn’t want inferno to claim????

[Eragon]

INFERNO WHEN YOU SEE THIS... CLAIM YOUR FULL ROLE, OR WE WILL LYNCH YOU BLIND

Ye, I’m certainly fucking HUGELY AGAINST inferno claiming

Mhmm

[Eragon]

@GnB & @Poseidon: I need you two to cote Eragon or give reason not to.

This post is scummy enough by itself

[Eragon]

@GnB & @Poseidon: I need you two to cote Eragon or give reason not to.

This post is scummy enough by itself

It's not really scummy because he's clearly testing his associative reads.

Cough cough

[Eragon]

I'd still like to know why you townread Burger Eragon?

I’m pretty sure I explained it, or at least the basis of it at the end of last page Incase you missed it

Later on tonight I might go more in-depth if I feel like it then..

[Eragon]

Those “association” lists with every single chance of inferno buddy never comes from scum knowing inferno is town, becuase then all that energy is wasted and nothing happens

Oh I did miss it. I've seen the association thing done by scum on town before and there's the short-term gain of being townread D1. I guess I just didn't like his behaviour around the fake hammer and around Fromage's claim. I like how fromage said he does more work than is necessary like he trying hard to look town.

I've not seen any attempt for him to sort me or any real scum hunting aside from preflip associations.

i could see that, im not sure what skill level burger is, and i could see him acting LAMIST-y if he is pretty experienced.

i just dont really feel comfortable lynching burger today.

i could be very wrong, and its very possible he is scum, but i just dont think he is a good lynch today

[Eragon]

>sorry LMS

>i see it toranaga but that doesnt mean we should lynch it or disbeleive it

>agreed

>agreed

[Eragon]

A50 IMO

[Eragon]

TT-{Toranaga, Fromage}
T-{Burger, Wh4t}
Scum overall-{poseidon, Egg, buJaber, A50}
Scum leaning-{BuJaber, A50}

[Eragon]

you, me, and A50 are all at 2 votes

[Eragon]

and its kinda funny that 3/4 of my scum reads are on your wagon + mine

A50 and Egg on yours

BuJaber on mine.

[Eragon]

and tor isnt a good lynch

[Eragon]

id rather lynch scum and risk running up a third claim than lynch town

[Eragon]

Im 99% confident tor never flips scum

im never lynching a TPR claim D1, especially without CC's

[Eragon]

yes, but if he is a TPR lynching him D1 will screw us over

[Eragon]

and we have 9 hours left, so you cant expect him to get online and promise that, especially if you need to have time to change your vote.

you should be voting who you think is scum, not the lynch that wont give scum info but will flip town

[Eragon]

this isn't dying at night though. it's not gonna be resolved like that. you guys understand why, yes?

No

we

don't understand. Well, I don't anyway.

explain?

[Eragon]

I bolded the WE,

Wanting him to explain that

[Eragon]

Wh4t, think of it this way

Do you want to lynch A50 or Tor

Cuz those are the two viable wagons rn

[Eragon]

Votecount 1.12

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch.

Wh4t

(1): GameNBurger

Toranaga

(2): Almost50, Egg

GameNBurger

(1): Wh4t

Fromage

(2): Toranaga, Poseidon

Eragon

(2): BuJaber, Fromage

Almost50

(1): Eragon

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-08-14 08:00:00)

Based on this votecpunt ???

[Eragon]

Why do I scumread Eragon?

In 551 he scumreads me. Initially people ignore him and he doesn't vote me. The "hopefully" announced elaboration also doesn't materialise. Then he happily joins the pressure wagon but doesn't clarify whether he actually thinks I'm scum or if he just wants to get me talking. 571 After I claim his scumread of me is totally gone. That's weird.

The mod called Eragon out for some emotional posts. 689 These don't fit well together with his statements that he completely lost his "WIM". Why would an indifferent player get so worked up?

When I attacked Eragon for fluffposting, he stopped doing it. But after I explained I wasn't really scumreading him, he resumed.
He seems to care how others read him.

What I mentioned earlier:

@A50 do you mind unvoting

I don’t like someone just sitting at L-1, becuase scum can quickhammer if they want(bad idea, but still)

You are also the one I trust most on the wagon, so I am comfortable leaving you with a vote
Manatee is scummy IME, I don’t know how to feel about burger, and Poseidon is legit null.

A50 obliges and unvotes inferno.

Spoiler:

INFERNO WHEN YOU SEE THIS... CLAIM YOUR FULL ROLE, OR WE WILL LYNCH YOU BLIND

/vote Inferno

this is L-1

There weren't a lot of posts in between. In 61, 135 and 154 Eragon also mentioned that he doesn't want to have a quickhammer. Keep in mind that a50 threatened quickhammers all the time. Changing your mind on such a fundamental question might be indication of scum-motivation.


I also agree with A50 that there are some posts which look townie at first. But actually these posts might be written by scum in order to get towncred. 118, 377 and 415 fit in this pattern

So to summarize

-me scumreading you then drop when you claim TPR
-my WIM fluctuating
-again with fluffposting???
-the L-1 stuff
And then 118 is completely NAI, I don’t see how you can get anything out of that
377 is also NAI
and how is fakehammering scummy pray tell?

[Eragon]

Well there is no point in voting the hammer no?


And if you think that was talking to my imaginary scum partner, but it isnt necessarily burger, then who is it hat I’m referring to in that post?

[Eragon]

dont resubmit that vote *pets*

@Wh4t: This reads as "Partner, do not hammer the claimed VT". Plain and simple.

Then the very next post:

hold on tight

, this nights gonna be a wild ride on these railroad tracks

See the bolded? It's simply a request to WAIT. Noe it

could

be for Tor to not give up, or it could be for GnB to not hammer, or it could be for "someone else" to not attempt to hammer. If Eragon is the kind of player that I think he is, GnB and BuJaber were inserted in these two posts for WIFIM to establish false connections with the two. The reason I

totally

rule out BuJaber from being scum with Eragon is I know BuJ is not the kind of player to take directions from Eragon. In fact, BuJ is kind of stibborn and would probably have hammered Tor upon seeing Eragon's message (except he was already on the wagon, but still.. BuJ doesn't like to be instructed on how to play)

dont resubmit that vote is obviously talking directly to burger, because he was the one that voted, but messed up the vote, so i told him not to resubmit... i dont see how its even possible to mis-interpret that?

Hold on tight /=/ Wait.
the meaning of that entire post was to make it seem like we were going into the NIGHT. hence, THIS NIGHTS. Keyword: NIGHTS.
what about Buj but not me

[Eragon]

hmmm

if we end up no-lynching, that puts us at 6 v 2

so if we lynch scum

6 v 1

if we lynch town

5 v 2

NK

5 v 1

4 v 2


we can no-lynch again with the 4 v 2

and lynch with 5 v 1

5 v 0 or 4 v 1

and with the 4 v 2

becomes 3 v 2

and we are in LyLO

[Eragon]

so no lynching will put us in LyLo D4 if we mis-lynch D2

and if we lynch scum D2 we are in a good position

i still dont like the idea of no-lynching today, but id rather no lynch than lynch town

[Eragon]

so you would rather lynch town than no-lynch?

[Eragon]

and if thats truly the case, if you somehow actually think lynching town is better than lynching scum.

explain why i should vote someone im confident in flipping town instead of someone i think is scum

[Eragon]

Willingly no-lynching is scummy. You cannot be 100% sure of any of your townreads. Even lynching town gives us additional information. Whether we are in lylo on day 3 or day 4 is unimportant. The important question is how many mislynches we can afford.

also, your saying willingly no-lynching is scummy yes?

so if i no-lynch, then you think im scummy

what happens if i vote one of my few strongest townreads???

do you think im towny for willingly lynching a strong TR?

where is there ANY sense in that?

[Eragon]

what changed ?

[Eragon]

me rather no-lynching than lynching town?

[Eragon]

so you agree if i flip town you are scummy AF?

[Eragon]

all this jive-talking and strutting around on random accusations coming from A50...

and he still hasnt laid down a single vote on me???

[Eragon]

but you agree?

[Eragon]

i want to see you say it

when i flip town, you agree that you are scummy AF?

[Eragon]

all this jive-talking and strutting around on random accusations coming from A50...

and he still hasnt laid down a single vote on me???

Well, if you must know I'm waiting to hammer you regardless of your claim.

oh no im soooo scared

[Eragon]

ok cool

[Eragon]

Sorry if you're town Eragon. I think this is better than lynching Tor rn because he will become obvious later. It is on the wikipage that lynching town is better than a no lynch in terms of town win rates. We need the info and your flip will hard clear some people whilst condemning others.

VOTE: Eragon

do you think im town or scum

[Eragon]

and if you think im town, then why arent you voting A50, who has the same number of votes and just as viable of a wagon

[Eragon]

wh4t, asnwer the question.

on top of.

i am currently at L-2
and A50 is at L-3

if you vote A50 it switches those and we can lynch scum

[Eragon]

ok nvm you ninjad me on the response

but still answer the second part

[Eragon]

VOTE: Eragon

ok then

might as well

[Eragon]

UNVOTE: Eragon

hoping i timed this right lmao

[Eragon]

damnit lol

[Eragon]

i was trying to bait you into a quick hammer when i was at L-1, and unvote before you voted, but still have you vote, basically quickhammering and claiming scum yourself

[Eragon]

VOTE: Eragon

ok then

might as well

UNVOTE: Eragon

hoping i timed this right lmao

THIS is a SCUM CLAIM. A "last resort" kind of move, pretending not to care about one's own lynch. Scum 101 play.

Hint: When you're Town.. and you're frustrated.. you wait till you are @L-1 and HAMMER.

Hint:dont wait until hammer when your scum.

[Eragon]

Eragon what are you doing

trying to bait, but A50 was posting something different while i was baiting :/

[Eragon]

honestly, so am I

[Eragon]

Almost50
Fromage

Egg

Poseidon
BuJaber

lets re-order this


Lock town:{tor}
Strong town: {GameNBurger, Wh4t}
town: {Poseidon, Egg}
Only town b/c claim: {Fromage}
Scum:{buJaBer}
Top scum: {A50}

[Eragon]

i dont see how that relates?

[Eragon]

i dont see how that relates?

It means your gambit provides us with zilch information thats useful

well yea?

it didnt work...

[Eragon]

I'm so confused right now

Keep calm and vote Eragon

keep calm and get pocketed by A50

[Eragon]

and you keep saying that yet you havent even voted me once.

[Eragon]

put your money where your mouth is if you think im scum

[Eragon]

notice how he disappears when i tell him to vote me?

[Eragon]

if he hammers me, hes confirmed scum

if he votes me and its not hammer he is confirmed scum'


whatever shall he do?

[Eragon]

and thats the point


hes already said hes gonna quickhammer no matter what

[Eragon]

basically saying that he doesnt want to get my wagon started but if people agree he will hammer and blend in with the majority

[Eragon]

which is scum...

[Eragon]

and i get the sense that your using that to act LAMIST, and when i flip town thats what your gonna use to weasel yourself out of the lynch

[Eragon]

Why is it important if A50 votes you now or later?

Do you promise to self-hammer if A50 votes you?

because i want him to show that he actually will follow through with his high-talk about me being scum and lynching me no matter what

[Eragon]

Lmao it very much seems that way

But I fee that Fromage is TPR that’s been hard pocketed by A50

[Eragon]

Why is it important if A50 votes you now or later?

Do you promise to self-hammer if A50 votes you?

because i want him to show that he actually will follow through with his high-talk about me being scum and lynching me no matter what

You ignored my second question

Why would I answer that?

And why would I in the first place?

[Eragon]

This is A50

“I’m gonna quickhammer you either way”
“I take full responsibility of your lynch”

When I get lynched and responsibility is thrown on him
“Scum wouldn’t go that far to Mis-lynch one VT”

[Eragon]

I’d much rather lynch scum than get lynched to actually lynch scum

[Eragon]

Also, A50’s never even responded to my responses to his “case”

[Eragon]

“I directly am responsible for outing one PR”

Explain?

[Eragon]

If you actually read the thread you might see that I was the second vote on Fromage, and I voted after Tor, and before Poseidon and Wh4t, who were ALL also discussing voting Fromage.

So I don’t think I was DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for outing a PR
and I don’t see you talkin g about tor, Poseidon, or Wh4t that way?

So please get your facts right, please and thank you

[Eragon]

Okay, but assume the only alternatives are self-hammering or no-lynching. Would you self-vote in this scenario?

No

[Eragon]

Actually think about what your posting

Why would I self hammer over a no-lynch?

A townie is always better off alive than dead where they can’t do anything

[Eragon]

How is losing a townie better than not?

Still explain that please and thank you.

Especially when it’s me and self-hammering is gamethrowing

[Eragon]

A50 is 100% lurking right now

[Eragon]

That wasn’t my intention at all

[Eragon]

I still believe and hope we can lynch scum


Poseidon and Wh4t both move your votes to A50 and he is at L-1

[Eragon]

Then from fromage’s own mouth a “town” lynch is better than a no-lynch, so he will end up hammering or he is confirmed scum

[Eragon]

VOTE: A50

Lmao I almost forgot becuase I voted myself earlier I need to re-vote

[Eragon]

lets see

7 v 2

Mislynch is 5 v 2

Another mislynch is 3v 2


We only have 2 Mia-lynches available

If we no lynch

6 v 2

4 v 2

Another no-lynch

3 v 2

And so much more info going into LyLo

[Eragon]

It’s either 2 mislynches and 2 NKS

Or 1 mis-lynch and 3 NK’s

I find BK’s, especially later game give more info becuase th shows who/who aisnt alive and gives PR’s more time

[Eragon]

If we lynch scum today, we are almost in auto with 6 v 1

[Eragon]

At least one more night for the NK’s and PR’s to gain info/clears

Scum might even leave you alive if in fact you are town just for WIFOM

Town can be wrong on lynches so they aren’t exact

Night kills can show who is/isn’t scum
And Jacob an extra townie helps a lot

[Eragon]

Hmmm... power of the crowds ????

[Eragon]

If you want something done than do it yourself

[Eragon]

Wait I’m not wrong but it’s suspicious?

[Eragon]

I just think always having an extra townie is better than not having a town

[Eragon]

They won’t shoot you anyways becuase your scum

[Eragon]

I just think always having an extra townie is better than not having a town

Well, you're wrong and you need to get it right for when you do roll town.

Oh, but you already said I don’t roll green

So is this TMI?

Or contradiction?

Either way just keep confirming yoursef as scum kthx

[Eragon]

They won’t shoot you anyways becuase your scum

Prove it!

Vote yourself and let me hammer and if you flip town I will become confirmed scum.

And then of course your going to say that “scum wouldn’t do that to kill one town, becuase a 1:1 trade favors town”

And your not going to get lynched becuase you’ve pocketed Fromage so hard that he follows every word you say like a cute little lapdog

[Eragon]

And they might not be willing to go against Fromage, a claimed TPR and whoever your partner is

[Eragon]

Your still pushing me becuase if you backed off
1) it would be incredibly wolfy
2) it would conf. Wolf you
3) it would make you be the top wagon

[Eragon]

I am not 100% Fromage is TPR

I see no reason to disbelieve the claim and I’m not lynching a claimed PR without CC’s

There is a shred in my doubt if you read my read lists, I had him as “only town becuase of his claim” and I do believe he is PR, but I am not 100% confident.

And you are putting words in my mouth and misinterpreting me, which is -ev

[Eragon]

Your still pushing me becuase if you backed off
1) it would be incredibly wolfy
2) it would conf. Wolf you
3) it would make you be the top wagon

Yeah, but why did I pick you as my target in the first place? And why did I go so hard that I can't backtrack now?

And ftr, who do you think is my partner?? Amuse me.

Maybe you thought you had me as a PR and were trying to get me to claim, or rather, lack of claim

Hence “I DONT CARE WHAT YOU CLAIM IM LYNCHING YOU NO MATTER WHAT”

And your partner is Fromage, if the TPR claim is fake, BuJaber, or egg

[Eragon]

I don’t think Poseidon is scum becuase he could’ve voted me to L-1 and you woulda wuickhammered

Egg hasn’t been on

BuJaber is voting me

[Eragon]

???

[Eragon]

I still don’t get why you think +1 towny is worse than -1 towny

[Eragon]

I guess I could see that

I just see no benefit in PURPOSLY voting town just becuase you don’t want to no-lynch

[Eragon]

How does hammer gambitting make more sense if I’m scum?

And can you not see the open wolfing A50 is pretty much doing?

[Eragon]

I guess I could see that

I just see no benefit in PURPOSLY voting town just becuase you don’t want to no-lynch

Because I’m not voting a TOWNY town

I’d be voting a SCUMMY town

There’s info to be gained from being able to be sure of somebody’s alignment

Then vote A50 and when he flips scum you can confirm me

[Eragon]

A50’s sole deathtunnel is incredibly wolfy, for the past few pages he has done nothing except tell people to vote me and call me scum, ALL WHILE NOT VOTING ME HIMSELF.

What is the point of wanting “the hammer”??? Why is the hamme rdiffernet than any other vote???

[Eragon]

Well games-wise my last 6 completes games have all been scum, 2 here and 4 on homesite


I have about 13 completed games on my homesite and 2 canned games

[Eragon]

My god I’m gonna feel like a chump if Eragon really is scum

But my Eragon town read has been taking a nosedive the later this day goes on

I feel like you and Tor might be scum together is what makes that strange interaction feel more sense

You’re not a newb right? What’s your experience with the game outside of this site?

You’ll feel worse when you are the vote that lynches town instead of scum

[Eragon]

Have you legit not readA50’s posts the last 5 pages?

[Eragon]

Let me plug my phone in then I’ll go quote them

[Eragon]

most people are around, so it's a matter of who we are fine with lynching and I think most of us is fine with lynching bujaber

I'm not. I want to lynch Eragon today. You are me compromise lynch but I'm not going to move my vote to Eragon until I see real consensus.

OK THIS IS LEGIT A SCUMCLAIM

[Eragon]

all this jive-talking and strutting around on random accusations coming from A50...

and he still hasnt laid down a single vote on me???

all this jive-talking and strutting around on random accusations coming from A50...

and he still hasnt laid down a single vote on me???

Well, if you must know I'm waiting to hammer you regardless of your claim.

These