Forgotten Hourglass [Game Over]

[Spiffeh]

The fact that everyone just seems to go along with these memes is making me think im the one in the wrong for even daring to go "No fun allowed" so...

no don't worry it's annoying me too

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nosferatu and Sakura are probably not scum together

Nos + Mariar is my guess right now, but one might be replaced with Kokichi

But Nos voted mylo and early. So that would be a hardbus. Do you really think scum hardbusses their roleblocker D1 in a game with probably only 3 scum in it?

why do you think there's only 3 scum in a 17p?

There could be 4 I suppose but every FG Alice game had 3 iirc.

[Ankamius]

I'll just hard lurk until day 3 I think

[Nancy Drew 39]

maaaybe spiff?

No, I really think he’s town now.

[Purrcocet]

VOTE: Matt

Do you not believe what he's putting out? Cause I'd be willing to back there if so

VOTE: Matt

You say as you vote him...

I've not found any of Matt's posts particularly compelling.

part of the reason i think kokichi might be scum is because of his indignation at me being lynched. the confidence in which he knows im going to flip town seems unrealistic, and it looks like he's trying to get towncred/using my townflip to justify his tunnel on wisdom. i also feel like his iso doesn't have much substance to it. i like most of his reads, but it feels like he gets them without trying to scumhunt/dialogue with people, and it makes me think the reads might be fake.

that said, i can still be convinced kokichi is town. he's not my top choice right now.

This in particular doesn't seem that great since he's hedging and doing the same thing we slammed Mylo for. I'm also curious about his Muffin and Moment scumreads, particularly because I think Moment is really town this game.

did you like mylo's content? i thought it was relatively bland and safe.

i'm not super opposed to this wagon but i don't think it's really going to garner that much information, regardless of the flip. i'll hammer on it before the deadline if we need.

This is didn't really like since I feel like he could've figured that out for himself if he just continued to read my posts, and this was a conclusion Moment and I had already come to (Moment was the one who actually pushed me to reevaluate my Mylo read, so I am giving him a decent amount of credit here). And Matt never did end up voting Mylo. While I can see town just being really unsure, it gives me the impression he could have been scum hoping for the Mylo wagon to stall out near day's end and people wagoning something else.

Anyhow, the main pause I have is that most of his posting that I have an issue with comes in long catch-up style posting. But I still didn't really like this:

oof, brian might be scum.

i'm not interested in arguing semantics though, since you might be town.

i take it all back. brian's probably town.

Which seems like he was trying to give off the impression of a generic read, and it didn't actually feel that way for me.

If this greens where do you go if Maria isn't an option? What do you think about TBG's slot and everything surrounding it

[Nancy Drew 39]

Is there a reason people so many people are taking pride in being unhelpful?

Because it's not really funny anymore

+1

[projectmatt]

jesus

[Brian Skies]

If this greens where do you go if Maria isn't an option? What do you think about TBG's slot and everything surrounding it

Why would Maria not be an option? I don't really care about answering a question about a hypothetical flip.

I think Muffin's crusade against TBG is fine. I didn't really like TBG's initial posting about complaining about other people complaining about his fake post restriction. His 2151 seemed fine to me. Was there anything specific about the TBG wagon you wanted me to address?

[projectmatt]

This in particular doesn't seem that great since he's hedging and doing the same thing we slammed Mylo for. I'm also curious about his Muffin and Moment scumreads,
particularly because I think Moment is really town this game.

i elaborated on what makes me scumread moment in my response to purr. let me quote it for you. (also i feel like this post got missed and i want to quote it again.)

it seems like you just try to "feel" your way into all of your scumreads
you don't articulate any of the points you make that you have conviction on. all of them are very vague and you make everything seem like it's something but you never explain what that something is ever

i do try to feel my way into scumreads, and why is that a bad thing? the thing about reading games based on tone is that you subconsciously pick up on stuff that you may not be able to put into words. i think it's completely valid to assert that a post feels "off", and i don't see the need to make up some fake logic about why i found it bad as opposed to being honest and saying that i think his tone is scummy.

no......no it's not.
this is what i meant by posturing
it reads "nos lurking would be scummy if the entire playerlist wasn't also lurking" if you don't twist it

this is a super generous interpretation of what sakura said.

for clarity, the wording of the post was:

"I could argue that nos being a non presence means nos scum... but that's literally everyone this game."

how is that not a statement of neutrality? at best, it's filler post with no actual reads or attempts to game-solve. at worst, it's a filler post that sakura could use to justify voting nos in the future.

""performative towntelling"? if you definitely didn't like it you could have told us exactly what you meant but i think you were aware this was just a generic wagon join

performative towntelling is pretty descriptive, no? it looked like an unnecessary way to highlight the fact that she was adding pressure to the wagon because she was insecure about voting it without saying anything. she's pointing out that she's doing a town thing, and that's why it looks forced and performative.

so from this and the rest of your iso
sakura is scum for naked votes and "lazy" play is the foundation of your scumread

she's your top scumread but muffin who has posted nothing (of real content) at this point and voteparked in rvs is somehow lower. i will pretend that makes sense.
and you barely address muffin besides mentioning him
the muffin sr is never really pushed it's just kind of brushed on a little seemingly just for the sake of it

i mentioned in the post you quoted that i scumread sakura for "

stuff like this"

, implying her entire iso has been filled with underdeveloped reads, unnatural wagon jumps, and scum-motivated posts (like the statement of neutrality one.) so, it's a pretty big misrep to say that my scumread on sakura is based on "naked votes and 'lazy' play". you could make any scumread sound uninformed or poorly put together if you break it down into a few buzzwords.

in my post, i said that i maybe wanted to lynch muffin because his posts didn't ping me nearly as badly as sakura or moment. i don't see why someone not outing much content or parking their vote is scummier than the stuff i pointed out about sakura/moment, or why it somehow makes me scummy for not pushing on him more.

also, this was about 4 days before the deadline. do you want me to have substantive interaction with every player in the game? that's ridiculous. especially since i said shortly before the deadline that i was second-guessing my reads and wanted to re-evaluate them.

did you pick this post at random
you could have picked a few more to make it look better

this isn't even a point against me. you're assuming that i picked a post at random because you already think im mafia. i didn't. i thought it was a bad post that gave the impression of contributing content while it was actually just arguing semantics that didn't matter.

again. this is what i mean. what DO you mean? or are we just supposed to get the impression that you mean something

see my first response about reading people based on tone.

when i asked "do people think moment is town?", that was my way of asking "is anyone else pinged by these posts? am i alone?". why is that a bad thing?

so this is what you mean, but it's still somehow one of the most general statements ever

it's really not that general at all. i wouldn't use the reasoning that i used to scumread moment for any other player in this table, because it doesn't apply to any other player in this table. there's a very specific kind of scum-player that tries overwhelmingly hard to get people to townread them, and it can end up blowing up in their faces because something about their tone isn't right. i was assuming this is what was happening with moment.

[insert progression here]

this is fair. i'm still confused about my reads, but i'm trying.

This is didn't really like since I feel like he could've figured that out for himself if he just continued to read my posts, and this was a conclusion Moment and I had already come to (Moment was the one who actually pushed me to reevaluate my Mylo read, so I am giving him a decent amount of credit here). And Matt never did end up voting Mylo. While I can see town just being really unsure, it gives me the impression he could have been scum hoping for the Mylo wagon to stall out near day's end and people wagoning something else.

this isn't something i can really refute because it's just speculation. that said, i think it's pretty valid to think that the mylo lynch was kind of a lazy wagon, and at the time it didn't seem like a move that would help progress the game at all. also, if i was trying to remove the energy from the mylo wagon, i would have been trying a lot harder to wagon on someone else. instead, i sat in a confused state while trying to figure out my own reads.

Anyhow, the main pause I have is that most of his posting that I have an issue with comes in long catch-up style posting. But I still didn't really like this:

oof, brian might be scum.

i'm not interested in arguing semantics though, since you might be town.

i take it all back. brian's probably town.

Which seems like he was trying to give off the impression of a generic read, and it didn't actually feel that way for me.

i'd be happy to walk you through my thought process on why i scumread you and then changed my mind, if that's something you want.

hey projectmatt you mentioned scum reading Sakura early on and even today justified that read in defense of Purr's accusations, but I don't see her in your list of scum reads rn

What happened?

it changed. i doubt sakura is scum anymore.

[Spiffeh]

What changed your mind?

[projectmatt]

anyway for clarity, i scumread moment largely for tone issues (i articulated it in the post above.)

i scumread muffin because his reads feel weirdly non-commital and stuff like this pings the hell out of me:

my evil conscience is like "STOP OVERTHINKING SHIT, IT'S NANCY TBG" but my good conscience doesn't fully trust my evil conscience and is like "but nancy could just be bad. maybe maria tbg?" and both consciences are too busy doing other things to really give a shit about who's right tbh

i dont get the impression from his posts that he's trying to gamesolve or sincerely find the mafia, but it does look to me like he's posturing between a bunch of different scumreads and relying on his erratic playstyle to justify not articulating himself.

[Purrcocet]

If this greens where do you go if Maria isn't an option? What do you think about TBG's slot and everything surrounding it

Why would Maria not be an option?

Cause she towntold?

I think Muffin's crusade against TBG is fine. I didn't really like TBG's initial posting about complaining about other people complaining about his fake post restriction. His 2151 seemed fine to me. Was there anything specific about the TBG wagon you wanted me to address?

Does it indicate anything to you about the people pushing it or the matt wagon?

Why is Muffin fine? What do you townread him for exactly? Last game he stomped and pretty sure he had the scum team
But this game He's being really weird and I'm pretty sure all of his Srs are town

[projectmatt]

What changed your mind?

i came to the realization that a lot of the reasons i scumread sakura seem to boil down to playstyle/site meta that im not familiar with, as opposed to legitimate scumtells. her play improved considerably after my original catch-up post. their tone reads a lot more sincere and i think they're approaching the game in a way that scum almost definitely wouldn't. stuff like this:

Actually I have a gut feeling that purrcocet is scum, but i dont care enough right now.

or

Tbh, i do think muffin's scum, but i feel kinda nervous/anxious about lynching him coz i'd feel bad if he's actually town here and im wrong.

doesn't look scum-motivated to me at all. it is fence-sitting like i pointed out previously, but the difference is that sakura is being brutally honest about their indifference/apathy toward getting their reads lynched, and that makes a lot more sense coming from a town perspective than a scum one.

[projectmatt]

honestly i still think im just killing time until i get mislynched because y'all are too afraid to lynch within people that you already know and i also dont think a lot of you are genuinely interested in reading me

i am salty, though

vote: muffin

[Purrcocet]

Brian townreading muffin makes this weirder for me
I'd probably be willing to vote muffin if Nancy Wisdom Moment join the fun

[Ankamius]

I'd rather lynch muffin than Matt but I am pretty sure he would flip town too

[projectmatt]

maybe one day when i manage to perfectly adhere to mafiascum.net site meta and become a household personality i'll stop getting mislynched in games

[Brian Skies]

i elaborated on what makes me scumread moment in my response to purr. let me quote it for you. (also i feel like this post got missed and i want to quote it again.)

see my first response about reading people based on tone.

when i asked "do people think moment is town?", that was my way of asking "is anyone else pinged by these posts? am i alone?". why is that a bad thing?

I read it, I just didn't care about it.

I thought for sure you made a post casing Moment today, but maybe I'm wrong and attributed a post made by someone else to you? Anyhow, what I just quoted (which is the only relevant point about Moment from the post you just quoted for me), doesn't actually address why you thought Moment was scummy, so...?

i'd be happy to walk you through my thought process on why i scumread you and then changed my mind, if that's something you want.

To be honest, I don't think it would change my mind (at least not on that).

[Ankamius]

I honestly don't even get the scumreads on matt

[projectmatt]

brian, a bunch of that post is an exact explanation/defense of why i scumread moment (again, largely based on tone). in all fairness, i have not made a case on them.

[projectmatt]

I honestly don't even get the scumreads on matt

i honestly can't tell if im just salty or if people just generally gravitate toward lynching easy targets that they don't have to think critically about or challenge because they're not in the social bubble of the game

[Ankamius]

Like...

The way he's going about getting reads looks town
The reaction to the wagon looks town

???

[Brian Skies]

Cause she towntold?

Where did this happen?

Does it indicate anything to you about the people pushing it or the matt wagon?

Why is Muffin fine? What do you townread him for exactly? Last game he stomped and pretty sure he had the scum team
But this game He's being really weird and I'm pretty sure all of his Srs are town

Not really.

I said his push on TBG seems fine. It's a

seekrit

. So what? This is a different game and players are intentionally obfuscating their own alignments for some reason.
How would you know if all his Srs are town?

[projectmatt]

a bunch of you guys are even forecasting that im about to flip town and you're still voting me or not even attempting to find a counter-wagon.

like, this is learned helplessness. you're coasting on it until the deadline comes. then you can say "haha oops i guess we gotta lynch matt now there's no time"

it's just annoying

[projectmatt]

i wish this was live mafia so i could suicide out of the game in dramatic fashion and then get banned