OPEN 732 : PICK YOUR POWER X/Y (GAME OVER)
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Nah my post was just throwaway rvs filler
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Not starting wagons, calling for lynches.In post 120, BuJaber wrote:Why is starting wagons a bad thing, stargazer ? Or whoever asked- Skygazer
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This early?In post 140, OkaPoka wrote:i call for lynches all the time as town- Skygazer
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1) Looking at ruru's post's with the context of her position in the lottery, yesIn post 202, Enigma wrote:1. She townreads you immediately after your introduction post
2. Doesn't show curiosity when voting me, despite being curious when posting earlier votes
3. Ignores and is not surprised by your whole distracting PGO debacle
2) I've made three votes including you, one of them in rvs with meaningless filler. This doesn't make sense
3) I said I townread her for it, not ignoring. Why would I get bogged down over-analyzing a townread when I could bescumhunting?
Why are you still voting for BuJaber and not myself?- Skygazer
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kidding kidding
BuJaber out of those (now 5) people in your list in 311 do you see any other scum motivations from any of them? Not really buying anybody listed as scum other than maybe possibly vulcan but that's not because he unvoted you- Skygazer
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341: Yes, it was a wagon, and your vote was the fourth one in it
I don't see how someone stating that two people with the same number can't be in the same scum team (which is false btw) automagically means someone with the same number as you is likely to be scum. That's not game theory, it's a bad leap of logic and you're not even backing it up with actual odds/statistics. And now you're calling me stubborn and telling me to enlighten myself by linking to a broad wikipedia post on game theory? Like what are you even trying to accomplish? Do you think I'm going to read that and somehow throw all logic out the window?- Skygazer
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Here's the thing: you keep saying it's probability based and rational and you like where your vote is (yet it's somehow semi-rvs) but:In post 346, Enigma wrote:Wagons in RVS mean nothing.
Well, maybe if you did maybe try to look a bit into it, you might understand where I'm coming from and my logic, rather than stubbornly dismissing everything I say and repeating the same arguments we've already touched on. Yes stubborn.
Let's not waste our time further.
1) You can't just say something is more likely and not back it up. That's what you're doing. I know what game theory is and you haven't done any mathematical models to actually back up your claims. I would not be surprised in the slightest if there's no significant changes in probability based on two players having the same numbers.
2) You're not even doing anything with this vote that you supposedly still like. You're not pressuring BuJaber at all and instead throwing shade at other people.
Finally you're trying to dismiss my arguments rather than respond to them by calling me stubborn and saying I keep dismissing your points. I touched on (1) before and you never addressed it. I've read your other points and they aren't backed by logic at all, you just keep saying "lol game theory." And a wagon on page two is still a wagon and if you're stating that it was "semi-rvs" then it wasn't even entirely rvs anyways. So your point about it not mattering doesn't stand.- Skygazer
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In post 387, OkaPoka wrote:im going to actually have to agree here with the folks on the enigma wagon that enigma's refusal to take his semi-rvs vote off or make a case against bujaber is fishy. furthermore enigma's admission to not really scumhunting is throwing me for a loop here, we are 16 pages in soo
lmaoIn post 392, OkaPoka wrote:enigma is town because how the wagon formed is scummy as hell- Skygazer
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nice AtEIn post 471, Enigma wrote:Skygazer - I feel scum would not be this stubborn and push so hard on my wagon (a mislynch btw)
i've seen you're still not responding to my points
BuJaber is a townlean now btw- Skygazer
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@Enigma
In post 507, Enigma wrote:Appreciate if you could remind me which ones I haven't touched on? Points that I've already addressed (but we continue to fundamentally disagree on) do count as responded to from my perspective as I have nothing new to add.In post 385, Skygazer wrote:1) You can't just say something is more likely and not back it up. That's what you're doing. I know what game theory is and you haven't done any mathematical models to actually back up your claims. I would not be surprised in the slightest if there's no significant changes in probability based on two players having the same numbers.
2) You're not even doing anything with this vote that you supposedly still like. You're not pressuring BuJaber at all and instead throwing shade at other people.
Finally you're trying to dismiss my arguments rather than respond to them by calling me stubborn and saying I keep dismissing your points. I touched on (1) before and you never addressed it. I've read your other points and they aren't backed by logic at all, you just keep saying "lol game theory." And a wagon on page two is still a wagon and if you're stating that it was "semi-rvs" then it wasn't even entirely rvs anyways. So your point about it not mattering doesn't stand.- Skygazer
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It feels like he's throwing shade for the question tbh which I don't like but I'm also immensely happy that we got to go this deep with questions about questionsIn post 595, Enigma wrote:Sky, what's the point of asking about the point of asking about the point of ruru's question?- Skygazer
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617 is a really townie train of thought so town points to skitter.
But he didn't even present the paper until after being pressed for it and he doesn't fully understand it and hasn't even brought up the paper until now iirc so I'm inclined to believe that Enigma just wanted on that wagon so he made up shaky statistics and then tried to back it up after the fact when pressed. If he had that paper ahead of time why would he wait until now to present it after all of this pressing on him? Why not just show it early to get rid of the suspicions early? Instead he just kept saying game theory over and over.- Skygazer
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I mean you can still look at her reads and votes and stuff like that and sort her that way. She's not completely obfuscating her play.In post 676, OkaPoka wrote:this is going to be slightly frustrating trying to read her and invis
hopefully we have some roles that can clear that up- Skygazer
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Well I thought that jump came out of nowhere but it's very consistent w your thought processes through your iso so townpoints for that.
I do think counterwagons have been attempted though, you can see Oka, invisibilty, vulcan and brass/cardi and even ceejay catching multiple votes since the enigma wagon started. I do think there's bound to be scum in that group of people but there's also a ton of potential lynchbait in that pile so I think it's very likely that some of those were attempted counterwagons that never gained traction assuming Enigma is scum.- Skygazer
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Why does this feel wrong to meIn post 706, OkaPoka wrote:because im not giving a viable reason to scumread enigma while pushing enigma at the same time so it looks like i have a viable reason to claim towncred if enigma flips town but if he flips scum i can be like oh look i knew it.- Skygazer
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I only have one completed game where I've started so far and to be fair there were like three counterwagons to the scum wagon before the scum wagon ended up going through. That's only a sample size of one though, and I imagine that particularly uncharismatic scum could be bad at getting counterwagons going. It's also possible that experienced scum could be averse to starting counterwagons to avoid association tells down the road. Basically I don't think the situation is that cut and dry but I guess I'll take it into consideration.- Skygazer
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Not feeling the invisibility wagon. Not really seeing anything town there, but that's because I'm not seeing anything there at all atm.
This Enigma wagon has died a slow and painful death, so I'm going with a yolo-vote here.
VOTE: orfhz
Early someone said something about orfhz playing rather safe/not wanting to get their hands dirty and I have to agree with that. I don't really see them doing much to try and advance the game state, just asking soft questions without really following up. They've kept their vote parked on Enigma without ever dropping in to comment on what's going on regarding Enigma or reflect on their read on Enigma that much. They're throwing out a lot of townreads without much reasoning behind them and when combined with their lack of scumhunting it looks like they're just kind of floating by through this game.- Skygazer
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UNVOTE:
After rereading a few times I've:
1) realized that orfhz has already addressed my points
2) realized on a second reread that I'm pretty satisfied with their answers regarding what I've said
3) realized that it's entirely likely that they are trying to gamesolve and just don't have many strong reads at this point
4) realized that I shouldn't make a vote at 4am after skimming an iso
They still come across playing it safe/kinda floaty but I don't want my vote there at this point until I see more. So, orfhz, could you post a reads list?- Skygazer
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