Heroes Wanted! (Game Over)


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Post Post #7675 (ISO) » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:18 pm

Post by stungun0404 »

In post 7672, Toogeloo wrote:And bear in mind, I was never once on the Titus lynch, not ever, so don't say I switched off of the Titus lynch, because that is wrong.
i corrected myself in the next post...
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Post Post #7676 (ISO) » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:18 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 7674, stungun0404 wrote:same for you toog?
Answered in my last set of posts.
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Post Post #7677 (ISO) » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:18 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

y would i ruin ur day?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #7678 (ISO) » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:21 pm

Post by the worst »

In post 7674, stungun0404 wrote:VOTE: The worst

i want duckling to be the counterwagon here, because odds are decently high he is scum, especially if toog is not

@tw, what tempted you to join the creature wagon last day phase?

same for you toog?
I engaged w creature about this directly fam there was just not town!Creature in his ISO til he returned.
who's scum? i haven't read up yet but like, it's me
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Post Post #7679 (ISO) » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:22 pm

Post by the worst »

In post 7677, Nero Cain wrote:y would i ruin ur day?
I'm starting a band called Drakura Sixx to help me remember to actually vote tonight. It's gonna be great but Nero Cain is a good rock star name too so I'm a little worried you're gonna kick off a solo act and steal our spotlight
who's scum? i haven't read up yet but like, it's me
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Post Post #7680 (ISO) » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:37 pm

Post by Frozen Angel »

@toogelo have you even read my posts now that you're accusing me that I'm scum?
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Post Post #7681 (ISO) » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:41 pm

Post by Frozen Angel »

like what is even your accusation? Fa might still be scum so she is?!

You said I didn't take any stances in last day phase - that is a blatant lie. Also you are repeatedly claiming you didn't read things

what are you scum reading me for then if you didn't read things I posted?
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Post Post #7682 (ISO) » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:46 pm

Post by Sakura Hana »

I'm dissapointed that the people that have posted didnt answer my question, I even bolded and everything so it was harder to miss.
Also i think this is town Nero so far.
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Post Post #7683 (ISO) » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:49 pm

Post by Frozen Angel »

I was reading backward. I'm fine with either as leader.
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Post Post #7684 (ISO) » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:49 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 7682, Sakura Hana wrote:Also i think this is town Nero so far.
y?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #7685 (ISO) » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:17 pm

Post by Sando »

In post 7682, Sakura Hana wrote:I'm dissapointed that the people that have posted didnt answer my question, I even bolded and everything so it was harder to miss.
Also i think this is town Nero so far.
You, mostly because you were an option last night and aren't the leader now.
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Post Post #7686 (ISO) » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:42 pm

Post by Toranaga »

what are we waiting for to kill toogeloo?
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Post Post #7687 (ISO) » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:39 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

protip: stungun is scum
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #7688 (ISO) » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:47 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

would also kill Drixx
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #7689 (ISO) » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:48 pm

Post by Drixx »

In post 7609, MathBlade wrote:
In post 7606, Drixx wrote:
In post 7591, stungun0404 wrote:lol. mathblade and i be townslipping not recognizing that sakura took bulletproof last night. so that effectively nullifies that argument, but sakura as leader might be a little more optimal because of her focus on townreading slots moreso than drixx. drixx says he doesn’t do very well with townreads, anyways.
Either I gave the wrong impression or you misunderstood me. I townhunt very well. I just don't generally
share
my town reads and reasons why until there's a reason to do so. It serves no value for me to signal to someone I'm very sure is town that I recognize it. All that accomplishes is putting them higher on scum's radar.

The proper time to reveal and explain townreads is when it gives you a boost in EV/WC. When I think I can lock the game up for a town win, I'll generally start throwing out things (ranging from subtle to overt) to firm up my reads and at some point (if left alive and nobody else is strongly townleading) I'll come out swinging for the fences.

The best example I can think of this off the top of my head is Steven Universe (in hydra with Cerberus). We collectively spent perhaps 100 hours about 1/3 of the way through the game to firm up our reasoning for town reads, and then some more time to make sure we hadn't missed something before we then dumped into the thread our theory of game. It's a little ironic that I feel like that game is the best example of my MO as a town leader when we lost that game but ... the context of that game mitigates it I suppose. We really did have the game to a "Town literally cannot lose unless a town player intentionally sabotages" state ... and a townie sabotaged.

Anyway ... don't want you to misunderstand how I roll. Think of me like an iceberg. You can see a little bit but you're not going to have any idea of what you can't see until I crash into you. (If you'll allow me to stretch the metaphor a bit).
I think the metaphor is on the nose because IMHO we are at the same point of can’t lose unless a townie sabotages. But are you talking SU or SU2 because you were scum in SU2.

SU. We had our townblock reasoned out really solidly. We even figured out the lynchbait was town. We had already caught Titus slipping and bagged her and a scum partner from the slip. The day the sabotage happened, we info dumped who was town. We tested the lynchbait to make sure we were right and they passed with flying colors (but because we like NEVER unvote, either of us, because we both just don't view voting as the same kind of tool most people do ... it left that person within potential lynch range if shenanigans). -- So then we tell the game the exact order of lynches which results in a guaranteed town win, with the reasons why.

The claimed miller (who had said himself the prior game day that he had to eat rope before end game due to the whole miller thing) didn't like that they were at the top of the lynch order and in a pique of spite pulled shenanigans and hammered the lynchbait scum had worked so hard to set up and whom we had posted an ironclad clear of.

Like ... literally if we just freaking unvoted that game was impossible to lose.

But ... it's a game. Everyone plays for their own reasons. I can't tell that player who decided to make a spite play that they have no right to do that. Perhaps they weren't convinced by our logical reasoning which cleared the lynchbait and thought they would "show" us by hammering and the game would end and they could rub our face in it or something.

So yeah ... absolutely can and do make town reads. I'll even step up and town lead when I'm ready if someone else isn't already doing the job. One of the first things I learned once I got to a sufficient level of town play is that's it's an absolutely miserably stupid idea to try and jump in and lead town if someone else is already doing a good job of it. If they fuck up or get something wrong ... can always say something... but trying to push them out and lead instead is just a recipe for a shit sandwhich.

Combine that with the fact that I am very deliberate ... there's only a few games where I needed to do more than share my thoughts/reasoning and actually lead the town. You can find them if you want but you can also find a ton of games where someone else is handling the charismatic part and I'm able to obvtown to them and stay low key.

Generally I feel like scum kind of just never feel threatened by me until it's too late; at least ... not usually threatened enough to NK me (although sometimes they will go to the trouble of killing me twice because you know ... reasons). Part of it is that a lot of players (nobody in particular in this game) just don't think I'm any good at town or whatever. Part of it is inexperience with me. Part of it is who the hell knows. But I will admit that it feels nice to be the default night kill. There was a good like 2 years on my home site where I was either the night one kill or the day two lynch. Like clockwork the game would just see if I died night one and if not they lynched me. Wasn't so fun.

I'm tired. See ya'll on the flip side.
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Post Post #7690 (ISO) » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:49 pm

Post by Drixx »

In post 7688, Nero Cain wrote:would also kill Drixx
This is basically an endorsement coming from Nero. I can't recall a game we've played together where I was town and he didn't scum read me. It's like a self fulfilling prophecy at this point.
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Post Post #7691 (ISO) » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:04 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 7690, Drixx wrote:
In post 7688, Nero Cain wrote:would also kill Drixx
This is basically an endorsement coming from Nero. I can't recall a game we've played together where I was town and he didn't scum read me. It's like a self fulfilling prophecy at this point.
Are you sure we've even had a town game together? The only two games that I remember playing with you are Civ and Coal Miners and you were scum in both.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #7692 (ISO) » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:25 pm

Post by Drixx »

In post 7691, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 7690, Drixx wrote:
In post 7688, Nero Cain wrote:would also kill Drixx
This is basically an endorsement coming from Nero. I can't recall a game we've played together where I was town and he didn't scum read me. It's like a self fulfilling prophecy at this point.
Are you sure we've even had a town game together? The only two games that I remember playing with you are Civ and Coal Miners and you were scum in both.
Lol. Pretty sure we've had quite a lot more than two games together. Nice selective recall though.

Rabbit trail thoughts:

I'm always confused when people bring up Civ mafia and scum!Drixx though. I signed up for Civ prior to Mastina forcing me to invest like ~100 hours on the final day of SU2, with the promise she would actually put in the time and have an actual reason to vote for us (Cerb+Me as RR) which
wasn't
"You're too good as scum. I'd rather lose with you than
to
you." which was basically the sole reason she had to vote us. Like ... okay respect is great but basically that said "My ego is worth more than conceding that I have absolutely no reason to believe you are scum and acting accordingly and if you are scum I can kudos you for pulling it off" which was a pretty solid kick to the nuts ... especially when we played like the last 2.5 to 3 months real time of that game as the final scum and despite believing we were in a no win position for all of that time we still gave absolute 100% effort.

So yeah ... that happened. Then I got rolled as scum in Civ. With Mastina. I should have just immediately replaced out at that point, but I have a lot of affection and respect for that player/mod so I tried to stay in. I realized after day one that I wasn't really in the headspace to even
try
working with Mastina at that point, and I didn't want to zero effort the game so I replaced out. -- At the time I replaced out I had put out a pretty absurdly bold gambit though, AND someone kindly bucked and took the wonder so I would never have had to "pay up" on the gambit. If I had stayed in, I think I could have done a good job in that game ... assuming I would have had the mental reserves to give it the time it deserved.

But umm... what I actually DID in that game was not a lot and I'm not sure why people reference it. The gambit I was running on day one wasn't particularly noteworthy I don't think.

I will admit to Gold Miner $laughter being a good scum game but it wasn't exactly a very big or long game.
End rabbit trail.


I mean ... I think it shouldn't take much effort to go find games with us together and me as town and you scum reading me. If it matters that much to you, I can do a quick run through my game history and just take a quick look at activity log to see if you were there and then your ISO. My brain says you literally always call me scum when I'm town. I listen to my brain and verify as needed.


@Nos - Sure man. I'll shred. I'm actually sad we're not going to make the Drakura Sixx a real thing now.
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Post Post #7693 (ISO) » Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:50 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 7692, Drixx wrote:Nice selective recall though.
or maybe I'm remembering our last two games? Expecting me to remember players lists from years ago when you barely post, to begin with, is the most asine thing I've ever heard. But actually looking in your game list there was the canceled Real folk blues (2016). I
WAS
scum reading your slot but House is kinda a scummy vi and I know that I was scumreading that head. There was Ny183 (2015) where myself and I assume others thought you were scummy as fuck b/c you were a prodgeing lurker. So yes, your statement is
KINDA
correct but I feel like scum reading a derp head and suspecting a do nothing lurker doesn't make me some horribly bad person at reading you and your statement is just kinda discredity and maybe a little immature? Sorry for not remembering games that are 2 and 3 years old? And before you go "but we've played more games!" we have, but those don't count b/c one of us were scum in all those games and we are specifically talking about games where BOTH of us are town.

I mean yeah, at some point I'll sit down and we can do a back and forth and all that jazz and maybe get some other opinions. Like just b/c my reaction off of a limited set of data kinda made me lean scum doesn't mean I'm super invested in a "Drixx has to be scum!" but your reaction kinda makes me think I'm right. IDK, we'll see how I feel after we do the thing.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #7694 (ISO) » Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:33 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 7680, Frozen Angel wrote:@toogelo have you even read my posts now that you're accusing me that I'm scum?
Nope!

In post 7681, Frozen Angel wrote:like what is even your accusation? Fa might still be scum so she is?!

You said I didn't take any stances in last day phase - that is a blatant lie. Also you are repeatedly claiming you didn't read things

what are you scum reading me for then if you didn't read things I posted?
Why does this have you so worked up? I'm confscum to you, so why aren't you ignoring me? Me calling you scum was 100% all-american prime beef gut.


Hey, stun? I've practically offered myself up for free. Why do I need a counter lynch? Not saying the worst maybe doesn't need a little pressure now and again to keep him honest, but pivoting off me to start something on another player seems a bit odd don't you think?
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Post Post #7695 (ISO) » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:04 am

Post by MathBlade »

In post 7668, Nero Cain wrote:y is math leader and who voted for that?
Everyone and because it was between me and Sakura both of us are obvTown so scum probably went with me as people tend to think I am stupid.
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Post Post #7696 (ISO) » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:06 am

Post by MathBlade »

What we have been doing is since the day two fiasco
Current leader is picking two leader candidates then everyone votes in those two people

Right now Sakura and Drixx are my picks
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
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Post Post #7697 (ISO) » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:08 am

Post by MathBlade »

In post 7674, stungun0404 wrote:VOTE: The worst

i want duckling to be the counterwagon here, because odds are decently high he is scum, especially if toog is not

@tw, what tempted you to join the creature wagon last day phase?

same for you toog?
Let’s just lynch Toog when we get the next leader shit planned. Any counter wagon is gonna feel forced and won’t get traction because obvScum Toog.
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Post Post #7698 (ISO) » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:13 am

Post by the worst »

In post 7692, Drixx wrote:@Nos - Sure man. I'll shred. I'm actually sad we're not going to make the Drakura Sixx a real thing now.
we aren't? I already lined up a gig
who's scum? i haven't read up yet but like, it's me
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Post Post #7699 (ISO) » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:15 am

Post by MathBlade »

In post 7692, Drixx wrote:
In post 7691, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 7690, Drixx wrote:
In post 7688, Nero Cain wrote:would also kill Drixx
This is basically an endorsement coming from Nero. I can't recall a game we've played together where I was town and he didn't scum read me. It's like a self fulfilling prophecy at this point.
Are you sure we've even had a town game together? The only two games that I remember playing with you are Civ and Coal Miners and you were scum in both.
Lol. Pretty sure we've had quite a lot more than two games together. Nice selective recall though.

Rabbit trail thoughts:

I'm always confused when people bring up Civ mafia and scum!Drixx though. I signed up for Civ prior to Mastina forcing me to invest like ~100 hours on the final day of SU2, with the promise she would actually put in the time and have an actual reason to vote for us (Cerb+Me as RR) which
wasn't
"You're too good as scum. I'd rather lose with you than
to
you." which was basically the sole reason she had to vote us. Like ... okay respect is great but basically that said "My ego is worth more than conceding that I have absolutely no reason to believe you are scum and acting accordingly and if you are scum I can kudos you for pulling it off" which was a pretty solid kick to the nuts ... especially when we played like the last 2.5 to 3 months real time of that game as the final scum and despite believing we were in a no win position for all of that time we still gave absolute 100% effort.

So yeah ... that happened. Then I got rolled as scum in Civ. With Mastina. I should have just immediately replaced out at that point, but I have a lot of affection and respect for that player/mod so I tried to stay in. I realized after day one that I wasn't really in the headspace to even
try
working with Mastina at that point, and I didn't want to zero effort the game so I replaced out. -- At the time I replaced out I had put out a pretty absurdly bold gambit though, AND someone kindly bucked and took the wonder so I would never have had to "pay up" on the gambit. If I had stayed in, I think I could have done a good job in that game ... assuming I would have had the mental reserves to give it the time it deserved.

But umm... what I actually DID in that game was not a lot and I'm not sure why people reference it. The gambit I was running on day one wasn't particularly noteworthy I don't think.

I will admit to Gold Miner $laughter being a good scum game but it wasn't exactly a very big or long game.
End rabbit trail.


I mean ... I think it shouldn't take much effort to go find games with us together and me as town and you scum reading me. If it matters that much to you, I can do a quick run through my game history and just take a quick look at activity log to see if you were there and then your ISO. My brain says you literally always call me scum when I'm town. I listen to my brain and verify as needed.


@Nos - Sure man. I'll shred. I'm actually sad we're not going to make the Drakura Sixx a real thing now.
In post 7689, Drixx wrote:
In post 7609, MathBlade wrote:
In post 7606, Drixx wrote:
In post 7591, stungun0404 wrote:lol. mathblade and i be townslipping not recognizing that sakura took bulletproof last night. so that effectively nullifies that argument, but sakura as leader might be a little more optimal because of her focus on townreading slots moreso than drixx. drixx says he doesn’t do very well with townreads, anyways.
Either I gave the wrong impression or you misunderstood me. I townhunt very well. I just don't generally
share
my town reads and reasons why until there's a reason to do so. It serves no value for me to signal to someone I'm very sure is town that I recognize it. All that accomplishes is putting them higher on scum's radar.

The proper time to reveal and explain townreads is when it gives you a boost in EV/WC. When I think I can lock the game up for a town win, I'll generally start throwing out things (ranging from subtle to overt) to firm up my reads and at some point (if left alive and nobody else is strongly townleading) I'll come out swinging for the fences.

The best example I can think of this off the top of my head is Steven Universe (in hydra with Cerberus). We collectively spent perhaps 100 hours about 1/3 of the way through the game to firm up our reasoning for town reads, and then some more time to make sure we hadn't missed something before we then dumped into the thread our theory of game. It's a little ironic that I feel like that game is the best example of my MO as a town leader when we lost that game but ... the context of that game mitigates it I suppose. We really did have the game to a "Town literally cannot lose unless a town player intentionally sabotages" state ... and a townie sabotaged.

Anyway ... don't want you to misunderstand how I roll. Think of me like an iceberg. You can see a little bit but you're not going to have any idea of what you can't see until I crash into you. (If you'll allow me to stretch the metaphor a bit).
I think the metaphor is on the nose because IMHO we are at the same point of can’t lose unless a townie sabotages. But are you talking SU or SU2 because you were scum in SU2.

SU. We had our townblock reasoned out really solidly. We even figured out the lynchbait was town. We had already caught Titus slipping and bagged her and a scum partner from the slip. The day the sabotage happened, we info dumped who was town. We tested the lynchbait to make sure we were right and they passed with flying colors (but because we like NEVER unvote, either of us, because we both just don't view voting as the same kind of tool most people do ... it left that person within potential lynch range if shenanigans). -- So then we tell the game the exact order of lynches which results in a guaranteed town win, with the reasons why.

The claimed miller (who had said himself the prior game day that he had to eat rope before end game due to the whole miller thing) didn't like that they were at the top of the lynch order and in a pique of spite pulled shenanigans and hammered the lynchbait scum had worked so hard to set up and whom we had posted an ironclad clear of.

Like ... literally if we just freaking unvoted that game was impossible to lose.

But ... it's a game. Everyone plays for their own reasons. I can't tell that player who decided to make a spite play that they have no right to do that. Perhaps they weren't convinced by our logical reasoning which cleared the lynchbait and thought they would "show" us by hammering and the game would end and they could rub our face in it or something.

So yeah ... absolutely can and do make town reads. I'll even step up and town lead when I'm ready if someone else isn't already doing the job. One of the first things I learned once I got to a sufficient level of town play is that's it's an absolutely miserably stupid idea to try and jump in and lead town if someone else is already doing a good job of it. If they fuck up or get something wrong ... can always say something... but trying to push them out and lead instead is just a recipe for a shit sandwhich.

Combine that with the fact that I am very deliberate ... there's only a few games where I needed to do more than share my thoughts/reasoning and actually lead the town. You can find them if you want but you can also find a ton of games where someone else is handling the charismatic part and I'm able to obvtown to them and stay low key.

Generally I feel like scum kind of just never feel threatened by me until it's too late; at least ... not usually threatened enough to NK me (although sometimes they will go to the trouble of killing me twice because you know ... reasons). Part of it is that a lot of players (nobody in particular in this game) just don't think I'm any good at town or whatever. Part of it is inexperience with me. Part of it is who the hell knows. But I will admit that it feels nice to be the default night kill. There was a good like 2 years on my home site where I was either the night one kill or the day two lynch. Like clockwork the game would just see if I died night one and if not they lynched me. Wasn't so fun.

I'm tired. See ya'll on the flip side.
<3 Agreed. The townbloc has got this we just have to find the scum in the lynchpool. And it’s for that reason I never defend you day one if I am scum. It’s a stupid move lol. You can break games wide open as town it’s just more gotta have faith in brethren.

Keep in mind Titus didn’t want me to be good she attacked me at every turn. She reminds people I am bad. Because mechanics are your and my jam. Scum didn’t waste a bullet on me when they could because they thought Titus’s shade would work. And now with town block’s ingenuity if they ever do shoot you or me it’s a scum claim and confirmation of a deep wolf. We just gotta ride this out.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
GTKAS -- MathBlade
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