Heroes Wanted! (Game Over)

[MathBlade]

Eh, Nos, he's called Ace in my homesite.

Ah thanks

As for reads I am only really confident in who is getting powers minus Shiro.

[MathBlade]

He think your list should have been just drixx and me.

There is no way a list should ever be less than 5 people with this many here unless the person is mod confirmed IC.

As much as I townread FA she isn’t. So 5 people have to get powers.

[MathBlade]

He think your list should have been just drixx and me.

I am thinking you think this and not Cerb.

This doesn’t sit right with me. Cerb is good with mechanics and that is just not.

[MathBlade]

If we TR FA enough to stack leadership on her we should trust her to pick less than 5 imo

If we trust her enough to be leader she should want to pick 5. We stack up on heals like Christmas and neuter scum. Maybe one person picks up a petrify. But mainly gimping town makes 0 sense here. We have only one day’s knowledge ahead.

[MathBlade]

I am absolutely vehemently against less than 5.

[MathBlade]

He actually think drixx should be leader and pick nobody tommorow sooo yea.

Again that is stupid and if it is coming from Cerb I am assuming he and I switched brains or something because that sounds like me derp.

[MathBlade]

His pov is valid, it limits the chance of scum getting powers that can be useful to them.

1) If scum get powers that are useful the instant they use them in a scummy way they are outed by outing who we pick. They are down one already and if Titus is scum 2.
2) If we accidentally fuck up and give it to scum we learn more by what powers a person picks and why. If anything scum can’t afford being popular as that is limelight.

[MathBlade]

The whole let’s shoot ourselves in the foot and play Mountainous is stupid.

[MathBlade]

3) It forces scum that want powers to fucking fight for them. We will either end up seeing a flurry of activity or scum get nothing. Then we analyze those that pop up.

[MathBlade]

I practically trust no other slot in this game enough to allow them to choose less than 5 players.

If they are scum they can choose their own scum mates and we will never figure out they got powers and we won't ever have a lead to figure that out. It's just a really bad idea to allow people to choose fewer players generally.

+1 exactly.

[MathBlade]

Btw friendly reminder to vote katsuki

Is Shiro Katsuki Titus Numbers a thing?

Like I don’t get this.

[MathBlade]

Btw friendly reminder to vote katsuki

Is Shiro Katsuki Titus Numbers a thing?

Like I don’t get this.

I want katsuki dead but if you want to think I am bussing then yea sure assist me bussing.

Then why the reminder to vote him leader?

[MathBlade]

Btw friendly reminder to vote katsuki

You mean for lynch right? Good luck with that. Lol. Titus is at L-2 already.

Btw, I think you should do whatever you need to do to protect yourself. I don’t think you should risk not using bp.

And that is my queue to go to bed lolz

[MathBlade]

And that is my queue to go to bed lolz

Do you make queues to go to bed? xD

In all seriousness i think you meant to say "cue" not "queue"

Did I mention I need to go to bed? Lolololol

[MathBlade]

VOTE: katsuki

leggo

Also can we please stop having these close to deadline last minute switch requests

I voted Kats earlier there didnt seem to be much support, i did notice that muffin eyebrowed me for voting him, if kats is indeed scum that might be telling, idk.

Regardless, right now what i need is to sleep.

*goes to bed*

Wakes up because insomnia.

*sees thread on fire trying to switch to Katsuki*



How the fuck did we end up with the thread like this?

[MathBlade]

Like if we don’t lynch Titus like omg. I can’t do words right now.

I will do my best to check in at work.

Anyone changing the wagon better have an airtight case. Otherwise I don’t want to hear about it.

[MathBlade]

I can’t check at work.

I can run one at home if eod hasn’t happened

[MathBlade]

Got pulled into the QA room today can’t post.

Will take a late lunch and check the game then

[MathBlade]

I think when titus says "some forgotters are scum", she means that scum may be claiming to have forgotten, not that scum actually did forget. I could be wrong. I want to understand if titus thinks she was framed by scum or voted by town. if titus was framed by scum, that means scum does not have very towny people in the game they can push as leader. on the other hand, given the likelihood of a titus lynch on d2, I'm puzzled by what scum has to gain by protecting her and have her choose powers for town, which could essentially lock her as town depending on how she acts.

so I think scum either coordinated for scum!titus leader, or did not coordinate at all and titus won by pure accident because the votes were sparce.

FA, do you think scum!titus would push hard for her own leadership on n1 to her scumbuddies? it seems like a thing she'd do.

Permission to Garcia ?

[MathBlade]

I think when titus says "some forgotters are scum", she means that scum may be claiming to have forgotten, not that scum actually did forget. I could be wrong. I want to understand if titus thinks she was framed by scum or voted by town. if titus was framed by scum, that means scum does not have very towny people in the game they can push as leader. on the other hand, given the likelihood of a titus lynch on d2, I'm puzzled by what scum has to gain by protecting her and have her choose powers for town, which could essentially lock her as town depending on how she acts.

so I think scum either coordinated for scum!titus leader, or did not coordinate at all and titus won by pure accident because the votes were sparce.

FA, do you think scum!titus would push hard for her own leadership on n1 to her scumbuddies? it seems like a thing she'd do.

Permission to Garcia ?

go ahead please

I think a desperate Titus does here but only if she is scum with lurkers in extremely paranoid lurker works with like Titus FA or Titus Shiro she doesn’t. I find Titus lurkers more likely she does as she would feel she would have to save it after 123456789 goes down.

[MathBlade]

Titus then aims to be “confirmed” by Ank to have given an power and doesn’t give powers to her buddies. Because once she is confirmed she could argue to expand the block to her buddies.

The fact she has “no idea” who scum is means her buddies are likely all lurkers

[MathBlade]

@Torg, I think scum may have lied or failed to submit (if the mod did not let them). The issue is if I go with elected by scum theory d2, the optimal play is to set back and let town elect my pool. I selected those I TRed, felt were competent and largely not SRed.

As for who is scum, I am actually gravely struggling with that.

I think if scum elected me, the move is to create paranoia because my townblocks tend to be accurate.

Gun to my head, Sando and Creature should be lynched today

Except this is a lie.
You’ve been trying to doubtcast me every chance you can.

[MathBlade]

so apparently i believe shiro earlier in this day phase said iirc that cerbs only scum lean was on titus.

but then apparently cerb voted titus as leader. and later cerb has a townlean on titus

like i sincerely don’t get what’s going on there

Mainly I think Shiro is trying to elevate his thoughts with Cerb’s and got busted with the less than 5.
Whether it is trying to boost his reads because he feels flustered or Shiro scum tbd

I think it is the first.

Gtg again sorry

[MathBlade]

so apparently i believe shiro earlier in this day phase said iirc that cerbs only scum lean was on titus.

but then apparently cerb voted titus as leader. and later cerb has a townlean on titus

like i sincerely don’t get what’s going on there

Mainly I think Shiro is trying to elevate his thoughts with Cerb’s and got busted with the less than 5.
Whether it is trying to boost his reads because he feels flustered or Shiro scum tbd

I think it is the first.

Gtg again sorry

Say what now?

I think you are trying to say Cerb agrees with you to boost influence to try to save Titus because you genuinely believe she is town. I just don’t think Cerb is saying what you say he is and I townread you.

[MathBlade]

I think when titus says "some forgotters are scum", she means that scum may be claiming to have forgotten, not that scum actually did forget. I could be wrong. I want to understand if titus thinks she was framed by scum or voted by town. if titus was framed by scum, that means scum does not have very towny people in the game they can push as leader. on the other hand, given the likelihood of a titus lynch on d2, I'm puzzled by what scum has to gain by protecting her and have her choose powers for town, which could essentially lock her as town depending on how she acts.

so I think scum either coordinated for scum!titus leader, or did not coordinate at all and titus won by pure accident because the votes were sparce.

FA, do you think scum!titus would push hard for her own leadership on n1 to her scumbuddies? it seems like a thing she'd do.

hmm. these are actually good points for town titus for once...

ugh, i’m not sure i want to unvote her here though

It’s not don’t have time to explain.

[MathBlade]

Cerb says that drixx needs to desperately come to confirm me for all the latest posts.

Checking in. You guys are generating pages fast than I have been able to keep up.

@Cerberus:

What condition was I suffering from when I took over the place where we met? Who is the person or people who nearly destroyed said place such that it took me stepping in to save it in the middle of said prior condition?


I'm pretty sure only Cerb can answer that.

I am 100% sure Cerb is the only one who can answer that.
I have no doubt he can speak with acerbic
What I doubt is when Shiro says Cerb is saying stuff it’s actually cerb

[MathBlade]

FA, Math, anyone else who wants to answer: What do I need to focus my time on right now? I don't think I can read every post and get caught up rapidly enough to be useful. I'll put being useful above reading every single post. Just throw me some guidace.

Assume Titus is scum
ISO her and find buddies.

Also please vote Titus

[MathBlade]

Make sure it isn’t hammer first to make sure convo can continue

[MathBlade]

Votecount 3.19

Leader: Frozen Angel

Titus (9):

Katsuki, stungun0404, MathBlade, Sando, Nosferatu, Gamma Emerald, Sakura Hana, Nancy Drew 39, <Toranaga Unvoted>

Katsuki (5):

Shiro, hebichan, Toogeloo, Kokichi Oma, Titus

Creature (2):

zMuffinMan, the worst

Drixx (0):

Gamma Emerald (0):

hebichan (0):

Kokichi Oma (0):

MathBlade(0):

Nancy Drew 39 (0):

Nosferatu (0):

Sakura Hana (0):

Sando (0):

Shiro (0):

stungun0404 (0):

the worst (0):

Toogeloo (0):

Toranaga (0):

zMuffinMan (0):

Not Voting (3):

Creature, Drixx, Frozen Angel

With

19

players, it takes

10

to lynch.
The day ends in (expired on 2018-08-02 21:00:00).

Titus is on V/LA.
Nancy Drew is on V/LA for (expired on 2018-08-08 00:00:00).
zMuffinMan has requested replacement.

Abilities Available for Acquisition

**Healing Touch:

Target another player. If that player has not been killed, any debilitating or harmful effects are removed.

Impenetrable Skin:

You are protected from one killing action until the next Night Phase.

Petrification:

Target another player. That player loses their ability to post, vote, and submit actions and no longer counts for parity.

Power Echo:

Target another player. Any targeting Superpowers this player uses this Night Phase will be used on another player of your choice in addition to their original target.

Power Negation:

Target another player. That player can neither use Superpowers nor be targeted by them until the next Night Phase.

*Shapeshifting:

Target another player. Any actions you take this Night Phase will appear as though that player performed them instead.

*May be used to modify any Superpowers a player may have. Does not count against the number of Superpowers a player may use each Night Phase.
**May be used during the Day but still counts against the following Night's Superpower usage. If used during the Day, resolves immediately. If used during the Night, resolves normally.

7 hours people and lunch break almost over.
<> is me updating

[MathBlade]

i just looked to see if cerb’s online

and guess what. he isn’t. he has traceable online times too

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=24939

last visited: 6:08 am today

so is shiro lying with all this additional information she’s spewing?

he could be checking this in offline mode.

can’t do that, it would show up as last visited: ————-. look at my profile for proof.

unless there’s a private topic on another site, which i highly doubt, shiro seems to me to be lying here

There are ways to easily fool vbulletin last login time / visit time is a joke

[MathBlade]

we have 7 hours until deadline, guys

let’s not make a last minute push here. it’s not smart at all

+1

[MathBlade]

Down to lynch Creature but Titus is so blatantly obvious scum.

Like why did this counter wagon start when it did? Why?

*cartoon fuming* Titus obvScum

[MathBlade]

read: lurkier players voting a lurker out.

looks bad to the eyes for a last minute vote push

Nos and Toog are not lurkers.

all a matter of relative opinion, but this day phase i feel both slots have largely stayed out of the limelight in times where the heat was hot in the thread, times when it would be exceptionally easy for any scum slot to just say “fuck it” i don’t want to post. for example, when mathblade and i were going at it, or as goes the whole shiro argument, which i don’t think either has commented much on but i may be wrong - this is mainly off memory

That's the thing. There's so much circular spam and no one listening to each other that we can argue over who is a lurker. People aren't communicating with each other, demotivating a whole host of slots. Lurkers are likely in both alignments but no one can establish real pressure until EoD because of circle jerk tunnelling.

Math did the same thing in Civilization for instance. Ank promised he'd fix it but he died.

Number 1 Ank is a she
Number 2 that game is more than a year old
Number 3 I was town this game and that one you’re talking to me as if you know I am town
Number 4 I have two recent decent town games on record
Number 5 I have been afk a lot and am only posting because close to deadline nearly all my posts are catchup
Number 6 I feel like Creature is your redirection choice like Creature if scum I can handle

I am super scared of you being able to wiggle out of this despite being obvScum

[MathBlade]

Wait, why would we not have another chance to vote creature? Why is that a concern?

A fucking men

[MathBlade]

I gotta go again but we are lynching Titus.

[MathBlade]

Creature (6): zMuffinMan,

the worst, Titus, Toogeloo, Nosferatu

, stungun0404

Holy shit this is ugly.

+1

[MathBlade]

Although i guess if you put it that way, i currently feel strongly about both of you being scum, i just think that if ppl are undecided, unless they TR you and SR creature the choice is obvious.

And is there any reason that is besides me feeling confident in what little reads I have given? Like right now, I feel everything against me is but she's goood at scum and information and more fucking strawmen and perpetual spam to stop scumhunting.

:/

I almost don't wanna lynch you titus

I like you this much

I have given numerous reasons

I feel you are trying to manipulate this game state and cause people to ask the wrong goddamn questions
I feel that you are completely not reading the thread else you would have acknowledged the numerous times I asked you about the data I provided
I feel that your randomization argument is full of shit and wanted to deny reads and a townblock

I feel you are scum in my goddamn core

[MathBlade]

VOTE: creature

titus is one towny cookie rn

No she fucking isn’t.

[MathBlade]

Although i guess if you put it that way, i currently feel strongly about both of you being scum, i just think that if ppl are undecided, unless they TR you and SR creature the choice is obvious.

And is there any reason that is besides me feeling confident in what little reads I have given? Like right now, I feel everything against me is but she's goood at scum and information and more fucking strawmen and perpetual spam to stop scumhunting.

:/

I almost don't wanna lynch you titus

I like you this much

I have given numerous reasons

I feel you are trying to manipulate this game state and cause people to ask the wrong goddamn questions
I feel that you are completely not reading the thread else you would have acknowledged the numerous times I asked you about the data I provided
I feel that your randomization argument is full of shit and wanted to deny reads and a townblock

I feel you are scum in my goddamn core

Who can read the entire thread right now?

I have answered about my data.

Being a math person, you'd know random lynches are statistically optimal but boring as fuck.

Again
Cite your damn sources
Two all mafia experiments I know of are without detectives/PRs
The instant PRs get added most experiments fail

PRs galore here.
If you had data on this setup it would be considered
Otherwise it’s statistically and sccientifically flawed to bring it up.

It’s just shit to deny reads and the bastardixarion of stats to boot

I hate stats but stats does t deserve this

[MathBlade]

VOTE: creature

titus is one towny cookie rn

No she fucking isn’t.

I won't argue with her sibling about it

you're probably right and I'm being dumb right now, but she is resonating with me. she has had very wolfy moments, but I do think she was put on a horrible spotlight early on by being voted as leader and that lead town into thinking she is lockscum.

she is keeping some kind of internal peace while constantly at l-2/l-1 that I can't not townread.

Titus is good scum goddamn it. She knows how to make you not want to do what you should.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: creature

titus is one towny cookie rn

No she fucking isn’t.

I won't argue with her sibling about it

you're probably right and I'm being dumb right now, but she is resonating with me. she has had very wolfy moments, but I do think she was put on a horrible spotlight early on by being voted as leader and that lead town into thinking she is lockscum.

she is keeping some kind of internal peace while constantly at l-2/l-1 that I can't not townread.

Titus is good scum goddamn it. She knows how to make you not want to do what you should.

Hi Burden of Proficiency.

Anyone who knows you can cite sources
The game we were scum together
The game I barely defeated you in lylo
The game you fooled me
The game with the fake guilty

The list of good scum games from you is fucking long.
You are scum here it’s fucking clear

[MathBlade]

Are you townreading Creature? Answer without referencing me or my wagon.

Slightly ya.

what's towny about creature?

@sando

It looks more like his town game than his scum game...it's a gut read and not exactly strong.

How the fuck are people following Titus onto Creature? Titus literally said you can't show lurking because you "can't quote air", yet here she is, wanting to lynch Creature.

she is the other wagon though

yes she said you and creature were her scumreads. and she casted shade on so many people I can't even mention.

I get the gut creature read. that's what my gut says as well. but my gut is also saying the way titus is behaving rn is town. so what do.

We have to lynch Titus or Creature join Titus it’s maj and infinitely better
Listen to the damn town block
I am bending over backwards to try to explain it
Lynch Titus

[MathBlade]

is titus at l1 or l2?

No clue won’t be home til an hour or two when my program if it reads every vote right can tell me

[MathBlade]

o hi more pages

I think she's still L1? want me to hammer or?

not now, let FA go to bed first

If FA goes to bed we only have hours til EOD we no lynch

[MathBlade]

Please someone fucking smash Titus to bits I am afk for an hour and a half sorry

[MathBlade]

math thinks titus is scum almost every game

Above average yes
But if town literally is antitown simply because I scumread Titus then that is complete and utter BS.

Titus is scum I have given undefended reasons
I am defenseless confirmed town screaming what is possibly my last fucking will

If I am wrong then you all can laugh and ridicule me and Titus and Shiro can spirit medium mock me for all the damn time if Shiro lives

[MathBlade]

math thinks titus is scum almost every game

Above average yes
But if town literally is antitown simply because I scumread Titus then that is complete and utter BS.

Titus is scum I have given undefended reasons
I am defenseless confirmed town screaming what is possibly my last fucking will

If I am wrong then you all can laugh and ridicule me and Titus and Shiro can spirit medium mock me for all the damn time if Shiro lives

Okay I am not confirmed but very probable town but omg.

[MathBlade]

when FA gets her well deserved rest I'll vote titus

Nike.
Just...do it.

When FA normally wakes up it is post deadline

[MathBlade]

her AtE’s if scum i have to admit are pretty on point here recently —> that is those from titus. they have a town sort of feel but ugh i still think she’s scum

Why? I also don't get how demanding reasons is AtE.

Being emotional =/= AtE.

This is literally the definition of AtE
AtE = Appeal to emotion
Being emotional is AtE

[MathBlade]

can anyone count the votes on titus

please?

When I get home in an hour.

Fuck.

Pedit enjoy

[MathBlade]

That confirmation doesn't confirm your alignment even in slightest.

It doesn't even mean scum!you did not risk killing ank without power negation cause he calimed it. Also nancy was also in your pool of 5 and could be the power negation

And I don't trust shiro confirming that from ank as I just said.

like Idk I actually think no power negation was used last night when they killed ank because that just makes so much sense.

We’ve only said that a few hundred (hyperbole) times

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: Long ass post

Thank god. Scum just literally saved me from leading a mislynch wagon. I had a 2000+ word writeup ready where I thought shiro was near lockscum, and i'm posting it anyway so you guys have proof that this was what i thought. And had the evidence to back it up too. I'll copy and paste it in here, so as to have proof of how much i worked on it

But I still am townblocking this crew of players: Sakura Hana, MathBlade, Toranaga, Stungun, Frozen angel (who is locktown pretty much now to me; Titus clearly attempted to brainwash her d1), and Sando. Will have to check my confidence on these players again now with a shiro townflip confirmed, but fa is without a doubt town for me.

------








Took an abundance of notes over the night phase, so i will simply copy and paste to spill any thoughts and conclusions here. I believe this together with a scumflip of titus--who i tunneled hard most of last day phase-- might make up for how i had nothing coming into yesterday except for that i had isolated ankamius and found her slot to be town so i voted her for leader as she was first alphabetically among living players, and since she was town enough i decided to end my search for a leader to vote there.

Spoiler: this is long and largely unfiltered

• Toranaga is
  town
  . Toranaga vs. Titus is absolutely not
  scum
  vs.
  scum
  imo.
  
  
• 1049 upholds this; tog at this moment must be toranaga, and titus never confirmed that when i asked who tog was. lack of follow-up conclusion (re: on alignment of toranaga after numbers flip) likely means titus didn't have any incentive to provide reasoning to clear toranaga as
  town
  . Further, ankamius had
  townblocked
  toranaga, and at eod i definitely saw
  town motive
  in some things he did.
  
  
• So, I feel confident enough to
  townblock
  sakura hana, toranaga, mathblade, frozen angel, and sando. In addition to myself (stungun) knowing i am
  town
  , which you are free to discount if you would like. I can explain each of these cogently if need be. Feel free if after considering these other notes i took you still need further explanation on the towniness of a player.
  
  
• FA IS CONCLUSIVELY--AGAINST ATTACK--
  TOWN
  TO ME. I
  LOCKTOWN
  READ HER NOW. This is because a). blatant brainwashing attempts by Titus regarding who she should target with power roles--suggesting she randomize them. FA very clearly did not agree to this plan, and in fact was heavily against it in a way that screams towniness for her now with a Titus
  scumflip
  . If that was
  scum
  theatre, I heavily believe both of them drop their argument there at some point, BUT they didn't. b). Titus tried to subtly pick at possibilities of fa being
  scum
  so as to try and discredit her at the start on D1, and she found out this didn't quite work and instead decided to pocket fa to try and obtain powers in a way
  scum
  titus does not do to
  scum
  fa imo. Titus even said D1 leader is always
  scum-motivated
  at one point, meaning she wouldn't have batted at suggestions of fa being
  scum
  . And c). Shiro even tried brainwashing fa by having her choose only 2 leader targets, which would clearly benefit
  scum
  , AND FA was having NONE of that. FA is
  town
  here all the way.
  
  
• 1950 makes me think Drixx is
  town
  .
  
  
• 713/715 with titus = strange interaction
  
  
• zmuffinman maybe not
  scum
  . not very confident on this one though
  
  
• 1959/1962 kinda feels like
  town
  vs.
  scum
  , so a clear point to nancydrew's credit given a titus
  scumflip
  .
  
  
• i think
  town
  almost entirely was on the titus wagon yesterday, because
  scum
  held her as precious to their survival. this is apparent given the total unstated and stated reluctance to a titus lynch by several players. If
  scum
  had helped by bussing titus, i have absolute faith that the last day phase would not have lasted as long as it did.
  
  
• 1965 by titus asks why tw, hebi and shiro need to be reinvestigated. maybe a
  scum
  buddy is in there?
  
  
• 2177 may be trying to get a
  scum buddy
  townread
  
  
  
• 2183: "Shiro and random are just lurkers and just tentative based on votes."
  scum buddy
  there imo, and it's definitely not random/mathblade.
  
  
• i'm pretty sure shiro is
  scum
  . toranaga is
  town
  from what would be harmful interactions with titus on d1 if toranaga was
  scum
  with titus. additionally, i don't feel torg changes vote to creature if
  scum
  with titus and just accepts the distancing attempt at eod last day phase
  
  
• 2195 human sequencer noted
  
  
• 2212 = perfect post for Titus to include partner in somewhere
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• shiro is most likely
  scum
  imo.
  
  
• titus attacks players d1 for fa as leader vote. only numbers, toranaga, shiro and cerb who is
  conftown
  voted for fa as leader.
  scum
  faction may have killed cerb to deflect attention away from fa vote wagon given scum flip of numbers and how titus had pushed it and it had been correct, and how titus knew that fa leader pick was
  scum-motivated
  = probably 2 scum exactly voted for fa as leader.
  
  
• by proven flips and PoE, 123 is
  scum
  , torg is
  town
  , and cerb is
  town
  . So this means only shiro makes sense as
  scum
  here. this is clear given titus did not really check on the other 2 players for their votes on fa d2, meaning she really didn't have incentive to continue there because of cerb
  townflip
  . She thereby is excused to drop it after that, so she could continue to "coast" d2 by pushing a different angle with an excuse to move away from that pool of players. I think she nightkills someone else n1 and continues to promote that perspective being possible regarding the other 3 players if none of the others were
  scum
  , or at least allows
  town
  themselves to pursue that. Given she dropped it and her faction killed cerb makes me think shiro is also a
  scumpartner
  of titus.
  
  
  
  
• Scum
  titus probably does not question
  scum
  zmuffinman on a conclusion of brassherald and nicorobin being scum together, and given both the questions are about
  townplayers
  being
  scumread
  (i know this as brassherald = ank and nicorobin =stungun = me now), this was probably an attempt to gain towncred and not have a
  scum
  partner flesh out a response, but i might be wrong here. Further, i think this means she would question
  townreads
  on
  scum
  partners, like shiro, which she did in fact question d1.
  
  
• Supposedly, Titus states in 2032 she pushed Shiro and UFO (which she keeps referring to vaguely and i have figured out that is toranaga), but this is far from the truth. Only early mentions of shiro in her entire iso before that are in 870, where titus asked about an early
  townread
  on zmuffinman (who might be
  town
  , idk?) and specifically shiro just because "no cookies". What kind of reasoning to attach to questioning someone over their towniness is that? Titus
  scumreads
  shiro -- who similarly to her number on reads which literally says just "eat rope" in her reads list, Titus says "
  scum
  . no cookies."
  
  
• But yet titus never stated a real reason for early
  scumread
  on shiro. Numbers also goes on to
  townread
  shiro after a few other players
  townread
  him, echoing in a sense. Titus never really engaged in anything meaningful with shiro, and apparently her stance on shiro changed after he posted a post including just a cookie. What?
  
  
• Yet the real oddity D2 is that Titus starts out in post 2032 saying she pushed UFO and Shiro "
  A LOT
  " on day 1 when this in fact is far from the truth. Toranaga/UFO, yes. Shiro, absolutely not. What this reads like to me is Shiro was one of her more widely
  townread
  scum
  partners, and Titus wanted to give a
  scum
  partner a superpower, and so chose to
  townread
  Shiro. Shiro furthered this by going for the clear towncred option of mediumship.
  
  
• What the interaction regarding the word a lot being used there might indicate is shiro and titus may have planned to push each other on d1 in the
  scum
  pt, but really didn't follow through with it. I think this may be the case here.
  
  
• The power of it lies in the fact that the mediumship power gives shiro the ability to continue to look
  towny
  on the basis of his action alone. Additionally, Shiro was heavily pushing at that awkward angle of frozen angel
  scum
  last day phase, which at this point just seems like it was an effort trying to distract away from titus
  scum
  by pinning suspicion on the other leader instead when titus clearly was the
  scummier
  of the two leaders i would say without any doubt. Moreover, Shiro really pushes at the Sando mislynch wagon, hard-defending Titus in the process. And her
  confscum
  read, "coming from cerb", on me was probably because i was reading the game decently and trending in a direction that scared shiro!
  scum
  , so he wanted to see if "cerb" would be enough to get a wagon forming on me with a
  confscum
  read on me. Further, "SHIRO STILL PUSHES THE ANGLE ON ME BEING
  SCUM
  BY SAYING, MAYBE WITH FROZEN ANGEL." If this isn't far fetched and a desperate attempt of throwing possibility > probability into play to save a
  scum
  partner, then i don't know what is. This scum tell is one for one for me with a caught titus now, as i stated randomization of power roles was favoring possibility way too heavily.
  
  
• Now, that reads as a blatant attempt to desperately promote confusion about the gamestate to me, because i don't know how town could possibly be this far off. And yet encourage another mislynch in sando. That's 3 ml's supported, including fa and i. You'd think Shiro would have
  conftown-read
  Titus the way he was pushing against it yesterday with "Cerb agreeing." i don't believe this bs at all.
  
  
• 2459 from ank noted.
  
  
• Nosferatu may yet be
  town
  . I've still not made a definite conclusion there. I don't think he's clear successor to titus being
  scum
  now that i have seen titus flip
  scum
  and reconsidered things. But he may still be
  scum
  .
  
  
• Mathblade is clear
  town
  after titus flip. There's zero need for him ever to make post 2317 against
  scum
  titus if partners.
  Town
  vs.
  Scum
  , clearly.
  
  
• 2309 scum is not
  obvtowning
  a read of a
  scum
  partner here--fa--who isn't even really under danger. reads like buddying all the way, here.
  
  
• sando was framed last day phase, this should be clear now with titus
  scum flip
  given a); the immediate and early-on somewhat unrelenting push against sando to start the day phase following a fake cop guilty by nos called out by sakura hana, and the continuation of it as counter to titus likely served as a
  scum-encouraged
  shield to titus, whose flip would be gamebreaking. And B). The last vote ankamius made while alive in this game was on Sando, and I think if Sando AND Titus were
  scum
  together, then it would be screwing their faction as a whole to make this kill (risks i feel outweigh rewards) and given the overall reluctance to a Titus lynch, I don't think they would want to put another partner under fire as well. Too much turbulence from an ank kill afflicts both Sando and Titus too much for that
  scum
  team to advocate that kill, given they are both quite experienced. This holds unless you think I am
  scum
  with Titus and Sando. That's up to you to decide. I have more defending that team not being plausible, but will only defend it if necessary.
  
  
• That serious push against Sando looks to have a sketchier motive after a Titus
  scum
  flip. I will go back and look at who pushed against Sando there, or encouraged that push to continue without laying a vote down.
  
  
• Next, both the amount of stated and unstated resistance to the titus lynch and high number of decently supported counterwagons directly proves that
  scum
  held the titus chip as a centerpiece that was particularly important to their faction's survival. Which suggests by consequence it has that game-breaking potential.
  
  
• Now, Toog stated highest confidence
  townread
  on now
  confscum
  Titus. And defended it pretty hard. He promised to reread, and I will give him his chance there. Idk how the numbers flip made titus
  towniest
  though in his impression. But clearly now I proved my impression of the bad
  townreads
  on Titus and the fact that
  scum
  very likely picked optimal distancing spots and positioning on the numbers wagon to be true. So, if
  town
  , toog should be a lot more careful there. The whole body of work of Titus was definitely
  scummier
  than it was
  towny
  , to the extent where looking at it and examining the evidence that lead to us lynching her makes it difficult to defend titus as
  town
  .
  
  
• And unfortunately i switched off titus lynchwagon to creature for a short time period. I blame lack of sleep (got two hours the night before), and the distracting temptation of a creature pressure wagon. i, however, still wanted titus lynched primarily and would have stayed focused there if i was not either distracted by the creature wagon or if i had gotten more sleep and been able to recognize why exactly i was pushing titus. it seems i dropped everything with that one distraction in an instant, but at least i switched right back realizing my mistake after hebichan (thank you!) questioned me. And also i may have cracked a little to the pressure of having the titus
  scumflip
  ride entirely on me being correct (some votes sheeped me and i've never felt that kind of pressure before); i felt there was a lot of weight being given to my push and i had some very slight inklings of doubt at various stages. Overall, though i will stand by my creature vote and own it like a man.
  
  
• Toog's defense of titus was sketchy, though, because it seemed entirely based off quick analysis of numbers lynch wagon. That is the easiest place for a
  scum
  player to begin analyzing the game, so Toog might be
  scum
  . And he criticizes my analyzing methods consistently because why? Given I correctly got a
  scumflip
  d1, maybe drop that today.
  
  
• Toog completely neglected myloninja
  town
  wagon. Por que?
  Town
  wagon reasoning can be more telling IMO than
  scum
  wagon reasoning, on the surface, unless a player is clearly not
  scum
  based on sustained interactions that would be clearly
  scum
  suicide if two players were
  scum
  together. There was nothing
  scum
  suicide about titus vs. numbers. In fact, it did not even read natural to me, and my suspicion there has now proven correct. So idk out of all players on the numbers vote wagon, you had the highest confidence on titus being
  town
  and argued my
  scumread
  of Titus was "painting picassos", and how you continually stuck up for titus. IDK how you concluded Titus to be
  towniest
  , but clearly that was faulty.
  
  
• But right now i think toog is likelier to flip
  town
  than shiro, but both could be
  scum
  together imo. Maybe even with creature, or even tw.
  
  
  
• Shiro stated
  townread
  from cerb on toogeloo for something that did not look
  town-indicative
  to me at all, i remember, which was strange. I don't think anyone else iirc tr toogeloo off that evidence or anything else, which is even stranger. I think if it genuinely came from cerb, people would clearly sense that. But this does not seem real.
  
  
• I'm feeling a numbers-titus-shiro-creature-toogeloo
  scum
  team as a real possibility right now. Only after the titus flip did this entire connection make sense to me.
  
  
• Scum
  really didn't want a titus lynch, so i'm thinking (along with some slightly suss interactions with human sequencer and flipped
  scum
  and creature's growing lurkiness) that
  scum
  might have helped pile on a
  scum
  buddy who is MIA last minute in an effort to distract away from and avoid a titus lynch. Titus may have collapsed in the waning hours and self-voted due to another
  scum
  buddy being the clear counterwagon with only hours left in the day phase. Titus ran as main counterwagon to flipped
  scum
  in numbers anyway on D1, so why not do that again with 1 less
  scumplayer
  remaining in the game?
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• Now another thing that concerns me about shiro is why wouldn't
  town
  shiro detect and call into question the fact that titus switched from "
  scum
  " on D1 read of her to "
  town
  " read to her over literally nothing on D2 (when Titus was leader), and instead assess it as a possible pocketing attempt given how drastic and quickly formed the change was and that there wasn't like any posts or any sort of reasoning provided in the ISO of titus in between to account for the "
  town
  " read of shiro. And then titus gives a power to shiro? After being
  scum read
  by titus on D1. Why not at least question the change in her stance, even if her
  scum
  reasoning was jocular? That is hella sketchy to me. Oh, and ANKAMIUS had shiro in her sketchy section with Titus. Hmm, I wonder why. Shiro could have "confirmed" Ankamius as telling the truth about Titus, especially IF TITUS SURVIVED ANOTHER DAY and Shiro "CLEARED" titus. Clear
  scum
  gambit to me to
  townread
  the ever-living hell out of titus as a last-ditch effort to protect against her lynch, using cerb to advance it, and insist on Titus not getting lynched so heavily when instead you should have questioned the blatant discrepancy in reads of Titus between D1 and D2 on you with like no reason or further explanation attributed to it. Way to work a
  scum
  partner into your PR zone, Titus!
  
  
• Scum
  partner likely took place of ank--who was nk'd--in pr zone. This is an absolute given if shiro is
  scum
  with titus, as you would not nk someone and give them a power.
  
  
• Also, only 2 players getting powers--pushing that through cerb is ridiculously short-sighted and not something
  town
  would advocate like ever. So don't act like he did. FA's reaction to this was
  town
  as hell, and YOU KNOW IT. And yet you call me out for it because you don't want to admit it. For you to soon after throw out a
  confscum
  read on me through "Cerb" is so nutso to believe this stance is coming from
  town
  "Cerb". I would reckon he'd be more cautious with
  confscum
  reads than that.
  
  
• I literally did not even have a
  confscum
  read on Titus myself last day phase nor did anyone ever state a
  confscum
  read on anyone, so WTF IS "CERB'S" SUPPOSED CONFIDENCE ABOUT? What utter bullshit to try and force a
  town
  mislynch on me and thus save Titus. You basically had a
  conftown
  read on Titus, though you didn't explicitly state it, and wouldn't back up what game it was in when i asked you about when Titus had a poor vca as
  town
  (and some of your meta is hard to understand when i looked into it to try to confirn this myself in that you have played in weird anime games where you posted in but never assumed your actual account here and who was who was never stated anywhere; what a mindfuck). And supposedly cerb remembers this too? My ass; no other player in this game attested to that off memory. You wanted to try and prove Titus was
  town
  to solidify the chances of your faction making it further into the game by spirit mediuming ank to confirm power. How is this
  towny
  at all? I can't see the degree of this confidence push coming from
  town
  here.
  
  
• 937 from numbers looks like a faked reaction to me, and thus would support HS-
  scum
  , and thus the creature slot being
  scum
  . That and creature's iso is not that focused on playing
  towny
  . He didn't even have a vote down at EoD last day phase, so I suggest he is next push after Shiro.
  
  
• Both flipped
  scum
  had heavy and consistent regard for zmuffinman
  town
  . This might mean he is in fact
  town
  . Titus had stated a
  townread
  on sakura, who is pretty much
  locktown
  at this point.
  
  
• Shiro was also
  town
  from the reads list of numbers--the other flipped
  scum
  --without any reasoning ever stated for why. Just simply followed the flow there, after toranaga and others stated shiro was
  likely town
  d1.
  
  
• Also shiro blatantly was not getting all that information from cerb at the same time he posted it, as i brought attention to the fact that cerb was not even online, and yet shiro dished out a spamfest of information from him to distract away from a titus lynch. You should read this as utter distraction and not being anything else but that.

VOTE: Shiro, who is a very heavy scumread for me, but i do encourage this day phase to last at least 3-4 days.

TLDR; Shiro is the closest thing to lockscum for me. Nasty associatives with both flipped scum and a blatant spree of lies to save Titus last day phase (Cerb confscum reading me and scumreading Frozen Angel). I don't believe either of those pushes. I am more confident about Shiro being scum than I was about Titus last day phase. I can't see Shiro ever flipping town this game.

We should definitely lynch Shiro today. The scum team of numbers-titus-shiro might include possible additions of Creature, Toogeloo, TW, Kokichi, or Nos (although nos looks a little better to me now), and a few others to varying degrees. But mainly i am thinking creature and toogeloo are the other two that solve this game.

I'm also townblocking all of Frozen Angel, Toranaga, Mathblade, Sakura Hana, Sando, and Stungun. As long as we stick together here, and we continue to townblock cleverly outwards, we're a force to be reckoned with.

The townblock i created includes all 3 of the other players ank townblocked and i agree fully on now, and then sando and sakura added to the pool.

High degree of resistance, both unstated and expressed, to Titus lynchwagon suggests there is quite a bit of town on that wagon, for if scum bussed or lots of them followed on then securing that lynch should have been way easier.

Drixx is looking townish to me now, so maybe future addition to townblock? Idk.












The TLDR TLDR: Shiro is almost positively scum, and we are best off lynching her today.










Another pretty damning point. Shiro has been heavily active, but where the hell was she when we were organizing our votes last day phase. She never committed with us.

I find this to be really odd. I am getting LAMIST pings
Did you make a big case in everyone else or just Shiro?

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Unvote

I am not voting the dead guy phone messed up the quote.

[MathBlade]

The TLDR TLDR: Shiro is almost positively scum, and we are best off lynching her today.

You mean the person scum shot?

Stun gun posted the theory with the didn’t want to waste the work.

If I am town and I spent overnight casing someone as scum and scum shoot them, I go wtf?

I don’t instantly vote the next person I scumread.

What do you make of this Sakura?

[MathBlade]

^^ a lot of it is about shiro because his confscum read on me and everything else pointed me toward thinking he was scum. Why are you concerned about it being lamist-y? I very clearly, and if you read the case in depth, lucidly thought shiro was scum. Read the case first, then question it.

Actually
1) I don’t read things I know to be factually wrong in depth unless I need to refute it or am asked questions about it. Since Shiro is dead and confirmed town I don’t want to clutter my mind with useless stuff.

2) A case like that does nothing of the sort. It shows you took time which is not alignment indicative. Drixx and Cerb do big cases as scum. I hold a record for probably the most time posting straight through as scum. So effort doesn’t prove reads or alignment.

If anything it makes you worse since after seeing your pile of evidence is wrong you didn’t reevaluate. Instead you went for the next most scummiest on your reads.

[MathBlade]

The TLDR TLDR: Shiro is almost positively scum, and we are best off lynching her today.

You mean the person scum shot?

I thought so. I think sando is right that he was trying to be mislynch bait

Fuck. His play might screw me over. That's the probkem

Why are you concerned about his play screwing you individually? *eyebrow raised*

[MathBlade]

I'm going to reevaluate. The problem is i haven't had the damn time yet. Don't push this on me fifteen minutes after i realize i am wrong

I am pushing you not because you haven’t reevaluated yet, but because you instantly dropped a vote before you did.

I officially hate the Creature wagon. I want nothing to do with it.

[MathBlade]

The TLDR TLDR: Shiro is almost positively scum, and we are best off lynching her today.

You mean the person scum shot?

I thought so. I think sando is right that he was trying to be mislynch bait

Fuck. His play might screw me over. That's the probkem

Why are you concerned about his play screwing you individually? *eyebrow raised*

He had a CONFSCUM READ on me thru cerb. how does that not hurt me coming from a proven town player now?

Because
A) Cerb is a dead guy. He could be wrong on the read. No one is nor is expected to be perfect day one.

B)You’re missing the important part of the question individually. Right now we are ahead by a decent margin. Why are you concerned if you live or die? You’re not a PR you’re just a person.

[MathBlade]

Creature's probably scum tho.
His meta points to Creature scum, and me saying that Titus was busing Creature and she invoking her meta leads me to think that was her intention.

If this is true he never lives to lylo. I am 99.99999% sure of it.

I would much rather wagon people who were defending Titus and see who is the scum is there.

Titus meta is hella complex and she does wine on top of wine. The fact scum made me leader after Titus died is making me question everything.

[MathBlade]

I'm going to reevaluate. The problem is i haven't had the damn time yet. Don't push this on me fifteen minutes after i realize i am wrong

I am pushing you not because you haven’t reevaluated yet, but because you instantly dropped a vote before you did.

I officially hate the Creature wagon. I want nothing to do with it.

Why
Why not

Two votes to open the day saying it’s “Creature meta” despite a lot of people saying “Creature meta” for why Creature is town.
Combined with how Stun put a vote on Creature.

It just feels wrong.

Creature (4): zMuffinMan, the worst, Toogeloo, Toranaga

Katsuki (3): Shiro, hebichan, Kokichi Oma

I would rather see how these wagons formed.

If Creature is scum as you suggest I think scum would be on Creature for credit.
If Creature is town then likely there is a scum there as well to save Titus.

I kinda don’t know what to make of the Katsuki wagon though

But mainly I think a lynch in Muffin’s replacement, the worst, Toog, or UFO breaks this game open.

[MathBlade]

And yeah as math says, conf town does not equal confirmed right. It just means he's not trying to mislead us.

Sakura talk with me about the EoD wagons.

What do you think happened?

[MathBlade]

The timing of toogeloo's vote switch was super strange when i do not think he had shown up for a while

I wanna see what Toog comes back with after reading the game.

[MathBlade]

That is assuming he actually never read it as he claimed

[MathBlade]

Gahhh everyone is pinging me. I am just gonna take a nap and see where things go.

Based on how people react I think scum will become obvious.

[MathBlade]

I didn't use phasing last night

the remaining scum killed shiro cause he could talk with ank today maybe

if true then no scum has power negation to just disable shiro it seems

Actually shiro kill looks odd af from mechanical perspective. This is the third time scum killed a person who could go with bp/protective.

I am guessing scum have some sort of factional ability that either helps with killing or a roleblock or something. I agree it is odd. So it means scum either are good at reading wine or have a factional ability to help them out.

[MathBlade]

And darnit that took over 30 minutes to edit between a shitty new tablet i've been using and having to switch to my phone. The tablet kept copying and pasting the entire list over and over again.

Will look at that later tonight/tomorrow.

[MathBlade]

Well yeah, theres no way that titus didn't give scum abilities.

I don’t see that as a thing.

Titus was forced to work off a list we agreed to. She especially dreaded giving me powers and I think was trying to keep up appearances. Depending upon what factional abilities scum have she could have easily given it to all town in order to get us to focus there instead of lurkers. Her day end wine of claiming 11v1 is also odd. I think it was designed to make sure we didn’t look at her defenders. Titus is good scum but also arrogant scum. If she thought giving town all power would let her coast she would do it in a heartbeat.

[MathBlade]

I can only imagine the amount of BS flying around if Shiro were alive and had been negated...I imagine scum would see the same potential, so if scum had it I'd say it was Titus that had that power.

Titus cannot have Power Negate unless Math is scum, both confirmed to each other to have precog

Correct.

I can also use my precog again since I won’t die tonight if it helps clear some things up for people.
Since I couldn’t actually use protection and Titus almost wasn’t lynched I actually took petrification. I am very rarely ever a nightkill so I figured it’s a safe bet since I am regarded as dumb.

Since it’s 9v9 for leader votes as per the plan I guess if it’s between me or Sakura then scum picked me?

[MathBlade]

Creature's probably scum tho.
His meta points to Creature scum, and me saying that Titus was busing Creature and she invoking her meta leads me to think that was her intention.

If this is true he never lives to lylo. I am 99.99999% sure of it.

I would much rather wagon people who were defending Titus and see who is the scum is there.

Titus meta is hella complex and she does wine on top of wine. The fact scum made me leader after Titus died is making me question everything.

I alluded to it here. Hence why I would rather lynch someone other than Creature. If Creature is lurking scum I can take care of him tonight or tomorrow night. If scum have some factional way to save Creature then they have to focus it on the “idiot” who just happened to be right about Titus being scum.

It’s much more in our interests to lynch elsewhere imho and among Titus’s defenders imho.

[MathBlade]

I can only imagine the amount of BS flying around if Shiro were alive and had been negated...I imagine scum would see the same potential, so if scum had it I'd say it was Titus that had that power.

Titus cannot have Power Negate unless Math is scum, both confirmed to each other to have precog

Scum have daychat, Titus could have given powers to another person who picked up precog and was feeding info through scumchat.

This just isn’t a thing lol.

I can confirm I have precog if this is really a paranoia people have especially since I can’t be killed tonight if we lynch (which we should). Titus pretty much knew what power I would take if put up so she used me to try to “townfirm” her and flipped her shit when I didn’t I only confirmed she used the ability. She said she would be “townfirmed” by Ank which again made no sense. Her plans were about making her look good.

The way Titus shaded me means I think I can figure out which gambit she was running or she tried to slander me hard because I generally have a bias towards scumreading her.

[MathBlade]

I'm going to reevaluate. The problem is i haven't had the damn time yet. Don't push this on me fifteen minutes after i realize i am wrong

I am pushing you not because you haven’t reevaluated yet, but because you instantly dropped a vote before you did.

I officially hate the Creature wagon. I want nothing to do with it.

Took me a second to put my finger on it but this.

Takes the time to do a bunch of work and then posts it to ... prove ... what? No re-evaluation and no real sign of anywhere near that for the Critter vote.

@drixx you confirm that?

Yep. I didn't see a better option and thought that Titus badly misplayed her hand as scum sacrifice to get powers to her team. Town!Titus would never have left me out of the pool while openly town reading me. She would have been way more likely to give me a choice but check what I did with it (if she had any doubts), or just trust me to do the right thing (would have done SM I think, if I have the choices for that night correct).

I agree with this. However, as weird as this sounds I think she gave Ank powers.

Let’s assume the converse. With Titus going down it’s highly unlikely barring factional powers scum know what is coming up. So unless they have a factional precog I doubt Titus gives powers to anyone but Ank. There could be a cop that determines abilities or a historian that figures out who got powers what night. Titus being a meticulous planner would absolutely be driven apeshit by this and likely does give Ank powers.

The Shiro kill therefore was out of necessity because of his power not because of who he could connect to.

[MathBlade]

hmm yeah did Titus claim her team?

Yes her team was: FA, Math, Nancy, Shiro, Ank and herself, Ank also died that night so it's unconfirmed and since Titus was scum it's very unlikely that she did get any power.

eeehhh yeah so unless {Math, Nancy} contains scum the Ank thing was just a lie

if there is scum in those 2 then there's a small chance of a wildcard other scumfuck who has a power and is being set up to avoid suspicion but IDK I'm just talking out of my ass

I mean I understand the idea behind it but I just don’t see it followed through.

If Titus gives powers to someone other than Ank and she somehow lived to tell the tale of NOT getting a power not only does Titus put herself as scum she damn near townfirms everyone else. Day two/three was trying to townfirm Titus. Scum Titus wouldn’t risk it all on two gambles. One on Ank living and one on a future cop that could instantly out the scum she gave it to instead of Ank. Titus made the days about her and got burned for it.

[MathBlade]

I can only imagine the amount of BS flying around if Shiro were alive and had been negated...I imagine scum would see the same potential, so if scum had it I'd say it was Titus that had that power.

Titus cannot have Power Negate unless Math is scum, both confirmed to each other to have precog

Scum have daychat, Titus could have given powers to another person who picked up precog and was feeding info through scumchat.

This just isn’t a thing lol.

I can confirm I have precog if this is really a paranoia people have especially since I can’t be killed tonight if we lynch (which we should). Titus pretty much knew what power I would take if put up so she used me to try to “townfirm” her and flipped her shit when I didn’t I only confirmed she used the ability. She said she would be “townfirmed” by Ank which again made no sense. Her plans were about making her look good.

The way Titus shaded me means I think I can figure out which gambit she was running or she tried to slander me hard because I generally have a bias towards scumreading her.

Ok seriously, after 3 days of being told I'm a moron for mechanical talk despite calling Titus scum D1 because of it, can we please take a moment to actually consider what's being said?

I'm NOT saying it was YOU feeding Titus info. I'm saying that Titus could have not given Ank powers as claimed and instead given person X powers instead. Person X could then take Precog and have given Titus the precog outcomes to her in the scumchat. This means that there's not guarantee that Titus had precog just because you confirmed she knew the precog'd powers.

I was in no way speculating that it is you that is scum feeding her info. It's an option, but no more of an option than 90% of the playerbase imo.

It’s also way too risky a scum move for Titus to make. She’d also be sacrificing herself for a player who has precog? If I am scum here I take a power negate or some of the other juicier powers that have come along. Plus potentially exposing that person to a risk while UFO is a power mimicry dude? This just makes him a cop now. I just don’t see Titus risking that and instead tried to manipulate me and failed hard.

[MathBlade]

I didn't vote anyone for lead last night. Didn't read the game either, but technically speaking I didn't specify when I was going to read it. Safest lynch today is me tbqh. Get me out now before I become a mislynch later. I'm not going to get power or be elected leader, like ever, which basically makes me a Vanilla, and I'm not putting in enough effort to really be a useful Vanilla even.

VOTE: Toog

I am okay with this lynch because Toog made a promise and didn’t follow through with it. The lawyerese speak reeks of Titus coaching. While technically true it’s something my sister has said to me in strategy/deception games numerous times. It’s like trying to dodge the lynch 101. And if Toog is town it does provide analysis towards the day end events to find scum. I think it’s a scum ploy to avoid the wagon.

[MathBlade]

Oh yeah and obviously I voted for Sakura. Lol I figured that was obvious.

[MathBlade]

Someone help out my paranoia:

Someone please tell me Frozen Angel didn’t pick up Power Negation. Like she does phasing N1 to deflect cop checks off her then picks up power negate to make kills easier. Like that’s where my moonlogic side is going atm. Especially with the Shiro kill. Ugh. Like help?

[MathBlade]

Just find a vig and shoot me

Uhmmm I am gonna take this as sarcasm. Lol. I think you mean this as sarcasm. For my sanity can you confirm you didn’t take negation? Oh btw how did your test of Nancy go?

[MathBlade]

I mean that as "how do you want me to respond to you?" there are 2 billion things saying I'm town.

if I wanted phasing for a possible cop dodge I wouldn't do any action n1.

I did indeed power negation night 2. I picked it thinking it was a full jailkeep and that I can use it on later days. when people mentioned it will only block ability powers I was shocked and I asked mod ten thousend questions about how it could work. I'm thinking maybe it might be usefull later but if not then I didn't waste any good ability from n2.

I used a healing touch on you last night. I actually randomized it between shiro and you1

There are a lot of things saying you're town. There's a few things that are causing me to wonder. Like I'm just trying to figure out the you / Shiro fighting in light of the fact Shiro flipped town. I'm also trying to figure out why scum would want me leader over Sakura or if they left it a coin toss. But a coin toss doesn't seem like a Titus! scum thing, but then again she's dead.

@Sando -- I wouldn't if I was scum for a couple of reasons but A) I'm not scum and B) I'm really trying hard not to moonlogic right now and going down the rabbit hole of what I would do as scum is something Sakura asked me NOT to do so with all due respect I'm not going to go into why unless you press the matter.

[MathBlade]

There's also all the damn kills of the people who could have easily taken a BP or phasing and used it but seemingly didn't.

[MathBlade]

And Titus specifically wanted Ank to "rein me in" then kills her. Now I am seriously wondering if the Ank kill was meant to dissuade me from going moon logicky or if it's meant to actually be done because scum are trying to discredit any moon logicky theory I come up with.

@Drixx....Bring me back to sanity please...Like my moonlogicky ness is starting to make sense to me in my head. IMHO this is bad.

Pedit: You did. I'm just trying to figure out what Titus's plan is here like...Titus is a planner. What she did seems dumb? Did she try to moonlogic as scum or something?

[MathBlade]

Gah my head hurts let's just talk Titus defenders fuck because there's gotta be scum there.

Pedit yeah....Mainly I'm just like what the fuck was Titus up to?

[MathBlade]

the night they killed ank titus was leader. titus could give power to a third person and kill ank with it. that person can still have power negate and decided to finish of shiro cause of medium

Again, yes, that is possible, but for reasons I stated I doubt it.

Powers could come up that say "Reveal superpower team on Night 2." or another power like Power Mimicry (which I am not 100% sure I buy that UFO just forgets to submit anything like ever.) that acts as a universal cop of the lurkers. I don't think scum!Titus puts people at risk like that unless she was 100% sure she could get townfirmed and convinced her lurker buddies to go along with it. It's definitely not something I would see a lot of people do as scum.

[MathBlade]

for that to work they risked ank getting mediumed which would out titus or they thought the people with medium will out themself and they can kill them all in time which seems ridiculous.

or nancy is the scum in titus list who got power negate and used it for scum team in titus behalf

Yeah both those seem ridiculous too lol.

So it looks like in the words of all things ridiculous Titus giving scum to a buddy is actually the least ridiculous of the ridiculous. Like just why?

[MathBlade]

a power of "Reveal superpower team on Night 2" is ridiculously dumb and nearly bastard and mechanically stupid.

It's punishing the scum team for doing some high level manipulation.

I highly doubt something like that ever exists in this game.

And yeah power mimic would be a guilty if it was used on someone we would'nt expect to see their powers and they somehow magically had something but I doubt scum would actually worry about that if they wanted to some sirious manipulations with power teams/ do something bold like forcefully taking power negation by a fifth disguised member. the reward of such move was way higher and the risk of being discovered by an out of nowhere power mimic

LOL I've seen worse. *flashes back to Shadowrun*

Like Titus put in a cop as a reward to the mission and so while I was being obvTown and manipulating BaeReed I then had to get the cop check off Scout and then have it land on the traitor I had to kill because town gave me a gun. I was literally punished for actually doing my job as scum.

Until I know what powers come up I wouldn't discount anything. But yeah it's probably just more paranoia.

So let's go with the assumption Ank never received powers, who would Titus give powers to?

Pedit: Fair enough. And scum couldn't risk Ank actually screaming out "Hey I have no powers".

Okay I'm sold so who would Titus give a power to that is a lurker. IMHO not Creature because he's got a target on his back at the end of Day Three. I'm thinking Toog or the worst or maybe UFO?

Pedit: Agreed.

[MathBlade]

Okay I'm sold so who would Titus give a power to that is a lurker. IMHO not Creature because he's got a target on his back at the end of Day Three. I'm thinking Toog or the worst or maybe UFO?

This is like a ghost hunt cause titus wouldn't choose who she wanted to give power to. it was her teammate so she had limited choices in first place. I don't think we can find scum by spinning the chess board here

I don't see Titus actively imploding on her buddy who could have gotten lynched instead of her. Scum Titus already bussed 123456789 on day one. Redirecting the lynch onto Creature if scum without powers is just bad but if he would be scum with powers is just even worse. If that went through that's like saving your right foot by cutting off your left leg.

In regards to you UFO you were saying it sure. However on Day Three when it mattered you waffled on Titus if memory serves and weren't voting Titus. What good are reads if you don't actually follow through with them? I don't take into factor your day one pushes for that reason. Your day one play is remarkably different. If anything it contributes to the narrative Titus was trying to sell and you could naturally change your mind. I don't think Titus anticipated being wagoned on day three like she was and got angry because of it.

[MathBlade]

Successfully*

[MathBlade]

Furthermore, if we go with the assumption the town block is genuine as IMHO it is, then we'd want someone who wasn't going to get lynched in two seconds flat. In other words
123456789 and Titus are both confirmed scum. We'd look for someone in the powerless who has staying power. If I'm Titus and don't give power to Ank, that's where I go. And that in no way shape or form is Creature. Between that and how Titus acted end of D3 and how today started, I'm strongly thinking Creature is a mislynch.

[MathBlade]

So working from this list

Creature

-- Likely mislynch

Drixx

-- Was left off the list per Titus's claims but moonlogicky possible on N2 but I doubt it

Frozen Angel

-- on the list
Gamma Emerald
hebichan
Katsuki
Kokichi Oma

MathBlade
Nancy Drew 39

-- Both of us on the list
Nosferatu

Sakura Hana

Sando
stungun0404
Theta Alpine
the worst
Toogeloo
Toranaga

So someone in this list

Mafiascum is super slow for me atm so I'm gonna be back later and hopefully it's better.

[MathBlade]

So working from this list

Creature

-- Likely mislynch

Drixx

-- Was left off the list per Titus's claims but moonlogicky possible on N2 but I doubt it

Frozen Angel

-- on the list
Gamma Emerald
hebichan
Katsuki
Kokichi Oma

MathBlade
Nancy Drew 39

-- Both of us on the list
Nosferatu

Sakura Hana

Sando
stungun0404
Theta Alpine
the worst
Toogeloo
Toranaga

So someone in this list

Mafiascum is super slow for me atm so I'm gonna be back later and hopefully it's better.

So your reasoning for FA being wrong about it being a crapshoot to work out the person Titus gave powers to instead of Ank is to make a list of the alive people that weren't in the Titus list and also remove Creature because of mislynch potential?

FA - If I had a gun and 2 bullets you could have one.

No. I actually came around to the idea of Titus giving a buddy powers

But now it’s a matter of which.

One scum is dead. You count as one. That means she has at least two options.

Picking the guy you’re gonna suggest as a mislynch seems dumb. Like the whole foot analogy before.

[MathBlade]

So working from this list

Creature

-- Likely mislynch

Drixx

-- Was left off the list per Titus's claims but moonlogicky possible on N2 but I doubt it

Frozen Angel

-- on the list
Gamma Emerald
hebichan
Katsuki
Kokichi Oma

MathBlade
Nancy Drew 39

-- Both of us on the list
Nosferatu

Sakura Hana

Sando
stungun0404
Theta Alpine
the worst
Toogeloo
Toranaga

So someone in this list

Mafiascum is super slow for me atm so I'm gonna be back later and hopefully it's better.

So your reasoning for FA being wrong about it being a crapshoot to work out the person Titus gave powers to instead of Ank is to make a list of the alive people that weren't in the Titus list and also remove Creature because of mislynch potential?

FA - If I had a gun and 2 bullets you could have one.

No. I actually came around to the idea of Titus giving a buddy powers

But now it’s a matter of which.

One scum is dead. You (being Titus) count as one. That means she has at least two options.

Picking the guy you’re gonna suggest as a mislynch seems dumb. Like the whole foot analogy before.

Edited for clarity

[MathBlade]

Someone help out my paranoia:

Someone please tell me Frozen Angel didn’t pick up Power Negation. Like she does phasing N1 to deflect cop checks off her then picks up power negate to make kills easier. Like that’s where my moonlogic side is going atm. Especially with the Shiro kill. Ugh. Like help?

Mathblade I got u a present

Spoiler: your present

FA didn't pick power negation
FA is 85% town here

85%?

FA and titus interactions on d1 makes FA a villager 99% of the time imo

also how do you know she didn't pick power negation? just wondering.

?? She said she did

And why 99% of the time?

This is fucking Titus we are talking here.

[MathBlade]

I picked power negation night 2. Haven't used it so far though.

and also yeah fair point math. I think the people titus suggested strongly and pushed strongly yesterday and the day before are not the ones she gave power negation too if any yep

Mainly I think any power here is more the point. Maybe negate maybe not.

But I think we need to focus on the people in the not crossed off list first. The scum with power(s) are the biggest threats.

@UFO I just kinda see your scum meta. Until I see town you I just am not convinced day one is not theater. I kinda think Toog is more likely than you but calling me unable to read you is not gonna magically convince me you’re town.

[MathBlade]

Furthermore, if we go with the assumption the town block is genuine as IMHO it is

What's the townblock rn?

Anyone who has claimed to have a power as of this post.

[MathBlade]

I'm sorry Mathblade my present to you was made of bad assumptions. still friends?

Friends outside of game, sure

Still in my scumpool yep!

[MathBlade]

Furthermore, if we go with the assumption the town block is genuine as IMHO it is

What's the townblock rn?

Anyone who has claimed to have a power as of this post.

Thaaanks for the help

Is that sarcastic?

Glad you’re back. How much have you read?

[MathBlade]

are both Titus and FA obscenely good scum btw?

I like to say they're readable.

^

no offense @FA

titus is easier I feel. she hasn't really ever fooled me as scum afaict.

non taken

I used to do degenerate things to avoid being a scum read before. I dropped those things. I still want to believe my scum game is decent and way above average - at least considering my nearly 100% win rate as scum in past 2 years.

Which is why I am paranoid
Because Titus thinks crazy things help her win and sometimes she is right. Other times reading the post game where she gets bitter over something false is just ewww.

[MathBlade]

I'm tryna post thoughts as I have them rather than reading thru 10 pages getting to the end and being like "OH HOLY FUCK GOD NO MY EYES" I hope that's acceptable

Just sayin', I'm keeping up and engaging in lots of things, whilst also posting why you're scum. Kinda the opposite of a tunnel, where I would ignore everything to get you killed. No hard feelings, I know you fucked up yesterday and this is just what you gotta do, discredit everything I do and say against you as tunnelling. To be fair, town are bad enough here to buy it, all power to ya.

Succinctly what is your worst case again?

I figure y’all put up with my “Titus is scum” screaming and worst is in my scum pool. Sell me he is more likely than Toog

[MathBlade]

Someone help out my paranoia:

Someone please tell me Frozen Angel didn’t pick up Power Negation. Like she does phasing N1 to deflect cop checks off her then picks up power negate to make kills easier. Like that’s where my moonlogic side is going atm. Especially with the Shiro kill. Ugh. Like help?

Mathblade I got u a present

Spoiler: your present

FA didn't pick power negation
FA is 85% town here

85%?

FA and titus interactions on d1 makes FA a villager 99% of the time imo

also how do you know she didn't pick power negation? just wondering.

?? She said she did

And why 99% of the time?

This is fucking Titus we are talking here.

I mean from FA side

btw math I love playing with you and you're much better than me at 80% of the game, but you're kinda tone deaf and I hope you realise that weakness cause you're actually scum leaning me and suspicious of FA which are both horrifically bad reads

Again...
I am paranoid of a possible FA world but she is still in the townblock as evidenced by my reply to Creature. It’s more I just wanna shut that part of my brain up.

And well I am? Like how is that wrong? Can someone else without meta explain the UFO townread?

[MathBlade]

what do we think of toogeloo? I have no idea what the thread consensus on them is and maybe we should go back to bbmolla's d2 outing that he actually picked titus as leader as something maybe resolvable tbh

My vote is there.
@Sando let me take some time to stew over that.

[MathBlade]

Well yeah, theres no way that titus didn't give scum abilities.

I don’t see that as a thing.

Titus was forced to work off a list we agreed to. She especially dreaded giving me powers and I think was trying to keep up appearances. Depending upon what factional abilities scum have she could have easily given it to all town in order to get us to focus there instead of lurkers. Her day end wine of claiming 11v1 is also odd. I think it was designed to make sure we didn’t look at her defenders. Titus is good scum but also arrogant scum. If she thought giving town all power would let her coast she would do it in a heartbeat.

Kind of obligatory to mention this because my gut is pinging me.

The current situation seems very much like something Titus and You might have cooked up as scum together. She knows she's doomed and you replace in and immediately point out all of the valid reasons not to scum read me at that time when there was a jank wagon on me. Obviously this is good to me in two ways: you got it right and you had logical reasoning for getting it right. Meanwhile you and Titus have your normal sniping ... but maybe not up to the usual levels of nastiness. She also does her normal thing where she is irrational towards me.

This just feels too neat.

Disclaimer: For those of you who get all wild about me dumping an initial theory into the game ... I'm not even to FoS with Math yet. Just my gut says something is off. I'll be doing as much re-reading as I can spare and if I find some reason to bring this up again, it will be much more detailed. If I don't ... I don't.

But ... before you go all half cocked on me ... maybe think about it and see what your gut says. I don't particularly care for meta as a general rule and much of this has to do with my prior experience with the players involved so there's that.


Reminder: It's Sunday. I'm stupidly busy on Sunday. I'll keep up as I can.

I mean I can understand why you’d have that FoS.

However we do have two games where we were scum together one where I bussed Titus/RC hydra and one where I didn’t.

I think Titus tried to do something and her arrogance got the better of her.

As stated before if that’s really a problem I can just precog today to demonstrate I did pick it and we can discuss this more in detail if it would help you.

Mainly you’re a big sanity check for me and if my sanity check thinks I could be/am scum that is kinda a problem lol

[MathBlade]

Well not an FoS a suggestion a paranoia whatever you wanna call it

[MathBlade]

anyone trusting me enough to go me/fa as leader votes today?

Nope. I am not gonna suggest people I am paranoid of as leader choices.

[MathBlade]

Especially with how much resistance there was to the titus wagon

I have and right now instead of scum you are null, mainly I want to find the scum in the Titus defenders since there has to be one there. You I could see flipping either way but you’re just not as likely as other people.

[MathBlade]

viewtopic.php?p=9766218#p9766218

From the game when we were scum together and I bussed her. The interactions themselves aren’t what matter. What matters is the why? Until I figure out Titus’s narrative shit like that is NAI.

[MathBlade]

Full disclosure that is an RC/Titus hydra Radiant Moonlight

[MathBlade]

There is no way fa is scum here. There are several things that would not make a damn bit of sense

Why would she directly be the one against having only 2 people have powers when shiro suggested that last day phase?

Let us not get paranoid about fa being scum. She is 100 percent town imo at this point.

Bussing badly. It is a hallmark of some of my scum games. Titus does it too just less often. And Titus is Titus. Literally anything is possible with her being scum.

[MathBlade]

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=60178

An example of bussing badly. People were saying there was no way we were scum together.

[MathBlade]

I did not get that "anything is possible" vibe from reviewing some of her scum games. What makes you think that?

She is my RL sister (don’t live in the same house) I have played years of face to face mafia and forum mafia on multiple sites. It’s like uncanny the schemes she comes up with.

[MathBlade]

@UFO why didn’t you target Shiro?

[MathBlade]

@UFO why didn’t you target Shiro?

cause I believed shiro

why would I target shiro? that sounds really silly

To get his medium power.

[MathBlade]

that would have been a great idea

I am just wondering why UFO wasn’t doing that. He supposedly didn’t use his power N2 and then on N3 he uses it on someone very likely to take BP. Like ewww. Could he have used a factional instead on N2?

If this is “Confirm me because of my powers” gambit part two I am gonna be disappointed UFO

[MathBlade]

Furthermore Drixx was in no way sketchy.

[MathBlade]

a player can use factional and super powers in same night:

9. Unless otherwise specified, players may only use one Superpower per Night Phase. For Aspiring Villains, this is in addition to any factional abilities they may have (including their factional nightkill).
10. Factional Abilities for the Aspiring Villains are not treated as Superpowers.

Derp

Then still why nothing N2? I am having trouble thinking of a town reason to not do it.

[MathBlade]

Furthermore Drixx was in no way sketchy.

well he was for a decent portion of the thread

I think nancy would have been a better mimic target tbh. She wasn't the topic enough and is just coasting and getting powers by me cause she looks cute :/ It's the day we should resolve her/talk about her more imo.

Also the day 1 was trog town meta 100%. his last minute protectiveness of titus is making me a little bit worried though. one thing about trog is that he over protects his scum mates. Like even if he wants to force that through he will.

No. He wasn’t lol

I guess for the ufo bit but it doesn’t sit right.

And regarding Nancy I agree. Just I am a bit confused on something

[MathBlade]

Leaders can choose 5 people with them a total of 6

I have nancy in my list too

I was thinking about rechecking the slot.

With the powers you have chosen how would you recheck the slot?

[MathBlade]

I can see a team like toog katsuki and nancy remaining.

Maybe kokichi, nosfertu

the worst

idk. I actually think toog/katsuki has a definite scum in it

I am pretty sure Nancy is town and this is just paranoia FA.

[MathBlade]

I was short on my fifth pick back then.

I was thinking about isoing nancy to choose her as fifth. I asked several people about their reads on her

I did skim read her and she just sounds pure af so i went with it

Pure as fuck generally (but not always) is town. What makes you suspicious of her?

[MathBlade]

Mathblade, you would know this as well as anybody. Is it a mistake for me to base many reads off titus associatives?

It is mostly a mistake until you figure out Titus’s narrative.

Titus didn’t completely abandon the plan so it’s likely she tried to survive the day. This means that when she was dying bussing an ally with powers would be silly. So Creature is likely vanilla town.

It’s mainly about starting from truth and working from there
Rather than Titus pushed X therefore X is town

[MathBlade]

It's okay, after Titus flips scum it'll be very telling if Shiro DOES link her.

She won't, I am pretty certain if that.

Shiro, if scum kills you you won’t get to spirit link ANYONE ELSE in the game.

You’re seriously not risking your life for Titus, are you?

Reasons Nancy is town
1) Her high post count. Nancy if memory serves said she hasn’t drawn scum tend to be a bit less posty and chatty because they back themselves into a corner
2) She advocated for Shiro to BP himself. It seems like a really odd post to do if scum “Hey person we’re gonna kill please put on a bulletproof vest” if Nancy had power negation and was scum this would be irrelevant as the night action would have to resolve so Nancy as scum gains nothing by doing this
3) As you put it her genuiness

For starters

[MathBlade]

Creature could be scum without a power though, as titus was scum WITH a power. so i would not say creature cannot be scum here

I don’t find that very likely. Not only is Creature townpinging while here (and he is an easy meta read) he didn’t try to stop the Titus lynches and he seems more concerned with catching up and getting reads than attacking anyone.

[MathBlade]

I never saw nancy scum but this is way more purer than her last town game I saw. i admit. I really want to know what did she do night 2.

As do I but there is no reason to attach the could be scum in order to obtain it.

[MathBlade]

I picked power negation night 2. Haven't used it so far though.

and also yeah fair point math. I think the people titus suggested strongly and pushed strongly yesterday and the day before are not the ones she gave power negation too if any yep

Can you tell me why you didn’t use this?

Something is pinging me about your power statements.

[MathBlade]

Especially with your whole “power negation” talks before.

[MathBlade]

Ok so I got a permise wrong. As long as a scum has power negation even phasing won't redirect the kill cause in NAR:

Copy
Hide
Bus Drive
Block
Redirect
Protect
Miscellaneous
Kill
Recruit
Inspect

block is above the redirect for some reason.

Uhmmm

Wouldn’t phasing just not work at all?

Because of the posts you quoted. The scum kill would be a factional ability right? So I don’t see how you can have it both ways here.

[MathBlade]

what do you mean first dibs?

idk actually. Anybody can choose any power i take it? I have not read up on that entirely because i have not had any serious reason to as of yet

Anyone selected can take any power on the list.

[MathBlade]

If I was the intended target and I was not power negated I would redirect the kill to sando cause of phasing.

But again...

This wouldn’t actually direct the night kill right?

Based on The Dream Weaver’s stuff you posted?

[MathBlade]

a player can use factional and super powers in same night:

9. Unless otherwise specified, players may only use one Superpower per Night Phase. For Aspiring Villains, this is in addition to any factional abilities they may have (including their factional nightkill).
10. Factional Abilities for the Aspiring Villains are not treated as Superpowers.

[MathBlade]

Yay more me derp /sarcasm

[MathBlade]

Let me rephrase that. How would that work?

It would.

I had it down in my notes as superpowers. /sigh

[MathBlade]

So working from this list

Creature

-- Likely mislynch

Drixx

-- Was left off the list per Titus's claims but moonlogicky possible on N2 but I doubt it

Frozen Angel

-- on the list
Gamma Emerald
hebichan
Katsuki
Kokichi Oma

MathBlade
Nancy Drew 39

-- Both of us on the list
Nosferatu

Sakura Hana

Sando
stungun0404
Theta Alpine
the worst
Toogeloo
Toranaga

So someone in this list

Mafiascum is super slow for me atm so I'm gonna be back later and hopefully it's better.

IMHO I would remove sando and possibly toranaga from today's lynch pool entirely. Sando is a very likely mislynch. if you think creature was then surely you can glean that too

I believe sando was much more of a mislynch than creature, at least basing off the content of their posts

On Sando, I could see a bad bus scenario because there was time to change. However I do find the odds of that so remote as to take him out of the lynchpool today. Toranaga stays though. He is pinging me hard core.

[MathBlade]

On Sando, I could see a bad bus scenario because there was time to change. However I do find the odds of that so remote as to take him out of the lynchpool today. Toranaga stays though. He is pinging me hard core.

for absolutely no reason btw

everyone else is locktowning me and you're wrong and have no case

1) I do have a case.
A) Your power selection is shit
B) Your Titus interactions are sketchy AF.

2) So what everyone else is locktowning you? If that actually made people town then almost all of my recently completed scum games were bastard because I was scum in the scum PT and the mod said post game I was scum. I had to be town those games though. I form reads and ask for sanity checks of the arguments. If the arguments hold the read holds. The only thing countering my points is you were in another game and that doesn’t mean a buddy didn’t submit something for you even if true. So since no one has destroyed the argument it stands.

[MathBlade]

Power action usage selection* lol cant type

[MathBlade]

FA, check #205 by titus. I find the flat out assumption that scum coordinated their votes to you strange. also her entire ISO is just these mechanical talking points that aren't solid towny thoughts.

Hi. I don't think we've met. I'm the queen of votes and mechanics. I detest d1 because there is little of either. D1 is people trying to puff up themselves.

hey it's your boy ufo. I thought you knew who I am on MS.

Mainly this post here and others similar.

Titus being a strategic person could have went “oh ufo is here” and didn’t. Like there is like almost no familiarity even after wards. It’s like Titus went out of her way to not be familiar with you.

[MathBlade]

Even with a smaller number a biased opinion is nearly always equal or better to a random pick.

This is true only if information present. D1 has no valid info. Only egos. D1 selections are nothing more than who is effective at buddying.

it took me a while to get there but I finally understand what your point of view is. I'm positive you are wrong, though. most good players, and especially frozen angel, can parse out the game enough to have >rand reads and select her players accordingly.

I still don't understand other parts of your posting but I hope we can find each other in this game rather soon if you're town here.

Titus’s idea was stupid.
Logically clear but stupid.

This whole “if you’re town here” reads like “quit digging a hole you silly scumbuddy”

[MathBlade]

I got no results on drixx which... yeah he was never on anyone's PR list

I just thought it was alright to check it cause maybe drixx is scum due to association with titus

drixx used impenetrable skin last night apparently, since I got a one shot use of it.

Hm? I recall drixx being on the n2 list.

Nope Titus removed him.

[MathBlade]

Well we can negate power negation now.
I asked the mod Super Strength bypasses Power Negation.

Well we can negate Power Negation if FA is town. As she most likely is I think we can but cannot 100% remove it.

[MathBlade]

Well we can negate power negation now.
I asked the mod Super Strength bypasses Power Negation.

Well we can negate Power Negation if FA is town. As she most likely is I think we can but cannot 100% remove it.

And Nancy too assuming she didn’t take it

[MathBlade]

Btw, since im trying to finish LM2, I may dissapear for half of this day phase more or less, considering the rate at which new pages are added, i woke up and had a bunch of stuff to read that i didnt finish and went off to play LM2, instead, and just now finished catching up.

I have a work project picking up steam so I might end up with radically less time to post as a heads up.

[MathBlade]

So my thinking is, scum should definitely have a way to bypass the impenetrable skin ability.
At this point, if everyone who is town and alive and has impenetrable skin (at least 4) gets super strength, scum cannot win, coz they cant kill them aside well... from lynching them.
Super Strength may strongman a factional kill tho.

P-Edit: What i mean is that if you use super strength at the same time as a superpower not even power negate on you (or your target) can prevent you from succesfully activating the ability.

Oh god this could end up Comic-Con esque what happens when a super strength power negate or super strength strongman meets a super strength BP?

[MathBlade]

Immovable force meets an immovable object which one wins.

[MathBlade]

The Blade that can cut through any shield.
The Shield that can withstand any weapon.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit ... =undefined

[MathBlade]

But nah explanation is simple
Power Negate is not actually negated just ignored/bypassed, so it still fires and cannot be modified in any way because it's super strengthened.
But the Super Strength BP ignores it and fires off anyway as well.

Power negate isnt blocked, actions targeting YOUR target will still fail, but your target's action will not coz they super strengthened.

As for the strongman nightkill with Super Strength, well same theory applies, your BP fires up anyway, but the super strength ignores it, if another source would kill you it still is blocked even tho you die from the original source anyway.

That's my assumption of how it would work.

Super Strength prevents ur action from being modified or blocked, but Super Strength technically doesnt block or modify power negate it just ignores it.

I don’t like assumptions I am asking the mod.

Pretty sure the setup wouldn’t allow for infinite town blocks like this. There has to be something missing.

[MathBlade]

anyone trusting me enough to go me/fa as leader votes today?

yes i am cool with this

i would like some superpower at some point in this game because staying vanilla when you are trying your hardest as town is kind of frustrating when there is so many powers available

Ugh. Like i can prove that i would never put the kind of effort i have put into this game into a scum game. I have nearly 400 posts i think. The most i have ever had in a scum game is 100 something. The most i have had in a town game is over 600. And i have 4 scum games to date

Effort != Alignment

[MathBlade]

I am lurkier as scum in general, so for me it does.

Then as scum you’d have to fix it or you’d have to try to fix it or you’d have a trust tell. So I don’t pay attention to self meta.

[MathBlade]

"Any actions you take this Night Phase cannot be blocked or manipulated." so a doctor or a roleblock (which we don't even have as power negate can't stop the factional) would always fail against the kill that was with SS

Yes. Super strength power negate that cannot be blocked or manipulated
Against super strength BP which cannot be blocked or negated.

Whichever one wins the other is necessarily false.

[MathBlade]

So if the BP fires off then the power negate was blocked or manipulated. Therefore BP takes precedence. If the power negate was not stopped then the BP doesn’t fire thus making the BP action blocked or manipulated.

Either way it’s unmovable force problem.

[MathBlade]

there is a loophole between actions and power negate yeah

a super strength bp is a bp that always will be activated

a super strength power negate is a blocking action that will always go through

same for all other abilities.

For factional kill and anything else there are no loopholes cause

a super strength kill - is a kill that will always go through.

a super strength heal or block can't be stopped from triggering but can get bypassed by a non stopable kill. so there are no loopholes there.

Yay more fun immovable force problems.

Strongman kill meets strongman BP lolz.

[MathBlade]

there is a loophole between actions and power negate yeah

a super strength bp is a bp that always will be activated

a super strength power negate is a blocking action that will always go through

same for all other abilities.

For factional kill and anything else there are no loopholes cause

a super strength kill - is a kill that will always go through.

a super strength heal or block can't be stopped from triggering but can get bypassed by a non stopable kill. so there are no loopholes there.

Like I just asked the mod all this and that matches what he said except the blocking part still happens rest of negate sails through.

So I guess I am taking BP tonight and praying for another super down the line but this feels wrong. Like I don’t think the mod intended for this to be a thing? I mean it’s super cool and we should just like make our super armored obvTowns and lynch in the rest. Of the people who have powers who hasn’t taken BP yet? We can get them to take BP tonight and then just pray for another super down the line? Then we have our impenetrable force?

[MathBlade]

So the super bp will stop the super factional kills?!

No

The super factional kill would go through per Dream Weaver

But we just make sure only town gets super then huzzah we win.

[MathBlade]

I can only imagine the amount of BS flying around if Shiro were alive and had been negated...I imagine scum would see the same potential, so if scum had it I'd say it was Titus that had that power.

Titus cannot have Power Negate unless Math is scum, both confirmed to each other to have precog

Scum have daychat, Titus could have given powers to another person who picked up precog and was feeding info through scumchat.

This just isn’t a thing lol.

I can confirm I have precog if this is really a paranoia people have especially since I can’t be killed tonight if we lynch (which we should). Titus pretty much knew what power I would take if put up so she used me to try to “townfirm” her and flipped her shit when I didn’t I only confirmed she used the ability. She said she would be “townfirmed” by Ank which again made no sense. Her plans were about making her look good.

The way Titus shaded me means I think I can figure out which gambit she was running or she tried to slander me hard because I generally have a bias towards scumreading her.

Ok this post makes me reconsider my theory on the Shiro kill
but why then, if my theory is wrong?

Link me to your theory?

I think Shiro was killed due to Spirit Medium in general. That the future threat of talking to the dead was important to remove.

[MathBlade]

So we need a list of people with powers that don’t have BP and I hit them tonight with powers with the express purpose of picking up BP even if they don’t use it. Then if there is another time super strength comes up those same people get super (assuming they are still townread)

[MathBlade]

I never picked bp cause I thought phasing is the way more powerful version of same thing

So you and me on the list and see how many people need BP first. Then next time SS rolls around if it does we hit people without SS.

At that point even with worst case scenario we would be at what 14 alive so 11 v3 yeah?

[MathBlade]

We also need to decide if I am doing precog or not or if I am using petrification. Regardless I need to pick up BP tonight it’s mainly I wanna settle that.

[MathBlade]

The earlier is safer as the latter doesn’t give flips.
I just wanna make sure it’s a group decision what I do with the powers since a petrification or knowing what is coming up can have big consequences.

[MathBlade]

who should be elected as leader?

I have one shot BP thing so maybe not me?

I am thinking people in the PR group without BP.

Agreed on you I don’t trust you 100%

Someone give me a list of who is left?

[MathBlade]

who should be elected as leader?

I have one shot BP thing so maybe not me?

I already said I want one of Creature/sando
I'll let math decide which and who the other is (or he can pick both of those)

I kinda wanna make an impenetrable shield of town. I dunno how I would feel about introducing new people.

[MathBlade]

We also need to decide if I am doing precog or not or if I am using petrification. Regardless I need to pick up BP tonight it’s mainly I wanna settle that.

I'd prefer precog unless you can find a way to make petrification pro-town

I was thinking that too.

I was just concerned about how many lurkers we have. I was just gunning we could cut through the apathy by having a group decided flipless vig. But yeah precog is safer.

I originally picked it up so Titus 2.0 didn’t happen.

[MathBlade]

who should be elected as leader?

I have one shot BP thing so maybe not me?

I already said I want one of Creature/sando
I'll let math decide which and who the other is (or he can pick both of those)

I kinda wanna make an impenetrable shield of town. I dunno how I would feel about introducing new people.

What do you mean?

All the people in the PR town block that don’t have BP given them a power. They choose BP.

Hope and pray super strength comes up again then everyone without super strength but with BP and is townread gets a dose of SS.

Then the only thing that kills those people is an SS kill which would put a target on scum’s back if any where in the SS group.

So then you have a ton of people scum can’t kill without outing themselves

[MathBlade]

who should be elected as leader?

I have one shot BP thing so maybe not me?

I already said I want one of Creature/sando
I'll let math decide which and who the other is (or he can pick both of those)

I kinda wanna make an impenetrable shield of town. I dunno how I would feel about introducing new people.

What do you mean?

All the people in the PR town block that don’t have BP given them a power. They choose BP.

Hope and pray super strength comes up again then everyone without super strength but with BP and is townread gets a dose of SS.

Then the only thing that kills those people is an SS kill which would put a target on scum’s back if any where in the SS group.

So then you have a ton of people scum can’t kill without outing themselves

That is of course assuming worst case scenario that scum have SS.

[MathBlade]

who should be elected as leader?

I have one shot BP thing so maybe not me?

I am thinking people in the PR group without BP.

Agreed on you I don’t trust you 100%

Someone give me a list of who is left?

you don't have to post that you don't trust me or scumread me all the time

it's annoying to deal with so maybe don't?

I am not concerned with “annoying” I am concerned with what I feel is right. If that annoys you sorry not sorry.

[MathBlade]

who should be elected as leader?

I have one shot BP thing so maybe not me?

I am thinking people in the PR group without BP.

Agreed on you I don’t trust you 100%

Someone give me a list of who is left?

you don't have to post that you don't trust me or scumread me all the time

it's annoying to deal with so maybe don't?

I am not concerned with “annoying” I am concerned with what I feel is right. If that annoys you sorry not sorry.

it's annoying cause it's ridiculously horrible case and it's probably not even wolfy of you to make it

Even if I take that it is horrible which again I refuted that point, that only means I am bad at making cases. It doesn’t make me wrong about you.

[MathBlade]

ok math tunnel me until I'm dead who cares

I am actually not. And I resent the implication I am tunneling I just have unmitigated concerns about your slot. Right now I am on Toog as I feel he is vastly more likely to be scum however you are in my pool of suspicious players. Therefore I do not wish you to get a power or leader.

[MathBlade]

Mathblade Sakura Shiro drixx nancy

Shiro’s dead
Drixx has BP.

This leaves Sakura myself and Nancy and FA out of yesterday’s claimed power recipients. I am assuming if you didn’t get a power you’d have said so by now.

[MathBlade]

FA: You literally gave an example of exactly what Titus is trying to say about you. Math got you to back off by treating you a certain way. That's a pattern for you. I didn't see anything from Titus where it was meant to have a go at you. It is good to know the things about yourself that you might otherwise overlook.

Sure, Thanks. But that example just doesn't make any sense to me.

who did you vote for leader drixx?

The sad part is that you probably think you have some kind of "gotcha!" here. Whom I voted for is self-evident. You shouldn't have to ask because you should already know.

why you didn't say it more directly here?

I am sorry for that.

What do you think of me, you, Ank, Math, Shiro, Drixx for my gift pool? I could stretch down to Nancy as well but her posting today is less good than d1.

Ank is dead
No new additions from Titus here unless scum

[MathBlade]

So I am thinking Sakura Nancy FA Drixx and myself for powers.

It’s pretty much the core block and if you need SS take SS if you need BP take BP.

[MathBlade]

why not recruit 5 other players
instead of just 4

Because I can’t count lolz.

So then we need one more. Is there anyone else I forgot?

[MathBlade]

I can only imagine the amount of BS flying around if Shiro were alive and had been negated...I imagine scum would see the same potential, so if scum had it I'd say it was Titus that had that power.

Titus cannot have Power Negate unless Math is scum, both confirmed to each other to have precog

Correct.
I can also use my precog again since I won’t die tonight if it helps clear some things up for people.
Since I couldn’t actually use protection and Titus almost wasn’t lynched I actually took petrification. I am very rarely ever a nightkill so I figured it’s a safe bet since I am regarded as dumb.
Since it’s 9v9 for leader votes as per the plan I guess if it’s between me or Sakura then scum picked me?

I quite frankly forgot that you were in the running for leader. I don't know what the scum motivation for picking you over sakura would be for scum except maybe to shoot sakura for tonight? I'd think they'd want to get you out of the way first though, seeing that you're near conf-town status atm

Titus was insulting me/my play/my ability the entire day. If scum had to choose between me who Titus thought sucked and Sakura who Titus didn’t insult, who do you think scum would pick?

I didn't vote anyone for lead last night. Didn't read the game either, but technically speaking I didn't specify when I was going to read it. Safest lynch today is me tbqh. Get me out now before I become a mislynch later. I'm not going to get power or be elected leader, like ever, which basically makes me a Vanilla, and I'm not putting in enough effort to really be a useful Vanilla even.

VOTE: Toog

I am okay with this lynch because Toog made a promise and didn’t follow through with it. The lawyerese speak reeks of Titus coaching. While technically true it’s something my sister has said to me in strategy/deception games numerous times. It’s like trying to dodge the lynch 101. And if Toog is town it does provide analysis towards the day end events to find scum. I think it’s a scum ploy to avoid the wagon.

I agree with this. Titus flip makes Toog look mad sus
VOTE: Toog

Just find a vig and shoot me

honestly if i got powers and vig was up, I'd take it and shoot sando

he's probably town, but I've got to be consistent. At least that's what Titus told me in scumchat before she died.

Can you please stop doing what I think are jokes? I struggle with that

It’s much more in our interests to lynch elsewhere imho and among Titus’s defenders imho.

Do you not think Titus was bused?

It’s possible but more likely than not due to the resistance scum were trying to save Titus

for that to work they risked ank getting mediumed which would out titus or they thought the people with medium will out themself and they can kill them all in time which seems ridiculous.

or nancy is the scum in titus list who got power negate and used it for scum team in titus behalf

I kinda think titus gave an all-town list.

I think it’s all town or she gave one to scum after killing Ank

See underline.

[MathBlade]

We actually need to make nancy claim her night 2 too. everyone else with power claimed it from n2.

also maybe her night 1

nancy has been away from this game for awhile i dont remember any of her posts as of late anyhow. Is she not in other games as well?

nancy is on VLA if memory serves

@Tora, agree current string of posts is town!Creature scented.

i disagree but he's probably not scum by virtue of the behaviour other flipped slots.

btw please take the wagon as a compliment.

So what really happened there?

Scum spent all day trying to get me lynched instead of Titus and when that failed they flailed onto wagons like you to desperately keep their superhero Titus alive.

Like who?

uhmmm I don’t understand your context? Like I think Creature is talking about himself?

Yeh, Sando feels better today.

imo no he doesn't but like I said for your slot, other flip scum make him an unlikely team mate.

the worst

either

town

or extremely good wolf

i concur

Sorry can't help, currently 100% for voting scum this game, need to keep my perfect record

i mean you voted drixx and me so you already fucked that up my dude

Kinda agree here. Like Drixx is obvTown and nos meh could go either way but again I have more scum candidates than him

I feel like I haven't really captured the likeable aesthetic of Shiro's pitch. damn.

quite frankly yours is a little bit frightening

Especially with how much resistance there was to the titus wagon

^ unless stun went for the hardest bus of 2018, mad doubt that he's scum

Titus could have told him to. I am looking forward to the first scum flip after Titus influence is gone. Similar to other games Titus has lost interest in. She said herself the game was a chore.

@fa, why did you want to redirect a kill to sando?

i think ur town but i also think u like to ask useless questions.

Also Shiro flip = scum didn't want an Anka mediumship? Talk to me someone

This...actually hit a very important vein in the discussion. I think it's very likely Ank was not given a power n2 and the kill was to cover-up the fact. Any objections?

this seems to be the popular opinion.

-snip-

this is weak honestly
prob scum.

I find toranaga to be likelier to be town on the focus of his content than mathblade

I would also agree with this.

p sure shiros an antideathmiller

Ahahaha you fucking dimwit this game isn't bastard, go sit in the corner and stfu and let the adults talk

i read this so aggressively that i choked a little bit

who should be elected as leader?

I have one shot BP thing so maybe not me?

I already said I want one of Creature/sando

why creature for leader?

Let's not hammer toog until tomorrow. He said he'd be able to pop in then, and i want to see his defense to mathblade

I don't think we're gonna get much better than that post he already gave.

-snip-

Titus was insulting me/my play/my ability the entire day. If scum had to choose between me who Titus thought sucked and Sakura who Titus didn’t insult, who do you think scum would pick?

-snip-

Can you please stop doing what I think are jokes? I struggle with that

-snip-

It’s possible but more likely than not due to the resistance scum were trying to save Titus

-snip-

I think it’s all town or she gave one to scum after killing Ank

See underline.

1. I mean Titus was demeaning your play but that's cause she was scum and you thought she was. I don't see why the scumteam would continue to take that to heart when they know you're correct and she's discrediting to save herself
2. I'm partly not joking. I'd probably shoot sando.
3. Ok. The wagon split off seemed more like town indecision to me though.
4. I mean that's a possibility. Did she have more people in her list than what were available to give town to? If so then she probably gave it to scum!nancy. Otherwise I'm inclined to think that the list she gave was all town and she gave it to scum not in the list.

1) I was correct on Titus yes. However I have been scum backed into a corner during games. In those games it isn’t so much who you kill. It’s who you leave behind and who you kill. After assassinating my character making me leader is a good ploy if scum think they can get everyone to view me as less than or inferior.
2) I kinda don’t wanna shoot Sando here. Odds are greater than not he is town.
3) It doesn’t seem like that. Town indecision usually isn’t that forceful.
4) I don’t understand what you mean by more people in her list that were available... question. If you mean she omitted Drixx from her original suggestion then she did that but I feel that’s because Titus fears Drixx and how good he is with abilities.

[MathBlade]

I could run for leader again if u guys want me to.
Although it's clear scum DOESNT want me to.
I picked BP last night btw, I changed my mind coz i thought scum would reverse psychology me, if i had have superpowers earlier i would've gone for HT and use BP, but oh well.
This also means that i can SS a BP tonight so scum wouldnt be able to power negate me unless they get SS and strongman me.

Mainly I am concerned about two leader candidates that work well yet aren’t in people’s hell no piles.

[MathBlade]

That and the missing power slot

[MathBlade]

Someone asked me for reads. I don't usually do lists as most of you know. It's early day 3. I'm pretty sure scum is in:


{Titus, Sando, Toogeloo, Katsuki, Shiro, Nancy} - There are a couple others who I have light FoS on. Those are the ones where there's enough to at least have them a step further than nullscum.

I'm pressed for time but if anyone is confused about why, feel free to ask and I'll explain.

My strong town reads right now: Cerberus, Ank, Mylo

Seriously I do have some light town reads but I'm not at the point where I feel it's useful for me to just info vomit. Still have a list of things I want to go looking for and people I want to re-read.

FWIW: I have a couple working theories which adequately explain the events and gamestate, and unusual for me this early I've got a potential town block in mind.

Sorry for the shotgun post. I am pressed for time and wanted to communicate a lot of thoughts. I'll try and respond to questions when I can.

your town reads are 2 dead and flipped confirmed town, and mylo?

Umm. Lol. I don't find this response genuine at all. Scum would have every incentive to fake a reply with confusion like this. Town would be aware said player died.

Yeah we are lynching this 100%!

I'm actually thinking that stun might be best for the fifth power slot. I'm warming up to him a lot. What do you guys think?

[MathBlade]

VOTE: nancy

there counter wagon

Dude...are you being sarcastic? Nancy is on VLA.

*eyebrows raise*

[MathBlade]

Pretty sure that self vote without reads is a scum claim. Anyone who objects to me using precog speak up now or forever hold your piece. If I don’t see any objections by midday tomorrow I will do it. Please don’t hammer until I use it so we can make sure we do leader and power choices.

[MathBlade]

So I am thinking Sakura Nancy FA Drixx and myself for powers.

It’s pretty much the core block and if you need SS take SS if you need BP take BP.

+ Stungun404

That completes the power list

Then I am thinking Sakura or Drixx for leader.

[MathBlade]

So I am thinking Sakura Nancy FA Drixx and myself for powers.

It’s pretty much the core block and if you need SS take SS if you need BP take BP.

+ Stungun404

That completes the power list

Then I am thinking Sakura or Drixx for leader.

List(s) seem fine to me, all I was gonna say about your original list is it should include the leader picks, which you've now outlined which is fine.

Consider who in that 5 you'd drop for other leadership choices though. I think Sakura should be a leader choice given we agreed to that yesterday and nothing has changed, but people might not be thrilled about Drixx (I'm fine with it).

I’d still keep those five and just switch leaders if people have a problem with Drixx. I don’t remember anyone complaining yesterday and no one said anything after my suggestion today and he’s been obvTown to me the whole game. He’s probably been busy a lot but making him leader will either clarify the doubts anyone has. In the off chance I am wrong on it him being leader would highlight that fact. I don’t think I am wrong here but I think it’s a unifying choice

[MathBlade]

UNVOTE: ]/unvote]

we need to discuss leadership

@Toog where is your elaborated answer?

@FA I am thinking Sakura Drixx. You said discuss leadership? Do you have an issue with the choices?

[MathBlade]

FA I gotta sleep chica.

Let me know if you disagree with my power choices or what not and I will see it in the am.

[MathBlade]

Mathblade Sakura Shiro drixx nancy

Shiro’s dead
Drixx has BP.

This leaves Sakura myself and Nancy and FA out of yesterday’s claimed power recipients. I am assuming if you didn’t get a power you’d have said so by now.

Unless I misunderstand I don't have it. It's a one shot and I used it. I was observed using it in fact.

Powers are not one shot unless they say so.

For example if you get a power like say BP on day one

Then never get picked again you could activate it again on day 314.

[MathBlade]

Drakura Sixx sounds like a band name

anyone wanna start a band?

Oooh that is the name of the six obvTowns we hopefully protect

The Drakura Sixx

I like it.

Why has this game suddenly gone quiet?

[MathBlade]

I sent in my precog since I can’t die. Will post results if I have them during lunch break.

[MathBlade]

Sakura Leader: Drixx
Drixx Leader: Math Sakura

Anyone else wanna chime in?

[MathBlade]

Uhmmm I want Drixx to be leader more than Sakura why does Sakura have more votes?

[MathBlade]

Btw, im interested in why u want Drixx over me Math?

Because Drixx due to RL or time or what not has been quiet (not alignment indicative) and needs to an easier way to get his voice heard with his limited time and making him leader accomplishes just that.

However since IMHO Sakura and Drixx are both town it’s no sweat but I figured Drixx leader gives him time to explore as needed.

[MathBlade]

Stun what do u think of Drixx activating BP last night as confirmed by Tora?

i think drixx is town overall just from the general tone of his posts. however, he has a bulletproof shield he can potentially use, so he does not need the protection that leadership provides him. therefore, i think it has more net usefulness for sakura to be a leader, at least in terms of overall impact with regarding the game. that way, sakura cannot be nk’d next night phase, and somebody can probably doc her this coming night phase from the powers to protect her, thus making it hard for scum to get rid of you. or you can take the impenetrable bulletproof yourself sakana. it is up to you

Fair point. We can do sakura.

[MathBlade]

lol. mathblade and i be townslipping not recognizing that sakura took bulletproof last night. so that effectively nullifies that argument, but sakura as leader might be a little more optimal because of her focus on townreading slots moreso than drixx. drixx says he doesn’t do very well with townreads, anyways.

Mainly the point of either scum forced me leader or coin flip is good too,

Yeah let’s do Sakura as leader

Yay for posting at work

[MathBlade]

lol. mathblade and i be townslipping not recognizing that sakura took bulletproof last night. so that effectively nullifies that argument, but sakura as leader might be a little more optimal because of her focus on townreading slots moreso than drixx. drixx says he doesn’t do very well with townreads, anyways.

Where did he say that?

He works off facts and reason.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Unvote

I am sorted but yeah more people talking would help.

I’d be shocked if we need that contingency plan.

10 v 6 on leader wagons nothing scum can do

Realistically we’re lynching Toog who scum claimed

I guess the only thing is if people don’t agree with my power choices

[MathBlade]

Yeah not confident in reads is not the same thing. I understand how Drixx plays pretty well. Similarly he gets he gets how I play too.

[MathBlade]

Colored Fruit Vendor
Petrification
Reflexive Power Mimicry (in other words you get hit with a power you get it)
Power Echo
Self Detonation (available during the day)
Tracker

Still at work people

[MathBlade]

That is tomorrow’s list

[MathBlade]

Colored Fruit Vendor
Petrification
Reflexive Power Mimicry (in other words you get hit with a power you get it)
Power Echo
Self Detonation (available during the day)
Tracker

Still at work people

Jesus tomorrow is gonna be important not to give scum any power chance. If Self Detonation does what I think it does ...

You die and your target dies <paraphrase, can be triggered during the day> I get what Dream Weaver would copy paste. I don’t think scum would use this though that would put them at an even worse disadvantage.

We will have more BP than scum exist.

[MathBlade]

lol. mathblade and i be townslipping not recognizing that sakura took bulletproof last night. so that effectively nullifies that argument, but sakura as leader might be a little more optimal because of her focus on townreading slots moreso than drixx. drixx says he doesn’t do very well with townreads, anyways.

Either I gave the wrong impression or you misunderstood me. I townhunt very well. I just don't generally

share

my town reads and reasons why until there's a reason to do so. It serves no value for me to signal to someone I'm very sure is town that I recognize it. All that accomplishes is putting them higher on scum's radar.

The proper time to reveal and explain townreads is when it gives you a boost in EV/WC. When I think I can lock the game up for a town win, I'll generally start throwing out things (ranging from subtle to overt) to firm up my reads and at some point (if left alive and nobody else is strongly townleading) I'll come out swinging for the fences.

The best example I can think of this off the top of my head is Steven Universe (in hydra with Cerberus). We collectively spent perhaps 100 hours about 1/3 of the way through the game to firm up our reasoning for town reads, and then some more time to make sure we hadn't missed something before we then dumped into the thread our theory of game. It's a little ironic that I feel like that game is the best example of my MO as a town leader when we lost that game but ... the context of that game mitigates it I suppose. We really did have the game to a "Town literally cannot lose unless a town player intentionally sabotages" state ... and a townie sabotaged.

Anyway ... don't want you to misunderstand how I roll. Think of me like an iceberg. You can see a little bit but you're not going to have any idea of what you can't see until I crash into you. (If you'll allow me to stretch the metaphor a bit).

I think the metaphor is on the nose because IMHO we are at the same point of can’t lose unless a townie sabotages. But are you talking SU or SU2 because you were scum in SU2.

[MathBlade]

Self Detonation (available during the day)

we should use this to blast the lynchpool

...Not a fan of sacrificing the players scum can’t kill to eliminate lynch pool people faster.

We have my petrify for that.

We would have to give the power to someone in the lynch pool and then if they don’t take it it’s a scum claim but then we run the risk of townies doing their own thing. Ala what happened in Drixx’s game.

We have the game on lock if we keep bulletproofing townies. There is no scum in the lynchpool that ever wins a lylo against our town block.

[MathBlade]

If we do this (which I am not really a fan of) we have to plan it out.

We don’t go for a “deep wolf” the evidence is clear there likely aren’t any.

We give the bombs to the towniest of the not in the bloc and then we have them go off on the least Townie.

The reason we give them to the towniest is because we want to not end up with dead conf town.

Pedit I haven’t heard any objections.

[MathBlade]

.....so blast the scumpool asap to make sure your townbloc doesn't have any wolves in it? like your townbloc is huge it's entirely susceptible to bring infiltrated (and nah I'm not interested in guessing who's a deepwolf here)

throw me the self destruct and I'll literally nuke myself and a player of your choice, if I don't then you lynch me that Day. ezpz

My concern is not that you wouldn’t blow up but on the wrong person if scum.

Pedit: @Creature someone suggested it but it wasn’t me. The leader always nominates the next two choices and then if anyone objects we go from there.

[MathBlade]

@stungun404
It isn’t so much a matter of Toog lynch, that is almost certainly gonna happen. We’re just trying to figure out tomorrow.

Do you have any contributions towards that?

[MathBlade]

y is math leader and who voted for that?

Everyone and because it was between me and Sakura both of us are obvTown so scum probably went with me as people tend to think I am stupid.

[MathBlade]

What we have been doing is since the day two fiasco
Current leader is picking two leader candidates then everyone votes in those two people

Right now Sakura and Drixx are my picks

[MathBlade]

VOTE: The worst

i want duckling to be the counterwagon here, because odds are decently high he is scum, especially if toog is not

@tw, what tempted you to join the creature wagon last day phase?

same for you toog?

Let’s just lynch Toog when we get the next leader shit planned. Any counter wagon is gonna feel forced and won’t get traction because obvScum Toog.

[MathBlade]

would also kill Drixx

This is basically an endorsement coming from Nero. I can't recall a game we've played together where I was town and he didn't scum read me. It's like a self fulfilling prophecy at this point.

Are you sure we've even had a town game together? The only two games that I remember playing with you are Civ and Coal Miners and you were scum in both.

Lol. Pretty sure we've had quite a lot more than two games together. Nice selective recall though.

Rabbit trail thoughts:

I'm always confused when people bring up Civ mafia and scum!Drixx though. I signed up for Civ prior to Mastina forcing me to invest like ~100 hours on the final day of SU2, with the promise she would actually put in the time and have an actual reason to vote for us (Cerb+Me as RR) which

wasn't

"You're too good as scum. I'd rather lose with you than

to

you." which was basically the sole reason she had to vote us. Like ... okay respect is great but basically that said "My ego is worth more than conceding that I have absolutely no reason to believe you are scum and acting accordingly and if you are scum I can kudos you for pulling it off" which was a pretty solid kick to the nuts ... especially when we played like the last 2.5 to 3 months real time of that game as the final scum and despite believing we were in a no win position for all of that time we still gave absolute 100% effort.

So yeah ... that happened. Then I got rolled as scum in Civ. With Mastina. I should have just immediately replaced out at that point, but I have a lot of affection and respect for that player/mod so I tried to stay in. I realized after day one that I wasn't really in the headspace to even

try

working with Mastina at that point, and I didn't want to zero effort the game so I replaced out. -- At the time I replaced out I had put out a pretty absurdly bold gambit though, AND someone kindly bucked and took the wonder so I would never have had to "pay up" on the gambit. If I had stayed in, I think I could have done a good job in that game ... assuming I would have had the mental reserves to give it the time it deserved.

But umm... what I actually DID in that game was not a lot and I'm not sure why people reference it. The gambit I was running on day one wasn't particularly noteworthy I don't think.

I will admit to Gold Miner $laughter being a good scum game but it wasn't exactly a very big or long game.

End rabbit trail.

I mean ... I think it shouldn't take much effort to go find games with us together and me as town and you scum reading me. If it matters that much to you, I can do a quick run through my game history and just take a quick look at activity log to see if you were there and then your ISO. My brain says you literally always call me scum when I'm town. I listen to my brain and verify as needed.


@Nos - Sure man. I'll shred. I'm actually sad we're not going to make the Drakura Sixx a real thing now.

lol. mathblade and i be townslipping not recognizing that sakura took bulletproof last night. so that effectively nullifies that argument, but sakura as leader might be a little more optimal because of her focus on townreading slots moreso than drixx. drixx says he doesn’t do very well with townreads, anyways.

Either I gave the wrong impression or you misunderstood me. I townhunt very well. I just don't generally

share

my town reads and reasons why until there's a reason to do so. It serves no value for me to signal to someone I'm very sure is town that I recognize it. All that accomplishes is putting them higher on scum's radar.

The proper time to reveal and explain townreads is when it gives you a boost in EV/WC. When I think I can lock the game up for a town win, I'll generally start throwing out things (ranging from subtle to overt) to firm up my reads and at some point (if left alive and nobody else is strongly townleading) I'll come out swinging for the fences.

The best example I can think of this off the top of my head is Steven Universe (in hydra with Cerberus). We collectively spent perhaps 100 hours about 1/3 of the way through the game to firm up our reasoning for town reads, and then some more time to make sure we hadn't missed something before we then dumped into the thread our theory of game. It's a little ironic that I feel like that game is the best example of my MO as a town leader when we lost that game but ... the context of that game mitigates it I suppose. We really did have the game to a "Town literally cannot lose unless a town player intentionally sabotages" state ... and a townie sabotaged.

Anyway ... don't want you to misunderstand how I roll. Think of me like an iceberg. You can see a little bit but you're not going to have any idea of what you can't see until I crash into you. (If you'll allow me to stretch the metaphor a bit).

I think the metaphor is on the nose because IMHO we are at the same point of can’t lose unless a townie sabotages. But are you talking SU or SU2 because you were scum in SU2.

SU. We had our townblock reasoned out really solidly. We even figured out the lynchbait was town. We had already caught Titus slipping and bagged her and a scum partner from the slip. The day the sabotage happened, we info dumped who was town. We tested the lynchbait to make sure we were right and they passed with flying colors (but because we like NEVER unvote, either of us, because we both just don't view voting as the same kind of tool most people do ... it left that person within potential lynch range if shenanigans). -- So then we tell the game the exact order of lynches which results in a guaranteed town win, with the reasons why.

The claimed miller (who had said himself the prior game day that he had to eat rope before end game due to the whole miller thing) didn't like that they were at the top of the lynch order and in a pique of spite pulled shenanigans and hammered the lynchbait scum had worked so hard to set up and whom we had posted an ironclad clear of.

Like ... literally if we just freaking unvoted that game was impossible to lose.

But ... it's a game. Everyone plays for their own reasons. I can't tell that player who decided to make a spite play that they have no right to do that. Perhaps they weren't convinced by our logical reasoning which cleared the lynchbait and thought they would "show" us by hammering and the game would end and they could rub our face in it or something.

So yeah ... absolutely can and do make town reads. I'll even step up and town lead when I'm ready if someone else isn't already doing the job. One of the first things I learned once I got to a sufficient level of town play is that's it's an absolutely miserably stupid idea to try and jump in and lead town if someone else is already doing a good job of it. If they fuck up or get something wrong ... can always say something... but trying to push them out and lead instead is just a recipe for a shit sandwhich.

Combine that with the fact that I am very deliberate ... there's only a few games where I needed to do more than share my thoughts/reasoning and actually lead the town. You can find them if you want but you can also find a ton of games where someone else is handling the charismatic part and I'm able to obvtown to them and stay low key.

Generally I feel like scum kind of just never feel threatened by me until it's too late; at least ... not usually threatened enough to NK me (although sometimes they will go to the trouble of killing me twice because you know ... reasons). Part of it is that a lot of players (nobody in particular in this game) just don't think I'm any good at town or whatever. Part of it is inexperience with me. Part of it is who the hell knows. But I will admit that it feels nice to be the default night kill. There was a good like 2 years on my home site where I was either the night one kill or the day two lynch. Like clockwork the game would just see if I died night one and if not they lynched me. Wasn't so fun.

I'm tired. See ya'll on the flip side.

<3 Agreed. The townbloc has got this we just have to find the scum in the lynchpool. And it’s for that reason I never defend you day one if I am scum. It’s a stupid move lol. You can break games wide open as town it’s just more gotta have faith in brethren.

Keep in mind Titus didn’t want me to be good she attacked me at every turn. She reminds people I am bad. Because mechanics are your and my jam. Scum didn’t waste a bullet on me when they could because they thought Titus’s shade would work. And now with town block’s ingenuity if they ever do shoot you or me it’s a scum claim and confirmation of a deep wolf. We just gotta ride this out.