Open 731: Twin Trap (Game Over)

[BuJaber]

What if game is trying to kill A50 through natural causes?

In all seriousness, I don't think this is the right time to second guess ourselves. If we're wrong about Tor we reflect on that tomorrow. And it'll likely flip scum imo. The lynch should go through.

[Toranaga]

I'm town and I finally got the tide turn off me so let's not do that

I'm gonna read this entire game when I'm back from taking wife to work

I agree wh4t is probably town

[Wh4t]

I'm confused why you keep reiterating your town read on me whilst keeping your vote there? I look forward to your catch up please do soon.

[Wh4t]

Bu, we only get two mislynches. Even if Tor is scum we need as much info as we can get to nail the buddy. If not his thoughts as town are valuable so I'd rather let him give thoughts on everybody.

BuJaber who would be your secpnd choice for a lynch today?

[Toranaga]

reading the game now gl me

[Almost50]

I'm doing a full reread of the whole game from a new fresh perspective. I'm currently on page 6, and I have 2 things to say:

1- BuJaber is TOWN and I'm willing to bet the game on this FACT.
2- Although Inferno's posting is really really bad; it doesn't have that feel of "scum planning" to it. His votes are all around and he doesn't care to vote any precise wagon in particular. I'd say this is either bad town posting or really bad scum voting.

P-edit: GOOD! That makes 2 of us, and we should be able to compare our findings/reads.

[Toranaga]

You’re all wrong, burgers are obviously the best because they can have both eggs or cheese on them!
VOTE: GameNBurger

Also, I have never played with anyone in this game before except BuJaber, so this should be interesting. (I swear my meta has improved, BuJaber.)

I like the last line from inferno cause it's open self metaing in a way I rarely see from scum until they're being pushed.

Why not eggs AND cheese?

Conveniently enough you're neither.

Trying to avoid votes?

VOTE: Eragon

I don't understand what eragon was doing that felt like trying to avoid votes.

I'm assuming this is an actual push and not a continuation of RVS voting, so can you elaborate on both this and why you thought inferno was doing the same thing?

Haha, time for discussion generation!

BuJaber is prob a VT.

Post 25 is weird enough to garner some sus.

GameNBurgers lack of appearance is interesting, but NAI due to no daytalk.

bolded is awkward and reads as TMI, although it could be due to inferno actually randing town PR. I don't think a town VT would ever make that read at any rate.

Ok, vote stays.

wolfy

I really like how inferno phrased his egg vote on #33 and share similar feelings about egg's posting as per this vote.

Because I find it’s a good way to get out of RVS. Helps me judge interactions and gather info. It hasn’t failed me yet, and I doubt it will start now.
Egg is scum now btw.
VOTE: Egg

Negative. No good reason to speculate on who is or isn't a power role.

egg not reacting to being scumread is drudgesiren.gif.

manatee's posting is awful. jesus christ.

Because I find it’s a good way to get out of RVS. Helps me judge interactions and gather info. It hasn’t failed me yet, and I doubt it will start now.
Egg is scum now btw.
VOTE: Egg

I was reffering to you making guesses on roles. Thats almost always proscum behavior, I'm not gonna push you for it tho.

Do you not have any scum reads yet? If not, why no vote on Inferno?

why would he vote inferno? he just said he won't push him for it, which means this isn't something manatee is wolfreading, yes?

locking inferno as town after #42

I'd be scumreading manatee after #44 very hard and never letting it go. it's always easy to see the towny things your slot was doing before replacing in but manatee's early posting is shockingly bad.

but this is what happens when toranaga sama subs into your game. I save even the wolfiest town from guaranteed lynch.

toranaga bless.

ok moving on

Preliminary reads:

BuJ is Town
Egg is Town
Manatee likely Town

And if Inferno flips red the other is very likely to be GameNBurger (fits the description as the RVS vote of the p AND the silent p who didn't get to vote in RVS. In fact, he never even posted yet).

inferno wolf, egg town? manatee town?

how are you townreading manatee? also how are you townreading egg? he did nothing towny, did he?

a50 is a big headache.

Ys, it is very clear that you are trying to paint me as scum for something that is not actually that scummy.
VOTE: A50

+

I agree inferno's VT read is not protown behaviour, and it certainly reads as possible TMI, but the way both A50 and egg are jumping on it feel like scum picking an easy thing to push for because they're spotting something that can be construed as scum motivated. I don't really know what to expect from A50 cause his playstyle is highly mechanical and sort of tone deaf, but this doesn't look good.

#57 and #58 from GNB are highly descriptive with little original additions and piling on inferno feels opportunistic.

I like #64 from egg.

reads after p3: inferno is definitely town for early posting. very nuanced, picking up on good things, pushing the right people at the right times and mindmelding with me a whole lot. I'm already strong townready wh4t after yesterday but this helps solidifying the read.

I don't like egg's early posts but #64 provides a good reasoning for his vote on inferno and I appreciate and share his read on game's posts.

I already have eragon as town after yesterday and think his early stuff was ~fine

so inferno/egg/eragon is an early towncore

A50 and game are scummy

VOTE: almost50

putting this here while I read p4-10

[Almost50]

I finished my reread and have a

completely

different view of the game now. I think scum are in Eragon/Fromage/Poseidon (in that order).

VOTE: Eragon

Eragon has been doing some townie stuff indeed, but taking a look at the bigger picture they seem to have been done for show. He often tried to feed the fire (especially on the Inferno/Manatee slots) but stayed uncommitted (by vote) for most of the time. If you take his posts separately you will probably TR him for each single one of them, but combined they didn't give the same impression. Also 377 for example is scummy enough on it's own.


I know this one's gonna be met by some strong opposition by many who have been TRing Eragon hard, and while I have played him before I do not have a strong meta on him either, so this is a read based purely on his play/posts in this thread.

If this flips scum then the cross voting with Fromage feels off. However, Poseidon being totally unavailable if late gives me the irks too.

P-edit: Oh, well. Tor caught me red handed. What can I do? *Shrug*

[Toranaga]

I think BuJaber is town, but it's not because he reminded the Mod something was missing in the OP.

Why don't you tell us why you think BuJaber is town? Is it because he doesn't want to get townread for asking about the setup?

Basically. It's the way he's handled inferno in general. Just all out attacking the idea. Going after the guy who is calling him confirmed town. It looks like town who sees bad logic and is calling it out. That said, he's voting manatee over inferno so it's not like he's doing anything that would remove inferno from the game, making it a relatively safe town cred play for scum. That's why he's not my strongest town read. It's enough that I don't want to Lynch him today though. You voted Eragon for fluff posting. What do you think of his content posts? Why does the fluff outweigh those?

very nuanced thoughts on bujaber and highly unlikely to come from mafia.

@BuJ: Yeah, it started like a mechanical read, but his reaction was doubling down on it rather than acknowledging he made a mistake. IMHO, a townie response was to stop when he said you could be a PR still and say spoke too fast or something. But he went on against odds (and logic) to try and convince me "likely VT" is indeed interchangeable with "likely Town".

there was never a point in inferno's posting where he is casting shade on bujaber and he explained quite clearly how his "likely VT" read is on the unlikelihood of bujaber being either PR or scum. it's not a good read and certainly fakeable from bujaber, but his thoughts are clearly laid out in a very sensible way. IDK how backtracking on his statement is a "towny response"? clearly inferno believes what he is posting here.

GNB still casting shade on inferno in #96. "flailing even harder" is an uncharitable description of inferno's posting, and "flailing" is a vague enough verb that can mean anything and isn't descriptive of inferno's behaviour. he is not engaging with inferno or progressing any way with his read either.

on #98 GNB metadives manatee and my initial impression is that this is a really towny thing to be doing, but there's no conclusion or new take on manatee, and being this early it actually feels forced, like GNB is trying to get town credit by metadiving when he doesn't have any reason to.

Conflicted about burger. On the one hand it does seem like he's jumping to conclusions based on little evidence but that's slso a whole lot of effort just to build a case on inferno who is lynchbait frankly.

if inferno is lynchbait, then why are you not defending him?

I'll continue this in a bit

[Toranaga]

I finished my reread and have a

completely

different view of the game now. I think scum are in Eragon/Fromage/Poseidon (in that order).

VOTE: Eragon

Eragon has been doing some townie stuff indeed, but taking a look at the bigger picture they seem to have been done for show. He often tried to feed the fire (especially on the Inferno/Manatee slots) but stayed uncommitted (by vote) for most of the time. If you take his posts separately you will probably TR him for each single one of them, but combined they didn't give the same impression. Also 377 for example is scummy enough on it's own.


I know this one's gonna be met by some strong opposition by many who have been TRing Eragon hard, and while I have played him before I do not have a strong meta on him either, so this is a read based purely on his play/posts in this thread.

If this flips scum then the cross voting with Fromage feels off. However, Poseidon being totally unavailable if late gives me the irks too.

P-edit: Oh, well. Tor caught me red handed. What can I do? *Shrug*

you can respond to my questions and thoughts about you!

what do you make of eragon fake hammering and then proceeding to clear me yesterday? I don't see the scum motivation in doing it.

[Wh4t]

I'm happy lynching in A50, Poseidon today.

VOTE: A50

[Toranaga]

I'm happy lynching in A50, Poseidon today.

VOTE: A50

I was under the impression you townread A50

what changed?

[Wh4t]

I'm happy lynching in A50, Poseidon today.

VOTE: A50

I was under the impression you townread A50

what changed?

I've talked a lot about A50. Please read my ISO.

I started off suspicious, put him as null/scumish. Asked him why he was scummy and town read him for his push back onto me. I then said I was concerned about A50 being scum because of his lynch happy posts.

[Eragon]

@Tor

I think that was a joke, becuase I said “___ is tastier Han ___”
And they responded
“Wel your neither do you must be trying to avoid votes”

I consider it NAI

@A50, I’ll look at it overall, but I saw you say something about being gone or shit
Ye, I completely lost this game, I get good about it the beginning, but ~page 10 I just lost all my WIM(which, for whoever asked it, basically stands for whim of the game and your activity and drive). I’m hoping to get back into it soon, but I’m just kinda bleh rn

[Wh4t]

P-edit: Oh, well. Tor caught me red handed. What can I do? *Shrug*

What even is this?

[Almost50]

what do you make of eragon fake hammering and then proceeding to clear me yesterday? I don't see the scum motivation in doing it.

You claimed VT. Scum don't want to lynch a VT, or -at least- not before outing a PR. "Let's switch to someone else and see what they claim".. then if that's a PR .. WELL DONE. If not, then they don't need to worry about two slots, which helps when deciding on the NK. Simple.

I haven't

completely

ruled you out as scum. I just think it's very unlikely for you to be, and I'm willing to try and work with you for today in an attempt to actually lynch scum.

[Almost50]

I'm happy lynching in A50, Poseidon today.

VOTE: A50

Some things never change!

I'll vote Poseidon IF there's enough support to wagon him.

[Almost50]

@A50, I’ll look at it overall, but I saw you say something about being gone or shit
Ye, I completely lost this game, I get good about it the beginning, but ~page 10 I just lost all my WIM(which, for whoever asked it, basically stands for whim of the game and your activity and drive). I’m hoping to get back into it soon, but I’m just kinda bleh rn

The remark about activity concerns Poseidon. Your activity is plausible. I had to check on one of your most recent scum games though to verify you do post that much as scum (you had over 190 posts in one day phase, and it ended with your lynch as the Mafia Roe Cop, if it helps you recognize what game I checked. You were a replacement that came in on D3, as far as I can remember).

[Almost50]

Oh, and you're still subscribed to that thread. I got it from your subjects in your profile page.

[Almost50]

P-edit: Oh, well. Tor caught me red handed. What can I do? *Shrug*

What even is this?

Is it a cow? Is it a Tree?? Is it a PLANE???

[Wh4t]

A50 what does Duck have to do with me reading you correctly?

[Toranaga]

@Inferno - my statement is missing the words 'as town'. Inferno is lynchbait as town. He could be scum. But honestly as unhelpful as his posting has been (mainly defending himself) gun to my head I'd say he's town here. He feels attacked and spends all his time and effort defending himself. I'm not adept at reading someone like him because he's the type that makes it really difficult to townread. He distracts himself and distracts everyone and gets emotional.
Now granted I haven't seem his scum game but given that happens with him as town you have to really try and gauge his overall tone/motivations.

For example earlier I thought he was maybe buddying me. But considering he is attacking pretty much anyone who critiques or votes for him, there doesn't seem to be any interest in making friends. Unless he really thinks that if he convinces me he's town that I alone can change everyone's mind. That would be hilariously wrong as I'm rarely a town leader in any game, let alone in a playerbase that includes A50 and a few 5+ year veterans. So if it's not buddying then does that line of thinking and bad logic regarding my question to the mod make sense from scum pov? I don't really think so. Scum would be more self-conscious about using bad logic like that.

that's (mostly) a great post with a strong case for town!inferno. I can see why wh4t is so positive you're town.

Oho
Burger has scumslipped in an attempt to get rid of me
He doesn’t know that the only scumgame I’ve ever played is one of the marathon games from last month. (A fact that both drives me crazy and I am very proud of because it gives me very good townmeta)
I have never been scumpartners with Manatee, not have I been partners with anyone else in the regular style of game.
VOTE: Burger

Join me, brothers. I have found the true scum!

Yeah I stand by my vote.

Semi reply to Jaber, phone posting so shortish reply. I’m sensing a good depth of logic with Burger, and a solid understanding of the game. Can’t say if that’s pro-town read but it makes me a little confident

what are you talking about? who has good logic and solid understanding? inferno? if that's the case, then how are those things wolfy? is this sarcasm? IDGI

I like fromage's #144 a whole lot. it's a good case for game!scum with points I agree with

{BuJaBer, Fromage, Almost50}
{Egg, poseidon}
{GameNBurger}
{Inferno, Manatee}

preliminary reads

Mine is:

{Egg, Eragon}
{BuJaBer}
{Fromage}
{poseidon}
{Inferno, Manatee, GameNBurger}

@A50 I thought you had manatee as town earlier. what changed?

[Eragon]

@A50, I’ll look at it overall, but I saw you say something about being gone or shit
Ye, I completely lost this game, I get good about it the beginning, but ~page 10 I just lost all my WIM(which, for whoever asked it, basically stands for whim of the game and your activity and drive). I’m hoping to get back into it soon, but I’m just kinda bleh rn

The remark about activity concerns Poseidon. Your activity is plausible. I had to check on one of your most recent scum games though to verify you do post that much as scum (you had over 190 posts in one day phase, and it ended with your lynch as the Mafia Roe Cop, if it helps you recognize what game I checked. You were a replacement that came in on D3, as far as I can remember).

hmmmmmmmmmm

this wasn't mine then, because I had a game where I replaced in D1 as the mafia role cop and got lynched D4 in endgame(Newbie 1882) and I replaced in (IDK what day) in newbie (1879??{Plotinus's} as the mafia goon and got lynched as tracker-confirmed scum}

[Almost50]

A50 what does Duck have to do with me reading you correctly?

Is your connection THAT slow or are you amnesiac and have just remembered it?

[Almost50]

A50 what does Duck have to do with me reading you correctly?

In fact, what does this question have to do with your read on me? How will my answer help you get an accurate read on me?