Open 731: Twin Trap (Game Over)
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BuJaber Mafia Scum
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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Wh4t Goon
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Wh4t Goon
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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Almost50 Monkey Business
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I'm doing a full reread of the whole game from a new fresh perspective. I'm currently on page 6, and I have 2 things to say:
1- BuJaber is TOWN and I'm willing to bet the game on this FACT.
2- Although Inferno's posting is really really bad; it doesn't have that feel of "scum planning" to it. His votes are all around and he doesn't care to vote any precise wagon in particular. I'd say this is either bad town posting or really bad scum voting.
P-edit: GOOD! That makes 2 of us, and we should be able to compare our findings/reads.
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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I like the last line from inferno cause it's open self metaing in a way I rarely see from scum until they're being pushed.In post 11, Inferno390 wrote:You’re all wrong, burgers are obviously the best because they can have both eggs or cheese on them!
VOTE: GameNBurger
Also, I have never played with anyone in this game before except BuJaber, so this should be interesting. (I swear my meta has improved, BuJaber.)
I don't understand what eragon was doing that felt like trying to avoid votes.In post 17, BuJaber wrote:
Conveniently enough you're neither.In post 12, Eragon wrote:Why not eggs AND cheese?
Trying to avoid votes?
VOTE: Eragon
I'm assuming this is an actual push and not a continuation of RVS voting, so can you elaborate on both this and why you thought inferno was doing the same thing?
bolded is awkward and reads as TMI, although it could be due to inferno actually randing town PR. I don't think a town VT would ever make that read at any rate.In post 30, Inferno390 wrote:Haha, time for discussion generation!
BuJaber is prob a VT.
Post 25 is weird enough to garner some sus.
GameNBurgers lack of appearance is interesting, but NAI due to no daytalk.
wolfyIn post 31, Egg wrote:Ok, vote stays.
I really like how inferno phrased his egg vote on #33 and share similar feelings about egg's posting as per this vote.
egg not reacting to being scumread is drudgesiren.gif.In post 36, Egg wrote:
Negative. No good reason to speculate on who is or isn't a power role.In post 33, Inferno390 wrote:Because I find it’s a good way to get out of RVS. Helps me judge interactions and gather info. It hasn’t failed me yet, and I doubt it will start now.
Egg is scum now btw.
VOTE: Egg
manatee's posting is awful. jesus christ.
why would he vote inferno? he just said he won't push him for it, which means this isn't something manatee is wolfreading, yes?In post 39, Egg wrote:
Do you not have any scum reads yet? If not, why no vote on Inferno?In post 38, ManateeDude wrote:
I was reffering to you making guesses on roles. Thats almost always proscum behavior, I'm not gonna push you for it tho.In post 33, Inferno390 wrote:Because I find it’s a good way to get out of RVS. Helps me judge interactions and gather info. It hasn’t failed me yet, and I doubt it will start now.
Egg is scum now btw.
VOTE: Egg
locking inferno as town after #42
I'd be scumreading manatee after #44 very hard and never letting it go. it's always easy to see the towny things your slot was doing before replacing in but manatee's early posting is shockingly bad.
but this is what happens when toranaga sama subs into your game. I save even the wolfiest town from guaranteed lynch.
toranaga bless.
ok moving on
inferno wolf, egg town? manatee town?In post 46, Almost50 wrote:Preliminary reads:
BuJ is Town
Egg is Town
Manatee likely Town
And if Inferno flips red the other is very likely to be GameNBurger (fits the description as the RVS vote of the p AND the silent p who didn't get to vote in RVS. In fact, he never even posted yet).
how are you townreading manatee? also how are you townreading egg? he did nothing towny, did he?
a50 is a big headache.
+In post 53, Inferno390 wrote:Ys, it is very clear that you are trying to paint me as scum for something that is not actually that scummy.
VOTE: A50
I agree inferno's VT read is not protown behaviour, and it certainly reads as possible TMI, but the way both A50 and egg are jumping on it feel like scum picking an easy thing to push for because they're spotting something that can be construed as scum motivated. I don't really know what to expect from A50 cause his playstyle is highly mechanical and sort of tone deaf, but this doesn't look good.
#57 and #58 from GNB are highly descriptive with little original additions and piling on inferno feels opportunistic.
I like #64 from egg.
reads after p3: inferno is definitely town for early posting. very nuanced, picking up on good things, pushing the right people at the right times and mindmelding with me a whole lot. I'm already strong townready wh4t after yesterday but this helps solidifying the read.
I don't like egg's early posts but #64 provides a good reasoning for his vote on inferno and I appreciate and share his read on game's posts.
I already have eragon as town after yesterday and think his early stuff was ~fine
so inferno/egg/eragon is an early towncore
A50 and game are scummy
VOTE: almost50
putting this here while I read p4-10-
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Almost50 Monkey Business
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I finished my reread and have adifferent view of the game now. I think scum are in Eragon/Fromage/Poseidon (in that order).completely
VOTE: Eragon
Eragon has been doing some townie stuff indeed, but taking a look at the bigger picture they seem to have been done for show. He often tried to feed the fire (especially on the Inferno/Manatee slots) but stayed uncommitted (by vote) for most of the time. If you take his posts separately you will probably TR him for each single one of them, but combined they didn't give the same impression. Also 377 for example is scummy enough on it's own.
I know this one's gonna be met by some strong opposition by many who have been TRing Eragon hard, and while I have played him before I do not have a strong meta on him either, so this is a read based purely on his play/posts in this thread.
If this flips scum then the cross voting with Fromage feels off. However, Poseidon being totally unavailable if late gives me the irks too.
P-edit: Oh, well. Tor caught me red handed. What can I do? *Shrug*
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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very nuanced thoughts on bujaber and highly unlikely to come from mafia.In post 90, Egg wrote:
Basically. It's the way he's handled inferno in general. Just all out attacking the idea. Going after the guy who is calling him confirmed town. It looks like town who sees bad logic and is calling it out. That said, he's voting manatee over inferno so it's not like he's doing anything that would remove inferno from the game, making it a relatively safe town cred play for scum. That's why he's not my strongest town read. It's enough that I don't want to Lynch him today though. You voted Eragon for fluff posting. What do you think of his content posts? Why does the fluff outweigh those?In post 84, Fromage wrote:
Why don't you tell us why you think BuJaber is town? Is it because he doesn't want to get townread for asking about the setup?In post 83, Egg wrote:I think BuJaber is town, but it's not because he reminded the Mod something was missing in the OP.
there was never a point in inferno's posting where he is casting shade on bujaber and he explained quite clearly how his "likely VT" read is on the unlikelihood of bujaber being either PR or scum. it's not a good read and certainly fakeable from bujaber, but his thoughts are clearly laid out in a very sensible way. IDK how backtracking on his statement is a "towny response"? clearly inferno believes what he is posting here.In post 92, Almost50 wrote:@BuJ: Yeah, it started like a mechanical read, but his reaction was doubling down on it rather than acknowledging he made a mistake. IMHO, a townie response was to stop when he said you could be a PR still and say spoke too fast or something. But he went on against odds (and logic) to try and convince me "likely VT" is indeed interchangeable with "likely Town".
GNB still casting shade on inferno in #96. "flailing even harder" is an uncharitable description of inferno's posting, and "flailing" is a vague enough verb that can mean anything and isn't descriptive of inferno's behaviour. he is not engaging with inferno or progressing any way with his read either.
on #98 GNB metadives manatee and my initial impression is that this is a really towny thing to be doing, but there's no conclusion or new take on manatee, and being this early it actually feels forced, like GNB is trying to get town credit by metadiving when he doesn't have any reason to.
if inferno is lynchbait, then why are you not defending him?In post 103, BuJaber wrote:Conflicted about burger. On the one hand it does seem like he's jumping to conclusions based on little evidence but that's slso a whole lot of effort just to build a case on inferno who is lynchbait frankly.
I'll continue this in a bit-
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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you can respond to my questions and thoughts about you!In post 482, Almost50 wrote:I finished my reread and have adifferent view of the game now. I think scum are in Eragon/Fromage/Poseidon (in that order).completely
VOTE: Eragon
Eragon has been doing some townie stuff indeed, but taking a look at the bigger picture they seem to have been done for show. He often tried to feed the fire (especially on the Inferno/Manatee slots) but stayed uncommitted (by vote) for most of the time. If you take his posts separately you will probably TR him for each single one of them, but combined they didn't give the same impression. Also 377 for example is scummy enough on it's own.
I know this one's gonna be met by some strong opposition by many who have been TRing Eragon hard, and while I have played him before I do not have a strong meta on him either, so this is a read based purely on his play/posts in this thread.
If this flips scum then the cross voting with Fromage feels off. However, Poseidon being totally unavailable if late gives me the irks too.
P-edit: Oh, well. Tor caught me red handed. What can I do? *Shrug*
what do you make of eragon fake hammering and then proceeding to clear me yesterday? I don't see the scum motivation in doing it.-
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Wh4t Goon
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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I was under the impression you townread A50
what changed?-
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Wh4t Goon
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I've talked a lot about A50. Please read my ISO.
I started off suspicious, put him as null/scumish. Asked him why he was scummy and town read him for his push back onto me. I then said I was concerned about A50 being scum because of his lynch happy posts.-
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Eragon Mafia Scum
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@Tor
I think that was a joke, becuase I said “___ is tastier Han ___”
And they responded
“Wel your neither do you must be trying to avoid votes”
I consider it NAI
@A50, I’ll look at it overall, but I saw you say something about being gone or shit
Ye, I completely lost this game, I get good about it the beginning, but ~page 10 I just lost all my WIM(which, for whoever asked it, basically stands for whim of the game and your activity and drive). I’m hoping to get back into it soon, but I’m just kinda bleh rn-
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Wh4t Goon
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What even is this?In post 482, Almost50 wrote:P-edit: Oh, well. Tor caught me red handed. What can I do? *Shrug*-
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Almost50 Monkey Business
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You claimed VT. Scum don't want to lynch a VT, or -at least- not before outing a PR. "Let's switch to someone else and see what they claim".. then if that's a PR .. WELL DONE. If not, then they don't need to worry about two slots, which helps when deciding on the NK. Simple.In post 484, Toranaga wrote: what do you make of eragon fake hammering and then proceeding to clear me yesterday? I don't see the scum motivation in doing it.
I haven'tcompletelyruled you out as scum. I just think it's very unlikely for you to be, and I'm willing to try and work with you for today in an attempt to actually lynch scum.
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Almost50 Monkey Business
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Some things never change!
I'll vote Poseidon IF there's enough support to wagon him.
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Almost50 Monkey Business
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The remark about activity concerns Poseidon. Your activity is plausible. I had to check on one of your most recent scum games though to verify you do post that much as scum (you had over 190 posts in one day phase, and it ended with your lynch as the Mafia Roe Cop, if it helps you recognize what game I checked. You were a replacement that came in on D3, as far as I can remember).In post 488, Eragon wrote: @A50, I’ll look at it overall, but I saw you say something about being gone or shit
Ye, I completely lost this game, I get good about it the beginning, but ~page 10 I just lost all my WIM(which, for whoever asked it, basically stands for whim of the game and your activity and drive). I’m hoping to get back into it soon, but I’m just kinda bleh rn
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Almost50 Monkey Business
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Oh, and you're still subscribed to that thread. I got it from your subjects in your profile page.
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Almost50 Monkey Business
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Is it a cow? Is it a Tree?? Is it a PLANE???In post 489, Wh4t wrote:
What even is this?In post 482, Almost50 wrote:P-edit: Oh, well. Tor caught me red handed. What can I do? *Shrug*
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Wh4t Goon
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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that's (mostly) a great post with a strong case for town!inferno. I can see why wh4t is so positive you're town.In post 133, BuJaber wrote: @Inferno - my statement is missing the words 'as town'. Inferno is lynchbait as town. He could be scum. But honestly as unhelpful as his posting has been (mainly defending himself) gun to my head I'd say he's town here. He feels attacked and spends all his time and effort defending himself. I'm not adept at reading someone like him because he's the type that makes it really difficult to townread. He distracts himself and distracts everyone and gets emotional.
Now granted I haven't seem his scum game but given that happens with him as town you have to really try and gauge his overall tone/motivations.
For example earlier I thought he was maybe buddying me. But considering he is attacking pretty much anyone who critiques or votes for him, there doesn't seem to be any interest in making friends. Unless he really thinks that if he convinces me he's town that I alone can change everyone's mind. That would be hilariously wrong as I'm rarely a town leader in any game, let alone in a playerbase that includes A50 and a few 5+ year veterans. So if it's not buddying then does that line of thinking and bad logic regarding my question to the mod make sense from scum pov? I don't really think so. Scum would be more self-conscious about using bad logic like that.
what are you talking about? who has good logic and solid understanding? inferno? if that's the case, then how are those things wolfy? is this sarcasm? IDGIIn post 139, Poseidon wrote:
Yeah I stand by my vote.In post 100, Inferno390 wrote:Oho
Burger has scumslipped in an attempt to get rid of me
He doesn’t know that the only scumgame I’ve ever played is one of the marathon games from last month. (A fact that both drives me crazy and I am very proud of because it gives me very good townmeta)
I have never been scumpartners with Manatee, not have I been partners with anyone else in the regular style of game.
VOTE: Burger
Join me, brothers. I have found the true scum!
Semi reply to Jaber, phone posting so shortish reply. I’m sensing a good depth of logic with Burger, and a solid understanding of the game. Can’t say if that’s pro-town read but it makes me a little confident
I like fromage's #144 a whole lot. it's a good case for game!scum with points I agree with
@A50 I thought you had manatee as town earlier. what changed?In post 176, Almost50 wrote:
Mine is:In post 174, Eragon wrote:{BuJaBer, Fromage, Almost50}
{Egg, poseidon}
{GameNBurger}
{Inferno, Manatee}
preliminary reads
{Egg, Eragon}
{BuJaBer}
{Fromage}
{poseidon}
{Inferno, Manatee, GameNBurger}-
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Eragon Mafia Scum
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hmmmmmmmmmmIn post 492, Almost50 wrote:
The remark about activity concerns Poseidon. Your activity is plausible. I had to check on one of your most recent scum games though to verify you do post that much as scum (you had over 190 posts in one day phase, and it ended with your lynch as the Mafia Roe Cop, if it helps you recognize what game I checked. You were a replacement that came in on D3, as far as I can remember).In post 488, Eragon wrote: @A50, I’ll look at it overall, but I saw you say something about being gone or shit
Ye, I completely lost this game, I get good about it the beginning, but ~page 10 I just lost all my WIM(which, for whoever asked it, basically stands for whim of the game and your activity and drive). I’m hoping to get back into it soon, but I’m just kinda bleh rn
this wasn't mine then, because I had a game where I replaced in D1 as the mafia role cop and got lynched D4 in endgame(Newbie 1882) and I replaced in (IDK what day) in newbie (1879??{Plotinus's} as the mafia goon and got lynched as tracker-confirmed scum}-
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Almost50 Monkey Business
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Is your connection THAT slow or are you amnesiac and have just remembered it?In post 495, Wh4t wrote:A50 what does Duck have to do with me reading you correctly?
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Almost50 Monkey Business
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In fact, what does this question have to do with your read on me? How will my answer help you get an accurate read on me?In post 495, Wh4t wrote:A50 what does Duck have to do with me reading you correctly?
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