Mini Normal 2024 - Endgame

[DrDolittle]

VOTE: BBT ez

[DrDolittle]

UNVOTE: Rei
VOTE: Irrelephant for not explaining his vote

VOTE: twain
grasping at straws much?

[DrDolittle]

he explains

[DrDolittle]

>What do you think of him now?
He moved from a -0.3 to a -0.1 pretty much.

Wtf does this even mean. Does -1 mean confirmed scum? So your strongest read is a -0.1? Are you like trying to park a vote for parking a vote sake? Can more people please get on this guy ffs?

[DrDolittle]

VOTE: Nauci

I don’t like how in the same post they give a description of irrelephant as an excellent scum player who can’t be caught by a single post only to then claim to have caught them by a single post. You gave no reference to their Town game and to me it reads like you trying to say “hey this guy’s dangerous as scum and you won’t be able to catch him, but don’t worry because I know exactly how they work and have already caught them for you!”

I entirely agree with this. Nausi's 81 seemed really contorted. I don't like it.

[DrDolittle]

And can someone tell me sth about DrDoli?
Same about BBT if possible…

Bump (I was asking mostly about meta btw)

I played with BBT and Alchemist like a couple years ago...

[DrDolittle]

Dr. Do Little are you a tone reader? You seem to be pushing that.

I wish
But if you don't have a lot of content to work with maybe tone of the post is a good place to start.

[DrDolittle]

And his response in 33 was tonally awful. It felt forced, as if he made the joke overly obvious so that people will understand clearly that he wasn’t trying to do anything.

And I don’t really like the fact that he didn’t take the time to seriously answer a question that
-was meant to be answered seriously.
-had the probability of creating a conversation.
It’s not that scum indicative, but fricking hell, is it really that difficult NOT to make a shitpost when people ask for content?

I'm kinda tempted to vote it even if only because of the tone of the 2-nd post, but I'm not entirely sure what would be the scum motivation there.

^ this guy is the real tone reader tho

[DrDolittle]

twain is also a veeery slight town read

why? Although I agree with you that I feel a more weak town vibe from Tchill

[DrDolittle]

VOTE: Northsidegal Rumor has it her scum game is just lurking

I thought about doing this but it's so early in the game ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So...

Can we get some votes on this?

Votes on Nauci or NSG? If so why is your vote not on there yet?

[DrDolittle]

Uhhh...Nauci. Who I am voting and whose post I quoted...

you immediately said that after that you also think nsg is scum so I assumed that you were agreeing with nauci...

[DrDolittle]

I liked TWAIN's 213 and 233. UNVOTE:

The small amount of townlean I had on Twain is fading quickly. I find that last reads list the most hard to believe - you seem to be actually scumreading other people's play but because I had some typos/website issues, I deserve your vote? [...]

Townreading Nauci and nsg, and more than happy to sheep them onto someone I don't townread VOTE: Mumble

- Is this a first order OMGUS on twain??? So you agree that he's scumreading people's plays, but also that you don't believe the reads?

- Town reads on NSG (who's done nothing all game to get towncred)+ Nauci (a flip from an earlier scumread? for what? Nauci's post has been pretty consistent in nature, so any reads should also be consistent) and sounds like a casual excuse to go on a mumble's wagon wtf

VOTE: irrelephant

[DrDolittle]

But that is a little misreppy, nauci - Notice that *my* vote is for pressure and reactions. *Her* vote is apparently because I'm scummy for not providing reasons. If that scumread expires (not super sure why it's there in the first place), I would think it would make more sense to move on, either to another scumread or to create pressure and generate discussion. Instead, she sits on me. Do her actions make sense to you?

?? cool i guess calling someone out for misrepping you is now a town read ??
real good to know thx.

[DrDolittle]

This

feels like a grasping for straws case when the wagon on me lost momentum...

Why don't you elaborate your thought mechanism behind this: Assume you are town. I am scum for because instead of trying to push your wagon forward I'm actively scumhunting?

Nauci + Irrelephant scum you heard it here first guys.

Would also explain that terribly awkward early interaction.

[DrDolittle]

I mean

I didn't think that her misrepresentation of me is towny per se

, but I also know that she's paranoid of me as town, and has done all the things I could potentially scumread her for here - when we were both town. That obviously doesn't *clear* her, but it doesn't make me suspicious in the same way it would if she were playing the same paranoid misreppy way around another player. Basically, I think the misrep was a misunderstanding in this case. Nauci doesn't need to go after me as the mislynch as scum, especially when it's getting

her

much more negative attention.

This looks exactly like town Nauci so far

- paranoid of me, anti-lurkers at first, trying to provide all her thoughts and reads when she can... We don't have many games between us atm, but I've seen her as both alignments, and nothing reminds me more of scum!nauci than town!nauci. It's possible she's putting on a performance as scum just for me, but I suspect she would want to change up her game, call it new meta, and not get so much heat for the way she plays the early game (this isn't the first time).

I feel like other players are scumreading her just for the sake of scumreading her, so I'm calling that as I see it.

I also like just said I would stop defending her, because it's possible I'm wrong. But inb4 someone sees me answering your questions here and is like "oOoOoh look he's

still

defending her, they're the team"

Spoiler: Quoting the stuff that made me feel this way

IIRC, Mumble is a bit lurky but I don't remember too much about his games I've skimmed.

Town!NSG is a very capable player who will bleed towness as the game progresses. Haven't seen scum!NSG.

Town!chill is less town screaming and effort posting as NSG, but is quite capable as town. I haven't seen scumchilll before.

Rei adorkable posts afaik and I have no alignment indicative info to glean from that.

IDK any of the other players.

I don't think it's a strong read but I agree with your BBT case

of course it's not
but if you agree, do you wanna switch to him? your pressure on irrel did exactly nothing and I don't think continuing it will do anything early d1. How about switching to the other players? who do you wanna lynch rn?

I kinda park on my RVS vote for a long time until I figure out where I want to go, and I haven't figured that out yet.

Ngl, I'm not a fan of that playstyle. If your pressure is doing nothing, don't waste time and just do sth else. You've gotta have some leans at this point of the game and it really won't hurt you to place a vote there.
I'm actually kinda thankful for you writing all that stuff about irre, but it's not something that can be sorted at the beginning of the game imo.
Can you post brackets or sth like that?

I actually reread the thread a couple of times Friday and Saturday to try and figure out where I wanted to pressure, but couldn't settle any where in particular among the people I don't town read, and think that Irrelephant isn't any worse or better than those wagons. I think the DDL wagon is more effective w/o the person he's voting on it, and I don't think Irrelephant has been towny yet and that he does respond to pressure.

I'd say my reads at the moment are

Slight Town Lean:

ejjnami
tchill
twain

Conflicted Null:

BBT
Mumble
DDL

Unknown null:

Irrelephant
Rei
Alchemist

Slight Scum Lean:

NSG
Lalendra
Kop

But with half of the game not having post much and a bias against lurkers, it's hard to say.

My experience with NSG is that she's more talkative later in the game but casually chatty in the beginning, but I thought she'd been kinda busy in general lately (though, that *is* weird to then /in games). I thought I'd wait until tomorrow since people are inactive on the weekends.

Quick look up of the 3 players with 1 post only:

-NSG I've already talked about
-Lalendra seems to always be lynchbait (I mean, she's even got quotes about her in her profile on that) and doesn't post much (1x/day at most), with very little activity in the last few weeks
-Kop is slightly more active than Lalendra but also pretty quiet, and of few words

So that's disappointing.

Actually it might seem slightly silly but the attention to detail from alchemist in 158 in combination with his post about me has me slightly leaning town on him

I'm feeling pretty good about Alch

Not super great about Rei, who I'm pretty sure has the capacity to step it way up

After doing this ISO though I agree her votes have mostly been pretty bad

[DrDolittle]

Someone explain the Nauci wagon to me, because

I really don't think she's the scummiest player so far

in a game with Kop, Lalendra, twain, DDL, and lurky!NSG???

Mumble even had a particularly bad progression of "Vote: Nauci" [no reasons given] --> Nauci posted --> "Look at this post! Vote her, she's scum" [no reasons given]

I'm not convinced this wagon has a better composition than the Mumble one did when it was criticized, either.

oops almost forgot this gem

[DrDolittle]

ok but what are you trying to tell us by this
do you mean how he said he didnt find her towny but then called her towny? If so I find it strange that in the first quote you highlighted the part that makes it seem like a contradiction
because when i read the rest of the paragraph it made sense to me and he says later that her being scummy is somehow scummy
If I'm wrong about what you meant then by all means correct me

I highlight posts, where Irrelephant flips and flops on nauci - hints that shes scum, then calls her town, then soft defends her by saying that everyone is piling on her wagon for shit reasons, and then proceeds to say "ah yeah I can she why her votes are scummy"

this is flip flop flipity flop at the finest

If scum-nauci, this is irrelephant soft-defending partner, but having the option to bus.
If town-nauci, this is irrelephant setting up to potentially i told you so, but still be able to vote nauci if the situtation dictates so.

[DrDolittle]

tbh im not seeing lalendra scum

[DrDolittle]

Yeah I mean I get not wanting to lynch lynchbait (as Nauci said Lalendra is)
I also get wanting to lynch active lurkers

*shrug* yeah Lalendra could maybe be the lynch

???????????????????????????
This is terrible reason for lynching anyone fyi.

[DrDolittle]

It's mostly gut feeling but I feel like he's somehow just slipping there, and every time someone starts to suspect him or vote him the focus switches on someone else

I don't have any intentions to be slipping anywhere. Feel free for anyone to scrutinize me.

[DrDolittle]

tbh im not seeing lalendra scum

Why?

tbh im not seeing lalendra scum

Why?

I went through her posts in context. I don't think there's anything scummy in her actions. You can argue its a lack of actions that makes her scummy but I think inactivity is a relative null tell day 1.

[DrDolittle]

I agree with Rei that I'm also not up to lynching tchill.

[DrDolittle]

I'm honestly super fucking baffled at what's going on. Alchemist + BBT both voted Kop and then immediately after like 20 posts Alchemist switches to tchill and BBT gets ready for a Tchill push
Can you guys both elaborate what the fuck is going on?
Like between your lasts votes and your previous post what has changed.

Also can we get more votes on irrelephant? Please?

[DrDolittle]

VOTE: Kop

why? just because you are town reading the rest of the wagon?

[DrDolittle]

I highlight posts, where Irrelephant flips and flops on nauci - hints that shes scum, then calls her town, then soft defends her by saying that everyone is piling on her wagon for shit reasons, and then proceeds to say "ah yeah I can she why her votes are scummy"

this is flip flop flipity flop at the finest

If scum-nauci, this is irrelephant soft-defending partner, but having the option to bus.
If town-nauci, this is irrelephant setting up to potentially i told you so, but still be able to vote nauci if the situtation dictates so.

Mumble see this does that change your mind?

[DrDolittle]

@DrDoli Irrelephant is not going to get lynched today.
neither is BBT nor Alchemist imo.
So if you want to be helpful, how about you try to pick someone among the players who could actually get lynched?
Do not make your vote useless.

yeah you are probably right. who are the leading wagons right now? Is it just between nauci and kop and tchill? ill try to think hard on this tomorrow. Am I missing anyone?

[DrDolittle]

I don't generally do reads, especially on day one. You can go and review a lot of my other games that I've played on here and you'll see that I don't do reads often. I prefer to play the game by using conversations with people that gives me reads that I generally keep to myself.

Why share all my raisins exactly?why let scum know if I'm on them and why I'm on them?

Explaining reads and trying to convince other players to vote for the person you think is scum? Am I still playing mafia?

[DrDolittle]

Lol so
if <Nauci is a player in this game> then
<Vote Irrelephant>

Why is flip flopping scummy, again?

No, this is a misrepresentation. I'm saying that I can see you as scum regardless of Nauci's alignment, and not relying on pre-flip associations, which are at heart terrible. Flip flop is scummy because it gives scum option value to change their reads as the game unfolds. In particular, you are not flip flopping because you are ambivalent about nauci (see my previous quotes of your action)

PS I'm extremely suspicious at the nauci wagon as it dropped from 5 votes to 0 votes.

[DrDolittle]

Doing some re-reading

I liked TWAIN's 213 and 233. UNVOTE:

The small amount of townlean I had on Twain is fading quickly. I find that last reads list the most hard to believe - you seem to be actually scumreading other people's play but because I had some typos/website issues, I deserve your vote? [...]

Townreading Nauci and nsg, and more than happy to sheep them onto someone I don't townread VOTE: Mumble

- Is this a first order OMGUS on twain??? So you agree that he's scumreading people's plays, but also that you don't believe the reads?

- Town reads on NSG (who's done nothing all game to get towncred)+ Nauci (a flip from an earlier scumread? for what? Nauci's post has been pretty consistent in nature, so any reads should also be consistent) and sounds like a casual excuse to go on a mumble's wagon wtf

VOTE: irrelephant

I always struggle with OMGUS-ing as town, so please @all let me know if I'm wrong here, but this feels like DDL

wanting

to see me as scum and intentionally misrepping/overreacting. Like I clearly didn't say "I agree Twain is scumreading people's plays, but I don't believe the reads". I said "I think a lot of Twain's reads make sense, but then to vote me for such a bad reason - I can't be sure this is coming from town".
I guess it's possible I come across as JUST. THAT. SCUMMY but this whole post just feels OTT - even if he fully believes what he's saying, does it necessitate such a strong reaction?

I also wonder if "NSG (who's done nothing all game to get towncred)" is a partner slip, but this is mostly a note for later, not a reason to scumread either player.

You are backtracking. Hard. In the original post you clearly did say,

"I find that last reads list the most hard to believe"

What does this mean? It means, I don't believe the reads. Then you say

"you seem to be actually scumreading other people's play"

what does this mean? well this literally says you believe Twain is scumreading people's play.

Then you disagree with twain's vote on you, which you claim to be a bad reason, but for the record is

And did you really not mean to? I now see what Nauci was warning about, these posts of yours really feel like you're putting on an act.

compared to her other scum reads

Kop - only 5 posts, but actually bothered to take part in RVS? Possible scum.
Mumble - he's made 5 reads so far, yet given no reason for any of them. Too passive. Somewhat scum.
BBT - ejjinami's case on him isn't bad, and in addition he's been tunnelling Tchill from the very beginning of the game, despite camouflaging it with reading other people. Somewhat scum, could also be lyncher.

The one on you is clearly the strongest. So if you think that twain has good reads, then you must accept that her vote on you is not trivial and for "such a bad reason" as you claim

regarding my reaction, > I'm an emotional player > that post was so slimy > I don't even think my post was that "overreactionary" as you claim...

Yeah I mean I get not wanting to lynch lynchbait (as Nauci said Lalendra is)
I also get wanting to lynch active lurkers

*shrug* yeah Lalendra could maybe be the lynch

???????????????????????????
This is terrible reason for lynching anyone fyi.

@DDL what did you think was my reasoning here?

Your reason, I presume as you spelled out is that Lalendra is an active lurker? I don't believe in the d1 lynch active lurker philosophy

re: my 443

What part of Alchemist & BBT having similar reads is "super fucking baffl"ing?

It's not that they have similar reads, I'm just confused at the rapid shift of opinion.
also to the people saying that that post is town and "sharp insights", it definitely was not sharp - it was just me saying that i don't understand what was going on....

[DrDolittle]

I'm naturally thinking the scum slip lalendra mentioned, is the fact that Tchill said what if I was town rather than knowing he is town. Or I'm reading it wrong and lalendra is going to have to expand further on it.

don't like this kop post. the scum slip was a silly read and he's really trying to push molehill into a mountaim

What if Tchill’s just scum and all of Mumble, Nauci, and Kop are Town?

VOTE: Tchill

What if tchills just town and all three of those are scum?

I have as much basis for my statement as you do. None.

Scumslip? If you knew your role PM was green you'd have at least SOME basis for that statement. Also really not feeling that progression on Kop, or the hard press on the lurkers.

VOTE: Tchill

So here's her post. I actually see the scumslip - "what if tchill's town and [any combination of words]? I have no basis for that" suggests he doesn't believe himself to be town. Like I said I don't know if this really is one, but I enjoy when people call out scumslips, because as I mentioned I caught scum on them before. That's why I like the post. It also certainly suggests Lalendra/tchill is never S/S.

see previous, also feeling a bit weird that you see "scumslip" on TChill, has him as your biggest scumread and still park vote on kop

(post 488) I’ll lynch anyone under “null” in my reads. Right now Kop is the bigger wagon, is all

yes i know you said this, but by that time tchill has a healthy wagon built up? All i see is just inconsistencies from your play that points to you being advantageous scum.

[DrDolittle]

Yeah... I like his play less the further I go
But he doesn't seem to care?

Which... is a little WIFOM-y but I guess on balance townier.
My scumread has certainly been waning but I didn't want to let up pressure yet. I look forward to your thoughts on him

I think my other question was about alchemist? I don't see what either you or tchill think is scummy about him?

Actually unless NSG has a drastic turnaround before EOD she's my new fav lynch. VOTE: northsidegal

I N C O N S I S T E N T
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[DrDolittle]

TChill

- While I think the anti-lurker crusade hasn't been the best use of Tchill's abilities, I think that it smells of genuine town sentiments and a determination to punish lurker sentiments.

Kop

- Just too many posts that have content but say nothing about this game. His reads have disappeared as

more

content has poured in. Maybe he can flip this but we're running out of time

By and large I agree with this if I had to choose TChill vs Kop for today's lynch. Pref a Kop lynch by far, but hoping an irrelephant wagon could surge more last minute.

[DrDolittle]

I don't have intimate familiarity with your meta, but I've heard a lot about it lately for reasons. Your one spike of activity earlier this game day was entirely about whether or not Lalendra is lynchbait, and then a meta townread on Nauci. Neither of those were new thoughts, and I suspect you're parroting town to try to look like you're putting in effort.

I haven't played Mafia in 2/3 years, just started again so I don't think my meta is relevant?

You can call me scum all you want, but please don't say I'm not putting in effort. I've been juggling a heavy work load over the past week or so and still committing quite a couple of hours every day into the game.

+ I don't remember ever discussing Nauci's meta?

[DrDolittle]

Don't forget guys that DDL is prob scum.

Kop/DDL are scum. Unsure on the last one.

Here you say you think I'm probably scum, but less so than Kop (am I interpretting unsure on the last one right?). Why am I scum?

It could be town.

It could be scum looking for an avenue to push back on a townie? I didn't like TChill's read at all though. If we could, I would lynch TChill or DDL over Kop.

Two posts later you say Kop could be town and you prefer to lynch me over Kop???

[DrDolittle]

^ Oh gotcha

[DrDolittle]

What’s your reason for scumreading Dr Dolittle?

Mostly surface level scum hunting. Like, his scum hunting doesn't feel real if that makes sense?

Agreed with the above DDL lynch

You know what, if you disagree with my case on irrelephant, or think its shallow, then point out where it is. I think I built a solid case on how inconsistent irrelephant's reads are inconsistent and even forcing her to admit it

DDL you're not wrong that my play is kinda inconsistent. It just also happens to be town, so I guess I'll just let you get over the inconsistencies. I've already answered for my reasoning on all the play you have issue with.

I think whats going on instead is that you are attacking me (rather than my case) to defend irrelephant.

[DrDolittle]

and DrDoli, what are your reads after irre's town flip?

I need to reread and reevaluate tonight.

I think it's off Bbt didn't open up with a push on me

Irrelephant was an easy nk for scum. I think only one person was worried about him being scum.

?

[DrDolittle]

I'll be completely honest, I was tunnelling irrelephant yesterday, and the flip caught me by surprise and I didn't have another strong scum read carrying over from yesterday. After rereading, my top 2.5 scum prospects are

BBT: his votes all of yesterday were very opportunistic on Nauci and on Kop. His reason on Nauci was that a post read fluff and 'safe', ignoring the fact that Nauci has been one of the leading posters and putting in effort at 163 (other than the weird 81 post praising irrel). The reason seems fake as hell, and more like an excuse to push to a lynch (Nauci was at L-3 and BBT was the 4th piling vote) Then, BBT switches to Kop as sees that wagon gaining momentum - and doesn't fully commit to Kop " If we could, I would lynch TChill or DDL over Kop." as if he knows kop will flip town, meanwhile setting up a lynch on me and tchill and potentially irre.

NSG: NSG has contributed nothing so far to this game in terms of scumhunting. Her interaction with Irrelephant reads scum. I also dont like the blatant buddying up to creature (i think with potential goal that if buddied up, creatures prolific posting can balance out her lurking a bit??), and i'm inclined to believe people's meta read on lurking scum!nsg after glancing a couple of her scum game

ejjinami: his posts have been prolific and has not been seriously scrutinzied, but honestly there's not too much substance in these posts. Early game there was a couple of scum hunting, but by late, it was mostly asking questions (but not in a way that is trying to find scum - more like trying to gauge how people feel...) and commenting of gameplay style. Idk there's just smthing odd in his posts that rub me in a wrong way, but honestly more of a gut read.

VOTE: BBT

[DrDolittle]

I'm so frustrated that there are no concrete cases against me fleshed out so I can defend myself and attn can be focused on getting scum.
To recap these cases
BBT's "surface-level-hunting"
TChill's "his name has been thrown around as scum"
Rei's "He seemed really floaty tbh, and his reads were kinda shallow so i wanted to test the wagon... I feel like he's somehow just slipping there, and every time someone starts to suspect him or vote him the focus switches on someone else"

My bad feelings about BBT stayed the same, and I think I feel worse about NSG

I think NSG is a solid lynch for today, but BBT has a higher chance of flipping scum.

From my pov this is you distancing from a scum partner and blaming me once that Scum partner flips.

You've pushed DDL all game.

You're gonna be insta lynched when sajj flips scum.

This actually makes sense. However, I didn't really sr lalendra yesterday, and still rereading today I thhink she/scion is mostly null. I'm willing to give scion a couple more days to fully catch up.

[DrDolittle]

ebtwp I agree with ejj's post above

[DrDolittle]

Not satisfied with Scioness' content.

not satisfied with your content.

[DrDolittle]

Not satisfied with Scioness' content.

not satisfied with your content.

Nice attempt here

to get you to post more content? yeah I tried.

[DrDolittle]

nsg - her iso in underwhelming i will be flipfloppy on this slot but i don't think she has posted anything game progressing mostly just commentary that didn't add much to the game. i'm waiting on her posts when she gets back here though because it could be just her disengaged self.
rei - nothing she posted early seemed town to me. her read on tchill was also weird (as i have read tchill post about townreading her as a joke but that will stay unsolved now so w/e), something felt of about her convo with mumble. she made a readlist that i like later in the day but then she came back to kop lynch and she was somewhat soft pushing him like she was afraid drawing attention to herself/knew she was pushing a mislynch.

are these weak scum reads or strong scum reads?

[DrDolittle]

vla till saturday noon

due to unexpected workload - but hopefully will be back earlier

I'll get to answering your qs @scion @nauci, but most of it can be found here: I'll elaborate more when I get back

I'll be completely honest, I was tunnelling irrelephant yesterday, and the flip caught me by surprise and I didn't have another strong scum read carrying over from yesterday. After rereading, my top 2.5 scum prospects are

BBT: his votes all of yesterday were very opportunistic on Nauci and on Kop. His reason on Nauci was that a post read fluff and 'safe', ignoring the fact that Nauci has been one of the leading posters and putting in effort at 163 (other than the weird 81 post praising irrel). The reason seems fake as hell, and more like an excuse to push to a lynch (Nauci was at L-3 and BBT was the 4th piling vote) Then, BBT switches to Kop as sees that wagon gaining momentum - and doesn't fully commit to Kop " If we could, I would lynch TChill or DDL over Kop." as if he knows kop will flip town, meanwhile setting up a lynch on me and tchill and potentially irre.

NSG: NSG has contributed nothing so far to this game in terms of scumhunting. Her interaction with Irrelephant reads scum. I also dont like the blatant buddying up to creature (i think with potential goal that if buddied up, creatures prolific posting can balance out her lurking a bit??), and i'm inclined to believe people's meta read on lurking scum!nsg after glancing a couple of her scum game

ejjinami: his posts have been prolific and has not been seriously scrutinzied, but honestly there's not too much substance in these posts. Early game there was a couple of scum hunting, but by late, it was mostly asking questions (but not in a way that is trying to find scum - more like trying to gauge how people feel...) and commenting of gameplay style. Idk there's just smthing odd in his posts that rub me in a wrong way, but honestly more of a gut read.

VOTE: BBT

[DrDolittle]

Ok I'm here.

[DrDolittle]

BBT: his votes all of yesterday were very opportunistic on Nauci and on Kop. His reason on Nauci was that a post read fluff and 'safe', ignoring the fact that Nauci has been one of the leading posters and putting in effort at 163 (other than the weird 81 post praising irrel). The reason seems fake as hell, and more like an excuse to push to a lynch (Nauci was at L-3 and BBT was the 4th piling vote) Then, BBT switches to Kop as sees that wagon gaining momentum - and doesn't fully commit to Kop " If we could, I would lynch TChill or DDL over Kop." as if he knows kop will flip town, meanwhile setting up a lynch on me and tchill and potentially irre.

I mean, the whole lack of progression on reads thing because he was tunneling D1 doesn't set off any red flags for you?

Like, he completely avoids having to be consistent with his reads or reevaluate his play by simply stating that he was so focused on Irrelphant D1 that he literally had NOTHING ELSE to contribute to the gamestate so had to 'reset'.

Come on. Who is buying that?

This is a huge misrep. You can read my day 1 -it’s public. I did have no other strong reads, and after tunneling irrelephant all day. Anything I say today would be consistent since there was nothing to map to.

Creature, Alch, please comment on this.

@DDL As I stated above, please do a reasonably detailed write up of how the irrelephant flip and other info has influenced your re-evaluations of everyone

The nightkill was on an active towny but irre didn’t directly threaten anyone is confusing. I think what happened is that scum!BBT was setting up to strongarm a lynch today, by specifically get rid of my single scum read so that I would be confused in the beginning of the day, and he can set up a string of attack.
As Tchill said

ML DDL, Lynch LALendra, ML me.. 3 other town nk'd. so thats 5 townies BBT would have taken out right there.

This is very much looks to me like a lynch-plan based NK.

Also can you guys comment on BBT asking other people to provide scum reasonings of me rather than advancing them himself until much much later

His 'reasons' for scum reading me can also be applied to Alchemist, Mumble, TChill and Lalendra.
So, I'd very much like to know why I'm so special and how he has identified that I am scum over any one of those.

Because
1- Confirmation bias. I know I’m town and that you are pushing me
2- Your movement onto Kop was strictly a momentum move. You were playing both hands trying to maneuver your way onto an easy lynch.
3- LJL at you thinking my reason applys to these other guys. TChill was very explicit about why he was voting, and even if sometimes it wasn’t for the best reason. Mumble and Lalendra didn’t nearly have the opportunistic voting and intent to vote patterns. Alch I think is town – in particular #555 is a town interaction to town!irrelephant flip. You are the only one who’s votes have been opportunistic as fuck.

Interesting that every (?) replacement is scum reading me. If you're town, you need to evaluate the game-state and realise what is happening.
I'm being pushed for a reason. Ask yourself, why?

If every replacement is scumreading you, after they independently perused the game, then maybe I don’t know you are scummy, and needs to be lynched.
But I’m glad that you are dragging me into the spotlight. This also drags yourself into the spotlight.

Is that now 3 people scum reading DDL but not voting him?

This is what makes me think my wagon/potential wagon is scum heavy. There’s a lot of me-scum being thrown around, but there's hesitation of getting on my wagon. It seems like other scum partners might be looking for more momentum before hopping on.

[DrDolittle]

BBT: his votes all of yesterday were very opportunistic on Nauci and on Kop. His reason on Nauci was that a post read fluff and 'safe', ignoring the fact that Nauci has been one of the leading posters and putting in effort at 163 (other than the weird 81 post praising irrel). The reason seems fake as hell, and more like an excuse to push to a lynch (Nauci was at L-3 and BBT was the 4th piling vote) Then, BBT switches to Kop as sees that wagon gaining momentum - and doesn't fully commit to Kop " If we could, I would lynch TChill or DDL over Kop." as if he knows kop will flip town, meanwhile setting up a lynch on me and tchill and potentially irre.

What do you define as an 'opportunistic vote'? Is every 4th vote on a wagon opportunistic? Because the only disagreement with my reasoning you have stated is that it seems 'fake as hell' which is hard to quantify and hard to dismiss. Like, how does it seem fake?

You also say 'putting in effort' and 'leading poster' as if that is somehow alignment indicative and negates my reasoning for voting Nauci. Effort is not indicative of alignment and neither is posting a lot. Why is the vote on Nauci seen as opportunistic and not advancement of the game state and pushing of a scum read? Early game wagons are always beneficial - even more so if the leading wagon is a scum read. So when you actually look at your disagreement of my Nauci push it actually comes down to you looking for an angle to attack me from.

Additionally, to dilute my post/read on Nauci to 'fluff and safe' is underselling what I wrote. I responded to a particular post and discussed in detail what I didn't like about it (which was quite a lot for an early game read, 291).

As for Kop, my first mention of a dislike for Kop's play came in 291 when Kop only had one vote. In 323 I again mention my dislike for Kop's play to this point of the game. And again in 326. At this point, Kop still only has one vote. I continue to address my disliking of Kop's play in 390 and then I finally vote him in 417 when he can become the leading wagon and a real lynch candidate. At what point am I allowed to vote a scum read? How is this vote opportunistic?

Will get to the rest in a moment.

quickly... this is troubling. this is the exact same post as I had in 795 that I included as reference. The fact that (I think) you didnt catch that and that you are responding as a fresh accusation means that when you said my 795 was bad you barely read it.

[DrDolittle]

yes its a rapid update and a note. i will respond to the contents later.

[DrDolittle]

+ you didnt answer the question. did you read my 795 or not, not that were you aware of the post

[DrDolittle]

if you read it then why did you not realize it was a repeat post from 1139

[DrDolittle]

BBT: his votes all of yesterday were very opportunistic on Nauci and on Kop. His reason on Nauci was that a post read fluff and 'safe', ignoring the fact that Nauci has been one of the leading posters and putting in effort at 163 (other than the weird 81 post praising irrel). The reason seems fake as hell, and more like an excuse to push to a lynch (Nauci was at L-3 and BBT was the 4th piling vote) Then, BBT switches to Kop as sees that wagon gaining momentum - and doesn't fully commit to Kop " If we could, I would lynch TChill or DDL over Kop." as if he knows kop will flip town, meanwhile setting up a lynch on me and tchill and potentially irre.

What do you define as an 'opportunistic vote'? Is every 4th vote on a wagon opportunistic? Because the only disagreement with my reasoning you have stated is that it seems 'fake as hell' which is hard to quantify and hard to dismiss. Like, how does it seem fake?

You also say 'putting in effort' and 'leading poster' as if that is somehow alignment indicative and negates my reasoning for voting Nauci. Effort is not indicative of alignment and neither is posting a lot. Why is the vote on Nauci seen as opportunistic and not advancement of the game state and pushing of a scum read? Early game wagons are always beneficial - even more so if the leading wagon is a scum read. So when you actually look at your disagreement of my Nauci push it actually comes down to you looking for an angle to attack me from.

Additionally, to dilute my post/read on Nauci to 'fluff and safe' is underselling what I wrote. I responded to a particular post and discussed in detail what I didn't like about it (which was quite a lot for an early game read, 291).
As for Kop, my first mention of a dislike for Kop's play came in 291 when Kop only had one vote. In 323 I again mention my dislike for Kop's play to this point of the game. And again in 326. At this point, Kop still only has one vote. I continue to address my disliking of Kop's play in 390 and then I finally vote him in 417 when he can become the leading wagon and a real lynch candidate. At what point am I allowed to vote a scum read? How is this vote opportunistic?

Will get to the rest in a moment.

An opportunistic vote under my read is when you throw shade on lots of people, and only start voting once it gains traction. 293 and 326 both shows your your commitment to Nauci as you repeatedly ask others to vote her. On your reasoning, Here's what you said about Nauci's post (291) - is this your "discussed in detail“？

This looks like a scum post, trying to look like they're engaging with the game. So many words and yet so little said. Like, two separate null categories is just bad, but it's there to fluff the 'reads-list' out a little. Not to mention the reads are very safe.

The detailed read is literally that Nauci separarated her read list into a people who are null that have lots of information and little information. There's no way its alignment indicative, and maybe imo even a little town. Also you need to put this post into context where he is trying to get a stronger wagon on Nauci. However, I do agree that the 4th vote on Nauci is weak. That was by pg 3, and might have been just by chance, and I agree with 132 that nauci's post on irre seems a little set up and awkward, but my deal is that BBT despite having strong 'reads' on nauci and wanting other people to vote her, changed votes to kop.

On your read progression of Kop: guys please click on the link
291 - A response to a Kop saying "I mean, it could also be argued that scum reading TChill for pushing lurkers is an equally 'easy' read to give/push."
323 - "Not only is Kop a low poster but what he has posted has been bad."
326- "If you're gonna vote a low poster, it needs to be Kop. "
390 - Reponse to Tchill "Effort isn't alignment indicative, And what reads has he [Kop] given?"
Does this look like scum read PROGRESSION which leads to a scum read in 417? Or does that look like shade throwing and eventually placing a vote till the wagon on Kop gathers votes?

Yeah sure not every 4th vote is opportunistic, but its a reasonable approximation. The fact that you were 4th on BOTH kop and nauci wagon，one after the other, and especially jumping to kop after nauci fizzes (and then a setup onto tchill/me after kop wagon stalls a bit) is really suspicious.

[DrDolittle]

I'm going to try to hit up my readlist again so that I can get some updates

Playerlist:
1) Creature TWAIN lean scum. I don't see Creature as transparent. His post is rubbing me in a wrong way. I see reads. But I don't see reasons behind the reads, and Im getting suspiciuous that all these posts are scum based content desgined to clutter thread.

@creature

you note that scum!bbt doesn't make that kill. Can you respond to my theory of scum!bbt trying to set up today's lynch today on me with that kill?
2) BlueBloodedToffee scum. see my post history.
3) HeWhoSwims Mumble null. I'm null on mumble and i'm null on hws. actually if someone can tell me why they read mumble town that would be nice.
4) Alchemist21 town Alch's actions have been solid, transparent. They look town driven.
5) Nauci lean town. Nauci has been transparant. I liked her post from 81 onwards. In general she's maintaining her own reads, and questioning reads she doesn't understand or agree with.
6) ejjinami lean scum. My reads on him has not changed from 795. Ejj has been a little flakey today.
7) Toranaga northsidegal lean scum See read on NSG. I don't see enough from Toranaga to change my read, but I'm also less concerned that he did notput out a vote after 33 posts, since most of these posts are kinda fluff. Am watching this slot carefully.
8) Scioness Sajj Lalendra town I like Scion's + he didn't feel pressured by alch's threatening. The read progressions that scion advances today is good.
9) Krazy Tchill13 town. I thought Tchill is town. Krazy's post has not convinced me otherwise. I like that he's putting pressure onto new people, and he's giving reads pretty freely.
12) panthaleon Rei: town. I did't see the business with Rei scum day 1, and I think panthaleon's coming in has been town (he reads!)

[DrDolittle]

im pretty ready to do nothing except sheep ejj today

[DrDolittle]

no following the cop is exactly how you play a mafia game

[DrDolittle]

no following the cop is exactly how you play a mafia game

have you read all the posts from today?

im pretty ready to do nothing except sheep ejj today

write reads
Who do you want to lynch

yeah i have im following the cop.

[DrDolittle]

Oh we are all claiming? I'm JOAT, cop, doc, track kills only. I copped alch day 1 and got town. I tracked creafure day 2 and got no result.

[DrDolittle]

^ I mean my role is what it is, right + you can see I called you town day 2 for some pretty soft reasons.

[DrDolittle]

Oh we are all claiming? I'm JOAT, cop, doc, track kills only. I copped alch day 1 and got town. I tracked creafure day 2 and got no result.

Can you go into a bit of detail on why you chose them?

Not avoiding this. I'll get to it

I want the answer to this as well.

[DrDolittle]

sorry I quoted badly. I meant to say I'll get back to you on why I chose alch and creature. I'm on a family trip with a little limited access

but the tldr is alch is a strong player, and was being pretty neutral/polarizingly read. I was nervous that he was scum and could potentially taking over the game to strongarm lynches, so i wanted to make sure that day 2 comes i can trust his reads from town perspective.

on night 2, I just thought creature was potentially scum (see post 1226), but also that if he were scum, I think it is likely they would send him to do the kill as other people generally town-read him (compared to ejj and nsg my other two scum reads)

[DrDolittle]

im paranoid about ejj scum. that's why im only voting him or his guilty.

[DrDolittle]

N2 - HWS (gun owner)

is that where the investigation went?

[DrDolittle]

VOTE: ejj

[DrDolittle]

Lynch HWS
DDL docs ejji
ejji gunsmiths Nauci

works for me.

can we go over the scenario if hws flips town?

[DrDolittle]

yo ejj lets talk

[DrDolittle]

so my issue is that hws is town, you do your investigation tommorow, and we follow your scum claim (say you found one) and it's game. awfully convienient, isnt it.

[DrDolittle]

even if hws is scum, say you are bussing your partner to shit, clear a town tomorrow, and ride your conftown mobile straight to a scum win

[DrDolittle]

the good thing about cop guilites is that we can immediately verify if you investigation is fake. but now you say its just a reaction test, and that makes me really uncomfortable as if you realize that there is another investigative role in the mix which makes your claim less credible.

[DrDolittle]

and I'm not following

where

[DrDolittle]

VOTE: ejj

spicy
now elaborate on the vote please
and comment on my latest read on HWS while you're at it

bump

not avoiding the second line either. I like your case on HWS. I'm also willing to vote for HWS today. BUT Im not OK at how fast this push is, and the fact that we haven't discussed what happens if HWS flips town.

[DrDolittle]

waht? I never said that my guilty on HWS was a reaction test
Me waiting with revealing my check was a reaction test, you're either getting it wrong or idek what you're talking about

?? that's exactly what i meant.

[DrDolittle]

even if hws is scum, say you are bussing your partner to shit, clear a town tomorrow, and ride your conftown mobile straight to a scum win

Say HWS flips scum, I kill one clear (presumably Alch), I mislynch you then I kill the gunsmith:

Creature - Ascetic
Nauci - Cleared through gunsmith
Scioness Sajj - Cleared through gunsmith
panthaleon - Neighborizer

I would either need to push panthaleon being scum (somehow informed) neighborizer or last scum being doctor.

can you pronoun up?

[DrDolittle]

so my issue is that hws is town, you do your investigation tommorow, and we follow your scum claim (say you found one) and it's game. awfully convienient, isnt it.

Hey, I was writing an answer to that one, but if you actually think I’m scum, how about you just push me instead?
If you think HWS is gonna flip town and we should lynch me first, then make a case and we’ll discuss it.

The scenario you wrote is just shade.

even if hws is scum, say you are bussing your partner to shit, clear a town tomorrow, and ride your conftown mobile straight to a scum win

Again, don’t shade me
If you want to lynch me, make a case on me
And if you think we’re scummates, nothing changes. Elaborate on your read and let’s discuss it

VOTE: ejj

spicy
now elaborate on the vote please
and comment on my latest read on HWS while you're at it

bump

not avoiding the second line either. I like your case on HWS. I'm also willing to vote for HWS today. BUT Im not OK at how fast this push is, and the fact that we haven't discussed what happens if HWS flips town.

If it’s about the night actions, do whatever you want. You’ll be conf scum from my pov and I’ll be from yours, so I really don’t care about what action you want to claim rn
And if it’s about whom to lynch next, then this is obviously not the time to talk about that


So what’s the point?
Why don’t you like the fast push?
If you have any suggestions on what to do after a flip, don’t just say that “you don’t like how fast it’s going”, but just post them and continue the conversation

Seriously, I see absolutely no sense in it
it feels like you’re just trying to do whatever comes to your mind, just to avoid the lynch

I really am not. I think HWS is scum more than ejj and I don't have a case on you. All I want to say is that you (ejj-scum) is not outside the realm of possibility, by giving these two examples.
Before heading into the night on a HWS lynch, I want to understand how we should proceed depending on his flip. In particular (WIFOM aside), is ejj still conf town? Am I supposed to still doc him?

You say that if HWS flips town, I'm conf scum to you. Why is that? I also don't see why you're conf-scum to me. That's why I want to talk about it, is it too much to ask?

[DrDolittle]

DDL is practically scumclaiming with that Ejji vote

vote me then

[DrDolittle]

If you say that you think HWS is more likely scum than I, you liked my case on him and don't don't have a case on me, then I'd really like you to elaborate on your vote.

yeah fine I guess i'm being overly dramatic here. But I just want to stress to everyone that you are far from being conf town that everyone is treating you as

let's end the day.

VOTE: hws

[DrDolittle]

i think i have a smoking gun. if im scum!rb, I would not have gotten a n2 no result on creature.

[DrDolittle]

like regardless whether you think im scum or not, you have to admit that i'm an investigative role.

[DrDolittle]

DDL you posted those results after I wrote that my Neighborize action failed on Creature and Creature posted that he was Ascetic. It's not exactly difficult to fabricate an investigative role.

Based on who is left, I am happy to vote DDL and see if I actually have to rethink my town reads.

huh i must have missed that...

[DrDolittle]

Nauci is conf town now. If she's scum ejj has to be scum too but we know there's only 1 scum left

[DrDolittle]

im here

[DrDolittle]

yeah im not seeing how to get out of this, even if we lynch creature today. gg

[DrDolittle]

VOTE: drdo

[DrDolittle]

consent to releast mafia qt

i couldn't find a winning strategy by massclaim, but i might have been wrong...
ejj's gambit was rly clever.