Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

[Errantparabola]

Hey!!!

[Errantparabola]

UNVOTE:

@replacements: this game has had a lot of meaty posting starting as early as page 5 and I honestly recommend skimming everything. There are wall posts from people like irrelephant, skitter, myself, etc. where we respond to lots of little details which can be skipped, but read over any of the read list posts and votes that have happened thus far.

Thank you for giving me your blessing to skim with reckless abandon. Words will fly forth, in one ear and out the other.

[Errantparabola]

Irrelephant's 171 is the towniest post in the game (172 pretty town too but it's just in the standard way)

well well well if it isnt the worst replacement

worst, i gotta know-- do you get tired of these jokes?

I am very happy I am not being mass town read (so kinda liking Irrelephant11’s against-the-grind suspicion).

Also, this feels town. Yes, scum fake this sort of thing. But Key? Unlikely.

I think this is an important post and the first thing that compels me towards Keyser town
At this point, roughly, I think roughly Nauci and Irrelephant are my town
Conflicted on shoshin but the easiest opinion to have is definitely town.

I have a dumb reason to townread the worst that I might go into later but probably not so just assume I'm right :>

Focusing on Keyser and Bernie for now.
skitter gives me nothing either way but she formats her posts like I used to and that's officially Cool in My Book!

Hi TW, if you’re still there could you express why Bernie Sanders is “very towny”. You kept name dropping him, but couldn’t quite gauge the why and how from your posts.

hey, see?
I think worst's response to this question "oh he's just natural" seemed kind of fake so that's leaving me a little conflicted. Acknowledge that I could be biased because I don't agree with him though.

Please, I'm a way better rapper than Mutton Chump Magic
Freeze the comparisons or this gon be tragic

He was definitely punching well above average before this but it was around this post that I realized that Mathdino is the best poster in this game and deserves lynch immunity. Votes off on him immediately, I say.

A{Mathdino Irrelephant11 skitter30 Shoshin Bernie Sanders the worst stungun0404 Keyser Soze}
B{Nauci Momrangal Invisibility northsidegal Gamma Emerald}
arbitrary but mostly by content, tbh

you have to shoot 1 in each group right now, Who?

So firstly, this is the new towniest post in the game. In no universe does scum ever think to make a post like this.
Secondly.... probably Keyser and Gamma Emerald

I'm the greatest lyricist this site has ever known
Rob it of its innocence when I come into my own
Killthestory? Killed his story, turned LUV into history
Things get pretty gory when I come out of prehistory

I realize that I wasn't in this game when this comparison
Was made but Dino needs to get up and out of that chair he's in
And give himself some time to think about the words he's sayin,
And while he does that allow me a few minutes to weigh in

Mathdino thinks he's great?
I'd like to know what world his head is in
He's the best like if George W was best president
And I'm not talking about Washington, either
If I had to pick between Dino and Bush, I'd pick neither

But his lyrics give me the impression he wants a war,
So I'll follow up his verse and better it, like forty-four,
Everything you've ever known, Math, I've already learned it
So check the reservation on that throne, Math, I've earned it
I'm sorry I'm being impolite but I play dirty,
You think you're king?
Look who modded Open 630.

OUT!

[Errantparabola]

Resuming my skim.

Town or vague town or at least one concrete reason for town: the worst, Irre, Nauci, Shoshin, Bernie, Keyser --> especially Keyser, it's been refreshing to see me think something and then later on see Keyser post it.
the rest range from null to conflicted.

I think there's definitely something scummy about how skitter dances around her scumreads but I think it's in line with what i've seen from her, playstyle wise. More on this if necessary but that's where I'm at there.

549 is a pretty bad post from Momrangal.
Nauci's list in 674 is definitely not great and I think there's a good chance its fabricated and the towniest part is her self-meta section

828 is a towny replace out let's face it.

Okay, who the hell is Nauci and why is she the greatest player to grace mafiascum? Arguments are cogent beyond belief. Actually, extend that to a lot of players in this game. In my limited experiences, the 2018 crowd has been really great, I'd play mafia regularly with this crowd. That being said: my read on Nauci: ehhhhhhhh.

You showed an unwillingness to work with me. After reading your posts I no longer believe you are town. I won’t work with scum.

From a probabilistic perspective, scum says this more often than town I think, in the weighted sense
1048 is also bad

Gustavo I'd just solely read on the basis of stungun who I highly doubt could've had anything near that level of thought in his scumrange as a newbie

this is a towny read to have

EP, what's your position on Gamma and why?

Back when I said I'd shoot him it was null but so were pretty much all the other people in that gang.
Now it's null but only because I skimmed too fast to process anything he said
Seeing as it's the big wagon I'll take a peek at him later.

Irrelephant, I didn't think that post was that townie, it felt like the sort of thing scum who knows you're town would read it.

That's fair but also generally the only value I provide to the game. I'll be the first to admit that I'm a trash scumhunter. My last legimitate scumread was all the way back during Team Mafia, on Katyusha (I was wrong). I like to think I punch far above random on correctness in regards to my strong townreads, that's where I look.

why on 171? i don't think that's a particularly townie post tbh. it's like nai to me.

Reads strongly like a good and genuine application of towny criticism as well as mirrored my thoughts at the time.
"Hot take:" --> the dude is like "hell no, you guys are wrong and I'm really feeling the inclination to tell you why."
(also it's not like the competition for towniness was that strong at that time)

[Errantparabola]

I'm really pumped to start playing this game in earnest, actually. Everyone seems to have a good sense for things here.

Roughly speaking, my reads fall like so:

Town:
Keyser, Bernie, Irre are varying degrees of town.
throw in the worst and Gustavo as hail-mary going out on a limb town.
Shoshin and Nauci are town with specific grains of salt.

The rest:
Dino, Gamma, Notmaf, Mom, skitter.

More reading to come later but bye for now!

[Errantparabola]

From a probabilistic perspective, scum says this more often than town I think, in the weighted sense
1048 is also bad

1. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen scum say that. Town need people to work together scum doesn’t.
2. I don’t understand how that post could be perceived as bad if you understand how wagon analysis works but ok...

Keep in mind I think you're tending towards town due to your predecessor, and rereading I'll take back what I said regarding the post about you not working with scum. I still didn't like the way it felt like you were tooting your own horn about your strong entrance

Errant:

What do your reads look like, and is there anything you think most people missed that is informing them?

Basically most of the points I think are salient are in my posts, as are my reads? What was your intention with that question

[Errantparabola]

I figured since you're the freshest person here I should ask you what you thought might have been missed

I'm always the freshest person here. So no rush.

No longer townreading worst.

[Errantparabola]

EP, why'd you agree with 276?

I don't know about Key specifically but I agree that it's not a thing that town fakes often.
In general I think stuff like Ate and self meta and sentences like that and things that people tend to hold as null or scummy actually come from town more often

And why was Nauci town at that point?

I dont remember, sorry -_-

549 is a pretty bad post from Momrangal.

Why?

It felt like a padded read.
And also a bad read.

[Errantparabola]

It felt like a padded read.
And also a bad read.

What do you mean by "padded"? Why bad?

I got a sense that reasons were maybe produced after the read was made to justify it when keyser asked about it
Given the circumstances I'd say it's a plausible bus but that's crazy speculatory (although you heard it here first if i'm right !!)
It's bad because safe play and associatives arent good reasons to read someone and it's a very generalized read, meaning I tend to look at reads as more fake when they're blanket statements

[Errantparabola]

Im really slammed (yesterday today and tomorrow) with work. The earliest I’ll be here is in about 24 hours but I’ll try to get some thoughts in.

[Errantparabola]

These past few days have been pretty crazy so my brain has sort of done what is essentially a hard flush of this game over the night. I know there were hanging questions about reading skitter and the worst and etc etc so I might reread but I also might ignore those questions, unless it really really really bothers you that I'm doing that.

I remember someone was scumreading me for being too confident or something adjacent to that, and that really annoyed me, so please stop doing that!

[Errantparabola]

my biggest reads are keyser and bernie as town.
scummy off the wagon are skitter and momrangal but I'd have to read on how they interacted with Gamma prior for specific scumminess related to being off the wagon

[Errantparabola]

That's disappointing, because I was pretty confident that if I made mathdino metadive me he'd see i'm obvious town :>
I'll be here soon.

[Errantparabola]

my biggest reads are keyser and bernie as town.
scummy off the wagon are skitter and momrangal but I'd have to read on how they interacted with Gamma prior for specific scumminess related to being off the wagon

That's kind of weird when Skitter (and I, but less so) started the momrangal wagon and is the only reason it continued to be a thing at all.

That's why I said "I'd have to read on how they interacted with Gamma"
The answer dto that question didn't come from some scummy association that i found with gamma but basically some stuff i didn't like from both of them independent of that, but yeah, might as well trash those reads and start from scratch.

- relook at the nature of my Gustavo t/read (strong town connection with stungun0404, but I do not share the same trust factor with Gustavo).

100 percent how i feel about this as well but i think that the former should get inherently more weight than the latter

yes, please do so and elaborate

okay, so basically all of my reasons for not liking you or Mom were detailed in my ISO and I know you asked me about what I meant about dancing around your scumreads but I really dont want to go back and figure out what i was talking about. It was def an error on my part for not being more specific but, uh, let's just say we're cool in that department and call it even. yeah. shrug

but my heart says it's Gustavo, Nauci, and mathdino

this is a hilariously spicy take and it comes from town almost certainly!!!

I’m being left alive for the mislynch in lylo

it feels to me like a lot of Gustavo's posts mirror this sort of attitude and he's approaching the game in a kind of... antagonistic way that feels transparent in ways that are hard to fake

VOTE: the worst
i think this is a fun wagon

my reads are roughly the same, bernie and irrelephant are good, bit less on keyser now but still town

[Errantparabola]

will you townread me if i unvote you

[Errantparabola]

yikes there's prolly 2 scum on my wagon

pushing a cw this hard makes me think Mom is probably the third

Vote was mostly frivolous before this but now it is mostly real

antagonistic way

Say what?

Maybe that wasnt the right word, its like.... eh never mind i can just grab some posts when i’m off my phone

[Errantparabola]

Shoshin what are your thoughts on the worst and the ppl voting him

[Errantparabola]

But you called her “defo town” in an earlier post. I only remember this cause you also called me defo town and that made me feel good about myself

[Errantparabola]

Whats next man? Are you gonna take back your town read on me too?!?! Next thing you know shoshins asking you “why is errant defo town” and youll be all like “haha what I never said that”
I cant play these games with you any more!!!

[Errantparabola]

Alright, fine. Gustavo is town.

VOTE: Skitter

just wanna say that I think that in a vacuum (thats a big qualifier, just in a vacuum) this reaction is traditionally pretty standard scummy
Like it's that very common TvS sequence:
S: I think T is scum
T: No you're wrong, here's me doing some towny things, also S, you're scum
S: Okay never mind T is town

Part of me is like “wow effort! Nauci is probs town” but agreed that not much else makes me townread her, if anything

this seems like an interesting statement... idk if its consistent with how I've seen your thought processes this game, i gotta say

[Errantparabola]

Either i’m very out of touch or youre greatly exaggerating how often that sort of thing happens? If i caught stungun’s interaction i’d have probably called it scummy too

Almost every action in the game has a towny and scummy interpretation it just so happens that the TvS interpretation for that specific one happens to be a very plausible one

[Errantparabola]

@errant How is it inconsistent?

i'm just really surprised that you would write off all of nauci's thought processes with a blanket statement of "nothing town to see here"
you didn't seem like the type of town player to do that
it wasnt really enough for me to rethink my read, but ... eh.

Bernie hammers Gamma. There was a lot of flip-flopping on the Gamma lynch by BS, I honestly don't know what to make of that. Would scum-Bernie not want to make such a dramatic scene at EoD over Gamma to ensure the misslynch? I need help here. Is it alignment indicative for BS?

1) I think your efforts would be better served with us on Day 2 (i mean, this isn't hurting anyone so i guess i'm glad you did it)
2) I would say that on-balance it's probably a little townier but i think that stuff that falls under the category of "suspicious looking hammers" is generally only alignment indicative in certain specific cases.

VOTE: The worst
I think mom-TW then probably N_M, if not then BV/math slot. Mom tw have to die though.
I was going to hard insist mom today actually but 1746 is legitimately scummy from duck here.
FTR vla should only stop a wagon d1 because it's about content/pressure then. I kind of just want flip now.

weirdly, i thought 1746 was the only explicitly towny post that the worst has made today

Ironically I feel like my reads are being brushed off unfairly. If you're town having a hissy fit and saying I'm in your shit list really doesn't help me correct them dude.

I think this is a
towny post,
a little bit

Shoshin, do you think that Gustavo accusing you of misrepping the whole TvS thing is a discussion worth having? i'm guessing by the fact that you're not responding to it means that you think it isn't. but I'd like to know that you at least have a valid response without having to go and fact check myself

(I mean, if you dont, i guess that's fine too honestly, it wasnt a particularly salient point that i had intention of pushing any further. I just threw it out there because i was reading that post and that was my first thought about the post. once again, I skate by with my abject laziness. seems like no one is explicitly mad at me for it. So we're in the clear for now. I will continue to approach maximum energy expenditure efficiency and only feel a little bad about myself for playing in the same game as people like Nauci, who spend hours on this game alone)

[Errantparabola]

anyway this has been errantparabola's take on The News
thanks for stopping by, oh hey, i'm ~still a piece of garbage~

[Errantparabola]

You may deduce from my post that yes, I do, enough that id post about it, but no, i do not enough so that id get worked up over it

[Errantparabola]

a) being waffle-y about the gamma wagon and i still don't know why you think i took that out of context

b) there's a lot of mysterious townreads on you that i can't get anyone to explain satisfactorily

c) you were gamma's counterwagon and i couldn't get the wagon to have more than three votes - it faced an *insane* amount of resistance and nobody could explain why

d) you've done like nothing townie the whole game

Okay, so here's what I'm thinkin about Mom.
a) isn't scummy. b) isn't scummy.
c) is a salient point here, I think? d) i agree with a lot, ESPECIALLY in context with her response to pressure today

But this reaction is kind of evasive and somewhat talking around the point or of making judgment.

Like, mom cited a case that was made, presumably, a long time ago, rather than hashing something out again, like I would expect someone who was really convinced of a scumread that they'd held for a long time. And I agree that it gives me a weird gut feeling but ?? ??

Also WTF everyone left that wagon and it was between stay as a single vote or hop on to duck who I've had the most reason to believe as mom partner so far this game.

based on how the wagons have played out (today specifically), I would be surprised if they were partners. But I think I'd be interested in seeing someone like Nauci analyse it. I guess consider me a willing vote on either for now

This pinged. This is a game of perceptions and to do well as town, you need to read people correctly and be read correctly.
...

I actually don't like anything you've written under the heading of yourself. Why give bullet-points when you don't like self-meta?

this is the most incorrect thing that BlackVoid has said so far I think
Other than that I think his catchup has mildly positively impacted the game but no read yet

Nauci's Irrelephant push in 702 and 704 felt genuine. The more I think about it, I actually don't think that after a great game as scum together, Nauci's strategy in the next game she plays with Irrelephant is to keep pushing for his mislynch on the basis of his good scumplay.....

I agree with this wholeheartedly (assuming that I accept the premise, and theres no reason i wouldnt) i think with the events of this day I'd tend towards putting nauci as more confidently town and irrelephant as less town but still town

Why didn't you react to Nauci this way? Or even Errant? Both of whom make long posts in a similar way to BV?

holy shit guys.
I'm a longposter now. i'm never like this, but this game has just been so nice

It might not matter, but can you respond to my mom points and tell me why you have a TW preference.

I'll put some more weight behind this question and say that I think this matters a lot especially if there is exactly one scum between Mom and the worst, given the timing of irre's vote (it matters a lot less if it's 0 or 2)

there's *quite* a few signs pointing to partners despite this

do me a favor and give me the fast rundown on these?

Bernie, question:
a) are you a public alt? if so, who are you?
b) if not, have we played together? do you have an existing impression of me?

[Errantparabola]

I'd tend towards putting nauci as more confidently town

Nauci Gets Townread By Doing Absolutely Nothing
(This Is A Joke)

[Errantparabola]

Everyone should probably either vote momrangal or at minimum respond to my points on her.

Think it could be Mom, Key, and the worst?

Wait, hold on.
Do you really simulaneously
a) hold this theory as plausible and
b) think that Key is so much scummier than the other two that you consider it a good move to try and start a wagon on him as opposed to joining a wagon

[Errantparabola]

a) it's a plausible theory, but (b) I never said Key was "so much scummier."

Saying that you said that was not my intention. I meant to say that your vote sort of implied to me that that was where your priorities were

Skitter, I'll check that out at some point.

VOTE: Mom

[Errantparabola]

Skitter, I'll check that out at some point.

Checked it out.
conclusion: plausible-ish

i'm checking mafia during lecture. am I the new nauci?

[Errantparabola]

On my phone cause campus internet’s down. I will respond to things later
Here is a very rough, but well ordered set, of my reads


Bernie
Nauci
Irre
Keyser
Shoshin
Gustavo
BlackVoid
Skitter
NotMafia
Worst
Mom

[Errantparabola]

Errant, why is Key town?

Some observations I made during my catchup made me feel like he was.
I also think that he's playing very intentionally with his scumhunting. It's very goal-oriented and that makes me think he's not playing with an agenda

I found it amusing you preferring my lynch over Mom’s.

I don't know if amusing is the right word.

Let it slide for now I guess.

This is a town post
A big town post
I guess he doesn't want to reveal his main which is... fine

i'm more interested in why two people with mysterious townreads on mom yesterday (tw and irrelephant) are now voting her

I think in the event that mom flips scum and TW is town, that irre deserves scrutiny

Keyser has voted for Skitter30 and Bernie Sanders D1, and so far those are ALL of his votes???

I don't see what this has to do with much of anything

It reminds me of how I sometimes play scum IRL - "yeah, I'm scum lol ", and moving on to other topics.

I think this is an interesting point and I dont disagree here in the.... general sense that keyser is potentially trying to play without a sense of survivalism

But i think it deserves more nuance
Like I think there are more factors that come into play when analyzing how someone responds to pressure

[Errantparabola]

i cant wait for mom and the worst to both inexplicably flip town and for us to lose the game

[Errantparabola]

he's rask; he outed it after i guessed it somewhere in the 400's i think

ohhhhh
well that's uh
nice, I guess
IDK if i've played with him before ;;;

[Errantparabola]

probably not partner-indicative; it's a very odd trajectory for a partner to take on scum!mom given the gamestate

i agree with this btw
I'd guess at potential partners for scum mom to be people who went from townreading to scumreading at about Wagon Size 4

[Errantparabola]

Of course that's all circumstantial and the person I'm specifically talking about is Irrelephant who I still think is.... town asdf

[Errantparabola]

I tried to make an updated version of my reads list and ended up being dissatisfied with both the new one and thinking about it, the old one. So here is this abomination... it looked better in my head



also skitter should be higher it's just crowded there

[Errantparabola]

Okay I opted out of group work so I can slack off and read today and then code until 5 AM too make up for my hubris

what's your major btw?

EP ily

<3 <3 <3

Can you talk about why because I had pretty much the exact opposite thought. I think the direction of her reads lines up decently enough with mine that it pushed her over to a townlean for me. But I hated the self-meta section. A lot of it felt fake although I'm more inclined to attribute it to playstyle at this point.

Spoiler: spoilered because i wanted to respond, but i dont thnk that any of these points are important anymore

Yeah, I mentioned that I disagreed when you made that post. I dont think there's scum motivation to present self-meta unprompted. I don't think scum thinks to do that especially when it's sort of a risky way to approach things.

In regards to my worst and Skitter points, I can't really give you a super satisfactory answer there. The most I can say is that I thought worst's replace-in was towny and the there was some way that skitter was going about things that I thought was scummy, I've since flushed both reads so I dont really know. I was disengaged from the game due to real life issues

And for the record, I don't think I ever said that I thought Skitter had a similar playstyle, but I do remember mentioning being pleased that she formatted posts how I used to format them (namely, with the -- between points)

In regards to my Gustavo point: when I say "probabilistically" i don't mean "in the history of the site scum has uttered this phrase more than town" i mean "i can see this statement coming from scum more plausibly than most other statements"
And the reason for that is because I thought that town doesnt pat themselves on the back for ruffling feathers, town just does it
I dont consider either of those points (or actually any of these points) important to my thought process though

I wish Errantparabola was made to take a stance and put a vote down.

you and everyone else on the site

-Are we all collectively silently deciding to mostly not discuss the lack of night kill because it could be any one of like a dozen reasons? I've never seen a game with this little setup spec.

I mean.... do you have any theories? Like, there's no information to go off on. I guess it's something to keep in mind but I dont see any value in talking about it now

Skitter, Irrelephant, Errant, BS: Did you move because your <current vote target> is scummier than tw to you, or because you town read something(s) tw post?

happy with either mom or worst but i would be significantly happier with mom, consider me to echo BS's response

I'm really happy for you that you have a hobby you're so passionate about that you're driven to stay up until 3am posting about it but what. I'm meant to give you a free townread over it? you don't like my stance because I'm not going "OH EFFORT NAUCI YAY TOWN"?

do you think thats the reason why other ppl townread nauci?
and could you go into your read on mom? or point me to where you mention it?

Are there people that have juicy meta information on irrelephant and that's the reason he's town? If so could someone point me to it?

[Errantparabola]

Ugh, been in a depression rutt sorry about that

please take care of yourself first and foremost.
If you do have the time to respond to things, I think that the most important things to look at are BS's ISO and the worst's ISO -- i would be most interested to know where you stand on those two.

I'm no longer townreadnig him because his catch up is taking way longer than it should.

wasn't the original reason you townread him due to some really apparent meta read? Is the length of time that he's taking enough to invalidate that?

[Errantparabola]

work is actively killing me right now. I'd love to be around but can't.

[Errantparabola]

I’m done with work but I’m mentally drained so I’m lowkey hoping we can just get this lynch through. If not, see you tonorrow.

[Errantparabola]

Worst, claim your result.

[Errantparabola]

I read up on the rest of day 2. Will type up responses to some stuff when i have time

[Errantparabola]

VOTE: the worst
claim your result please

[Errantparabola]

also it was quite possibly the polar opposite of discreet

[Errantparabola]

it was basically the elephant in the room during d2
And if worst is scum, it will be the irrelevphant in the room

[Errantparabola]

Haha not sure if you’re implying my alignment is somehow related to tw’s(???), but i like the pun

Pedit: Keyser you’re kidding right

ahaha, just a pun.

the fuck @ ep in particular

I made my suspicion of your claim pretty clear but
UNVOTE:
there's no point in getting worked up about it if you're going to start talking soon anyway

I was gonna make it my new avatar

lmao. If I may recommend an idea I think the most avatar-able part of it is "This sucks"

[Errantparabola]

Not majoring in anything (dropped out of Carnegie Mellon Computer Science ages ago).

I apologize for the incorrect assumption!

I think in a vacuum, stuff like this is more likely to come from town. But I'm not sure this is justified considering you haven't posted much content at all. Can you explain what specifically you did here that's outside your scumrange? Have you played with MathDino? Making him meta-dive you implies that you haven't. That means it's applicable to any other player, not just Mathdino.

it was primarily facetious due to mathdino being a particularly observant meta reader.
But I

personally

think I'm playing really towny just in... like the introspective sense and it's genuinely a little frustrating that some ppl i really want to connect with (including you, especially since i think we actually share most reads) dont seem to agree

Esepcially since this happens every single game I try to join where life inevitably gets busy and i start posting less (Which I blame myself for, and you should also blame me for, but I'm still frustrated at it and at myself), like you can reference literally any game I've played in the past... year at least. I get yelled at multiple times a game to take more hard stances, or to post more, etc. etc. I acknowledge that I can be a bit of a frustrating person to play with because of this. And I think I've been doing that a

lot

more than in every other game and feeling really good about it but it still wasn't enough. And also considering that I replaced in this game as a cross-replace deal and almost certainly wouldn't have been anywhere near this active if i hadn't ended up liking this playerlist as much as I do.

I guess have significantly lower expectations for myself than other people do, apparently :,>

Worst is leaving much to be desired but the way he's playing around with certain softs still has me wary about going there.

cough cough

cough cough WHEEZE

Irrelephant I wish you would stop saying you're voting mom because Bernie told you to.

Skirting responsibility like that is gross and also when did you turn into a Bernie Bro anyway

ahahaha
anyway, this observation makes me want to maaaybe solidify irrelephant as town (I was leaning more and more towards considering that he was scum) because it just doesn't make sense as a bus here
Think people who scumread irrelephant should take this into account when evaluating their read

In the meantime, I want TheWorst's full claim and complete night action list to check against any crumbs he made. I think any potential benefits of hiding it from scum is outweighed by having more information to read him by. I also want to see ErrantP do a full/catchup analysis of where his reads are at (preferably before I do mine so I can read into it).

okay, so

Gustavo -> It feels simply impractical to suspect Gustavo based on some no night kill shenanigans and everyhting points to town here
skitter30 -> Graduated to Bernie-tier town over Day 2, maybe even higher as I begin to consider that Bernie may not necessarily be as town as I thought
Bernie Sanders -> Bernie is just analytically town, everything points to town, but I just want to reserve the right to not be embarrassed if he ends up being scum because I included this caveat in my read :}

Nauci -> Scum Nauci seems pretty implausible just based on my intuition, Nauci hasn't really given me much to read either way in D2 so aside from that it's all early game stuff
Irrelephant11 -> Irrelephant town is simply the most reasonable explanation analytics wise and I think that the Mom thing I mentioned (I haven't fact checked it but I'm trusting nauci to make correct observations here) is an important thing to keep in mind when reading Irrelephant's otherwise pretty bad associations
Keyser Soze -> Less sure about him being town but it's mainly just me holding on to an early-game town read here

BlackVoid -> No particularly strong feelings in either direction but I generally agree with both your town and scumreads
Not_Mafia -> Whatever
the worst -> super plausible partner, claim was the one thing keeping me from full scumreading him yesterday, generally scummy D2 behavior

[Errantparabola]

I get yelled at multiple times a game to take more hard stances, or to post more, etc. etc.

Errant needs to post a lot more. I haven't seen much of anything AI.

funny I didn't even see this, by the way.
ugh, just ignore everything i said in regards to that. i take responsibility for my own shit play

[Errantparabola]

If TW is scum this is actually some impressive anti-distancing from Momrangel here.

I dont actually think this is... as far out of normal scumplay as you think it is?

i also don't understand why you semi-claimed a result on ep today either; it feels more like you're announcing 'i did something claimable' than an actual result that you're sharing to clarify the gamestate

That's not what it is, and if worst is fakeclaiming a guilty on me then you can lynch me and then immediately lynch worst tomorrow (or, preferably, just lynch worst)

Okay my meta dive assessment of TW is that lots of fluffposting is NAI. Post count is NAI (he's racked up >300 as both alignments). Tends to be a bit more defensive/short tempered as scum, and contribute more sharp questions/observations as town (on top of fluff posts). I apologize for being unnecessarily rude to the duckling but I do not rescind my scumread (almost all non-scum-reads on TW are as a result of the claiming that he has clearly done as scum).

this all seems really really consistent with worst scum here

@ErrantP, okay let's "connect." I agree that skitter30, Bernie, Gustavo are town although Gustavo for different reasons than you so we're actually on the same page here. But let's talk about your second tier townreads. All of the reasons you posted for them are pretty vague and stuff that could easily come from either alignment that you just seem to be choosing to interpret as town.

I really really chafe at your wording here. It seems like you're talking to me as a concession. If you're not actually that interested in what I have to say (and that's what it seems by how you start here, but you said that you did actually want to read what I said earlier), then just say that.

In any case, my "second tier townreads" are me choosing to interpret things that could come from either alignment as town, yes. You're exactly right. But I think those things are more plausibly town, or have the most cogent explanation as town, so that's why I'm saying they're town. The fact that they're second-tier townreads mean I'm evaluating and reevaluating from both sides and if you think I'm being disingenuous with those reads might mean that you think that I put more strength into those reads than I do.

Nauci is town for early game reasons and your intuition. Can you explain that some more?

I think that there has consistently been nuance in Nauci's posting and she tends to focus on the most salient parts of the game and points out the things that I also think are important/alignment indicative and I think scum tends to be less focused/more reactive to the general posts at large because they're not singularly focused on formulating reads like Nauci is here

But I do understand that Nauci being slightly less engaged decreases that sample size which is why I'm saying I don't put the most stock in that read

Irrelephant is town to you because he said he was sheeping Bernie on Momrangal. I can understand the argument of "why would scum say they are sheeping when they would want cred for a bus?" But it's not really a strong enough argument to outweigh an existing scumread. I could see scum using that as a reason to hop off because it's a weak reason to begin with. But I'll think this through more when I analyze him in depth.

When you mention that I do think that you're right, but I still don't really think that irrelephant is the likeliest scum in this situation, and i'll await your analysis

Keyser-Soze - holding onto an early game townread. A lot has happened since early game though. I'd like to see you comment on what you think of his recent posts. Have they made you doubt that townread or mostly re-inforced them?

I think that people scumreading keyser dont have strong reasons behind those things
I think that he has made a lot less readable stances/actions in D2 because I think that a lot of his analysis has been fake-able and the reason that I haven't made a lot of specific responses to Keyser's posts is because I dont have anything to say about how they affected my read (if they did I would have already brought it up.)

I think that the most important part to reading keyser right NOW is the fact that he thinks worst is plausibly a genuine PR and I will wait to see worst claim his result and keyser act on it before I make a judgment in that part.

I feel like you and Nauci are looking for a reason to townread Irrelephant rather than analyze his posts and objectively reach a conclusion.

I think this is an unreasonable expectation.

you trying to throw shade on that is just really really bad in my opinion. All the data that I took from irrelephant's posts I've already mentioned. I used it to make a read. That read is bound to change. I'm not going to take a hard stance because that's not how sorting people works most of the time. I've come out and said I'm conflicted on irrelephant. I've had irrelephant as strong town before, and if I had some ulterior motive to townread irrelephant i would have just maintained that.

I don't look at his posts and analyze every post (and by the way I dont even think there's that much analyzable data in every post anyway) and then say "okay, this is my strong, hard read." i'm going to keep evaluating using the things that I think are the most important.

[Errantparabola]

I'm "less engaged"?

perhaps a mistake on my part, maybe i got that impression because i was less engaged myself

@errantp, I'm pretty sure you're misunderstanding my tone. I wasn't talking to you as a concession. I was glad that you said you wanted to "connect" because I saw it as an opportunity to have an insightful discussion. I put it in quotes because it was your word and not one I've seen used before, not because I thought it was dubious or that I was doing it reluctantly.

I apologize. I read it wrong and I'm sorry i got upset.

oh i was getting the vibe that he was fake-claiming an inno on you, not a guilty, for just that reason tbh

his intention is definitely to suggest he has a guilty with his opening post. whether he actually does have a guilty, or intends to fakeclaim a guilty, or is just reaction testing with an inno, or a fakeclaimed inno, so on and so forth, will have to wait until he actually says his damn result

[Errantparabola]

@EP - why do you think TW chose you? (It’d been easier to stir up a wagon/fake a guilty on me or Not Nafia).

He almost certainly didnt. I thought about it and i want to claim now because i'm basically a VT at this point. I neighborized worst.
I told him that he was obviously softing PR. I asked where his reads were and said that he was pushing nauci and skitter hard yesterday and setting them up as partners with mom while trying to push mom and that was suspicious to me

He implied heavily that he was an investigative and said he would be "looking" at BV. thinking about it now i dont think worst ever hard townread me so idk why he claimed, but it seemed like worst was pretty much gearing up to claim eventually with how hard he was hinting at it in thread

i asked him why he didn't investigate one of his scumreads.

He said its better to focus on the top of the lynchpool and justified that bv was a nullread who wasnt going to be nk'd.

i asked if he had a N1 result and he said that maybe i'd find out eventually.

I asked him, only semi-jokingly, to investigate me, and he refused.

[Errantparabola]

cause i thought he was town d1 and we're friends and i like him

[Errantparabola]

I dont actually know if he's going to claim a result on BV
that's what he said last night

[Errantparabola]

Why is me being town so confusing to you?!?!?!?!?!?

[Errantparabola]

cause i thought he was town d1 and we're friends and i like him

What was the stupid reason you had for the town read? Did you ever explain it?

I dont even remember but it was something to do with the replace in i think, I wasnt taking the game nearly as seriously as i did on D2 and D3 and thought it didnt really matter who i targeted

Okay:

N1: I neighborized worst
D2: The thread was made.
N2: The thread was unlocked.

Post order (we joked around a lot, those things are omitted. and posts are heavily paraphrased for obv reasons)

EP: I know youre a PR
EP: What are your reads, do you still scumread Nauci & Skitter
TW: Nauci & Skitter are probably partners with mom, i'm not surprised at the flip
TW: I'm probably going to be looking at BV tonight
EP: So you're a cop? why don't you investigate one of your scumreads
TW: It makes more sense to investigate at the top of the lynchpool <-- (basically claiming cop or something simiilar??)
TW: BV is a nullread and most likely wont be night killed
EP: I still dont think it makes sense not to investigate a scumread
TW: I'd always choose someone like this regardless of who i scumread
EP: did you have a result on N1
TW: maybe you'll find out eventually
EP: Why not investigate me instead of BV
TW: no thanks

[Errantparabola]

he was very coy

[Errantparabola]

worst, were you afraid of being NK'd on N2?

[Errantparabola]

worst is active on site.

[Errantparabola]

lmao, legendary

[Errantparabola]

If BV is scum and EP is scum... why didn’t EP NK TW? Thus, if BV is scum, EP is likely town.

I just think IN GENERAL it doesnt make sense that the worst claims to me at all unless he's hard townreading me. If that's the case, that's the first i've ever heard of it.

[Errantparabola]

Just randomly omit 25% of the words that i say in my posts and believe the rest

[Errantparabola]

STOP WORKING WORST
MAFIA IS YOUR JOB NOW

[Errantparabola]

Srry short responses bc i have very little time and i'm not at home rn

maybe EP and TW just claimed their scum pt as a neighbourhood in the ultimate gambit strat

Ahaha
"What's the title of the neighborhood?"
"Uh..... not american presidents mafia scumtopic"

neighbouriser is almost negligible in any power sense if town and one that gives neighbourhoods that delayed and nightonly feels like it sucks even compared to neighbourisers im used to

Consider also that it's a one-shot role
The small amount of use that it generated in this game is still more than i'd expect it to generate on average, lol

btw I remembered from one of the times reading mom iso but
mom-invisibility thing on the surface might seem anti-tell on most surface level but is pretty common to how noobscum and sometimes badscum distance
rvs partnervote is almost infamous as is votepark on partner but dont really push him and sleep off most of other game happenings

What's your keyser read today

EP who do you think is scum?

This is only working with the potential its betwewn worst and bv today: it would much rather lynch worst than bv working on reads alone but i acknowledge giving a potential town worst an extra day has big merit

Im almost motivated to look into not mafia's scum meta (anyone w more experience in that regard weigh in?)
But i think not taking that into account i think there is a moderate chance he flips town and i'm wrong about a townread

As for the rest skitter and gustavo are my top townreads
Then you
Then nauci
Then keyser and irre
Then bv, independent of all the worst stuff

So my intention is to find a flip between worst and his guilty, then work as best i can with associations and maybe even pr results which would be just dandy
And i get that i've been mostly been treading water today and saying that worst needs to claim his result but its just annoying that what could potentially be the most important piece of info in the game right now is bein withheld from us

I spent a lot of time (over twenty hours) on it which is something I'd never do as scum

Ey man, regardless of anything game-related, i appreciate that you took the time to do a thorough catchup, thats above and beyond what most replacements do and once again im sorry for interpreting you as being hostile

[Errantparabola]

Someone who has more experience with the worst, would it be plausible for him to basically claim at the start of today if he had an inno result?

[Errantparabola]

@errantp, since you're here, a quick question: if you're town with a neighborizer role, don't you think it would be helpful to neighborize your strongest townreads to discuss reads with them privately? What were you hoping to get from neighborizing TheWorst outside of learning his role and why did you want his role anyways?

Check my iso i neighborised him n1

[Errantparabola]

The worst sorry if im coming across as harsh and i dont want you to be angry or upset w me or the game
But please understand that where im coming from and how im seeing things it just doesnt make sense why you need to catch up to claim a result

[Errantparabola]

On TheWorst, I actually think there are some things that point away from him being scum. Like the last sentence of 1297. It seems like Momra caught a crumb from TheWorst and used that as a reason to divert away from him knowing he has a claim up his sleeve to prevent his mislynch. 794 on Bernie - feels like she's trying to set up Bernie for a TheWorst townflip. 2261 is another post where Momra picks up on TheWorst's soft claim and it feels genuine enough as not a scum-scum interaction.

I do agree that it seems that Mom genuinely thinks that worst is a PR. But keep in mind that they have daytalk at this point.

Errant, do you read TW as town for anything other than the breadloafing?

Is breadloafing a fun way to say "breadcrumbing, but stronger" because if so, I love it.
But I don't even townread him for that.
The full gist of my read on worst is probably roughly like:

Scummy stuff (all of which I've brought up before):
I don't think he's being genuine with his reads
In general I don't think that how strong his reads claim to be is cohesive with how hard he actually pushes them
I don't think he's being genuine with his claim, which is the big thing today
The way he approaches the Mom wagon D2 (like he joined it but never pushed it hard, and it seemed like he expected Mom to flip scum so he focused his effort onto setting up a next step lynch on either Nauci or Skitter by pushing pre-flip associations)

Conflict stuff (some of which I might have brought up before):
I know this argument chafes with a lot of people but I think that "too scummy to be scum" did make me doubt a little bit, like if scum is simply this laser-focused with their reads and parts of the game that they interact with (I would at least expect scum to make an attempt to branch out)
Acknowledge that Mom generally saying stuff like "I have a secret reason to townread worst" seems town on its face but see my point about scum having daytalk

I think you should present your reads using that graph Errant designed

If you're gonna make other people do this then I want to patent it and name it after me. Let's call it the Parabolaxis.

[Errantparabola]

@brassherald: I'm v/la through Monday because my thermometer says 103.2

please get better soon!

What I don't like about his posting are the mysterious townreads on Nauci (claiming that Nauci is making good points and focused on getting reads is flat-out wrong. The townread on Irrelephant is also not understandable). Mysteriously having me at the bottom of his readslist is weird too.

His progression on Momrangal is a bit too one-dimensional. He consistently suspects Momrangal for reasons that aren't very strong, hops on mid-wagon and stays there, pointing out pre-flip associatives. I couldn't help thinking that if I were scum, this is how I would bus.

In regards to Nauci and Irre, neither of them are really strong townreads, I dont think that they're mysterious reads if you read things I've said about them in the past and I've been evaluating them less actively because neither of them are priority sort right now to me
You raise mostly valid points, i'd like to point out that you're not at the bottom of my readslist, you're simply my weakest townread, and that's independent of the 1v1 between you and worst which i definitely think you're town in

I genuinely dont remember what I thought about Mom except for thinking some things were decently scummy D1 and then her being straight up inactive D2. IDK what pre-flip associatives I pointed out, but I dont think this is a big arguing point anyway. So... shrug. I think it's kind of interesting though that all of the things that you said about me re: Mom are all things that I'd say about worst. take that how you will

the only thing my pred did was rap and I thought that was a pretty bad way to play 1-shot BP

rapping is the best way to play any role.

scum fakeclaiming?

no way that doesn't happen

ironic

Lol.

TW-BV?

I tracked duck last night and he didn't go anywhere

But guiltying a town would be suicidial. I guess bussing

there was absolutely no fuckin way you should have claimed this
VOTE: the worst

[Errantparabola]

basically the worst is confirmed scum here, right?
UNVOTE:
what???? ??

[Errantparabola]

VOTE: the worst
you had me panicked for nothing dude

[Errantparabola]

VOTE: BV

this guy is playing mafia in 2028

[Errantparabola]

BV, do you get informed if you lose your BP?

[Errantparabola]

this has hit the stage where BSizzle is too adorable to be scum

so from your perspective there are just two investigatives in this game?

[Errantparabola]

skitter is pretty close to entirely incompatible with worst+mom imo

[Errantparabola]

Like I might go back and reevaluate that just to confirm that thought but skitter is solidly town

[Errantparabola]

I think bv > tw lynch order is game theory better at the moment? Because tw flip doesn't clear bv but I think bv flip might clear to and both informative on BS

this is ridiculous game theory even if BV flip is 5 times more valuable because tw is SIGNIFICANTLY more likely to be scum given even just the setup knowledge that we have, let alone reads based on dayplay

[Errantparabola]

maybe you rolled scum but a scum townerizer targeted you today

[Errantparabola]

Nauci what's your justification for BS/TW being possible

[Errantparabola]

NM is strongly preferable to BV as a lynch. I likely cant be 100% present until Monday. I think BV is town. This game is pretty much on lock assuming Nauci clears herself by dying

[Errantparabola]

VOTE: not mafia
As much as I want to suspect that scum is in someone we’re all townreading, I just don’t see it being other than not mafia with Nauci’s clears

[Errantparabola]

Normally I’d be pretty pissed that somehow Nauci still finds a reason to inexplicably throw shade on me but with this many clears I’m fine with eating a lynch

[Errantparabola]

UNVOTE:

almost impossible that Nauci is not legit, any town result that scumNauci fakes is in essence a town clear, so functionally scumNauci is mechanical suicide assuming that we force her to verify all the VT claims

have this horrible nagging feeling that if gustavo is scum we've already lost this game.

Him simultaneously saying "it's one of BV and NM" while consistently applying pressure on me honestly makes me think that both of them are town and gustavo is prepping for LYLO with me and him but it just feels soooooooooooo far off from stungun and gustavo consistently being towny this game that I really dont know if gustavo scum makes sense ever

I have no major issues of concern with those 8 posts either.

Yeah it's townposting

Town

Odd Night Doctor
Tracker
Neopolitan
Neighborizer
1 shot BP

Scum

Encryptor
Goon
Ninja or Blocker?

Who thinks this looks balanced?

with a blocker this doesn't look too far off of balance? 10/3 is CRAZY skewed towards scum

the one thing that's holding me back here is that nm is super disengaged from the game and idk if tw banks the game on nm given how out of it he is

Okay, yeah that's another thing
Why does TW suicide to push NM forward? This D2 fake guilty strategy makes me think that they've got someone who they feel like can go long (or at least, longer than worst which was admittedly not a super high bar this game) which sort of exists directly in conflict with the people i'm townreading

nm is literally throwing out random names, which looks kinda survivalistic to me, to see if anything sticks

Wouldn't interpret this as survivalistic personally. I feel like I can't read any of NM's posting anymore because it makes equally as much sense for him as town to give up as for him as scum to give up

[Errantparabola]

VOTE: NotMafia

[Errantparabola]

i unvoted then voted again so it's the same as whatever it was before

[Errantparabola]

rip okay irre was probably fishing for a scumclaim sorry

[Errantparabola]

UNVOTE:

[Errantparabola]

Isn’t he Lynched?

Anyways I just read some ISO’s. I feel good with nm being the last scum.

I’m not

if i'm not is in reference to nm not being lynched i think i'd rather BV than NM today if that's the choice
dont think that nm's play is consistent with "scum giving up" regardless of how obtusely his reads are presented

[Errantparabola]

k thats fine

[Errantparabola]

sorry bv and i've felt really similarly this game
like on balance you're really towny and I think worst really doesnt plausibly fake guilty a partner (...on day 2...) and i hope that NM flips scum here but i just feel like he wont

[Errantparabola]

Can’t post until tomorrow/friday maybe, skimming until then
Or you can just lynch me before then and save me the work because I have no effin idea who it is, just can’t help but feel like somehow we’re inevitably going to choke and lose this game

[Errantparabola]

Okay, so I have some time.
Also, @skitter, I feel-- this week has been a sudden unprovoked depressive cycle for me and class just got so hectic, so I've just been so demotivated for something like mafia.

I didn’t think I was the NK target. I thought shos was stupid to save me. I honestly felt I’m being saved for lylo. My gut says one of the claims is fake. I’ve searched the archived games and when scum has an encryptor, scum never have a neighborizer. I found one game where scum had a BP RBer and an encryptor and town had a neighborizer but I actually can see errant being scum here. He had a vote on tw and he was late and no reason. He had a vote on mom that’s again was late and no reason.

First things first I want us to sort each other earnestly and transparently here. I'm worried that you're trying to preemptively throw some shade on me here but the fact that you mentioned that you should have waited for me to post makes me feel like you earnestly care about my alignment (but then again, BV said the same thing yesterday so ahhhhh). But basically the gist is I dont want to give off the impression that I'm trying to shade you preemptively either and I still have a reeaaaalllyy hard time seeing you as scum. But the issue is I have that for all the other slots in the game too. Think i need to just reevaluate how I'm townclearing people because literally all three other people have a very convincing reason for me to think they're town so

1) What do you mean you're being saved for lylo? Why would it be more rational for you to be killed over Bernie (claimed investigative) or Nauci (claimed investigative)? What's your justification on this point?
2) When was it that my vote on TW was late? I already mentioned that yeah, my mom vote was just throwing out a whatever, just join a wagon vote. But I want to know how you interpreted my interactions with worst to be.

i think ep is a lot better at the balancing stuff than me but there's a possiblity that he's scum and then he'll just answer the question however it benefits him to do so so his opinio isn't super helpful to me rn

Trust me, my modding experience does not help me with balance at ALL. I have no idea how balance works above the most basic statements like "town needs a lot of PR help to balance out the naturally very scumsided team numbers in MS games"

i kinda think we ought to not rush today so all of us can try to work this out

Did you think that we were in danger of rushing?

I'll just wait for irre and keyser to post owo

[Errantparabola]

John Quincy Adams, and my flavor is about being eloquent, and my quote is about inspiring others

[Errantparabola]

Still stuck to my phone but to be 100% w yall right now— i really have a hard time understanding how any of these three remaining people could be scum, like, I feel like I’m the objectively scummiest here. And personally I feel like its really frickin skeevy that Gustavo says “we should lynch between me and BV today” while simultaneously continuing to talk about how he actually thinks last scum is me, so id like you to go into that gustavo.

So if anyone wants to lynch me today and (maybe, probably) Gustavo tomorrow, I’d sign that bill if you catch my drift. And i get that BV thinks that “REAL town should NEVER accept that they get lynched in this situation” but i genuinely have no idea who the hell it could be, and I have a godawful track record endgame, and as town in general

so i am not about to tryhard just to fight a losing battle with whoever ends up in lylo and lose this game.

[Errantparabola]

And for the record, i really dont want to go and figure out what i said or did or thought early game. It is what it is, take it as you will, etc but like i said i was basically talking out of my ass for a lot of it. Like i said, i’m originally in this game hecause i’d promised the mod i’d help out with replacements.

[Errantparabola]

Tryhard post tonight

[Errantparabola]

If I have to go into that good night today, I want to leave my legacy for tomorrow's lylo to take into consideration. So have my high quantity, low quality, rapid (not so rapid actually, I've worked on this post all day on and off) thoughts-dump and Keyser, Irre, I'd like it if you take a peek when you have time/when you think it's relevant. Relephant. I made that joke before, sorry.

And just to make sure that we're not missing anything:

@Mod, I understand if you won't comment on any hypothetical scenarios on hypothetical roles, but if a BP was shot, would you inform them that they were shot and lost their BP?

I believe in the collective strength of Keyser and Irrelephant to have this game in the bag. Other than this post I probably won't be doing any retrospective readings, but I'll still be as active as I can.

I think that we generally need to operate under a different scumhunting framework, because I really think that all the potential last scum candidates have some really strong townpoints in favor of each of them. So I feel like I need to be shifting from "what is the TOWNIEST thing" and giving that the most weight to "what is the LEAST FAKE-ABLY TOWN THING" and giving that the most weight instead.

Table of Contents:

(clicking on a subcategory will take you there in the post, IDK if it works on phones)

i. BV/Mathdino

- Early game + Guilty claim
- Post-guilty
- Conclusion

ii. Gustavo/stungun

- Stungun
- D2 and D3
- Lategame and responses to your question, @Gustavo
- Conclusion

iii. Skitter

- D1 and D2 (I read it and she's just town. She can't not be town. Conclusion: Town.)

iv. the worst and Mom

- Mom's ISO
- the worst's ISO
- The FAKE GUILTY
- Conclusion

BlackVoid:

1. Before and during the guilty claim

the worst
Errantparabola
Irrelephant11
Momrangal

BV opens with a trajectory against both of the flipped scum. Something to take into account.
Personally, it felt like BV's reads solidified pretty fast, and pretty strongly (saying things like "I don't think that so-and-so is ever going to flip scum here"). The whole "giving off the impression that they know X is going to flip town/scum" is a read I don't consider reliable. However I'll look for potential plausible bussing based on this foundation.

I'm no longer considering them to be partners. One could be scum but not both.

This was said about the Mom/worst pair wagons. Maybe it's plausibly scum, but I remember thinking the exact same thing. I'll keep this in mind.

You, TheWorst, and ErrantP are the ones I find scummiest. I wanted to cross-check interactions with Momrangal based on flip but I was sick during the night phase so that didn't pan out so I'm going to get to it tonight and tomorrow.

Over the course of the lynch and the Night Phase, BV went from confidently calling Mom/worst impossible to scumreading worst after a Mom flip. So under normal circumstances, I would consider scum to capitalize on that anti-association between Mom and worst that BV established and try to push it.

However, I do think that this is actually surprisingly plausible scum behavior in this case, because we know that at some point, worst and his scum partner came up with this fake-guilty plan. So hypothetically, if BV is scum with worst, he went in knowing that worst and himself were going to be in a 1v1. So it makes a whole lot of sense that he would go from "Mom/worst isn't a thing" to "worst is my scumread still."

However (again), we know that it's mod-confirmed that scum doesn't have fakeclaims (I think I read that). That means that BV had to say, "okay, so worst will fake a guilty on me, basically relying on that and a mediocre BP fakeclaim that I INTENTIONALLY made to give me the firepower to survive the rest of the game." It's a crazy plan which still doesn't seem plausible to me, because it banks on worst getting lynched immediately. Because say we lynched BV, flips scum, then worst just doesn't die for the rest of the game, then scum just lost. I don't see a rational scumteam banking on this crazy plan given that BV was honestly in a fine position if memory serves me correctly.

If anyone disagrees, please point me to the strongest argument that gives credence to the BV/worst theory.

What made me think TheWorst was scummier towards the end was his reaction to me saying he should claim. I proposed a way for us to use the last few days of D2 analyzing claims so we aren't scrambling at the last minute. His response of "you wish scumboy" really convinced me that he wasn't interested in being helpful. I was also at that point trying to figure out which of Momra/TheWorst were scum if only one of them were scum.

So BV alludes to his previous "it's only one of Mom/worst" theory but sort of diluting the strength of what he previously said. I think that's fine, but I don't know why worst get scummier by being unhelpful. I doubt the sincerity of this read a little bit.

3. Can you quote where exactly either Errant or TheWorst said that TheWorst had a result on me?

I'm quite conflicted on whether or not this is fake (which makes sense, because if it is, then he's scum, and if it isn't, then he's town). I want to lean towards that it isn't just because it feels like a really unnecessary and extraneous thing to fake if this is their plan. However, I will acknowledge that it seems a little glaring considering his own expectations for how closely people should be engaged with the thread (see, ironically: "You really should read the thread more closely" about three posts before that one)

I think that I outed the neighborhood a little confusingly and it's plausible that he genuinely misread it.

2. Post-guilty

Scum are between {Nauci, Gustavo, Not_Mafia, errantparabola}. I kind of like this new development because I'm townreading errant and Gustavo. So, this pretty much leaves Nauci and Not_Mafia as the only potentially likely scum.

Initial instinct is that Nauci probably wouldn't fake-claim Neapolitan at this point. I'm not sure how much to believe this so I'll look through her posts again. But I feel pretty sure Not_Mafia has to be the final scum.

FOR the record, I think that this is a pretty scummy way to react to the Nauci claim. I think it's a little over-suspicious of what almost mechanically HAS to be a true claim and I don't know if "I kind of like this new development" is that sincere.

If errant/gustavo are scum, the only way town will win is if I can hold down my slot and prevent it from getting lynched. I won at least two towngames because I tried so, so hard to not get lynched and in of those game, ultimately the person deciding the game felt if I were scum putting in that much effort, I honestly deserved an award and voted the actual scum. That was in 3-way lylo.

Towny. This is getting into some pretty WIFOM territory but I think that last scum would shy away from acting so blatantly survivalistic because that's exactly what people would surface-level expect that last scum to want to be. And it's pretty consistent with his attitude throughout the game (see: BV getting accused of blocking himself with town on D...3?) and I think that overarching attitudes and playstyles are pretty hard to fake.

Two points. First off... [snip]

Secondly... [snip]

I think I might have subconsciously mentally absorbed Keyser's post because both points he brought up are things I also mentioned (although I didn't find either of them particularly scummy?). Other than that, the response that BV made doesn't actually make me feel anything either way.

3. Conclusions

I think that the major thing that makes me think that BV is town here, despite a lot of things making me think that he can be very plausibly scum, is that the plan that he and worst would have had to have come up with just doesn't make SENSE. BV comes across as a cautious, meticulous type. His play isn't particularly showy, and he's not pulling any unconventional or particularly risky things if he is scum here. He's just making his posts, talking about as many points as he can, and being proactive in the discussion. Just from this half-baked personality analysis ALONE, I really don't see him agreeing to a plan that has at least a 30% chance of instantly losing him the game. And I think even if BV was more risk-prone it just doesn't really convince me that this is a scum move between BV and worst. Again, if anyone disagrees I'd like to see the justification.

And one last thing, I went and reread the neighborhood. I did find it odd that worst felt set on investigating BV in particular. It felt like "well I planned out and softed that BV was going to be the target so that's what the plan has to be." I do think that this is a point of suspicion in regards to BV. Like, why particularly did it have to be BV that was the guilty target if BV was just another lynchable town in the pretty decently sized pool of random lynchable towns?

--------

Gustavo:

1. Stungun's ISO

so yes, i feel comfortable stating this townbloc. my townreads are much more accurate than my scum reads on d1, and can be trusted (over 95% success rate).

Keyser soze

shoshin

This guy, if he's scum, is making a statement that these two (now confirmed both town) should be eliminated from the lynchpool. If he's scum he's shooting himself in the foot. Which scum often do, but it seems implausible because it doesn't really benefit him that directly, other than the general "anything scum does, they do it for towncred" thing.

hot take: scum is among bernie, nsg, nauci, momrangal, and the worst

Now, I'm not going to talk too much about the whole distancing point because that was never the reason I townread stungun (and I won't go to the length to read stungun's offsite meta) but I do think that he is oddly focused. Of course, there's a chance that he just nailed 2/3 in his lynchpool on D1 that early, that's possible and it happens all the time. In a pool of 5, that's not actually even incredibly impressive by random chance. But I do think that sudden burst of focus, followed up by backing off (focusing on bernie, skitter, irrelephant), is plausibly a non-commital distancing effort.

PS(parting statement): KEYSER IS TOWN NO MATTER WHAT; my strongest TR has never EVER been wrong regardless of my own alignment. It has resulted in me replacing into a game on N1 and correctly neighbouring a town player AFTER A D1 scum lynch, and taking full advantage of it to eventually win a game for town in LYLO, so you can trust this read with your life. There’s a definite chance shoshin is scum, but regarding keyser DON’T FALL FOR THE SHIT OTHERS ARE FEEDING YOU RE: HIS READ. SOMEBODY IS ACTIVELY TRYING TO PLANT SEEDS OF DOUBT HIM, AND IT’S WORKING TOO!

Here is the main reason I've been townreading Gustavo for so long. This just seems like the towniest replace out ever. I know that some people don't like to read people based on this stuff but this really feels like it's bleeding town. He has a confident read. It feels genuine. He wants it to stick even when he leaves. He's appealing to his own credibility to eliminate a target from the lynchpool.

2. Mom/Worst wagons

Ill only vote you/skittle/elephant today.

Sorry I left off nauci.

More reasons to dislike the mom wagon. I don’t even have a read on mom but like the reasons just suck

Not that my opinions matter to anyone but my gut says mom flips town. The reasons are hella weak and the lack of a counter speaks volumes.

So heres the thing. Gustavo here, if hypothetical scum, is playing a game that I would probabilistically call more likely town than scum (it's plausibly either). I think most people here would be null-scum reading or flat out scumreading their partner if their partner is Mom. But Gustavo is consistently trying to redirect away from mom, both explicitly (by calling the wagon bad) and implicitly (by strongly focusing elsewhere). On paper this looks really scummy but in context I'm a lot more conflicted.

I feel like Bernie is probably town. NM and TW are leaning town. that's about it

At first I thought that townreading TW was a pretty town thing to do, but I realized I was still stuck in the "BV is getting bussed by TW" mindset that I was entertaining. I think that townreading TW is pretty plausible reaction from a hypothetical Gustavo partner. Becuase if Gustavo is signing off on TW suicidally faking a guilty on BV, what's the best result that comes from that for scum? BV gets lynched, then TW gets lynched.

given mom flipped scum, I am now considering tw could be scum.

This, in context, is a strongly town post.

3. Lategame

Logic says bv today. My heart/gut says it’s errant.

I think that the paranoia that Gustavo is giving off feels a little fake to me. Here's the thing: what would I EXPECT scum to do today? They need to make it so that someone else gets lynched today while simultaneously making it as doable as possible to get someone else lynched tomorrow as well. I think that this falls somewhat into that category.

And I now immediately regret making this post now. I should have let errant post first.

I don't remember what I thought about this post but reading it again makes me get towny vibes.

I don’t really think I need to put effort into today since it’s not mylo/lylo.

I think Gustavo is pushing this angle pretty hard, which makes me think on its face that it's scummy. However, he's actually putting in more effort than most other days. So. I don't know what to believe really

@errant. Where are these obvious hints that he was hinting at a Pr? Why if you saw them was he not higher on your list?

I find it odd that you only talked about my un-nuanced reads list on that day rather than the more accurate (in my opinion) Readslist 2.0 a couple pages later. I think I alluded pretty hard to me being conflicted on worst because I thought that he was acting all around scummy but again, the PR thing. I believe I caught something on D1 (don't want to go back and check) of him saying that it was fine if people scumread him, he could go and towntell later. Then there was the "I think I got NK'd" that I mentioned. Overall he was being cavalier about people who scumread him.

I’m not afraid to die. You clearly are

Why are you pushing the "I'm not afraid to die" angle so hard?

4. Conclusions

Gun to my head, and before I go and check out Skitter's ISO or Mom/worst ISOs, if I had to pick I'd pick Gustavo for last scum. I think there are a lot of things that point to strong town from Gustavo, in summary: the turn on TW on D3, the Stungun replaceout, towny behavior today (although I'm beginning to rethink that) but I think that all of those things have the possibility to be fake. I think that from an objective lens Gustavo is more towny than BV, if we went post by post and I pointed out all the things that I thought were town. But going with my gut and what I think the scumteam was thinking at the time BASED around the D3 play, I think Gustavo makes more sense as last scum.

--------

Skitter:

1. D1 and D2

this isn't in any particular order:
townlean: bernie, stungun, probably keyser
scumlean: math, duckling, mom, gamma

A couple things regarding the distancing:
I haven't played with skitter before but multiple flipped town have said that this was way outside of Skitter's scumrange and I think that's a very credible way to read someone. Hopefully either Keyser or Irre could back this up if they've played with her before.

That being said, I have lost many a game due to writing off someone as town because they bussed multiple partners in the early game. I have seen many a game lost due to writing off someone as town because they bussed. I'm not saying that's what skitter did but reaffirming that skitter is almost 100% meta-cleared would be nice.

Btw I don't think duckling and mom are scum together

You and everyone else, apparently, wow. Think it's kind of funny that I've seen something to this effect in basically all three of the people. But just looking at skitter's iso, her progression on the worst seem quite genuine, and it's quite a sticky read.

Okay, yeah. I'm going to stop reading skitter's early game ISO. If she's scum then her early game was so focused around bussing one partner, then the other, then both, in trajectories that BOTH seem genuine, that it just seems so far out of the range of what ANY rational scum would do, not just skitter. Even the longest and most dedicated busses are single-target. This one isn't it, packing this one up.

---------

Scum associations:

1. Mom's ISO

HEY I SEE YOU.

talk to me about your pred. What do you think about the talk around him?

I'm using this post as a metric for how Mom is capable of interacting with a partner in a casual-seeming way and townreading a partner

Irrelephant11
Shoshin
stungun0404
Keyser Soze

Mathdino
Bernie

Nauci
the worst
northsidegal*
Invisibility

Gamma Emerald
skitter

That's where I stand. Moved invis with meta considered

Weirdly, Mom had worst pretty low despite consistently wanting people to townread him/townreading him herself.
Which means that Mom places some value on disproportionately undervaluing a townread that she fakes on a partner.
Which....... actually doesn't help me at all. Because she's townreading both Mathdino and stungun. :\

Other than that, not a lot of content I found of note. Moving on.

2. Worst's ISO

Stungun I've been struggling with in particular, do you see anything particularly town telling yet?

asdf i don't know.

If I'm correct:

Yes I can vouch for it
No I don't want to go into tells in great detail

but I strongly suspect Mr. Sanders is town

Oh yeah I read Shoshin as yikes level lynchbait and your push was scummy

My sense of reading worst is that he's the type of scum that likes to attack mislynch wagons on people he knows are town for some towncred (that's just my impression).
This has the potential to be pretty useful, I think.

no hot meta

also what??
I love the rapdino shtick but please don't use it as an excuse not to pay attention

My gods, okay. This is actually a pretty scummy interaction from where I'm standing.

yikes there's prolly 2 scum on my wagon

pushing a cw this hard makes me think Mom is probably the third

So what is worst's strategy here? He wants Mom to flip red and get him the towncred. The scum, as of this point, are playing intentionally around the fact that there are two leading wagons on scum right now.

holy mother of busywoek

if the cop isn't on BVslot they should be embarrassed

At this point, worst knew that he was going to claim a guilty on BV. This was before the Mom flip, right after Mom started being active again. It doesn't make sense. Nothing makes sense. That being said I think that the worst is intentionally ignoring a lot of nuance in his BV read. What does that mean? I don't know. I don't knowwwww

i was a conspicuous cw to mom here.

See my point before. In a vacuum I'd say that this makes BV scummier but how does this POSSIBLY gel with the BV guilty plan which seems like had already been set in stone?
Well, it kinda doesn't. So either the scum here are grasping at straws and playing without thinking all that much and I'm crazy overthinking it (I am) and/or BV is somewhat scummier from this.

3. Worst's Guilty

He should have let me gambit in style rather than killing my buzz.

At this point I'm really going into "tenuous conspiracy theories" territory here, but I'm noticing that the word gambit is... an interesting choice of diction here. Nothing about withholding a guilty for a couple of days to see reactions really says gambit to me? Just a fun thing that I didn't notice before, but it was an interesting potential weak-scumslip (or maybe I'm just wearing hindsight goggles)

w/e BV owns a firearm

Is it just me that feels like there are a lot of moving parts in this claim? I find it a little hard to buy that worst and BV collectively decided that
1) worst has a guilty on BV
2) BV is going to fakeclaim a 1-shot BP role
3) worst isn't a cop or a tracker or anything, he's a GUNSMITH (???)

Like it just seems like a disjointed set of claims that reads more to me like "real thing that sort of clashes with fake thing" aka BV's real claim vs worst's weird fake claim rather than BV and worst going "okay! these are the things we're going to claim!"
Another point in favor of BV being town?

even night gunsmith. I'm some bloke who hates war, I'll check later if you want

Another interesting observation for anyone doubting skitter-- skitter predicted that worst was going to be an even night something, I believe, far before he claimed. (At least, I think it was skitter.) Seems like a really unlikely and out-there thing to do if skitter is worst's partner.

4. Conclusion

ISOing almost ended up leaving me with more uncertainty than before but ultimately my feelings aren't really changed. I'd think Gustavo is the last scum, BV is a big pile of unknowns but a lot of things just really clearly point to him being town in spite of everything, skitter is town or my worldview in general just breaks down.

I got a lot less from scum associations than I thought I would which is a little disappointing.
Anyway, that's all I got. I'll just sheep Irre/Keyser, keep talking to anyone who wants to and about anything, and wish yall the best of luck. This post is directed to Irre, who asked me to express more detailed thoughts on Gustavo and BV. You're welcome. don't say i didn't do anything for you LMAO

[Errantparabola]

If town, What do you need to do today? They need to make it so that someone else gets lynched today while simultaneously making it as doable as possible to get someone else lynched tomorrow as well if they lynch wrong today.

It’s basically the same motivation as scum. I don’t need to be right today to win. If you are town, you don’t need to be right today to win. If BV is town he doesn’t need the be right today to win.

Yeah, I guess you're right? idk

BV/Mathdino

Why no Mathdino posts?

What are your thoughts about math scum reading mom more but joining gamma for little to no reasons?

What about bv attempting to shade me for the same thing except i hadn’t expressed a read on mom yet and I had reasons for gamma?

I read Mathdino's ISO and had nothing to talk about. I might take a look at the other things but... not anytime soon

Is it within Gustavo's scumrange to be playing like this right now?

[Errantparabola]

Also, you originally made this point a few times before. He's just repeating what you said. Your basis was that you played with me and don't think I would make this play based on playstyle/personality. errant never played with me so I don't know where he's drawing this from. I got some FishytheFish vibes there.

asfdfdsjfds
MY point wasnt a meta thing

and no I'm not like going through skitter's ISO and paraphrasing what she said just to make it look like i'm doing something if thats w hat youre insinuating

I'm obviously not playing fucking defeatist if i'm spending 6 hours to generate as detailed of reads as possible and no one gives a fuck about them
i will anticipate your analysis

[Errantparabola]

2658 - Can you actually point to evidence that you're friends? You only played a couple of games together.

we talk in sitechat and discord semi regularly, we're friends on facebook, i send him blurry pictures of myself on snapchat, etc

[Errantparabola]

I have posted all information from the two flipped scum, if the information you are looking for is not there, it was not provided for them

in the context of my post I was saying that they didnt have roleclaims

people voting gustavo do you think he is
a) town that you just think should be lynched
b) scum that has actively given up on the game
c) scum that is trying to win by employing a honestly really risky strategy of begging to be lynched
d) B but hoping for an offchance of C

If you think its C or D then.... I dont know I'm kind of not convinced?
Like..... I'd expect scum to eventually back off from that hill but it really seems like gustavo is willing to die on it

and maybe by making this post i'm doing exactly what he wants me to do

but

oh well

[Errantparabola]

mafia sucks

[Errantparabola]

Gustavo is lynched
brassherald comes out and says that we've.... just been.... fucking

pranked!!!

it was all a joke! look the cameras are here and here! you should have seen the look on your face! there were no more scum after all!
turns out that it was a insanely townsided 11 v 2!
We all get nominated for kodak moment, have a good laugh about it, brassherald gets banned from modding

[Errantparabola]

You're the worst, seriously! (Did I say worst, I mean best)

i would never make this awful joke

[Errantparabola]

Also yeah i dont want to commit to anything,so what
Fight me

I have lived like that every day of every year of my life
I am self destructively indecisive

[Errantparabola]

((
Okay

[Errantparabola]

That wasnt the reason why i allowed myself to get lynched
I did that because I wasnt 100% sure who my partner was and with the interactions/claims that were out they had their own plan going on clearly, i thought that trying to push spmeone else could potentially harm their plan

Anyway thats all irrelephant (i say, while lambasting “the worst” jokes)

[Errantparabola]

My partner was
I’ll try digging up some other scum games but i play pretty infrequently so they might be oldish

[Errantparabola]

Irre her name is literally mom

[Errantparabola]

One final thing, to both skitter and BV: i know i made a couple of comments that you guys are extrapolating my defeatist attitude from but its obviously not like that (see: effort)

I care about the game (again clearly) and i was really frustrated at how keyser was doubting me and i will feel like shit if i get lynched in lylo

[Errantparabola]

BV is not reading my posts and it doesnt make me want to open this thread anymore

[Errantparabola]

Like, look

"ep is townreading gustavo yet not pressuring me so therefore ep knows that gustavo is going to flip town and wants to be in a better position tomorrow"

I've repeatedly said that I think gustavo has to be the scum and that BV, despite ANYTHING ELSE, just does't make sense as scum because of the TW guilty

But I think there are a bunch of reasons why Gustavo is towny and I have POINTED those reasons out NOT because I """"""know""""" Gustavo is going to flip town but because those are just my thoughts

It's like you've taken little slices out of my gameview and taken them out of context, you know? and i feel like youve done that a lot that's jst so infuriating to me

like you pointing at things i've done and inserting your own interpretations into them just makes me feel like shit and i literally have no response to them

what the fuck ever i'm done

[Errantparabola]

i dont enjoy playing mafia irre
i have an unhealthy relationship with mafia
I apologize for blowing up at you BV

[Errantparabola]

Yesterday someone wrongly (but semi-jokingly) accused me of cheating in a board game and I got so upset that I almost just quit playing.

(The joke is then I then went and talked to people in a forum game where the central mechanic is people accusing each other of being liars)

[Errantparabola]

I promised I would find my most recent scumgames

and legit, the most recent one other than DDuo I could find was this one all the way back from 2016 where I made 20 posts and got vigged. That was when mykonian was still here

Before that was this legendary game and that probably has a lot of juicy content for you to sink your teeth into, I think I got lynched right before LYLO in that one.

So I saved you the trouble of having to dig through 7 pages of my threads history.

[Errantparabola]

I'd go back and take a look at what I said during those games but, ew, 17-year-old me? No thanks, I'd rather forget about that motherfucker

[Errantparabola]

Thanks guys

[Errantparabola]

class is soon so I've gotta bounce but do not worry my friends... as we speak keyser is silently solving the game

[Errantparabola]

hey everyone, I'm sick so I'm probably going to sleep the day away but I'll be here ASAP

[Errantparabola]

I got shit on for not doing enough despite already doing a lot.

i feel you

EP, I hope you feel better soon!

thank you still half dead and delirious but youre a friend

What night did errant neighbor tw?

1 and part of it was i thought there was a good possibility he was town and wanted to sort him/talk him more

This was what I was referring to. If town errant saw that he’d know that was a scum slip. He would have brought that up.

That seems more of a s v s conversation and he messed up when he posted in the game thread.

waht
also bv is still scummier than me from your pov?

Also I know I’ve asked for this before but don’t remember seeing a response. I want to see these crumbs errant noticed that nobody else did

i already responded to this
on d1 he said that it was okay if ppl scumread him he could go and towntell later and he brushed off a lot of scumreads
and on d2 he said he thought he was the n1 nightkill
and it wasn't "nobody else" that noticed it
other people noticed it

but ended D1 not t/reading him... but then still neighbourized him...

i have no response to this because i dont remember this but i'm pretty sure i thought worst was town

EP’s contributions today have been minimal OR focused on getting Gustavo lynched.

ok

If Gustavo flips town I’m gonna be looking at Errant tomorrow.

well im sure glad that i think bv and skitter are town then

@Errant please answer BV’s questions

hwaaa?
i went through his iso and didnt see questions

[Errantparabola]

I scumread worst because he was doing scummy things on D2. It seemed to me he was softing pretty blatantly. So he was either a town PR or a scum faking a PR
That was why I was conflicted on worst
I feel like I've said all of this before
if keyser is willing to end the day I'm willing to hammer i think it's pretty implausible its anyone but gustavo

[Errantparabola]

blease...

[Errantparabola]

if this ends the game im changing my avatar to a screenshot of keyser's hammer vote

[Errantparabola]

thats objectively very likely but i just think that bv and skitter are even more likely town

[Errantparabola]

well then i just cant wait for lylo

[Errantparabola]

You didn’t answer why you voted somebody you town read and thought was a Pr right after 2 townies did.

shrug

You weren't town reading TW by the end of D1... but still neighborized him.

like i said many many times before, I have neither a justification nor response to this

out of bv and errant, I feel like errant is being less helpful, he seems to be dancing around questions. I believe I did ask for these crumbs he saw by the worst and I don't remember him pointing them out.

Gustavo: "what crumbs did you see from the worst"
EP: *answers the question*
Gustavo: "i dont think EP asnwered the question. what crumbs did you see from the worst?"
EP: *answers the question*
Gustavo: "i still dont remember if EP answered the question. what crumbs did you see from the worst?"

is this like talking to an NPC?

Keyser good luck tonight
Here's hoping errant is the nightkill

anyone secretly a useful pr who held out longer than nauci?
that would be my favorite twist

i can fulfill both of these conditions in one fell swoop

TWILIGHT-VIG: MYSELF

[Errantparabola]

please tell me gustavos just trolling us

[Errantparabola]

I'll respond to stuff tomorrow but I'm lazy/busy/tired tonight.
skitter, are you here?

[Errantparabola]

Keyser might kill me for this, but might as well.
VOTE: Errantparabola

[Errantparabola]

UNVOTE:
Just making sure you're town

[Errantparabola]

yeah
VOTE: BV

[Errantparabola]

see you tomorrow!

[Errantparabola]

not a big deal
you were locked as town already to me, didnt want keyser to waste his time

[Errantparabola]

will respond tonight, I have a final

[Errantparabola]

My final is 7-10PM PST on Thursday. Feel free to end it before then but this game is not a priority until after that.

i will prob be voting ep since i think bv is prob out of his scumrange - ep if you have any compelling reason why i oughtn't do that let me know

I think this LYLO has been about pressuring me and letting BV coast which is really really bad and gamelosing and I think that I (subjectively) have been way out of my scumrange since the early game as well. The thing is, yeah, I have compelling reasons that I personally think just make me objectively town but how can I present them in a way that doesn't seem disingenuous? At this point everyone is operating from the standpoint that I'm scum so if I say "well this is a thing that I've done that's town" and you'll go, "aha! So as self-aware scum, that was fakeable!"

on day3 he's calling tw's pr soft 'the elephant in the room' day2 when i don't think it was that obvious or important or relevant day2 (the other person who called major attention to the softing thing was interestingly mom

I'm not going to go back and make sure that this all actually happened, but I remember that the reason I said that was because I noticed that both Bernie and Nauci had picked up on the same thing. And I think I alluded to that at some point on D2.

From D1:

No longer townreading worst.

I still don’t know why you neighbourized TheWorst... you may have explained before, but nothing has resonated with me yet.

Why not choose to share a town pt with one of your strong town reads?

Here's the thing. You're putting more thought into it than I did. And I've said that, yeah, I don't really know. I didn't think about who I neighborized that carefully. As shameful as this sounds I (and really the majority of people) don't really strive to maintain a coherent thought process in a game and as objectively scummy whatever inconsistency appears, it happens, and it happens all the time. I've said this multiple times before and I don't know why you expect me to suddenly come up with a better explanation right now.

If scum can fake that level of neighborhood planning, I wouldn't put it past even an average scum player to post an authentic sounding "paraphrase" of a fake conversation.

A town BV who believed that both Gustavo and I had a chance of being scum on D4 would have brought this up yesterday and questioned me or someone one it instead of saving it for LYLO.

@ep: what were u thinking day2 after tw softed pr after you neighborized him

Generally I remember thinking that the worst was scummy but had a good chance of a PR. I did genuinely think it was obvious. Either Bernie was hinting that he saw the same things or I misconstrued him doing that. I can check back at some point. I hinted at being conflicted about the worst multiple times. I don't know when this was but Nauci pointed out that worst had a scum meta of fakeclaiming PR (maybe that was on Day 3?) and that sealed the deal.

if bs hadn't intervened i think tw was hoping to get bv lynched and like ... tw doesn't expect to believe to survive to endgame on that i think

I mean, yeah. This was what I thought yesterday. Basically my working argument is that the worst was really lazy about it, just repeating the same thing over and over again and perhaps that was in an attempt to come across as scummier so he gets lynched

Scummy stunt who knows Skitter is town, and knows Skitter won't quickhammer.

If that's your interpretation then fine, but I have made it clear that I think that if skitter is scum we've lost the game. If skitter was scum then we'd titter about it for a couple days before mislynching and losing anyway. I knew I was going to get chewed out if that was the case but I yeah, you could say that I knew Skitter was the town because I have been pretty damn sure of it.

So what was your gameplan... don't get involved with the misslynches too hard... gain some towncred via the neighborizor claim... then survive til the end?
Tell me why I shouldn't believe in this narrative.

You're expecting me to have an inflated sense of my own survivability. I rarely make it to endgame as scum, or as unconfirmed town. I don't have staying power. I'm a lurker at heart. But again, asking me to justify my towniness is a losing battle on my end. I've accepted that whatever it is, my playstyle, my general activity, my lack of skill, BV's towniness, creates a gamestate that's just incredibly difficult to reverse and I've pretty much thought that since D4.

@ep: do you tend to vote a lot as town?

No. I don't vote that much as scum either, but who knows? I've had one scumgame in the past million years.
I **believe** these are my most recent towngames.

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=74559
viewtopic.php?f=127&t=74689

will respond tonight, I have a final

Good luck!

Thank you

i think i'm voting ep, but i think he should have a chance to say what he wants to after his final because it could just be he had a very busy few days. that's probably a generous read of the situation but eh studying for finals can be kinda stressful and eat up large chunks of time

Trust me I am physically and mentally dying, my friend

[Errantparabola]

Ep, if you're town, sorry

Honestly, don't be. If I failed to convince both you and Keyser, well, that's not on the both of you, that's my own shortcomings as a player.

Also I wish you luck on your final, what's it in?

Computer Architecture!

Also I've kinda had the vibe for a while now that you weren't really enjoying this game and I hope I didn't like super contribute to that

Happens in every game eventually. And you're not contributing to it at all. I wasn't lying when I said this was one of the best playerlists I've ever played with, and honestly you and Irrelephant are the spearheads (is that the right word?) of that.

[Errantparabola]

Also ep i hope ur fonal went well!

EHhhhhhhhhhh............

Great game and town deserved to win 100%, I felt it was a lost cause as soon as Nauci cleared the two most lynchable people in the game.
Great modding, very smooth and well done on brass's part.

Nauci/Shoshin/Irrelephant/Skitter (and really, everyone in the playerlist) played a very very analytical and cohesive game. I'd love to see any of you four around more often and I think that even compared to, say, 2017 or 2016, the ideas of what is scummy, how to play, how to scumhunt, etc. have all shifted in noticeable ways and the site meta has evolved quite interestingly, I think that's really exciting and all of you were just wonderful. Especially Rask and Shoshin in the early game I felt were incredibly perceptive, skilled at finding the town, and actively and strongly engaged, and I intend on nominating Shoshin for a Rising Star scummy for her play here as I think it is decently deserved.

Everyone in LYLO did a great job of seeing through my admittedly extremely shameless AtE there, although I will admit that most of it was genuine, and a decent part of it was accurate to my town meta. And BlackVoid played excellently in the endgame, much better than I did, haha. It's a damn shame that I ended up having to 1v1 him, post-neighborhood claim I was hoping to try and get everyone to see how obviously town he was so that he would be justified as a nightkill.

worst and Mom, thanks for being a supportive and fun scumteam!

[Errantparabola]

And yes, for the record: if there is any reunion game I'd ever play in, it would be for this playerlist.

[Errantparabola]

I wanna spec