Open 731: Twin Trap (Game Over)

[Poseidon]

VOTE: Egg
For having the tastiest name.

I gotta disagree, tastiest goes to the french cheese.

VOTE: Fromage

[Poseidon]

Because I find it’s a good way to get out of RVS. Helps me judge interactions and gather info. It hasn’t failed me yet, and I doubt it will start now.
Egg is scum now btw.
VOTE: Egg

Ys, it is very clear that you are trying to paint me as scum for something that is not actually that scummy.
VOTE: A50

As much as I enjoy pancakes with syrup, I don't like flip-floppy OMGUS pancake players
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Inferno

[Poseidon]

Oho
Burger has scumslipped in an attempt to get rid of me
He doesn’t know that the only scumgame I’ve ever played is one of the marathon games from last month. (A fact that both drives me crazy and I am very proud of because it gives me very good townmeta)
I have never been scumpartners with Manatee, not have I been partners with anyone else in the regular style of game.
VOTE: Burger

Join me, brothers. I have found the true scum!

Yeah I stand by my vote.

Semi reply to Jaber, phone posting so shortish reply. I’m sensing a good depth of logic with Burger, and a solid understanding of the game. Can’t say if that’s pro-town read but it makes me a little confident

[Poseidon]

Can’t quote easy with phone, but I would think for Inferno, a claim would be beneficial to lessen the L-2, otherwise you just read as even more scum. Which is why I stand by my vote doubly.

May I ask why I’m a scum read? Or did I miss a point.

[Poseidon]

@Eragon

fair enough, I vaguely recall someone saying that I'm a likely SR; but could have just been tired at the time. I do apologize for the inactivity. Trying to get back in the swing of things. For the time being, my only computer access is at work so most of my posting is from phone; and phones HATE the multi-quote function on this site.

Anyone got any reads I should look at away from Inferno?

BACKGROUND

While this account is new, my old profile was deactivated and I have played several games under the user KrazyEyeKilla7. Just been years for me, so it's good to be back in action.

[Poseidon]

If Eragon+A50 is the scumteam, I’m gonna laugh my head off.

If I flip scum I owe you a big dinner!

And I’ll owe him a thousand acre mansion on Mount Olympus :3

YOU MAY NOT TAKE MY LAND ON OLYMPUS

[Poseidon]

So why aren't we lynching Manatee?

Subbed out, I think give the replacement a chance to gauge the situation first

[Poseidon]

Do you mind reading manatee? I know they replaced out, but it might be good.

Yeah I'll check up.

intent to hammer

in 24 hrs

I honestly don’t understand why everyone’s so worked up over the fact that I’m refusing to claim because my three strongest scumread are literally trying to force it out of me.
Maybe if you’d all back off a fricking second, some reason would come to light.

The entire reason, imo, is this absurdly long day phase. Plus, your refusal to reveal just paints you as sus

[Poseidon]

Poseidon, the fact that manatee replaced out doesn't make him town.

Never said he was confirmed town. I said give the replacement a chance to contribute since Manatee has done damn near nothing

[Poseidon]

Where did the word confirmed come from?

I voted him because I thought he was scum. The replace out doesn't change my read. So I'm leaving my vote on the slot I still think is scum. I still don't understand after ten years of playing this game why other people don't do that.

misworded sorry. I meant "townread" Looking back on it all, yeah he's been very vague but it could just be dismissive/disinterest? Like I said, kinda wanna give the replacement at least a chance to contribute before getting the axe. Not trying to take away any reads, just don't be hasty to kill the inactive.

[Poseidon]

[Poseidon]

Good catch. There's no substance to back up his actual vote aside from "fluff". And the account is too old to be n00b. Got any other references besides the slight backtrack?

[Poseidon]

A lot of Eragon's posts contain only fluff. (35, 60, 62) I don't like it. VOTE: Eragon

FOS: Inferno. I don't like how much time he spends defending himself and how little scumhunting he does.

Agree on most posts but 54 feels kind townie. What are your thoughts on it?

Eragon's wall feels townie btw. He sticks his head out and gives us something to discuss.

I don't like how Burger put Inferno at L-1 and is fine with quicklynching him. Yes, inferno's behaviour has been consistent but I doubt this is a scum tell. In 58 Burger says he wants to hear more from poseidon and me before he puts inferno at L-1. Poseidon posts hardly anything 76 and I post very little. Then he just puts inferno at L-1. In 58 he said he feels uneasy quicklynching. But I don't recognize any uneasiness in 130 .

I also don't like 97. It contains a lot of speculation and focuses on one single interaction between manatee and inferno. Imho it's WIFOM. In addition to that I don't understand why he looks at manatee's meta but not at inferno's 98. Other people mentioned the possibility of inferno being lynchbait. Burger just excludes this possibility. 114 I cannot follow his thought process.

To conclude, I think Burger might be scum due to his inconsistent behaviour.
VOTE: GameNBurger

I'm gonna give BOTD to the first post as a pressure-vote, but then we continue onward to more flip-flopping. And then calling someone else inconsistent?
That said, I'm still very sus of your slot @

Wh4t

due to Inferno's behavior.

[Poseidon]

After quickly skimming ISOs my reads are:

{BuJaber, Egg, Eragon, GameNBurger, Poseidon}
{A50}
{Manatee, Fromage}

GNB's long posts made me lazy so I haven't given transparency on that read or on poseidon, however I will do so on request at a later time if it helps you all to read me.

Would the majority still like me to claim?

Is your tier system
town
neutral
scum
?

And you're welcome to claim if you want but it seems the pressure has backed off a bit as far as majority goes

[Poseidon]

I mean, I've stated opinions on you (inferno), Burger, Fromage, and didn't get much from Manatee. But now that there's a replacement I can checky check *shrug*.
I get a scumread from you or Fromage, given the push against Fromage from you I doubt you'd be on the wagon against your own teammate. One sec plz for Tora read

[Poseidon]

in before you're the one who replaced into a mafia slot

Possible scumslip?

wh4t why are you voting fromage? I just ISO'd him and don't see what's scummy about it

The votes against Fro are (i think) for the inconsistent flip-flopping and lack of actual evidence against his targets.

you get 2 PRs and possible guilties on mafia.

Don't you mean "we?"

I believe you just scum slipped.

VOTE: Toranaga L-1.

OPPORTUNISTIC VOTE

Simple phrasing and over-analyzing from your end just makes it seem like you're going for the easy target to get eyes off of you, or even Fromage

(still could be buddies but like I said in previous post, would be a bold move to lean attention towards him)

I understand you're unlikely to un-tunnel yourself from this read cause you wanna be right but you're wrong, your reasons so far are alarmingly poor and your fromage read is bad as well

I'm VT so I'm not a terrible lynch and I don't have a good case for anyone being scum from what I can read, so if you wanna move on with the gamestate go ahead

play better though.

Easy claim, not convinced.

READS

Burger/A50/Buj

Egg/Tor/Eragon

Fro/Wh4t

[Poseidon]

OPPORTUNISTIC VOTE Simple phrasing and over-analyzing from your end just makes it seem like you're going for the easy target to get eyes off of you, or even Fromage

The timing of this is strange, I already told you I would do this here:

I'll move my vote to VOTE: Fromage but I'd happily move to Manatee once Toranaga confirms he's scum.

So, why is it opportunistic after I change my read of you, rather than when I enter agreeing with the general Manatee scumread?

Not sure how anything I'm doing is taking attention away ftom myself, or why it would make sense to attempt to take attention away from myself when I'm not under any pressure?

The lingering votes on myself from you and Tor give me bad vibes. I don't understand how Tor can say he town reads my slot because of Inferno's replace out and yet keep his vote on me. I don't really understand why Poseidon scumread Inferno?

What's with the aggro hunting, Wh@t? And are you seriously surprised I'm skeptical of your spot after all the Inferno antics?

[Poseidon]

Sorry, quote was old. But I'll reply to it.
You stated that you'd go if they CONFIRM they're scum. But you jumped to an (again) opportunistic "scum slip" when it was really just a matter of simple phrasing that anyone would understand. It's avoiding any potential pressure, not a difficult strategy to see. I still read your slot as scum.

[Poseidon]

What's with the aggro hunting, Wh@t? And are you seriously surprised I'm skeptical of your spot after all the Inferno antics?

Well done dodging the questions and taking a chance to throw the shade back at me. I'm pretty happy with my read on you.

Refresh my memory. Which question are you referring to?

[Poseidon]

[Poseidon]

Alright Poseidon train! Let me get all caught up before you set me ablaze please.

[Poseidon]

Lurker filth...for being away for a day?

[Poseidon]

I got nothing here. You all are clearly missing your target and it's not like I have any ground of evidence since this is behavioral based and we're still in D1. Just because Wh4t is good at passing off as a townread doesn't excuse Inferno's actions prior. It's still the same slot.

[Poseidon]

Just because I scumread you doesn't mean you're confirmed scum, hence I can see the logic of Fromage being possible scum. Like I said, it's an unlikely strategy especially on D1, but you could have been directing attention to your buddy, while taking away from yourself if he IS your buddy and flips because of your push.
I leave Tor in my lower tier null (sorry I didn't expand on the spectrum) because I'm not really convinced either way by his actions.

Inferno was mad flailing and refusing to reveal role when under an L-1 pressure and asked by multiple players. And we were past RVS.

My TR's are from seeing a depth of experience with no scumslips that I've noticed.

[Poseidon]

Okay okay possible misinterpretation. When I say "flail" I mean constantly changing votes, idk if that's the actual term..

Looking back, my vote was after his first flip. Then I solidified my vote after another vote change, and then the lack of reveal made it even more scummy. Very very defensive behavior on Inferno's end.

[Poseidon]

Then by all means, throw down the hammer. We've been in d1 for 9 days and nothing has been done.

[Poseidon]

I think what you call an “inability to express genuine reactions” is really more of a “genuine indifference after 9 days of nothing” but hey whatever helps you sleep at night

[Poseidon]

I got caught up in something but still around

wh4t: WRT poseidon's posting near hammer, it looks genuine. his posting otherwise has been pretty poor, he only showed up to defend himself and promised reads he never made. he is probably never town PR if he is town cause he just invited the lynch without claiming or softing anything as well. if you're legitimately townreading poseidon for that, you're disregarding two weeks of mafia playing to townread fakeable emotions someone is having near lynch. his activity is the most telling thing about his slot and it's wolfy. poseidon is definitely around lurking because he conveniently shows up when he is a wagon, and then he disappears again when heat gets off him. there's no interest in solving the game. he is voting your slot since inferno was playing and never reevaluated on it, which is pretty telling.

I mean, I’m phoneposting unless it’s after 9pm (pacific time) and it’s a hassle to post from phone as we all know. But yeah totally call it convenient showing up. I’ve only been wagoned once now? Haven’t “disappeared” once the heat is off.

And now wh4t is just aiming at you for sake of ending d1 with no solid backing? If wh4t wasn’t scum, then why the hurry to get on a wagon? I realize I just complained about nothing happening; sue me. I’m not changing up my votes just to end the day.

[Poseidon]

So by working/sleeping BEFORE heat is off me, I’m being convenient. And I’m simply replying to the topic relevant to me. Got an Itchy trigger finger?

Excuse me if I have some tunnel vision towards Wh@t since I’m really not convinced of any townie-ness. I’m heading to work early right now so I’ll have about 2.5 hours to review all the craziness. I gave reads a while ago but obviously could stand to refresh. If you don’t hear from me by 9 pm (Pacific) then by all means lynch me

[Poseidon]

A50 & Wh4t

Spoiler:

So I'm not too fond of the wagon pairing done by Wh4t and A50. Mostly because 50 is just piggybacking with no real substance. Take a look at 518 and see that there's plenty of talk but nothing of me. Could be to apply pressure?

But then we hop on over to 552 and 559 which clearly show distaste for jumping around, followed by a jump onto Wh4t's wagon against Tor. Not saying let's light up the torches...but let's call a spade a spade

A50 & Wh4t = scumread/bad VT

Tor

Spoiler:

287
THIS hits as a scumslip, given my read on Wh4t's slot. I don't know the meta of anyone but someone stated that Tor has a scummy tendency? Either way, I don't like it. And Tor has clearly read my ISO multiple times and didn't decide to hop on against me until 7-8 pages later. Giving no personal reason other than

"I just ISO'd poseidon and have no idea what possessed me to townread it"

(514). So I'm kind of confused as to how my inactivity at the start of all this suddenly turned into scumlurking. I actually tend to reply to what is relevant to my case (aka Tor and Wh4t giving me the interrogation) and then when I have a good amount of time, I can look at ISO's and full pages of content.

Tor = Sus

Bujaber

Spoiler:

Not a lot of hunting going on, mostly just posting reads and fluff from what I can see. Most substance came from 77 and 344. Not a scummy vibe, very VT i think, almost nonchalant.

GameNBurger

Spoiler:

Good depth up through 395, then it's just fluff. I don't blame though because this day has been dragging on and the reads from 184 and 381 seem to actually have reasoning that wouldn't waver too much. Likely town.

Eragon

Spoiler:

Either very pro-town great at hunting, or very very sneaky scum. I'm gonna have to give BOTD on this one and say obvtown. Tons of depth in replies and reasons. Most votes cast seem to be pressure votes, as they are usually unvoted before a hammer is thrown.

Fromage has done damn near nothing so far. Needs to catch up I feel?

[Poseidon]

I like your thoughts

you're wrong on wh4t

287 is... IDK what to say. wh4t is my best friend in this site and someone I love playing with. I know she subbed in for reasons, it's not cause I was reading this thread or anything.

When you get the chance, I'd like to have some reasoning thrown my way as to why she should be a townread

[Poseidon]

^ Not a fan of inactivity votes but I get it. It definitely feels like this is just a big wagon circle. And if it will get the game moving along then MAYBE. I just don't see any reasoning to lynch (or to not lynch)

p-edit:
I won't count the first point (never scum), but I can get behind the actions presented. And since there's no pressure wagon happening
UNVOTE:
Doesn't change my read much tho. Especially A50

[Poseidon]

OH! In regards to Egg (forgot to ISO)

Liking the detail, doesn't really pick sides, kinda tells me VT. I'd like to know the read on me though from 562

[Poseidon]

For Tor, he could be your partner. Fair point on my wagon. I'm a bit jaded, if you wanna call it that, from Inferno's behavior. So you could be playing it off, but obvi I don't know for certain.

[Poseidon]

VOTE: Fromage

L-1

[Poseidon]

Okay, Tor's vote is opportunistic but I get that he doesn't want to get lynched.

I understand Wh4t's unhappiness about my lurking. He's right. I should be caught up.

Eragon and Poseidon definitely seem the most scummy on my wagon.

First off, if you look up 584 you'll note she's not the only one wanting you to catch up. And I'd

really

love to know where you get SR's from Eragon and myself.

I think there's enough info now to finish the game based on these amazing EOD wagons. I don't care who we lynch anymore but I'm 100% sure Tor is not scum based on many games playing together. I believe fromage 100% so never lynch him if scum leave him. I suspected he was a PR earlier when I said it would be safer to leave him but the random appearances became strange and I wanted decent content without a claim. I would bet the game on Egg being town too.

No matter what happens now I think town should have the game in the bag once flips and NKs happen. So glgl.

I think flipping burger is the optimal move rn so I'll stay here.

So what makes you believe fromage 100%? Is is the lack of substance behind his statements? His blanket claim of PR? You "suspected" he was PR because of lurking, but claimed I was scumlurking? What is the deal here???

[Poseidon]

And I'd really love to know where you get SR's from Eragon and myself.

You just sheeped the others and put me at L-1 like it was no big deal. And that's after A50 had said running unclaimed people up was bad. You also speculate about PRs when we previously established it was anti-town. 593 So I don't have a firm scumread of you but these actions are definitely anti-town.

I love that you say I'm "sheeping" when until sometime last evening, I've admittedly been on the Wh4t Wagon. Nothing wrong with a pressure vote. In fact, it's a fairly common strategy, and anyone stupid enough to throw down a hammer before a claim AND discussion is just begging to be lynched the next day.

And literally nowhere is ANYONE confirmed PR. The fact that Wh4t believes you so easily troubles me. Not about a potential scumbuddy; but about the way she is going about this game. Has

100% confidence

that Tor could never ever be scum and that you're telling the truth?

To summarize:

You're getting a scumread off of me based on a pressure vote (OMGUS much?) and from giving my own reads on someone who hasn't been confirmed town.

P-Edit:

Spoiler:

So what makes you believe fromage 100%? Is is the lack of substance behind his statements? His blanket claim of PR? You "suspected" he was PR because of lurking, but claimed I was scumlurking? What is the deal here???

Obviously I haven't explained myself well. At first I nitpicked his ISO noticing discrepancies between reads, but after reviewing it a few times I liked how he scumread Eragon contrary to the crowd and a lot of his thoughts hit on good points without an agenda or a need to look towny - this is when I said it would be safer not to lynch him. I said that because he seems very town but was lurking so I assumed the scumminess I picked up mightve been them being PR. Obviously I did not voice this before Fromage claimed because I did not want to out a potential PR. After the clusterfuck of L-1s and the reads I was getting off reactions I didn't mind putting pressure on fromage and I explicitly said don't claim when he was put to L-1 but it happened anyway. If he hadnt been so random in what posts he did catch up then I wouldn't have felt the need to pressure him for reads.

Overall your ISO is not towny Pose in that it doesn't feel like you were scumhunting, but I think you might just have difficulty communicating. In hindsight you continuing to tunnel me could be considered towny but idk.

Thank you for elaborating, that would have been better said when you unvoted without any text. And he claimed because Burger put on the pressure of "you HAVE to claim". I still don't like that you give him the stamp of obvtown, but I get the logic.

As for my communication, if you could maybe point out some things I could improve on in general chat so that I'm not as (for lack of a better word)

difficult

to reason with. Said with a smile, not a frown

[Poseidon]

Also, what about Eragon?

[Poseidon]

Still waiting for why Eragon is an SR,

Fromage

[Poseidon]

Saw Fromage's claim and uhhh….it's best if I don't comment on it.

I'd actually love to know your thoughts on the matter.

[Poseidon]

@GnB & @Poseidon: I need you two to cote Eragon or give reason not to.

584

[Poseidon]

I think we need to consolidate with one day left guys.

#VC please

By my count...
Wh4t (1): GameNBurger
Toranaga (2): Almost50, Egg
GameNBurger (1): Wh4t
Fromage (2): Toranaga, Poseidon
Eragon (2): BuJaber, Fromage
A50 (1): Eragon

[Poseidon]

I'm so confused right now

[Poseidon]

and you keep saying that yet you havent even voted me once.

He's just lurking to see if a train forms against you so he can hammer and get you out.

[Poseidon]

^

[Poseidon]

So A50 and Fromage want you gone scumbuddies?

[Poseidon]

basically saying that he doesnt want to get my wagon started but if people agree he will hammer and blend in with the majority

^

Poseidon I take it that you're scum reading A50 and town reading Eragon?

I mean not too much has changed since my in depth read. Eragon got a little aggro but I think that’s just being defensive towards a town that wouldn’t listen and decided to wagon him to the gallows

[Poseidon]

^ I'd be hesitant to throw around claims like that based on (what I think is) an RNG-role placement.

[Poseidon]

@BuJab

If he flips town, you’re up tomorrow.

VOTE: Toranaga

[Poseidon]

L-1

[Poseidon]

Don’t hammer yet, anyone (sorry for multipost). Still time to discuss

[Poseidon]

Poseidon unbote please.. tor will self hammer

You can do that???
UNVOTE:

[Poseidon]

The reason I voted Eragon was because it looked like A50 crumbed tracker earlier in his ISO. If BuJaber is the tracker I have no qualms putting him on the block either.

For whatever it’s worth I never got that vibe from 50.

[Poseidon]

I can't stand this indecision

Married with a lack of vision

Everybody needs to state a case
(and I mean a real one now if you want me to follow your vote).

Here poseidon.

Oh damn WAY back with the cryptic poem/lyrics. So, we get one inkling of LAMIST and a plethora of scum actions.

Spoiler:

41 - Early wagon pushing
216 - Opportunistic for inactivity (regardless of read)
348 - Attempting to hammer on a town claim with no proof, even though there were 5 VT's in total at the time, thinking it would give us some kind of safer alternative, when it really just throws the game more in favor of scum if there's a townflip
355 - claims to have given reads on most everyone, when (up to this post) there was only ONE post about such (176)
370 - Reconfirms hammering a VT claim
435 - Unvotes on someone he's been threatening hard with a hammer
482 - Enter the Eragon wagon which is backed up by "he's been townie but this one post seems really scummy"
Need I go on?

[Poseidon]

Great posting Pose!

Spoiler:

But seriously, I don't like A50's behavior at all.

[Poseidon]

I still wanna hear if there's any counter claims from our remaining players. Burger might take a bit; but we still have Egg and A50 to weigh in.

[Poseidon]

Town BuJaber wouldn't pull that gambit ime. He's either tracker or scum.

Not pointing the finger against Bu, but wouldn’t a town lynch today damn near solidify a scum win?

Down to
4 VT
1 PR
2 Scum

Lynch a townie, we’re down to 3 town 2 scum. And then it’s LyLo.
We really do need to be 100% on this vote today.

[Poseidon]

pretty sure he is tracker

Is that scumclaim?

[Poseidon]

Hence why I want to wait for a potential counter claim; because you're right in saying that he's either Tracker or Scum. So if there's a counter claim, we have some discussing to do.

Otherwise, let's light up the

Tor

-ches *giggles*

[Poseidon]

Absent tonight, be back in the AM

Just because I don't SR someone hard, doesn't mean I don't think it's not possible. Try to not think too hard and hurt yourself, A50 & Wh4t.

I can't stand this indecision

Married with a lack of vision

Everybody needs to state a case
(and I mean a real one now if you want me to follow your vote).

Here poseidon.

Oh damn WAY back with the cryptic poem/lyrics. So, we get one inkling of LAMIST and a plethora of scum actions.

Spoiler:

41 - Early wagon pushing
216 - Opportunistic for inactivity (regardless of read)
348 - Attempting to hammer on a town claim with no proof, even though there were 5 VT's in total at the time, thinking it would give us some kind of safer alternative, when it really just throws the game more in favor of scum if there's a townflip
355 - claims to have given reads on most everyone, when (up to this post) there was only ONE post about such (176)
370 - Reconfirms hammering a VT claim
435 - Unvotes on someone he's been threatening hard with a hammer
482 - Enter the Eragon wagon which is backed up by "he's been townie but this one post seems really scummy"
Need I go on?

There we go. An explicit scum claim.

"Attempting to hammer a town claim" doesn't go with any logic knowing Tor IS scum not Town. Why would you even assume a "Town flip" there when BuJ has already claimed a guilty? And how would my push to hammer SCUM be considered "scummy"??

Oh, yes please.. do go on.

It's not assuming a town flip, it's waiting for the off chance of a counter claim. We do not know any roles 100% until a lynch happens so why are you so quick to take anyone's word for anything? Your push was on D1 with no proof towards anything, so while it may have been a good push in retrospect; you also went into kill-mode when you decided that Eragon was guaranteed scum. How did that work out for you? Oh right, you lead the charge into killing a VT, exactly what you were prattling on about all D1

in before you're the one who replaced into a mafia slot

Possible scumslip?

ugh this is something personal with wh4t and idk, maybe she can clarify? anyway it refers to a past conversation we had privately and I understand how it looks weird without context

Easy claim, not convinced.

READS

Burger/A50/Buj

Egg/Tor/Eragon

Fro/Wh4t

if only I had randed PR instead.

Actually this is pretty bad. Pose shades Tor > Null reads him.

idk what a null read is to you guys, but to me it's "not sold they're scum, but definitely not sure if town".

[Poseidon]

Gonna be gone all tonight, be back in the AM

[Poseidon]

Whatever
VOTE: Poseidon