Open 731: Twin Trap (Game Over)

[Eragon]

Happy scum day Wh4t.


Also, I'll still answer any questions/do things you want.

[Eragon]

I just skimmed through Fromage and think there might be scum in there.

I’ll <hopefully> have time later today to acually explain it, bt I see lots of shade and very weak pushes, along with some cherry picking.
The only reason I had him as town was becuase I didn’t think that scum would be that reach him things(like my “fluff” but I am kinda new to the site so maybe Fromage thought I would be a mid-lynch, and once he realized I wasn’t a newbie he backed off)

[Almost50]

Can we please stop swinging between wagons? Make up your minds. Do we want to go down the safer route and lynch the claimed VT or do we want to lynch scum (and take a chance on outing a PR)? DECIDE ON THAT before you vote.

[BuJaber]

It's not either or don't make this into something it's not.

We have scum who claimed VT. What does your crystal ball of optimal play say about that?

[Almost50]

I already said it before many times, my friend. Optimal play should have been to lynch Tor regardless. I am not as sure as you that he will flip scum, but in these kinds of setups optimal play on D1 is to hammer the VT claim.

[BuJaber]

So if you believe that don't give people a choice.

[BuJaber]

MANIPULATE THE HIVEMIND

*epic music plays*

[Almost50]

This was a perfect example. Kop was pushed to L-1 on D1 and claimed VT. Had he been hammered on the spot it would have made the game much easier (he was the Mafia GF)

[Almost50]

So if you believe that don't give people a choice.

People don't like to be forced to make one move.

But you know what?

VOTE: Tor

For better or worse, I am going to play my own way myself. Others can decide for heir own too.

[LastManStanding]

Votecount 1.10

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch.

Wh4t

(2): Poseidon, GameNBurger

Toranaga

(3): BuJaber, Wh4t, Almost50

GameNBurger

(1): Fromage

Poseidon

(2): Toranaga, Eragon

Not Voting

(1): Egg

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-08-14 08:00:00)

[GameNBurger]

We've got two days to figure this out however I think I'm going to be V/LA tomorrow and Monday
I'm not sure but by the end of Today i'll know

So potential scum for me are in {Tor, Wh4t, Fromage, Poseidon}

Only 6 pairings possible So i'll try to find the most likely pairs and see if that helps get me a better picture at larger scum

However If i don't have time to look into all possible pairings then I'm just gonna follow the game theory logic and go for the safest lynch which is Tor

[Eragon]

AHHHHHH WHY DI I MINDMELD GAME SO MUCH!!!!


<also, tor, I’m sorry if I’m being a shit and you’ve already done this, but can you post a scum bracket or read brackets just so it can help see your thoughts if you are lynched and flip town>

[Egg]

I'd be scumreading manatee after #44 very hard and never letting it go. it's always easy to see the towny things your slot was doing before replacing in but manatee's early posting is shockingly bad.

but this is what happens when toranaga sama subs into your game. I save even the wolfiest town from guaranteed lynch.

toranaga bless.

ok moving on

Amished tell? See...Manatee and Tora's play have both been so scummy. I just can't get over that VT claim. Meh, deadline is coming up. I'm probably fine lynching there. Oh, wait. I just remembered the whole fake hammer thing too. Ugh.

I finished my reread and have a completely different view of the game now. I think scum are in Eragon/Fromage/Poseidon (in that order).

VOTE: Eragon

Eragon has been doing some townie stuff indeed, but taking a look at the bigger picture they seem to have been done for show. He often tried to feed the fire (especially on the Inferno/Manatee slots) but stayed uncommitted (by vote) for most of the time. If you take his posts separately you will probably TR him for each single one of them, but combined they didn't give the same impression. Also 377 for example is scummy enough on it's own.


I know this one's gonna be met by some strong opposition by many who have been TRing Eragon hard, and while I have played him before I do not have a strong meta on him either, so this is a read based purely on his play/posts in this thread.

I'm gonna have to ISO Eragon because he's been my strongest town read, but off the top of my head I can't say you're definitely wrong. I'll be doing that as soon as I am caught up and have more time. Will ISO Poseidon as well because I see a wagon popped up on him and have had him as a lazy town read and can't remember why.

GNB is trying to get town credit by metadiving when he doesn't have any reason to.

For what it's worth, I think this is an issue I've had with Game that I haven't really been able to verbalize. Some of his posting feels like unnecessary busy work. Like the Inferno interactions post for example. It's like he's thinking if he posts a lot of words, people will town read him. However, I haven't seen his town game and don't know if he's just someone who likes to look at things from every angle.

And remember: Do NOT CC if he claims a PR, and do NOT hammer until I've come and stated what I think is best play for the PRs (whether or not the claim is true)

Finally, something from Almost74 that I can get a read on

Can we please stop swinging between wagons? Make up your minds. Do we want to go down the safer route and lynch the claimed VT or do we want to lynch scum (and take a chance on outing a PR)? DECIDE ON THAT before you vote.

Scum all day. But what if Tor is scum?

______________

I'm gonna ISO Poseidon. That gets priority over the Eragon ISO because Eragon isn't gonna be lynched today anyway so there isn't much point. After that, I'll decide between Poseidon and Tor. I'm not voting wh4t and I don't think anyone else is going to be lynched.

_____________

What stands out:
-Inferno vote

could

be some early opportunism, but that's nothing solid.
-Post 196 asking why he's a scum read doesn't look good in my opinion. Especially considering it seems to have come out of nowhere.
-I didn't notice before that his "give the replacement a chance" was his first mention of manatee. I think I like that even less now.

_______________

Uhhhh. Something just came up and can't finish the ISO. I will before deadline though.

[Toranaga]

IDK how long I'll be home and able to post this weekend but I'm here now so yay

I'm resigned to being resolved today and think it's fine. I agree with it being mechanically proper play as no town PR has claimed yet.

[Toranaga]

I was under the impression you were townreading me, wh4t. what changed?

[Wh4t]

I just want to end the day now tbh. This game is frustrating. You would be the best info lynch though so sorry if you're town, I would've loved for us to own this game. Watching the people who resisted the Poseidon lynch and people give reasons for lynching you will be very telling in later days. If you do flip scum then that's just gravy as you've given info that hard clears Poseidon and A50. I'd also think it's very unlikely Egg is your buddy too.

[Wh4t]

Happy scum day Wh4t.

Thank you

[Wh4t]

Tor what do you think about Poseidon's reaction to being at L-1?

[Toranaga]

I got caught up in something but still around

wh4t: WRT poseidon's posting near hammer, it looks genuine. his posting otherwise has been pretty poor, he only showed up to defend himself and promised reads he never made. he is probably never town PR if he is town cause he just invited the lynch without claiming or softing anything as well. if you're legitimately townreading poseidon for that, you're disregarding two weeks of mafia playing to townread fakeable emotions someone is having near lynch. his activity is the most telling thing about his slot and it's wolfy. poseidon is definitely around lurking because he conveniently shows up when he is a wagon, and then he disappears again when heat gets off him. there's no interest in solving the game. he is voting your slot since inferno was playing and never reevaluated on it, which is pretty telling.

[Toranaga]

I just want to end the day now tbh. This game is frustrating. You would be the best info lynch though so sorry if you're town, I would've loved for us to own this game. Watching the people who resisted the Poseidon lynch and people give reasons for lynching you will be very telling in later days. If you do flip scum then that's just gravy as you've given info that hard clears Poseidon and A50. I'd also think it's very unlikely Egg is your buddy too.

that's fine.

[Toranaga]

AHHHHHH WHY DI I MINDMELD GAME SO MUCH!!!!


<also, tor, I’m sorry if I’m being a shit and you’ve already done this, but can you post a scum bracket or read brackets just so it can help see your thoughts if you are lynched and flip town>

I think I have yeah, but I can summarize for you the best way my memory serves me rn

wh4t is never scum and should never be re-evaluated. there's so much stuff clearing her. I think you should re-read inferno as well, and the way people started to pile on him d1, cause I'm pretty sure there's at least one if not both wolves there. the more inferno spoke about his VT read on bujaber, the more I realised it was actually a pretty strong towntell that he was doing it. read bujaber's case on why inferno's VT read makes him town. it's very strong and made me appreciate bujaber's posting in this game a whole lot. wh4t's emotions all feel genuine and she did two things wrt me this gameday that I hope are outside her scum range: unvoting me when A50 was ready to hammer me, and clear me because I called her play bad. second reason looks thin but there are levels of towny thinking/self awareness/evaluating my play that's hopefully not something wh4t can even think about saying as a wolf.

I tried my best to actually come across a townread of your early posting but I just didn't feel it. I don't think you'd ever fake a hammer on a towny as a wolf and then proceed to clear their reaction to it. it'd be an incredibly dumb, risky and unnecessary thing for you to do, as it removes a mislynch and isn't even read through as necessarily towny. afaict I'm the only one doing it. you're engaging and never came across as scummy to me so you're fine in my book.

I was sure bujaber was town after reading the thread but I forgot what parts of his posting I liked other than towncasing inferno when inferno was near lynched. not because he townread mislynch bait cause any wolf can do it for towncred, but the reasoning was spot on and resonated very strongly with me when he did it. I don't like that bujaber took so fucking long to write that post and defend inferno, and even when he did it felt half heartedly so, but it's nothing objective and just pingy feelings I had. his tunneling me throughout is annoying but bujaber literally just did the same thing in a game I was ridiculously obviously always town and he just rolled with scumreading me cause of my slot, so it wouldn't be the first time he did it.

I'm gonna roll with gamer almost never being scum with how much he wordbombed the thread. I don't townread anything he said, but I also didn't read everything he posted and that ridiculously long associative reads with inferno being scum and likely partners is ~never something scum writes. there's some actual great thread awareness in that posting and the w/w pairing thoughts made a lot of sense to me.

so scum is in not those. I don't have strong cases for anyone being scum, but inferno and A50's posting are the most alarming ones and I think fromage and egg have both been fine when they're here, just not posting enough to be higher townreads.

so yeah this is where I'm at. I tried my best, guys. I really did.

[Eragon]

Thank you Tor


Honestly I feel bad about lynching ou rn because i am pretty confident that you are town
Ima look stupid if you flip scum, but right now I would actually prefer someone else

[Toranaga]

Amished tell? See...Manatee and Tora's play have both been so scummy. I just can't get over that VT claim.

IDK what an amished tell is, but I'm assuming it refers to calling my slot's posting scummy. it was scummy posting though. it looked wonky and deserved death, not replace out.

how the fuck is claiming VT scummy though? you do understand the setup, right? I was trying to avoid saying this because it just gives scum the proper play here, but since I'm going down anyway: scum has to 100% always PR claim at L-1. if scum gets lynched d1 and didn't even out town PR while going down, the game is essentially over unless they get lucky with hitting PR with the NK. there will be so much information in the thread next gameday and possibly 3 lock clears on top of the NK. so no, you're wrong, my claim isn't scummy.

can you tell me why you thought it was scummy though? seems like a random thought to have.

[Egg]

The VT claim looked town to me.

[Poseidon]

I got caught up in something but still around

wh4t: WRT poseidon's posting near hammer, it looks genuine. his posting otherwise has been pretty poor, he only showed up to defend himself and promised reads he never made. he is probably never town PR if he is town cause he just invited the lynch without claiming or softing anything as well. if you're legitimately townreading poseidon for that, you're disregarding two weeks of mafia playing to townread fakeable emotions someone is having near lynch. his activity is the most telling thing about his slot and it's wolfy. poseidon is definitely around lurking because he conveniently shows up when he is a wagon, and then he disappears again when heat gets off him. there's no interest in solving the game. he is voting your slot since inferno was playing and never reevaluated on it, which is pretty telling.

I mean, I’m phoneposting unless it’s after 9pm (pacific time) and it’s a hassle to post from phone as we all know. But yeah totally call it convenient showing up. I’ve only been wagoned once now? Haven’t “disappeared” once the heat is off.

And now wh4t is just aiming at you for sake of ending d1 with no solid backing? If wh4t wasn’t scum, then why the hurry to get on a wagon? I realize I just complained about nothing happening; sue me. I’m not changing up my votes just to end the day.