Murder Riddle II (Solved!)

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Murder Riddle II (Solved!)

Post Post #0 (isolation #0) » Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:09 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

This is a sequel to Segaco's Murder Riddle. Thanks to him for providing the inspiration, the format, and the rules, which are apparently taken from Umineko no Naku Koro ni. (Though as Segaco mentioned, it's not necessary to know anything about this, as I myself do not.)

Just a note: I tried to make it of comparable quality but a bit tougher, and it ended up being significantly longer. I hope it doesn't drag on too long and you all enjoy it, though.

Rules

- All characters state things in
Purple Declaration
. All things said in Purple Declaration can be considered to be the truth with the exception of the fact that culprits may lie.
- Characters who are not culprits speak the truth and only the truth (**in purple**).
- There may be multiple culprits.
- A culprit is defined as someone who kills.
- A culprit may lie before murdering.
- A culprit cannot die, but they can fake death.
- All statements made in narration are true.
- Accomplices do not exist unless they murder, in which case they become culprits.
- Every room, aside from the bathrooms, is locked with an electric lock. These locks cannot be spoofed, hacked, or otherwise tampered with.
- Every person carries a key card, with the exception of Brian (who does not have an office) and Nettle (who is a visitor).
- The janitors and security guards' key cards can open every room. All other people's key cards can only open their own office.
- In addition, the president, VP, and top executives have access to the conference rooms.
- Rooms can be locked and unlocked from the outside with the key card.
- Rooms can be locked and unlocked from the inside without need of a key card.
- Every person initially starts with their own key card.
- Anyone may be a culprit.

People in this story:


1. Miles Hazard - President (Male)
2. Tony Burton - Vice President (Male)
3. Alder Hutch - Top Executive (Male)
4. Ruby Holland - Top Executive (Female)
5. Steve McCall - Executive (Male)
6. Ferris Beckett - Executive (Male)
7. Catherine Luda - Executive (Female)
8. Nik Werner - Executive (Male)
9. Menna Jones - Executive (Female)
10. Micah - Janitor (Female)
11. Tom - Janitor (Male)
12. Alpha - Head Security (Male)
13. Ren - Security (Female)
14. Brian Tooley - Secretary (Male)
15. Nettle Sands - Visitor (Male)


Map

Spoiler: I suck at art
Image


Story


The SkyTech Corporation. An extremely secretive, high-security company, headed by Miles Hazard, that works on many sensitive government projects. The setting is the top floor of their headquarters, housing the president, vice president, and several top executives. Usually, nobody without security clearance is allowed onto this floor. But on this day, Nettle Sands was invited up for a meeting with Ferris.

At precisely 10:30 AM, the elevator opened and Nettle stepped out. He spoke to Brian, the secretary, informing him of his meeting with Ferris. Brian called Ferris, to tell him that his visitor had arrived, but nobody picked up the phone. Finding this odd, Brian motioned for Nettle to follow him, and the two of them went to Ferris's office door. Brian knocked on it. Again, no answer. Concerned now, Brian called for the security guard Ren, who opened the door. The three of them beheld the bloody body of Ferris.

Brian and Nettle immediately cried out in alarm. Ren ran to the security room to call a lockdown of the floor; the other people on the floor began to filter out of their offices and gather around the scene.


Tom
: "Oh God... is he dead? What happened?"
Brian
: "
Nettle had a meeting with him, and he didn't pick up the phone, and the door was locked, and so I called for Ren to open it...
"
Alder
: "
Ferris is dead. He was stabbed to death.
"
Alpha
: "Where did Ren go?"
Nettle
: "She went to lock down the floor, I think."
Nik
: "Does anyone know anything?"
Tony
: "
I met with Ferris from 9:30 to 10:00. He was quite all right at that point. I know he didn't have any meetings afterward until his meeting with Nettle.
"
Steve
: "I know Ferris. He was always paranoid.
He'd never open the door for someone unless he had a meeting with them.
"
Catherine
: "I've been in my office, right across the hall from Ferris's.
I saw Tony leave Ferris's room at 10:00, and nobody entered between then and 10:25. Unfortunately, I had to use the bathroom then; that's where I was when I heard the cries.
"
Alpha
: "Leaving a five minute window. We need alibis. Where was everyone between 10:25 and 10:30?"
Micah
: "
I was with Tom cleaning Conference Room 1.
"
Brian
: "
I was at the front desk until Nettle arrived. Ren can confirm, she was there as well.
"
Ruby
: "
Tony, Nik, and I were in a meeting in Conference Room 2.
"
Alder
: "Alpha, you remember.
I was in the security room talking with you.
"
Steve
: "
I was working in my office.
"
Menna
: "
As was I.
"
Catherine
: "
As I already said, I was in the bathroom.
I think several people can attest that I did go there."
Brian
: "
I didn't see her go
, but I wasn't paying much attention."
Alpha
: "Those aren't very reassuring. Can any of you prove that?"
Steve
: "No, I'm sorry. But you can search me,
I swear I don't have a knife anywhere.
"
Menna
: "
Me neither!
"
Alpha
: "All right. Ren and I will search you two and your offices."
Nettle
: "Wait a minute. Miles, where were you?"
Miles
: "Are you doubting me?"
Nettle
: "I just want to make sure we've covered all our bases."
Miles
: "Well,
I was in my office, as well.
"
Tom
: "You don't have to worry, Nettle. I can vouch for Miles's character.
He would never kill anyone.
"

The security guards began to search the persons and offices of Steve and Menna. Some of the other people left. They were shaken, but it seemed as though the security guards had everything under control. That is, until a scream was heard. The source of the scream was quickly determined to be Tom, and as everyone rushed to him, they found him at the open janitor's closet, staring in horror.


Tom
: "Micah... how could this happen?
We went back to cleaning, and we were doing Conference Room 2. She ran back to get something, but she was gone so long I started to get worried. I came to check on her, and the door was locked, and when I unlocked it I found this... She's definitely dead; she was stabbed. Here key card was here on the floor beside her. I'll destroy it now so nobody can use it.
"
Brian
: "
Nik is in here too. Looks like he was also stabbed to death.
"
Menna
: "That's terrible..."
Ren
: "
Alpha and I searched Steve and Menna. Menna didn't have a knife.
"
Alpha
: "
Neither did Steve.
"
Miles
: "
Tony and I were with them the whole time, supervising.
"
Tony
: "
Indeed we were. Nik was with us too, but he went off toward the conference rooms. That was the last I saw of him.
"
Brian
: "
I was at the front desk for most of the time, but I had to use the bathroom as well.
Alder, Ruby, and Nettle were talking in the lobby pretty much the while time, as far as I know."
Alder
: "
We were discussing intently almost the entire time. We were trying to figure out a reason that somebody would do something like this. The discussion got very heated toward the end.
"
Nettle
: "Yes, it did. I'm surprised that those two didn't see it the way I did... maybe I know some things about Ferris that you people don't."
Ruby
: "
Actually, Alder stormed off near the end.
He was upset about something Nettle said."
Alder
: "He was accusing Miles of killing his own employee!"
Miles
: "What?"
Nettle
: "Listen, I don't know you, but I know more than a few things about what goes on in your department."
Alpha
: "Which way did Alder go?"
Alder
: "
I went up the east hallway, but I didn't have time to kill anyone. I saw Tom come around and open the door to the janitor's closet.
"
Tom
: "
I didn't see you at all.
I must have been too focused on making sure Micah was okay."
Tony
: "Brian, you went to the bathroom?
I didn't see you come through the west hallway.
"
Brian
: "
I went the long way.
I didn't want to interrupt the security guards' search."
Alpha
: "Catherine, where were you?"
Catherine
: "
...I was in the bathroom again.
"
Alpha
: "O- okay. Is it possible someone was hiding in here?" *gestures to the janitor's closet*
Tom
: "No,
there are no spaces here big enough for someone to hide.
"
Miles
: "That's it. We need to get to somewhere safe so we can figure this out. Let's go to a conference room."
Tom
: "Neither conference room is big enough to fit all twelve of us."
Miles
: "We'll split up, then. Tony, Ruby, Alder, Ren, Catherine, come with me to Conference Room 1."

Miles, Tony, Ruby, Alder, Ren, and Catherine went to Conference Room 1. Menna, Steve, Nettle, Brian, Alpha, and Tom went to Conference Room 2.


Ruby
: "Is there anything we can use to figure out who did this?"
Ren
: "There are security tapes. I should go check them."
Miles
: "I should see the tapes too. I'll come with you."

Miles and Ren left and headed toward the security room. Meanwhile, in the other conference room...


Menna
: "Where did Miles and Ren go?"
Alpha
: "Oh, they might have gone to look at the security tapes. That's a good idea."
Tom
: "There are security tapes?"
Alpha
: "
Only outside of Miles and Tony's offices.
But they might have seen someone go into the janitor's closet."
Nettle
: "We can't just sit here. We need to do something. I wonder if I can find any evidence in Ferris's office. I do know a fair amount about what he was doing."
Steve
: "Care to share it with the rest of us?"
Nettle
: "No."

Nettle moved toward the door, evidently unwilling to wait for anyone's approval.


Brian
: "Don't go alone. I'll come with you."

Nettle and Brian left together and headed toward Ferris's office. Some time passed. Neither of the parties returned, nor were any sounds heard.


Alpha
: "I'm getting nervous... I better go check on Nettle and Brian to make sure they're all right."

Before anyone can stop him, Alpha exited and walked toward the offices. Not ten seconds later, a loud sound was heard, and soon thereafter, another. Everyone rushed out of the conference rooms and begins to search. It didn't take long to find the bodies of Nettle and Brian in the hall.


Menna
: "No..."
Steve
: "What happened, Alpha?"
Alpha
: "
I didn't see. I was distracted... there were two sounds, and then I saw them both on the ground Nettle outside of Ferris's office, and Brian outside of Nik's office.
"
Tony
: "
Brian and Nettle are both dead, both from gunshots.
"
Alpha
: "
Gunshots? How? The only guns allowed up here were mine and Ren's, which are identical. And mine is right here...
"

Alder and Ruby entered from the north. Nobody had noticed they were missing.


Alder
: "We have some bad news...
I found Miles and Ren too in the security room, with the door open.
They look like they're dead, but I'm not sure.
The security tapes were all erased.
"
Ruby
: "We had a feeling that something was wrong there.
Alder found them, and he called me over. Ren's gun is gone, but her card was still there. I destroyed it.
"
Alder
: "
Miles still had his key card too. I didn't do anything with it yet.
"
Alpha
: "Ren's gun...
that must be how the gunshots happened.
"

Everyone followed Alder and Ruby to the security room, where they found the bodies of Miles and Ren.


Tom
: "
Miles is definitely dead, stabbed by the looks of it.
"
Catherine
: "
Ren was also stabbed to death.
"
Tony
: "
Miles's key card was still there as well. I destroyed it...
we can't have anyone getting into Miles's office."
Alpha
: "
Somebody must have that gun.
I need to search you all."

Alpha searched everyone else.


Alpha
: "
Nobody here has it... There's somebody else who's still alive, who only pretended to be dead.
I'm sure of it."
Steve
: "That's crazy. Pretended to be dead. That can't be true."
Alder
: "I believe him.
Alpha would never lie, and he would never say he was sure of something if it weren't true.
"
Catherine
: "So what do we do?"
Alpha
: "For now? We stay together. I don't want anyone out of my sight."
Menna
: "If someone is pretending to be dead, doesn't that mean they must have an accomplice? Someone alive who 'confirmed' that they were dead."
Ruby
: "That's a good point. So we have two potential killers on the loose."
Tom
: "And I have a feeling that they won't stop until everyone else is dead."
Alpha
: "Now at least we have some facts nailed down. Does anyone know anything about motive?"
Steve
: "Well, I know there's been some weird stuff going on here, but nothing worth killing over..."
Ruby
: "Are you sure? If anyone knows anything, we need to know now."
Tony
: "All right, I should probably say something.
Miles had some... extremely sensitive documents
, and it would be very bad if they fell into the wrong hands."
Alpha
: "How bad?"
Tony
: "It could cost thousands of lives."
Menna
: "Shit."
Tom
: "What do you people DO on this floor? This is darker than I imagined."
Ruby
: "Maybe Nettle was wiser than we thought... He told us this was something bigger. Not by Miles maybe, but somebody important must be behind this."
Alder
: "
Those documents are probably what the killers are after.
"
Tony
: "Tom, can you please let me into Miles's office to see if they're still there?"
Tom
: "I don't want anything to do with this, if I can help it."
Alpha
: "
Tom, do it. This is important.
"

Tom and Tony went to Miles's office, where the documents were kept. Tom unlocked the door and waited outside while Tony searched inside.


Tony
: "
The documents... they're gone.
"
Tom
: "Tony, how do we know you didn't just take them?"
Tony
: "You're welcome to search me."

Alpha quickly searched Tony.


Alpha
: "He's clean.
He doesn't have the documents.
"
Catherine
: "Who could possibly have taken them? Only Miles himself, the janitors, and the security guards could have gotten in there."
Tony
: "We need to go check their bodies. And be careful... don't go anywhere alone."
Tom
: "
I will go search Micah.
"
Catherine
: "
I'll come with you, then.
"

Tom and Catherine left to find Micah's body.


Tony
: "I don't trust anyone but Alpha here.
Alpha, come with me to search the bodies of Miles and Ren.
"

Tony and Alpha left to find Miles's and Ren's bodies. Alder, Steve, and Menna remained; nobody paid attention to where Ruby had gone. Suddenly, an extremely loud police siren echoed outside.


Steve
: "Why is that so loud?"
Menna
: "Hopefully they're coming to help us."
Alder
: *looks around* "Did you hear that?"
Menna
: "The siren?"
Alder
: "
No... I thought I heard a gunshot.
"
Steve
: "I couldn't hear anything over the noise."

Alder ran down the hallway. About fifteen seconds later, the siren stopped and Alder was heard yelling furiously. Everyone ran to where he is, finding him outside Ruby's office.


Alder
: "
I heard a shot, and the door is locked.
What happened in there?"

Alpha stepped forward and opened the door.


Alder
: "Ruby! No!
She's dead... shot to death. I was waiting with Steve and Menna, until I heard the shot.
"
Alpha
: "You heard a shot over that noise? Did anyone else hear it?"
Tony
: "Well, there definitely was a shot.
I can confirm that Ruby died of a gunshot wound.
"
Steve
: "
I couldn't hear anything over that siren.
"
Menna
: "
Neither could I.
Did anyone find the documents?"
Tom
: "
They weren't on Micah's body.
"
Tony
: "
Nor on Miles or Ren's. And then I searched Alpha, just to make sure; he didn't have them either.
"
Alder
: "
There's nobody hiding here, either.
I can't believe this... I need to be alone. I don't trust any of you."
Catherine
: "Are you sure that's safe?"
Alder
: "
I'm going to lock myself in Conference Room 2.
This mystery killer won't be able to get me there; only a few people have access to it."
Alder left and headed toward the conference rooms.
Alpha
: "This is enough. We need more help.
The stairs are still locked due to the lockdown, but with my security clearance I think I can override the elevator.
"

The rest of them went to the elevator room. Alpha tried to call the elevator, but it didn't come.


Alpha
: "What?"
Catherine
: "
The elevator is disabled! Somebody used the company software to disable it.
"
Menna
: "
Well, there are only computers at the desks.
But it seems like anyone with a computer could have done that."
Tony
: "
Only an executive would know how to do it.
"
Steve
: "We're trapped here?"
Tony
: "Only until the lockdown ends."
Menna
: "I feel bad for Alder, and I'm very sorry about Ruby-- I know they'd known each other for a long time. But we need to stay together. He's in danger."
Steve
: "Yeah. Let's go find him."

Steve and Menna started up the west hallway. As they reached the northwest corner, they began to scream, and several loud sounds were heard. By the time the others reached the southwest corner, Steve and Menna's bodies were on the ground. Steve was in the northwest corner, Menna right in front of Ferris's office.


Alpha
: "What just happened?"
Tom
: "Somebody shot them.
I definitely heard three shots.
Maybe the shooter missed?"
Alpha
: "I don't think so...
Menna was definitely shot to death.
"
Tony
: "
So was Steve.
"
Alpha
: Let's move their bodies out of the way. I don't want to have them here.

Together, they moved Steve and Menna's bodies down the hall to the front desk.


Tom
: "Where's Alder? Is he in one of the conference rooms?"
Catherine
: "What-?
I don't see Alder in either one.
"

Alpha unlocked both conference rooms.


Alpha
: "
He's not there.
Where did he go?"
Tony
: "Alpha is right.
I don't see him anywhere.
"

They frantically began to search for him. After a few minutes, Alpha called out.


Alpha
: "
I found him in Ferris's office, under the desk, with the door locked.
"

Tom and Tony came immediately.


Tony
: "Is he dead?"
Alder
: "
I'm not dead.
I'm sorry I hid, I just didn't feel safe there."
Alpha
: "How did you get in here?"
Alder
: "
When we first found Ferris... I swiped his key.
I thought I might be able to hide in his office if things ever got awful. What happened?"
Alpha
: "Menna and Steve are dead, because they went looking for you."
Alder
: "
I saw the whole thing. Menna's body fell right in front of the door.
"
Tony
: "Where's Catherine?"
Alder
: "Oh,
I saw her go into her office, a few minutes after the shooting.
"
Alpha
: "Did you see anyone else?"
Alder
: "
No.
"
Tom
: "How could you even see her office from under your desk?"
Alder
: "
I looked through the window at the base of the door.
"
Alpha
: "So you could only see her feet?"
Alder
: "I recognized her shoes.
It was definitely her.
"
Tony
: "She should still be in there then... Is the door locked?"
Alpha
: "
Yes, it is.
"

Alpha opened the door to Catherine's office. She was in there... but not how they expected.


Alder
: "No... how is this possible?
Catherine was stabbed to death.
"
Tom
: "
Her key card is still here.
How was the door locked?"
Tony
: "
There's no one hiding here, either.
"
Alpha
: "I think I know the answer to this. You three stay right here.
If I see anyone else, I will kill them, trust me. I'm faster on the trigger than anyone else here.
"
Tony
: "Still, be careful."
Alpha
: "I will.
I won't leave any doors unlocked behind me. And nobody's quick enough to get to me with a knife without me noticing
, so I should be safe."

Alpha left promptly, heading north towards the conference rooms.


Alder
: "I hope he's all right."
Tony
: "I'm sure he will be.
If he sees anyone, there's no way they'll harm him.
"
Tom
: "We shouldn't stand here; we should go somewhere more protected. What if the killer comes back?"
Tony
: "You're right, we should move. Where?"
Alder
: "Maybe the elevator room. There's only one way in, and we could try the elevator again."

The three of them went to the elevator room. Tom tried the elevator.


Tom
: "Nope,
it still doesn't work.
"

A loud sound was heard. The remaining three anxiously ran to the other side, and when they reached the door of Tony's office, they stared in horror at Alpha, slumped on the floor.


Tony
: "
The door's locked.
"

Tony pulled a card out of his pocket and fumbled, nearly dropping it.


Tom
: "Hurry up!"

Tony finally managed to open the door.


Alder
: "It's as we feared.
Alpha is dead. He was definitely shot. His key card is right here.
"
Tony
: "Check his gun, see if he shot back. He said this wouldn't happen..."
Tom
: "
It has all six bullets. He never even shot it.
"
Tony
: "Six bullets? Let me see."

Reluctantly, Tom handed the gun to Tony.


Tony
: "
Tom is right. Fully loaded.
"
Tom
: "Put the gun down. I don't think anyone should have it right now."
Tony
: "All right." *sets the gun down*
Alder
: "We need to solve this now. Can anyone think of anything that might help us?"
Tony
: "Hold that thought."

Tony went over to the door and locked it.


Tony
: "Let's talk about what happened..."

And with this, the story is paused.


-------------------
A few things to keep in mind:
Security reports from this day prove that the people listed are the only people who were present on this floor. In other words, there is no sixteenth person.
Also, it is impossible to remove or add ammo to a gun.


Now that you have finished the story, you can now start trying to solve it. There are three more things you need to know about theorizing before starting:
- To win the game you must pinpoint the culprit/s and how he/she/they did it. Basically, you have to post a full theory explaining how everything happened*.
- When stating a theory, it is mandatory for you to use
blue text (#00FFFF)
.
- After you make your theory, I will respond to it either with
red text
to disprove it (anything said in red can be considered to be the truth) or normal text just explaining why it's not correct.

*That said, there is definitely some room for interpretation allowed. As long as your explanation is reasonable and reasonably close to what I intended, you should be fine.

That's all you need to know.
Anyone can participate, so I hope you hop in and try to solve this!
Last edited by Something_Smart on Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #2 (isolation #1) » Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:04 am

Post by Something_Smart »

It was intended to be Brian confirming Nik's death.

Also, this follows Segaco's rule that
if the culprits ever outnumbered the innocents, they would immediately kill off the remaining innocents.
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Post Post #8 (isolation #2) » Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:11 am

Post by Something_Smart »

In post 5, 2 718281828459 wrote:(Man, those names are confusing... Tom and Tony... and Alpha and Alder... have to be the last four...)
My apologies, lol. I hadn't yet planned out who would live until the end when I named them :P
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Post Post #14 (isolation #3) » Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:32 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

There is a problem in 4-7: According to the narration, there was less than 10 seconds between Alpha leaving the conference room and Brian and Nettle's bodies being found. In order for him to do what you described, he would have had to walk the long way around to the security room, kill Miles and Ren, walk the long way back, and kill Nettle and Brian... in less than 10 seconds.

Also, there are some events that you suggested occurred but did not say WHEN they occurred (Alpha locking the door to the janitor's closet before Micah and Nik were discovered, Alpha taking the documents from Miles's office, and Alpha meeting up with Alder to give the gun and documents).
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Post Post #16 (isolation #4) » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:35 am

Post by Something_Smart »

When would Alder have had a chance to kill Miles and Ren? He was in the conference room until the bodies of Brian and Nettle were found.
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Post Post #18 (isolation #5) » Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:37 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

Alder and Ruby only entered from the north after the bodies of Nettle and Brian were discovered; everyone not mentioned as having left one of the conference rooms remained in there until the sounds were heard.
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Post Post #26 (isolation #6) » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:17 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

In post 24, inspiratieloos wrote:@SS you said that any statement in purple can be considered true. Does that mean it's objectively true or only that it is true as the character sees it?
If a character says something in purple, then either (a) that character is a culprit, or (b) that character honestly believes that statement to be true.
In any matter of observation, such as "this person is dead" or "I saw this", you can assume that the person will not be wrong if they honestly believe it.
In some cases, it's definitely not an observation, and I apologize for not making it clear :P If it's speculation, I probably shouldn't have put it in purple; but you shouldn't really draw any conclusions from it.
That said...
In post 25, 2 718281828459 wrote:If a statement is in purple, then its literal meaning is objectively true, UNLESS the character is a culprit, in which case it may or may not be false.

There are, however, some cases where a character says in purple that something "looks" a certain way (or similar). For the
Nik was in here too. Looks like he was stabbed to death.
, the mod confirmed that Brian was claiming Nik dead.
Not sure on the others. (Personally, I would have styled it as follows: "
Nik was in here too.
Looks like
he was stabbed to death.
")

I think there were only 2 or 3 of them, though.
@mod: How should I parse Alder's
Those documents are probably what the killers are after.
:
A. Alder claims the documents exist, and the killers are after them,
B. Alder claims that
if
the documents exist, then the killers are after them, or
C. Alder's claim is vague meaningless hogwash, or
D. something else?
Yeah, your stylization is probably more accurate.

As for the documents, the narration confirms they exist. ("
Tom and Tony went to Miles's office, where the documents were kept. Tom unlocked the door and waited outside while Tony searched inside.
") A and B are then same, and they are the correct interpretation.
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Post Post #28 (isolation #7) » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:43 am

Post by Something_Smart »

Oh, sorry :P

It sounds like you're suggesting that Catherine was killed by the third shot that was unaccounted for. But she was definitely alive after those shots were fired...
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Post Post #30 (isolation #8) » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:15 am

Post by Something_Smart »

I believe that theory is completely consistent. Nicely done. That means I need to hit you with some red text :P
It's possible to surreptitiously pass a key card, but not a gun. Alpha and Alder could not pass the gun back and forth without anyone noticing unless they were alone.
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Post Post #32 (isolation #9) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:54 am

Post by Something_Smart »

The "nobody had noticed they were missing" applies only to after Alpha left, the sounds were heard, and everyone ran out of the conference rooms. Before then, anyone not stated as having left the room was in it the whole time.
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Post Post #34 (isolation #10) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:55 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

In post 31, Segaco wrote:How about this:

For the third murders, Alder left the conference room with Ruby at one point. Ruby's purple of "Alder called me over" implies Ruby was not with him when he called her, so Alder just got into the security room and stabbed Ren and Miles to death. After this, he took Ren's gun, deleted the security footage and called Ruby over to the crime scene.

As this happened, for the fourth murders, Alpha got out of the conference room and quite simply shot both Brian and Nettle with his own gun. That done, he quickly threw his gun into Ruby's office.

After searching the others, Alpha lied about no one having Ren's gun, because his partner in crime had it.
Maybe just the way this is ordered. It implies that Ren and Miles died before Brian and Nettle did, but that wouldn't be possible with what I said.

Interpreted the other way, where Miles and Ren died sometime after Brian and Nettle did, you're right that I didn't disprove it.

In that case... I think you've earned a bigger revelation.

Alpha was truthful in saying his gun was identical to Ren's. (And there were no other guns on the floor.)


(Moderator note: In retrospect, it would have been better to sneak in a part where Ren said this. Didn't occur to me that the only evidence of it coming from Alpha himself made it unreliable :P )
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Post Post #36 (isolation #11) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:27 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

In post 35, 2 718281828459 wrote:
Segaco wrote:Finally, at the end, Alpha went over to Tony's office. There, he locked the room from the inside, shot his own gun to the ceiling and hid it in the room.
This isn't accounted for in your analysis.
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Post Post #38 (isolation #12) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:18 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

This is probably a good time to mention this, something which was touched on in the original with
William faking his death
(<- this spoils the solution to the first one if you care about this) but which I think it would do well to spell out explicitly. (And I did plan this from the beginning, but I wasn't going to say it until the topic was brought up.)

For the sake of this game, a loud sound is either a gunshot or a piece of furniture (such as a desk) falling over. Such a piece of furniture cannot be righted, and such a sound cannot be made otherwise. If anyone at any point saw a piece of furniture knocked over, I would have mentioned it. Assume that the characters can determine roughly but accurately where the sound came from.


That said, there's the easy response of "Alpha went to Miles's office next door and knocked over the desk", which I won't wait for you to suggest because it's so obvious. Instead, I believe it's time to tell you:

The sound heard after Tom tried the elevator was in fact a gunshot.
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Post Post #41 (isolation #13) » Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:42 am

Post by Something_Smart »

Without giving too much away, I see where the problem is. There's something that I think you wrote off as impossible that actually isn't. I'm happy to answer questions about what, for the purposes of this puzzle, can and cannot be done by the characters.

On that note,
it's not possible to remotely knock over furniture.
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Post Post #46 (isolation #14) » Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:22 am

Post by Something_Smart »

I see two flaws in 2 718's reasoning:
One, Tom used his key card to unlock Miles's office, and the narration states that he did in fact unlock the door. If he left his card in Ruby's room, he could not have done this.
And two, Tony and Alpha searched Miles's body for the documents, so Miles would need to pretend to be dead once again, and you didn't incorporate this into your theory.
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Post Post #48 (isolation #15) » Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:57 am

Post by Something_Smart »

Tony and Alpha didn't leave the security room until Alder called.


By the way, as a mod, I'm interested in your opinions. From the way the bit at the end of the OP (which I copied from Segaco) is written, it implies that the players will come up with perfectly logical and consistent theories and the mod will give them extra information until they have enough information to deduce the correct answer. This game is requiring significantly more of that than the first did, and I want to know if you guys think it's annoying that you keep coming up with theories that make perfect sense but are not the answer I intended.

If you do think it's annoying, I could try to provide a whole bunch of clarifications at once that would probably make the right answer immediately deducible-- but that would probably make it way easier.
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Post Post #50 (isolation #16) » Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:37 am

Post by Something_Smart »

In post 49, Segaco wrote:I like those mysteries that show all clues needed to solve it from the start. I tried doing that with the other game but failed miserably by putting up the outdated version which left some things open, which is why I accepted the first theory that got around all the narration and purples. But that's just my preference, I can go with anything
You can do whatever you want with your mystery, in the other site I'm in not showing all info from the get-go is a common thing so the mysteries are not solved right away
So you're fine :thumbsup:

Miles had prepared a fake corpse before-hand. He put it where he was supposed to be, dressed it as himself and everything else went on as I described in the other theory.
It wasn't exactly intentional; I had intended some things to be clarified only upon being asked, but others just slipped by me-- you outsmarted me :P

I do wish that there was more that I could point to and say, "This is what you missed", rather than having to tell you something that you didn't previously know, but I think that it would have to be insanely complicated for that to really work-- you guys are just too good otherwise. I think the format has a lot of potential though, especially if we play multiple of these and lay down some common rules for what is and isn't usually possible.

For instance...
No fake corpses :P That was definitely the real Miles they found, both times.
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Post Post #54 (isolation #17) » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:22 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

Catherine was with Tom at the time during the sirens when Alder reportedly heard a shot. If she had not been, she would have said so.
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Post Post #58 (isolation #18) » Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:24 am

Post by Something_Smart »

Theory is solid enough to require some red text, methinks.

Nobody ever hid in Tony's office.
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Post Post #60 (isolation #19) » Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:01 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

If the window of the door were broken, that's not a detail I would have left out :P
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Post Post #62 (isolation #20) » Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:32 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

I know I'm jumping around. But I'm pointing out one thing at a time :P

Tony couldn't have hid in Ferris's office and pretended to have just arrived there without anyone noticing.
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Post Post #65 (isolation #21) » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:01 am

Post by Something_Smart »

Sorry. Am busier now than when I started this.

I could probably give a better justification if I weren't on mobile, but for now I'll just say that
neither of the theories in post 63 are possible
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Post Post #67 (isolation #22) » Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:22 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

In post 66, Segaco wrote:Could you rephrase this with "no one could have hid in Ferris' office and pretended to have just arrived there without anyone noticing"? Or is that a no-no?
Yeah, that's equivalent to saying nobody can. Unless stated nobody has any capabilities or skills that other characters don't have.

I'd allow what happened with
Tech
and say that someone wounded can lock themselves in a room before dying, but it's not possible to be fatally wounded, go to a room, open the door, go inside, and close and lock the door.


In other words, what you have Catherine doing before she died is impossible.
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Post Post #70 (isolation #23) » Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:29 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

I would allow a modified version of that where he pushed her into her office and then stabbed her, but either way, Alder would have seen his feet.

(Ninja'd by Segaco but I'll still say it just to confirm.)
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Post Post #72 (isolation #24) » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:59 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

The alternative is close enough to count, and with that... you have solved it!

Now time to finish the story...

Tony clicked the lock of the door firmly shut, a sly smile on his face. They would have nowhere to run when his accomplice got there. But when he turned around, the smile vanished as he found himself staring down the barrel of the same gun he had held in his hands not a minute ago.

Holding the gun... was Alder.


Tony
: "Whoa, what are you doing?"
Alder
: "Just checking something."
Tony
: "I didn't kill anyone! Put that thing down!"
Alder
: "Of course, in a moment. If you didn't do anything, you should have no trouble answering a question for me."
Tony
: "Sure, anything!"
Alder
: "Show me your keycard."

Tony froze.


Tony
: "M- my keycard? Uhh... why do you ask?"
Tom
: "Alder, where are you going with this? I'm getting nervous."
Alder
: "Bear with me for a moment. I think I know what happened. Now, Tony, the keycard?"
Tony
: I... um..."
Alder
: "Now, come on, you had it just now when you unlocked the door! Where is it?"
Tony
: "Well.. right here. But..."

Tony hesitantly produced a card, which Alder instantly snatched from his hand and inspected. After looking at it for a moment, he crushed it with his fist and let it drop to the floor.

Then he fired two shots right into Tony's skull. Tony's body dropped lifelessly to the ground.


Tom
: "Alder! What the hell are you doing?"

Alder did not answer, instead gesturing to the crushed remains of the keycard. As Tom picked up the shards, his eyes widened with realization. The card belonged not to Tony... but to Ruby.


Alder
: "You bastard. You killed my friend. You killed nearly everyone. Why would you do this?"
Tom
: "Wait, but he didn't kill most of them, he was with us the whole-- oh!"

The two of them turned together to look at the door, which had just been opened by none other than Brian. Seeing Tony's body on the floor and Alder holding the gun, he began to run, but Alder was too fast for him. Two more shots and he too was dead.


Alder
: "And, just as I expected... the documents. Maybe we should... hang onto these. For safekeeping."
Tom
: "Like I said, I still don't want to be involved."
Alder
: "You're a good man, Tom. I'm sorry I ever doubted you."

With that, Alder slipped the documents in his jacket pocket and walked away to greet the police who were finally beginning to rush onto the floor.


Alder
: "Oh, do I have a story to tell you guys."

Spoiler: The Full Solution
Tony, fed up with all the awful things that Miles was doing-- and making him do-- had decided to take action to bring down the department once and for all. He quickly found an accomplice in Brian, the secretary who was constantly being bossed around and made to answer for all of Miles's shady business.

At 9:30, Tony met with Ferris. Sometime during this meeting, he used a concealed knife to kill Ferris. He left the room, leaving the door unlocked. When Brian reached the door with Nettle, he pretended the door was locked and called for Ruby. I didn't even think of this at the time I made the puzzle, but Segaco was right. Ren wasn't there to here Brian say the door was locked and so she never corrected him.

While Ruby, Alder, and Nettle were talking, Brian went along the east hallway towards the bathroom. Seeing Nik there, he told Nik to come with him. When he neared the janitor's closet, he saw Micah and then killed Nik and Micah with a concealed knife and put them in the closet, which Micah had just opened. He then took Nik and Micah's key cards, locked the door, slid Micah's card under the door, and ran down the west hallway towards the front desk. Since Ruby, Alder, and Nettle were so deep in discussion, they did not notice any of this.

When Brian and Nettle went to search Ferris's office, Brian killed Nettle with his knife. Brian then went, via the south hallway, to the security room, which was left open. He stabbed Ren and Miles from behind, then took Ren's gun. Then, Brian went to his desk and used his computer to disable the elevator. Tony, of course, lied when he said that only executives could do it. Brian planted Nettle's body outside of Ferris's office, then shot once and knocked over Nik's desk (using Nik's card to enter his office) to create the second loud sound and faked his own death outside of it. Nobody ever checked inside Nik's office, or they would have noticed the desk and gotten suspicious.

This, incidentally, is the solution to the seven-shot problem. (Though clearly not the only plausible one, as there were many theories here I did not anticipate :P )

When everyone arrived at the scene, Tony lied about three things: Brian being dead, Nettle dying to a gunshot, and Miles's key card being destroyed. When Tony went to search for the documents, he lied about them being gone and instead left them there.

Brian found Ruby alone and shot her, then quickly took her key card and locked her in her room, then hid in the men's bathroom. As Menna and Steve went to search for Alder, Brian came out of the bathroom and shot Steve. Menna ran down the hallway, and Brian fired twice at her, missing the first time but hitting her the second time. Menna's body fell right in front of Ferris's door where Alder was hiding, which is why he did not see Brian enter Catherine's office. (Since this part was definitely ambiguous I'll call the final theory close enough to count.) There was a brief period of time between Menna's death and when her body was moved where Alder saw nothing simply because she was blocking his view. During this time, Brian entered Catherine's unlocked office and hid there.

When Catherine entered later, Brian stabbed her, locked the door, and continued to hide. He left Ruby's key card somewhere in Catherine's office. Obviously, Tony lied about there not being anyone hiding there. Tony also picked up Ruby's key card and left Miles's and his own key cards in there for Brian to use.

When Alpha went off alone, he believed that the killer's gun was empty, having apparently heard six shots. When the three of them left the hallway outside of Catherine's office to go to the elevator room, Brian took Tony's key card to Tony's office and entered it, shooting and killing Alpha, who was in the midst of finding incriminating evidence in Tony's office. Alpha had his back to the door, which he had locked. He had not expected the killer to have more ammunition or to be able to get into the room, so he was caught off guard.

Then Brian left, leaving the door unlocked, and headed to Miles's office, which he unlocked with Miles's card, to take the documents. When Tony arrived, he lied about the door being locked, then pulled out Ruby's key card and pretended to unlock it. He locked the door at the end to stall for time until Brian could arrive with the documents and finish the others off.
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Post Post #73 (isolation #25) » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:04 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

Full retrospective will come later but feedback is certainly appreciated. I definitely think I did some things well and some things not as well.

I did enjoy being the moderator as I had to decide what information to give you guys that would force you to come up with a different theory but that wouldn't give too much away... but I can see how you might not have appreciated constantly having correct theories and constantly having them disproven. If any of you are inspired to run another one, I would totally take part in it. I still very much enjoy the concept.
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Post Post #77 (isolation #26) » Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:16 am

Post by Something_Smart »

In post 75, 2 718281828459 wrote:1. Why is it that everyone died the first time but there were 2 survivors here?
I wasn't a huge fan of the "everyone died" ending either :P Doesn't matter at all to the puzzle, and I do like the idea that the innocent characters are solving the puzzle along with the players of the game, and so they figure it out when the players do...
2. Is this story based on anything in particular? What were "the documents"?
Nope, and there was really no backstory. I ran this game for the puzzle part, not so much for the flavor; I'm definitely a function over form person (read any of my modded games and prepare to cringe). The documents were purely a plot device, I had no idea what they were-- although it wouldn't have been hard to come up with something a corrupt executive was covering up, that wasn't really the point of the puzzle :P
3. How did you go about creating this? I would probably fail miserably, which is why I decided instead to do my puzzle based on just liars and truth-tellers instead of a story.
I did it all in one weekend, with no internet access no less, so let's see how well I can recall.

I was brainstorming possible flavors that wouldn't have been a copy of Segaco's, not that that would have been bad (and Segaco's flavor is the most cliche murder-mystery story imaginable anyway :P ) but I just wanted something different. I came up with this one, and started planning out the characters and the setting.

After I had determined all the characters and the map, I rolled dice to choose the murderers. (Can't say it was REALLY random since I would have rerolled if I hadn't liked it, but I did like the scumteam, if you will, so I kept it.)

Then I just came up with plot devices. Pretty soon through the story I had decided both who would survive to the end and who their likely partners would be-- hence why I was completely unsurprised that you tried Alpha/Alder and Tom/Miles before getting the right answer-- and I geared a lot of the situations around making those teams all seem fairly possible. I erred on the side of making them seem TOO possible, which is why I had to clarify so much in red. I do think it was better, because otherwise it probably would have been a little discussion, and then the right answer as the only logical conclusion.

I borrowed and modified some plot devices-- the question of ammo in the guns, tracking who has what keys to what rooms, hiding, the loud sound from knocking over furniture, and sliding the key under the door (which was brought up in the first puzzle but ruled to be impossible) -- and I invented some of my own-- the documents, the window at the bottom of the door, the elevator, and the sirens (needless to say, these are all dumb flavor-wise but they make the puzzle more interesting :P ).

Then I just read over it and tried to see where the evidence to disprove the incorrect teams would be. For Alpha/Alder I had intended the guns to be the issue but I got outsmarted by not realizing that Alpha could have lied about his gun's size and switched with Ren, and for Tom/Miles I think Ruby's and Catherine's deaths were both difficult to explain.

If you do want to try your hand at something like this, I'd say at least make a rough draft and see how it comes out. It's fine if the flavor is cringey, it's fine if there's initially not enough information or you didn't think of everything (God knows I didn't)... really the only important thing is that you don't contradict yourself or accidentally rule out the correct answer. Given how much you seem to enjoy logic puzzles, I'd suggest you give it a shot :]
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