Mini 2025: Sneks & Noodles [Game Over]

[skitter30]

hi!!!

VOTE: implosion

@anonymous ghost:

i'm always v/la on fridays and saturdays

-

Noted! Thank you!

Ghost

[skitter30]

gut town on vizzy and nsg

[skitter30]

i think the daystart pm links to the mod's iso, specifically to the initial vc

[skitter30]

uh i'm not sure how well i can answer that question atm ...

but i think as scum he tends to not want to engage, or only engage about inane things and not-game-related things (yes i'm aware that he's only talking about the daystart thing but it's page 2 rvs)

kinda like the relaxed-mylo thing sorta?

like he's around and not forcing content

like it's still a gut read now but he feels kinda town

[skitter30]

^^^ vizzy

idk why for nsg. really gut for right now. i'm not super good at reading her or anything (honestly will prob end up sheeping rc tbh) but i think she doesn't like scum as much and doesn't really engage as much and she just felt very ... relaxed page1 is maybe a good word? or nonchalant? or not-putting-on-a-facade? idk how to explain much better right now

also i tend to read her wrong so like this isn't like a read i'm putting super much stock into atm

[skitter30]

i always have to wonder how i ended up as someone that people seem to always say they can't read. if anything, i would imagine it would be the exact opposite.

cuz i think i've read you correctly like ... twice out of like 6? times

and one of those times u were on an alt and didn't know it was you

and i usually just try to outsource the read if i can because i'm bad at it

[skitter30]

I don't have any completed games with vizzy to link to but I know of them and have read games of theirs and get what skitter is getting at

I personally think it's townie to pick up on what skitter picked up and point it out

when vizzy could maybe possibly be considered lynchbait

this pings me the wrong way. i think because it kinda indicates that ur looking at the game rn on some level as gauging how lynchable people are

also idk if this is something to give me townpoints for tbh

==

After years of personally knowing wgeurts you can never assume he's trustworthy when it comes to anything mindgamey and as such I mustVOTE: Wgeurts

why belated rvs?

on the same person u already made an rvs vote on, when there's content in the game at this point?

[skitter30]

guys how have we not lynched nsg yet when she's confirmed scum?

Because I cant tell if ur serious or if ur meming

[skitter30]

Sounds good

[skitter30]

i mean he could be active on site and in speakeasy without ever playing mafia (the one game on this account was a newbie game in like 2015)

i find it weirder that he's pulling the newbie card to explain his second rvs vote tbh

[skitter30]

How so I clearly stated I am and you have no reason not to believe me. Or do I come over as untrustworthy?

who is this directed at?

--

Skitter is being really strange and it might be because she's scum

do tell

[skitter30]

And that's AI because ...?

I mean if you want me to turn on 'sounding like an SAT prep class' mode I can but I find that tends to make people less likely to read what I say, and people tend to gloss over my posts as is so I try to make my posts as readable as possible

The 'u' thing is a product of occasionally phone posting

[skitter30]

Upon receiving petitions to become more loquacious, I have decided to saturate my posting with words of an esoteric and abstruse nature

Seriously tho I think that makes it harder for people to understand what I'm trying to get across in a general sense

Again explain why that's ai because I think its asinine to link my word/typing choice to potential reasons to scumread me

--
@implosion: why has rando practically scumclaimed?

[skitter30]

Just pick any one of his posts and read it. It should be self-evident.

VOTE: wgeurts

i can't tell if this is a serious read or not

i'm guessing not given that you voted wgeurts after saying this?

==

wgurts: Alchemist21, LazyLump, BlueBloodedToffee, popopopopopopo, implosion (L-2)

this wagon is kinda meh

and probably on town given that it reached fake-l-1 page5 with no resistance or cw or anything

@popo: did you want wguerts to be at L-1?

i think that fake-hammer comes from town more often than not; i dont' really see scum faking a vote like that. like there's no town motivation, sure - but i don't think there's any scum motivation either

it's too ... brazen almost to come from scum and i don't think that scum!vizzy plays like that tbh

==

i think i want to go here for now

VOTE: skygazer

[skitter30]

it doesn't really do much when ur already voting me

why are you scumreading me?

and don't give me the 'you're using the letter 'u' instead of the word 'you' ' thing you have me earlier because i'm pretty sure we both know that's an asinine reason to scumread me

[skitter30]

i mean ok?

i can't really talk to u about it if you wont' explain why tho

overall i don't care that much rn cuz i know that town!you can read me properly so i'm sure you'll figure it out eventually. and the more i think about it i think scum!you scurmeads me here given the newbie

[skitter30]

comprised of rvs votes + naked vote from a guy who's only post is that naked vote + someone who wagoned him for the sake of being wagoned + your vote which is just kinda there and i don't know why you voted him

also on a guy who hasn't posted since rvs who i dont' really think is scummy rn

also no cw or resistance

basically the votes aren't that good and i don't scumread the person it's on and the gamestate is loosely pointing to town!wgeurts

also i want to hear more about popo's vote since he announced l-1 (without unvoting or anything) whicih indicates to me he was kinda worried about the wagon getting too high but his vote was literally for the sake of the wagon happening so announcing l1 felt kinda off to me

p-edit:

cuz i don't think you're particularly scummy right now

she tends to feel more engaged in my (admittedly limited) experience - everythign she's posted is just kinda ... banal (like asking why she was townread). those sorts of posts make me feel like she's looking for somethign to post about

and i dislike that she ignored 58

[skitter30]

skygazer town.

y tho

i actually somehow managed to miss this. I think 51 is town; the logic for townreading skitter looks somewhat genuine/unlikely to be faked. I really don't buy the logic about skygazer was thinking about what people are relatively lynchable -> skygazer is scum.

Actually yeah.

Unvote

VOTE: skitter

like i say i think vizzy is possibly town and her response is basically - it's townie she's townreading someone who could be lynchbait - which pings me because that makes me think she's viewing vizzy as potential lynchbait

like she's giving me townpoints for calling lynchbait gut-town on page2 - her response to what i did feels stronger than it ought to be almost; i don't think that's something to really townread me for because if i were scum and wanted to pivot onto vizzy it would be the easiest thing in the world to drop my page2 gut townread given his playstyle

like i kinda got the vibe that she was giving townpoints because she as scum would not want to townread him because his playstyle makes him imminently lynchable

idk i'm having trouble articulating what pinged me there

I think 58 jumps to a conclusion that I'm gauging vizzy's lynchability for scummy reasons. It's true that I'm examining vizzy's lynchability but it's because I think he'd be an easy target for scum to jump on D1. The fact that 1) we had similar thought processes that resulted in townreads on vizzy and 2) you had a well reasoned townread on a player that would be easy for scum to jump on was enough for me to give you town points.

this coupled with how she's been defending vizzy throughout is making me rethink the read tho
==

this. not sure how well your meta argument works here when we haven't completed a game together. I think my engagement has been on par with what I usually do

yes i agree i don't have super much experience with you

i guess i was surprised that you ignored someone finding something you did scummy and that the only thing you had to say after that was to ask why you were being townread when there was def content at that point. it just feels like lazy posting to me

like it's not exactly less engagement than i'd expect but more like when you're posting you weren't really posting substantial things, if that makes sense

==

also i want to hear more about popo's vote since he announced l-1 (without unvoting or anything) whicih indicates to me he was kinda worried about the wagon getting too high but his vote was literally for the sake of the wagon happening so announcing l1 felt kinda off to me

i do enjoy an early day 1 wagon

ok were you trying to get anything out of the wagon? did the wagon tell you anything useful about the game and/or players?

why wasn't vizzy's 'vote' bad play?

==

also i'm kinda tending town on horrordude i think

[skitter30]

ok were you trying to get anything out of the wagon? did the wagon tell you anything useful about the game and/or players?

why wasn't vizzy's 'vote' bad play?

yes, it got us this horrordude/invisibility interaction.

it was a joke. im done talking about this zzz

if you're referring to vizzy's vote i think it's probably one of the most interesting parts of the game thus far (that and the wgeurts' wagon) and i think it (and player's reactions to it) are worth looking into so i'm not sure why you're 'zzzzz'ing it

===

it looks like no one else wanted to go with his reason for scumreading me but he was still trying to shade my slot

so i don't particularly agree with this understanding of the situation - you seem to think that after people weren't hopping onto the 'bad l1 / fake-vote' reasoning they went back to look for something else to scumread for, namely that you haven't had any real content.

but they had that read earlier in 122 so i think they're just reinforcing the notion that even if the vote isn't scummy from you they has other reasons to not like your slot

i don't think that's a scummy trajectory. i don't think their read on you is very strong or convincing either, but i don't have a problem with their thought process.

i also don't think that 146 really has phrases that are 'strongly emotional'

basically i don't really understand this scumread of them tbh and dont' particularly like the resulting wagon

==

Have a few townleans in vizzy/implo/skitter/alchemist/maybe wgurts based on the lack of a cw but it's bugging me that skitter's last post at me was basically just the same points reiterated

i mean implosion asked me to elaborate

and then you told me that your engagement was at a normal level from you and i was clarifying what i didn't like about it (specifically not the *amount/level* of engagement but the *content* of engagement)

why is that bugging you?

also what are your thoughts on horror?

[skitter30]

northsidegal

has been prodded. She has 24 hours to be post game advancing content or be replaced. ((expired on 2018-08-11 03:44:17))

@rc: is this scum-indicative for nsg?

i kinda feel like she's less invested in scumgames but mathdino told me that her activity isn't ai so i'm not sure if this is a thing or not

==

ok so imo there are 3 major slots in the game so far. horrordude, invisibility, skitter. the question is, are scum in those 3 trying to take over the game or are they taking a backseat in the hope that these players cannibalize and lynch each other?

this is actually a pretty icky post - you pose a very general question but fail to give an answer or explain how to go about answering

and it's a very generic thought (i could literally say that about *any* game, replacing in relevant names of course)

also while vizzy is trying to push horror but horror is explicitly not wanting a wagon on vizzy and i'm pushing neither so idk how accurate of a description of the gamestate 'cannibalize and lynch each other' is

do you dispute the observations in the post?

the main observatin is that me/horror/vizzy are the most active players

i don't dispute it but you didn't give any sort of useful conclusion from that observation so idk why you're pointing it out here

like it's an inane thing to talk about that isn't useful or game-advancing or anything and it kinda makes me wonder if you're lurker scum taking a backseat in the hope that players will cannibalize each other

==

ok so i can get how people might've considered that post from rando as busy but like 190 actually makes me feel better about it
out of anything i feel like it reaffirms my vote on horrordude
192 looks like an attempt to belittle rando's logic
btw i was thinking that popopopopopoiopopopopop[popopopopopopopopopopopopo disliking rando's post suggests that if he flips scum one of his partners is in horrordude, me, and skitter

vizzy, i'm pretty sure that putting out content is a towntell for you but i disagree with most of the positions you've taken thus far (and don't really understand them either), which is worrying me

like why is 190 a good post? why is 192 an attempt to belittle rando's logic

also why did horror's latest post make you switch your vote off of them?

[skitter30]

i forgot and i was scumreading horror at the time so it kinda made sense in that mindset and 196 seemed pretty legit
also i should have probably stopped scumreading horror earlier its a pretty bad read
w/e we did get a lot of content out of horror because of it
also its a townlean not a full a town btw btw tbw tbwtbwtbw

you literally said in 193 that horror's reaction to random reaffirmed your vote on him so i don't know how you suddenly forgot you were scumreading him? i don't understand your timeline

i don't really understand why you should have stopepd scumreading him earlier if his earlier posts made you want to vote him more

==

i mean ok?

i can't really talk to u about it if you wont' explain why tho

overall i don't care that much rn cuz i know that town!you can read me properly so i'm sure you'll figure it out eventually. and the more i think about it i think scum!you scurmeads me here given the newbie

You claim that scum me scumreads you given the newbie

In said newbie I locked you town so why is that the case?

because you know that i'm going to compare whatever you do here to what you did there (just like you were able to play on me comparing how you treated gemini to how you treated me in that micro last year to get me to mislynch her)

so i think that if you're scum you'd try to approach me differently rather than similarly

Of course, if you were scum and concerned that I had caught you and wanted to plan ahead and make an excuse for why me with a perfect record reading you would be calling you scum, saying that it's something that I'd do as scum makes a lot of sense.

no, just explaining why i don't really care how you read me tbh. if you're town you'll figure it out and if you're scum you'll probably keep this up, idk. i'm very confident that i can deal with you incorrectly scumreading me so like ... i don't really give a fuck tbh

and i like getting pressured as town because i know very very very well that i'm obvtown as fuck when i get wagoned and when i'm under pressure

and the quicker that happens the quicker i won't have to deal with inane pushes like this

Like in the early game I called you null and conceded to mathdino under pressure that me not having a read on you made you +equity scum, I never hard scumread or pushed you so I'm having some difficulties understanding that town thought process whereas that's exactly the kind of scum reaction I'd expect.

because i think you think i'll be looking for similarities so if you're scum i think you'll approach me differently here

==

Read all about it in my new book

ALONZO- My life as NotMafias hype man

do you independantly scumread nm's slot or are you voting him because he's notmafia (ie on policy)?

do you have any thoughts on the game besides voting notmafia?

==

alchemist is townie

==

oh boy this'll be fun

wrt rc's wall

Spoiler:

This is a relatively minor point but I have so, so many times seen scum use this excuse when they're playing differently than their norm.
In my recent experience with Skitter up to / including the newbie game she has played exactly like I've always seen her and I've always been super quick to read her as town.
Using the 'I am changing my playstyle' card is super common from scum playing different and it belies a self awareness about the whole playstyle that isn't usually there as town
people play the way they do as town because it's how they play, most people don't consciously change that and I don't really buy skitter feeling the need to change her playstyle here.
Particularly when she would be trusting me to take her input seriously and read her correctly, if I were town.

a) you're going to have to explain how the 'u' thing is remotely ai when it started a few weeks ago in another game that i was town in (which ended on friday that i couldn't reference before). like you're going to have to explain how a trend that started several weeks ago has anything to do with my alignment in this game

what i'm stuck on with u is that i don't think scum literally asks to be hammered to end the game here

bleh maybe i should read ur scumgame

b) also you're conflating 'changing writing style' with 'changing playstyle' which i think is incredibly disingenuous, because you're saying that it's scummy for me to use the 'changing playstyle' line, which i have not done, and i challenge you to show me where i've done that. i will conede that i've (slightly) changed my writing style, but i fail to understand why you think i feel self-conscious about doing so, or how 'changing a writing style several weeks ago' is remotely ai in this game

c) i don't particularly trust you to take my input seriously as town tbh; i've only played with you as tvt once and you lurked through most of that game while you were alive and i don't recall you interacting with my opinions that much tbh

-> i'm pretty sure 92 by implosion was sarcastic and wasn't a real read

Again, another thing that doesn't really make sense coming from town.
And again it's not the argument itself that's wrong, I fundamentally do agree with both positions, it's how they both talk about it that to me suggests that they're scum.
Even just the ellipses and the whole structure of how the point is made, but I also want to add in all the weasel wording wrt 'i dont think', 'dont really see', 'brazen almost', 'dont think', 'tbh'.
I don't think that this is how either of them justify this read if they had them as town.

hi, have we played before? that's my writing style. i write in terms of 'feels' and 'don't really see' and 'almost' and 'i think' and 'tbh' and ellipses

especially when i'm still working out how to articulate what i'm seeing

and now i'm going to give some examples to demosntrate that this is my writing style because this happens nearly every single game and people find how i write confusing or soemthing, idk

because that's just how i write. it doesn't mean i'm non-commital or i'm hedging. it just means i write that way. 'feel' is how i describe gut, because i'm not always good at articulating what i'm seeing immediately so i try to explain why it bothers me, and forcing myself to use words instead of leaving it as 'gut' helps me articulate it; that's where phrases like 'brazen almost' come from - i'm tryng to find the best words to articulate what i'm seeing. 'i don't think' is how i indicate that i disagree with someone's opinion. 'tbh' is just a writing quirk that people mock me for (agian, it shows up all over the newbie)

and scumreading me for a writing style that you're familiar with is, again, incredibly disingenuous and makes me think that you're looking for reasons to scumread me. you're going to have to explain why this is scummy if that's how i explain what i'm thinking in towngames

hi, examples from the newbie:

I think that math's playing differently this game than I'm used to. He feels a lot more ... toned down I guess is a good way to describe it.

I'm not sure if that's AI here though

ellipses, 'feels', 'i think', 'i'm not sure'

RC maybe town. the 2.7 slot is my main scumread. I haven't really liked any incarnation of that slot tbh. AA9 is pinging me cuz she's commenting on like every other post but her thoughts are kinda banal

'maybe', 'i haven't really liked', 'kinda'

from the towngame that just ended on friday:

So the reason why I asked about your invisibility read is because 414 almost sounds like ... you're narrating a dispute between shoshin and momrangal and that you're like ... waiting for them to decide what their reads are and I'm wondering if you, like, are trying to form your own read or if you're just going to be listening to one of {shoshin/mom}, and if you're planning on doing the latter, how you're going to decide which one is correct.

Also I wouldn't really describe mom's recent posting about invisibility as a 'bang'.

ellipses, 'like', 'wouldn't really'

Huh, I didn't even know that was a thing tbh. I think it's entirely possible she didn't realize that was a thing either; idk if that's AI

'didn't even know', ' i think it's entirely possible', 'idk if that's ai'

I'm tending towards thinking it might be the duck.

Don't have enough from NSG to read her and I think stun is more likely than not town.

'tending towards thinking', 'more likely than not'

It does as I said make sense coming from scum who is afraid that I'm gonna full on deathtunnel her (hint: I am) and needs to in advance justify it as a scummy move to try to get me lynched instead.

have fun with the deathtunnel!

(And this is SUPER indicative) 'cuz I dont think you are particularly scummy right now' WHY IS THAT EVEN IN QUESTION. WHY IS SKITTER IMPLICITLY ASSUMING THAT SHE HAS TO JUSTIFY NOT VOTING IMPLO.
NEVER HAS SHE INDICATED ANY SORT OF SCUMREAD OR ANYTHING. But as scum who knows that they're scum, yes it might seem to you like you have to justify not voting your scumpartner.
The most that she had said was that she 'didnt know why he was voting him' (which is again a very SvS way for that interaction to go down because you allow your partner to explain themselves then change your mind.)

because he was my rvs vote and other people were scummier so i didn't want to keep my vote there

i don't really scumread him. i don't really townread him. he just is.

4) Wgeurts read is really just blah and I expect better from Skitter.

why, pray tell, is the wgeurts reaad 'really just blah'?

And this response to Implo is, frankly, garbage.
On top of the fact that generally overly questioning townreads on you is usually the realm of scum.
Skygazer's read is fundamentally reasonable and she even acknowledges that it generally makes sense, she just jumps because it seems stronger but like why is that what skitter does
It's just bad. But even worse?

again, why, pray tell, is this just garbage?

i think the read was stronger than it should have been page2, yes.

and i question bad townreads on me, yes.

'but like why is that what skitter does' - why is not?

also i don't think i've done scummy things (and the best you can give me for that stage of the game when you initially called me scum is literally changing my writing stye, which again, i think is asinine and not ai in the least). like i don't really know why else you're scumreading me here besides for that and reads that are 'blah' but i don't know why (nor do i know why that is scummy) and a shit-ton of bad pre-flips that i know to be untrue

like your case is more built on me/implosion being scum together than how what i've done is actually scummy

aside if implosion ever flips scum you are an incredibly viable partner, especially that you're going after him first

==

You're welcome to after reading my post just naked vote the person that I voted because they're always flipping scum.

what happens when i dont'?

[skitter30]

yeah so that's why i think you're a viable partner if implo is scum btw

because you're setting up these associatives now

i don't think he's scummy right now, so i'm not voting him (and if he ever does flip scum i know exactly how you're going to use that but you're not going to be bullying me into voting people i don't scumread)

like i said above i still don't know why you think i'm scummy (especially indpendant of implosion)

[skitter30]

yeah, no, you aren't bullying or manipulating me into voting people i don't scumread to prove i'm not his partner or whatever line you're going to use

and have fun trying!

(and yes, i'm seeing parallels to what you did with walkor and math in the newbie)

[skitter30]

wrt to me i think, yes

[skitter30]

/shrug

it's day1 and relatively early in the game

i'm not voting someone i don't scurmead to make you happy right now

i don't townread you and i don't scumread him so idk why you think i'd do that

[skitter30]

i'm just calling out what i think you're going to do if implosion flips scum now because i think the way you're treating this is setting me up as a mislynch if implosion is scum with you

not voting someone i dont' scumread right now != trying to prevent a scumlynch

don't try to equate the two; that's disingenuous of you

idk why you thinks scum!me wouldn't bus scum!implosion; your read earlier was the other way around, that he wouldn't want to bus me

[skitter30]

again, i'm not voting someone i don't scumread right now, especially not when you're actively pressuring/bullying me into it on the threat of you tying him to me if he flips scum

[skitter30]

i mean you're in a situation where I've called you scum together and pointed out how your associatives are god awful and even without me tomorrowthere's almost no chance of you individually reaching endgame
if you see bussing as a dead end since you're going to end up dying to my d1 case anyway, you're better off trying to discredit me, get a lynch elsewhere, and hope that you can get a nightkill on me and have people forget I exist.

for you to pretend it's implausible of me to take the line of thinking that I have is completely disingenuous.

i know i'm town tho, so i know that your associative-based case is asinine-trumped up-bullshit. i think that you're making mountains out of molehills and i think that you're trying to get exacerbate the associatives you've drawn out earlier right now by trying to coerce me into voting him, so i'm calling it out

i would absolutely bus if i thought it was advantageous to me, and if i were scum with him i'd probably hop on for the towncred right now and let him try to get him to get you off of his case later

p-edit: i don't think he's scum; i don't look for partners day1 preflip on someone i'm not scumreading; that's a stupid waste of my time

[skitter30]

sounds good!

[skitter30]

probably not tbh

i don't really sheep people in general unless i have strong reason to think that the other person is capable of reading someone better than me, like a history of correctly reading someone. otherwise i see little reason to trust them over my own read

like i'd sheep you on nsg maybe

or mathdino on nsg or on notmafia

those are probably the main cases i'd sheep someone

[skitter30]

like no offense but idk why your read on implosion (or really anyone else) is more likely to be correct than mine

[skitter30]

anything further I want to say to everything that you just said which I horrendously disagree with can wiat until I know whether or not you're just sayign that because scum.

so like you can be very confident that you're right but unless you have a proven history of being accurate on something like this i don't really see a reason to trust your read over my own

viewtopic.php?p=10275613#p10275613

for reference, said while i was town

[skitter30]

Wanna destroy something beautiful? Vote sky gazer

yes can we pressure her more please?

==

If you're reading 92 as not tongue-in-cheek then idk. Because I think it's pretty damn clearly tongue-in-cheek.

yes, i agree that's it's pretty obviously tongue-in-cheek and i think it's disingenuous of him to push otherwise

I wasn't interested in getting momentum; I was interested in seeing how skitter would react to the vote. She doesn't seem like a player where momentum on her will be especially effective, and I didn't feel good enough about the read to actually push it.

ftr i disagree with this assessment; i tend to behave in very ai ways when i'm wagoned ime; i tend to be very obvtown when i get wagoned as town and i tend to panic-lurk as scum

The answer does require outside understanding, actually. It requires knowledge of my past experience with her; I played one game with her where I was scum and she was town, and she was very widely viewed as obvtown and I remember giving a genuine strong townread on her there. Her play here hasn't seemed transparently town in the same way I remember it being in that game ~a couple years ago, but only that one thing has stuck out as scummy. Hence a focus on sorting her, because I feel like she's supposed to be easy to sort. I remember her saying she's easy to sort then too. I can explain why her explanation made sense to me. It was weird, but it made a lot of sense.

last november/december actually

i'm not always like transparently, universally read as obvtown on page 5; give me till like ~mid day2 and if i'm not by then you can be worried

yes, can you explain why my explanation made sense to you?

the things that you're saying make sense to me and i find myself agreeing with you but i'm kinda wary at using that as a metric by which to townread you given that game; like you can make sense while not being town and it took me like three dayphases to figure that out.

like you make a lot of sense here but i don't know if you've actually posted anything much ai

==

can people explain the townreads on sky? i kinda feel like she isn't really engaging with people - like i post things directed at her and she's not really responding to them. like she's around in-thread and is posting but i don't understand her thought process whatsoever and her votes don't really make sense to me. like she had implosion as a townread earlier so idk why she's just sheeping rc without engaging implosion at all. i don't understand her horror vote either; i feel like she's just sheeping whenever new wagons pop up and i don't understand why

also i think i might be retracting my vizzy townread; the things he's saying sound good individually but don't make sense holistically and i disagree with most of the positions that he's taken (and don't even understand a lot of them) which is not a good sign because i'm finding that i can't follow his read progressions

==

@rc i asked you this earlier but is nsg flaking scum - indicative for her?

[skitter30]

ah ok i didn't realize she site-flaked entirely again then

i'm thinking of the last jungle republic where she was scum and she posted a lot when she first repped in and her posting just kinda petered out over time till she eventually got nk'd by the other faction; i think she posted a total of like twice that dayphase

[skitter30]

but if she site-flaked entirely than that isn't a thing here

[skitter30]

also i didn't realize but we only have another 3.5 days

this feels like a very lethargic day1

[skitter30]

also i don't really understand the not-mafia wagon - is it just a residual rvs wagon on wgeurts that never got disbanded since half the people on it are lurkers?

implosion what do you think about the not-mafia/wgeurts wagon?

[skitter30]

mod can you freeze the deadline until >Half of this game gets replaced with people who want to play the game?

i would appreciate if it could be frozen until we at least get the latest replacement (for lazylump maybe? i don't remember)

[skitter30]

i still don't know if i'm scumreading him but i feel like i don't have enough reads for the amount of time that has gone past

like half the game is ~null rn to me i think

and given how often these people post i don't know if that will change

[skitter30]

I'm not really strictly a fan of the wagon itself for a couple reasons

(people on it,

the composition of my own wagon).

yeah i was wondering if this was bothering you since the list of people you listed as not townreading overlaps quite a bit with the people you're voting with

[skitter30]

I'm not really strictly a fan of the wagon itself for a couple reasons

(people on it,

the composition of my own wagon).

yeah i was wondering if this was bothering you since the list of people you listed as not townreading overlaps quite a bit with the people you're voting with

he's scum and voting the place that's most likely to result in a non-him lynch before deadline.

yeah that's what i'm trying to figure out

i don't like it when people vote with their scumreads

i don't know if the lazylump/bbt/alonzo votes are meaningful though gien that the first two are rvs-votes by lurkers/flakers and alonzo's vote i think is policy

[skitter30]

VOTE: skygazer

ok what don't you like about sky?

[skitter30]

It's the third paragraph here. It's obviously convoluted but it seems more plausible as a genuine scumhunting thought process to me than the description you'd given before (which you basically rephrase exactly in the first paragraph here) and I can see it being phrased that way at first before getting clarified.

yeah it sometimes takes me a couple of tries to figure out how to articualte what i'm seeing, sorry

wasn't trying to be convoluted or repeat myself

[skitter30]

hey remember this?

whoever rolled scum this game had a field day with mathdino and myself around

I'm really paranoid that you're telling me what I want to hear tbh

you did it when I was going on about the 2.7/math associatves too

[skitter30]

implo is being very reasonable but that doesn't make him town.

like you can make sense while not being town and it took me like three dayphases to figure that out.

like you make a lot of sense here but i don't know if you've actually posted anything much ai

i'm very very aware that you have a tendency to reinforce my own opinions in order to get what you want

[skitter30]

or

stop trying to manipulate me into doing what you want

i told you after the newbie that i at least learned what you used to get me to do what you wanted and that i'm aware of it now

[skitter30]

(i mean i was aware of it then but i brushed it off but i'm not going to do that again given how that game worked out)

[skitter30]

implo is being very reasonable but that doesn't make him town.

like you can make sense while not being town and it took me like three dayphases to figure that out.

like you make a lot of sense here but i don't know if you've actually posted anything much ai

i'm very very aware that you have a tendency to reinforce my own opinions in order to get what you want

I have a scumread

you're pointing out that they're being scummy

i'm like yeah you're right they're being scummy

this quote wasn't me pointing out that he's being scummy

it's me noting that reasonable != town

that's not the same as reasonable == scummy so idk why you're pushing this as both of us catching on to implosion being scummy for the same thing

this isn't me noting that he's being scummy; it's me noting that most of what he's said isn't ai

[skitter30]

I'm going to corral your vote because it's how the game is played.

and i'm going to resist because i'm literally that stubborn and i don't like being corraled and the more you try the more i'm not going to do it just for the point of it *especially* since you're using tactics right now that i've seen you use on me when you were scum

also the way your'e interacting with me right now you're treating me like i'm town btw

like this isn't how you try to get someone to bus their partner

[skitter30]

yeah that's what i'm trying to figure out

i don't like it when people vote with their scumreads

i don't know if the lazylump/bbt/alonzo votes are meaningful though gien that the first two are rvs-votes by lurkers/flakers and alonzo's vote i think is policy

I haven't really been actually paying attention to the game until today and didn't realize the wagon had so many people in my PoE.

I really feel like I shouldn't have to explain this vote.

3/5 of the people in my PoE right now aren't even pretending to contribute to the game. And it's not like it's strong PoE yet. If there's support for a popo wagon I'd happily do that.

also i'm getting distracted but this post is pinging me

this is a note for a little bit later to try to figure out why; i think it's the bolded

also idk if you're still around but can you talk about sky more?

[skitter30]

eh I wasn't even referring to that.

I don't trust people to just follow the order and I'm scared you'll start thinking for yourselves at some point and just not lynch implosion or not lynch brian because they're writing semi-reasonable words.

wait i initially glossed over that and thought this was a quote from earlier this game

and then i realized where this is actually from so hmmmm maybe you weren't just quoting me

the timing of your 'implosion sounding reasonable as scum' thing makes me nervous though given what you did in that newbie

[skitter30]

aside i think that scum!implosion townreads me most of the time here

i'm wondering if scum!sky does and i'm not sure

[skitter30]

I don't think you're scum anymore though

I was a little reluctant to point that out in case it made it harder to lynch implosion.

also when did this happen?

[skitter30]

i mean

i had it open in another tab because I was reading that game trying to get ideas about how to lock this lynch in

you will notice the response was instantaneous because of that and that was in fact what I was thinking of when I responded

That said: so what if I was quoting you? So what if I was trying to convince you that someone I think is scum is scum? What does this magical town me that you're differentiating me from do differently?

yeah the instantaneous thing with a quote means that maybe it's a thought you arrived at independently; not sure

idk in the newbie several times when i was on the wrong track (i can think of at least three times off hand) you immediately reinforced my opinion by voicing something very similar to what i said, which made me feel like i was getting somewhere since other people were thinking the same way as me

i don't know what town!you does; i only played tvt with you once and you like lurked through most of the game while you were alive (mkultra)

[skitter30]

like basically i'm worried that you're seeing me doubt implosion so you're reinforcing the things i doubt in order to get me to vote there

and i know that this is a tactic you used successfully on me as scum so i'm very wary that something similar seemed to happen here

[skitter30]

oh i don't care about the lurking, my pont is that i haven't seen you maniplate me into trying to vote with you when you were town so i don't know if this is how town!you interacts with me

like you're trying to argue that town!you would try to manipulate me because mafia etc etc etc and i'm saying that i don't have any experience to back that up so idk why i should trust you saying that here

[skitter30]

cuz i think you're being manipulative about it

and i don't like it

and you did this exact thing as scum before

it could be nai, sure, but i dont have a way of knowing that right now, but i definitely know you did htis as scum, and i don't know if you'd do this as town

like if you want me to vote with you, manipulating me the same way you did when we were svt is not the way to get me to trust you

[skitter30]

/shrug

i don't like being manipulated and i know how you do it to me

and i'm telling you that if you try to corral me to vote with you that way i literally won't on the principle of i don't want my votes to be manipulated like that

like if you want my vote don't be sneaky about it; i really, really don't like that

you might find some other way to manipulate me that i haven't cottened onto yet but this i'm aware of now and i don't like it

[skitter30]

i'm not telling you not to play against your wincon if you're town

i'm telling you not to be manipulative when you want me to vote with you

those aren't the same thing

[skitter30]

if you want to sort me, looking into the 'what' of my gameplay is worthless. instead look into the 'why' of my gameplay. My process of persuading people to vote people is pretty indistinguishable, but my motivations aren't.

Either there's two conclusions to draw here

1) My push on Mathdino is utterly indistinguishable from my push on Implosion here in which case I'm literally impossible to read and the best play is to treat me like I'm town (the by the numbers play)
or
2) My push on Mathdino is somehow distinguishable from my push on Implosion and by seeing that difference you can read me here and in future games.

oh i missed this post

i'm not talking about your push on math

i'm talking about things like: i said 'i think scum is in the lurkers, maybe aa9' and you respond with something like 'yeah in this sort of gamestate lurkers is exactly where scum is' (this was wrong)

or i say 'i think 2.7numbers is a viable math partner because xyz' and you follow up with 'yeah i often find x to be a major associative and math/2.7 look like partners because of that' (i don't remember what x is and obviously i'm paraphrasing)

or i say 'i think implosion says a lot of reasonable things but i don't know if that's ai' and you follow with 'implo is being very reasonable but that doesn't make him town'

^^^^

this i dont' like

this is what you used to lead me on the wrong track in the newbie

and the implosion thing looks very similar to me

this makes me feel like you're reinforcing what i'm thinking in order to get your way

and i think this is sneaky and soemthing you have definately used as scum

[skitter30]

gonna go ahead and answer for implo

'I was just wagoning it to see how she reacted and confirm/deny my read'

which is in actuality

'I was just wagoning it in the hopes that it would do something scummy and get lots of momentum and I could have a justified read transition'

i kinda want implosion to give his own answer tbh

rc what do you think about sky?

[skitter30]

If anyone had useful input to give I'd follow it. I looked over Skygazer like 5 times because it was your read and I never got past null.

sorry i hadn't read this post yet

idk she feels kinda scummy to me

like the way she's interacting with the thread feels wrong

[skitter30]

I would need more from her to townread her but I'm fine with the fact that she's voting implo at least.

she was townreading him earlier and she sheeped you on him without interacting wtih him in any way, which doesn't feel right to me

also you know that like half your implosion case was based on 'bad' associatives with me ... if you're now townreading me how does that affect your read on him?

[skitter30]

like a lot of her votes are on wagons that are happening and she's just sheeping but isn't like interacting with the person in any way

[skitter30]

Am I interacting with implosion in any way besides the bare minimum of courtesy though?

Should she -not- be sheeping me?

she also sheeped the icky horror wagon, as far as i can tell just for the sake of having a wagon

she hadn't actually interacted with horror anywhere

nor has she interacted with implosion anywhere

like i don't understand how her reads/thought processes make sense with her votes

[skitter30]

not really? i don't think my sky and implosion reads are much connected with each other. like the fact that the wagon is on implosion isn't that important here beyond for the fact that she said she was townreading him earlier

like by itself sheeping someone who made a big case isn't necessarily scummy but like it's a pattern now and it's bothering me

[skitter30]

ok i'm going to bounce cuz it's late here but we can continue tomorrow or something

have a great night!

[skitter30]

VOTE: extend deadline

==

also @rc: like you want me to meta-dive you and see if this is something town!you would do - the thing is that i'm sure i can find examples of you doing this as town, but that doesn't really help me - you tend to interact with different people differently; like the way you approach me is not, say, the same way as you approach mathdino; like i think you change how you interact with the thread and specific people depending on their playstyles and alignments and who else is in the game in order to get what you want. like you interacted with gemini the way you did in that newbie in that way so as to get me to suspect her - if i wasn't in that game you might have approached her differently.

so if i find an example of you doing that as town that doesn't mean much to me because i don't know if that's how you'd interact with *me* as tvt even if you've done something like that at some point as town before

it could well be that town!you uses the same tactics to get your lynches through as you do as scum. the thing is that i don't have have experience with that, but i *do* know that's what you do as scum

which makes me reluctant to just brush this off as nai because i know that this is how you interact with me as svt and i don't have a way of verifying either way right now if you'd do that as tvt too; like you're going to tell me right now that you're town but obviously that doesn't really help me for this game

==

also i think the implosion wagon is kinda meh

rc - idk, described at great length why idk

sky - think she's scummy; don't like her vote

vizzy - could be town but i'm having second thoughts; also he did it for the sake of having a wagon

alchemist - tending town

bbt - idk; hasn't posted enough; could be he's busy irl; could be he sees something easy to sheep; i don't have a way to figure it out with what he's posted thus far really; i will say that the one and only game i played with him like a year ago he decided to be a troll who posted infrequently before i think he eventually got replaced like mid-day2 (he was town)

like i feel like this wagon was built because rc is ramming it down people's throats and not necessarily because people independantly think he's scummy

[skitter30]

like i feel like this wagon was built because rc is ramming it down people's throats and not necessarily because people independantly think he's scummy

i'm completely fine with this

given how poor the town winrate is on this site right now if people independently thought he was scummy that would if anything indicate he is town.

i don't really like icky wagons tho

i agree with popo that i'd hop on to prevent a no-lynch but like i don't think implosion is my biggest scumread right now or anything; i don't feel like i've finished sorting him

==

also hi laserguy!

[skitter30]

i kinda like laserguy's catchup, but i'm wondering how much of that is influenced by the fact that he's calling me obvtown and his observations are matching my own

==

@laserguy: can you talk a little bit more about your rc + horror + random reads when you have a chance?

[skitter30]

if it isn't obvious, i don't think town!rc is obvious rn

that doesn't necessarily mean i think you're scummy so much as you're doing some things i've seen scum!you do and a lot fo the rest of what you're doing i don't think is ai

[skitter30]

So do you propose a counter wagon then skitter?

If your not sure about RC...

i wouldn't particularly mind an rc wagon

i just dont' know if it'll make him behave in ai ways - or, more accurately, in ai ways that i can read

but if people want to do that i don't mind trying

[skitter30]

i don't really like anything implosion posted on this page tbh; i'll vote there at deadline to prevent a pl

like in 505 you kinda lampshade that you're doing exactly what rc said you were going to do

i also don't really like the appeals to self-meta

also i don't know why popo is his bggiest scumread, or if he's legimately scumreading the other people in that group or if he's just putting them there cuz they're lurkers; in which case idk why they're put in the bottom tier

i don't know what 512 means or what he's trying to say

==

i think laser is like obvtown

==

@implo voting for a counterwagon isnt inherently noteworthy but it is when you came in townreading that person before hand

the vote has a potential to be motivated by opportunism

Have a few townleans in vizzy/implo/skitter/alchemist/maybe wgurts based on the lack of a cw but it's bugging me that skitter's last post at me was basically just the same points reiterated

oh hey a reasonable case
VOTE: implo
willin to /sheep/ for now

nm is town it even says it in his name

==

i still don't really townread rc but i'll drop it for now

==

311-333ish - Not really getting a lot of this without seeing the history of these skitter/RC. Still leaning Town on both.

if anybody cares the newbie i keep referencing is newbie 1872

==

@ag:

i've been voting skygazer since 127 but i dont' see myself voting in this vc

looking back i wasn't in the last vc either

-

Noted. Thanks for telling me

.

Please check 525 for more information.

[skitter30]

oh whoops

in that case

VOTE: skygazer

i didn't realize voting to extend the deadline would be instead of my regular vote

[skitter30]

implosion, is it accuarate to say that you like playing town more than you like playing scum?

also do you tend to engage more or less as scum?

i remember meta-diving you back for that other game and i had you as pretty solidly scum on meta (but i think i never bothered to bring that up cuz i got dstracted by the 1v1 and i never ended talking about it)

i think i'd have to do the meta-dive again though because i don't remember the salient points beyond thinking that you tend to be a lot less engaged as scum

[skitter30]

also how do you think scum!you interacts with town!me?

[skitter30]

that was @implosion

[skitter30]

I actually am scumreading popo more than anyone else at this point. I'll see if I can explain tonight.

also can you clarify - are you scumreading the other people in that lowest tier too on play?

[skitter30]

implosion, is it accuarate to say that you like playing town more than you like playing scum?

also do you tend to engage more or less as scum?

i remember meta-diving you back for that other game and i had you as pretty solidly scum on meta (but i think i never bothered to bring that up cuz i got dstracted by the 1v1 and i never ended talking about it)

i think i'd have to do the meta-dive again though because i don't remember the salient points beyond thinking that you tend to be a lot less engaged as scum

also you were very much around day1 but i think you had trouble efforting/engaging over a longer time span so like as the game went on you were less and less active and less and less of a major poster

like i'm saying that i think scum!you can/does engage day1 but that you might not sustain that long-term

[skitter30]

i mean he hasn't posted since the last time u posted so idk why you think anything has changed

also are u pushing him on policy or because you scumread his slot?

[skitter30]

404 - RC changing read on skitter is surprising. Making a note to come back to this section later.

eh i wasn't that surprised - that real-time convo i had with rc is pretty much out of my scumrange (imo at least) and he can read me pretty well - like i said when he first scumread me i know he knows how to read me so i didn't really care much because he'd figure out he was wrong at some point

==

451 - Alonzo tunnel on NM still kind of bothers me for lack of substance. NM is due for prod/replace I think anyway.

i agree; he's making his entire game about pressuring a slot that clearly isn't here and won't/isn't responding to it and i still can't tell if he's scumreading nm or if it's policy even though i asked like three different times now

i tend to think that people *seriously* pushing policy on nm is kinda scummy - it's an easy way to score a mislynch

like i low-key think that he ought to be policied/vigged/copped at some point before lylo like every game to ensure that his slot isn't in question in lylo because i find him super hard to read on play. but i don't think we ought to push a pl day1 as being optimal when there's legimatley scummy people about that we need to take care of

==

i kinda like implosion's popo case tbh

i really want sky > implosion

[skitter30]

I think thats a little bit unfair

Its more like:

I dont scumread him as strongly as you do + i like some of his posting (like his last post notes that alonzo was townier which is basically exactly what i was thinking about his last few posts) + i scumread other people more + a lot of people are saying they want to vote him which makes things feel complacent and makes me worried + i dont like being manipulated

Its not so much that i refuse to go along with any of your reads because im paranoid you might be scum so much as i feel like youre trying to manipulate me and i dont like it, which isnt exactly the same thing

Like i dont want to vote somewhere cuz i got corraled into it; i want to be able to reach my own conclusions

Also i said id vote him at deadline if necessary even though it isnt my optimal lynch

[skitter30]

Im about to be driving so i cant really have a convo right now but tldr it isnt a you-specific thing; im just contrary and i wont do it on principle

viewtopic.php?p=10207872#p10207872

I was the leading wagon and i literally wouldnt vote for my own cw because people were coercing me into it

Like i dont think i said or implied anywhere that this is you-specific and if i gave off that impression that isnt what i meant

Like it isnt a paranoia thing; its a 'i dont like being corraled' thing. And im really not trying to make things unpleasant for you; im trying to explain why i dont want to vote that way, no matter whos pushing it

I gotta go but ill be around later

[skitter30]

Hi I'm here

Strugglin w RL stuff rn

Will vote before deadline and try to get my head back into mafia tonight

I hope thinga get better for you soon

[skitter30]

here's a question: why are so many people townreading alchemist?

he had a few good posts earlier like early in the day but the less he posts the more that read kinda drops

he's like ~nulltown maybe; not a read i'm super happy with though

==

nice try implosion, but i am town

also this is kinda a meh response to that case against you that i think had some salient points

[skitter30]

The end of this wagon is kinda gross; popo hammer is kinda bad

Rc can you stop taking potshots at me?

[skitter30]

Wait why are we hammering without a claim?

Implosion had a post earlier today that im pretty sure doesnt come from wagoned!town!pr

[skitter30]

Bleh i cant even verify that it seems

[skitter30]

@vizzy:

i explained why i voted the way i did - i know exactly what the optics are and i don't particularly care.

if you have a problem with what i did, explain what you don't like and we can talk about it

==

VOTE: skygazer

==

also that flip very very strongly points to town!rc imo; i kinda doubt that bbt was scum's nk last night and i think that he guards rc after yesterday

[skitter30]

i find her vote on implosion questionable, as was implosion's vote on her; neither of them actually scumread the other; sky voted because 'yeah sure' when rc was pushing it and found reasons to scumread him *after*, when the wagon was a thing and that was like her *only* scumread and she voted him when townreading him because of rc; she left the wagon by voting 'extend deadline' and said she gave intent but that was about 12 hours before deadline and it was inevtiable at that point

implosion's only voted because i asked him to despite townreading her and tried to start a thing elsewhere and ended up re-joining half-heartedly when the popo thing didn't start up

i don't see either of their votes or their associatives as being clearing

i still don't like like anything she's posted

the wagon faced quite a lot of resistance yesterday *despite* scum voting there

==

also rereading 569 i think the end of that post kinda townspews rc too

[skitter30]

do you have any completed scumgames? i just looked but i can't find any , but it is entirely possible i missed one

i don't think either of you had like realistic/organic progressions on the other

i don't think you have realistic/organic progressions on anyone.

also i think the eod push on popo kinda spews him town tbh

[skitter30]

ah, i missed that one, but it doesn't help super much - you didn't have a scumpartner :p

i will try to metadive your towngames over the next couple of days

[skitter30]

That was my first thought on seeing that flip as well.

ya same

i don't think i can comfortably townread rc on *his* play right now but i'm comfortable calling him town for other factors - namely implosion's associatives with him and the bbt bg flip

why do you think popopo is a bus and sky is the cw? i'm tending more towards the other way around

also i said htis before but i think laser is hilariously obvtown

==

VOTE: SKITTER

#560 was it, the agenda filled one... I wanna find out more about this agenda...

ok, what agenda do you think i was pushing wiht that post?

==

vizzy what are your thoughts on me?

and can you elaborate more on your popo vote

i don't really like your interaction with popopo here on your end

==

@rc: can you explain your thoughts on popo please?

i liked some of alchemists *very* early posts (like just around rvs-ish) but most of his posts since then are kinda nai and i don't really have any thoughts on them

like i don't townread him and i don't scumread him; he just kinda is

==

like obvtown may be a bit of a hyperbole but there are posts like this that seem more likely to come from town than scum imo and he also has lower scum equity for being on implo unless it was a bus

none of this means anything

==

There have been a lot of lurkers in the game but popo's lurked at the most convenient times for scum to be lurking, when the game just started to develop a lot of heavy back-and-forth in the past few days.

I'd prefer N_M to this if a wagon were to swing there, but it's becoming an increasingly okay lynch as she, like popo, is lurking through one of the most critical times of the game. Alch also loses town points for this. There are a lot of slots that were active a while ago that have just stopped doing anything, and that's really fucking troubling and I really feel like it should make sense with a stagnating wagon on town. Almost certainly, some of the people who are slowing down their impact on the game are scum who are satisfied with the state of the game. None of those three have given any relevant stances or arguments at all recently. They've just commented on irrelevant things like Alch talking about his RC read.

aside these two posts from implosion make me think that scum is probably *not* in the lurkers, but rather in the active posters, especially since he emphasized it twice

unless literally his entire scumteam is lurkers and he's exasperated that he's the main person posting and he was going down

either one of those scenarios is likely i think

p-edit: i shall check that link

[skitter30]

lol

sorry, newbie, etc etc etc

i'm putting you in the townpile, just not on your play

[skitter30]

right, 212 is one of the posts from alchemist that i liked

==

so in conclusion he's kinda townie but also pretty scummy and is definitely not the saint people are making him out to be

vizzy i dislike that you fail to come to a conclusion either way

==

still kinda think that horrordude is town; i like his response to alchemist's vote on him; also 693 exhibits a certain degree of self-righteousness that alchemist is accusing him that i think probably comes from town

==

hey skitter asked me some questions thats pretty cool
so basically you were townie D1 associatives made you get knocked down but like i dont think its damning evidence anymore just makes you look bad

idk i feel like if you're concerned with my associatives with implosion you should have voted me; instead you kinda shaded me at daystart without actually doing anything about it

actually wait i have a question @skitter why does popo dislikership point to me not looking as good?

i think he had some valid points (especially 651) and i dislike 657 as a response to that

==

@ skitter

I get that you wanna do things your own way, but by the time you make a post like ~560, you've basically become the salmon swimming upstream have you not?

i thought he looked townier under pressure towards the end of the day, so i said so

==

Yeah, I sort of have a similar vibe on him. I liked most of his posts up to 212 or so, and his vote is well-positioned. Not much in the latter half of D1. Doesn't really interact with implosion either way. I'd probably put him at maybe Town lean except for that ping I have on 364 which bumps him down a bit. I don't really get this wagon.

what do you think about 160? it kinda feels like svs to me a bit, from the 'yeah exactly'

==

Spoiler:

Ok gang. Mrs Alonzo is in the hospital RN bringing forth Spawn of Alonzo. Not sure how this is going to effect things gamewise, but your patience is appreciated.

Alonzo

oh wow congrats!!!!

[skitter30]

the latter half of page 28 actually removed my will to live

anway uhh alch is probs town or scum trying to pocket me but i dont really get why he would bother in this situation?

tbh that's what i was thinking wrt his defense of you; i don't think the two of you are svs

==

kinda think popo is town although i don't really agree with much of what he's saying

==

I like this case.

U dont think it could be coached??

not really, why do you think it seems like he was coached?

==

(RC, skitter, maybe horrordude) that are likely to be super busy behind the scenes in their scumplay

(ftr i agree with this assessment, although i would maybe add alch)

==

I like that popo is actually trying to advance the game here. I get the impression a lot of people are just sitting around waiting for RC to tell us who the next lynch is going to be.

this gamestate feels very apathetic and i still don't have solid reads on like most of the playerlist which is worrying me because we already have a scumflip

==

Well I can’t answer any of those.

I’ve known you for years and still don’t know why you think forms of diction are scumtells. Maybe it’s just your sense of humor and I’ve missed the joke every time but either way I don’t get it.

what do you think about sky?

==

I mean, like I said obvtown-alch is a bit hyperbolic but I'm still not seeing anything that points to scum-alch

i don't like how you call alch obvtown on the same tier as rc and then walk back the alch read when pressured

it doesn't feel like a read you have conviction in, which is weird after calling him obvtown

[skitter30]

can we wagon sky now?

[skitter30]

that's a really, really, really superficial reason to townread someone and doesn't take into account her play

if we're going to cite gamestate reasons to read her - i tried to push her wagon all day yesterday, but it faced a lot of resistance even when scum was on it

also i can point to games where more than one eod wagon was on scum (american presidents mafia day2 iirc and brass's open 721 day1)

also i think the two of you have partner-like associatives btw

[skitter30]

can we wagon sky now?

like is there anyone townreading her on play?

[skitter30]

the more you vaguely shade me instead of engaging with my points makes me think i'm right

[skitter30]

i odn't feel like you've been engaging with what i've been saying

can you talk more about this:

i don't like how you call alch obvtown on the same tier as rc and then walk back the alch read when pressured

it doesn't feel like a read you have conviction in, which is weird after calling him obvtown

in a general sense i dont' really feel like i have a good sense for where you stand or what your reads are or who you want lynched today and i'm finding it troubling that you walk back a strong read when you're questioned on it

[skitter30]

I mean, I remembered Alch being on implo, remembered some of the townier posts he had made, and that I was townreading him already. My townreads can be *really* off the mark sometimes so I've been second guessing myself lately and that might also be playin a part in why I'm not willing to commit. Also I feel like some of his posts about me feel kinda,, pockety maybe? I never should've called him obvtown but I rlly don't think he's the scummiest person here or even scummy at all so I'm tryin to get into RC's head and understand.

You have to realize, I don't just randomly back off reads as scum, I'm much more self-conscious about what I'm posting, maintaining consistency, etc etc. I'm much more prone to spewing half-baked thoughts as town than scum

idk this feels kinda townie but i think it's a bit ate-y and self-meta-y and i'm bad at reading that so this is a note to come back to this in a few days

which posts do you think were pocket-y by alchemist?

and yeah i agree that if you don't think he's obvtown you shouldn't have called him; idk i really don't like the way you've walked this back

[skitter30]

NM is likely town.

why

[skitter30]

i odn't know how nm can be anything beyond null right now

[skitter30]

Skitter, who would you never lynch today?

rc and laser

[skitter30]

i odn't know how nm can be anything beyond null right now

oh nm is wgeurts, i forgot

@sky do u usually base your reads on gamestate this strongly?

idk the things you're using to townread people feel shallow

'i should be townread because i was implosion's cw'
'alchemist was on the implosion wagon so he's town'
'wgeurts' wagon built up quickly so he's likely town'

like none of these things really incoroporate people's play

[skitter30]

hey postie do we lynch skitter

why are you asking this?

[skitter30]

What exactly do you mean by “thoughtfulness?” I don’t think there’s anything out of the ordinary.

your posts past like early-mid day1 feel really shallow

like you're kinda here but you're not doing anything or contributing anything much useful

[skitter30]

i don't have a problem with your activity and didn't say or imply that i thought your activity was ai

i'm saying that you're active but that your posts are just kinda there and not really memorable

sky asked me who i would never lynch today and i said rc and laser; rc isn't in my lynch list

[skitter30]

sorry, i didn't mean that in like a personal-sense; i hope you didn't take it that way and if you did i apologize

i meant that in a 'do your posts seem to be contributing to a town wincon' sense

like besides horrordude i don't know who you think is scum

i don't really know who you think is town beyond like sky and maybe random

like i feel like you're active and responsive and have a lot of posts but despite that i don't have a good sense for where you're standing in this game

[skitter30]

VOTE: RANDOM MIDGET

Whats a NM lolhammer?

hello i am pissed about how the random wagon went down

can people on that wagon explain why they were on it and what they thought about it building so quickly on a lurker

also i think that this vote is scum-indicative given taht he seems to be baiting nm for a lolhammer when he's made his entier game about policying nm for behaving anti-town

VOTE: alonzo

[skitter30]

You didn’t even wait for a claim. :/

also this is LAMIST-y

also sky has been townier in twilight

[skitter30]

I liked Popos case, And didnt want to wait a week For RC to have another epiphany.

That was L-1

NM and then an RC emo hammer came after, S

o theres nothing in my play there than to push NM

, and get a claim from a slot that was bothering me.

This isn't the boy who cried wolf, not by a long shot.

In one ten minute phase of the game I was able to garner accurate reads on about 4 different slots, so forgive me If blood had to be spilled for town to bounceback more focused.

can you explain what the bolded means? i don't understand what you're trying to say there

also please elaborate on the 'accurate reads on about 4 different slots' you got out of that

also your post seemed to be baiting a hammer from nm by asking 'what's an nm lolhammer'; given that you made your entire game about policying him i don't exactly believe that you don't know what an nm lolhammer is

[skitter30]

hmm

skitter im not sure how two twilight posts result in a read shift on your D1/D2 tunnel

a) i wasn't around during the wagon but reading it afterwards you said exactly what i was thinking wrt alonzo and alchemist in real time so you get townpoints for having townie reactions to that whole situation

b) sometimes i get tunneled and it's a thing i'm aware that i do so i try to re-evaluate deathtunnels at some point because otherwise i'll push them until i die or lylo; and while sometimes i'm right there have been multiple times where i've been wrong and you did do townie things imo at the end of day2 so i'm willing to stop pushing you for a bit and re-evaluate

like you aren't the towniest town to ever town but i think it's a good idea to re-evaluate given that you have done townie things

[skitter30]

@skitter: but i think that you'd still push me here as scum?? probably?

unless alonzo+alch are town and there are two easy mislynches waiting for you there

(oh no, self meta!)

i'm a lot less likely to death-tunnel you as scum actually; i can be really, really stubborn as town adn that's not something i can fake easily

[skitter30]

yeah, i don't ever do that there; i'd just bus him tbh imo for the cred given that rc was kinda townreading me at that point

i don't think i ever make a thing about not voting my partner on principle as scum in that situation; i'd be too wary about how i'd be percieved for not being on the wagon

of course, that's my own analysis of what i'd do in that situation, so take it with a grain of salt /shrug

[skitter30]

aside i think that in a vacuum seriously pushing policy on nm is scum-indicative as that's a fairly easy mislynch to score imo

[skitter30]

I could get behind an Alonzo wagon.

VOTE: Alonzo

:/

this feels kinda band-wagon-y tbh

[skitter30]

I shouldn't need to be worrying about Lolhammers at all because my town brothers and sisters should have my back. Sorry to bang on by why Dont you read NM as scummy here?

it's literally nai for him

can you explain how anything he's done here is not something he's done as town?

like i don't know why you're calling it scummy when i can point to multiple games with him lolhammering as town

and the most important question is if you think he's going to lolhammer why hasten the wagon

[skitter30]

@Skitter how are you reading skygazer now?

still in the process of re-evaluating but on balance probably ~nulltown?

[skitter30]

actually UNVOTE: for now

don't want another wagon to happen like yesterday and i think we're at l-2 now

my vote is on him in spirit

[skitter30]

actually i don't know if both scum are on the rando wagon?

it was a bad wagon, feels kinda risky for both of them to be on it imo

[skitter30]

viewtopic.php?p=10246483#p10246483

viewtopic.php?p=10283495#p10283495

viewtopic.php?p=9993868#p9993868

^^^

each of these were lolhammer posts and he was town in each

can you explain why lolhammering is scum-indciative for him?

like i can kinda understand voitng him on policy but i don't understand scumreaidng him for something i can demonstrate he does as town quite frequently

[skitter30]

(i can show him doing it as scum too, but that's my point; it's literally nai)

[skitter30]

and he was town in each

And he was engaged in each. Theres more posts on each of those Individual pages highlighted than he has in this game.

lol no he wasn't

he was kinda active in the third link but the first two he lurked and popped in to vote someone when he got prodded and offered like no substantial input basically all game

i wouldn't call that engaged

I mean those are good exmples of what I imagine NM's town game is like, but this isn't even close.

like i'm telling you that i see nothing to diffrentiate his behavior between here and, say, american president's mafia where he was town

==

VOTE:Alchemist

Let's see what daddy says...

i don't understand this vote
==

I liked popo's case and had suspicions of rando for much of the game myself. Clearing out some of the deadwood after D1 scum lynch makes sense anyway, especially in a game as low energy as this one was in D2. The wagon going from two votes to lynch within 5 hours was quite surprising. A lot of the votes there look very opportunistic.

i didn't particularly mind your vote; the votes after yours i find uspicious and kinda oppurtunistic/band-wagon-y

i don't really like vizzy's, nm's, or alonzo's

i've kinda lost my townread on vizzy

[skitter30]

Again, a huge part of my thinking was to light a fire under RC's ass, but that wasn't the reaction I was expecting from him at all....

i mean, what were you trying to get him to do exactly?

[skitter30]

In post 938, Alonzo wrote:
VOTE:Alchemist

Let's see what daddy says...


i don't understand this vote

With a confirmed Town RC, what harm pushing one of his top reads?

No interest in a NM push,

and Skygazer seeming to have the moral highground after the EOD yesterday....

it's lazy and i don't get why you've stopped pushing nm given that he basically did exactly what you've accused him of doing all game (yes i know it was lol-l1 and not a lolhammer)

also you said you thought sky was town so i don't understand the bolded

[skitter30]

i think alonzo is town

y tho

==

Is there anyone who knows Invis well enough to read them accurately and be able to describe the difference in their Town and scum games?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=76501

i just finished this game with him where we were scumpartners and honestly .... i don't know how well i can diffrentiate between scum!vizzy and town!vizzy

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=76627

and this game he was town, was v/la for a week, didn't feel like catching up, so just decided to rep out

i think that slacking off from giving content and popping in to say someone is town without really doing anything else is something he does as scum, but i don't know if it's something he woudn't do as town

i think he's slightly more inclined to put effort into scumgames than towngames imo

i don't feel good about meta-reading him either way

my townread on him has kinda been lost tbh

==

i don't really like ither of the alonzo or alchemist wagons

i don't have enough townreads for the stage of the game we're in i feel like

also i feel like horror's content has kinda dropped off since early game

==

idk i think i'll go back here for now

VOTE: alonzo

[skitter30]

vote:alchemist

RC was pushing this also

i dont like skitter in this game either tbh

why not?

also what do you mean by 'this game' - you haven't played with me before as far as i know

[skitter30]

THAT'S L-1 BTW

bold to get ur attention
also caps

vizzy i think you might be scum tbh

[skitter30]

it's not that post in particular, so much the general lack of content

idk popping into to announce L-1 without saying anything else is kinda meh

until i checked the vc i honestly thought he was baiting an nm lolhammer; and nm did come in to vote just afterwards; incidentally he happened to be on the wagon already so it didn't do anything

i don't think the lolhammer is remotely ai; i don't know what you want me to say about it

show me, pray tell, where i'm deliberately attempting to stall a townbloc

[skitter30]

for some reason i'm conflating the votes for you and for alchemist

i thought vizzy was calling out popo's l1 vote for alchemist, and that nm then voted for alchemist too as a hammer but was already on the wagon

but actually nm voted for you and made *that* wagon l-1 and removed a vote from alchemist

@vizzy did you realize that nm was already on alchemist's wagon?

also do you like town or scum more in general?

p-edit: the first part was @alonzo

[skitter30]

show me, pray tell, where i'm deliberately attempting to stall a townbloc

Just your relentless questioning of slots feels like an attempt to stir things up, Like I read your Iso and I dont think theres anyone thats asked more questions than you in this one, should be a huge towntell right? but the conclusions you are getting from having everyone tend your questions are totally bizarre.

If #560 was 'swimming upstream', #979(?) was borderline pissing into the wind. I get your distrust of my slot based on yesterdays lynch, I broke from my serious stance on NM to a stance that was inconsiderate of the status quo, But I certainly didn't hammer RM singlehandedly.

that doesn't answer the question of showing me where i'm deliberately attempting to stall a townbloc

i have no idea where you're getting that from my iso and if you can't show me i'm just going to think you're throwing out baseless accusations that you can't back up if you can't actually point to where i'm doing that - asking questions you dont' like or coming to 'bizarre' conclusions != 'deliberately attempting to stall a townbloc'

what's an example of a 'bizarre' conclusion?

i asked you multiple times why you don't like 560 and you aren't explaining it; i don't know what 'swimming upstream' means or why that's scum-motivated, nor do i know what issue you're taking with 979 - what exactly do you think is bad about 979?

and yes i think l-1'ing before we were ready to end the day when you've made your entire game about warning about nm and his propensity to lolhammer is scummy

[skitter30]

and yes i think l-1'ing before we were ready to end the day when you've made your entire game about warning about nm and his propensity to lolhammer is scummy

i take this back; i just checked the vc again and you weren't the l1 vote; i forgot about rc

VOTE: RANDOM MIDGET

Whats a NM lolhammer?

i do still think that wagon was oppurtunitic and that there were very probably scum on that wagon and i think this vote is sketchy when you've made your whole game about policying nm

[skitter30]

alonzo you played with town!nm in newbie 1869

you did push him on policy as town there too

but you dropped it when multiple other people said they townread him

idk UNVOTE:

i don't know if pushing a game-long policy lynch on nm is scummy if you've done it before as town and in a newbie game you stated you expected a town!ic to push nm on policy

i still think the things you're seeing about me on the last page are kinda baseless tho and i do want you to explain them

[skitter30]

RC made an early scumread on you based off associatives, you spent alot of D1 convincing RC you were town, but you leave the door open for him to be scum. '

If RC says you are town we must all believe it because RC said it

, and if he reaches any other conclusion he is wrong'

i don't think i said or implied the bolded anywhere, nor did i tell anyone that they should townread me because he was

i was saying that rc can read me pretty well and i was pretty confident that he'd figure out because scum!me can't fool him; i didn't say any of you should sheep him about it

==

It will emerge later you have a very intimate knowledge of what a liability NM is, but instead use my read as a reason to question my alignment.

yes, in a vaccuum i think that seriously pushing a policy lynch on nm is scummy because i don't think lolhammering or anything is ai for him; when there's other legitimate scummy people about i think pushing a pl on nm is a cop-out and lazy and a way to score a mislynch as scum

either way after finding that newbie i think this is a thing you actually believe so i don't think it's scummy of you anymore

NM is a total liability and will suck up town resources later in the game, lets keep him alive....

i think he should always be resovled before lylo in some way, be it by lynch/vig/cop, but i think making him the day1 lynch on policy is lazy and a copout

==

This is a double edged sword, you have a good lead in Sky, but it be revealed with hindsight you have protected a confirmed scummer,

And frankly I think you have exhausted so much energy getting tha RC townread whilst not allowing yourself to trust RC you have lost sight of the larger gamestate

i think this might true tbh

==

This ientire chunk is a very elaborate way of saying nothing at all. You DONT have any kind of solid read on Invisibility and you think everyone should feel the same.

he asked if anyone has experience with vizzy, so i answered that i did but that i don't think it's conclusive either way

you're right, i don't have a good read on vizzy; i'm trying to get one

i don't know if everyone should feel the same; if anyone has a strong read on vizzy either way i'm all ears because i don't think i know how to read him

==

i don't really like ither of the alonzo or alchemist wagons So vote elsewhere then...

i don't have enough townreads for the stage of the game we're in i feel like Jeez I wonder why when you use extreme paranoia when evaluating every slot, but then confidently turn around and say a slot with no content and bad play isn't a viable lynch (NM)

also i feel like horror's content has kinda dropped off since early game Say something AI about this

i voted you because i felt worse about you at that time even though the wagon was kinda meh

i changed my mind after reading your iso in that newbie + this post

i don't think i use extreme paranoia when evaluating every slot; most of the people in this game just don't have playstyles that i can read easily

i don't really have anything ai to say about horror; i was noting it

i tend to think aloud when i play mafia; jsut writing out various observations helps me articulate them; also i basically just say evyerhting that i'm thinking because i very often tend to still be alive in endgame and when i inevitably end up re-reading the whole game it's easier when i have notes saying what i was thinking at various stages of the game because otherwise i'll forget

[skitter30]

Meta, he has seen my towngame and been lynched by me as scum.

how do you think vizzy compares to that game?

[skitter30]

What are you thinking about vizzy?

[skitter30]

I've kinda changed my mind on alonzo i think; i think that pushing nm is something he'd do as town; i also really like the post above where he took apart my posts

This kinda matches my experience with scum!vizzy but i dont know his towngame well ebough to know if this posting style is ai

[skitter30]

Also @horror what do u think about the fact that the two wagons today are on your scumreads?

[skitter30]

Hmmm....

I’m looking at the games Skitter linked and the game I had with Invis. The only difference I can kinda see is it seems Invis might be more hesitant to place a vote as scum. His voting pattern here is like when he was Town in the game with me and not scum in the game with Skitter. I can’t really use the Town game Skitter linked since Invis replaced out after 5 rl days.

The scumgame had funky mechanics - specifically that kingmaker was elected via secret voting (ie pm'ing the mod)

How often he voted in that game isnt exactly representative of his scumgame in a general sense

[skitter30]

@Alonzo You're both interchangeable right now for my pick of 2nd scum. I really don't like your behavior baiting the lolhammer yesterday and then seeming to get upset when it actually happened, but popo was pushing for the lynch just as hard. But then today popo is okay putting someone at L-1 with over a week to deadline in an attempt to bait another lolhammer.

I could make cases for either of you.

@skitter Vizzy has gone up and down for me all game. He started contenting when he was pressured, but since people have backed off he's reverted back to lurking

bolded is pinging me the wrong way

i do think that efforting and asking to be engaged is slightly likelier to come from town imo tho

[skitter30]

If he's town, we lose the unhelpful troll slot but it's still a mislynch.

You lose a town, but you regain the ability to put people to L1 and wait for a claim, and generally using EOD properly rather than having to ask everyone to claim at l-2

yeah i changed my mind about alonzo; i think this comes from town most of the time especially coupled with that newbie game i found

[skitter30]

An onfire RC was 90% sure she was scum.

Outside of giving his big D1 read the rest of his ISO is just resisting the browbeat from a thousand Skitter questions...

i mean if we're going to pull the 'rc read' card he retracted teh scumread and was townreading me pretty hard for the latter part of the day

i don't think he's ever been wrong on me tbh

[skitter30]

vote:alchemist

RC was pushing this also

i dont like skitter in this game either tbh

Remember that secret scumreading I mentioned yesterday? It was popo and this is more of the sane I was seeing. This is the second time he’s thrown a lazy vote on me “because RC said so.”

I haven’t seen much else from him aside from the RM case he made, but there’s a problem with that too. It boiled down to “he’s lurking” despite me linking to multiple hames showing RM is just like that. He acknowledged my post with the links but then later went back to RM for lurking anyway. I don’t think he looked into the links or cared about sorting RM anyway.

Together it reads like opportunistic scum.

VOTE: popo

why were you keeping the popo read secret?

it occurs to me that white-knighting random is a good way for scum to get towncred

i did like the random defense case you psoted tho

what do you think about the fact that implo was pushing popo just before he got lynched?

[skitter30]

They seemed very buddy buddy during their push on me with the "This exactly" comment, and aside from Alch coming to random's defense from popo's attack (which he never gives any indication he finds scummy), there is no implication of any suspicion/scumreads on each other at all... especially from popo's side.

i'm not really seeing the 'buddy buddy' - ness of which you speak

i don't like that pop called alch 'the towniest town tho'

After Day 1 back and forths regarding me and random, we get some major Day 2 distancing. Popo gives no reasoning for his sudden 180 on Alch except for sheeping RC, which makes no sense given his "Towniest townie" comment at the end of Day 1. I included 783 on this because of Alch's 1027, but that looks as vague a comment as you could get as it could apply to literally anyone in the game.

so you're saying that popo, as scum, bussed implosion and is now bussing alch because he's just sheeping rc

idk that doesn't really feel like a svs intereaction between him and alch given the implosion flip too

like why bus alch here at all? why do it the same way he bussed implosion?

This just screams mutual bus attempt imo. P

opo continues to just sheep RC's old reads without actually providing a case as to what Alch has done that was scummy,

and I really can't believe anyone would buy Alch's "secret scumread".

like i think this probably doesn't come from scum bussing their second partner after bussing their first partner that way after rc was already like dead?

idk it doesn't feel like something popo would do here

[skitter30]

i don't really like ither of the alonzo or alchemist wagons

i don't have enough townreads for the stage of the game we're in i feel like

Can you talk to me a bit about where you are at as your reads are concerned? Who do you think is most likely scum at this point?

you're town

alonzo is probably town; and i think i was maybe wrong on sky; i'm going to call her town for now becauase i don't really have enough townreads and her eod2 feels kinda townie to me

everyone else is a muddled mess of somewhere between scumlean and nullscum which is why i'm unhappy with the gamestate

[skitter30]

This doesn't exactly inspire confidence in any of the associatives on Alch at this point; he seems to pair well with almost anyone. FWIW, I like horrordude's argument here, but I can see some of the others reading back as well.

i don't really think the alch/popo theory makes sense from popo's pov imo

[skitter30]

thats pretty neato
VOTE: popo
:989fa03

don't really like this vote tbh

[skitter30]

crazy how fast my wagon built up, much like yesterday's on RM, also a VT

get off my dick

i feel like scum is maybe less belligerant here and maybe more survivalistic and/or cooperative

[skitter30]

crazy how fast my wagon built up, much like yesterday's on RM, also a VT

also this
popo is not the townes

i feel like you're just hopping onto the hip new bandwagon tbh

[skitter30]

Look at implo's case on popo and tell me that's SvS because im not seeing it at all

Why don't you think scum!implosion would try to push a bus to get RC off of his tunnel?

i mean realistically it was like less than a day to deadline; i don't think that popo was actually going to get flipped there so i don't think 'try to get rc off of his tunnel' was a motivation for bussing scum!popo there

[skitter30]

I don’t see how Implosion’s post about Popo exonerates him.

Yeah it’s a block of text, so what? He had a lot of other blocky posts.

You guys should look at the larger picture. By the most recent votecount of Implo’s popo vote, Implosion was at L-3. He leaves the Sky wagon for a vote on popo only to move back later on. Put in the larger perspective I think it’s a pretty awkward attempt at distancing when Implosion knew his wagon was serious.

this is an icky post

[skitter30]

@Skitter I get that you don't necessarily buy popo!bus in this situation. Do you see it as TvT or TvS right now, and which way are you leaning if the latter?

i don't think svs

probably not tvt? the way they're both pushing the other's wagons feels kinda slimy

i think i'm tending towards popo-t and alch-s because i just don't know if scum is so stubborn and anti-helping-town here when they see it's making people not like them; i feel like he'd have modulated his 'fuck no i'm not giving reads here' approach as scum after the first time when he saw how that was recieved

[skitter30]

Any particular reason you have horrordude in the scumlean-to-nullscum group? I've been liking how he's been working through the game for the most part. I do agree there's too many people that all kind of fit awkwardly together. Having N_M as a hard null doesn't help.

i guess i just don't think that anything they've done is impossible to fake and it just isn't townie enough for this stage of the game

he's probably like on the very upper reaches of null-scum tho, like just below null

like i guess i dont' actively scumread him but i don't really have anything that i can point to confidently and be like 'i think this is townie' and at this point of the game that evens out on the scummy side i think

[skitter30]

Because he was being low effort but at one point D2 it looked like he might start contributing more and I wanted to see if he did or if he kept up the pattern I was seeing. If I had said something earlier he could have changed it up anyway because he’d know what I was looking for.

I gave my thoughts on Implo/popo. What didn’t you like about my post on that?

idk i don't really get the secrecy thing tbh

i also don't really like how that wagon popped up so fast after you voted there

i can kinda see why implosion may have cased a partner there but that case kinda felt like the most emphatic thing he did all game; i'm kinda feeling like he was making a last-ditch attempt to turn away the wagon tbh

1062 feels tonally off to me but i don't know if i can explain why exactly

[skitter30]

i scumread

feel like i explained enough at the time

So why cant you make a case on any scumreads today?

i dont owe u shit

like idk i feel like scum would be more conciliatory here after seeing this attitude was making more people scumread him, not less

[skitter30]

One more question popo

can you plz tell me which of these players if any you have played with before.

ty

i dont think any

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=76947

Final answer?

i mean it's weird but i don't really see the scum motivation to lie about such things? or the town motivation either tbh

[skitter30]

i saw a good case i voted the player

i eman you saw a case explaining why he's scum with alch, not that he himself was scum (i don't think it was a good case to begin with tbh)

what's your opinion on alch and why vote popo over alch there?

[skitter30]

also maybe popo doesnt get cleared?

what does this mean?

[skitter30]

VOTE: vizzy

[skitter30]

Because there’s no actual case against him other than what Lazerguy said, and I don’t think his votes have been opportunistic. People voted Invis after his post about popo because...? Popo’s 10x scummier and is a better wagon.

btw VOTE: rando

he literally never mentioned rando before this outside of:

-> 35 - listed him as being part of the group of 'insane people'

-> 193 - states that he kinds likes random after that he explained that bad post he had made and used it to reaffirm his vote on horror dude (which he retracted four posts later iirc)

-> 681 - states taht alch's case on random is null-indicative of random

-> the above quoted vote

this is ... not a good vote

in fact, given how the random wagon ended up, i would call it oppurtunistic

he voted popo because horror gave a case linking you and popo; don't understand why he picked voting popo over you given taht there was a wagon on you at the time

when i asked how he felt about you, he neglected to answer

when the fervor died down over the popo wagon he retracted the popo read and called him town, and then retracted *taht* when questioned

his reads and posts seem oppurtunistic and seem to go along with popular opinion, especially his stance wrt popo

[skitter30]

Because there’s no actual case against him other than what Lazerguy said, and I don’t think his votes have been opportunistic. People voted Invis after his post about popo because...? Popo’s 10x scummier and is a better wagon.

independant of the popo (ie ignoring the fact that you think popo is a better wagon), how do you read vizzy

because this post just makes it soudn like you think popo is a better wagon but doesn't actually explain your read on vizzy

[skitter30]

i mean that's fine and isn't inherently scummy but in the context of hopping on his wagon when a case was made between him + someone else making sense as buddies but refusing to talk about the other person and then calling him town when the wagon fizzles down and then retracting the townread when question is kinda questionable

[skitter30]

Because there’s no actual case against him other than what Lazerguy said, and I don’t think his votes have been opportunistic. People voted Invis after his post about popo because...? Popo’s 10x scummier and is a better wagon.

independant of the popo (ie ignoring the fact that you think popo is a better wagon), how do you read vizzy

because this post just makes it soudn like you think popo is a better wagon but doesn't actually explain your read on vizzy

@alch can you respond to this please?

[skitter30]

im a tracker

UNVOTE:

i don't particularly believe this, nor do i think you can't be a scum!tracker

but i don't think it needs to be resolved via a lynch today

[skitter30]

i targeted skitter n1 and sky n2
neither of which moved

fwiw i confirm this

why check me and sky these nights?

[skitter30]

I think the signup post in the queue said only those roles

I think a scum vanilla cop is more likely than a scum neighborizer or tracker

And vizzy's tracker choices make sense coming from town

why do you think this?

[skitter30]

i think alonzo scumreads n_m because not participating?
but n_m doesnt play mafia anymore anyway
he's more off a game mechanic

lol i think this is the best way to describe nm

i think alonzo legit wants to policy him but this is something he *strongly believes as town*

[skitter30]

Invisibility: LaserGuy, skitter30, Not_Mafia

Alchemist21: Skygazer, popopopopopopo, horrordude0215

Alonzo:

popopopopopopo: Alchemist21, Alonzo, Invisibility

none of these wagons look super awesome to me

i think i want to vote alchemist the most right now tbh

[skitter30]

ah ok that makes sense

i was thinking that i don't remember him scumreading either of us at the end of those days so i thought it was a little bit odd

tbf i didn't go back and check so it's possible i'm remembering incorrectly

[skitter30]

ye that's what i'm thinking too; i don't think he needs to be sorted by a lynch today tbh

[skitter30]

@laser

i'm cool with alch or nm but am tending towards alch i think

@sky

i think alch but i was also just thinking that poe-wise nm is a fairly decent candidate here

(townpoints for thinking this at just he same time as me)

[skitter30]

well here's how i arrived at that:

Strong town to leaning town on this list:
Skygazer
horrordude0215
skitter30
Alonzo
LaserGuy
popopopopopopo (doesn't make sense with implo)
Invisibility

Leaving:
Alchemist21
Not_Mafia

why are you townreading horror so strongly? this is kinda my list but i'd swap horror with laser, and you're farther down

==

Can someone please vote for Nicholas Flamel?

as always i quite enjoy your humor

==

Kind of thinking we should just lynch Alch today and NM tomorrow and see where we stand after that.

i'm kinda thinking that too

the one thing i'm slightly concerned about is the general consensus for these two tbh

==

@alch i think i'm going to vote for you so i think now would be a good time to claim given that not-mafia is itching to lolhammer

[skitter30]

(i mean i'm not exactly the type of person to just lolvote after asking for a claim)

ok that does kinda explain why he seems to be townreading you

@alch:

is your townread on vizzy from the thread? the neighborhood? the fact that i'm guessing he claimed in the neighborhood?

why did you neighborizer vizzy?

@vizzy:

when did he neiborize you? how do you read him

i don't think the claim is inherently ai; ie specifically neighborizer is not a town-specific role

[skitter30]

neighborizer is like net-null for town pretty much; it doesn't really have much town utility

it does have some scum-utility in that scum can use it to pocket people

[skitter30]

In post 1249, Not_Mafia wrote:
Can someone please vote for Nicholas Flamel?


as always i quite enjoy your humor

Translate for the rest of us... is he saying something AI?

Nicholas flamel lived in france in the like 1400's and was believed to be an alchemist - he's saying he wants to hammer alch once someone else votes for him

[skitter30]

When I first brought him in he said “don’t tell anyone I’m in the hood” and I told him I’d need a good reason for that and then he claimed. The way it all happened was in a way that I’m sure only comes from Town.

I dont get it - why would vizzy care if people know he's in a hood; its not like its a big deal or anything, getting neighborized

Did u neighborize anyone else, or just vizzy?

I need to check what your read was like yesterday on him

[skitter30]

I've played as scum neighborizer before. I actually neighborized a scumbuddy N1 to build up the theater before bringing in a townie N2 to pocket for the mislynch in lylo. (One of my better scumplays, actually.)

I don't think the claim changes much for me right now tbh.

So in american presidents mafia, scum fake-claimed one-shot neighborizer, claimed he used it on his buddy; said buddy waa faking a gunsmith guilty on a guy named blackvoid; the fake-neighbirizer outed their 'neighborhood' and said the fake-gunsmith was acting shifty and we lynch the fake-gunsmith. And the fake-neighborizer coasted to 4way mylo on the cred of bussing his partner, which i fully believed

Blackvoid was more incredulous because he modded this game you've mentioned and saw you neighborize a buddy

And now im more wary about that sort of gambit and also i dont know if neighborizer is important enough to keep

[skitter30]

When I first brought him in he said “don’t tell anyone I’m in the hood” and I told him I’d need a good reason for that and then he claimed. The way it all happened was in a way that I’m sure only comes from Town.

I dont get it - why would vizzy care if people know he's in a hood; its not like its a big deal or anything, getting neighborized

Did u neighborize anyone else, or just vizzy?

I need to check what your read was like yesterday on him

Nobody else is in the hood right now. I was going to neighborize BBT N1 but he died.

these are entirely random people to neighborize; i don't really get it

[skitter30]

Vizzy can also confirm that we were in agreement that Skitter would have been the next one in the hood. He wanted a better read on them and I wanted to show why I was reading Vizzy the way I was while hopefully keeping the hood’s existence secret.

overall i think the neighborhood probably exists; i just don't understand why you chose to neighborize the people you did

i'm kinda ambivalent doing this

overall i don't really think neighborizer is something worth not-lynching you over tbh

[skitter30]

IIRC Neibourhood chats can be copy and pasted?

most mods aren't cool with that iirc

[skitter30]

Who would you have neighborized then? I’ve clearly explained my reasons on why I picked those people. It’s on you if you don’t get it.

rc and then laser probably cuzi townread both of them

[skitter30]

i'm kinda ready to end the day too

VOTE: alch

i think you've been scummy through day2 and day3 and i don't think that a neighborizer claim is worth not-lynching you over

[skitter30]

probably voting nm i think

@horror what do you think about the popo/alch connection now?

i think laser is town, and that popo is prob town on associatives. alonzo is also probably town.

sky and horror also but less strongly than the above

basically the main person i'm not townreading in any way is nm

[skitter30]

probably voting nm i think

@horror what do you think about the popo/alch connection now?

i think laser is town, and that popo is prob town on associatives. alonzo is also probably town.

sky and horror also but less strongly than the above

basically the main person i'm not townreading in any way is nm

garbage post

ok

why?

[skitter30]

@horror what do you think about the popo/alch connection now?

I looked at the argument again during night and your responses to it make sense - the connections I saw probably came from confbias considering I was scumreading both of them at the time.

I'm not going to townread him for it, but I don't think the associations are nearly as strong as I thought yesterday.

i basically don't think he busses both of his buddies on 'rc says so', especially not alch once rc is actually dead

[skitter30]

no, i meant just that; i think pretty much townread everyone in this game on play on some level beyond popo and nm; i think that popo isn't scum with alch and implosion

that leaves nm

it's like

{laser}
{alonzo, pop} -- > pop goes here because of scum associatves
{}
{sky, horror}
{nm} ---> null

[skitter30]

well alch and vizzy died so that removed a lot of the muddled mess of scumleans

laser is still town; alonzo is still town; sky i think i sprobably town but not as strongly; the alch scumflip bumped up popo into town too because i dont' think they're scum together

you i don't super strongly townread or anything but i think on balance you're trying to gamesolve; you were kinda town early in the game but the read kinda faded when you became less active end of day2 and early day3 but at the end of day3 i felt like you were more engaged and trying to solve the game

it's not a strong read but like ~nulltown

i don't think nm is town at all or had like flickers of towniness anywhere

[skitter30]

i mean, ok?

i don't know why you dislike what i just said

[skitter30]

106: lol if two scum wagoned the third scum to L-1

in a vacuum i kinda agree; but then i was thinking that i honestly can see nm being bussed like that, but then i remembered that it wasn't nm at that point, but wgeurts, and i kinda agree with you here actually; this is a good point

looking through the votes again, it was alch's rvs vote and he stayed on as the wagon grew bigger; i think he could have easily switched off at some point, and then implosion hopped on ~post 100 too; i don't think that both of them wagon their partner that early tbh

[skitter30]

Also lol at popo!town and laser!scum

Lol popo I'm not getting lynched today get real.

these feel bravado-y to me

[skitter30]

i don't think im good at reading skitter on play alone but scum-skitter likely busses implo and bus alch earlier than she did imo and skitter has stuck to her guns with her tunnels here

also the mind-melding

qft

[skitter30]

any thoughts wrt mass claiming?

we very, very, very likely do not have another protective given the rc death n2 and there's likely a vanilla cop still imo and they'll prob die tonight if they claim

also with what we've seen of the setup thus far i'd guess the last scum is a goon so idk how helpful a vanilla cop will even be now that i think about it

[skitter30]

OH i knew i had another reasoning for townreading skitter: vizzy's result

eh i mean theoretically scum!me would not have necessarily done the nk there given that rc had tied me to implosion; idk if this is a good reason to townread me

[skitter30]

VIZZY HAD NO RESULT FROM ME NIGHT 2
ALCH NEIGHBORIZED NIGHT 2
OTHER SCUM HAD TO DO THE KILL NIGHT 2

oh that's awesome

[skitter30]

Also lol at popo!town and laser!scum

Lol popo I'm not getting lynched today get real.

these feel bravado-y to me

Not sure how the former would, I've had laser as a top town read since he came into the game. The latter is a little overconfident sure. I haven't totally obvtowned the entire game but I definitely feel like I've efforted far more than others. Also, again no one has given a real case against me aside from feelings so I'm not expecting a major wagon to come my way today when I feel there are certainly better options.

sorry, had to take a phone call

i don't know exactly why; it might be the lol's, but the tone feels kinda off

who do you think the better options are?

[skitter30]

i think skitter is even more likely town if this tired convoluted logic makes sense:

alch apparently did not neighborize night one. this strongly increases his chances of having performed the night one kill, because claiming to have neighborized the n1 death looks sus af and i don't imagine it would be done lightly. one strong potential reason alch would want to perform the kill: scum have two power roles. if scum thought their potential second power role was more important than the neighborizer in terms of nightplay, that means both scum would be targetting someone on n1. skitter did not visit anyone n1.

i rest my case

huh, i think that's a decent point, that he hadn't enighborized anyone n1 because he may have done the kill

unfortunately we don't know whether nobody appeared in the neighborhood because of that or because his target died; i do still think bbt is an odd target tbh

eh this is only a good reason to townread me if you actually believe scum have two prs here; honestly i kinda doubt it given the townflips thus far tbh

[skitter30]

and like there's no way for us to find out whether or not his neighborize didn't observably happen because bbt died or because he did the nk

so this is kinda wifom and not something i'd read into too much either way

p-edit yeah i was going to say that you kinda sound like you want to townread me tbh

[skitter30]

although alchemist not neighborizing anyone n1 kind of fucked him for the rest of the game. hard to explain..so maybe he did neighbor bbt

on balance i kinda think that alch would want to have observable results so that he could prove he wasn't doing the nk

also if you read alch's explanation for neighborizing bbt i thought he was kinda sincere about it; more sincere than the vizzy explanation for sure; i think he was kinda pissed that he had actually planned it out but the neighborizing got kinda ruined by bbt happening to die

this is all kinda speculation tho; i don't think i ought to be cleared for this at all given that there were two scum alive at that point and it's entirely possible that scum!me just had alch do the kill