Open 731: Twin Trap (Game Over)

[Toranaga]

Inferno390 is being replaced.

Toranaga, ManateeDude's replacement, hasn't picked up his Role PM. He has (expired on 2018-08-08 05:00:00) to confirm his Role PM, or else the slot will be replaced by someone else in his stead.

weeeeeeeeeeee

[Toranaga]

I missed this part of it and looks like my posts itg got deleted because of it

sorry mod sucks to suck

[Toranaga]

lowkey just posting here cause wh4t is playing

[Toranaga]

Votecount 1.6

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch.

Wh4t

(2): ManateeDude, Poseidon

ManateeDude

(3): Eragon, Egg, BuJaber

GameNBurger

(3): Wh4t, Fromage, Almost50

Not Voting

(1): GameNBurger

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-08-14 08:00:00)

I'll move my vote to VOTE: Fromage but I'd happily move to Manatee once Toranaga confirms he's scum.

you're the devil

in before you're the one who replaced into a mafia slot

[Toranaga]

Scummoned.

Tor would you mind repeating what the mod deleted please?

I made no reads and called the setup incredibly townsided to the point of it being almost broken

you get 2 PRs and possible guilties on mafia. as long as you don't get possible false clears as actual clears you're fine. no open 9er should have 2 investigative town roles, that's silly.

and I know I lost one of those already as town but still

[Toranaga]

wh4t why are you voting fromage? I just ISO'd him and don't see what's scummy about it

[Toranaga]

I don't like how Burger put Inferno at L-1 and is fine with quicklynching him. Yes, inferno's behaviour has been consistent but I doubt this is a scum tell. In 58 Burger says he wants to hear more from poseidon and me before he puts inferno at L-1. Poseidon posts hardly anything 76 and I post very little. Then he just puts inferno at L-1. In 58 he said he feels uneasy quicklynching. But I don't recognize any uneasiness in 130 .

I also don't like 97. It contains a lot of speculation and focuses on one single interaction between manatee and inferno. Imho it's WIFOM. In addition to that I don't understand why he looks at manatee's meta but not at inferno's 98. Other people mentioned the possibility of inferno being lynchbait. Burger just excludes this possibility. 114 I cannot follow his thought process.

To conclude, I think Burger might be scum due to his inconsistent behaviour.
VOTE: GameNBurger

[Toranaga]

and this is who you're voting?

[Toranaga]

in the context where you're actually inferno, that feels pretty bad

you have to realise that's town motivated posting, yes?

[Toranaga]

you get 2 PRs and possible guilties on mafia.

Don't you mean "we?"

I believe you just scum slipped.

VOTE: Toranaga L-1.

no, I mean "you"

it's just a way to phrase things

[Toranaga]

gamenburger doing metadives in a 9er isn't something I expect from scum

[Toranaga]

in the context where you're actually inferno, that feels pretty bad

you have to realise that's town motivated posting, yes?

A single post doesn't determine alignment. You'll notice he was pushed off his initial victim (Eragon) when his reasons were challenged, so sure he would try better with the next reasoning. A50 weakened my slot's position so the move onto me wasn't any less opportunistic than scumreading someone for fluff posting.

What do you think of poseidons thoughts about him?

I didn't read anyone else's thoughts on that dude

didn't you replace into this yesterday? why are you posting so very little here?

[Toranaga]

A lot of Eragon's posts contain only fluff. (35, 60, 62) I don't like it. VOTE: Eragon

FOS: Inferno. I don't like how much time he spends defending himself and how little scumhunting he does.

Fromage, why does eragons fluff outweigh his content?

Careful. I didn't say Eragon's fluff outweighs his content. I said I don't like his fluff. I'm not even sure if I scumread him.

The backtracking here gives me scummy vibes. The initial read was pretty bad nitpicking, it felt like he decided to scum read someone lynchbaity before he looked for posts to back the read (if you actually look at the posts he's pointing out as "fluff"). 85 is opportunistic imo.

this feels like the sort of very easy read into

inconsistency

that scum likes to push cause it looks pushable without being actual things scum does

[Toranaga]

reading inferno now and I have hard time believing this angrily replaced out while L-1 as actual scum cause it'd be incredibly dickish thing to do

but I'm not townreading wh4t. for all the reasons someone could probably come up with for scumreading me, "catching" me in a "scumslip" feels disingenuous alongside the way she is pushing eragon.

[Toranaga]

you're lucky, wh4t

inferno is towny so it is what it is

eragon/inferno/gamenburger

to a lesser extent egg

are people I'm expecting to be town a lot here

[Toranaga]

I meant fromage not eragon

why am I confusing them

[Toranaga]

I didn't read anyone else's thoughts on that dude

didn't you replace into this yesterday? why are you posting so very little here?

I'm referring to Poseidon's 280

I was waiting for the mod to confirm my slot. I don't think it's fair to say I'm posting very little since then lol. If we turn that around, your lack of activity is also suspicious, combine that with you beetlejuicing just now, and we get Toranaga scumcake. I know you're a motivated and active town player in contrast to being a demotivated and lurky scumplayer.

As an aside I'd like some reads from you when you get the chance.

so you read me posting a readslist and still clicked send with the last sentence

I either don't care about game or I fully care about it with no in between

what's beetlejuicing?

[Toranaga]

fromage/inferno/gamenburger

to a lesser extent egg

townreads

not townreading eragon, just confused his name with "fromage" as weird as that sounds

[Toranaga]

Toranaga replaces ManateeDude!

...in case you guys didn't already notice.

lol sorry mate

[Toranaga]

but I'm not townreading wh4t. for all the reasons someone could probably come up with for scumreading me, "catching" me in a "scumslip" feels disingenuous alongside the way she is pushing eragon.

Where am I pushing Eragon? It's strange that you don't ask for more thoughts on my scumread like Poseidon did, but just jump to the conclusion I'm scum from what I disclosed as a skimming read.

Pedit beetlejuicing is when you appear when you're being talked about.

I meant fromage, I'm an idiot

#280 is pushing people for NAI stuff, yes? flip flopping isn't wolfy, neither is calling other people inconsistent when you're flip flopping yourself cause being hypocritical is specifically not a wolfy thing

I subbed in to a widely talked of slot my dear. the only reason I started posting right now is because I saw you posted on central park and figured you were online and posting in my game, so I wanted to talk to you.

[Toranaga]

I understand you're unlikely to un-tunnel yourself from this read cause you wanna be right but you're wrong, your reasons so far are alarmingly poor and your fromage read is bad as well

I'm VT so I'm not a terrible lynch and I don't have a good case for anyone being scum from what I can read, so if you wanna move on with the gamestate go ahead

play better though.

[Toranaga]

people I didn't read or read and didn't townread are eragon/bujaber/a50/poseidon which is coincidentally half my wagon

[Toranaga]

wh4t is the scummiest player in the game but I'm townreading the slot overrall for angrily replacing out reasons. I'm keeping manatee's vote on it for lack of a better option.

eragon and poseidon don't feel scummy in their ISOs either. I'm not trying to parse out either bujaber or a50 this gameday so that's where I'm gonna be.

[Toranaga]

but I'm not townreading wh4t. for all the reasons someone could probably come up with for scumreading me, "catching" me in a "scumslip" feels disingenuous alongside the way she is pushing eragon.

Where am I pushing Eragon? It's strange that you don't ask for more thoughts on my scumread like Poseidon did, but just jump to the conclusion I'm scum from what I disclosed as a skimming read.

Pedit beetlejuicing is when you appear when you're being talked about.

I'm not saying you're scum

you're definitely not towny!you so far and I'd be grilling you hard if you didn't replace into a towny slot

[Toranaga]

ok I have things to do

we talk later :* :*

[Toranaga]

in before you're the one who replaced into a mafia slot

Possible scumslip?

ugh this is something personal with wh4t and idk, maybe she can clarify? anyway it refers to a past conversation we had privately and I understand how it looks weird without context

[Toranaga]

Easy claim, not convinced.

READS

Burger/A50/Buj

Egg/Tor/Eragon

Fro/Wh4t

if only I had randed PR instead.

[Toranaga]

Toranaga you are assessing my playstyle from the viewpoint of my other personality. It wouldn't seem like town me.

I don't believe my reads are bad or that I'm scummy. I think you're making your cake and eating it too by saying my slot is town but I'm scummy. Saying I'm scummy prolongs the existing paranoia around my slot and it's easier to say I'm scummy instead of looking for opportunities to see where I'm not.

I'll see if I can explain my fromage read better.

you look objectively scum to me dear, not gonna lie. I'm not trying to have the best of two different worlds, or

eating my cake and having it too

or whatever. what I'm saying (and I know you understand what I'm saying) is that you replaced into a slot that was indeed towny and I can't not townread it emotionally when it replaced out. but you are not towny. you are talking about easy things for scum to point out, and I agree with poseidon you look opportunistic.

if you're town, re-read your gameday with the idea that I might be town and you'll see how bad you're playing. I'm trying to reach out here, but I need your help.

[Toranaga]

if you're town, re-read your gameday with the idea that I might be town and you'll see how bad you're playing.

I wasn't aware that catching up on the game and being transparent with my reads is considered playing badly. Have you read some of the posts from Manatee? Can you not see how others might consider your slot scummy?

What are your thoughts on A50?

I didn't read manatee. I'm sure it's a pretty awful ISO.

A50 isn't someone I can read with any accuracy due to his having a mathblade-ish playstyle and I never truly grasp where he is coming from.

I will read the guy at some point if I'm allowed to

[Toranaga]

I didn't read manatee. I'm sure it's a pretty awful ISO.

If you're not calling my read on Manatee bad then what is bad about my play?

your reads on both me and fromage are pretty bad and have been talked about at length by myself, yes?

[Toranaga]

reading inferno now and I have hard time believing this angrily replaced out while L-1 as actual scum cause it'd be incredibly dickish thing to do

but I'm not townreading wh4t. for all the reasons someone could probably come up with for scumreading me, "catching" me in a "scumslip" feels disingenuous alongside the way she is pushing eragon.

Hmmm...

I don't think Wh4t ever was pushing me? l

I goofed, I confused your name with fromage's for some reason

if you read my other posts you'd know that but here we are

[Toranaga]

Nah it's just Tora

revisit this tomorrow @wh4t

feels a lot like scum trying to put a nail in my coffin to end the gameday already cause he got a mislynch

[Toranaga]

It's not a difficult game to size up imo. Townread the obvious townies claim a null read on the few difficult to read and stick the rest in the scum pool.

They each want attention away from themselves. Tora's play makes little sense if he townreads Inferno for real. Just reads like someone who wants the slot (wh4t) to be lynched but doesn't want to seem too eager. At the same time if inferno flips townie he looks like a genius for 'townreading' the replace-out.

I mean the case hinges on Inferno being town tbh but if inferno slot does flip town it's open and shut.

who's obviously towny and why?

what do you mean by me wanting attention away from myself? did anything in my posting so far give you the impression I'm trying to stay under the radar?

I'm giving wh4t every opportunity to defend herself and I'm trying to understand where she is coming from. are you townreading wh4t?

[Toranaga]

Hmm. I can't think of a reason why scum would claim VT the way Tora just did. But Manatee was scummy and I don't like him keeping his vote on a town read and don't think there's a better option so I'll stay there. I think he's more likely scum than wh4t. Game....meh. I could see him being scum but don't feel strongly enough about that to switch at this time.

well you see, I'm keeping the vote on wh4t for the same reason you're keeping the vote on me. there's no better option so we're both staying where we were.

[Toranaga]

Easy claim, not convinced.

READS

Burger/A50/Buj

Egg/Tor/Eragon

Fro/Wh4t

if only I had randed PR instead.

Perhaps you missed my declaration, but I did say I was gonna hammer a

VT

claim (I do feel safer bc it's guaranteed to not hit a TPR, and if it's on scum then double the prize for half the price).

Do you stand by this? Would you care to make it an official explicit claim?

I'm VT, yes

look, can you just let me have the time to work on this, then? I think the setup is way too townsided anyway and I have 0 ego when it comes to subbing into a slot everyone wants to kill, but I have a fairly poor handle of the game and I wanna solve it cause that's the stuff I'm passionate in doing.

just hold on tonight. let me work, I'm finishing something somewhere else then I'm gonna be here doing this.

[Toranaga]

I'm travelling tomorrow anyway so we're resolving my slot tonight. I accept it and am at peace with it. just give me 4-5 hours please.

[Toranaga]

I ended up going out then getting to bed and nothing was read up rip

lynch wh4t tomorrow

I really tried my hardest with the time I had available

:* :* glgl

[Toranaga]

I'm going to let you answer your own question there pal. I
Here's my updated reads based on recent interactions:

{A50, BuJaber, Eragon, GnB}
{Fromage, Egg}
{Toranaga, Poseidon}

Pretty happy with the L-1 and ready to see a flip but I would like to hear Tor's efforting before someone hammers.

"they're wolfreading me so they must be a wolf!"

poseidon's interactions with wh4t are pretty villagery from poseidon's side and if wh4t was even remotely trying to solve the game instead of OMGUSing everyone who scumreads her she'd have picked up on that.

this is openwolfing and it's really really poor effort at that.

[Toranaga]

I'm home fellas

god this day was long

I'll be here in 20 to talk things out

ftr I never "rolled over", I just knew I was going to travel when I was already L-1 so I claimed and gave my last words cause I didn't think I'd live to see the thread open whenever I returned

[Toranaga]

To reiterate actually for visibility:

WH4T: do you still stand by your claim of Tor scumslipping?

Yes.

I used "you" as a figure of speech to convey my thoughts about the setup

I have no idea what you're doing this game wh4t

[Toranaga]

Tor I forgot to mention I disagree entirely the posideons reads are OMGUS

I never said they are. this is wh4t's stance on it and not mine. I think poseidon has been towny throughout.

[Toranaga]

I really am gonna stick to my gut right now on this, i have a feeling the Tor lynch is gonna happen

I’m surprised the hammer hasn’t dropped yet actually

This is gross. If the Tor lynch is going to happen and you're surprised he hasn't been hammered and you scum read him, the only reason you would be vanity voting elsewhere is that you're scum and not wanting to be on a villa wagon or voting your buddy.

vanity voting? you're L-1 too my dear

[Toranaga]

@Tor: Your 20 now over 60. Your time is up, my friend. Please make sure you post everything you want to in the next 45 minutes. If you're town it will help us all (I still remember we had complimentary reads in the last game we played together were I was SRing one scum and hard TRing the other and you were SRing the one I TR and TRing the one I SR, so believe me when I say I will take your reads into consideration if you flip green). If you're scum though feel free to save your effort cuz I

am

hammering you and then I'm not gonna look back at anything you said.

@Burger: The "safer bet" is to always lynch the claimed VT on D1. You

know

a TPR doesn't claim VT @L-1, so we're guaranteed a no TPR flip for starters. It also prevents running up a real TPR who will then have to claim and be outed unnecessarily. So, on D1.. always vote the scummiest player, and if they claim a VT just lynch them.

that's a big paragraph about many things that don't matter and aren't relevant to my alignment or a read on my slot.

[Toranaga]

I really am gonna stick to my gut right now on this, i have a feeling the Tor lynch is gonna happen

I’m surprised the hammer hasn’t dropped yet actually

This is gross. If the Tor lynch is going to happen and you're surprised he hasn't been hammered and you scum read him, the only reason you would be vanity voting elsewhere is that you're scum and not wanting to be on a villa wagon or voting your buddy.

vanity voting? you're L-1 too my dear

I believe I have 3 votes which would be L-2. Did I miss a vote?

I probably misread the votes

what do you think of how A50 is treating my slot? or bujaber? they're both, much like you, set on just getting me lynched and while bujaber is at least reasoning to how manatee has played, I have no idea why A50 is strong scumreading me and his last paragraph to me says nothing about his read on my alignment.

are you scumreading me for any reason outside of manatee and using "you" as a figure of speech?

[Toranaga]

@Tor: Your 20 now over 60. Your time is up, my friend. Please make sure you post everything you want to in the next 45 minutes. If you're town it will help us all (I still remember we had complimentary reads in the last game we played together were I was SRing one scum and hard TRing the other and you were SRing the one I TR and TRing the one I SR, so believe me when I say I will take your reads into consideration if you flip green). If you're scum though feel free to save your effort cuz I

am

hammering you and then I'm not gonna look back at anything you said.

@Burger: The "safer bet" is to always lynch the claimed VT on D1. You

know

a TPR doesn't claim VT @L-1, so we're guaranteed a no TPR flip for starters. It also prevents running up a real TPR who will then have to claim and be outed unnecessarily. So, on D1.. always vote the scummiest player, and if they claim a VT just lynch them.

that's a big paragraph about many things that don't matter and aren't relevant to my alignment or a read on my slot.

.........and???????

it doesn't sit right to me that he is talking about whatever past game we had to say he'll respect my reads after I die, and nothing about the actual game we're playing.

[Toranaga]

For the love of god Tor read the writing on the wall and post your reads

my thoughts are pretty clearly laid out across my ISO and I have no sympathy for doing things when people are threatening to hammer me instead.

I have you, fromage, poseidon and to a smaller extent, egg, as townreads

wh4t is a good villager with nuanced, intelligent reads that come from a sensible place and not anything she displayed in this game. it's obvious to me and will be obvious to you once I flip.

a50 and bujaber are null as I never ISO'd them and I don't take the things they're saying in real time as alignment indicative, although I am very uneasy with how hard they're both trying to get me killed without reasoning with me or anything I'm doing here

so this is where I'm at.

[Toranaga]

are you scumreading me for any reason outside of manatee and using "you" as a figure of speech?

Can I add: not gamesolving, not assertive, not having fun, stalling.

I never stalled

I never have fun when I'm L-1

I'm as assertive as the strength of my reads

I'm solving way more than you and everyone else ever since I started posting

take this as a learning experience for when I flip. if you're town, and I hope to god you're not, you've lined yourself up to be mislynched by aggressively wrong tunneling me, and let the gameday be an easy coast as wolves just watch town eat themselves up.

[Toranaga]

I'm the 3rd poster in a game that started 2 weeks ago and I only started posting yesterday

"not gamesolving" my ass, wh4t

[Toranaga]

GNB, why do you think it's a "weird" gambit to claim VT as VT when at L-1? what part of claiming VT is a gambit, anyway?

[Toranaga]

@Tor: Your 20 now over 60. Your time is up, my friend. Please make sure you post everything you want to in the next 45 minutes. If you're town it will help us all (I still remember we had complimentary reads in the last game we played together were I was SRing one scum and hard TRing the other and you were SRing the one I TR and TRing the one I SR, so believe me when I say I will take your reads into consideration if you flip green). If you're scum though feel free to save your effort cuz I

am

hammering you and then I'm not gonna look back at anything you said.

@Burger: The "safer bet" is to always lynch the claimed VT on D1. You

know

a TPR doesn't claim VT @L-1, so we're guaranteed a no TPR flip for starters. It also prevents running up a real TPR who will then have to claim and be outed unnecessarily. So, on D1.. always vote the scummiest player, and if they claim a VT just lynch them.

that's a big paragraph about many things that don't matter and aren't relevant to my alignment or a read on my slot.

It wasn't meant to be related to your alignment and/or the read on your slot. It was a reminder that IF you flip Town I will look back at what you said.

before you hammer

why do you think I'm scum?

[Toranaga]

take this as a learning experience for when I flip. if you're town, and I hope to god you're not, you've lined yourself up to be mislynched by aggressively wrong tunneling me, and let the gameday be an easy coast as wolves just watch town eat themselves up.

I am town. And I can't take your concern for my slot seriously with your vote on me. I will have no sympathy if you're town because you basically gave up.

UNVOTE:

oh why do you have to be towny now

listen, right. I never "basically gave up", I just wouldn't be able to post for the majority of the day and since I was L-1 already I wanted to make myself ready for it, post thoughts, claim and let it happen. that isn't giving up, that's just the only pro-town action I can take when I'm not gonna be around. I couldn't work the game as planned, that's on me. but you just accused me of stalling, yes? claiming VT and assuring the gameday will end instead of having people go around in circles wondering if they should hold until I do claim, is the opposite of stalling. I did the best I could with what I was randed and how many people, you particularly, were behaving around me.

now check your own ISO and the reasons why you're pushing people. you'll notice you're doing a whole lot of OMGUS pushing whenever someone suspects you. your scumreads, afaict, are all the people that voted you. why are bujaber and a50 so high in your reads list? I don't understand why you're scumreading poseidon either... his interaction with you felt really pure on his end.

on top of that, you first started pushing me on a ridiculous "scumslip" read that's disingenuous from you and you have to think people are stupid to believe that's something you believe in. that's how you started treating my slot and now you're daring to say you're unconcerned with my slot because I'm voting you. why should I be concerned with your slot when you started the game with disingenuous stupid tunneling that makes no sense?

[Toranaga]

@tora pre-flip post?

yeah I was replying to wh4t there

I'm already at peace with getting hammered so that's whatever

nice timing for you to just appear here to do it when I'm trying to talk things out tho

I think wh4t's unvote was towny at any rate

[Toranaga]

@Tor: WHO IS SCUM if you're Town? I don't want to go through your ISO when I'm not even sure of your alignment. Nothing of it will exactly *sparkle* for me anyway if I don't know your alignment. So, give me a lynch target with a good reason and I may buy it. Your AtE really annoys me.

when have I AtE'd? I'm trying as hard as I can to keep this as deadpan as possible

[Toranaga]

UNVOTE:

If this flips scum I'll feel like I got a new stain on my reputation (which isn't "a great scum hunter" anyway).

@Tor: In the last game (of Neighborhoods) you eventually did come up with someone who you were confident was scum. Do you have any similar feelings here? What's your read on GnB??

I was actually pretty confident in wh4t being scum and reasoned why at length before she unvoted me, which is a layer of playing the game I'm not sure she has a wolf. I think wolf!wh4t would probably already be bothered enough with the gameday going on to never remove the chance of getting me killed here.

OTOH she looks absolutely awful when I flip so this could be a calculated move

anyway, I'm torn here. it's d1 and scum is playing well.

GNB is likely town, I think I gave some thoughts on him yesterday. I could ISO him to give more detail to this.

[Toranaga]

He didn’t buy it and it totally does

That and when you said to not resubmit it’s a bit obvious

I actually bought it, I didn't remember eragon was voting me

[Toranaga]

I also keep forgetting eragon is in this game

[Toranaga]

@Tor: WHO IS SCUM if you're Town? I don't want to go through your ISO when I'm not even sure of your alignment. Nothing of it will exactly *sparkle* for me anyway if I don't know your alignment. So, give me a lynch target with a good reason and I may buy it. Your AtE really annoys me.

when have I AtE'd? I'm trying as hard as I can to keep this as deadpan as possible

When you show anger over being lynched or being about to be lynched I consider that AtE.

We're not at war here and you're not gonna really die. It's just a game and -obviously- you are well respected and loved here, so I don't see why you've been too emotional of late. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe you're genuinely upset for some reason, and if that's the case then I'm sorry.

but when was I too emotional? of course I'm bothered and of course subbing into a slot that's decided as the lynch before I even got to post anything fucking sucks, right? but I'm not appealing to anyone's emotions and I'm confused why you're reading me as someone who is doing that. especially on MS where people legitimately AtE to the point of subbing out, like already happened this game...

[Toranaga]

@tora pre-flip post?

yeah I was replying to wh4t there

I'm already at peace with getting hammered so that's whatever

nice timing for you to just appear here to do it when I'm trying to talk things out tho

I think wh4t's unvote was towny at any rate

do you still stand by this>

I thought I was hammered so yeah it looked weird

reaction testing me was pretty towny though. you have no reason to do that as scum.

[Toranaga]

wh4t are you still around?

[Toranaga]

Yeah.

are you upset with me or something? you've become very nonchalant all of a sudden

[Toranaga]

Yeah.

are you upset with me or something? you've become very nonchalant all of a sudden

No, I'm hungover and disappointed that I misread your slot.

Why do you townread GNB he seems slimy?

I was initially townreading him for engaging in metadiving and trying to come up with full wolfteam combinations as hard as he was as early as he was

I liked how he evaluated my slot and his push/interactions with you. him coming back to the "scumslip" post and get you to respond if you still stood by it before voting you reads as a real evaluation. maybe you can't see it from where you stand because it's pushing you on things you believe in, but it resonates strongly and makes a lot of sense to me.

why is he being slimy IYO apart from pushing you?

[Toranaga]

I'm strong townreading wh4t's last post

[Toranaga]

I just get a weird feeling that he's manipulating people and knows people's alignments.

Ill look into him properly later. You know it's easier for me to read people who push me. I thought he was town until he said he was surprised you weren't hammered yet, and his failed attempt to hammer you.

can you expand on bolded? it doesn't have to be now since you're hungover

[Toranaga]

I never evaluated bujaber past his wolfread on my slot

lemme ISO

[Toranaga]

I'll do it when I'm up

[Toranaga]

I'm town and I finally got the tide turn off me so let's not do that

I'm gonna read this entire game when I'm back from taking wife to work

I agree wh4t is probably town

[Toranaga]

reading the game now gl me

[Toranaga]

You’re all wrong, burgers are obviously the best because they can have both eggs or cheese on them!
VOTE: GameNBurger

Also, I have never played with anyone in this game before except BuJaber, so this should be interesting. (I swear my meta has improved, BuJaber.)

I like the last line from inferno cause it's open self metaing in a way I rarely see from scum until they're being pushed.

Why not eggs AND cheese?

Conveniently enough you're neither.

Trying to avoid votes?

VOTE: Eragon

I don't understand what eragon was doing that felt like trying to avoid votes.

I'm assuming this is an actual push and not a continuation of RVS voting, so can you elaborate on both this and why you thought inferno was doing the same thing?

Haha, time for discussion generation!

BuJaber is prob a VT.

Post 25 is weird enough to garner some sus.

GameNBurgers lack of appearance is interesting, but NAI due to no daytalk.

bolded is awkward and reads as TMI, although it could be due to inferno actually randing town PR. I don't think a town VT would ever make that read at any rate.

Ok, vote stays.

wolfy

I really like how inferno phrased his egg vote on #33 and share similar feelings about egg's posting as per this vote.

Because I find it’s a good way to get out of RVS. Helps me judge interactions and gather info. It hasn’t failed me yet, and I doubt it will start now.
Egg is scum now btw.
VOTE: Egg

Negative. No good reason to speculate on who is or isn't a power role.

egg not reacting to being scumread is drudgesiren.gif.

manatee's posting is awful. jesus christ.

Because I find it’s a good way to get out of RVS. Helps me judge interactions and gather info. It hasn’t failed me yet, and I doubt it will start now.
Egg is scum now btw.
VOTE: Egg

I was reffering to you making guesses on roles. Thats almost always proscum behavior, I'm not gonna push you for it tho.

Do you not have any scum reads yet? If not, why no vote on Inferno?

why would he vote inferno? he just said he won't push him for it, which means this isn't something manatee is wolfreading, yes?

locking inferno as town after #42

I'd be scumreading manatee after #44 very hard and never letting it go. it's always easy to see the towny things your slot was doing before replacing in but manatee's early posting is shockingly bad.

but this is what happens when toranaga sama subs into your game. I save even the wolfiest town from guaranteed lynch.

toranaga bless.

ok moving on

Preliminary reads:

BuJ is Town
Egg is Town
Manatee likely Town

And if Inferno flips red the other is very likely to be GameNBurger (fits the description as the RVS vote of the p AND the silent p who didn't get to vote in RVS. In fact, he never even posted yet).

inferno wolf, egg town? manatee town?

how are you townreading manatee? also how are you townreading egg? he did nothing towny, did he?

a50 is a big headache.

Ys, it is very clear that you are trying to paint me as scum for something that is not actually that scummy.
VOTE: A50

+

I agree inferno's VT read is not protown behaviour, and it certainly reads as possible TMI, but the way both A50 and egg are jumping on it feel like scum picking an easy thing to push for because they're spotting something that can be construed as scum motivated. I don't really know what to expect from A50 cause his playstyle is highly mechanical and sort of tone deaf, but this doesn't look good.

#57 and #58 from GNB are highly descriptive with little original additions and piling on inferno feels opportunistic.

I like #64 from egg.

reads after p3: inferno is definitely town for early posting. very nuanced, picking up on good things, pushing the right people at the right times and mindmelding with me a whole lot. I'm already strong townready wh4t after yesterday but this helps solidifying the read.

I don't like egg's early posts but #64 provides a good reasoning for his vote on inferno and I appreciate and share his read on game's posts.

I already have eragon as town after yesterday and think his early stuff was ~fine

so inferno/egg/eragon is an early towncore

A50 and game are scummy

VOTE: almost50

putting this here while I read p4-10

[Toranaga]

I think BuJaber is town, but it's not because he reminded the Mod something was missing in the OP.

Why don't you tell us why you think BuJaber is town? Is it because he doesn't want to get townread for asking about the setup?

Basically. It's the way he's handled inferno in general. Just all out attacking the idea. Going after the guy who is calling him confirmed town. It looks like town who sees bad logic and is calling it out. That said, he's voting manatee over inferno so it's not like he's doing anything that would remove inferno from the game, making it a relatively safe town cred play for scum. That's why he's not my strongest town read. It's enough that I don't want to Lynch him today though. You voted Eragon for fluff posting. What do you think of his content posts? Why does the fluff outweigh those?

very nuanced thoughts on bujaber and highly unlikely to come from mafia.

@BuJ: Yeah, it started like a mechanical read, but his reaction was doubling down on it rather than acknowledging he made a mistake. IMHO, a townie response was to stop when he said you could be a PR still and say spoke too fast or something. But he went on against odds (and logic) to try and convince me "likely VT" is indeed interchangeable with "likely Town".

there was never a point in inferno's posting where he is casting shade on bujaber and he explained quite clearly how his "likely VT" read is on the unlikelihood of bujaber being either PR or scum. it's not a good read and certainly fakeable from bujaber, but his thoughts are clearly laid out in a very sensible way. IDK how backtracking on his statement is a "towny response"? clearly inferno believes what he is posting here.

GNB still casting shade on inferno in #96. "flailing even harder" is an uncharitable description of inferno's posting, and "flailing" is a vague enough verb that can mean anything and isn't descriptive of inferno's behaviour. he is not engaging with inferno or progressing any way with his read either.

on #98 GNB metadives manatee and my initial impression is that this is a really towny thing to be doing, but there's no conclusion or new take on manatee, and being this early it actually feels forced, like GNB is trying to get town credit by metadiving when he doesn't have any reason to.

Conflicted about burger. On the one hand it does seem like he's jumping to conclusions based on little evidence but that's slso a whole lot of effort just to build a case on inferno who is lynchbait frankly.

if inferno is lynchbait, then why are you not defending him?

I'll continue this in a bit

[Toranaga]

I finished my reread and have a

completely

different view of the game now. I think scum are in Eragon/Fromage/Poseidon (in that order).

VOTE: Eragon

Eragon has been doing some townie stuff indeed, but taking a look at the bigger picture they seem to have been done for show. He often tried to feed the fire (especially on the Inferno/Manatee slots) but stayed uncommitted (by vote) for most of the time. If you take his posts separately you will probably TR him for each single one of them, but combined they didn't give the same impression. Also 377 for example is scummy enough on it's own.


I know this one's gonna be met by some strong opposition by many who have been TRing Eragon hard, and while I have played him before I do not have a strong meta on him either, so this is a read based purely on his play/posts in this thread.

If this flips scum then the cross voting with Fromage feels off. However, Poseidon being totally unavailable if late gives me the irks too.

P-edit: Oh, well. Tor caught me red handed. What can I do? *Shrug*

you can respond to my questions and thoughts about you!

what do you make of eragon fake hammering and then proceeding to clear me yesterday? I don't see the scum motivation in doing it.

[Toranaga]

I'm happy lynching in A50, Poseidon today.

VOTE: A50

I was under the impression you townread A50

what changed?

[Toranaga]

@Inferno - my statement is missing the words 'as town'. Inferno is lynchbait as town. He could be scum. But honestly as unhelpful as his posting has been (mainly defending himself) gun to my head I'd say he's town here. He feels attacked and spends all his time and effort defending himself. I'm not adept at reading someone like him because he's the type that makes it really difficult to townread. He distracts himself and distracts everyone and gets emotional.
Now granted I haven't seem his scum game but given that happens with him as town you have to really try and gauge his overall tone/motivations.

For example earlier I thought he was maybe buddying me. But considering he is attacking pretty much anyone who critiques or votes for him, there doesn't seem to be any interest in making friends. Unless he really thinks that if he convinces me he's town that I alone can change everyone's mind. That would be hilariously wrong as I'm rarely a town leader in any game, let alone in a playerbase that includes A50 and a few 5+ year veterans. So if it's not buddying then does that line of thinking and bad logic regarding my question to the mod make sense from scum pov? I don't really think so. Scum would be more self-conscious about using bad logic like that.

that's (mostly) a great post with a strong case for town!inferno. I can see why wh4t is so positive you're town.

Oho
Burger has scumslipped in an attempt to get rid of me
He doesn’t know that the only scumgame I’ve ever played is one of the marathon games from last month. (A fact that both drives me crazy and I am very proud of because it gives me very good townmeta)
I have never been scumpartners with Manatee, not have I been partners with anyone else in the regular style of game.
VOTE: Burger

Join me, brothers. I have found the true scum!

Yeah I stand by my vote.

Semi reply to Jaber, phone posting so shortish reply. I’m sensing a good depth of logic with Burger, and a solid understanding of the game. Can’t say if that’s pro-town read but it makes me a little confident

what are you talking about? who has good logic and solid understanding? inferno? if that's the case, then how are those things wolfy? is this sarcasm? IDGI

I like fromage's #144 a whole lot. it's a good case for game!scum with points I agree with

{BuJaBer, Fromage, Almost50}
{Egg, poseidon}
{GameNBurger}
{Inferno, Manatee}

preliminary reads

Mine is:

{Egg, Eragon}
{BuJaBer}
{Fromage}
{poseidon}
{Inferno, Manatee, GameNBurger}

@A50 I thought you had manatee as town earlier. what changed?

[Toranaga]

what do you make of eragon fake hammering and then proceeding to clear me yesterday? I don't see the scum motivation in doing it.

You claimed VT. Scum don't want to lynch a VT, or -at least- not before outing a PR. "Let's switch to someone else and see what they claim".. then if that's a PR .. WELL DONE. If not, then they don't need to worry about two slots, which helps when deciding on the NK. Simple.

I haven't

completely

ruled you out as scum. I just think it's very unlikely for you to be, and I'm willing to try and work with you for today in an attempt to actually lynch scum.

that actually makes sense in this setting

both scum would have to be very deeply townread for it to be better than just taking the mislynch, though

but yeah I see what you're saying. I didn't think of this angle.

[Toranaga]

I'm going To go down In list order from the initial post
These are gonna work thru the logic and past actions in the game assuming the pairing as the assumption

Spoiler: Inferno/A50

Inferno/A50

Inferno in Post 42 pushes back after mistakingly thinking a50 was saying he was the BEST wagon, this interaction seems odd to me unless Inferno REALLY hates being bussed and is paranoid about it
Post 45 follows the already budding suggestions that Inferno is PRHunting scum and saying Infernos response in 42 is bad, could be A50 pushing the eject button on Inferno and bussing HARD, then sets Me up as a potential sequential lynch based on my lack of activity
A50 arguing with inferno after this point while inferno fails to grasp how pointing to VT's in particular is PR hunting, This feels too oddly genuine for me to begin to attribute any of this fighting to scum motivation
Everyone continues discussing Inferno, A50 directly responds to Buj with his reasons for his push in Post 92
A50 questions me to put my money where my mouth is, maybe trying to set me up? Either way I responeded he might have still pegged me as scum partners? A50 also excuses himself from interacting with Inferno unless he chooses to
A50 makes it clear he wants to lynch a VT today, which someone points out later that it looks like he's feeding scum strategy on how they should claim (which if you're town a50 thanks for the Delicious WIFOM), this could be A50 trying to signal to inferno how to claim as scum in this game and then excuse himself as a reason to vote out a different person if they claim VT
A50 directly responds to criticisms by futher outlining optimal town play even further in a bizarrely contradictory fashion, not understanding that on the off chance scum doesn't know it, then town would have the upper hand (okay that sentence doesn't read very well but the point is that Almost50 turned the whole thing into a big public WIFOM fest for all sides of the town to enjoy)
A50 does follow this up with a series of explanations that makes the strategy sound pretty sound, although the WIFOM of it all means we still really can't act on that sequence of events happening
A50 dissapears for a while and then comes back to supply a scum game and then defend the usefullness of L-1, but also takes the direct question from Eragon to vote me and take some pressure off the wagon
He also emphasizes Inferno should claim

Thoughts:

While I could see a picture that A50 is simply hard bussing, a lot of it would depend on setting me up as a target and I don't think A50 is actually doing that. It seems A50 is playing with a lot of his thoughts close to the belt, so perhaps I need to do a meta dive to see if this is usually the case. I'm not really sure this pairing would make 100% sense unless A50 is the most enthusiastic busser yet. I also don't feel like Inferno's reaction would make sense for this to be a scum pairing either.

Spoiler: Inferno/Fromage

Inferno/Fromage:

Fromage lays in the background and remains inactive until 82 and doesn't really touch Inferno directly at first, but begins to ask him a question and praise an early criticism of Inferno.
Fromage continues to ask questions of other players as well as calls out A50's earlier post as feeding scum strategy.
He asks If i'm fine with Inferno dying. After Inferno's response, I reply yes.
He also asks if I changed my mind on being uncomfortable with fast Day 1 Lynches, I don't answer this question due to phoneposting. If you're curious, when I mentioned being uncomfortable it was before I was locked in to the idea that Inferno is scum. Inferno responed terribly, and I got a lot more comfortable with lynching Inferno whenever.
Fromage clarifies his defense with Eragon, then outlines a case for me being scum due to inconsistency.
Fromage says hes busy and promises to read more into Inferno on Tuesday, asks Eragon to contribute his thoughts on my L-1 vote on inferno, also argues against his L-2 favorability.

Thoughts:

Fromage hasn't touched on a lot of players in the game, he's only sort of interacted with Inferno and argued a little bit with Eragon. He asks direct questions but I'm not sure of his whole thoughts if he has them together yet. I could see this all being scum behavior that makes sense when inferno is so publicly flailing but I also don't see why he wouldn't have simply backed the manatee wagon as a response. Setting my wagon up just seems way to town for me to really buy into Fromage being scum

Spoiler: Inferno/Eragon

Inferno/Eragon

Eragon writes semi wall posts both bussing his partner while also earning towncred and drawing suspiscion by questioning other posters
Eragon responds to some small criticisms and then continues to analyze anything he can, and must be the best at impersonating town
Eragon does ask for votes to remain on L-2, perhaps as a cover to buy inferno some time
Okay theres really not much to say here

Thoughts:

So Eragon is probably my strongest townread and I really don't see this pair happening, and I dont really see him as a user that could relentlessly bus with a smile, I seriously had a hard time picturing his actions motivated by scum at all

Spoiler: Inferno/Egg

Inferno/Egg

Egg Takes a super early opportunity to bus inferno at the literal first possible moment
Also questions inferno's commitment to vote, could be a trap set, as when inferno changes his vote he votes manatee for flip flopping
Egg townreads Buj, but keeps his reasons close to the belt at first but explains it, saying He liked that Buj called out inferno's crappy townread on Buj, this could be to try and position himself as town rather if Inferno flips scum?
Egg gets busy

Thoughts:

Egg should post more, I know he'll be back Sunday to catch up. He's really in the null/town lean for me for now but i want to see more thoughts on the recent stuff

Spoiler: Inferno/Manatee

Inferno/Manatee

Soft pushes Inferno then flips to hard pushing when egg calls him out on it. He later townreads eragon and scumreads Inferno
He asks for inferno meta
That is literally all that has happened.

Thoughts:

This is hardcore lurking or extreme activity. Its getting to the point where town or scum I'd much rather he'd replace out. I know this is supposed to be about the persepctive scum partners but its getting ridiculous. If he is scum, his behavior makes complete sense but ultimately his behavior is such a nuisance. Ugh. To reiterate:

Manatee PLEASE consider subbing out. There's no shame in being busy, and if you're lurking this hard I have hard time seeing how this is strategy

Spoiler: Inferno/Poseidon

Inferno/Poseidon

No you know what, You're worse than Manatee. Get back in the game and do a proper catchup or sub out PLEASE.

Poseidon needs to catch up or sub out. This is just inactivity and its really annoying.

Spoiler: Inferno/Buj

Inferno/Buj

Buj calls out inferno on his bad read as a bus attempt
Buj runs up the Manatee wagon to try and give his scum buddy a chance without fully unbussing Inferno, Puts Manatee at L-2
Swivels to Inferno to being lynchbait to dismiss the wagon
Buj really starts participating in the game and asking direct questions while sprinkiling in some reads here and there, also supports an Inferno claim, but leaves inferno's name out of the reads in 171

Thoughts:

I could see this pairing happening. He feels like he's silently keeping an associative distance from inferno, which feels weird. While I also shared the Manatee suspicion earlier in the game, at this point Manatee is merely a few more posts worse than Poseidon. To me, the more time passes on, Mantee's participation has not stayed proportional and reads more like someone who isn't even playing the game. While yes Manatee has done a very scummy thing, its arguably the ONLY thing he's done the whole game. That doesn't make him unscummy, but my gut is telling me he just needs to be replaced.

Man that took longer than expected

This post made me realize we're dealing with two extraordinarly absent players (egg cuts it close but has a promised date of return and catch up we can hold him to) which makes trying to find second scum REALLY more difficult

I'll be busy for a while but shoot any questions if you have any

As a reminder all the dropdowns are fabricating a perspective assuming the pairing is true, not an argument or accusation of whats occured; this is more like a list of notes

Alright peace i'll back later

ok this is never scum

wh4t/bujaber/game/eragon?/egg? is my townpile

I liked fromage's case on game but he hasn't been active otherwise and the null pile has to go somewhere.

that leaves A50 and poseidon

I just ISO'd poseidon and have no idea what possessed me to townread it

[Toranaga]

VOTE: Poseidon

I also feel like Tor isn't really reading the game and interacting with me like I'd expect him to but I don't want to believe he would call me shit as scum just to avoid being lynched. I think it's better not to touch egg or Fromage today but I would like Fromage to catch up soon.

we had a shaky start

[Toranaga]

VOTE: poseidon

[Toranaga]

I'm v/la this weekend

[Toranaga]

hopefully this will be a closed thread with a wolf flip when I'm home

[Toranaga]

Alright Poseidon train! Let me get all caught up before you set me ablaze please.

this never happened

catch up before we set you ablaze please

[Toranaga]

IDK how long I'll be home and able to post this weekend but I'm here now so yay

I'm resigned to being resolved today and think it's fine. I agree with it being mechanically proper play as no town PR has claimed yet.

[Toranaga]

I was under the impression you were townreading me, wh4t. what changed?

[Toranaga]

I got caught up in something but still around

wh4t: WRT poseidon's posting near hammer, it looks genuine. his posting otherwise has been pretty poor, he only showed up to defend himself and promised reads he never made. he is probably never town PR if he is town cause he just invited the lynch without claiming or softing anything as well. if you're legitimately townreading poseidon for that, you're disregarding two weeks of mafia playing to townread fakeable emotions someone is having near lynch. his activity is the most telling thing about his slot and it's wolfy. poseidon is definitely around lurking because he conveniently shows up when he is a wagon, and then he disappears again when heat gets off him. there's no interest in solving the game. he is voting your slot since inferno was playing and never reevaluated on it, which is pretty telling.

[Toranaga]

I just want to end the day now tbh. This game is frustrating. You would be the best info lynch though so sorry if you're town, I would've loved for us to own this game. Watching the people who resisted the Poseidon lynch and people give reasons for lynching you will be very telling in later days. If you do flip scum then that's just gravy as you've given info that hard clears Poseidon and A50. I'd also think it's very unlikely Egg is your buddy too.

that's fine.

[Toranaga]

AHHHHHH WHY DI I MINDMELD GAME SO MUCH!!!!


<also, tor, I’m sorry if I’m being a shit and you’ve already done this, but can you post a scum bracket or read brackets just so it can help see your thoughts if you are lynched and flip town>

I think I have yeah, but I can summarize for you the best way my memory serves me rn

wh4t is never scum and should never be re-evaluated. there's so much stuff clearing her. I think you should re-read inferno as well, and the way people started to pile on him d1, cause I'm pretty sure there's at least one if not both wolves there. the more inferno spoke about his VT read on bujaber, the more I realised it was actually a pretty strong towntell that he was doing it. read bujaber's case on why inferno's VT read makes him town. it's very strong and made me appreciate bujaber's posting in this game a whole lot. wh4t's emotions all feel genuine and she did two things wrt me this gameday that I hope are outside her scum range: unvoting me when A50 was ready to hammer me, and clear me because I called her play bad. second reason looks thin but there are levels of towny thinking/self awareness/evaluating my play that's hopefully not something wh4t can even think about saying as a wolf.

I tried my best to actually come across a townread of your early posting but I just didn't feel it. I don't think you'd ever fake a hammer on a towny as a wolf and then proceed to clear their reaction to it. it'd be an incredibly dumb, risky and unnecessary thing for you to do, as it removes a mislynch and isn't even read through as necessarily towny. afaict I'm the only one doing it. you're engaging and never came across as scummy to me so you're fine in my book.

I was sure bujaber was town after reading the thread but I forgot what parts of his posting I liked other than towncasing inferno when inferno was near lynched. not because he townread mislynch bait cause any wolf can do it for towncred, but the reasoning was spot on and resonated very strongly with me when he did it. I don't like that bujaber took so fucking long to write that post and defend inferno, and even when he did it felt half heartedly so, but it's nothing objective and just pingy feelings I had. his tunneling me throughout is annoying but bujaber literally just did the same thing in a game I was ridiculously obviously always town and he just rolled with scumreading me cause of my slot, so it wouldn't be the first time he did it.

I'm gonna roll with gamer almost never being scum with how much he wordbombed the thread. I don't townread anything he said, but I also didn't read everything he posted and that ridiculously long associative reads with inferno being scum and likely partners is ~never something scum writes. there's some actual great thread awareness in that posting and the w/w pairing thoughts made a lot of sense to me.

so scum is in not those. I don't have strong cases for anyone being scum, but inferno and A50's posting are the most alarming ones and I think fromage and egg have both been fine when they're here, just not posting enough to be higher townreads.

so yeah this is where I'm at. I tried my best, guys. I really did.

[Toranaga]

Amished tell? See...Manatee and Tora's play have both been so scummy. I just can't get over that VT claim.

IDK what an amished tell is, but I'm assuming it refers to calling my slot's posting scummy. it was scummy posting though. it looked wonky and deserved death, not replace out.

how the fuck is claiming VT scummy though? you do understand the setup, right? I was trying to avoid saying this because it just gives scum the proper play here, but since I'm going down anyway: scum has to 100% always PR claim at L-1. if scum gets lynched d1 and didn't even out town PR while going down, the game is essentially over unless they get lucky with hitting PR with the NK. there will be so much information in the thread next gameday and possibly 3 lock clears on top of the NK. so no, you're wrong, my claim isn't scummy.

can you tell me why you thought it was scummy though? seems like a random thought to have.

[Toranaga]

Thank you Tor


Honestly I feel bad about lynching ou rn because i am pretty confident that you are town
Ima look stupid if you flip scum, but right now I would actually prefer someone else

it's just mafiascum. every other game I sub in late (cause I'm a masochist like that), I get to read these horribly poor early lynches as the wagoned player gets to be the towniest slot in the game by far but no one wants to do anything. IDK why that happens so often but there's definitely this element of not wanting to look stupid that may influence some players to not express what they genuinely think.

I'm never afraid of looking stupid and I don't think that's a good mentality to have when you're playing town. being honest and following your gut are your greatest tools. you'll sometimes be wrong, you'll sometimes be right, but you should never look back at a game and realise you lost it because you were insecure about your reads. it's and advice I got from a great player and I like passing it along.

anyway I'm rambling.

[Toranaga]

The VT claim looked town to me.

o

what's scummy about me then?

[Toranaga]

I got caught up in something but still around

wh4t: WRT poseidon's posting near hammer, it looks genuine. his posting otherwise has been pretty poor, he only showed up to defend himself and promised reads he never made. he is probably never town PR if he is town cause he just invited the lynch without claiming or softing anything as well. if you're legitimately townreading poseidon for that, you're disregarding two weeks of mafia playing to townread fakeable emotions someone is having near lynch. his activity is the most telling thing about his slot and it's wolfy. poseidon is definitely around lurking because he conveniently shows up when he is a wagon, and then he disappears again when heat gets off him. there's no interest in solving the game. he is voting your slot since inferno was playing and never reevaluated on it, which is pretty telling.

I mean, I’m phoneposting unless it’s after 9pm (pacific time) and it’s a hassle to post from phone as we all know. But yeah totally call it convenient showing up. I’ve only been wagoned once now? Haven’t “disappeared” once the heat is off.

And now wh4t is just aiming at you for sake of ending d1 with no solid backing? If wh4t wasn’t scum, then why the hurry to get on a wagon? I realize I just complained about nothing happening; sue me. I’m not changing up my votes just to end the day.

you disappeared right before wh4t and a50 shifted from you and just posted again now that I cased you. so you're definitely around and you're reading but only posting to defend yourself.

also you promised to read the game and post your thoughts yes? are you going to do that?

[Toranaga]

I have to leave in an hour but I'll try to stick around before that

[Toranaga]

wh4t you still around?

[Toranaga]

I've just ISO'd bujaber again and I'm not as confidently townreading him as I was before.

I agree with his thoughts on inferno and burger. I really like how confidently and concisely he towncases both slots. but when he towncased inferno, he really never acted on it and only explained why he thought inferno was town because someone asked him. he then argued for inferno to claim, said his appeal to emotion was wolfy, and shaded eragon for townreading it. wrt gameburger, I wonder just how towny a guy like that would look to a wolf. it's such an easy read to make.

rest of the posting isn't very good. he is scumreading me because I'm "better at looking town as town" and because my play "doesn't make sense" if I'm townreading inferno, which is kind of annoying because I explained my thoughts on inferno/wh4t and I'm sure they're understandable stances. I'd expect him to interact more with my slot if at all, especially after the last game we had.

I don't like him being paranoid of eragon for thinking poseidon's AtE was towny, because not only it was clearly towny but even if it wasn't, it's undertandable to townread such things no? AtE subbing out on d1 is such a cliche towny thing to do. I expect bujaber to realise this beforehand.

[Toranaga]

wh4t and eragon are always town

[Toranaga]

I have to get going now cya folks

[Toranaga]

I got nothing here. You all are clearly missing your target and it's not like I have any ground of evidence since this is behavioral based and we're still in D1. Just because Wh4t is good at passing off as a townread doesn't excuse Inferno's actions prior. It's still the same slot.

this is pretty genuine

pedit: hi poseidon

[Toranaga]

I like your thoughts

you're wrong on wh4t

287 is... IDK what to say. wh4t is my best friend in this site and someone I love playing with. I know she subbed in for reasons, it's not cause I was reading this thread or anything.

[Toranaga]

you're probably a shitty lynch

oh well

I need to leave

[Toranaga]

VOTE: fromage

maybe?

[Toranaga]

I like your thoughts

you're wrong on wh4t

287 is... IDK what to say. wh4t is my best friend in this site and someone I love playing with. I know she subbed in for reasons, it's not cause I was reading this thread or anything.

When you get the chance, I'd like to have some reasoning thrown my way as to why she should be a townread

wh4t is never scum and should never be re-evaluated. there's so much stuff clearing her. I think you should re-read inferno as well, and the way people started to pile on him d1, cause I'm pretty sure there's at least one if not both wolves there. the more inferno spoke about his VT read on bujaber, the more I realised it was actually a pretty strong towntell that he was doing it. read bujaber's case on why inferno's VT read makes him town. it's very strong and made me appreciate bujaber's posting in this game a whole lot. wh4t's emotions all feel genuine and she did two things wrt me this gameday that I hope are outside her scum range: unvoting me when A50 was ready to hammer me, and clear me because I called her play bad. second reason looks thin but there are levels of towny thinking/self awareness/evaluating my play that's hopefully not something wh4t can even think about saying as a wolf.

quoting myself from last page

[Toranaga]

I have no read on fromage to make that vote there but poseidon just doesn't feel like a wolf so yeah

I can't read anything to know any better so ok

bye

[Toranaga]

hey yeah IDK if I buy fromage's claim, although I can see the mechanics for not claiming which PR you are being optimal, at least as far as d1 goes

this isn't dying at night though. it's not gonna be resolved like that. you guys understand why, yes?

[Toranaga]

we need to get a lynch through ASAP

[Toranaga]

eragon and gamenburger are horrible wagons

[Toranaga]

eragon

who's a wolf?

[Toranaga]

his recent posting is unbelievable yes

what do you think of bujaber?

[Toranaga]

lol yeah of course

that's perfect

let's lynch A50

[Toranaga]

or IDK, get him to claim

do we have time for this?

VOTE: A50

[Toranaga]

this isn't dying at night though. it's not gonna be resolved like that. you guys understand why, yes?

No

we

don't understand. Well, I don't anyway.

explain?

think of what visiting fromage at night entails

I don't wanna give many details but fromage has to openclaim tomorrow 100%

[Toranaga]

The whole basis for voting eragon assumes that the 4 people voting fromage have collectively directly resulted in a TPR NK.

and why are you assuming fromage is TPR?

[Toranaga]

leshrug

[Toranaga]

scum being on egg/bujaber/a50 actually resonates quite strongly with me

[Toranaga]

Mmm resin.

oh good stuff wh4t

blazed much?

[Toranaga]

pretty sure bujaber is a viable wagon

[Toranaga]

Lol, just woke up. I can see A50 being scum but I wanted to leave him until later.

Why are you guys scum reading Bu? I keep flip flopping on him.

other people got townier and he got wolfier the more we played this gameday

I either don't care or dislike everything he posted recently

[Toranaga]

most people are around, so it's a matter of who we are fine with lynching and I think most of us is fine with lynching bujaber

[Toranaga]

I'm leaving for a couple of hours

[Toranaga]

VOTE: almost50

lynch bujaber tomorrow

[Toranaga]

burger is ~never scum

[Toranaga]

WAIT

[Toranaga]

guys I'm town

bujaber what the hell are you doing?

[Toranaga]

I have no words to describe how pissed I am with this game

[Toranaga]

bujaber would probably not try this gambit as scum so it's one of two things: bujaber is the tracker, decided to track someone else and got no result, and is gambiting a fake result on me because there's really no downside if he thinks I'm mafia; OR bujaber is VT trying to draw a n2 kill.

either way fuck me, right?

I'm VT all the way

[Toranaga]

nah he can't be VT, he is asking to be counterclaimed here

bujaber is probably the tracker

oh well

[Toranaga]

wh4t, gnb, bujaber

poseidon

egg

A50

lynch A50 > egg > poseidon in that order

[Toranaga]

wh4t, gnb, bujaber

poseidon

egg

A50

lynch A50 > egg > poseidon in that order

oh we only have 2 lynches

fuck I need to fight this

bujaber mate, you're throwing. please unclaim this so we can lynch scum.

[Toranaga]

@BuJab

If he flips town, you’re up tomorrow.

VOTE: Toranaga

so convenient

[Toranaga]

I got caught up in something but still around

wh4t: WRT poseidon's posting near hammer, it looks genuine. his posting otherwise has been pretty poor, he only showed up to defend himself and promised reads he never made. he is probably never town PR if he is town cause he just invited the lynch without claiming or softing anything as well. if you're legitimately townreading poseidon for that, you're disregarding two weeks of mafia playing to townread fakeable emotions someone is having near lynch. his activity is the most telling thing about his slot and it's wolfy. poseidon is definitely around lurking because he conveniently shows up when he is a wagon, and then he disappears again when heat gets off him. there's no interest in solving the game. he is voting your slot since inferno was playing and never reevaluated on it, which is pretty telling.

[Toranaga]

d

I'm making you sad? well wait until I flip

[Toranaga]

Great posting Pose!

When you flip BuJaber is conf. Scum.

bujaber can only get lynched with a tracker counterclaim and that will only happen in lylo after I flip. he is not scum because he lied about his NA.

[Toranaga]

pretty sure he is tracker

[Toranaga]

pretty sure he is tracker

Is that scumclaim?

I don't think bujaber would either out himself as mafia just to get me lynched, or out actual town PR as VT

[Toranaga]

either way this loss is not on me

leshrug

[Toranaga]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efc7njKAfgo[/youtube]

[Toranaga]

[Toranaga]

BLACK HOLE SUN

WON'T YOU COME

AND WASH AWAY THE RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIN

[Toranaga]

lol you idiots lynched eragon

[Toranaga]

[Toranaga]

IF ONLY I WAS TRACK IMMUNE AMIRITE GUYS

[Toranaga]

[Toranaga]

wh4t I love playing with you

[Toranaga]

[Toranaga]

[Toranaga]

[Toranaga]

I'll love spending another day with you guys <3

[Toranaga]

kinda scummy of egg to not even show up

[Toranaga]

Tor gave up and claimed scum. That's why A50's plan works.

You don't need a flip to believe me.

Under normal circumstances yes we'd have to go for the normal lynch and confirm my allignment.

Anyway we can lynch Tor if you want. It makes little difference.

manatee was scum and replaced out instead of playing out when all his posting was terrible and he was getting heat

kind of annoying tbh

[Toranaga]

VOTE: poseidon

[Toranaga]

oh well

I thought waiting to see if my vote influenced anything reads wise would be alright but sure

just a formality at this point but I concede

[Toranaga]

yes it is

[Toranaga]

hard pocketed eragon that game

it was kinda brilliant

sorry eragon, you're great