Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition (Day 8)

[wilky]

I'm also going to hardclaim miller here and the miller has a flavour name too so i'd like to put the question to dave on what's the flavour name of your miller role.

Until then
VOTE: Davesaz

[wilky]

I would totally be willing to but just to clear things up a little the only thing I want is the name given specifically to the miller part under abilities which should be the same for both of us.

[wilky]

I mean I brought up the flavour thing and even pointed to which part of the PM it is contained within. As scum I wouldn't know that information if everyone wants me to claim first then that's fine by me.

I was also working off the assumption that there would only be 1 miller tbh and was aiming to catch dave out already but going by what's been said 2 millers is something the mod would definitely do so i'm now beginning to believe both me and dave are millers here.

[wilky]

Wilky had an odd reaction to being CCed and I think he might be scum miller given miller as a fakeclaim.

I wasn't cc'ed

[wilky]

VOTE: Wilky

Very very very high odds of this being scum

Why because I pointed out your mistake? I wasn't cc'ed dave hardclaimed miller first, I claimed it second.

[wilky]

So we're just assuming that safe claims are given now?

[wilky]

No I actually explicitly don't think that safe claims were given since giffles didn't last game: I think that your role is actually miller but you're scum and that the role PM is something memey about you being a miller despite being scum.

That's also such, such, such a scummy reaction.

WE'RE LYNCHING BUGS BUNNY BOYS EASY GAME.

Actually the PM isn't memey at all just the miller part has its own flavour (and is not explicitly called miller in the ability parts) to fit in with the flavour of the game.

[wilky]

We don't even know that you both got the same flavor.

VOTE: Wilky

Yeah, I'm feeling this one over dave if we are lynching in millers.

I can pretty much guarantee that we would have got the same flavour due to the way its worded in the role pm.

I mean I brought up the flavour thing and even pointed to which part of the PM it is contained within. As scum I wouldn't know that information if everyone wants me to claim first then that's fine by me.

I was also working off the assumption that there would only be 1 miller tbh and was aiming to catch dave out already but going by what's been said 2 millers is something the mod would definitely do so i'm now beginning to believe both me and dave are millers here.

So we're just assuming that safe claims are given now?

These pinged me as scummy stuff with tmi trying to withhold info. And even without the miller claims I don't really like his tone about the whole miller situation in the first place. Why are you voting Ank? For pressure or because you sr them? I don't think just voting will hurry them up with whatever they're doing.

I wasn't with holding information at all, my idea was to get dave to flavour claim then I would know if he was miller or not. Rest of town have a different view and i'm now happy to flavour claim first.

Also let's be totally clear on what my viewpoint is
My viewpoint is that Wilky IS IN FACT A MILLER BY ROLE. HIS ROLE PM SAYS MILLER.
But he is scum nonetheless.

That is why he claimed miller, having the role, and that is why he immediately gave Davesaz an out to make the situation not a counterclaim.

I get zero vibes from his response that he actually thinks Davesaz is lock scum and the vote felt more of an obligation and that Wilky just wanted to get the situation dealt with.

This is also a completely GIF thing to do, he has put two town millers in multiple previous games and I think it's about time that he screws with that meta by making one scum.

What even would a scum miller be? Is that a thing?

Also, if the mod has done two town vigs in multiple games before the idea of him just randomly changing it up in this game sounds pretty far fetched to me.

well, in my past large themes there wasn't, but i trust you on this

still, i'd prefer Tchill over Wilky, he came after both miller claims, so i feel it might be scum trying take advantage of miller claims

final answer
I would lean it a few percentage points towards it being his town meta although this result isn't especially conclusive
definitely enough to not want to lynch him today, yall can clusterfuck him later in the game when me and anony are gone if you want

@Ramcius???????????????????????????????????????????????????/
How the fuck is he scum trying to take advantage of miller claims in what way does claiming that as scum take advantage of miller claims?

Are you believe some weird hider claim that isn't weak? Or it's more likely scum trying smuggle in some fishy claim during confusion caused by millers and attracting less attention than it would get normally, and simultaneously getting protection form investigative roles?

Yeah I see no advantages at all for a scum!Tchill to claim in the manner he did that would be taking advantage of the miller claims.

? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ?? ? ?

Why would he just not claim it if that was an issue on his radar? Why would he ever be getting protection from investigative roles when he explicitly claimed something that doesn't require investigative roles?

You're just scum pushing a mislynch to distract from Wilky here well over 90% of the time.

VOTE: Wilky

fine, have your way

This seems like such an easy way to hop on to my wagon but brush your hands off any backlash once I flip town.

VOTE: Ramcius

[wilky]

Flavour Claim:

One of my abilities is that I am a prototype synth, my win condition is to eliminate the institute but upon investigation I will show as sided with the institute.

[wilky]

Flavour Claim:

One of my abilities is that I am a prototype synth, my win condition is to eliminate the institute but upon investigation I will show as sided with the institute.

Is your

role

miller? Or just the investigation results?
Fair's fair. My role is Commonwealth Miller, and for flavor in the "abilities" section I'm a former institute scientist who will investigate as Institute.

The role is Commenwealth Miller with something else too. I didn't really want to full claim but there is more to my role.

[wilky]

Hey, someone with time and nothing better to do:

Find games GiF's run with multiple millers.
Crossreference playerlists with wilky/dave.
Find any other games with wilky/dave and multiple millers.

Link all of those for me to go through.

TYIA

~Jingle

I can make this slightly easier for whoever does this if anyone. This is my first game with any sort of miller i'm sure so there won't be any with me and multiple millers.

[wilky]

@MariaR

What's your read/opinion on Ramcius right now? You seem to have played with them before but you popped in with the Nero vote and haven't commented on Ram's actions and wagon.

I haven't commented on Ram on purpose. I rather not speak on Ram atm if a wagon keeps going I'll comment but for now I rather shut up about him due to my own reasons.

How do people feel about Alch? I don't think I'm bias tring that slot. (seems rather obv town) but some people have said he's scummy so I want to know where that came from

This might be far fetched, and generally i'm not a fan of partner hunting pre flip, but these quotes just really don't sit right with me. I feel the withholding on ram is too obvious to show a partnership of scum!ram and scum!maria but I don't have experience with Maria to know how well her scum game is anyone else played with her before?

The second quote is the one that really irks me though, coming in and asking about a specific player. I'd put my neck on the line now and say IF there was a Maria scumflip then Alch would most likely be scum too.

Sure, that's true, but given all that like we got Willy to l2 almost effortlessly and this Ramcius push has gotten far less traction.

Why you comparing mine and Wilky wagons traction? He claimed miller in scummy manner, while what i did? Wanted someone else lynched? Voted myself to indicate how ridiculous i find this push "Ram is scummy"? I hear that in pretty much every game and should i make list of games, where i got ML'ed D1?

I want to counter this with the vote on me was scummy as i've already explained. How wagons build can be a good way to form reads through wagon analysis to. Granted wagon analysis isn't my strongest point though.

well, in my past large themes there wasn't, but i trust you on this

still, i'd prefer Tchill over Wilky, he came after both miller claims, so i feel it might be scum trying take advantage of miller claims

final answer
I would lean it a few percentage points towards it being his town meta although this result isn't especially conclusive
definitely enough to not want to lynch him today, yall can clusterfuck him later in the game when me and anony are gone if you want

@Ramcius???????????????????????????????????????????????????/
How the fuck is he scum trying to take advantage of miller claims in what way does claiming that as scum take advantage of miller claims?

Are you believe some weird hider claim that isn't weak? Or it's more likely scum trying smuggle in some fishy claim during confusion caused by millers and attracting less attention than it would get normally, and simultaneously getting protection form investigative roles?

It was these 2 posts that gave me the impression, but I do see where I missed the implied Wilky scumread in that first one.

UNVOTE:

Actually I don't see the implication of Scum!me in those posts at all. In the first post there was still very much a wagon on me and saying he preferred Tchill to me looks more to me like he prefers Tchill to the current wagon rather than Tchill to his second scum read (if that makes any sense i'm not sure i'm explaining it well).

The second post refers to both me and dave as "millers", not claimed millers, or claimed pr's or even claimed roles just simply "millers" which would imply he doesn't doubt either the claims.

Also, if the mod has done two town vigs in multiple games before the idea of him just randomly changing it up in this game sounds pretty far fetched to me.

why?

You really can't see that if a mod has history of two town millers before in multiple games that it's far more likely he'd do that again rather than throw in one town miller and one scum miller?

Wait, keade, WHY, you literally cracked under no pressure.

Okay, from now on no more claims....

QFT

[wilky]

well, in my past large themes there wasn't, but i trust you on this

still, i'd prefer Tchill over Wilky, he came after both miller claims, so i feel it might be scum trying take advantage of miller claims

final answer
I would lean it a few percentage points towards it being his town meta although this result isn't especially conclusive
definitely enough to not want to lynch him today, yall can clusterfuck him later in the game when me and anony are gone if you want

@Ramcius???????????????????????????????????????????????????/
How the fuck is he scum trying to take advantage of miller claims in what way does claiming that as scum take advantage of miller claims?

Are you believe some weird hider claim that isn't weak? Or it's more likely scum trying smuggle in some fishy claim during confusion caused by millers and attracting less attention than it would get normally, and simultaneously getting protection form investigative roles?

It was these 2 posts that gave me the impression, but I do see where I missed the implied Wilky scumread in that first one.

UNVOTE:

Actually I don't see the implication of Scum!me in those posts at all. In the first post there was still very much a wagon on me and saying he preferred Tchill to me looks more to me like he prefers Tchill to the current wagon rather than Tchill to his second scum read (if that makes any sense i'm not sure i'm explaining it well).

The second post refers to both me and dave as "millers", not claimed millers, or claimed pr's or even claimed roles just simply "millers" which would imply he doesn't doubt either the claims.

Oh boy, i don't think anyone believes there 2 scums in you, Dave and Tchill, so question is which one of you is scum? Dave is townread by majority, so i leave him out, as i did before, therefore it's you and Tchill. At this point i hope it's obvious, why you and Dave are millers, if Tchill is scum trying to use fuss caused by millers

So Dave being the townread one makes him the obvious town one? Let's put it another way then what if the ones who came out to defend Daves claim were his scumbuddies? (I'm not pushing Scum!dave here by the way just trying to piece together your decision making).

[wilky]

Wow, i've got a lot to catch up on. Will catch up at some point tonight.

[wilky]

Long-ish post. I make no apologies for that.

The whole beef between the hydra's is tedious, unnecessary and quite frankly a silly argument. Can that stop now before this game reaches a pretty toxic state and becomes unfun for everyone.

Yeah I could get on board with a Vent wagon too

Is it not possible Tchill has a jester role of some sort? Not suggesting an insta win but I don't see how his claim could be helpful to town otherwise.

It wouldn't surprise me if Wilky has done research and is relying on the miller claim because he realises the host has done this before, especially since he chose to highlight that it wasn't far fetched for there to be 2 millers again. As Alchemist said though, this is relying on some pretty niche assumptions so I'm not buying it just yet.

Very suspicious post

Almost forgot, might as well elaborate on why I find this post very suspicious, because why not

He uses some rather

absurd

leaps in logic in two separate cases to paint a narrative picture about these two players, deliberately ignoring Occam's Razor in favor of stirring up WIFOM.

What is more likely? That TChill is running a Jester gambit? Or that TChill is fakeclaiming? TChill's was by far the least believable claim so far, and the most awkward (considering Kaede is mod-confirmed). By bringing up some a longshot possiblity, Vent is indirectly mounting a soft defense of TChill.

Simultaneously, he attempts to cast suspicion on Wilky with a similarly absurd leap. What's more likely? That Wilky is claiming Miller truthfully in a game run by a mod who apparently has a habit of these kinds of setup quirks? Or that Wilky is deliberately playing off mod meta to mount a roundabout fakeclaim gambit, with a claim that is by its nature instantly considered suspect by default?

I don't like that whatsoever. And after we get the VC I might consider switching my vote right now.

Ugh, I can't fully remember why I quoted this post now but I agree with what Wraith is saying here.

I'm not scum reading manwithnoname that hard right now, he seems to be scumhunting, which I don't think many scum players try to play up this early day one.

Scum players don't play up scumhunting on day 1? I disagree., I don't think the explanation for your read is a good one.

He uses some rather absurd leaps in logic in two separate cases to paint a narrative picture about these two players, deliberately ignoring Occam's Razor in favor of stirring up WIFOM.

What is more likely? That TChill is running a Jester gambit? Or that TChill is fakeclaiming? TChill's was by far the least believable claim so far, and the most awkward (considering Kaede is mod-confirmed). By bringing up some a longshot possiblity, Vent is indirectly mounting a soft defense of TChill.

Absurd leaps in logic aren't more likely to come from scum than town. If anything it's the opposite. While you may be correct, I don't think you make a good point here. Town is allowed to soft defend people too, by the way.

Agree with the first part why wouldn't scum give the impression of scumhunting early on?

Can you elaborate on the next part? Why is absurd leaps in logic more likely to come from town?

RC

All I really want to know in light of that is how much weight you put behind the points on him you've already stated.

I might be willing to go back to sheeping, but I want to be sure that it's worth not gunning for a slot that I think is highly likely to flip scum.

If you think that MWNN is scum it should at the very least intrigue you that MWNN followed me on several votes but then got cold feet and waffled when I tried to vote Ventriloquist.

This is interesting.

I got tired of following a town read rather than pursuing my own reads, especially when the Ventriloquist read came down to "He's inactive".

Just because you're obvtown, doesn't mean you are always right, RC. You should have learned that by now.

This is a bad reply.

Like: if you agree with me that Ventriloquist is doing nothing and needs to start doing something, shouldn't you at the very least be enthusiastic about wagoning him to force him to do something?
You're also voting another person on your another blip on the radar list, so idk.

Ankamius is several percentage points above rand and I totally agree with the read that Hebi has so idk what your issue is Dunn.

Again this is interesting, so mwnn sheeped you up until ventriloquist, then backed off saying he wasn't a blip on his radar whilst voting someone else he said the same thing about? I'm too lazy to check if this happened that way but I will check it over the weekend.

I agree Ventriloquist needs to start posting, that being said, I think Realmen's posting has been to the point where he is just avoiding posting anything that can be AI. The last time I voted off of someone that was doing that, I got burned, that's why I am pushing Realmen.

Ventriloquist has enough votes without me to pressure him into voting, anyway.

Like, fuck, this is a large anyway, if I were scum with Ventriloquist, why wouldn't I vote him for the town cred anyway?

Ahh good ole deflection "yes my scumbuddy isn't playing stellar but look at this other player here..."

I can understand the reaction to my posting, by the way. I'm just going to have to be better going forward.

I still think Realmen is the best vote at this point in time. Ventriloquist can be on notice, but Realmen has actually been scummy (I will admit again, amusing) but scummy, overall.

I hate posts like this, the whole I can understand why you feel i'm scum but promise me i'm just not playing great just feels so scummy and is also a subtle AtE.

if i considered sk, i said 14 v 3 v 1, but i doubt sk - 2 millers and hider in closed game with 2 KPN (

as you see, i don't consider either of them gambiting scum in this case - i doubt scum would risk such gambit, if there was only 3 of them)

As to why i doubt 5 maf, there's general rule for numbers in game - town = 3xscum + 1, closest number is 13 v 4, adding 5th scum in closed game requires them to be very weak and town godlike.

As to games with similar numbers - Beneath the Mask was 16 v 5, Divergent was 15 v 4 v 1 and we barely won, Kingdom Hearts was 13 v 4

So when someone gives unrealistic number, i wonder if they have no idea about setups or are scum trying fake townslip

Who are the two players you are referring to in the bolded part?

The whole fake townslip over numbers is a bullshit argument if I have ever seen one. I mean who said there isn't a 5 man scum team? Just because it's slightly out from the norm doesn't mean it might not be the case. I also get a feeling your posting from a perspective that 100% knows the size of the scum team which doesn't go in your favour for my reads.

As for TRs, i never give those, unless someone do or say something that makes them locktown in my eyes, otherwise all my TRs are subject to change

And your scum reads aren't subject to change?

Why hide that information? I think anyone's TRs are always subject to change unless they are mod confirmed, yet you dont see them hiding them.

Then what point of posting townreads, if you going change them later on? If anyone want my TRs, they can just assume people i'm not scumreading are my townreads atm

Same as above there's not a possibility your scum reads will change later?

So, oldtimers, who can confirm that in past it was norm 5 scum in 18p closed games?

Does it really fucking matter? This might be the worst case of shit flinging I have ever seen in a mafia game.

Fine, whatever.

VOTE: Ventriloquist

I don't like being a leader anyway

Wait? Wut? Where did this come from? Weren't you against the vent wagon before now?

he was awkward and scummy tonally

Ick.

I hate tone reads. They're basically like gut reads and a lynch-bait thing to have as the foundation of your scum read on someone.

I don't have a huge amount of scumreads so far this game. One of wilky and tchill is probably scum, MWNN is scummy too and probably more so than wilky at this point. Unsure what to make of the impossibear and jungle thing.

So...? Let me summarize this so that I can understand it....

Wilky is probs scum cause of awkward and "scummy" tone, but TChill might be scum too! But MWNN is scummier than Wilky (and probably TChill?), but I'm still vote sitting on TChill all the

way from

PAGE ONE RVS

!

And then, there's this...

for what it's worth this probably means tchill and mwnn aren't both scum.

Ghost

QFT. I agree with everything in that quote.

[wilky]

I still want to lynch Ram. MWNN comes a close second in here and if MWNN flips scum then I think that implicates ventriloquist.

[wilky]

Can't remember anything really from Wraith but he's rubbed a couple people the wrong way so will also iso there this weekend.

[wilky]

OK, great. Considering there is as much a chance as anything that there is a 3 man scum team with a 3rd party and if there's a 3 man scum team then Ram thinks that none of the claims are scum then why is such a huge chunk of his iso focusing on 1 of the claims being scum? Below is quotes from Ram's iso that insinuate scum in one of the claims. I still get the feeling from Ram's post that he's more in the know than most of the rest of us.

well, this hider claim might come from scum - this way they are safe from checks and can't be used as weak cop - won't die, if visit scum

Wilky remains scum and everyone who comes in and doesn't comment on him at all while pushing the wagon elsewhere is dying over the next few days.

if i have to choose, i'd lynch Tchill - he can hide from vig, if he's tells truth about his role, while miller can be dealt by vig. But if we don't have vig, we can come back to Wilky D2/D3. That's assuming we will decide he's scum and must be dealt with

well, in my past large themes there wasn't, but i trust you on this

still, i'd prefer Tchill over Wilky, he came after both miller claims, so i feel it might be scum trying take advantage of miller claims

? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ?? ? ?

Why would he just not claim it if that was an issue on his radar? Why would he ever be getting protection from investigative roles when he explicitly claimed something that doesn't require investigative roles?

You're just scum pushing a mislynch to distract from Wilky here well over 90% of the time.

VOTE: Wilky

fine, have your way

VOTE: Ramcius

agree, that's good wagon

I don't understand why a townie (moreover, anyone) would vote for themselves - seems like you saw a wagon forming and then panicked to try and loosen the noose around your neck. Also, why change your vote to Wilky seemingly just because Ouroboros called you out for it? Please explain your logic.

VOTE: Ramcius

Well, i could keep my RVS vote, but we were past RVS stage, so it's kinda obvious why i voted someone, as to why i voted Wilky - I never said i townread them, just that my scumread on Tchill was stronger, hence i said Wilky can be shot.

Sure, that's true, but given all that like we got Willy to l2 almost effortlessly and this Ramcius push has gotten far less traction.

Why you comparing mine and Wilky wagons traction? He claimed miller in scummy manner, while what i did? Wanted someone else lynched? Voted myself to indicate how ridiculous i find this push "Ram is scummy"? I hear that in pretty much every game and should i make list of games, where i got ML'ed D1?

No I'm pretty sure everyone agreed it was the way they claimed not the claim itself. Can I persuade you to help me run up Ramcius?

I spectated that Bastard game GIF modded, it seems to me that Ramcius is the type of player that plays in a way that rubs ppl the wrong way and ends up getting himself lynched, ill give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

This sort of thing is what I'm worried about since the last game I played had a D1 VI lynch and I don't want to repeat that. That's why I asked Maria about him, to see if he's known to be a VI. But I still can't get over how his jump onto Wilky looked like he just wanted RC to stop pushing him. Do you think that's something Town Ramcius would do?

I just realised i can't change RC mind and going against him would ended in my own lynch, so i decided settle for my 2nd scumread and give RC his way. There are people i feel like arguing and there are people i try reason a bit and just give their way, if they seems unmovable.

As for VI, i disagree with that, it's just that people find my methods scummy or rather not up to this site meta and i get ML'ed way too often D1 to my liking.

Also, we played in Beneath the Mask, so you have some first hand experience with me and my methods

I really don't remember much from Beneath the Mask aside from the Mulch-based drama, though your avi was familiar to me.

Also I was asking Kaede about you partially to try getting a read on her. I keep looking at the early interactiin between Kaede and Maria but can't get any reads based off of it.

How come you didn't say you thought Wilky was scummy before you voted there? The way you were talking made it sound like you trusted both Miller claims as Town with scum Tchill taking advantage of the situation.

"Let's lynch Tchill, we can vig Wilky, if needed" sounds to you like Wilky is town to me?

On second thought I think I will go back on Ram for now. Half the reason I didn't want to unvote him earlier is because I don't have a better place for my vote right now and I still don't so I'll put it back just to keep up some pressure.

VOTE: Ramcius

It's not how pressure works - you don't tell people you vote just for pressure

also, why you townreading both millers and hider claimants?

well, in my past large themes there wasn't, but i trust you on this

still, i'd prefer Tchill over Wilky, he came after both miller claims, so i feel it might be scum trying take advantage of miller claims

final answer
I would lean it a few percentage points towards it being his town meta although this result isn't especially conclusive
definitely enough to not want to lynch him today, yall can clusterfuck him later in the game when me and anony are gone if you want

@Ramcius???????????????????????????????????????????????????/
How the fuck is he scum trying to take advantage of miller claims in what way does claiming that as scum take advantage of miller claims?

Are you believe some weird hider claim that isn't weak? Or it's more likely scum trying smuggle in some fishy claim during confusion caused by millers and attracting less attention than it would get normally, and simultaneously getting protection form investigative roles?

It was these 2 posts that gave me the impression, but I do see where I missed the implied Wilky scumread in that first one.

UNVOTE:

Actually I don't see the implication of Scum!me in those posts at all. In the first post there was still very much a wagon on me and saying he preferred Tchill to me looks more to me like he prefers Tchill to the current wagon rather than Tchill to his second scum read (if that makes any sense i'm not sure i'm explaining it well).

The second post refers to both me and dave as "millers", not claimed millers, or claimed pr's or even claimed roles just simply "millers" which would imply he doesn't doubt either the claims.

Oh boy, i don't think anyone believes there 2 scums in you, Dave and Tchill, so question is which one of you is scum? Dave is townread by majority, so i leave him out, as i did before, therefore it's you and Tchill. At this point i hope it's obvious, why you and Dave are millers, if Tchill is scum trying to use fuss caused by millers

I don't like Ventrilo's attempt push me, i dlike Wraith's "5 scum, no faceclaim", we still have Tchill/Wilky situation, Realmen asking to be burned with the fire, hebi's sheeping is unsettling, Nero is awkwardly silent

Hm, i guess i try

VOTE: Nero

others at least are talking

[wilky]

I'm going to just come clean on why I was fighting Ouroboros before. I played a game with RC on my main and just don't like interacting with him because his play style clashes so much with mine.

It was personal, petty and stupid. And I am nothing if not petty and stupid.

Nice AtE.

[wilky]

I think I am. You're coming in telling everyone that you were being petty and stupid hoping that we just feel bad that you let your emotions take over and cut you some slack for your earlier play.

[wilky]

So why is there no chance of scum in the claims in a 3 man scum team but half your iso is about scum in at least 1 claim in a 4 man scum team? Why such a difference with 1 player difference

[wilky]

Yeah that's convinced me on vent what's the current vote count?

[wilky]

Following the posts above I'm going to iso ank this weekend now too.

[wilky]

So lynching scum is bad for town? Ank has absolutely collapsed under a slight bit of pressure here.

VOTE: vent

L-1

[wilky]

I mean, despite the fact i've been scumreading ram most of the day I also agree with what he has said on the situation. That being that ank is trying to dispel a wagon on vent whilst also trying to cover tracks when his buddy flips scum.

[wilky]

I've read the thread don't really have time to do a big post though will do that tomorrow.

For now both hydras and RMOJ are town from todays posts. Impossibear's complete u-turn on me is weird though, will compare others on their earlier reads lists until now tomorrow when I have the time.

Not sure what to think of Ank, on one hand were they trying to dispel the wagon or at least delay it d1 to buy time for a scum partner? On the other hand I really don't think scum pulls a gambit like that at all.

[wilky]

VOTE: Ank

i dislike Ank's answrs at end of the day, i disliked that hammer and now i have no idea why she wants lynch lurker

Why would scum!ank pull a gambit like that? The more I think of it the less it looks like scum to me. Also you have been insistent on lynching lurkers for a while why push someone for it?

impossibear's cooperation to get themselves cleared makes them obvious town now anyway

qft

Ank's insistence that town should not lynch Vent because "D1 scumlynches are bad" is insanely suspicious.

That's not something scum says about their partners

I agree with this

Nah, I'll reveal it when I care enough to. Not before then.

ran out of "how to scum 101" tricks?

>"it was just a reaction test and you failed it"
>"you can never lynch me"
>"i know your team"

Ugh, I still think your scum but this post is towny af.

Also how familiar are you with the game? We are thinking RMOJ is definitely town - we received the message from the mod re: the quest, and I can't think of a single mental leap that makes that character aligned with the institute.

ETL

p-edit: Ok, how are you feeling about these people? They are weaker reads for us. I've basically scrapped our entire readslist from yesterday.

Maria
tchill
ramcius
verylazy
dunnstral

We think the game

might

be solveable if the claims are all real.

i can see why other 4 on the list, they kinda lurkers, but why you put me there? Also, i'm always available to talk, well, as long as you don't try tricks on me, then i might get little unpleasant

Being a lurker is the only reason someone wouldn't have a read on you by now?

Do you still think Wilky is super locktown tonally like you said earlier in the game?

Tonally... I still think his counterclaim was towny-sounding. Today's posts? I dunno. I have a specific reason for believing he is worth a lynch that doesn't have to do with tone though.

ETL

p-edit: What are you even talking about....

I specifically want wilky on his own L-1 wagon so that he can't selfhammer.

Just going to put it out there that I'll avoid voting myself unless I really have to as its then 1 less vote scum need on me.

Also the RC hydra has a few times now changed there vote whilst impossibear was vote 3 on a wagon. Not sure what to think of that just now, but I think they're still town just something worth considering.

VOTE: Ram

[wilky]

Yeah?

[wilky]

Will you indulge me in revealing some information

I'm available for 10 minutes or so, if that's not enough i'll be available for longer tomorrow.

[wilky]

N V, i've never played the game so not sure if this gives away too much but i've already claimed the miller part of my role so lets go with it.

[wilky]

Thank you. That clears up a lot, for us anyway.

UNVOTE:

You just removed your vote off of me before the vote count.

Not sure how the votes look but that takes away that part of your quest right?

[wilky]

Thank you. That clears up a lot, for us anyway.

UNVOTE:

You just removed your vote off of me before the vote count.

Not sure how the votes look but that takes away that part of your quest right?

In order for it to count, it would need to be reflected on a VC as the third vote on a wagon that is at L-1.

That's the way I understood it.

Ahh shit yeah, I forgot about the bit that specified an L-1 wagon too.

I guess that makes more sense for me selfvoting as I was strictly taking it as me not self hammering.

[wilky]

Ahh shit yeah, I forgot about the bit that specified an L-1 wagon too.

I guess that makes more sense for me selfvoting as I was strictly taking it as me not self hammering.

Me too. I'm gonna leave it up to Jingle to coordinate the votes. Haven't seen him around all day so I'm hoping we'll connect tomorrow. I know RC wanted his individual reads list as well.

Besides the hydrae and RMOJ, who's your strongest townread?

ETL << sorry forgot to be signing these today

I guess through the flips i'd argue it being ank. I jumped on ank's scum flips don't always benefit town in d1 but as I said the more I think about it the less I think it comes from scum!ank trying to defend his partner.

Anyway I gotta bounce will be back tomorrow.

[wilky]

Infact just before I go, i'd have dave up there too as the two millers is a mod meta thing.

[wilky]

There's no scum motivation for either of them to claim miller, but that's not a town tell either, simply put if you're miller everyone knows you should claim it in your first post. wilky's entrance was kinda towny, but then he started pushing the flavor claim as if it would confirm his alignment and that's how i started getting suspicious of it, I mentioned this back in day 1 too.

Again don't have much time to post but I just want to add the flavour thing wasn't about confirming my alignment to everyone else it was about confirming Dave's to me

[wilky]

it's goes without a saying that scum have fakeclaims, it would be too easy to break game trough mass flavour claims, when flavour matters

that being said, people seems forgot Wraith being confident is scum not having fakeclaims D1

I don't think it goes without saying at all unless confirmed.

@mod- are you willing to confirm wether scum have fake claims?

[wilky]

Now: I feel pretty damn certain at that point that scum have fakeclaims because the last flip's claim is a literal scumclaim. I think it is precisely within the bounds of what GIF would do to give scum a miller role as a fakeclaim to mess with people, even if the character itself is not an actual miller. All these arguments that Wilky would not have claimed there are bullshit: scum sees the conflicting miller claims, first thing they do is mod meta. Ventriloquist even said:

It wouldn't surprise me if Wilky has done research and is relying on the miller claim because he realises the host has done this before, especially since he chose to highlight that it wasn't far fetched for there to be 2 millers again. As Alchemist said though, this is relying on some pretty niche assumptions so I'm not buying it just yet.

aka, that they would potentially be willing to jump into the miller counterclaim situation after mod metaing, and that's exactly what happened I believe.
Tchill is a lame wagon that like don't get me wrong isn't never scum but Wilky is never getting lynched with me gone with several people's attitudes so.

RC I know you like using meta dives so you can go ahead and meta dive me if you like. I don't even use meta to read players (except maybe NM) so why would I meta dive a mod?

[wilky]

As I said go ahead check my meta that is definitely not within my range. I mean I just wouldn't even have the time to.

[wilky]

No like I'm actually not literally 100% certain Wilky is scum. I've repeatedly asked for you to engage with me on it where I didn't for Vent because I can be persuaded here.
I made my points, asked for thoughts on it, you just got mad at me for leading the playerlist when today I've been doing so solely through strength of reasoning rather than character.

I think Wilky scum makes a shitton of sense in the gamestate particularly given Ventriloquist's approach to the slot, but like I'm open to persuading
You've made no effort to actually push Wilky scum besides to say that they're locktown because of flavor, which is... bad reasoning

And wilky, your defense keeps coming down to whether or not scum have fakeclaims and arguments that don't address the case at all so, meh.

Thats because there is no case to address I mean half of it is the claim and the other half is how vent acted on my slot.

[wilky]

No like I'm actually not literally 100% certain Wilky is scum. I've repeatedly asked for you to engage with me on it where I didn't for Vent because I can be persuaded here.
I made my points, asked for thoughts on it, you just got mad at me for leading the playerlist when today I've been doing so solely through strength of reasoning rather than character.

I think Wilky scum makes a shitton of sense in the gamestate particularly given Ventriloquist's approach to the slot, but like I'm open to persuading
You've made no effort to actually push Wilky scum besides to say that they're locktown because of flavor, which is... bad reasoning

And wilky, your defense keeps coming down to whether or not scum have fakeclaims and arguments that don't address the case at all so, meh.

Thats because there is no case to address I mean half of it is the claim and the other half is how vent acted on my slot.

There's also the fact that you used MWNN/Ventriloquist associatives to push on MWNN while saying that Vent could be scum if MWNN was scum but refusing to go the other direction until it became basically guaranteed to happen and never actually comment on Ventriloquist much at all.

My switch to vent had nothing to do with it becoming guaranteed to happen and I was totally convinced with the time stamps on the posts.

I didn't think he was scum but he's kind of scummy in his responses to you/not really making a case for himself here

This is fence sitty af.

FOS- Dunnstral

[wilky]

Fight me then. You've repeatedly dragged this out of the game and I've had enough with your shit and ETL's shit.

But you're not the one making it toxic no?

Sure. I don't know the details, I need more flips.

And flipping the vig is your idea of progressing the game state?

This.

Is there a 3rd party this game or is it confirmed scum vs town

Nothing confirmed.

I will quickhammer ramcius if they are brought to L-1. 0 purpose doing that.

If you want this check then wagon Wilky for it.

You are actually fucking toxic as fuck when you don't get your own way. RC is officially on my blacklist now, grow the fuck up.

I'm playing terribly but I was the one who fought my ass off to get scum lynched on D1.

Oh right, no way RC would bus is there?

Oh so now we're going to the "Anything can be scum motivated so long as it fits with my reads"

Pretty much.

does someone want to summarize the case on wilky for me?

There isn't one

Actually yeah, why did Vent die with the body swap if keeping it would let them keep swapping stuff.

because they did what they wanted, they gave their strongest scum player a godfather and told people to cop them.

they don't need to keep switching stuff around and giving anything else to town means losing actual usable powers.

Like the scum miller wilky?

I mean RC can't even decide if i'm a scum miller, i'm fake claiming miller off my own back or i'm using a mod provided fake claim.

also i seriously hope your reasoning for thinking it's a fake claim is because he's miller

with additional abilities.

I mean i'll be serious the other ability I have isn't the best PR available but it is a PR. I mean, if it comes down to me being lynched its probably expendable.

Is it just me... Or are the people we're all arguing about convientlly NOT here e.g. Wilky and TChill mainly. But where's everyone else? It feels like 10+ pages since I haven't seen some of the other players.

Ghost

Nah, no way you're giving me a black mark for not being here at 4.41 am when this post was made UK time. You can fuck right off with that suggestion.

So am I supposed to endure you creating a toxic game state? i rather rep out than that.

But, but, but RC isn't the one making it toxic...

What if I'm right on Wilky though, Kaede?

You're not.


For the whole hydra 1v1 thing the way I see it is that RC keeps having digs at them and when Jingle/ETL reply he's hitting out with the whole 'see they're attacking me not the other way around' bullshit. There is no way that i'll ever play another game with RC again.

[wilky]

Also keep an eye on Maria/Tchill they seem the most sus on my wagon.

RMOJ, ETL and Dave are all town.

I still think Ram could be scum too.

[wilky]

Thinking about it I may aswell just full claim now.

Claiming Miller Slow Cop

As I said the role probably is expendably and if I don't get lynched there are better night kill targets. If i'm going to be lynched at least run Ram to L-1 then let Impossibear hammer me. Tomorrow keep a close eye on Ouroborus because RC's reasoning on his read on me is bullshit.

Also keep an eye on Maria/Tchill they seem the most sus on my wagon.

RMOJ, ETL and Dave are all town.

I still think Ram could be scum too.

EBWOP I seem to have lost the first half of my post there.

[wilky]

If I investigate the same person two nights in a row I get a result

[wilky]

Problem is, we keep spending deadline doing these switches just for this quest.
But well i can always blame it on Ram right?

Ram and RC

It unfortunate that this causes another day of unnaturally formed wagons VCA is one of my strong points.

Or we could have L-1'd you then had some unvotes after the vc and by now be past that stage of the quest but you and RC had to be awkward about it all.

It unfortunate that this causes another day of unnaturally formed wagons VCA is one of my strong points.

Eh, I can do VCA on the unnatural ones too. If anything, they'll help overall.

What would be helpful from the unnatural wagons?

i think focusing this day on fulfilling the quest is a bad idea that stifles natural conversation/scumhunting/vca

i hope we're done soon

We would have been done earlier if it weren't for two awkward players...

The flip would help me figure out RC's alignment and the other lynches I wanted at the time weren't happening.
If someone acts super confident in a read and I know them to have decent reads I don't mind sheeping it it's not like we were at lylo. Vents flip of info was gonna help me regardless I didn't really care if they flipped town or scum the fact they flipped scum is a bonus

I mean I've never even played with RC but know enough to know that hard bussing is well within his range so what would a flip on someone who was null to you provide on RC exactly?

Wraith, Kaede, Impossibear

Tchill

Jungle Kokichi

Maria

Ouroboros

These people continue to need to vote Tchill's replacement so we can get a VC and be done with this ridiculous L-1 thing. No one else should vote Tchill, but I can't be arsed to actually do an FOS vote count rn.

Non bolded names are already on the wagon, but should stay on the wagon. We will unvote at our earliest opportunity after GiF votecounts. Remember, we get the hammer and to hammer today is a scumclaim.

OTM, there's a list of claims that was accurate not long ago in my ISO. If you skim backwards you should be able to find it pretty quickly.

~Jingle

I think Tchill slot is still awaiting replacement isn't it?

Ouroboros still town obviously
Ankamius town
Wraith town
Kaede town
Alchemist21 town

that's my 100% list, I'll branch out from there

Okay I am legit scared.

I agree with RC.

Help. Me. I must be going insane.

can you explain where literally any of these reads came from

RC because when he busses he doesn’t talk about anyone else.
Ank is a because I know her read.
Wraith is because his reasons are good for attacking my predecessor’s slot. Wrong conclusion but I see where he is coming from.
Kaede is the IC.
Alchemist21 is more a gut read.

This sounds awkward and fake.

I said I wouldn't strong arm shit today so I'll leave you to your mislynch of Tchill. Wraith and Dunn die the next two days though.

It's not a mislynch though is it, its getting the first part of the quest done which you are hellbent on not helping with.


I'm not liking OTM since he has joined, his push on kokichi makes no sense at all, the lack of understanding about a scum no kill seems like someone with information feigning ignorance and the reads he posted seem fake.

[wilky]

Impossibear so we can get past this first part of the quest I will be will to move my vote to the tchill slot if you want to, it doesn't look like RC will cooperate here.

[wilky]

I'm not fully convinced on the scum!dave thing here but I do feel its a lynch that would provide info moving forwards.
I want to iso wraith to get a better read on the slot i'll pencil this in for tomorrow night. I'm going to be honest I skipped alot in my catchup because I am 100% sick of RC being toxic af and blaming everyone else now.

Before changing my vote i'll wait to see a vote count though.

[wilky]

Someone convince me this isn’t RC Dave ETL Wraith.

Please my gut says that is right brain says that can’t be right it’s too many.

Why would ETL co-operate so well with the quest if it was him?

Stop role fishing <3 Why do you think I've wanted Wilky lyched

Well this is a fucking lie. Maria has been wanting my lynch from early d1, I didn't claim cop until a bit into d2 so Maria lets have your reasons for my read without the lies thank you .

RC, at this point i just can't take your scumread on me serious it's like 3rd time you want me lynched

You have reacted like this to every vote on you. Do you genuinely think you have played a good town game here?

You should vote ProjectMatt then!

VOTE: ProjectMatt

sure

Oh look, caving to RC again. Lets lynch this.

i mean, not really. the only reason i switched from you to dunnstral is because you reacted semi-decently to the pressure on you, and it seemed like dunnscum was slipping under the radar.

what made you decide to vote me, ramcius?

Peer pressure

Lol.

Not liking a Dave wagon anymore. VOTE: TChill/punreader

why we not lynching this?

If you're wondering why it's because my gut is increasingly telling me that OTM is running a scum gambit to mislynch a claimed Miller.

There's been so many PR claims so far that I'm starting to rethink just believing all of them blindly.

Scum!OTM would have needed alot of planning and part of the planning would have meant Hebi deliberately breaking rules to pull it off. If that was the case you would have been guaranteed a modkill. That alongside impossibear's reasoning makes OTM pretty damn near conf!town to me.

It's pretty fucking strange that Wilky claimed the equivalent of non-consecutive cop, made excuses for his failure to die in the future in the process of doing so, and said he was an okay lynch because of his role ...?

Where did I make excuses on not dying?

Okay, here's my reads and efforting.

Wilky + davesaz + Tchill13/punreader

-

PoE Scumreads

- I remember very little of Wilky; a lot of his posts haven't given me vibes either way outside of his early posts looking really scummy. davesaz is always hard to read for me but I haven't seen a whole lot of reason to townread him? Overall pretty much null. Tchill13 was very scummy... but I want to see what punreader does to see if they can reverse my read.


In conclusion

Ramcius is my pick for scum.
Wilky is probably second pick pending other slots being resorted.
davesaz/Tchill13slot can go either way, but it's more likely the third scum is here than anywhere else.

.

Right so lets get this straight. Your read on me is that you remember very little on me and that I haven't really given you any town or scum vibes? Right, fair enough but you follow that up with a description of Tchill that includes the words "very scummy". So why would you want me who is basically null to you lynched before Tchill who is "very scummy"?

[wilky]

Why should that change anything? You're voting the slot and not the player.

[wilky]

Forgot to mention on my catch up I have a Wraith ISO pencilled in my to do list in the next few hours.

Before that though my lynch pool currently sits at:
Ram (Way ahead of everyone else)


Maria, Kokichi

[wilky]

Why should that change anything? You're voting the slot and not the player.

Because I'd like a more recent read on a slot that effectively flaked on day one?

Bullshit voting for a pretty null slot over a flaked "very scummy" slot shouldn't even be difficult to come to conclusions on. If you had described my play as scummy but just not quite as scummy as tchill i'd maybe be able to accept that but what you essentially said was you found my entrance scummy but have found me pretty null since.

RC, at this point i just can't take your scumread on me serious it's like 3rd time you want me lynched

You have reacted like this to every vote on you. Do you genuinely think you have played a good town game here?

You should vote ProjectMatt then!

VOTE: ProjectMatt

sure

Oh look, caving to RC again. Lets lynch this.

if you have convincing case against me, feel free to share with the class, cause i still haven't seen any and just vague "Ram is scum" just makes me laugh, especially, when they are retracted later on

I'm not caving to RC, i'm trying consolidate on someone else than Dave and who is my scumread/nullread (preferably scumread)

and to answer your question, i don't give a shit about playing good town game, my wincon is lynch scum, so i do my best to find and lynch them. If people find my methods scummy, that's on them, i'm not going hinder myself just to look more towny

also, you can die - your wish to kill me is very telling, cause that indicates you didn't copped me last night, while i'm your strongest scumread

*yawn*

I've given several reasons for my scum read on you over the course of the game but if you insist on a case i'll try pencil that in later when i'm doing my wraith iso.

Also, where in any sense would it make sense for me to waste two days to get a result on you when I already think you are scum and I think you are definitely lynchable and expendable. I'd be wasting two nights on that result in all honestly.

[wilky]

Because not cooperating is suicide

co operating would be suicide aswell though. If I were in a scum!impossibear situation i'd definitely be looking for a way to derail the quest. I certainly wouldn't be making the order votes are made and incorporating a FOS system in to the game that I would also try to keep count of.

[wilky]

Wilky

I'm pretty sure Ramcius is scum

The other three right above him is my scumlist via PoE since I'm townreading everybody else

So... why does the relative strength matter there.

I mean if I was looking at the playerlist and thinking that through process of elimination I was left with 2 players I find null and 1 I find very scummy i'd want to flip the very scummy one before the two null ones.

[wilky]

*yawn*

I've given several reasons for my scum read on you over the course of the game but if you insist on a case i'll try pencil that in later when i'm doing my wraith iso.

Also, where in any sense would it make sense for me to waste two days to get a result on you when I already think you are scum and I think you are definitely lynchable and expendable. I'd be wasting two nights on that result in all honestly.

i don't ask reasons, i ask for a real case, something that will show that i am scum 100%

Alright then, so what you want is a guilty before anyone can lynch you? Fine, show me a guilty for all your scum reads.

[wilky]

Wilky

Why do you care

Because i'm trying to figure out wether there's a relationship between your slot and the tchill slot.

*yawn*

I've given several reasons for my scum read on you over the course of the game but if you insist on a case i'll try pencil that in later when i'm doing my wraith iso.

Also, where in any sense would it make sense for me to waste two days to get a result on you when I already think you are scum and I think you are definitely lynchable and expendable. I'd be wasting two nights on that result in all honestly.

i don't ask reasons, i ask for a real case, something that will show that i am scum 100%

Alright then, so what you want is a guilty before anyone can lynch you? Fine, show me a guilty for all your scum reads.

Did i asked too much? Can't make believable case that would prove your scumread on me?

And your counter makes me laugh, i didn't asked guilty, i asked strong arguments, which apparently you can't provide, and i never complained about my scumreads not taking me serious, i don't care, if my scumreads aren't intimidated by me or whatever, all i care is other people to agree with me and lynch them

No I could make a strong case on you and as I said if you went through my iso you'd find reads that would be the basis of that case but what you asked for is 100% proof that you are scum. The only way to do that would be an investigation result...

[wilky]

I'm caught up on reading but at work so just a quick post invade wraith gets another few votes before I get back on

A vig kill on me denies us a cop result tomorrow so people suggesting that are wrong.
@OTM if you role block me tonight then I won't meet the requirements of copping someone two nights in a row and would need to start from scratch so I wouldn't be able to gain a result until n4 which the way things are going I won't even be here by.

[wilky]

I'm caught up on reading but at work so just a quick post invade wraith gets another few votes before I get back on

A vig kill on me denies us a cop result tomorrow so people suggesting that are wrong.
@OTM if you role block me tonight then I won't meet the requirements of copping someone two nights in a row and would need to start from scratch so I wouldn't be able to gain a result until n4 which the way things are going I won't even be here by.

If I block you and you tell the truth it’s like a check on you.

If I don’t block you and you tell the truth and you’re town it’s like two checks.

If I block you and you lie you’re caught scum.

If I don’t block you and you lie you’re caught scum.

I see zero down sides. Sure if I block you you don’t get a check but I check you.

Then again this is pure wifom so I may not.

And what if scum!wilky was to guess right on wether I was roleblocked or not? You would "clear" me as town but would then be wrong. Quite frankly, roleblocking me leaves too much to chance and we would be in the exact same position tomorrow as we are now which is that we'd be arguing over whether something is concrete or not. On top of that we would not have a cop result from me.

If you roleblock me i'm going to consider it a scum claim and concede that I was wrong on the OTM/hebi slip and that you are a scum roleblocker as it just denies too much information.

[wilky]

If I don’t block you and you say a result AND you’re town. << That is the predecessor.

Consider it how you like but it’s pretty much clear I am not scum and this threat is empty. I may roleblock I may not.

I already explained the stance and it is airtight.

If you’re scum and guess right the section is not met for “and you’re town”

And roleblocking you and you accurately saying you were blocked proves you have an action that you can tell I can block which Ergo confirms me as a blocker and confirms therefore I can block Davex

Consider that bolded part and think about it another way then. I am town you roleblock me and I confirm in thread that I have no result as I was roleblocked. That won't result with you conceding that I am town as I could have just guessed right which ergo proves my fucking point. You roleblocking me is pointless as it proves nothing on my alignment and denies us a cop result.

[wilky]

Im not seeing this wraith scum thing can someone point out why he is scum? I'm still going to case ram aswell just real life has gotten in the way a little over the past few days.

[wilky]

Out with friends I blocked Davesaz.

VOTE: Jungle

OTM can get fucked. My action failed

[wilky]

@OTM- I want to know what role blocking me has done for your read on my slot and why you seen it as a suitable option despite opposition by others and now we are without a guilty or a clear.

[wilky]

Even if it wasn't the case that OTM blocked me he was definitely the one that brought it to scums attention. It was poor play from OTM regardless and has cost us a result.

[wilky]

Why am I confirmed scum here exactly? Your poor play wether you were the one who roleblocked me or not has cost us a result.

[wilky]

I lost absolutely nothing. When I flip town lynch OTM, I don't care how unlikely it looked he was scum yesterday, I guarantee scum there now.

If your not scum your playing so dumb its unreal.

[wilky]

Kaede is right we need to here from jungle first

[wilky]

On that logic why aren't you considering me scum until it was proved I was blocked?

[wilky]

Scum!jungle would have been making a dumb play lying about the quest aswell.

[wilky]

@OTM: read the Ourobos flip role card. It will explain how Maria (and probably another person) have a group track.

I agree that Jungle needs to be here first.

Any reason the Wraith wagon isn't getting scrutiny yet? (I have a reason, family hasn't allowed me enough time to dig into it).

wilky, do you get confirmation the first night that your role is activated?

Nope noting at all first night

[wilky]

So you can conveniantly pick someone who doesn't visit somewhere?

[wilky]

The way I am reading Marias posts is that it was only her and ouroborous in the neighbourhood

[wilky]

If we are mass claiming I would prefer the track result before the mass claim

[wilky]

I struggle to see why scum jungle would take such a risk that would inevitably lead to his lynch the day after. This is the only thing stopping me wanting a speed lynch on jungle to be honest.

My cop attempt was on Maria, I think Maria is scum but was holding off for my results but since that never happened
VOTE: Maria

They have no reason to lie, even as scum. If they say they did visit and you're lynched as town, they are confirmed scum. Which isn't a good trade off.

eh fair it was matt

Matt can you confirm that you didn't visit anyone last night?

[wilky]

Prod dodge I will catch up properly tomorrow.

What I have read OTM is barely scratching the surface on motives behind anything and needs to think more about whats actually happening. Maria is still scum. Ram is still scum

[wilky]

Prod dodge I will catch up properly tomorrow.

What I have read OTM is barely scratching the surface on motives behind anything and needs to think more about whats actually happening. Maria is still scum. Ram is still scum

and you still couldn't make case to prove your scumread on me, some things never changes...

Its almost like I have been busy irl

Prod dodge I will catch up properly tomorrow.

What I have read OTM is barely scratching the surface on motives behind anything and needs to think more about whats actually happening. Maria is still scum. Ram is still scum

This is still scum too.

My flip will prove that.

My flip will prove otherwise...

Summary
MariaR is in a neighborhood with Dunn and Ouroboros created by Ouroboros.
That neighborhood also controls a tracker among all of them, track target must be agreed to by majority.
If there's 1 or more scum in the hood the track will always yield "didn't visit" regardless.
MariaR claims to track matt and getting "didn't visit"
matt confirms this.
wilky claims no result and blames OTM for it.
OTM says he targeted dave.

Alternative theory tying these together. MariaR is pun, and thus, regardless of whom was tracked, the result would be "didn't visit". projectmatt was selected (Ouroboros wanted it and MariaR knowing it could create a false negative went along with this) to falsely clear him as regardless of whether he took an action or not it would always display as him having not taken one due to MariaR's alignment being pun. willky's action failed because MariaR's role provided immunity to the investigation. (Alternatively, projectmatt has a blocking role and targeted willky.)

willky, Dunnstral, and OnTheMark are all town; MariaR and projectmatt completely messed up the town's actions.

Furthermore, JUNGLE is town who made a mistake.

My thinking is pretty much summed up here.

scum: ramcius, maria, dunn.

Talk to me about Maria/Dunn together, I can't see Maria/Dunn being linked due to the whole scout thing earlier by Maria.
Infact a scum!maria flip would heavily imply town!dunn to me.

Regarding Jungle:

Punreader's analysis assumes a: that scum!Jungle wouldn't gambit, b: that town would inevitably lynch scum!Jungle after these events making it a low chance of success.

I don't know who Jungle is and make it a policy not to dig. If someone wants to play as an alt and has the discipline to stay in character, more power to them. So I don't know if a gambit is likely or unlikely, I just know it can't be ruled out. The PLAN might have been for Impossibear to die, and scum!Jungle is then functionally a loud fruit vendor at very little risk. Not claiming it loses the possibility of using it at all. So claiming an outlandish quest might be a gambit to salvage the role's usefulness.

Having a competent mod design a quest with that degree of complexity and then allowing it to fail on a technicality when the intent was clear stretches credibility a little. I suppose a mod could be that hardcore and town!Jungle could make that mistake, but it seems very unlikely.

Moving on to the question of whether town would inevitably punish scum!Jungle with a lynch -- it seems that WIFOM might be king here and we might not do so simply on the "mistake".
But that is very short sighted, to excuse it as human error and not a possible gambit. If we look at Jungle

outside the quest info

, what would the read be? I maintain that the read should be scum based on the evidence.

There's scum gambits and then theres scum suicide. I still can't see any motivation for Jungle to do what he did as scum.

So tell me.
Why is it so hard for you to believe that a town player made an honest mistake and it must without a doubt be a scum player trying to manipulate town.

Because a moderator doesn’t require a submit after.

Find me any action ever in any theme game at all

That requires player A submit to Player B and then people do something then Player A does something.

I just don’t think that is a thing. It’s more likely a fruit vendor than a new type of action.

Does your role have information that proves this? If not its hearsay

So tell me.
Why is it so hard for you to believe that a town player made an honest mistake and it must without a doubt be a scum player trying to manipulate town.

Because a moderator doesn’t require a submit after.

Find me any action ever in any theme game at all

That requires player A submit to Player B and then people do something then Player A does something.

I just don’t think that is a thing. It’s more likely a fruit vendor than a new type of action.

This doesn't actually indicate anything btw, this isn't exactly a normal role in normal circumstances.

Yes loud scum fruit vendor is.

Mini Normal 1900 modded by Mastina.

Which is why if Jungle is scum go after punreader next

Both are town.

If you're gonna argue that scum was using the quest to waste town's time, then you gotta find suspects that helped town waste time by not helping with said quest.
I want names.

>when your 2 sr's are the biggest wagon
it's Christmas time to see who I can lynch first

Punreader, I’m town and we disagree. I happen to think you’re town too.
Not lynching scum Jungle is likely worse than lynching town Jungle.
I’m very concerned that scum Jungle could play a fruit vendor all the way to endgame.

How many broken quests would it take?

Sometimes ruling out the unlikely case is necessary. If logical answers always worked town win rates would be higher.
Scum lie and because they lie sometimes the unlikely answer is the correct one.

I already said I agree with a projectmatt lynch, if that is where consensus lies.
I see two scum being wagoned and that’s good imo.

Give him until the end of tomorrow. No result, then lynch Jungle.

[wilky]

I didn't.
I asked you to tell me who wasted time by not helping out with the quest.

And of course the only answers to this would be ouroborous and Ram and ouroborous is dead.

[wilky]

The quest itself is specifically a mechanism built to drag out the game.

ETL was majorly townread at the end of day one.

There was zero reason to day cop him.

Jungle’s reads read like manufactured bullshit designed to have everyone go “look at this shiny” “look at how shiny it is” while being fundamentally useless.

By your own admission Jungle was scumreading impossibear, now you say majority was townreading impossibear. So doesn't it then make impossibear the perfect target for jungle?

I didn't.
I asked you to tell me who wasted time by not helping out with the quest.

And of course the only answers to this would be ouroborous and Ram and ouroborous is dead.

what a surprise, someone, who have no time for more than a week to make case on me is throwing more shade my way i don't remember you volunteering to be guinea pig for q, when people were willing to wagon you

It wasn't casting shade at all. You disrupted the quest by unvoting yourself that is a fact. I was answering a question kaede had put out. I'm not going to apologise for not having time to create a full case just yet when I work a hella lot of hours during the week.

[wilky]

He was til at the end of day said ETL was a townread.
Why cop a townread everyone else does?

It’s only to keep up appearances.

Announcing a townread on his scumread that he is going to try and publicly daycop to push mafia away from night killing him?

Again, I ask you to dig deeper down than very surface read material. Your not looking at any motivation or logic.

[wilky]

Where are we in terms of votes on Matt?

[wilky]

VOTE: matt

Cute bussing by Maria though...

[wilky]

Case on Ram (because the fact that I have reasons for him being scum all through my iso is apparently irrelevant and doesn't count according to him).

Spoiler:

well, in my past large themes there wasn't, but i trust you on this

still, i'd prefer Tchill over Wilky, he came after both miller claims, so i feel it might be scum trying take advantage of miller claims

This makes no sense at all. Why would scum make up a hider role and claim it because of 2 claimed millers?

? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ?? ? ?

Why would he just not claim it if that was an issue on his radar? Why would he ever be getting protection from investigative roles when he explicitly claimed something that doesn't require investigative roles?

You're just scum pushing a mislynch to distract from Wilky here well over 90% of the time.

VOTE: Wilky

fine, have your way

Really bad vote.

This seems like such an easy way to hop on to my wagon but brush your hands off any backlash once I flip town.

VOTE: Ramcius

Maybe, or maybe i just got ML'ed D1 way too many times for going against strong vocal players

P-edit: RC, i don't have gladiator role this time, so i can't change your opinion on me

Oh look, Scum!Ram pulling out the bad town and mislynch bait stops early too defer attention from himself.

Sure, that's true, but given all that like we got Willy to l2 almost effortlessly and this Ramcius push has gotten far less traction.

Why you comparing mine and Wilky wagons traction? He claimed miller in scummy manner, while what i did? Wanted someone else lynched? Voted myself to indicate how ridiculous i find this push "Ram is scummy"? I hear that in pretty much every game and should i make list of games, where i got ML'ed D1?

This is not a town reaction to Ouroboros post. Even more so now we know for sure that Ouro was a town slot. Far too overly defensive.

No I'm pretty sure everyone agreed it was the way they claimed not the claim itself. Can I persuade you to help me run up Ramcius?

I spectated that Bastard game GIF modded, it seems to me that Ramcius is the type of player that plays in a way that rubs ppl the wrong way and ends up getting himself lynched, ill give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

This sort of thing is what I'm worried about since the last game I played had a D1 VI lynch and I don't want to repeat that. That's why I asked Maria about him, to see if he's known to be a VI. But I still can't get over how his jump onto Wilky looked like he just wanted RC to stop pushing him. Do you think that's something Town Ramcius would do?

I just realised i can't change RC mind and going against him would ended in my own lynch, so i decided settle for my 2nd scumread and give RC his way. There are people i feel like arguing and there are people i try reason a bit and just give their way, if they seems unmovable.

As for VI, i disagree with that, it's just that people find my methods scummy or rather not up to this site meta and i get ML'ed way too often D1 to my liking.

Also, we played in Beneath the Mask, so you have some first hand experience with me and my methods

Again where is the town motivation in this post? It literally says that if he can't steamroller over someone he will just sheep them and follow them.

well, in my past large themes there wasn't, but i trust you on this

still, i'd prefer Tchill over Wilky, he came after both miller claims, so i feel it might be scum trying take advantage of miller claims

final answer
I would lean it a few percentage points towards it being his town meta although this result isn't especially conclusive
definitely enough to not want to lynch him today, yall can clusterfuck him later in the game when me and anony are gone if you want

@Ramcius???????????????????????????????????????????????????/
How the fuck is he scum trying to take advantage of miller claims in what way does claiming that as scum take advantage of miller claims?

Are you believe some weird hider claim that isn't weak? Or it's more likely scum trying smuggle in some fishy claim during confusion caused by millers and attracting less attention than it would get normally, and simultaneously getting protection form investigative roles?

It was these 2 posts that gave me the impression, but I do see where I missed the implied Wilky scumread in that first one.

UNVOTE:

Actually I don't see the implication of Scum!me in those posts at all. In the first post there was still very much a wagon on me and saying he preferred Tchill to me looks more to me like he prefers Tchill to the current wagon rather than Tchill to his second scum read (if that makes any sense i'm not sure i'm explaining it well).

The second post refers to both me and dave as "millers", not claimed millers, or claimed pr's or even claimed roles just simply "millers" which would imply he doesn't doubt either the claims.

Oh boy, i don't think anyone believes there 2 scums in you, Dave and Tchill, so question is which one of you is scum? Dave is townread by majority, so i leave him out, as i did before, therefore it's you and Tchill. At this point i hope it's obvious, why you and Dave are millers, if Tchill is scum trying to use fuss caused by millers

I just quoted this for the quote wall, It has one of my posts in and I still wholeheartedly stand by that too.

Also can anyone confirm that's something Ram does on every game?

I'm slowly turning ok with a ram wagon considering he was a

lot

more cocky and less team playerish/excuses like he's trying now I was biting my tongue cause I was just waiting for him to do something but hey.
I'm coming around to Ram and that vote on Nero was bad so I might take back my nero sr

Voting lurkers is never bad idea, that's brings fact that you aren't very active either

Also, i won't self meta, but why you think i could win power struggle against RC and not get lynched for standing in his way?

Again another bad post. So early in the game and Ram wasn't really under much pressure at that point but his whole demeanour is all about preserving himself from being the lynch rather than finding scum to lynch. This is something that is noticeable in most of Ram's posts tbh.

Wilky>Ram>??? (this one is hidden)>Nero

i thought we were friends...

I'm trying this new thing where I have everyone as town until they give me reason otherwise (tbh it's harder then normal) and well
I thought otherwise

Do i really have to bring cocky Ram out to prove you that i'm town?

So where's this cocky Ram you have proved yourself to no one...

I think a few of Vent's posts after this whole tunnel started were icky, but that's... pretty much it.

I'm against the tunnel because I think it's going to be a net negative for the rest of the game. Scumflips by themselves are useless and could even benefit scum in the worst scenarios.

I don't like this post, it feels like Ank is trying save Vent and preparing for worst case scenario by doing some damage control after Vent will flip red

So Ram, who hadn't pushed Vent before now, hadn't voted vent before now, had only a little interaction with vent before then suddenly starts to push on Ank claiming that Ank is scum with vent trying to save him. Hmm... Or Ram is scum with Vent, realised the lynch was inevitable and now is lining up the mislynch target for later.

I think day 1 scumlynches are a net negative for town unless they're way ahead of where they're supposed to be relative to the amount of information they have.

This is not that type of situation at all because this Vent-push has drowned out 80% of the game. Even if Vent does flip scum, where does that get us, exactly? Limited information based on associations towards that slot and very little else directly, and less indirect information because this push was brute forced through.

What you suggesting then? Flip someone else? Who have enough associations and is scummy enough for it?

I see you complaining how bad Vent scumflip would be, but i don't see you doing something substantial to change it,

do you really need RC permission to push someone else?

Also, little known fact, but you there are other methods to find scums than just rely on postflip associations

Regarding the bold part that's only a little ironic considering you seem to need his permission. Again just setting up Ank as mislynch.

VOTE: Ank

i dislike Ank's answrs at end of the day, i disliked that hammer and now

i have no idea why she wants lynch lurker

Says Ram who has a hard-on for lynching lurkers...

Ok. You believe what you want to believe. I'll go with occam's razor.

your Ocam's razor says GiF put 2 millers again instead of messing with us by adding scum miller and normal one?

I mean its pretty clear that Occam's razor would point to there being 2 millers again considering the mod has apparently done it more than once. The question then is wether Occam's Razor is right in this instance or not...

tbh, i don't see any reason keep this q on me, when RC agreed to lynch Tchill

UNVOTE:

if anyone wonder what i just did - Impo is in second place on my wagon now

So Ram didn't disrupt the quest no? Kaede had a point on asking who would have disrupted the quest to help a scum!jungle. But this is scum disrupting the quest despite of jungles alignment.

Then in that case why are you saying “have fun with that I guess”

Wouldn’t you work with your townread? Who do you town and scumread?

I work with everyone, not with just townreads. In your case, i just don't see how i could help you without losing my patience and telling everything

I'm pretty sure Tchill/Wilky have 1 scum in, Ank is another of my scumread, cause i didn't like their reactions and they aren't doing much to solve game, last one prob in lurkers - Maria/Wraith/Dunn/Kokichi

as for town

- Ouroboros, Impo, Jungle,

Project,

Dave, alchemist (this one just rust on other people's read on him) and your slot now, you got promoted from scum/lurker pile to town pile

You should vote ProjectMatt then!

VOTE: ProjectMatt

sure

i mean, not really. the only reason i switched from you to dunnstral is because you reacted semi-decently to the pressure on you, and it seemed like dunnscum was slipping under the radar.

what made you decide to vote me, ramcius?

Peer pressure

i mean, not really. the only reason i switched from you to dunnstral is because you reacted semi-decently to the pressure on you, and it seemed like dunnscum was slipping under the radar.

what made you decide to vote me, ramcius?

Peer pressure

do you think im mafia? why or why not?

i had townlean on Nero,

y

ou give me scum vibes

, but it might be just your playstyle, so null i'd say

So within two days Ram has gone from Projectmatt town to voting projectmatt because of peer pressure to scum reading projectmatt. Where is the read progression here? Fuck me why is Ram even still alive right now.

*yawn*

I've given several reasons for my scum read on you over the course of the game but if you insist on a case i'll try pencil that in later when i'm doing my wraith iso.

Also, where in any sense would it make sense for me to waste two days to get a result on you when I already think you are scum and I think you are definitely lynchable and expendable. I'd be wasting two nights on that result in all honestly.

i don't ask reasons, i ask for a real case, something that will show that i am scum 100%

*yawn*

I've given several reasons for my scum read on you over the course of the game but if you insist on a case i'll try pencil that in later when i'm doing my wraith iso.

Also, where in any sense would it make sense for me to waste two days to get a result on you when I already think you are scum and I think you are definitely lynchable and expendable. I'd be wasting two nights on that result in all honestly.

i don't ask reasons, i ask for a real case, something that will show that i am scum 100%

Alright then, so what you want is a guilty before anyone can lynch you? Fine, show me a guilty for all your scum reads.

Did i asked too much? Can't make believable case that would prove your scumread on me?

And your counter makes me laugh, i didn't asked guilty, i asked strong arguments, which apparently you can't provide, and i never complained about my scumreads not taking me serious, i don't care, if my scumreads aren't intimidated by me or whatever, all i care is other people to agree with me and lynch them

Again nonsense from Ram that wanted something that would 100% prove him as scum (the only thing that could do so is investagitive results) yet backtracks and says that isn't what he wanted.

Ram was insisting that the only way a scumread on him can be taken serious is if a case is compiled into one post. Apparently all the reasons in your iso means nothing but now the same goes for Ram. I want cases built for every one of your scum reads and compiled into seperate posts for each player, otherwise by your own reasoning they won't be real scum reads.

[wilky]

I voted you because of how poorly you were playing it literally had jack shit to do with what RC was doing. In fact if you look i'm not a player who blindly followed RC anywhere this game.

No i'm not saying you're scum for reaction testing Ank, i'm saying you're scum because it wasn't a reaction test and that's a bullshit notion you have created afterwards.

Your read on Matt

DID DID DID

change in 2 days the first quote I posted was on the Sunday where you had him in your town pile. By the Tuesday you were voting him and told him you thought he was scum. Don't lie it only makes it worse for yourself in the long run scum.

Not on day start no?? Is that why only a couple posts later you provided a list of more suitable lurkers to lynch instead? Bullshit your backtracking badly.

What else shows you are scum 100% bar a guilty or other PR result?? Absolutely nothing otherwise mafia would be such an easy game that would always end in a perfect town win.

VC's aren't everything a large part of the living player list has expressed they'd be willing to lynch you.

Yes you tried to push it onto me but the quest was almost done on you. You waited until L-2 before you unvoted if you were purely doing it to stop an Oroborous hammer you would have unvoted as soon as RC said he would hammer but you waited longer to disrupt the quest.

Now c'mon I believe you have some cases to right.

[wilky]

Ram is town. Wilky is still prob scum.

Stop saying so many wall posts people.

If you call the two posts from me and Ram there wall posts then i'd like to see what you call a real wall post. If you mean my case it was in spoilers for a reason and I only did it because Ram kept insisting. Either way suck it up and play the game regardless.

[wilky]

I literally gave reasons for voting you when I did. I also gave reasons for voting vent (the post timings convinced me), I then explained my I-turn on Ank because the more I thought about it the more I thought it would be a very poor scum gambit.

Literally everything you have thrown at me there I have already explained you must try harder.

So you can't remember why you townread Matt? Despite insisting you didn't town read him may I add... Yeah.... OK

False guilties? i.e a Miller or GF and I doubt you'd be a miller without claiming by now.

Oh so scum can't bus now no??

[wilky]

I'll catch up tomorrow been a long week at work already

[wilky]

100% scum in Maria/Dave if both were town pmatt would've said he visited for x2 mislynches

VOTE: Maria

[wilky]

Phone posting sucks I got about 5 ninjas there

[wilky]

Oh wait...actually hang on.

ETL's vig shot is explained if ETL tried to shoot Maria and someone doctored Kaede.

I'm sure impossibear did crumb that Maria was going to be their target. I'll go find it after this post.

@Wilky who are you copping?

@Kaede that makes a lot more sense. However, I kinda think it's Dave here. Ouroborous would have had to have visited you as an IC for the copy to work yeah?

I'm not going to answer that and give scum a chance to change it/interfere with it.

I have to go now running late for carpool stuff

VOTE: Davesaz

I kinda think it's Dave and if it's not then it is worth the confirmation of a town doc existing and then being able to save themselves and Kaede each night.

@Kaede: Do you know if this would work with your role? Town Doctor claims then saves you each night. You target town doctor each night and then you save one another.

can someone run me through why Maria is scum? cos I still think Dave is scum. Maybe both, who knows?

Could be both but mechanically Maria was the only one in the hood when the visit on pmatt happened.

[wilky]

ok, I'll trust you there for today. dunn and pun can be on hold until i get more info tomorrow.

Investigative abilities should be focused on this group! Targeting outside the PoE will be considered a scumclaim.

higher priority

projectmatt
davesaz
verylazy/kokichi
mariaR

the rest

ankamius
dunnstral
punreader

I think we have a good plan of action right now. The only thing left for today is

Maria to provide the name of the other neighbor

, if such a person even exists. pmatt's flip will indicate lies or not.

and then we will shoot accordingly.

ETL

This could possibly be a crumb here.I could have sworn there was another really subtle Maria crumb but I can't find it now. Impossibear does spend a lot of yesterday on Maria too though so a Maria shot makes sense.

Another thing I thought of is the reason Maria/Dave wanted to keep one another alive could be that they are both scum and want one of them to coast off of "finding the other scum" in the neighbourhood. It does make them wanting to keep each other alive make a little more sense on Maria's behalf when she knew she would end up being conf scum.

[wilky]

Ugh, action failed again. Fairly obvious I won't be getting a result here.

Jungle can you tell us about your quest today? I'm with kaede in thinking today should be the last chance to get a quest done.

[wilky]

Just went through dunnstrals iso. Dunn hard defended Maria most of the game and defended Maria not posting the track results/hood partner. Dunn also never got on the Maria lynch.
Dunn got on the projectmatt wagon but backed off when the lynch looked likely.
Dunn wasn't on the vent lynch.
Dunn seemed to want Wraith dead for a fair bit and Wraith flipped town.
How many scum was it we thought was likely earlier? I also see scum!Dunn implicating another 2 players as scum one moreso than the other but I want to see more interactions before disclosing who it was

[wilky]

The main thing about dunn is that matt was also hardcore tunneling him until MariaR softcleared him

I mean nero and Maria were both scum and did theater with each other. I could see Dunn being involved in that.

Pretty much this. I'm phone posting just now so getting everything into a post is awkward aswell but Dunn was right up for a Jungle lynch when that wagon was gaining traction after we never got a daycop on impossibear yet after that wagon died down Dunn stated that Jungle would mechanically be the wrong lynch and we shouldn't lynch there.

[wilky]

Also thanks guys for finally listening to me on Maria. Only took 2 days.

If it's worth any consolation I scum read Maria from d1 but she was my first cop target and I was holding off a bit until I got a result.

[wilky]

Sorry guys been busy last few days. I still think Dunn is our best lynch here, willing to put Dave as town just now. Will compromise with Jungle if need be at end of day.

VOTE: Dunn

[wilky]

Why do you think it’s Dunn?

Just went through dunnstrals iso. Dunn hard defended Maria most of the game and defended Maria not posting the track results/hood partner. Dunn also never got on the Maria lynch.
Dunn got on the projectmatt wagon but backed off when the lynch looked likely.
Dunn wasn't on the vent lynch.
Dunn seemed to want Wraith dead for a fair bit and Wraith flipped town.
How many scum was it we thought was likely earlier? I also see scum!Dunn implicating another 2 players as scum one moreso than the other but I want to see more interactions before disclosing who it was

The main thing about dunn is that matt was also hardcore tunneling him until MariaR softcleared him

I mean nero and Maria were both scum and did theater with each other. I could see Dunn being involved in that.

Pretty much this. I'm phone posting just now so getting everything into a post is awkward aswell but Dunn was right up for a Jungle lynch when that wagon was gaining traction after we never got a daycop on impossibear yet after that wagon died down Dunn stated that Jungle would mechanically be the wrong lynch and we shouldn't lynch there.

[wilky]

This game is really not that hard.
If mafia can't both action and kill, JUNGLE becomes conftown. (Sadly, I don't expect this to be the case, but we're in for a VERY pleasant surprise if so.)
Dunnstral is soft-conftown.
Kaede is hard-conftown.
I have hard-townreads on Ankamius and YT.
I know myself to be town.

That narrows the pool down to wilky/Kokichi Oma/Alchemist21/davesaz.

We have four lynches by my math. (1, 10 > 8. 2, 8 > 6. 3, 6 > 4.) We could literally lynch all of them and we would win, not even going into additional reasons for narrowing the pool down further. (Namely, reasonable townread on wilky and soft townread on Kokichi Oma.)

Pagetopping this part because it's important enough to warrant a repeat and not be missed.

Change any player in that list with Dunn and i'll get on board with this. I'll even eat the lynch today as long as Dunn gets swapped into this list. Until then my votes not moving.

[wilky]

Nonsense Dunn is not confirmed town. Nowhere in Maria's role on does it say she has to post in the thread for her target. It was a gambit and now the question is wether the gambit was done on genuine town or a scum partner.

I'll L-1 Dave to get this over and done with but tomorrow we lynch Dunn

VOTE: Dave L-1

[wilky]

Go ahead lynch me just lynch Dunn afterwards.

Miller Slow Cop - Nick Valentine

N1+2 - Maria No Result
N3+4 - Ram/YT No Result

[wilky]

why

if you're going by how useless he's been, then that applies to half the playerlist still alive, if not more

it’s not how useless he’s been. it’s his vote against davesaz that concerns me, in that it felt extremely bandwagon-y when he literally had came into nowhere into the thread and immediately voted him. he was already towards the top of my priority list, and that just reinforced my scumread on him.

Fact of the matter is that as long asDave is alive too many players are going to be caught up on him. I'd rather just get Dave dealt with so we can move on and actually lynch Dunn to win the game

[wilky]

Let's do what we should've done yesterday
VOTE: Dunn

@kaede show why I'm scum or I'll be willing to lynch you too.

[wilky]

@alchemist - If you read my full ISO you'd see i've fully claimed everything.

Nick Valentine is my character and I am a Miller Slow cop

N1/2 - Mariar - No results
N3/4 - Ram/YT - No results
N5- ??? Not going to say who I went for night 5.

[wilky]

Pun makes a really good point on rmoj actually that as a fruit vendor would he also have the ability to roleblock/interfere and kill. @Rmoj do you get told who has been sent the result?

[wilky]

VOTE: Kokichi

[wilky]

Sorry guys been working away from home and forgot to bring the charger for my laptop with me. Heading home tomorrow to get it but a phone post for now.

Still happy for a kokichi lynch but I still think Dunn is the last scum.

If there's no result from RMOJ tomorrow he really needs to go though this has gone on for too long.

How many lynches do we reckon we have?

[wilky]

I've only received a pm every second night

This was me

VOTE: dunn

I can see dunn as scum.

Why?

[wilky]

Dunn are you scum claiming? You should know more than anyone that me and Maki couldn't be faking those interactions.

D6 and that's what your biggest scum read is based on? What about the case I provided on Dunn what's your thoughts there?

[wilky]

Still happy for a kokichi lynch but I still think Dunn is the last scum.

Weird how wilky is willing to lynch dave and kokichi but only thinks I'm scum throughout

He gave the same line when he voted dave

I actually scum read you and kokichi. My read on you was stronger but now I'm not so sure because kokichis biggest scum read was based on very little.

Dave I never denied would flip green but the Dave lynch had to happen before mylo/lylo 100%.

Tell me this Dunn what would scum me benefit from L-1ing Dave who was definitely mislynch bait whilst saying he'd flip town? Surely a scum wilky would try push a lynch elsewhere and leave Dave for that mylo/lylo.

I also don't think I'd have it in my scum range to be on a lynch wagon that I'd already declared would be town but that's harder to prove

[wilky]

It's not What I'm doing with you though is it? Main difference being that you're not lynch bait

[wilky]

unvote before Kokichi self-hammers

Why? Surely only a scum kokichi self votes here and working on the consensus we have one scum then game over.

[wilky]

@kokichi message never came across as I meant it. What I meant was that only scum would self hammer and that wouldn't happen on the consensus of being last scum and town wouldn't self hammer either.

[wilky]

Ank, pun and yt are all town.

That post from RMOJ is proper sketchy because it shows he has obviously been reading the thread and not posting. Thus should 100% be last day for RMOJ to get a quest through though so we shouldn't lynch there.

Lynch today should be in kokichi or Dunn and we either need to get a flip or create some discussion because this game is dying as it stands.

@Punn if you're doing a read reset can we get a reads list?

[wilky]

@pun when will you be back to normal activity?

I think we should wait for Pun to come back and for the mod to decide on what happens with jungle and then decide on a lynch. Letting the game stall like this won't help town at all.

@yt can I get an updated reads list from you? I'm not quite sure where your reads are atm.

[wilky]

Is there anything worrying you about Pun that drops him out of the first two brackets? I know you've expressed concern at me since replacing in but I don't recall any concerns you've had on pun.

If no one claims a result from the quest tomorrow does that render rmoj confirmed scum in your eyes?

[wilky]

That second question can be branched out to everyone aswell.

[wilky]

Why are you unsure about RMOJ? We at least know his quests exist, so he could only be scum if he’s lying about what they do. I don’t think it makes sense to Townread me for quest-based reasons without also Townreading RMOJ.

It's more the case that we have had nothing at all from rmoj despite him not being role blocked due to quests still being given out. RMOJ also said early in the game that the quests would become more broken and more difficult as the game went on but I fail to see how this current challenge is more broken or more difficult than the d2 quest impossibear.

I still maintain as I said earlier that I really can't think of any scum motivation for what rmoj has done which still makes me really want to believe he is town but that doesn't mean that scum didn't have a plan that hasn't worked out as they planned.

[wilky]

Is there anything worrying you about Pun that drops him out of the first two brackets? I know you've expressed concern at me since replacing in but I don't recall any concerns you've had on pun.

If no one claims a result from the quest tomorrow does that render rmoj confirmed scum in your eyes?

a). his claim and him not yet analyzing things when he said he would do so at the start of the day phase. if he follows through with it and i like what i see, my view would change.

b). yes; but if it shows up, he’s nearly conftown. luckily, i’m guessing we won’t be having another day phase, but we’ll just have to see how things go.

his gameplay has had that strange gut feeling of lurky scum to me, so he’s been on my radar for quite some time. i can try to go into more detail on precisely why i have suspected him later this day phase if i can rob enough time for it.

Is the bolded part in relation to rmoj? I think the fact he posted shortly after mod said he was replacing him pretty sus. Just seemed like he was lurking away and actually keeping up with the game but not posting. I guess we just need to await mod decision on the rmoj in/out thing and go from there.

[wilky]

maybe I’m just sore that you beat me by getting away with a fake guilty as scum!

Is This it? Jesus Christ i really hope you are scum now.

[wilky]

2 days until deadline guys can we get a move on now? We aren't really getting anywhere atm

[wilky]

Can confirm that I received a PM from the mod about the quest. I got no result from my cop but I also received something else in my pm that i'm going to ask the mod a question about before I post it in here.

Are we in mylo now? I'm still thinking that scum is in either of rmoj/dunn but I don't want to rush on a vote if this is mylo.

[wilky]

We still don't have a completed quest on d7

[wilky]

I'll be fully caught up later.

It wasn't a cop pm I got it was a party starter, I wanted to clarify with the mod that if I was blocked two nights ago if I copped the same person tonight would I get a result but I won't so I doubt we'll get a result from me at all this game.

@rmoj how did you manage to see who pun visited?

[wilky]

Right these last few pages are screwing with me now.

@rmoj are you now saying that the quest was for a cop to a random player then?
@pun surely you finding the evidence that maria and projectmatt did fight your pushes does help find that last scum. Maybe not for you finding the last scum but it could help rmoj (and maybe others) clear you as town.

Ugh, I think the last scum is in pun/rmoj/dunn which is 1 more player than I came into the day suspecting.

[wilky]

If it's not either of you two, it's wilky

Albeit this is wifom but scum!me fake claiming a cop role would have at least outed an inno by now.

[wilky]

At some point today i'm going to have a look at pun/projectmatts interactions. I think maria's interactions with pun won't show to much because maria became caught scum b

[wilky]

ebwop: At some point today i'm going to have a look at pun/projectmatts interactions. I think maria's interactions with pun won't show to much because maria became caught scum but i'll have a look at interactions pre-caught scum maria and see what I find.

I still want to know what rmoj claims his quest yesterday was now before I go any further on that slot.

[wilky]

@dunn who do you think last scum is? And why did you risk the vote on pun before any discussion was had?

[wilky]

Just skim read just now so I've skipped the long posts from pun just now that ill read tomorrow.

Been in the docs all day today and may have to go back to hospital tomorrow but I've been pretty drugged up today from the docs so comprehending even the simple posts here is a little difficult.

I'm still waiting for rmoj to answer what yesterday's quest gave and if he doesn't answer I'm willing to vote there.

[wilky]

So what does that wall of quotes provide Dunn? At least show why its scummy.

Also @pun how exactly is rmoj cleared by role? I mean its confirmed that he gives some sort of quests but we still don't have a completed quest from him and the quest from yesterday should have been fulfilled. I'm starting to really suspect rmoj now, no one has been given the cop pm that was promised and he still hasn't answered my question on the quest despite me asking twice now and someone else, I forget who, quoting it aswell.

[wilky]

Thanks for the birthday wishes prof