mini normal 2027: advice mafia (endgrame)

[Completly Trustworthy]

Hello, this is my first mini game on this site.
VOTE: I Am Innocent, since they are surely not innocent.
Garmr, why are you not voting, do you dislike the rvs stage?

[Completly Trustworthy]

Nice to see you again Skygazer.
Also, Wh4t, why did you change your vote?

[Completly Trustworthy]

I doubt Radiant Cowbells is lying,since claiming in an unusual way like this could cause investigative roles to come after him at night. If he is scum, then that would be really bad for him. I don't know whether or not he's pulling some type of gambit though, I've read through a few games of his and he was always someone difficult to read.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Also, Skygazer, what is the thing I did? I honestly don't know what you are talking about.

[Completly Trustworthy]

I Am Innocent, why don't you get the Saudade wagon? Both Havo and texcat explained their reasons for voting him in 75 and 71. Do you not agree with their reasoning? If so, then please explain why. As for me, I found Saudade's entrance very weird and would like to know why he felt the need to declare he was town right off the bat.


Now I have some questions to ask people
1. Please provide a link to completed games with you as scum and town
2. What do you believe is the optimal scumhunting strategy? What scumtells do you think are overrated?
3. How would you describe your playstyle as scum?
4. Do you enjoy being scum or town more?

My answers
1. I cannot provide links since I have only played one other game on this site and its ongoing
2. It's best to pay attention to what people have to say about others and whether their actions match up with their words. The ways in which players treat each other contains far more information than that which can be gained through observing the playstyles of individual players, which are all different and can be hard to read. Radiant Cowbells is an example of a player who is often mislynched due to acting really scummy(at least in the games I have read through.)
3. As scum, I try to get people who I think can be mislynched to create content which puts them further into trouble or allows me to present a case against them later. I always want a member of the town to be on the defensive, since that means little attention is paid to me. In addition, I try to post a lot, but prefer to avoid fluff. If I keep saying productive things or elaborate on my opinions, then eventually someone else will mess up naturally and I can capitalize on the opportunity.
4. I prefer being scum or third party the most because you are the active force in the game that everyone else is trying to stop, it is very fun to try to try and outwit all your competitors.

[Completly Trustworthy]

I never said anything about your reason for voting Saudade, Skygazer. I only provided links to explain Havo and texcat's motives and then explained why I was offput by his entrance.
Radiant, your claim was more exact and included an actual role. If you asked everyone here whether they are town, all would say yes. So Saudade's declaration that he is town seems forced or LAMIST to me. If I knew Saudade's reason for including that unneccessary comment, I would feel less suspicious.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Right now, my best scumread is I Am Innocent. Here is why his posts have pinged me.
In 22, I Am Innocent changes his vote because of something extremely vague Skygazer said, I still don't understand his reasoning for that.
In 31, he claims texcat's entrance was suspicious, but why did he change his vote to me afterwards if that was something he believed?
He continues his push in 41 while still voting for me instead of him.
In 43, he goes off topic to ask texcat what their scumreads are. This seems like a way to have someone else accused without directly doing it.
In55, he makes a complete fluff post that merely asks for other players to make contributions.
Then in 61, he points fingers at DoubtingThomas and Texcat, but doesn't explain what they did to be so suspicious. He merely says the same thing as what DoubtingThomas did, whatever that happens to mean
He offers an explanation for why he is voting me over others in 77, but gives no reasons for why I am scumread. In fact, he has said nothing about me this entire game. Also, his statement that he will always be on the largest wagon seems like an excuse to join large wagons easily without being suspected. Finally this post was only made after he was called out and could have been after the fact justification.
In his latest post 79, he defends Saudade for no reason as I called out earlier.

If I Am Innocent is not scum, I would like some explanations from them as to why I am scumread, what makes him think Saudade is not scum, and what was so suspicious about Texcat's entrance.
I believe that any scum players will be trying to fly under the radar with Saudade, Radiant Cowbells,and Doubting Thomas starting arguments. In my experience, scum are not usually so blatant and forthright when it comes to suspicious behavior. That is why I am not willing to jump on any wagons involving them right now, though I may later.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Havo and Saudade, can you review my case and focus on IAI for a while? It feels like its been forgotten in the midst of various arguments and I believe that we need to start talking about things that don't involve Saudade and DT.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Saudade's posts seemed to be made by someone trying to bait negative responses and then test how everyone reacted. Also he made posts like 138, 189, and 234 that either support this point or make me think he cares about the town finding scum.
Havo's insistence on getting a response from Saudade and calming down after finally obtaining a link to the game seemed to be like a member of the town pressuring someone they felt suspicious to me. Also the emotion they showed would be hard to fake by scum in my opinion, they seemed to be really frustrated. Scum would not have that much of a reaction from fake scumhunting.
Overall I think the dispute was an example of a town on town conflict and the people who sat out the argument are most likely to be scum.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Here are some questions for players I want to hear more from:
What are your reads so far Sky?
Garmr, why did you put Texcat as leaning town in your readslist? I don't think you've said much about them.
Horrordude, you said you scumread DT at one point, what caused you to change your mind?

[Completly Trustworthy]

We should wait for IAI to respond or for his replacement to get a chance to speak before even thinking about hammering. We have a lot of time left to talk, lets not be too hasty and waste it.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Texcat, can you explain what made you suspect Saudade initially? You alluded to having some speculation about his potential motivations for entering as he did in 71, but I would like you to further elaborate on why you think a scum player would bother acting like Saudade did. Also, are you less suspicious of him now that you have voted for IAI? If not, then which of them do you think is more likely to be scum?

[Completly Trustworthy]

Can you further explain your reason for suspecting Havo RC? I'm currently townreading them since I believe their insistence on making Saudade answer a question and the emotion showed indicate that they are a townie that cares about scumhunting.

[Completly Trustworthy]

What the town really needs right now is for Frederick or IAI to get replaced, their needs to be more content from their slots. I hope the mod pays attention to the fact that they haven't picked up their prods.
I'm starting to believe IAI might not be scum though, the lack of a counterwagon or push to stop people from voting him seems to indicate the scum are satisfied with this gamestate.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Garmr, why did you claim in 447 when you were nowhere near l-1? That's anti-town since if you are really vt, then the scum will be able to narrow down who is a pr. I could believe you were gambitting in that post if you claimed to be a pr, but the presence of a vt is not something that will cause scum to reconsider their night actions or behave differently. So the claim seems a little LAMIST to me since it essentially translates to "I am town".
VOTE: Garmr

[Completly Trustworthy]

I could also ask you why did something you knew was anti-town while being town yourself. The only thing I can think of is that the claim was some type of gambit, but I'm struggling to figure out what it would be supposed to accomplish.

[Completly Trustworthy]

FA, why do you think there is an enormous amount of buddying going on? Also, who do you think the scumteam is trying to pocket if that is the case?

[Completly Trustworthy]

Hello, Gamma Emerald, how much of the game have you read?

[Completly Trustworthy]

Fa, why does the Worst not come of as scummy to you? Also, can you please elaborate on why you think Wh4t and Texcat are both members of the scumteam? They have hardly any significant interactions with each other.

[Completly Trustworthy]

However, I do agree that Wh4t might be scum. 361 is especially suspicious to me because its a threat made in a serious manner to someone who is voting him that is then seemingly forgotten. I think the anger Wh4t is supposedly feeling to being voted for is faked and they are just trying to scare people off.

[Completly Trustworthy]

I'm still suspicious of IAI/Gamma Emerald. Both people in the slot have been acting somewhat scummy. In fact, Gamma Emerald has done nothing but comment on random posts from the game without pushing anyone or posting reads. I would like some more content from them before I become willing to join another wagon.
UNVOTE: Garmr

[Completly Trustworthy]

However, I do scumread FA at the moment as well because of the following posts:
In 102, he pushes a controversial player for very weak reasoning
He shades people without strong pushes in 105 and 106
He is incredibly defensive and says Wh4t scumread him incorrectly in 108
He then continues to argue against WH4t without admitting he is wrong and even says 108 is justified in 241
He moves to the largest wagon after not saying anything about IAI previously in 247
In 685, FA names three suspicious players as scum with a strange amount of certainty and little explanations for why he developed negative opinions of people like Wh4t or Skygazer.

[Completly Trustworthy]

RC, how likely is it that Gamma Emerald and FA are scum together in your opinion? 247 and 281 seem to indicate they aren't teammates, that's why I'm conflicted.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Krazy, can you produce a case for FA being town? Please mention specific posts and interactions that indicate that is the case. Also, I summarized some of FA's suspicious behavior in 881, so please respond to that as well.

[Completly Trustworthy]

I currently believe RC is town because of the fact that he is trying to solve the game and claimed jailkeeper enabler. I believe he made that claim to make it less likely the mafia would nk him, something he said he was worried about. Scum players don't need to attract unwanted attention with a claim within the first 50 posts and never need to worry about getting killed at night. Therefore, he seems more trustworthy than Krazy at this point, who seems to want to start a counterwagon.

[Completly Trustworthy]

VOTE: FA_Q2

[Completly Trustworthy]

That's L-1 by the way, nobody hammers just yet.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Krazy, your arguments to defend FA are really weak. He did not "push slots to play better", he said he wanted a wagon on Saudade and stated Thomas was active lurking, which is considered a major scumtell. There was never a time when he told them to play better or gave an alternative. Also, why do you suspect Wh4t so much? I would like you to case him. The only suspicious posts he made in my opinion were 361 and 460, but they don't justify voting him over FA or Gamma Emerald/IAI in my opinion.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Right now, TW is also scummy to me. They keep talking about lynching Texcat, but have voted for Garmr and FA instead of pushing their scumread. They also quickly jumped off FA's wagon and had odd interactions with Krazy. For instance, TW felt the need to say that he and Krazy were "town together".

[Completly Trustworthy]

So right now, I think the most likely scumteam is Krazy/TW/FA.

[Completly Trustworthy]

This wagon is taking effort to get through with multiple different people pointing fingers elsewhere and a counterwagon is in the process of forming. The scum actually care about this push, this is not the time to stop it. You don't see hard defenses like the type Krazy is giving to FA coming from townies who don't know each other's allignments, this is a scum player defending their teammate.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Also, The Worst, why are you so eager to hammer? A while ago, you left the wagon on Krazy's insistence, who you now believe is scum if you don't think FA is telling the truth, and voted Garmr instead of your scumread. Now you suddenly want him lynched? I think you are doing a poor attempt at bussing.

[Completly Trustworthy]

By the way, it is obvious to everyone that FA is scum right now, so any teammate can and should be bussing right now. I can't think of a better time to distance than now, defending him would be suicide.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Hey RC, I solved the game before you by naming the correct scum team of FA/TW/Krazy. I'm getting better at scumreading people.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Also, it isn't l-1: HWS, Tex, and TW all unvoted earlier. I call on every townie to vote FA at once, its obvious he should be the lynch for today.

[Completly Trustworthy]

I don't know why you aren't voting FA Texcat, its obvious that me and RC are the real masons. Look at how good buddies we are.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Gamma Emerald or Saudade, if you are here, please just hammer and end this day already.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Why don't you think RC is scum sky? Is it because of meta or towny posts you think he made?

[Completly Trustworthy]

Something just seems off with Havo's latest posts. In 1318, they ask whether Rc is really just "bad town", implying they are suspicious of RC. Then they say that they are on board with voting someone that Radiant is pushing in 1319 and soft defend him in 1320 by asking whether he needs to be flipped. These posts seem really contradictory, I'm not sure whether Havo is just sheeping other people or not, but I'm starting to become wary of them.

[Completly Trustworthy]

The Worst is also suspicious to me. He repeatedly said Texcat was scum, but only bothered to sheep RC and Krazy. In fact, he said in 986 that he didn't understand why people wanted to lynch FA. If that was the case, then why did he just go along with voting him multiple times? In addition, the majority of his posts do not relate to solving the game and it feels like he's active lurking. Just look at his ISO and you'll realize the vast majority of his posts are worthless.

[Completly Trustworthy]

VOTE: the worst

[Completly Trustworthy]

TW, can you please explain your motivations for voting FA and Garmr over Texcat yesterday? I want to get more content from you and understand your decisions. If I get some answers, I can decide where I stand on you more firmly. Meanwhile, I'll unvote and decide whether to lynch Texcat or Garmr. At least one of them has to be scum, unless Garmr is playing a fake guilty gambit like Nero Cain in mini normal 2021. Hopefully that isn't the case.

[Completly Trustworthy]

If Garmr is faking this claim, he is probably scum. If so, why would he make a claim that would probably not be believed? Texcat was looking like a player who could easily be lynched, so I don't understand why an incriminating fake claim that essentially sacrifices a member of the mafia would be something the scumteam would go through with. Does the scumteam think that Texcat is a PR and is worth sacrificing Garmr for? If that is not the case, I can't think of a reason to bother with a fakeclaim this early. So I believe that Garmr is either telling the truth or is running some type of gambit.

[Completly Trustworthy]

The problem with assuming the choice of night kill will sort the situation out is because the scum team might not react the way you expect RC. The Mafia might leave Garmr alive to avoid confirming Texcat as scum if Garmr is telling the truth in order to add WIFOM into the game. All they would have to do is pick someone who they think Garmr is unlikely to watch and he would be unable to do any further harm.

[Completly Trustworthy]

This lynch is coming together too fast, we're already at l-2 and there's been no resistance at all. If Wh4t is scum, then the scumteam could defend him by implying Radiant can't be trusted, which would be pretty easy to do after he helped lynch the masons. The fact that so many people are quickly agreeing to lynch Wh4t is offputting to me. We should at the very last talk for a few days and wait for Ruby Red to make some comments.

[Completly Trustworthy]

I believe he claimed he had x-shots so it would make the hypothetical setup more balanced and increase the likelihood people would believe him. So there is an easy explanation for why he did that. Overall, your comment feels like weak shade Gamma Emerald. Nobody was talking about Garmr anyway, why did you have to question him in a manner which indicated you didn't believe he was actually trying to fakeclaim?

[Completly Trustworthy]

Gamma Emerald, I made that post because I wanted to see how you reacted to an accusation. I'd say your stated motive for asking Garmr why he said he had x-shots was pretty good, so I can get behind that line of thinking. Now, you're one of the players alongside Ruby Red I'd like to hear more from. So far you've commented on many posts from the game, but I would like to know what your current position on all the players is. Can you post a reads list for everyone still alive?

[Completly Trustworthy]

I didn't defend Wh4t RC, I merely said I don't like the pace at which this wagon is forming and we need to get more info out of players like GE and Ruby Red. There is over a week to decide on a lynch, so just pushing one wagon and not expressing suspicion of anyone else is bad for the town because it limits discussion.
I will probably vote for Wh4t in the end because his last few posts seem weird compared with the rest of his ISO and he has not been posting much, but I won't just sheep your opinion again when you might be evil and were wrong once before. I want more evidence before I commit.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Ruby Red, why are GE and Havo off your list of suspects? They were on the FA wagon, which I support lynching on.
As for the list of reads Gamma, you giving a good one would make me feel better about you since I would have an idea of where you stand and what you are doing to solve the game, so please do so.

[Completly Trustworthy]

It is very dangerous to assume that anyone is confirmed town, so expecting everyone to townread you is silly RC. I might think better of you if you made a comprehensive case on why Wh4t is scum and tried to get everyone on the same page through evidence rather than just demanding a vote. Right now, I think your process for finding scum is a little suspect, someone making one post implying that they are hesitant to vote a person you think is suspicious does not mean they are scum. Townies vary in opinion and will not always be on the same page with you.So I'm not going to follow you off a cliff RC, especially since it seems likely you are scum or are voting a townie. After all, if you are normally a mislynch, why are several people just going along with what you say mindlessly? I think the reason is because you are casting suspicion on a townie. I'd prefer to lynch on the FA wagon, which almost certainly contains scum. That is why I am currently questioning you and GE, both of you are players that I need to understand better.

[Completly Trustworthy]

I've been suspicious of Wh4t for a while as 690 shows. It's not that I don't think he could be scum, its just that I'm nervous about voting with you now RC. That's why I'm asking you to case Wh4t and talk about the other players. If I understood your logic and knew what you were doing to solve the game beyond trying to lynch Wh4t, I would probably be voting for him right now. Also, its standard practice to analyze who might be scum on a mislynch wagon, that's why I'm asking you and other people questions right now. As long as I get more content from suspicious slots like yours, I'm happy with Wh4t as the lynch for today. At this moment though, I'm frustrated due to GE not giving the list of reads like I asked, you accusing me instead of answering questions, and there still being little content to judge Ruby Red from.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Basically, I'd would normally be voting for Wh4t right now, but I'm currently hesitating to do so because plenty of people from the FA wagon(you, Sky, Havo, TW) are on it. RC, I followed your lead once and it didn't pay off, now I want to be more careful before doing what you say. If you and others engaged with me further, this problem might be fixed.

[Completly Trustworthy]

TW, you don't get to vote twice lol. Also, has anyone here played with Havo before? Does he typically try to solve the game on day three as he is here?

[Completly Trustworthy]

Garmr, why do you dislike the Wh4t wagon and want to vote somewhere else? Can you say why you think GE is more suspicious or make a case for Wh4t being towny?

[Completly Trustworthy]

Also, The Worst, why do you think Texcat is town now?

[Completly Trustworthy]

If you would have shot RC n1, doesn't that mean you are suspicious of him? If so, then why are voting for someone RC is pushing right now?

[Completly Trustworthy]

Well then why did your read change? It had to have been because of something that happened on d2 since you would have shot him n1.

[Completly Trustworthy]

We need to start talking again, if we keep posting at the same rate, we're handing the game to the scumteam.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Gamma, the reason why I preempt Garmr's response despite agreeing with your logic was because I didn't know why you were asking Garmr that until you responded. That was when I realized we were thinking along the same lines. Now can you please give the reads list I asked you to make?

[Completly Trustworthy]

I'm glad there was at least some discussion about the people on the FA wagon. Now, I think I'll give intent to hammer. Wh4t is too suspicious for me to not lynch. However, if he turns out to be town, I would like RC lynched due to BOP. He would have lead two mislynch wagons.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Why the unvote? I said I was going to hammer him. If he flips scum, I won't doubt you.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Since Wh4t hasn't claimed, there's no reason to wait for a hammer. Hopefully RC or someone else gives the final vote and we can get an informative flip.
VOTE: Wh4t

[Completly Trustworthy]

Sorry guys, I've been distracted by my other game recently. I'll try to put more effort in this one from now on.

[Completly Trustworthy]

I hope the mod replaces Wh4t soon, we need him and Ge back to really make progress.

[Completly Trustworthy]

At least the flip will say a lot, the people who voted Gamma will become more suspicious if Wh4t is scum and him being town will essentially ensure there are multiple scum in the voting bloc that got Wh4t and FA lynched.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Havo, why did you vote for Texcat after saying Skygazer was scum?

Also, I don't like Sky's insistence that the scumteam must have been bussing. Two people voted GE, so that would have been an attempt at a counterwagon. I don't understand why she is certain the scum were bussing.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Also, have you solved game as you said you would in 1445 Havo?

[Completly Trustworthy]

Actually, I kind of did give a l-1 warning since I said I said I wanted someone to make the final vote. Also, Sky said that "this is fine"in 1602, I think they knew full well they were hammering.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Looking at Texcat's ISO, the only comment about GE before the vote was in 859, so I would like an explanation as to why they did it.

Also, Garmr, the reasons why I didn't vote Wh4t immediately are these:
1. I didn't like the fact that the same people who mislynched FA were all agreeing to get Wh4t as well. I thought that since there was probably at least one scum in there, it might be a bad idea to follow their lead.
2. I figured that if only Wh4t was pushed or questioned, there would few AI interactions regardless of Wh4t's alignment. If he was scum, then all teammates would surely bus for example. However, I believed that if I presented other potential lynch targets, then the reactions from others would be telling.
3. I also thought that some people(like TW) were not answering questions and needed to be pressured.

The reasons why I changed my mind were these:
1. I didn't feel that great about Wh4t, as posts like 690 and 1425 demonstrate.
2. I liked RC's unvote and revote after I suggested he be lynched if Wh4t flipped town, the fear and uncertainty he showed seemed more likely to come from a town perspective than a scum perspective. Since he was one of the main people pushing the wagon, that made me feel better about it.
3. Once two quick votes were cast against GE, I started to suspect that the scumteam was trying to start a counterwagon.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Here's my opinion of the non-voters Garmr:
I think Ruby Red is town due to most of their posts being on point and their predecessor Saudade seeming town, especially when they replaced out. Most scum don't replace out due to lack of interest.
I honestly forgot HWS was in the game because he didn't post very often. Some of his posts are very suspicious in retrospect. In 445, he contradicts 345 by saying that he doesn't have a scumlean on Wh4t and asks for RC not to lynch him. He also criticizes Wh4t in 477, but doesn't follow up with a vote or noticeable pressure. In 1343, HWS casted suspicion on three people who were not Wh4t. Because he has negative associations with Wh4t and has not been posting for a long time, I think i'll leave my vote on him for now.
VOTE: HeWhoSwims

[Completly Trustworthy]

I think that HWS came off VLA about five days ago and is still nowhere to be seen, so he has been absent for at least a few days.

[Completly Trustworthy]

What did you mean by that latest post Ruby Red? It seemed like you were criticizing my tone and posting style rather than my posts. That seems like a bad reason to have a scumread on someone.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Also, the town needs to post more, seven posts in a day is wonderful for the scumteam.

[Completly Trustworthy]

In my game with scum HWS, he lurked out for long periods and got prodded multiple times. So this inactivity seems scummy to me. Also, I think its odd that right after I voted HWS, several people immediately started saying I looked scummy after they had not really cared about me before. For instance, if Ruby thought I was scummy and didn't care to vote for Wh4t on day 2, why didn't he push me then? Also, how does he know I played a game with scum HWS? I don't think I've said I was in newbie 1882 once in this thread. He either bothered to look through a completed newbie game for no reason(unlikely), looked at all posts I had ever made, even ones not in this game which they were not aware would be important(somewhat unlikely), or were told in a private thread(possible.) I think I should rethink my townread on him. It's looking more and more like both him and HWS are both scum.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Can people put up cases instead of just giving naked reads like I am scum and TW is town, please show examples of scummy or towny things we've done this game?
Also, Skygazer, what changed between 1534 and 1611. How did you sort The Worst?

[Completly Trustworthy]

I've lost interest in this game and don't think I'm doing as best I can. Hopefully fresh blood can provide new a perspective on this game.
Mod Replace me