Open 731: Twin Trap (Game Over)

[Inferno390]

You’re all wrong, burgers are obviously the best because they can have both eggs or cheese on them!
VOTE: GameNBurger

Also, I have never played with anyone in this game before except BuJaber, so this should be interesting. (I swear my meta has improved, BuJaber.)

[Inferno390]

Why not eggs AND cheese?

Yes, have both!
Conspiracy Theory: Since cheese pair great with eggs, the scumteam is Egg+Fromage.

[Inferno390]

You being 1 head instead of 2 will probably help no matter what Inferno

But you know what they say, two heads are better than one!
Which is why there is always at least 2 scum.

[Inferno390]

You’re all wrong, burgers are obviously the best because they can have both eggs or cheese on them!
VOTE: GameNBurger

Also, I have never played with anyone in this game before except BuJaber, so this should be interesting. (I swear my meta has improved, BuJaber.)

VOTE: Inferno

LAL

*Slaps forehead*

[Inferno390]

How many people have I played with that I don't remember?!?

[Inferno390]

Haha, time for discussion generation!
BuJaber is prob a VT.
Post 25 is weird enough to garner some sus.

GameNBurgers lack of appearance is interesting, but NAI due to no daytalk.

[Inferno390]

Because I find it’s a good way to get out of RVS. Helps me judge interactions and gather info. It hasn’t failed me yet, and I doubt it will start now.
Egg is scum now btw.
VOTE: Egg

[Inferno390]

@Manatee:
So it’s like this:
BuJaber asked for setup spec for this game.
The only thing that I can think of that would prompt that sort of request is if he could not remember what the setup was.
Scum and PRs, would have no reason to not know this due to their role PMs. Well, maybe not PRs, but definitely scum.
So unless BuJaber is the type of scum who would ask for setup spec for town cred, which is extremely convulted logic that I don’t expect anyone to have, he’s most likely town.

@BuJaber: My post is not nearly bad enough to garner a scum read by itself. The fact that Egg is apparently now scumreading me for it is incredibly scummy.

A50 pushing my lynch simply because I’m the best wagon is super sus. How about some real reads rather than some postured sheeping?

[Inferno390]

In other words, Manatee, he might be a PR, but he sure as heck ain’t scum.

[Inferno390]

A50 pushing my lynch simply because I’m the best wagon is super sus.

This phrase is more sus than anything in this thread, and especially so since you're not new and know fully well that an early wagon is always

good

and rarely ever leads to a lynch.

That said, you assessment of BuJaber could've sounded Townie to me,

except

if you really are scum and are afraid to you might get lynched before you convey your thoughts to your p.

The way you initially phrased it was "he's a VT", before you backtracked to state he's unlikely scum but could indeed be a TPR. See where the contradiction is? You didn't say he's likely Town or likely not scum in your initial statement, but only after having been pressured did you revert to that.

So, rather than a pressure wagon to get us of RVS I', considering yours a serious wagon now and my vote is now for real.

Ahem.
I said he was probably a VT. And what can that mean beyond likely town and unlikely scum?
This is a bad post that I may break down further once I reach my computer.

[Inferno390]

Ah, but you see
While it is true that “BuJ is likely Town” DOES NOT mean “BuJ is likely VT”
“BuJ is likely VT” DOES mean “BuJ is likely town”
Those are not two interchangeable points.

You are taking my posts and and attacking me with the former, when it should be clear that my line of thought is firmly in the latter. The only reason for this nonexistent “backtracking” that you think you have found is because I am accounting for the fact that there is a slim possibility for BuJ!PR, though it should be clear that I find it highly unlikely from my posts.

You are crafting your words to display my posts in the worst possible light. This is highly scummy behavior.

[Inferno390]

Oh, and while I’m thinking about it

@Mod:V/LA from tomorrow until Monday

Gonna be out of town visiting family.

[Inferno390]

Ys, it is very clear that you are trying to paint me as scum for something that is not actually that scummy.
VOTE: A50

[Inferno390]

Eragon, I want to read your post so bad
But I’m on a fricking PHONE

[Inferno390]

Just got on a computer and read that. It's strong, picked out all the important points. Eragon goes on my townreads right now.

[Inferno390]

@Egg: Well, then you understood exactly what I was trying to get across. And I understand that train of thought. The point of saying that BuJaber is VT tho is that having BuJ as conftown (imo ofc, people might not agree with me on this) this early is GREAT for town.

[Inferno390]

whats IIoA?

Information Instead of Analysis. Basically technical stuff instead of reads.

[Inferno390]

Manatee understands me.

[Inferno390]

@BuJ:
I know my read on you sounds super odd.
But your point of people forget things and you need a refresher is exactly my point.
Because scum wouldn’t need those things because the setup is basically explained in their roles.
So I highly doubt that scum would notice or care if the setup spec was missing from the opening posts.
A VT, on the other hand, would have very good reason to forget or need a refresher.
And I highly doubt scum would ask for game spec to get towncred. It takes a special kind of either smart or weird to go down that line of thought. (I’m probably weird lol)

[Inferno390]

See, this is where I know A50 is doing a misrep. Because I’m not trying to convince him that VT is interchangeable with likely. What I’m trying to convince him of is that VT means, by extension, likely town. I have not at one point said that likely town means VT. In fact, I have been arguing against it. To say otherwise is twisting my words around to fit the worst possible scenario. Classic straw man.

[Inferno390]

@Fromage: No, Egg has had good posts since the initial exchange, and his posts read as natural and scumhunting. I’m leaning town for him.

GameNBurger is making me lol. Not only do I know that I am comfortably within my Town meta in terms of weird play, the fact that he’s 1) making associations this early and 2) lockscureading me for play that is not actually that bad and then using it to build a case around Manatee is terrible and not something I can see coming from town.

[Inferno390]

Oho
Burger has scumslipped in an attempt to get rid of me
He doesn’t know that the only scumgame I’ve ever played is one of the marathon games from last month. (A fact that both drives me crazy and I am very proud of because it gives me very good townmeta)
I have never been scumpartners with Manatee, not have I been partners with anyone else in the regular style of game.
VOTE: Burger

Join me, brothers. I have found the true scum!

[Inferno390]

Guys
Just realized A50 is hunting for the PRs.

@Egg: because GameNBurger is using a non-existent scumteam pairing from a previous game to try and make it look like Manatee and I have experience playing with each imo. We don’t. This is a case of Lynch All Liars.

[Inferno390]

Woah stop
How am I being flaily, exactly?

[Inferno390]

I think your reactions are entirely reactionary rather than logical jumps or any sort of serious thought

You don’t have coherent scumreads but OMGUS anyone that seems to seriously hold an accusation against you

I read this as panicky flailing rather than believe your bad enough (read: delusional) to seriously beleive all of the people you think are scum are still scum, so you read more reactionary rather than someone who has a coherent idea of what’s going on

That being said:

Your reaction to my mistake was justified, I think it’s reachy since I read the entire game as null to anything and dimssed it but I do understand your response there

So your entire read on me is an Attack on Playstyle then.
I see how it is.

I also have only seriously stated three people are scum and redacted one of those reads, so to call into question my reads like you just did is ridiculous.

[Inferno390]

Okay
And on the off chance we actually are running up the given TPR?
See, this looks like an attempt to throw WIFOM into any claim we get off the lynch. We get a PR claim and no CC, and then scum intentionally leaves the PR alive to throw confusion into town and perhaps grab a mislynch.

Also reads like an excuse to run up people to get claims.

[Inferno390]

Will everyone please stop saying I’m flailing?
It’s really starting to get on my nerves, probably more than the fact that you’re all going to let me sit at L-1.

[Inferno390]

@Inferno: Could you please link us some of your games and maybe give a short summary?

If you do this, please also explain how your meta has improved and if this holds true in our game.

I swear my meta has improved, BuJaber.

I’m actually on vacation visiting family, and won’t be able to do anything other than phone post until about Monday. Will get to this though. (Though you can see what games I’ve been in by checking the topics I’ve posted in I want to point out)

I will say that I’m actually kind of disappointed with myself that this is the direction my play has gone today. This is a lot closer to my early game meta than my more current games imho, and one of the things I’ve been trying to do is improve my play onsite so it’s got a lot more logic behind it and not nearly so lynchbaity.

[Inferno390]

@Eragon
So you think that I’m for sure scum, but you don’t want my lynch?
And why would you suggest that I would get quick hammered by my partner, should I be scum?

[Inferno390]

Just read up, and I am refusing to claim this early in the day, mostly because I think I was run up as a cover for PR hunting. So I will leave scum in WIFOM on whether I am a PR or not with this post.

#154 is weak. If so was going to self hammer, I would have done it already, and no way my partner comes in to hammer and reveal himself.
Also don’t like 158, this again reads like PR hunting. There is this thing called pressuring to determine alignment, A50.
GameNBurger is still just throwing AoP my way, so I’m officially ignoring anything he says about me for now. He can come back with a real read. Also way too concerned with how his vote looks imo.
Scum is somewhere in {A50, Eragon, GameNBurger}. This is where my lynchpool is until further notice (I.e.: scum reveals itself somewhere else)

[Inferno390]

These last few GameNBurger posts have me even more sus of him (if that’s even possible). The fact that his entire pairing list is pairing me with other players is bad for a few reasons: 1) By looking at everything as “Inferno’s scum, who’s his partner,” it allows him to look like he’s hunting for scum when in reality he’s just calling me scum and seeing who else he can pin me with. 2) By trying to pair me with every other player in the game, it’s obvious that he’s keeping his options open. 3) Lockscumming me means that he's just calling anything that anyone else is doing in interaction with me scummy to see what sticks. He’s not actually analyzing anyone on their own merit to see if they are scum or not. Also, where did that soft scumread on BuJ come from? It feels less me it was pulled out of a hat.

@Eragon: First off, the fact that you would even suggest that I would self hammer D1 not even a week into the game as Town is disgusting. I would NEVER self hammer as town, it’s super anti-wincon.
The fact that I’m not already dead should be hugely Town indicative by your logic, because you left me at L-1 for way too long, and I had plenty of opportunity to self hammer.
Second, au contraire, my friend, the people who are pressuring me are the ones who happen to be my lynchpool. That was a pretty blatant straw man if I do say so myself.

[Inferno390]

If Eragon+A50 is the scumteam, I’m gonna laugh my head off.
Also going to try and take a step back from the game for a day or two. I feel like my reads have gotten fricked over the last 24 hours and I need to do a major step back and reset, but my head is pounding tonight and I don’t have the energy. Will be reading and watching, but don’t expect anything major from me for the next 24-36 hours.

[Inferno390]

Idk...


Honestly I'm good with ending here

A flip will do us good

This is scummy. We have over a week left. There is no reason to be lynching this early.

INFERNO WHEN YOU SEE THIS... CLAIM YOUR FULL ROLE, OR WE WILL LYNCH YOU BLIND

This is not your decision. This is the decision of the town as a whole.
So no.
I will not be bullied into claiming by someone who I am already starting to question alignment on.

[Inferno390]

Going to go read ISOs. Now. If everyone would like to back off for a hot minute, that would be great.

[Inferno390]

Okay. Fine. Lynch me.
Then, when you go into the night with next to nothing, your fault, not mine.
Going back to my ISOs.
@A50: You KNOW that my playstyle is to gather as much info as I can D1 and I HATE cutting days short. The fact that you are now willing to paint this as a scum tactic is ridiculous.

[Inferno390]

I honestly don’t understand why everyone’s so worked up over the fact that I’m refusing to claim because my three strongest scumread are literally trying to force it out of me.
Maybe if you’d all back off a fricking second, some reason would come to light.

[Inferno390]

The push to claim came long before there was any actual intent to get hammered. BS.
If I have to bite the D1 lynch because of this crap, fine. But I am not going to have a claim forced out of me. It’s quite honestly stupid.
And the fact that I’m getting lynched while a myriad of people are either on V/LA or just now replacing is setting off major alarm bells in my head. The reason the game is quiet is because no one’s been talking, not because there is nothing to talk about or the game is dead. The game is basically being lurked out, partly because of this crap. And my death is not going to solve that because with me dead, there will be less to go on than when you started.
So if I have to literally die to get the game moving like you claim (which is a ridiculous idea anyways), fine. Lynch me. But let me finish my ISO list first, so that when I flip and you all look like stupid idiots, they can be read and some real shit can get done around here.
Because perhaps town will listen to me when I’m dead rather than alive.

[Inferno390]

Okay, here’s what I have so far. I’m doing this alphabetically, so I’m hardly done, but I’m starting to get the feeling I need to get stuff out quick, som

Spoiler: A50 to Eragon

A50: Post 45 is wushu washy and fake. Even even admits I sound town and then comes back and says that it’s scum in the same breath. Also gets way hung up on technicalities early where he is most definitely wrong. Looks like a straw man from this angle, though if anyone else has an opinion on this...? 107 also pings me: Anyone who is going to ignore people over a technicality and is going to scumread them anyways definitely deserves a hard look. 122 for some reason makes me think that A50 is getting a partner’s attention. Probably the bolding. Also, why was I scumread early on by A50, but don’t appear anywhere on his scum reads in 159? The same sort of question for 181; early on, he says that Burger and I are the most likely scum team; in 181, he comes back and says that it has been completely ruled out. Where is the progression for this? I honestly cannot find any.

BuJ: I like his posting. 77 especially is strong and reads like a genuine thought process as an early example, but this trend continues throughout the day. Is obviously analyzing the game from a town stand point. Would locktown this for the day.

Egg: there is not much from Egg actually. He doesn’t actually take a hard stance on anything, which does feel like scum trying to avoid attention. Want to see more from that slot.

Eragon:
Okay
So most of his posts are posturing.
There’s a lot of pointing out what’s scummy and not any looking at what isn’t. It reads a lot like throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. Also not actually giving reads. And this push on me is weaksauce as frick. It’s a lot of posturing followed by a “oh, he’s not claiming like ‘everyone else’ thinks he should! Let’s lynch him!” Also don’t like the fact that it’s not okay to have a lynch at 12 days, but it’s perfectly fine at 8 days. A lot of his logic is convulted or contradictory too, but I’m gonna need a computer to parse that fully, and it looks like that’s not gonna happen, so...

I’ll get to a few more in a min, but I need a break. It’s exhausting writing all of that from a phone.

[Inferno390]

I don’t think everyone else is wrong. Have you seen me say as such or act as such to any other person in the game?
I do think that you’re going to look pretty dumb when I flip town and the only reason you lynched me is I refused to do whatever you told me to.

Honestly, I am very frustrated with the fact that I have been run up to a hammer point twice now this phase despite the fact that I have not actually done anything that I feel is worthy of it. And I’m sorry, refusing to give into my some of my top scumreads over a claim is not a reason to lynch me, despite whatever else you may think.

And the there is plenty to discuss in this game so far. You jus have to dig a little bit and work a little harder. For example, you really think that absolutely no one will have a thing to say about my ISO reads above?
But instead of just acting like no one’s talking, you could actually, you know, do something about it. Look back at the thread so far. Ask questions. Read ISOs. Be the person who generates discussion instead of just waiting on everyone else to do it for you. No one’s stopping you. And the fact that you’re going to just lynch me on a bunch of weaksauce rather than do that is both super lazy and super scummy imo.

[Inferno390]

Even even admits I sound town and then comes back and says that it’s scum in the same breath.

That's a misrep at best. I clearly said "

could've

sounded Townie to me, except.. " which is NOT the same as "sounds townie". "Could have" means it's NOT the case.

So , in other words, “This would be Town except for this other reason that makes it scum.”
Not a misrep. It’s called digging out the meaning of the words.

Also gets way hung up on technicalities early where he is most definitely wrong.

2 things:

1- If I/we drop the technicalities, what's left there for us to play by on D1?
2- Who says I'm "most definitely wrong"? I hope you're not -again- referring to yourself as the ultimate judge on the matter. My previous post shows clearly that you don't even speak English well enough, my friend. (I take it that English is not your primary language?)

English is my primary language, and I probably know more words in it than you do. The fact that you’re going to just straight up assume this when you literally were JUST is a game with me is incredibly insulting. I might replace out for this.
And if ISOs are any indication, most of the thread agrees with your parsing on this is wrong. So back off.

107 also pings me: Anyone who is going to ignore people over a technicality and is going to scumread them anyways definitely deserves a hard look.

So, I'm sus bc I SR you, and sus bc I tried to overlook the issue and tried to pressure someone else??

No, because you outright said you were ignoring me. Obviously you thought I had nothing good left to say. That is incredibly anti-Town imo.

122 for some reason makes me think that A50 is getting a partner’s attention.

You probably mean 112, don't you? 122 was a response to Fromage exclaiming about 112.

I'll try to simplify the logic for you: If you're scum and you claim the PR you're NOT immune to you might get a CC and get lynched. But then your p will only know the PR who he is immune to anyway, so he doesn't gain much from it.

So, you claim the PR that you are immune to and hope they CC so that your sacrifice turns the game into am all VT one.

How's THAT getting my partner's attention? Unless you're implying I'm either scum with YOU or Manatee (whom you refuse to bloody vote still).

This is a really awful misrep of my point and anyone who actually cares about my posting will understand that.

[Inferno390]

I don’t think everyone else is wrong. Have you seen me say as such or act as such to any other person in the game?

I did and I quoted it. You specifically said "you

all

look like stupid idiots"

And considering ot takes 5 of the other 8 to lynch you, that's you calling 5 different slots idiots upon your flip.

FUCK
YOU KNOW WHAT I GODDAMN MEANT A50
DO NOT PLAY GAMES WITH MY PHRASING

[Inferno390]

Well
The moral of this story is that Inferno390 is a terrible Mafia player

[Inferno390]

Thx guys