Open 734: Paris Mafia (13-player variation) - Game Over

[DoubtingThomas]

Cause baby you look happier, you do

My friends told me one day I'll feel it too

And until then I'll smile to hide the truth

But I know I was happier with you

[DoubtingThomas]

But I guess you look happier, you do

My friends told me one day I'd feel it too

I could try to smile to hide the truth

I know I was happier with you

[DoubtingThomas]

Baby, you look happier, you do

I knew one day you'd fall for someone new

But if breaks your heart like lovers do

Just know that I'll be waiting here for you

[DoubtingThomas]

you don't like good music??

[DoubtingThomas]

um yeah let's not try to hero vote over three posts i made when i was drunk and being really emotional haha ecksdee

[DoubtingThomas]

And what’s with the “I would also vote [4 people]”

Are those actual thoughts or RvS

Those are actual thoughts if you note that I express lack of joy in seeing people not start creating wagons and that I specifically cited all the posters who had come in at a certain point and continued empty RVS instead of trying to get something going - and also the empty poster who is, functionally, part and parcel of the same issue.

Why did it not come across clearly to you?

Would you like to move your vote to sesq?
If no - why not?
If yes - please do so.

i like this and last post by thor.

scums tend to try to savor the RVS stage and try to continue the rvs stage, but he jumped straight into trying to question and attempt to solve the game.

i think it is a very townie approach

[DoubtingThomas]

And what’s with the “I would also vote [4 people]”

Are those actual thoughts or RvS

Those are actual thoughts if you note that I express lack of joy in seeing people not start creating wagons and that I specifically cited all the posters who had come in at a certain point and continued empty RVS instead of trying to get something going - and also the empty poster who is, functionally, part and parcel of the same issue.

Why did it not come across clearly to you?

Would you like to move your vote to sesq?
If no - why not?
If yes - please do so.

Becuase it’s RvS and the votes mean nothing?

The so-called “continuing RvS” is pretty much through post 15-16(not sure exact), and it’s just the way to start the game.

And why did you not call me out for RvS’in or the other person you didn’t mention?(I forget)

I’m not moving my vote to Sesq Becuase I see no reason to see them as scum,

i think eragon's responses all have been smooth and it makes sense for me.

i'd like to give eragon some town points for this post too.

[DoubtingThomas]

OK, so Mime are probably Eragon & Thomas (early reads). Lady Angel has the towniest vibes of all RVS votes, and I also feel goos about Thor (one of the most dangerous scum players in multi-ball) so that's a relief. All I want is for him and GL to be Town and the Town is probably gonna win this.

Sesq is good scumm but she hasn't yet done anything scummy (well, a far fetched idea is that she is scum with lane and they're distancing already).

I;m waiting for Lalendra to come in and spew me as scum out of the blue. If he doesn't then she definitely has something to hide.

Mmm okay so i feel like his reads for me being scummy is good here. but i really dont see eragon being a mime?

[DoubtingThomas]

I also feel goos about Thor (one of the most dangerous scum players in multi-ball)

If you think I have a rep as dangerous scum, why in the world are you town sorting me and buddying this early?

this is a good post

[DoubtingThomas]

I also feel goos about Thor (one of the most dangerous scum players in multi-ball)

If you think I have a rep as dangerous scum, why in the world are you town sorting me and buddying this early?

Because you are being aggressive and moving the game forward fast enough which isn't like scum!you.

As Mafia you would want to stay in the shadows a bit longer and as Mime you would not want to look like you're game solving this early (you want to be lynched AND want to avoid being NK'd by the Mafia).

The way you've been posting makes you a prime NK target for the Mafia, and a much less likely lynch for the next couple of days, so you're not a Mime (and I'm openly Mime hunting as a priority because I don't want to lose having lynched non-town aligned players. That would suck).

Tldr, your play doesn't make sense as Mime and is unlikely to come from Mafia you, so you're Town. Any objections?

this is a great post, however i still don't see what's wrong with eragon? how you can see her as mime, let alone scummy for her posts? could you explain?

[DoubtingThomas]

OK, so Mime are probably Eragon & Thomas (early reads). Lady Angel has the towniest vibes of all RVS votes, and I also feel goos about Thor (one of the most dangerous scum players in multi-ball) so that's a relief. All I want is for him and GL to be Town and the Town is probably gonna win this.

Sesq is good scumm but she hasn't yet done anything scummy (well, a far fetched idea is that she is scum with lane and they're distancing already).

I;m waiting for Lalendra to come in and spew me as scum out of the blue. If he doesn't then she definitely has something to hide.

Why DT?

This is quite odd.

I surely think my three posts of lyrics don't make me townie at all, and i can see why i would be a mime. because it looks like a wolf lolcatting.

but i dont see eragon and i think it's even more odd that you question the read on eragon more than the read on me?

[DoubtingThomas]

Why DT?

SPAM. Not a single game-related word. That's someone who wants to look scummy in order to be lynched.

Hmmmm. At first I thought it was just a triple post. If you are confident that he is a mime, and I like your reasoning, wouldn't lynching him be a bad idea? If you are incorrect about his partner then all it takes is one misslynch to give them the victory.

I don't really follow the reasoning here for pushing a wagon on your mime read...

this is a bad post.

he pinpoints me (instead of eragon)

then backs down immediately, saying he didnt read my posts correctly. then why did you make posts that implied i was rather townier than eragon, or at least made you ask that question while omitting eragon?

[DoubtingThomas]

Why DT?

SPAM. Not a single game-related word. That's someone who wants to look scummy in order to be lynched.

Hmmmm. At first I thought it was just a triple post. If you are confident that he is a mime, and I like your reasoning, wouldn't lynching him be a bad idea? If you are incorrect about his partner then all it takes is one misslynch to give them the victory.

I don't really follow the reasoning here for pushing a wagon on your mime read...

I didn't push a wagon on him and I'm not voting him still. I said to lynch him and Vig Fink/Eragon when Fink voted him.

wati what? you were saying multiple times that i am probably a mime and i should be lynched and once i am lynched the vig should shoot eragon and/or fink?

you are telling me that's not pushing a wagon? is pushing a wagon mean something different over here?

[DoubtingThomas]

Did you actually think that I was truly claiming vigi?
My claim is obviously fake becuase it is fake

Yes, but

why

claim an existing role is the question here. What

if

someone took you seriously and decided to CC?

I mean, I can obviously give you he benefit of doubt here having just seen your play recently, but -if you're town- you need to learn from your mistakes and stop making scummy moves for no apparent reason. You know what I'm saying?

if someone takes eragon's claims from the very first post of the game, a post that he made as part of an rvs vote seriously and cc,

then i am sorry we were prob gonna lose anyways.

[DoubtingThomas]

Basically the same Q goes to thor though - why vote there when there is a decent case (at least for this early) that he is the mime? It feels like you just want to jump on any wagon at all....

Presuming it's a decent case (to which I actually reply 'meh') why do you oppose the Mime wincon exactly?
I do want to jump on any wagon I support right now, and this is the largest one in current existence and I don't town read him, so why shouldn't I be voting him?

Random votes hold the same power as regular votes, but not the same meaning
A vote in post 14 /=/ a vote in post 73, one random and he other with reasoning

And yet they are more alike than different. ::shrug::

I don’t think it’s scum indicative or pro-town. RvS is purely NAI, and I can’t see why RvS would be AI ever.

If RVS is never alignment indicative how do we ever get out of RVS to where votes have more meaning?

Early enough is just based on timing getting to the thread.
I don’t think anyone voting in RvS is trying to avoid creating a wagon, it’s jsut voting someone randomly, hence Random. Voting. stage.

I agree it is timing - that is immaterial to my tell. The people whose timing gave them greater info should have reacted to that info if they are playing pro-town. Failure to do so makes them a valid lynch option at this point. Hope this is making sense to you.
I agree that is one way to consider RVS - I think it is a pro-scum/poor town play mindset however and do not support town players playing that way.

Becuase why would I put a third vote on someone that’s had 1 RvS vote, that is NAI, and no reasoning?

Because you have an equal scum read to them as someone you are voting - so what's the difference? Is your goal *not* to apply pressure with your vote? What are you doing voting if you need a case?

And the first RvS vote is always meaningless, becuase its random.

There are varying levels of random.

I think by page 3, however,

the debate over RVS stage is getting old.

This happens in a lot of the games I have experienced.

Some people RVS

Player A complains about people RVS'ing

Player B says I am only RVS'ing

Player A says I don't understand why RVS happens bla bla we need to get the game going bla bla you are scummy for promoting RVS

like.

we get it the first one or two times this debate happens.

just... rvs happens all the time why always drag this debate on?

i've seen a lot of times scum used this topic to distract the thread from game solving, so we should drop it and actually just start to solve the game.

[DoubtingThomas]

We can -of course- lynch DT, and if he flips Mime we shoot both Fink and Eragon (Mafia will agree to shoot there as they also don't want the Mimes winning).

So,

if DR flips Mime, Town Vig shoots Fink and Mafia shoot Eragon.

Lynching mime helps mime's wincon. so do you really want to lynch a supposed mime first?

i am not sure if i agree with your plan.

[DoubtingThomas]

you are telling me that's not pushing a wagon? is pushing a wagon mean something different over here?

Yes. It means starting one and/or motivating players to vote there. I did say you're Mime but I didn't promote your lynch (why lynch a Mime??). However, Fink voted you AFTER that (FA was RVS voting you already), so I reacted by "or we can lynch ST and when he does flip Mime shoot Fink/Eragon.

Then Thor joined the wagon after I said that, and I thought he was alright testing if you were Mime, which implicitly meant he agrees to shoot Fink/Eragon if you do flip Mime.

I am no longer sure what Thor's vote on you was for though, because he seemed confused and probably thought Town could still win with the Mimes (or after them to be accurate). I mean, Town!Thor could still want to lynch the Mime under that assumption, but also Scum!Thor would be happy to lynch/shoot someone not on his team, so the vote is NAI.

uh ok i think you are just playing with words when you are saying you haven't actively pushed for my lynch when you suggested should i be lynched and flip mime, vig should the other two.

i am still not fond of the idea of lynching a mime and somehow being so sure about a certain player being mime and a partner being one of the two you mentioned.

not only do i not see why eragon can even potentially be mime, but i just think we are assuming a hella here with just 3 posts to read.

and to try to lynch a mime is a risky strategy for both town and scum in general.

btw, scums dont know who the mimes are, right?

[DoubtingThomas]

We can -of course- lynch DT, and if he flips Mime we shoot both Fink and Eragon (Mafia will agree to shoot there as they also don't want the Mimes winning).

So,

if DR flips Mime, Town Vig shoots Fink and Mafia shoot Eragon.

Lynching mime helps mime's wincon. so do you really want to lynch a supposed mime first?

i am not sure if i agree with your plan.

My plan is a reaction to someone else's vote on you. Personally I do

not

want to lynch you, and I'm not voting you. However, other people are, and if the lynch goes through I would rather be ready with the night plans in order.

i am going to reevaluate everyone who tried to lynch me while proposing that i am mime. that's pretty weird.

altho this would mean that those proponents are less likely to be mime

[DoubtingThomas]

It feels like doubting Thomas is actively not trying to understand what happened with a50 and why he was talking about a DTmime flip... Which in itself is annoying at least.

What I don't like is DT essentially saying it's shady? For a50 to push a mime read (which isn't exactly true) but didn't feel as though there's a scum read...

DT, were you leaning scum on a50? ARE you leaning scum on a50? Tell me how you really feel.

VOTE: Thor

You don't have to respond with "I got us out of RVs didn't I?" But I think your questions on the way there were just.... I need to find the words.

No. No.

I think my highest scum read right now is FA. Mostly for picking out just me out (who, arguably, posted more scummy stuff before) and question a50 for mime reading me and eragon, where as I actually liked Eragon's posts.

Questions to both FA and a50: What was mime-indicative of Eragon?

[DoubtingThomas]

@DT: Read my posts PLEASE. Eragon and I had a debate about what made me think he might be Mime. He explained his PoV and I explained mine and we came to a semi-agreement that I might be wrong and he might have picked the wrong role to claim as a joke.

I concede -now- that I could see Town!Eragon making that post (his first), so my "Mime read" on him has dropped significantly, but you not reading the thread is alarming to me. It feels as it you're looking for legit stuff to poke to appear townie more than you actually questioning anything genuinely.

so you think scum!DoubtingThomas is not really reading the thread but at the same time trying to poke around to appear townie, despite the fact that me poking at stuff that is apparently easily understandable by just reading your thread would probably make me look worse?

i think you are trying to accusing me 'poking at the stuff to look townie' doesn't really add up if i dont even pay attention to the post like you are saying. lol

[DoubtingThomas]

Why DT?

SPAM. Not a single game-related word. That's someone who wants to look scummy in order to be lynched.

Hmmmm. At first I thought it was just a triple post. If you are confident that he is a mime, and I like your reasoning, wouldn't lynching him be a bad idea? If you are incorrect about his partner then all it takes is one misslynch to give them the victory.

I don't really follow the reasoning here for pushing a wagon on your mime read...

this is a bad post.

he pinpoints me (instead of eragon)

then backs down immediately, saying he didnt read my posts correctly. then why did you make posts that implied i was rather townier than eragon, or at least made you ask that question while omitting eragon?

I never stated you were townier. What I wanted to know was his reasoning on YOU because I did not see anything to base it on. You did not have the content.

Your case on me requires that you know the reasoning behind a post that I did not give the reasoning for.

I wasn't exactly trying to make a case out of that.

I was, rather, confused and wondering why none of MY posts pinged you so you wanted to ask him about his reads on me, while ERAGON's posts did ping you (implied) and you didn't have to clarify that one?

Because, I persoanlly think writing 4 line song lyric on the front page 3 different times is... like a wtf moment. so really no reason to question why someone would scum read someone else for that? (imo, even if i am in the receiving end) like yeah, i can also see it could be NAI, and perhaps you think so, so you are asking a50 for clarification.

but once a50 explains the obvious, you immediately back down.

I got the vibe that you just asked the question mindlessly for no reason (perhaps, to look like you are trying to ask questions ==townie) and just accepted his answer because that's what you planned to do. Because Idk what else you expected him to say, i think that kinda read was pretty much a given.

What's weirder is that you didn't inquire the same thing about eragon, even tho, personally, i think her posts were much better than mine.

why did eragon's posts ping you for you to agree with a50's scummish read on him, while my absolutely pointless chain of 3 posts on Ed Sheeran's Happier did not?

[DoubtingThomas]

I wasn't exactly trying to make a case out of that.

I was, rather, confused and wondering why none of MY posts pinged you so you wanted to ask him about his reads on me, while ERAGON's posts did ping you (implied) and you didn't have to clarify that one?

Because, I persoanlly think writing 4 line song lyric on the front page 3 different times is... like a wtf moment. so really no reason to question why someone would scum read someone else for that? (imo, even if i am in the receiving end) like yeah, i can also see it could be NAI, and perhaps you think so, so you are asking a50 for clarification.

but once a50 explains the obvious, you immediately back down.

It was not that obvious what he was seeing in your posts that led him to think you were a mime.

I got the vibe that you just asked the question mindlessly for no reason (perhaps, to look like you are trying to ask questions ==townie) and just accepted his answer because that's what you planned to do. Because Idk what else you expected him to say, i think that kinda read was pretty much a given.

Or, you know, I cant read his mind and did not see what he was talking about.

What's weirder is that you didn't inquire the same thing about eragon, even tho, personally, i think her posts were much better than mine.

why did eragon's posts ping you for you to agree with a50's scummish read on him, while my absolutely pointless chain of 3 posts on Ed Sheeran's Happier did not?

God man, can you misrepresent more shit in one post?

I was not asking about scum - I was asking about MIME - a fairly rare role and why he thought song lyrics played into that. As far as backing down, what was I backing down from? What claim did I make? Where did I indicate that I had any read on you or eragon at all? I wanted to know what he thought because I had no idea what he was getting at.

I don't see you as town at all - mime is actually a good pin with all your mind reading and misrepresenting what I actually said.

The question I am asking here is simple

why did you omit Eragon and not me in your question?

[DoubtingThomas]

wrt doubting thomas: just because someone makes a joke post does not mean they want to be lynched. maybe they just want to post music lyrics. nobody is that stupidly obvious with their moves... right? i dont know.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, my Bets are on Thaey are just shit Posting

in general there's a problem where people assume people are so much more stupider than they are. nobody is that stupid .... except for me ;P

idk maybe its just me.... i dont think people are inherently logical! maybe im projecting too much again...(×_×)

dt isnt scum. hes just not thinking very hard

not changing my vote because its real this time

Thanks for being the first person to acknowledge that I am not as dumb as a monkey

That being said, why are you sure that I am not scum? Especially if you think my posts are product from someone who is 'not thinking very hard'?

[DoubtingThomas]

Don't see any questions/comment people have on my new sets of posts that I made after the first 3 meaningless song lyrics

[DoubtingThomas]

FA just missed my post or ignoring my question?

[DoubtingThomas]

okay so I think A50, Thor, DT, probably Eragon, maybe lane all town

Lane?

you have your vote on me. you dont want to ask him why he town reads me?

[DoubtingThomas]

Guys, I will have wisdom teeth surgery tomorrow and, consequently, will have to relax and play less mafia.

Be prepared to see me less for a couple days, especially with classes starting next week :/. I will try to keep track of the thread tho.