Open 734: Paris Mafia (13-player variation) - Game Over

[Eragon]

VOTE: A50

Still slightly annoyed

On another note

i claim bodyguard

Oh wait, that’s not a role, shoot.

I claim vigilante.

Perfect

[Eragon]

I remember your avi lane. Been awhile.

VOTE: eragon

Cats - cats are terrible. Dogs are WAY better. Everyone knows cat people are always scum.

I do believe this person just claimed scum.

This game EZ

[Eragon]

I don’t truly believe they claimed scum. And it’s worth posting becuase cats are the only true gods, and dogs are evil

[Eragon]

And what’s with the “I would also vote [4 people]”

Are those actual thoughts or RvS

[Eragon]

And what’s with the “I would also vote [4 people]”

Are those actual thoughts or RvS

Those are actual thoughts if you note that I express lack of joy in seeing people not start creating wagons and that I specifically cited all the posters who had come in at a certain point and continued empty RVS instead of trying to get something going - and also the empty poster who is, functionally, part and parcel of the same issue.

Why did it not come across clearly to you?

Would you like to move your vote to sesq?
If no - why not?
If yes - please do so.

Becuase it’s RvS and the votes mean nothing?

The so-called “continuing RvS” is pretty much through post 15-16(not sure exact), and it’s just the way to start the game.

And why did you not call me out for RvS’in or the other person you didn’t mention?(I forget)

I’m not moving my vote to Sesq Becuase I see no reason to see them as scum,

[Eragon]

VOTE: A50

Still slightly annoyed

On another note

i claim bodyguard

Oh wait, that’s not a role, shoot.

I claim vigilante.

Perfect

MIME detected!

First

Spoiler:

We did agree your lynch was perfectly justified in the last game, because your play resulted in swaying the lynch off a Mafioso, directly resulted in outing a PR, and it worked well bc you also TR'd the other Mafioso.

Second: No Town Vig wants to out themselves at the start of D1. Your claim is this obviously fake. Bit to what purpose? Is it an attempt to bait the NK?? That'd be bad bc that's protecting the Mimes (assuming you're not).
Is it to draw a CC? Well, Mafia do need the Vig alive for a couple of nights to help them clip down the numbers.

So, the logical conclusion is you want to appear scummy so we would lynch you, and WHO wants to be lynched in this setup??

Vig target locked! Thanks you. Now let's hunt for the Mafia.

Did you actually think that I was truly claiming vigi?
My claim is obviously fake becuase it is fake

[Eragon]

Becuase it’s RvS and the votes mean nothing?

The votes mean as much as they ever do unless we're not allowed to lynch someone yet, which isn't a rule I'm aware of

The so-called “continuing RvS” is pretty much through post 15-16(not sure exact), and it’s just the way to start the game.

WHy do you think they were doing it in a pro-town way?
If you don't - then why try to talk me down from taking it as scum indicative?

And why did you not call me out for RvS’in or the other person you didn’t mention?(I forget)

Because you were early enough it was less certain that you were intentionally avoiding creating wagons.
Were you intentionally avoiding creating a wagon?

I’m not moving my vote to Sesq Becuase I see no reason to see them as scum,

Why do you see them as less scumm (or A50 as more scummy) than your current vote?
If you find them equal why not move?
If you think the votes are meaningless - why not move?

Random votes hold the same power as regular votes, but not the same meaning
A vote in post 14 /=/ a vote in post 73, one random and he other with reasoning

I don’t think it’s scum indicative or pro-town. RvS is purely NAI, and I can’t see why RvS would be AI ever.
Early enough is just based on timing getting to the thread.
I don’t think anyone voting in RvS is trying to avoid creating a wagon, it’s jsut voting someone randomly, hence Random. Voting. stage.

Becuase why would I put a third vote on someone that’s had 1 RvS vote, that is NAI, and no reasoning?
And the first RvS vote is always meaningless, becuase its random.

[Eragon]

Did you actually think that I was truly claiming vigi?
My claim is obviously fake becuase it is fake

Yes, but

why

claim an existing role is the question here. What

if

someone took you seriously and decided to CC?

I mean, I can obviously give you he benefit of doubt here having just seen your play recently, but -if you're town- you need to learn from your mistakes and stop making scummy moves for no apparent reason. You know what I'm saying?

Becuase it’s a joke?

I don’t really think it’s a -mistake- to fakeclaim a role. I think it was pretty obvious with the striked bodyguard, then “oh that’s not a role” “well I guess I’ll claim vigi”

[Eragon]

That's my point, my friend. You claim BG and that's a joke. You claim an existing role and that's a scummy move. What you, I or anyone else thinks of it is irrelevant, for there is a chance -no matter how small- that someone will take it seriously and CC, and then you will of course say "but I was joking". The same as "But I wasn't comfortable putting Scum Tor @L-1 for fear he might be accidentally hammered". You look at it from your own PoV and assume everybody else must see it the same way and that is the problem I'm addressing.

Your defense may have convinced me, or -at least- made me doubt my read on you. After all we only have 2 Mimes so I must be wrong about one of you or Fink. That said, I am giving you some good advice for future games. Whether you take or not is of course your own choice.

what level of player do you think would see someone claim BG in the first post of the game, then cross it out and claim vigi in the same post and take it seriously.

especially

without asking if the claim is serious or not

[Eragon]

I also feel goos about Thor (one of the most dangerous scum players in multi-ball)

If you think I have a rep as dangerous scum, why in the world are you town sorting me and buddying this early?

Because you are being aggressive and moving the game forward fast enough which isn't like scum!you.

As Mafia you would want to stay in the shadows a bit longer and as Mime you would not want to look like you're game solving this early (you want to be lynched AND want to avoid being NK'd by the Mafia).

The way you've been posting makes you a prime NK target for the Mafia, and a much less likely lynch for the next couple of days, so you're not a Mime (and I'm openly Mime hunting as a priority because I don't want to lose having lynched non-town aligned players. That would suck).

Tldr, your play doesn't make sense as Mime and is unlikely to come from Mafia you, so you're Town. Any objections?

this is a great post, however i still don't see what's wrong with eragon? how you can see her as mime, let alone scummy for her posts? could you explain?

him...

[Eragon]

Because you have an equal scum read to them as someone you are voting - so what's the difference? Is your goal *not* to apply pressure with your vote? What are you doing voting if you need a case?

@Eragon

thats the point...

whats the difference?

there is no difference from changing an RvS vote to a vote that isnt my, so why would i do it?

[Eragon]

So far, based off tone I have like IV, but I’ll take a look later when I acually have time to read the posts

I haven’t seen town!A50 at all, and a lot of his posts are wolfy AF.

VOTE: A50
I think I’m comfortable putting my vote here for now

[Eragon]

I haven’t seen town!A50 at all,

That's an outright lie and you can't possibly have forgot this already. Furthermore, these are excerpts from that particular game made by you about me:

Your still pushing me becuase if you backed off
1) it would be incredibly wolfy
2) it would conf. Wolf you
3) it would make you be the top wagon

And can you not see the open wolfing A50 is pretty much doing?

A50’s sole deathtunnel is incredibly wolfy, for the past few pages he has done nothing except tell people to vote me and call me scum, ALL WHILE NOT VOTING ME HIMSELF.

Need I add that while you were also a townie that you:

A- Saved scum from the lynch on D1
B- Pushed and directly resulted in outing a TPR
C- Got SR for your action not only by me, but by other TOWN players, including both TPRs
D- In response, you SR me and paired me with a TPR as the scum team, and had the other TPR as your back up lynch

Do I need to go on or do you concede your play in general is both scummy and OMGUS'y, you have always seem my play as "wolfy", and -most importantly- that the first quote (you saying you never saw town!me) was incorrect. (I have yet to read posts beyond that one, so maybe you mean yo9u have never seen scum!me, but -all the same- you have seen me play exactly like this in a game that has just recently ended and it seems you learned nothing from it (about my play).

I haven’t seen you playing as town

this game

f that wasn’t clear to you

And if you don’t remember, which would be extremely surprising since it was

only last game

and I had you as pretty much lock town early game, until other people moved up from null and you started to push me for getting a TPR.

I don’t know what he fuck A, B, C, and D have to do with anything, but
A) yes, I was wrong
B) as I said last game, was I he

ONLY PERSON

that pushed Fromage and got them to claim? No? I wasn’t. There were

THREE OTHER PEOPLE

that votes with me, me being the second vote. So I don’t think my push directly resulted in him claiming.
C) becuase I was on a TPR wagon, that makes me scum? I don’t know if your just bad or absolutely stupid, becuase What would have happened if Fromage was VT? Would you have pushed me for getting a VT to claim? I doubt it. That just shows no perspecive or thoughts to your reads.
D) is that any worse han you SR’ing me specifically for being in town’s wagon?

My play in general is not wolfy, and last game you were just reaching for a reason to get on my wagon because there weren’t many viable options(except for but I was against that, which was me getting pocketed by Tor)
And not OMGUS’y-well, depends on your view- is it OMGUS to push someone becuase they are going completely reachy on you and pretty much seeming like they are pushing you as a mis-lynch on purpose?

And I was not incorrect in saying I have not seen town!you, you just misunderstood.
I was saying I haven’t seen town!you this game, becuase in Twin Trap I actually had you as a solid townread until you went reachy, this game, I haven’t seen anything towny from you.

[Eragon]

It’s weird.

The sesq wagon shot up very quickly, which is weird, but I like pretty much everyone that’s on the wagon

[Eragon]

@thor your asking what my vote does?

Shows who I think is scum

[Eragon]

So you agree your case is pretty much just look fluffposting?

What about everyone else prodding and fluffposting(myself included)?

[Eragon]

im gonna try to get some reads put out before the end of D1, but its not likely ill get to everyone, unless deadline is a lot longer.

Im gonna start with Sesq

[Eragon]

Sesq-
90 its hard understanding a lot of the context of this post, I don’t really get the comments on Wagons in RvS, it just sounds like a way to get stuff thats seemingly “content” out there that means nothing. Says “I’m not good town” Says DT is just shitposting, yes, I see it, and I agree, but the way they are saying it is kinda defensive. Calls themselves stupid. Calls DT not scum again, twice in the same post. And then says their vote on Lane is real, after only being their second post.
IF you dont mind me asking, what about Lane’s amazing 3 posts(1 RvS) made you think hes scum?
94another self-deprecating post.
12930-something post gap, comes in with “Really”
166another 30-something post gap after “really”, and its just a fluff with artistic value. They call someone mime? Im not sure if its A50 or IV, but they then say “Idk why my votes still on lane, but I dont see any other scum” after calling someone mime…
172again calls Almost a mime and scum, even though they said they dont see any other scum.
193another self-deprecating post, then going on to say DT isn’t one and almost could be mime again. This is the third post in a row saying Almost!Mime, showing they truly think he is mime, but in 166 they said they dont see any other scum. They also asked for a wagon on them to kick them into gear???
212calls their wagon “Epic” and says that even though they promised content with a wagon, just kinda lazy and ehhh…
240calls Thor town because “reasoning makes sense, flows naturally, and contributes” The only thing here somewhat town-telling is the naturality. This seems almost like trying to pocket Thor.
Shades Fa_Q’s post(Sorry if I mistyped your name)
Suddenly calls GuiltyLion scum for fluff posting and “OH I didnt see it earlier this is like obvious scum” which, in context of this game is BS, because plenty of people have low-posted, fluff-posted, and yet you focus solely on GL without bringing anything else up. Also, if GL is scum for Fluffposting, where do you stand?
252is openly admitting your not putting in effort good? I think thats just a reason to “Excuse” your frozen-ness as a wolf, then after shading FA_Q for kinda making them look like scum, says “That’s not necessarily a town move or a scum move” also, then says that their reasoning is exactly what GL said, even though GL disproved the case…
253defends DT again
267i dont really understand first part of the post, then uses self-defense with “I cant be mime because im too honest” and says they dont want to vote DT because “I dont want to throw town under the bus to live” but I see three problems with this.
You cant be 100% positive they are town unless you are scum, so you would rather kill them than die yourself.
They are the Counterwagon so voting them decreases your chance of being lynched.
It seems like you want to get lynched here
282 says their case on GL is “fluffposting and then some” whats and then-some??? I havent seen you say anything except fluff posting.

conclusion:

I think Sesq is scum, but more likely a mime.

[Eragon]

And it’s worth posting becuase cats are the only true gods, and dogs are evil

vote: Eragon

policy lynch this plox

[Eragon]

I agree that Sesq is p scummy but I'm also a little worried that she's a mine. Like the whole "it takes a wagon on me to get me going" just seemed so telegraphed. Would a mine say that to get wagoned or would mafia say that to appear like a mime?

jeez this mindmeld

[Eragon]

do i trust my reads on people as mime...

or do i just lynch who i think is scum lmao.

[Eragon]

then im fine with both wagons right now

[Eragon]

Technicallly from lane’s POV you are the leading wagon becuase he is on the sesq wagon, meaning that he can’t increase the amount of votes on that wagon while he can put you to L-1.

[Eragon]

Literally and for intents and purposes it’s tied

For lanes POV, it’s not

[Eragon]

Almost50 (5): Eragon, Jingle, Nero Cain, RockyHorror, Sesq,
Sesq (5): lane0168, innocentvillager, GuiltyLion, FA_Q2, Almost50,
Nero Cain (1): Thor665,
GuiltyLion (1): Fink,


so im just gonna ignore Sesq and A50 on each other's wagons becuase they were both the last votes and probably just self-pres.

A50: Me, jingle, nero, rocky.
I have a town lean on everyone here, so i feel this wagon is pure(other than sesq)

Sesq: Lane, IV, GL, FA_Q2
this is a lot nuller of a wagon IMO, i dont really have strong leans on anyone here, other than a tonal TR on IV.

[Eragon]

You think sesq is a mime but just stated hammer intent?

(I understand not worrying about the mimes until we actually lynch one, but still hammering someone you think is mime is weird

[Eragon]

VOTE: almost50 L-1

Mimes will hammer themselves

L-2

[Eragon]

You think sesq is a mime but just stated hammer intent?

(I understand not worrying about the mimes until we actually lynch one, but still hammering someone you think is mime is weird

If thor has a mimeread vs a townread at deadline, who would you rather he hammer?

oh, i didnt get that he had a TR on A50 when he posted that.

nvm

[Eragon]

Sesq - 4 - innocentvillager, GuiltyLion, FA_Q2, Almost50
Almost50 - 5 - Eragon, Nero Cain, RockyHorror, Sesq, Lane0168
Nero Cain - 1 - Thor665
GuiltyLion - 1 - Fink

Not Voting - Aristophanes, Jingle

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

[Eragon]

hot damn late day CFD

[Eragon]

thing is, i could probably dig it, but i havent really formed a good read on lane.

ill do an ISO skim probably

[Eragon]

chinese fire drill, term for a last-minute wagon switch

[Eragon]

VOTE: Lane

werent you already voting lane?

no matter

VOTE: Lane

[Eragon]

claim at L-2?

or L-1...

i mean we only have ~5 hours left

[Eragon]

As long as we're sharing dumb ideas, I wasted a bunch of time looking at cat gifs earlier thinking that might be a more productive way to get Eragon on the cool kids' wagon than actual reasoning.

Spoiler: cats

sold.

(except i was on the lane wagon already )

[Eragon]

@thor your asking what my vote does?

Shows who I think is scum

I get the impression that eragon had this long elaborate response typed up, then got concerned about how it would look, deleted it, and came up with this.

Disregard this

What were you thinking when you said it and why aren't you thinking it anymore?

I was thinking what I said when I said it, but doing an iso and seeing the whole picture, I really don't think eragon is scum

Eragon: Yeah I meant I still had that in an open tab from before you voted.

Lane: All these recent posts, the quoting a million things Thor says and still saying basically nothing while walling the shit out of the thread with quote boxes.

ahh i see...
either way you have me pocketed forevah

claim at L-2?

or L-1...

i mean we only have ~5 hours left

I mean... If we want claims at all they should be PR/Not PR and done at L-1. Doing them at L-2 is playing around mimes, which... There aren't words.

ok then.

p-edit: welp, thats L-1

[Eragon]

Lane, you gonna self hammer and give A50 a heart attack?

Yes

VOTE: lane

Spoiler:

[Eragon]

See you in the dead thread on D3.

not D2?

[Eragon]

Nope, I'm too obvtown for scum to shoot N1 with a watcher in play.

:WIFOM:

:GASP:

on another note, do we get a pre-flip reveal???

based on what happened im worried this flips mime

[Eragon]

i slept peacefully

well honestly both mime reads/scum reads for me are gone, so im actually happy with those Night kills.

[Eragon]

i personally feel hypo'ing would be a good idea, but it could also hurt more than help

[Eragon]

{Jingle}
{thor, Rocky}
{IV, Nero}_
{Fink, Aristophanes, FA_Q2}
{GuiltyLion}


to explain the list itself.
Normally, when having good feels and stuff, id put the reads themselves, like town, null town, scum, scum lean, etc...
but right now im not that confident in any of my reads, so reading this you should just do it in order, so Jingle is my strongest town read, and guilty lion i my lowest read.

[Eragon]

Wouldn't hypo'ing be more beneficial to scum?

it could also give info if the watcher dies that we wouldnt otherwise get.

but i agree it could definitely hurt

[Eragon]

Eragon, why have Thor as a strong townread when he pushed so hard on lane?

because i dont feel he starts off the game pretty much scumreading 4-5 different people within the first page as scum.


i dont feel really confident at all rn, but even his push on lane felt natural

[Eragon]

well honestly both mime reads/scum reads for me are gone, so im actually happy with those Night kills.

y say this when you were scum reading GL?

i more or less had a null read on GL so killing 2 of my scumreads is good, because it means i dont push town and i can figure out who of my null/town reads are scum

[Eragon]

And ffs actually look at mine and Thor's exchange before you just call it flailing. I asked him why he thinks something. And he keeps just telling me what he thinks. But nothing about why. Because is meaningless and doesn't hold any water. Maybe if he makes me look like cap for no reason, he can cover it up

actually... this could be saying

"look at mine and thors exchange because he wanted me to get lynched"

[Eragon]

i have a brain fruit idea.

We have the vigi claim, and then town has a leader to follow.

Mime could try to RB the vigi, but the watcher would be on the vigi to stop the mime from blocking, and if the mime DID block then we have confirmed mime.

Same as with Mafia, they can kill the vig at the cost of 1 of their members, or let a confirmed TPR run free

[Eragon]

[Eragon]

the only problem i see is mafia/mime hitting the watcher instead, and leaving the vig without protection

[Eragon]

pings hard as what?

[Eragon]

ok

[Eragon]

4. mime rb's vig and we find the mime.
5. mafia and mime dont do anything and vigi can shoot

the good sides

[Eragon]

and what you forget is that mafia doesnt want mimes to win either so,

if 1 happens, and we catch both, mafia will probably out and hope their partner can win, to make sure the mime doesnt.
or, mafia should'nt kill vigi because then they will have to waste a NK to kill mime

[Eragon]

i think we leave the choice to the vigi himself, because there are ups and downs to it

[Eragon]

why did you think you might die is my question here

[Eragon]

I agree with no lynching

[Eragon]

i slept peacefully

well honestly both mime reads/scum reads for me are gone, so im actually happy with those Night kills.

... wtf is this.

Since when does town say they are happy that 2 town slots were killed?

when they're my 2 strongest scumreads and them both dying gives me clarity of thought(in a sense)

[Eragon]

{Nero, Jingle}
{Rocky, Eragon}
{iv}
{Aris, Thor, Fink, FA_Q2}

i'm thinking mime and both mafia are in that bottom tier but not particularly confident on a mime vs mafia read for any of them yet

these reads are solid.

[Eragon]

VOTE: No-lynch

apathy incarnate

[Eragon]

Eragon sheeping. Sorry, I’m phone posting and the new phone doesn’t understand mafia yet.

guilty as charged.

I normally feel good D1/lose WIM through mid-game/if im still alive I gain WIM back MyLo/Lylo

(also the fact life is hectic with school doesn't help anything)

[Eragon]

im ready to just end the day i just lose interest when we have a set target and i dont really have the time to go for tangents.

[Eragon]

By the way, Thor,

I didn't really want to say till he had a chance to respond to me calling it laughable - that he doubled down on it reads as scummy to me.

Basically his case is 'Thor is scum more than other people voting Lane because Thor tried to get me onto Lane"
Which is all well and good as a theory case - except, as I pointed out in my defense, i also tried to get him onto DT.
He then counters it by quoting me doing *exactly what I said I did* but then handwaves it by pointing out that in debating him I used Lane as my example as opposed to DT as my example which...somehow means really I was clever Lane Mime partner, mwah-haha...?
It's really bad and shows blindness/not actually caring.
I think he's probably some value of scum for that play.

Why is this Rocky laziness scummier than GL laziness? I think you're saying that it's manipulative and so more of a scum mindset, right? But why is GL not pinging you as manipulative?

Like you put

GL on the level of IV and Eragon

and I don't get it.

?.?

huh?

[Eragon]

Save us Aristophanes

[Eragon]

Spoiler:

[Eragon]

So did mine hit the mafia or the vigi?

I think if the mime hit the vigi they should be claiming now, or else the vigi is basically a VT

If the vigi wasn’t roleblocked by the mime, and FA_Q was their kill, then stay silent

[Eragon]

y is eragon townie?

y not.

:0

[Eragon]

y is eragon townie?

y not.

:0

avatar

GASP!

You figured it my nefarious plot!

[Eragon]

is rocky ever coming back 0.0

[Eragon]

welp...

I hope he wouldn't do that with an informative role.

shall we just go raging into that good night?

[Eragon]

ill give ya 11 hours from now

intent

[Eragon]

VOTE: No lynch

Welp. its time.

Rage, Rage, against the dying of the light

[Eragon]

VOTE: Thor

[Eragon]

we need to solve the game today

[Eragon]

{Jingle, Aris}
{IV}
{Fink//GL}
{Thor}

preliminary

[Eragon]

sorry guys you're probably going to hate me for this.


I am watcher

N1, i watched Jingle and No one Visited
N2, i watched Jingle and No one visited
N3, i watched Nero and i saw thor visit

Thor is confirmed mafia and the safest possible lynch

[Eragon]

Jingle, Aris, IV, Fink, GL

this is the group we must solve today.
there is one mafia and one mime in them

UNVOTE: Thor

cant risk a quickhammer today

[Eragon]

Okay. Thor gets lynched today. We kind of don't want to rush this day phase though, because now we don't have any town information to hide.

Play wise, mime should still attempt to stop the mafia kill tonight, because the longer it takes the mafia to shoot the watcher the longer before the mime can be shot. Therefore, Eragon, you should hail mary watch someone scummy tonight despite the fact you're probably a dead man walking.

I'll reread tonight/tomorrow and see who makes the most sense as scum and as mime. I also want to check thor's ISO.

agreed

the funny thing is, I actually was about to watch you again, and then was like
"im amazed he hasn't been visited yet, could he actually be scum?"
so I almost watched you, and would have probably voted for you if no one visited again
but then I realized that was stupid
so I switched to Nero, and yippee

I still soulread you as town, im just amazed your still alive

[Eragon]

I am taking anyone(barring Thor) that doesn't give reads or at least try today, as a scum claim, because it is objectively anti-town when there is currently 4 town vs 3 scum. with 1 conf. town and 1 conf. scum to NOT give reads, because tommorow there will be 3 v 2, with no confirmed town and no confirmed scum

[Eragon]

Ooo we get to play actual Mafia now! =D

I'll look at Thor for associatives!

:3

[Eragon]

That is an aggressive amount of votes without anyone doubling up.

Vote: Sesq

Would also vote Lady Angel, Guilty Lion, or

FA_Q

Would also vot

e Doubting Thomas

.

do we consider this rule of 5's?(ok, thats made up. but basically extension of rule of threes?)

lady angel(Aristophanes) and GL are the 2 unconfirmed here

so do we think mafia calls out 5 town in their first 2 posts, or is at least one mafia?

[Eragon]

massive word stuff that probably means nothing

Spoiler:

That being said, the possibility of lynching a mime actually makes me kind of scared to lynch. How viable would no lynch be as an option?

The fear of lynching a Mime Day 1 is so tiny it should barely be considered - the only danger comes on a day *after* we lynch a Mime and no Mimes are nightkilled.
Since we're not in that situation I fail to see the issue - can you describe why no lynching is beneficial in catching the Mimes and Mafia? If not - that sort of answers your question for you, yeah?

If you think the case is meh then do you think it is a better or worse case than 'did not create a wagon with first post?'

I would consider it roughly equivalent.

I feel this is NAI to Aristophanes

okay so I think A50, Thor, DT, probably Eragon, maybe lane all town

Lane?

hmmm...
questioning a single read on this, especially when It flips mime, seems like it

could

be distancing, but I feel its more likely to not have Mafia!GL
-1 scum equity

okay so I think A50, Thor, DT, probably Eragon, maybe lane all town

Lane?

yes Lane - why is he scum?

I'm not sure if he is - but thus far the extent of his efforts have been a very aggressively pedantic and misrepresentative series of questions/attacks on me and then kind of awkwardly stepping back on it when called on the issue.

I would think, at the very least, the question of whether it was an intentional misrep would keep him in the null category and am at a loss as to why you have him in a town lean category.

Clarify?

ye, this doesn't really feel like SvS
-2 more scum equity for GL

innocentvillager replaces ldkldldldkdkdkdklllkkk

Straight upgrade.

could be SvS
+1

@Thor: I'm not at all angry. It's a legit read.

Sure, but you know I've seen you go into a hard tunnel based on standards before - it doesn't always end well.
You have straws - the straws might mean something, sure, but you're extroverting their meaning at a level way beyond what they deserve.

This is more or less where I am eight now, so make a case on someone I'm not Mime reading and I'll follow.

What's your take on my Lane case?

since for some reason Almost doesn't want to push my wagon despite me being his most confident scumread, can you explain his argument to me? It seems like you kind of understand where he's coming from but I don't

Where do you get that he's not pushing it? He is absolutely pushing it - maybe not in the most efficient way humanely possible, but he's pushing it as much or more than basically anyone else is pushing their cases at the moment. This feels like an empty attack, yeah?

I would say the quickest way to explain it is to say "go do a search for games where Almost is town, and just read how he plays" Yes, he does the same as scum, but that's beside the point. The core revelation is that he tends to (much like myself, which is why I'm sympathetic to his position) get a burr up his backside when people "are not playing right".

You did something he considers inherently poor play, so the working theory from that is you're scum.
It seems like a fairly clear case even if you don't agree to it - why is his stance coming across as confusing and not being pushed to you?

also your post gives me the shudders but people are townreading you for some reason I'm probably just not seeing so i'll let that go

If my case gives you shudders then address me about the shudders - otherwise you're not scumhunting and certainly avoiding trying to sort me.
I'm pretty sure people are towning me for a mix of activity and me being willing to state some opinions clearly.

honestly idk what's going on i'll revisit this tmr

Sesq seems like an easy lynch.
I'm personally more down for DT or Lane at this stage, but I'll admit to not hating the Sesq lynch because...hey, it's an easy lynch for a reason.
Most of the deadness is lack of activity and people not really planting on cases. I support you helping to combat that.

hmmm I dont know here.
this could be good SvS interaction but its also kinda pushy, but from what I've heard that doesn't mean much
0 +/-

huh??

Can't really clarify unless you hone in on where I'm losing you.

^^ that is a "fairly clear case even if I don't agree to it"?? are we reading the same thing thor

Okay, let's babystep it (because my answer is 'yes, it is fairly clear')
Where is his vote on you being lost exactly? Are you claiming you have no idea at all what his issue is?

what I mean by not pushing is basically just empty voting and proclaiming im scum but (1) not caring about other people voting/not voting me and (2) not explaining/refusing to explain to others why I'm scum. If he does either one of those I'd call it a push but if he's doing neither then imo it updates negatively for him

I'll agree he's doing 1.
He's not doing 2 unless I've missed something - I'll note that I just got dinged by Rocky for not describing a case when literally no one had asked me to yet, and might suggest that there is a noted lack of interest in people this game to ask questions prior to hurling suspicion, yeah?

I don't know where you're getting that from. I specifically said that I was okay with a lane vote because of his lack of activity, and even mentioned that I saw him potentially buddying me with his sesq vote. I just think my vote is better positioned as is at the moment.

I was being fairly clear I thought - I quoted you describing your primary Sesq suspicion and made a direct compare/contrast of it to Lane's play and asked why one was a primary suspect and the other was kind of a "meh" read by your own words.
It's great that you suspect him, I think you *should* suspect him. What I want to know is why I can't get your vote on him when the case is basically identical to your other case - and the extent of your answer is "my current vote is better positioned" which is nonsense because the best you've argued for that is "pressure to get content" and, frankly, Lane could do with that just as much as Sesq could, so again - what's the point in not moving if asked?

Do you have an issue with my vote being on sesq instead of lane right now?

Clearly I do, I've expressed a case on Lane, have called Lane one of my prime scumreads, and have suggested that the case on Sesq could be applied to Lane (or DT) whole hog.
Do you have an issue that locks you to Sesq so hard that can actually be described?

you have a good reputation for scum which obviously makes me slightly more skeptical when everyone townreads you. but everyone else also knows that, but they're still townreading you anyway, and I assume they know your meta better

I've actually not played with a fair chunk of this player base.
I would like to think I also have a rep as decent town, no?

that one post you wrote that I felt weird about felt oddly manipulative but im not sure i have more than that gutshot. Maybe you're coaching Almost or something although i hate positing these low probability scenarios.

What did I try to coach Almost on outside of advising him not to rage tunnel you?
And wouldn't that suggest I'm as much potentially your partner as I am his?

this is a lot of commenting about IV, which is interesting
but he also pushed a lot of town so ugh im not really sure here
I think this could be -1 scum equity tho

also what. and yeah there was a weird buddy vibe to it

Well, feel free to have my admission I did exactly that for your case needs.

what i mean is im less inclined to TR you from everyone else TRing you, like you're pretty null for me rn ill keep you around for now

Very hipster

Do you dislike the DT or Lane wagons particularly? Or do you like the Sesq one for some reason I'm missing?

still a lot of focus and questioning of IV
-1

can you state your scumreads based on that reasoning? sounds like you're ruling out quite some teams with that

I don't rule out teams Day 1.
If I had scumreads I felt were remotely worth sharing I'd do so, I'm content with the three I've already offered. And considering I'm only offering two (and both of them pretty soft) town reads I really see little value in discussing who I'd be willing to lynch.

okay he addressed this self-case thing I think but whats your read on sesq, given the bolded that you said?

Sesq is basically a scum read with a slight "hurm" based on him deciding to panic push GL.
Generally I'm thinking he's a Mime right now. It explains a lot.

The downside is if Mafia decide to hunt for TPRs instead, but that can be dealt with by assigning the kills, and if Mafia do not shoot the proposed target then I'd be alright siding by the Mimes over them (it's like "I came to you first and you refused to cooperate, so it was your choice").

I rarely support no lynches - but let's at least be honest with ourselves that this is a laughable threat to try to leash Mafia with.
If you're endorsing a no lynch you have to recognize Mafia are going to shoot for a PR just as likely as they are to shoot for a Mime because both matter to them roughly equally at this stage. You also assuredly don't have my support in the idea of game throwing for the Mimes if Mafia on Night 1 shoots somewhere random.

even more more talking w/ IV
this could be signaling, stuff like "im thinking sesq is probably mime"
to make it so that IV doesn't vote sesq

id rather someone just Smurfing respond to my read on guiltylion. nobody has. not even him

Generally it helps when you ask some*one* to do something.
Group asking, or not asking and then being annoyed at lack of response to either situation is strangely common.

I stand by my previous commentary - I find him null. I don't see much meat in your case, and frankly considering how I could flip your name into his name and have the case make just as much sense I'm worried that you do find meat in it.

I would lay dollars to doughnuts that at least two scum are in the bottom third least active posters.

sold

wait but also why

Even taking out the people who I think are lurking for legit reasons this game's pace is glacial.
There is a strategy at play here, and it's called lurk.
I am also of the opinion in two player scum teams generally there is a active/active enough teammate and one who opts to lurk. Expand that with two teams and you've got a solid explanation for why this game is extra slow soup.
The only bother is the number of town helping to occlude it.

can the three voters restate the case on him because I really don't think he's done anything scummy and I'd like a fresh take on why he's the best place for your vote

viewtopic.php?p=10406398#p10406398

this talk to IV makes it seem like not buddying, but also pushing
very verbose talking to IV, then all he has for GL is a single link...
interesting

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here; how do Sesq's Mime status and FA_Q2's scum status connect in your mind?

They're both not showing me any evidence of being town

Sesq is aggressively playing scummy whereas FA_Q2 looks a lot more like he's trying to avoid the spotlight while sheeping onto the convenient wagon

It's not a connection between the two necessarily, it's just how I feel about assessing their slots and a possible explanation for the gamestate

What makes FA_Q2 stand out from the other lazy voters on the lazy wagon?
I mean, basically half the game is lazy votes, so why him over, say, Fink doubling down on an RVS position, or IV voting Sesq because Sesq gets reads when voted, or me sticking to cases I last described eight pages ago?

these could definitely be SvS distancing

Is is strange that ppl want to lynch scum over Lane? Also, you seem content sitting on a not scum wagon so your whine that we aren't lynching Lane seems odd.

It is not strange that people want ot lynch scum over Lane and I never said anything of the sort - what I did say was that Lane perfectly matches a large number of cases people are pushing, yet I'm the only one looking at him and *that* is suspect (which it is). Want to debate my actual statements instead of a straw man?

You haven't done mch to convince me you're not a scum slot - your predecessor was scummy and this has been very lacksidasical Nero play thus far. Are you claiming I should have a town read on your slot for some reason? Why?

Thor, my wagon has just as much steam as yours, a loud mouthed asshole who actually cares about pushing it through, and managed to destroy two vanity wagons. Can I interest you in the sweet smell of actually progressing the game?

I like the idea of progressing the game, but the A50 run is pretty weak.
Do you actually townread Nero and/or Lane right now? If so - why?

everyone I've seen him SR has either flipped town or mime...
this is weird

@thor, why is it suspect that either A) people disagree with you or B) people agree that the case is equally strong as several others and don't see the point in starting a new wagon that is equally likely to flip scum?

Who is doing B?

Couldn't tell you. Is there another possibility of why people aren't following you? If you think it's exclusively that people disagree with you, why is that suspect?

I think the possibility I'm currently seeing is you're arguing the point from emptiness just to try to beat it down. Bringing up counterpoints youc can't support is not an interesting or pro-town conversation.

I do think Nero is likely town, although it's a weak read at best. 1st, his jump to A50 reads as a genuine scumread. 2nd, his reads progression about a50 matches up with mine fairly nicely. 3rd, the posts in which he does content (particularly 299) feel like they're actually going somewhere.

So basically the town read is mostly predicated on the value of your A50 read?
That's a silly stance.

Regardless, I think that my A50 wagon is clearly superior to your Nero wagon.

It certainly is in size and support...for...some reason.

@Sesq

- hi, I think A50 is town and you're a Mime.
I'm stating Mjolnir intent on you.
Please claim.
I'm also willing to take non-presence as a scum claim, so keep that in mind.

I could see "a silly stance" as being distancing here, it could also discern why thor is being so free with being able to SR town, because a scumteam of thor and jingle never lose by dayplay

@Jingle - That tell is as valid as saying 'people that agree with me are town and people that disagree are scum'.
It's a stance, sure, but I don't think it's less silly than the above.

this could also be distancing

We do still have to come to a consensus over the three possibilities Watcher wise.

Watcher outs if they have useful information.
Watcher hypoclaim.
Watcher holds cards close to chest regardless and we pray for mafia to miss.

I oppose option three, personally and endorse option 2, but it is theoretically a valid course of action. Very high risk, possibly very high reward. If we commit to one of the courses, everyone needs to agree to abide by it.

The theory benefit of choosing option 2 over option 1 is that, if Mafia kill the Watcher we still get info if they have useful info.
The reality negative of option 2 over option 1 is it increases the ability of the Mafia to locate the Watcher regardless of the Watcher having useful info.
Wouldn't that make #1 the better option hands down? The only benefit requires the info to be useful to begin with, yeah?
What am I missing.

I'd advocate doing a faux vote where we can at least provide info on who we would lynch today if we were to lynch.

I'd probably be looking to lynch FA_Q today - I think lynching on the wagon makes immense sense and think any Vig and Mafia shots targeted at the wagon would benefit town.

will have to look at the wagon, but again, looking to Lynch town

In hindsight, yeah, a single result on A50 is probably just immediately out, because trading the watcher for one of the scum is great for us.

Unless the scum are daft they shot for Mime - what makes you think A50 is the Mafia shot as opposed to Sesq?

Aside from the thing from yesterday, the fact that he thinks he'd be an NK target seems like a standard assumption that's easy to have as mafia. I think if he were as good as people seem to imply and he'd been trying to solve the game, he'd be thinking about things like A50 potentially being Vig and Thor being a more likely Mime candidate.

I would be confused by anyone thinking A50 is the Vig at this stage.

this is daft distancing from thor, he tells jingle "why would A50 be the mafia kill"
like...
??
why would A50 be the fucking vigilante kill!

I'm not really caught up, but Thor, do you think that case by Rocky makes him scummy or makes him just laughable?

I didn't really want to say till he had a chance to respond to me calling it laughable - that he doubled down on it reads as scummy to me.
Basically his case is 'Thor is scum more than other people voting Lane because Thor tried to get me onto Lane"
Which is all well and good as a theory case - except, as I pointed out in my defense, i also tried to get him onto DT.
He then counters it by quoting me doing *exactly what I said I did* but then handwaves it by pointing out that in debating him I used Lane as my example as opposed to DT as my example which...somehow means really I was clever Lane Mime partner, mwah-haha...?
It's really bad and shows blindness/not actually caring.
I think he's probably some value of scum for that play.
Do you read that interaction as town from him in any particular way? I'd have a hard time outside of arguing he's really blind and tunneled town for no reason, yeah?

So does anyone have any thoughts at all on what I'm saying about GL?

I would tend to pack it in very similar to my personal response towards IV and Eragorn for their non-responses as justified from who died.
I didn't like any of it, but I'm not sure it's a clear indication of scum mentality over the already apparent lazy mentality of this game state.

hmm actually kinda defends GL here

Why is this Rocky laziness scummier than GL laziness? I think you're saying that it's manipulative and so more of a scum mindset, right? But why is GL not pinging you as manipulative?

I would counter that question with one of my own - describe the GL goal if his current manipulations.
Therein lies my answer, I don't see a goal beyond being lazy, which makes the best case on him one I can apply to a lot of the game. Is there meat to it? Maybe, sure. Is it unique enough to stand out to me - not so much.
Also, Rocky is intentionally twisting actual provable facts - which always feels more like scum to me than someone just apparently signing up for a game they don't care about.
How is Rocky not pinging you?

Like you put GL on the level of IV and Eragon and I don't get it.

I at least think IV is town.
Eragon is assuredly being as lazy and useless as GL - he couldn't even handle a 'describe your top scumspects' question.
But then there's also posts like this;

Jingle. Are you just not reading longer posts?

That can't be it, I owned up to it with a one liner.

This has been Jingle, reading along and seeing nothing worth calling out.

Hey, look, you and Jingle just discovered that the DL/Nero (I'm combining them so Rocky might notice) isn't doing gak and is being scummy.
Wow.
Shock.

I wish I was a Dayvig with five shots right now - we might not win the game, but at least we could trim down to the people playing it.

then comes back and calls GL lazy

I also wish we could somehow trim the playerlist by putting bullets into players who aren't obviously town. If only there was some way of doing that...

It's almost like my point was I wanted to do it faster than the slow grind we are getting to look forward to.

And I agree that Nero isn't really doing anything. I disagree that that is inherently scummy. Hell, in this particular set of circumstances, it might not even be antitown.

If he didn't waste time by attacking Fink over it I could see your point.
But since he did...what are you smoking?

I'm not sure why me missing/not understanding part of the game is causing such a big upset.

Yeah, you'd think they would have listened to me yesterday and saved time.
Maybe Rocky is right - I must have only had those thoughts in my head and am hallucinating them when I look at my posts

again, this feels like distancing to me

Why are we no lynching wgen it is likely we can avoid a mime hit? We only increase the chances of it each day.

VOTE: Rocky

We're no lynching because a Mime lynch equates to a loss for Town and Mafia - and we can flip basically two people each night until we kill the last scum at which point we can start lynching again.

I dont think Aristophanes would do this as a mafia buddy?

It's almost like my point is that the way to make flips happen faster is to no lynch and look at the thread again after flips.

It's almost like that wouldn't be an issue if people were playing the game.

this is kinda like scum theatre

Why join in on this game if you believe that though? It's a pretty heavy night play game to begin with, compounded sharply if a Mime is lynched.

I dont think this comes from SvS

There is nothing preventing scumhunting - only lynching.

Sure there is! If we scumhunt wothout lynching we either let scum guide the Vig or show our hands and get NK'd.

How are scum guiding the vig? The vig is guiding the vig.
If you're fine with the idea of lynching, I fail to see why you're scared to 'show your hand' without a lynch. Express scumreads if you want them to be considered, or stay quiet - but don't act like only a lynch would allow you to express reads.

the irony
but I also think this isnt SvS too

[Eragon]

one thing I DID notice, was that Thor only talked with fink about 2 times, and those were p.much direct question/answers

[Eragon]

I never see Thor/Aristo Mafia

IV/Thor would be pretty hard

Im unsure about GL

jingle/Thor is possible

Fink/Thor is likely

[Eragon]

Its really funny tbh

almost everyone Thor Scumread is basically dead and flipped town/mime

And he Sr's Aristo(I believe) so thats fairly indicative

And he TR's jingle, from what it appeared, so I think thats likely

[Eragon]

Jingle, Aris, IV, Fink, GL

o out of this group, the way I see it

Possible mafia: Jingle/Fink

Possible mime: honestly im not sure, ill have to go do some ISO's

[Eragon]

...

if I had tried to Lynch you without claiming what would've happened??

when we've nolynched the past 2 days and we are no closer to getting mime killed, especially after losing our vig

[Eragon]

literally Eragon is the only player I'm going to interact with today until I'm dead

[Eragon]

@Mod - "fake" v/la for the rest of the game, but let's be honest, literally Eragon is the only player I'm going to interact with today until I'm dead, so if I go quiet for a while it's 100% strategic and I shouldn't be penalized for that. Besides, who would want to replace me at this point

who do you think is mime?

[Eragon]

Almost50 was killed Night 1. He was a

vanilla townie

Sesq was also killed Night 1. She was a

Vanilla townie

Day 2 starts now

Deadline is Wednesday, September 12 at 5:30pm EST.

A

l

m

o

s

t

5

0

d

o

e

s

i

t

a

g

a

i

n

!

Sorry, didn't realize you were VT crumbing until superlate. 443 was super nice though.

This post is super weird, like "Lookie I realized they were VT so I def didn't kill them!"

Also What in God's Name is a Hypo Claim!?!?

spicy

[Eragon]

D1. votecount

Could it be as easy as fink/jingle?

lane0168 - 7 - Fink, Jingle,

Thor665

,

Eragon, Almost50, FA_Q2

,

lane0168

Almost50 - 3 -

Nero Cain, RockyHorror, Sesq

Sesq - 2 - innocentvillager, GuiltyLion

Not Voting - Aristophanes

[Eragon]

To clarify the above - you are basically asking me to try to help locate 1 team I'm playing against in order to aid a second team I'm playing against, and in offering a legit read all I'd be doing for both teams I'm playing against is narrowing the potential pool to find the one team I'm playing for.

Now, I *could* answer your question tricksily - and include my scumbuddy in any theory Mime discussion, and trollololol. But I actually don't like playing scum because I don't like lying, so it's easier to just, y'know, not try to help the two teams I'm playing against?

I mean, basically my buddy already has my (doubtless brilliant) thoughts. And unless the Mime finds them and locks them down with roleblock (or we get to lylo) there is no world where we are lynching my partner before the Mime dies, so it's actually anti-wincon to me to help town locate a Mime, much less to be honest about it, y'dig?

I know, I was actually hoping you’d try to lie and inadvertently give away who your partner was
;-;

I wasn’t really expecting much

[Eragon]

So it’s a 2v5 next

I’m assuming you are killing me, so that’s a 2v4

Then nolynch

Then probably one more death

2v 3
Which is then when you nolynch and shoot to kill the mime
And hope you win the 1v3

[Eragon]

actually, if mime wants to win, they SHOULD be blocking the mafia

because if im not alive, then the mime wont be lynched because town wont be lynching for fear, and they have no good info to go off of

IF i am alive, i can try to find the mafia, and get them lynched, then its just up to the mime to get lynched, with getting lynched being the only way to die

[Eragon]

but if the mime is blocking the mafia then you're only going to catch the mime and not the mafia, right? I'm assuming a roleblocked mafia won't show up as visiting another player

setup seems pretty silly lmao

DAMNIT GL

[Eragon]

No lynch today:

Thor can shoot, watcher can target Thor. Watcher is 0% threat to scum, because the only antiscum result he can get is that Thor is mafia, which we already know. Therefore, mafia has no reason to target watcher and can mime hunt. Thus mime should block mafia, but can't because watcher will be on Thor. Thor will shoot in {Not thor's partner, Not Eragon} Meaning in an absence of reads they have a 25% chance of hitting mime. I'm clearly not the mime, so that increases to 33%. Tomorrow is either 4v2 or 3v2v1. Mime will help lynch thor, so it becomes 3v1v1 going into night. Either 1v3 MYLO or 2v1v1 MYLO.

this seems like the best option to me

I’m actually down with this, on one condition

If I die, ya’ll insta Thor

[Eragon]

If we no lynch, Eragon is 100% watching Thor. This gives us the best chance at beating specifically the mime faction.

If we lynch Thor,

Eragon is 100% watching not Thor

. This gives us the best chance at beating specifically the mafia faction. Additionally, we could have Eragon choose his watch target publicly to incentivize the mime to roleblock further (because a negative result from the watcher with no kill means that the person who got targeted by the watcher was not mafia, benefiting town), but given my previous post that shouldn't be necessary because strictly numbers wise, the mime wants to find the mafia TODAY when there is no risk of them being shot over tomorrow when there is a high risk of them being shot.

If we lynch for Thor's partner, Eragon is 100% watching Thor and unless he's incompetent (a trait Thor is not known for) Thor is shooting for the mime. This gives us a moderate chance of beating both factions and the only chance of Eragon surviving to LYLO, with the risk of instant loss to lynching the mime right now.

All three are viable courses of action, and I want everyone not named Eragon to weigh in on them before Eragon makes the choice, because that should give us information to look at to determine who is mime and who is mafia.

the bolded made me lol

[Eragon]

I mean, it was just funny

like, "if thor dies im 100% not watching thor"

[Eragon]

@Thor

Do you agree with that plan of action?
I feel it is the best way to confirm a win between either the mafia or the town, because if you kill me, there is no way you will find the mime until late game, and by then, it will be too late as your dead and then your partner will need to be king made over the mime.

If we no-lynch today, you take the kill, and I watch you, we absolutely confirm a non-mime win.

[Eragon]

If we no-lynch and you decide to kill me anyways, that makes it 3 v 2 v 1, and you would be lynched the next day
so going into the next night it would be 3 v 1 v 1
and your partner would have no proof on who mime is, just who might be, and as someone said, you could make a mime case on almost anyone and believe it.
so if mafia kills town again, thats 2 v 1 v 1, which are odds I would not like to take as mafia, having a 33% chance to instant lose.

On the other hand, we could ask the mime to claim right now, and we leash them until end-game, incase we need to Lynch them to prevent a mafia win.
this would confirm a mafia loss and/or give town a much much better chance to beat mafia if you kill the mime that would be king-made over you anyways

[Eragon]

so your choice is to either let me live and be able to kill freely yourself and have a good chance of winning

or have an almost confirmed loss.

the choice is yours

[Eragon]

@KMD

can we get a prod on Innocentvillager please?

He still hasn't picked up the prod I sent 12 hours ago.

[Eragon]

@Thor

Do you agree with that plan of action?
I feel it is the best way to confirm a win between either the mafia or the town, because if you kill me, there is no way you will find the mime until late game, and by then, it will be too late as your dead and then your partner will need to be king made over the mime.

If we no-lynch today, you take the kill, and I watch you, we absolutely confirm a non-mime win.

I've got no problem with that plan. It basically assures me of killing either a town or a Mime which benefits my wincon.

Coolio :3

[Eragon]

Plus it will give me an extra day to keep my post count above Jingle's

Always the most important things

[Eragon]

@KMD

can we get a prod on Innocentvillager please?

He still hasn't picked up the prod I sent 12 hours ago.

Oh sorry lol

[Eragon]

Tbph I don’t wNt to lynch Thor today
M

[Eragon]

I think we should lynch fink/IV/maaaaaaaaaaaybe jingle?

[Eragon]

I made myself chocolate avocado pudding the other day, it was really excellent and had a very lovely texture as well. Wasn't expecting that.
Now if I could just figure out what I'm going to cook the fiancee' for dinner tonight...
I suppose I'll just see whatever's on sale.

Sushi.

Sushi is always on sale

[Eragon]

Who?

[Eragon]

Ahh

[Eragon]

why do you think GL is goon?

[Eragon]

I still don't think Thor is the best lynch today

[Eragon]

Why waste our lynch on confirmed scum when we can make a deal with mafia?

[Eragon]

If mafia doesn't uphold the deal, we lynch Thor anyways and give win to mime if possible

[Eragon]

Lmfao at not voting confscum.

Seriously.

Isn't Deku smarter than this?

[Eragon]

If we no lynch now, we have a chance to catch mime and have our lynch options lowered

If we lynch Thor, mafia will kill me no matter what

[Eragon]

VOTE: No lynch

This is our best option to win IMO

a no-lynch maximizes our chances and time we have

[Eragon]

I'd rather take a risk now when we have a chance

We still have majority tommorow(or tied, but then mime has to out to save mafia)
Because it will be : 3 v 2 v 1

If I die tonight, you need to lynch Thor no mater what

But while I'm alive, keeping Thor around is the best play

[Eragon]

I disagree on mafia!GL

I don't see the Thor interactions as W/W

[Eragon]

I'm ok with lynching for Thor' partner, but I'm worried about the extra risk.

But what the hell is life without risk?

[Eragon]

Why would Mafia have Thor make the shot?

Because I watch thor

[Eragon]

Vote Count

lane0168 - 5 - Fink, Jingle, Thor665, Eragon, Almost50
Almost50 - 4 - Nero Cain, RockyHorror, Sesq, lane0168
Sesq - 3 - innocentvillager, GuiltyLion, FA_Q2

Not Voting - Aristophanes

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Deadline is Sunday September 2 at 10pm EST

Is fink just mime here?
Or is that too obvious?

[Eragon]

and?

There's no risk to mafia with Thor taking the kill, and I can catch the mime if they try to stop the kill

[Eragon]

Okay, so plan A is shot out of the water.

Time to consider if a plan B works.

Currently we're at 4v2v1. After tonight that becomes 3v1v1.

I will 100% kingmake mime in 1v1v1, and any town player should do the same, mechanically speaking, therefore mafia needs to find the mime to win.

808 is valid with the exception that we definitely lynch in 1v1v2. We cannot win a 1v1v1 LYLO, but mime still has to pretend to be town in 1v1v2.

Alternative math to Lynching Thor.

No lynch today:

Thor can shoot, watcher can target Thor. Watcher is 0% threat to scum, because the only antiscum result he can get is that Thor is mafia, which we already know. Therefore, mafia has no reason to target watcher and can mime hunt. Thus mime should block mafia, but can't because watcher will be on Thor. Thor will shoot in {Not thor's partner, Not Eragon} Meaning in an absence of reads they have a 25% chance of hitting mime. I'm clearly not the mime, so that increases to 33%. Tomorrow is either 4v2 or 3v2v1. Mime will help lynch thor, so it becomes 3v1v1 going into night. Either 1v3 MYLO or 2v1v1 MYLO.

We lynch NotThor today:

Lynch mime: Autolose. 20%
Lynch Scum: Autowin. 20%
Lynch Town: 3v2v1 going into night, with the same caveats as above. No point in shooting Eragon tonight, so they shoot for mime. 33% chance. If we lynch not-me town, that's a 50/50. Next day is either 3v2 with one conftown and one confscum, which becomes 2v1 LYLO, or 2v2v1. 2v2v1, mime needs to lynch Thor to win, so will vote with town. At which point scum needs to shoot the mime to not rely on town picking scum over mime (lolnope, explained below), and we have a 2v1 with a confirmed town.

Explanation of 1v1v1:

Mafia wins by lynching town or going to night.
Mime wins by lynching self.
Town wins by lynching mafia.

Town has Kingmaker position here, but if we instead agree to vote any self votes in LYLO, Mafia has to obscure the identity of the mime and play for a no lynch. Therefore, voting a selfvote in LYLO is the only possible way to win as town.

Pick this post the fuck apart, because I don't want to lose to a gap in my logic.

[Eragon]

GL is likely mime and is a bad vote.

Thor isnt making the kill tn regardless so that's just stupid.

Investigative obv dies tn unless Mime will block them and allow mafia to shoot elsewhere, which is a level of coordination I don't see as likely tn. However it lets us find out a lot over the night via who dies or is blocked and may lead us to victory.

How am I wrong and why because it all makes sense to me.

Holy 10 ninjas man damn

If Thor doesn't get lynched I don't need to be killed by mafia.

We discussed this already

[Eragon]

Also we can have Thor kill targets we want

For example

@thor

Kill between (Fink/IV) tonight please
I'm leaving this open so you don't insta-confirm your buddy
If one of these doesn't die tonight we will probably lynch you

[Eragon]

Fine, you watch thor and mine blocks you.

Then what?
Mafia are probably unblocked whether he lives or not and we get no info from ya. The plan is flawed.

Is that worse than me being dead?

[Eragon]

You missed a couple interactions, like the one where they were talking about lane.
That didn't seem like scum

I did actually make a massive word dump

Also, for little between them, you can say the same about yourself

[Eragon]

A mislynhc right now is bad

A Thor increases mafia and mimes chance of winning


A no-lynch give sus best chance

[Eragon]

You missed a couple interactions, like the one where they were talking about lane.
That didn't seem like scum

I did actually make a massive word dump

Also, for little between them, you can say the same about yourself

THAT IS MY WHOLE POINT! AND GL DID. WHICH IS MY POINT

Which, like GL said, means either both or none of you are scummmy, from that viewpoint

But the posts I saw tend to lean less towards a mafia!GL

[Eragon]

So we have an IC leading the scum kill then?

That sounds ideal but we end up at 2v1v3 or 2v1v2 tomorrow (depending if we lynch elsewhere or nowhere tn) if we leave Thor alive, and we have a chance of lynching mime if we do the latter. We are at a numerical disadvantage and need to lynch Thor tomorrow if not today no matter what.

Then its 1v1v2 or 1v1v1 because we would be even bigger idiots to not lymch Thor tomorrow (2v1v1 or 2v? Maf win) and it becomes mostly impossiblefor us.

Our best strat is to get rid of Thor now.

Like 6 more ninjae

Or if we hit mime with the kill

0.0

That helps

[Eragon]

massive word stuff that probably means nothing

Spoiler:

That being said, the possibility of lynching a mime actually makes me kind of scared to lynch. How viable would no lynch be as an option?

The fear of lynching a Mime Day 1 is so tiny it should barely be considered - the only danger comes on a day *after* we lynch a Mime and no Mimes are nightkilled.
Since we're not in that situation I fail to see the issue - can you describe why no lynching is beneficial in catching the Mimes and Mafia? If not - that sort of answers your question for you, yeah?

If you think the case is meh then do you think it is a better or worse case than 'did not create a wagon with first post?'

I would consider it roughly equivalent.

I feel this is NAI to Aristophanes

okay so I think A50, Thor, DT, probably Eragon, maybe lane all town

Lane?

hmmm...
questioning a single read on this, especially when It flips mime, seems like it

could

be distancing, but I feel its more likely to not have Mafia!GL
-1 scum equity

okay so I think A50, Thor, DT, probably Eragon, maybe lane all town

Lane?

yes Lane - why is he scum?

I'm not sure if he is - but thus far the extent of his efforts have been a very aggressively pedantic and misrepresentative series of questions/attacks on me and then kind of awkwardly stepping back on it when called on the issue.

I would think, at the very least, the question of whether it was an intentional misrep would keep him in the null category and am at a loss as to why you have him in a town lean category.

Clarify?

ye, this doesn't really feel like SvS
-2 more scum equity for GL

innocentvillager replaces ldkldldldkdkdkdklllkkk

Straight upgrade.

could be SvS
+1

@Thor: I'm not at all angry. It's a legit read.

Sure, but you know I've seen you go into a hard tunnel based on standards before - it doesn't always end well.
You have straws - the straws might mean something, sure, but you're extroverting their meaning at a level way beyond what they deserve.

This is more or less where I am eight now, so make a case on someone I'm not Mime reading and I'll follow.

What's your take on my Lane case?

since for some reason Almost doesn't want to push my wagon despite me being his most confident scumread, can you explain his argument to me? It seems like you kind of understand where he's coming from but I don't

Where do you get that he's not pushing it? He is absolutely pushing it - maybe not in the most efficient way humanely possible, but he's pushing it as much or more than basically anyone else is pushing their cases at the moment. This feels like an empty attack, yeah?

I would say the quickest way to explain it is to say "go do a search for games where Almost is town, and just read how he plays" Yes, he does the same as scum, but that's beside the point. The core revelation is that he tends to (much like myself, which is why I'm sympathetic to his position) get a burr up his backside when people "are not playing right".

You did something he considers inherently poor play, so the working theory from that is you're scum.
It seems like a fairly clear case even if you don't agree to it - why is his stance coming across as confusing and not being pushed to you?

also your post gives me the shudders but people are townreading you for some reason I'm probably just not seeing so i'll let that go

If my case gives you shudders then address me about the shudders - otherwise you're not scumhunting and certainly avoiding trying to sort me.
I'm pretty sure people are towning me for a mix of activity and me being willing to state some opinions clearly.

honestly idk what's going on i'll revisit this tmr

Sesq seems like an easy lynch.
I'm personally more down for DT or Lane at this stage, but I'll admit to not hating the Sesq lynch because...hey, it's an easy lynch for a reason.
Most of the deadness is lack of activity and people not really planting on cases. I support you helping to combat that.

hmmm I dont know here.
this could be good SvS interaction but its also kinda pushy, but from what I've heard that doesn't mean much
0 +/-

huh??

Can't really clarify unless you hone in on where I'm losing you.

^^ that is a "fairly clear case even if I don't agree to it"?? are we reading the same thing thor

Okay, let's babystep it (because my answer is 'yes, it is fairly clear')
Where is his vote on you being lost exactly? Are you claiming you have no idea at all what his issue is?

what I mean by not pushing is basically just empty voting and proclaiming im scum but (1) not caring about other people voting/not voting me and (2) not explaining/refusing to explain to others why I'm scum. If he does either one of those I'd call it a push but if he's doing neither then imo it updates negatively for him

I'll agree he's doing 1.
He's not doing 2 unless I've missed something - I'll note that I just got dinged by Rocky for not describing a case when literally no one had asked me to yet, and might suggest that there is a noted lack of interest in people this game to ask questions prior to hurling suspicion, yeah?

I don't know where you're getting that from. I specifically said that I was okay with a lane vote because of his lack of activity, and even mentioned that I saw him potentially buddying me with his sesq vote. I just think my vote is better positioned as is at the moment.

I was being fairly clear I thought - I quoted you describing your primary Sesq suspicion and made a direct compare/contrast of it to Lane's play and asked why one was a primary suspect and the other was kind of a "meh" read by your own words.
It's great that you suspect him, I think you *should* suspect him. What I want to know is why I can't get your vote on him when the case is basically identical to your other case - and the extent of your answer is "my current vote is better positioned" which is nonsense because the best you've argued for that is "pressure to get content" and, frankly, Lane could do with that just as much as Sesq could, so again - what's the point in not moving if asked?

Do you have an issue with my vote being on sesq instead of lane right now?

Clearly I do, I've expressed a case on Lane, have called Lane one of my prime scumreads, and have suggested that the case on Sesq could be applied to Lane (or DT) whole hog.
Do you have an issue that locks you to Sesq so hard that can actually be described?

you have a good reputation for scum which obviously makes me slightly more skeptical when everyone townreads you. but everyone else also knows that, but they're still townreading you anyway, and I assume they know your meta better

I've actually not played with a fair chunk of this player base.
I would like to think I also have a rep as decent town, no?

that one post you wrote that I felt weird about felt oddly manipulative but im not sure i have more than that gutshot. Maybe you're coaching Almost or something although i hate positing these low probability scenarios.

What did I try to coach Almost on outside of advising him not to rage tunnel you?
And wouldn't that suggest I'm as much potentially your partner as I am his?

this is a lot of commenting about IV, which is interesting
but he also pushed a lot of town so ugh im not really sure here
I think this could be -1 scum equity tho

also what. and yeah there was a weird buddy vibe to it

Well, feel free to have my admission I did exactly that for your case needs.

what i mean is im less inclined to TR you from everyone else TRing you, like you're pretty null for me rn ill keep you around for now

Very hipster

Do you dislike the DT or Lane wagons particularly? Or do you like the Sesq one for some reason I'm missing?

still a lot of focus and questioning of IV
-1

can you state your scumreads based on that reasoning? sounds like you're ruling out quite some teams with that

I don't rule out teams Day 1.
If I had scumreads I felt were remotely worth sharing I'd do so, I'm content with the three I've already offered. And considering I'm only offering two (and both of them pretty soft) town reads I really see little value in discussing who I'd be willing to lynch.

okay he addressed this self-case thing I think but whats your read on sesq, given the bolded that you said?

Sesq is basically a scum read with a slight "hurm" based on him deciding to panic push GL.
Generally I'm thinking he's a Mime right now. It explains a lot.

The downside is if Mafia decide to hunt for TPRs instead, but that can be dealt with by assigning the kills, and if Mafia do not shoot the proposed target then I'd be alright siding by the Mimes over them (it's like "I came to you first and you refused to cooperate, so it was your choice").

I rarely support no lynches - but let's at least be honest with ourselves that this is a laughable threat to try to leash Mafia with.
If you're endorsing a no lynch you have to recognize Mafia are going to shoot for a PR just as likely as they are to shoot for a Mime because both matter to them roughly equally at this stage. You also assuredly don't have my support in the idea of game throwing for the Mimes if Mafia on Night 1 shoots somewhere random.

even more more talking w/ IV
this could be signaling, stuff like "im thinking sesq is probably mime"
to make it so that IV doesn't vote sesq

id rather someone just Smurfing respond to my read on guiltylion. nobody has. not even him

Generally it helps when you ask some*one* to do something.
Group asking, or not asking and then being annoyed at lack of response to either situation is strangely common.

I stand by my previous commentary - I find him null. I don't see much meat in your case, and frankly considering how I could flip your name into his name and have the case make just as much sense I'm worried that you do find meat in it.

I would lay dollars to doughnuts that at least two scum are in the bottom third least active posters.

sold

wait but also why

Even taking out the people who I think are lurking for legit reasons this game's pace is glacial.
There is a strategy at play here, and it's called lurk.
I am also of the opinion in two player scum teams generally there is a active/active enough teammate and one who opts to lurk. Expand that with two teams and you've got a solid explanation for why this game is extra slow soup.
The only bother is the number of town helping to occlude it.

can the three voters restate the case on him because I really don't think he's done anything scummy and I'd like a fresh take on why he's the best place for your vote

viewtopic.php?p=10406398#p10406398

this talk to IV makes it seem like not buddying, but also pushing
very verbose talking to IV, then all he has for GL is a single link...
interesting

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here; how do Sesq's Mime status and FA_Q2's scum status connect in your mind?

They're both not showing me any evidence of being town

Sesq is aggressively playing scummy whereas FA_Q2 looks a lot more like he's trying to avoid the spotlight while sheeping onto the convenient wagon

It's not a connection between the two necessarily, it's just how I feel about assessing their slots and a possible explanation for the gamestate

What makes FA_Q2 stand out from the other lazy voters on the lazy wagon?
I mean, basically half the game is lazy votes, so why him over, say, Fink doubling down on an RVS position, or IV voting Sesq because Sesq gets reads when voted, or me sticking to cases I last described eight pages ago?

these could definitely be SvS distancing

Is is strange that ppl want to lynch scum over Lane? Also, you seem content sitting on a not scum wagon so your whine that we aren't lynching Lane seems odd.

It is not strange that people want ot lynch scum over Lane and I never said anything of the sort - what I did say was that Lane perfectly matches a large number of cases people are pushing, yet I'm the only one looking at him and *that* is suspect (which it is). Want to debate my actual statements instead of a straw man?

You haven't done mch to convince me you're not a scum slot - your predecessor was scummy and this has been very lacksidasical Nero play thus far. Are you claiming I should have a town read on your slot for some reason? Why?

Thor, my wagon has just as much steam as yours, a loud mouthed asshole who actually cares about pushing it through, and managed to destroy two vanity wagons. Can I interest you in the sweet smell of actually progressing the game?

I like the idea of progressing the game, but the A50 run is pretty weak.
Do you actually townread Nero and/or Lane right now? If so - why?

everyone I've seen him SR has either flipped town or mime...
this is weird

@thor, why is it suspect that either A) people disagree with you or B) people agree that the case is equally strong as several others and don't see the point in starting a new wagon that is equally likely to flip scum?

Who is doing B?

Couldn't tell you. Is there another possibility of why people aren't following you? If you think it's exclusively that people disagree with you, why is that suspect?

I think the possibility I'm currently seeing is you're arguing the point from emptiness just to try to beat it down. Bringing up counterpoints youc can't support is not an interesting or pro-town conversation.

I do think Nero is likely town, although it's a weak read at best. 1st, his jump to A50 reads as a genuine scumread. 2nd, his reads progression about a50 matches up with mine fairly nicely. 3rd, the posts in which he does content (particularly 299) feel like they're actually going somewhere.

So basically the town read is mostly predicated on the value of your A50 read?
That's a silly stance.

Regardless, I think that my A50 wagon is clearly superior to your Nero wagon.

It certainly is in size and support...for...some reason.

@Sesq

- hi, I think A50 is town and you're a Mime.
I'm stating Mjolnir intent on you.
Please claim.
I'm also willing to take non-presence as a scum claim, so keep that in mind.

I could see "a silly stance" as being distancing here, it could also discern why thor is being so free with being able to SR town, because a scumteam of thor and jingle never lose by dayplay

@Jingle - That tell is as valid as saying 'people that agree with me are town and people that disagree are scum'.
It's a stance, sure, but I don't think it's less silly than the above.

this could also be distancing

We do still have to come to a consensus over the three possibilities Watcher wise.

Watcher outs if they have useful information.
Watcher hypoclaim.
Watcher holds cards close to chest regardless and we pray for mafia to miss.

I oppose option three, personally and endorse option 2, but it is theoretically a valid course of action. Very high risk, possibly very high reward. If we commit to one of the courses, everyone needs to agree to abide by it.

The theory benefit of choosing option 2 over option 1 is that, if Mafia kill the Watcher we still get info if they have useful info.
The reality negative of option 2 over option 1 is it increases the ability of the Mafia to locate the Watcher regardless of the Watcher having useful info.
Wouldn't that make #1 the better option hands down? The only benefit requires the info to be useful to begin with, yeah?
What am I missing.

I'd advocate doing a faux vote where we can at least provide info on who we would lynch today if we were to lynch.

I'd probably be looking to lynch FA_Q today - I think lynching on the wagon makes immense sense and think any Vig and Mafia shots targeted at the wagon would benefit town.

will have to look at the wagon, but again, looking to Lynch town

In hindsight, yeah, a single result on A50 is probably just immediately out, because trading the watcher for one of the scum is great for us.

Unless the scum are daft they shot for Mime - what makes you think A50 is the Mafia shot as opposed to Sesq?

Aside from the thing from yesterday, the fact that he thinks he'd be an NK target seems like a standard assumption that's easy to have as mafia. I think if he were as good as people seem to imply and he'd been trying to solve the game, he'd be thinking about things like A50 potentially being Vig and Thor being a more likely Mime candidate.

I would be confused by anyone thinking A50 is the Vig at this stage.

this is daft distancing from thor, he tells jingle "why would A50 be the mafia kill"
like...
??
why would A50 be the fucking vigilante kill!

I'm not really caught up, but Thor, do you think that case by Rocky makes him scummy or makes him just laughable?

I didn't really want to say till he had a chance to respond to me calling it laughable - that he doubled down on it reads as scummy to me.
Basically his case is 'Thor is scum more than other people voting Lane because Thor tried to get me onto Lane"
Which is all well and good as a theory case - except, as I pointed out in my defense, i also tried to get him onto DT.
He then counters it by quoting me doing *exactly what I said I did* but then handwaves it by pointing out that in debating him I used Lane as my example as opposed to DT as my example which...somehow means really I was clever Lane Mime partner, mwah-haha...?
It's really bad and shows blindness/not actually caring.
I think he's probably some value of scum for that play.
Do you read that interaction as town from him in any particular way? I'd have a hard time outside of arguing he's really blind and tunneled town for no reason, yeah?

So does anyone have any thoughts at all on what I'm saying about GL?

I would tend to pack it in very similar to my personal response towards IV and Eragorn for their non-responses as justified from who died.
I didn't like any of it, but I'm not sure it's a clear indication of scum mentality over the already apparent lazy mentality of this game state.

hmm actually kinda defends GL here

Why is this Rocky laziness scummier than GL laziness? I think you're saying that it's manipulative and so more of a scum mindset, right? But why is GL not pinging you as manipulative?

I would counter that question with one of my own - describe the GL goal if his current manipulations.
Therein lies my answer, I don't see a goal beyond being lazy, which makes the best case on him one I can apply to a lot of the game. Is there meat to it? Maybe, sure. Is it unique enough to stand out to me - not so much.
Also, Rocky is intentionally twisting actual provable facts - which always feels more like scum to me than someone just apparently signing up for a game they don't care about.
How is Rocky not pinging you?

Like you put GL on the level of IV and Eragon and I don't get it.

I at least think IV is town.
Eragon is assuredly being as lazy and useless as GL - he couldn't even handle a 'describe your top scumspects' question.
But then there's also posts like this;

Jingle. Are you just not reading longer posts?

That can't be it, I owned up to it with a one liner.

This has been Jingle, reading along and seeing nothing worth calling out.

Hey, look, you and Jingle just discovered that the DL/Nero (I'm combining them so Rocky might notice) isn't doing gak and is being scummy.
Wow.
Shock.

I wish I was a Dayvig with five shots right now - we might not win the game, but at least we could trim down to the people playing it.

then comes back and calls GL lazy

I also wish we could somehow trim the playerlist by putting bullets into players who aren't obviously town. If only there was some way of doing that...

It's almost like my point was I wanted to do it faster than the slow grind we are getting to look forward to.

And I agree that Nero isn't really doing anything. I disagree that that is inherently scummy. Hell, in this particular set of circumstances, it might not even be antitown.

If he didn't waste time by attacking Fink over it I could see your point.
But since he did...what are you smoking?

I'm not sure why me missing/not understanding part of the game is causing such a big upset.

Yeah, you'd think they would have listened to me yesterday and saved time.
Maybe Rocky is right - I must have only had those thoughts in my head and am hallucinating them when I look at my posts

again, this feels like distancing to me

Why are we no lynching wgen it is likely we can avoid a mime hit? We only increase the chances of it each day.

VOTE: Rocky

We're no lynching because a Mime lynch equates to a loss for Town and Mafia - and we can flip basically two people each night until we kill the last scum at which point we can start lynching again.

I dont think Aristophanes would do this as a mafia buddy?

It's almost like my point is that the way to make flips happen faster is to no lynch and look at the thread again after flips.

It's almost like that wouldn't be an issue if people were playing the game.

this is kinda like scum theatre

Why join in on this game if you believe that though? It's a pretty heavy night play game to begin with, compounded sharply if a Mime is lynched.

I dont think this comes from SvS

There is nothing preventing scumhunting - only lynching.

Sure there is! If we scumhunt wothout lynching we either let scum guide the Vig or show our hands and get NK'd.

How are scum guiding the vig? The vig is guiding the vig.
If you're fine with the idea of lynching, I fail to see why you're scared to 'show your hand' without a lynch. Express scumreads if you want them to be considered, or stay quiet - but don't act like only a lynch would allow you to express reads.

the irony
but I also think this isnt SvS too

[Eragon]

If we don't lynch Thor, he will follow our plan that we set, or we will end up kingmaking mime if it comes down to it.

Keeping Thor alive and basically making them a vigilante is objectively our best play

[Eragon]

Lynching Thor makes this game mountainous

3 v 1 v 1 with an instant loss lynch and 5 people that really, none are that towny(except jingle but that's part of the problem) and terrible activity

If you somehow manage to win a 3 v 1 v 1 then good for you

I'd rather take my chances with catching/killing mime and having a backup lynch if it comes down

[Eragon]

Lynching Thor makes this game mountainous

3 v 1 v 1 with

an instant loss lynch and 5 people that really, none are that towny(except jingle but that's part of the problem) and terrible activity

If you somehow manage to win a 3 v 1 v 1 then good for you

I'd rather take my chances with catching/killing mime and having a backup lynch if it comes down

Keywords right there

[Eragon]

I have a bad feeling about mime being fink/GL, especially based on their placements on the lane wagon

[Eragon]

I get that, but we can navigate a 3v1v1.

We rely on both scum fractions to do out bidding in all the other plans and we simply cannot rely on it.

Why is Thor going to help us if we basically jave to lynch him tomorrow no matter if he does or not?

Because finding mime gives him the best chance to win as well

Plus him being alive, which in itself is good


If you seriously think that you guys can win a 3 v 1 v 1 with all that paranoia, more power to you.

I doubt it

[Eragon]

If the mime doesn't die, There will always be the risk of instant losing


Catching the mime helps all our wincons

[Eragon]

I think my order of trust right now is actually this(shock warning)

Myself > Dark Shadow > Aristophanes(in a sense of being Town.) > Thor( he is outed scum and I feel he is being downright honest with us)

Like.
I'm paranoid of everyone else being lying scum, trying to mislead us.
Thor is just stating facts as outed scum, and no real reason for him to lie

[Eragon]

Fuck idk.

I agree with jingle.

I can legit make a mime case for anyone and believe it,

Like, IV could just be slacking waiting to be lynched late game?

Fink and GL both were early on the wagon of lane.

There's more.

Ugh

[Eragon]

Who the fuck is Dark Shadow?

And yeah, Thor is the towniest person in this game.

Joke based on my avi

[Eragon]

Why are we having Thor shoot Fink or IV instead.of Fink or GL?

Or should we give him a threeway choice?

True

[Eragon]

Mafia(Thor) knows that if they kill me, mafia WILL lose unless they shoot mime

If they break the deal, and we don't have a chance, kingmake mime over mafia IMO.

This gives mafia incentive to both further their wincon and ours

[Eragon]

Urgh I really don't want to lynch anyone, but if we are taking a risk might as well go for it

I'm way to paranoid to lynch GL/Fink though

[Eragon]

You know what

If we think mime was on lane's wagon

Fink is mime

(Or jingle, but I don't see mime jingle coming up with the plans for mime loss)

[Eragon]

My only problem is if jingle actually is town, then he’s the person I think can win in a MyLo LyLo

But I am very suspicious, as neither mime nor mafia has visited hin

[Eragon]

Do you think mime voted lane?

[Eragon]

VOTE: Jingle

I go against my brain here

Gut don’t lead me wrong

[Eragon]

If this is right, we win


If this is wrong, we might lose, but we have kingmaking powers,so mafia/mime need to be careful

[Eragon]

This is L-2

I am taking any more votes from here as intention to hammer

[Eragon]

This lynch decides the fate of the game one way or another.

WILL TOWN BE CROWNED KING?

OR WILL TOWN CROWN THE KING?

[Eragon]

Find out more, when I wake up tommorow

[Eragon]

Also we can have Thor kill targets we want

For example

@thor

Kill between (Fink/IV) tonight please
I'm leaving this open so you don't insta-confirm your buddy
If one of these doesn't die tonight we will probably lynch you

It's cute that you think you have that level of control over me.
How about I just shoot whoever I think is most likely Mime? I think that sounds good - town is narf to think it's pro-town to lynch me today as I already spelled out in the post some people are claiming wasn't true. I'm willing to bet it was true - just saying.

its cute that you think i couldnt lynch your ass right now if you wont help us

ill even give you the third option of GL

so literally just dont shoot me/aristophanes and your fine

[Eragon]

Also, @mime: at least two members of town have offered to mimeside and kingmaker you in 3p. Outing yourself by blocking Thor isn’t the worst plan ever, especially if you’re a likely nightkill.

I’d only advocate that if mafia breaks their deal

[Eragon]

its cute that you think i couldnt lynch your ass right now if you wont help us

I fully believe you could - but it would be anti-town to do so.

ill even give you the third option of GL

so literally just dont shoot me/aristophanes and your fine

I agree not to shoot you if I'm alive come night.
You can decide to lynch me either now or then - but lynching me before the Mime is dead is signing your own death warrent and basically handing the game to the Mime or Mafia faction so, y'know, whatevs. I can't control who town lynches or doesn't today, all I can say is the likely result of any given action.

Legit just don’t shoot me or Aristophanes,

Everything else is fair game

[Eragon]

I've been convinced this is a bad idea so
UNVOTE:

I would rather nolynch than take a chance today I guess.
What a ride!

Rank the four possible lynches in order of most likely to least likely to be mime.

Thor > Thor > No lynch > Eragon

/s

Legit anyone could be mime rn

[Eragon]

Legit just don’t shoot me or Aristophanes,

Everything else is fair game

Not sure I'm seeing the game quite like you are.
I stand by my previous statement - not gonna shoot you if I'm alive tonight.

Hey thor. Shoot whoever you think is mime because that's how you win this game.

Alternatively, shoot your mafia partner, claim vig and hope that town is super incompetent. Who knows, it might just work.

perfection

fine thor, shoot anyone you want

[Eragon]

Oh goody, I have permission to do what I was going to do regardless

*visible anger noises*

[Eragon]

we take this chance we are given, to do something great.
This lynch decides the fate of the game.
if this flips as mafia, we win, if it flips as mime, then well... good game, if it flips town, we decide the best plan.

what better life is there than one filled with risk?

[Eragon]

Who will get lynched right now?

[Eragon]

shit so it comes down to voting fink or no-lynching?


damnit

[Eragon]

oops nvm

[Eragon]

missed it lmao

[Eragon]

if this flips town im like, 99% confident in maf!jingle

[Eragon]

I hope your right jingle,

I sure as hell hope your right.

[Eragon]

I kinda think this might be a townslip on Jingle's end

BTW, the townslip on Jingle's end is that if I were mafia, Thor would have 100% shot Eragon last night. Whoopsie.

What?

[Eragon]

sorry ya'll I got quite a few essays due in the next day or two so im not really gonna have much time to post until Thursday afternoon onwards.

ill look at things then..

[Eragon]

fucking school.

tommorow is friday.

should have time

[Eragon]

sorry i am here and still behind

so basically from what I see eragon is watcher who caught thor confirmed scum and jingle is vig? is that all I need to know

What is this

[Eragon]

IV doesn’t flip mafia

[Eragon]

GL if you could give a basic list of what you think and why

Not a huge time-consuming ISO shit

Just straight up a sentence or two in everyone except me/Thor and the most notable AI things you see

[Eragon]

Same goes for everyone actually

(Thor is excused :3)

I’m probably gonna sleep then come back tommorow

[Eragon]

So just a general question to the town

How is (Fink/IV/GL/jingle)

Any different from
(Me/Thor/Fink/Jingle/IV/GL)
?

Except for the fact that one has no confirmed town/scum and the other has one of each

What I'm saying here is,
If you lynch Thor
I obviously die tonight
Meaning your put in a scenario with the same people anyways as today
But. You'll have a harder time trying to figure out people you agree with, as 2 of them will always be scum

So I'm thinking that we should NOT lynch thor, maybe even no lynch, and let Thor shoot for the mime again

[Eragon]

if we Lynch today, and hit town, then we lose
IF we Lynch today, and hit mime, we lose, and so does mafia
If we Lynch today, and hit mafia, we win.

we are at 3 v 2 v 1, so we've already basically lost majority

a nolynch provides the least risk, and lets maf have more chance to kill mime
a Lynch is risky, but probably the only way we can win

[Eragon]

when is it gonna be harder to Lynch mafia?

when we have 6 people looking at a PoE of 4 people, with a confirmed town?
or

when we have 4 people, with everyone unsure bout everything

[Eragon]

Honestly I don’t see a scenario here where mafia doesn’t win if we don’t lynch today

[Eragon]

And f we lynch Thor the same thing happens tommorow

Except without the confirmation

[Eragon]

oh.

yikes.

[Eragon]

forgot about this

IMO as I stand rn, we help mafia win if its impossible for town to win, as I feel they played good.
(I would have never guessed thor unless I caught him, and especially if the other mafia is jingle... they were easily the best 2 players)

if theres any way town can win, we need to explore that

[Eragon]

[Eragon]

If we don’t lynch your partner we lose

I think it’s as simple as thay

[Eragon]

VOTE: No-lynch

[Eragon]

VOTE: No-lynch

I think that's a smart play for town, even if it's still derp risky.

If you had the ability to control the scum shot - who would you shoot as your top Mime suspect?

well

i dont see GL as ever being mafia, and i dont

think

they are scum

IV is just a ??? player, so they could really be ANYTHING

Fink probably would have tried to get lynched yesteday as mime id assume, so he is probably mafia.
although i guess he did self-vote in LyLo?

Jingle couldn't have expected to be lynched this game, more likely to be NK'd, so thats not mime.

its between Fink/IV IMO

[Eragon]

im sad too ;_;

even though i didnt really play a good "reads-game" and activity-wise i was bad, i was kinda just trying to flow under the radar until i found a guilty.

thAt guilty just came slightly too late to truly help :/

also, lynching mime D1 really screwed people's WIM

[Eragon]

lol.

if only i didnt watch jingle for the first 2 nights ;_;

[Eragon]

im sad too ;_;

even though i didnt really play a good "reads-game" and activity-wise i was bad, i was kinda just trying to flow under the radar until i found a guilty.

thAt guilty just came slightly too late to truly help :/

also, lynching mime D1 really screwed people's WIM

/oog

FMPOV your slips in gameplay this game were missing the PR soft target N1 and not townreading me (Which, admittedly, I might be biased about). Literally everything else you've done this game was fine playwise, and I had a worse fuckup on D2 than you did N1, so you really shouldn't feel bad about that assuming you mean what you said about me and Thor playing the best game.

I think that objectively Lane played the best out of everyone this game, and I kind of feel bad for the guy to have played so well and had the game win stolen from him. If I could posthumously add any player to the winning team it would be him, regardless of which team wins.

That’s the thing.

Going PURLEY from play, you would be my strongest townread

But the fact that
1. No one visited you N1/N2, and you still haven’t died even though you are probably the best/second best player in this game is awkward IMO

[Eragon]

yes,

the problem is having the mime willing to lynch someone at this stage

[Eragon]

but we arent lynching for thor today, other wise im dead tonight and there will be no consensus easy tommorow or shot of mafia hitting mime/wolfy town tonight

[Eragon]

At least I’m done with this game

@mafia if you leave me alive I kingmake you over mime every time

[Eragon]

I’m going to hammer in about 1 hour and 19 minutes

[Eragon]

VOTE: Thor

[Eragon]

I don’t think there is a way to win for town right?

[Eragon]

So there is a chance for town to win/draw if we lynch Thor?

[Eragon]

Seriously, vote Thor. Not voting Thor is a mafia claim.

*votes no-lynch*

[Eragon]

nah

I watched thor.

nein visit

[Eragon]

I think we can safely say here GL is scum.

that other one remains in (IV, Jingle)

if jingle is scum, and there won't be a draw, give him the kingmaker win

if IV is scum, give GL the kingmaker win

if there is a chance, please everyone take the draw

[Eragon]

I'm like 90% certain that it's GL Mime and IV Mafia. I can't see Thor not shooting IV before now if he's the mime.

Also, Eragon, you should totally agree to holster your shot tonight if the mafia shoot for the mime. It's the only way either mafia or town has a chance at outright winning after lynching Thor.

Also, GL should vote Thor.

My shot

0.0

[Eragon]

VOTE: Thor

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...t

[Eragon]

Also I will agree to not watch anyone if mafia doesn’t kill me

[Eragon]

I will watch MHA

I can't promise to not watch that

[Eragon]

Yay?