Open 735: Watchmen Wanted - Game Over!

[Ausuka]

hi

VOTE: Irrelephant11

[Ausuka]

I don't really have scumreads and idk what to say

Irre why is Sesq scum?

[Ausuka]

Spoiler: northsidegal

I guess I'm about null here? Like, there's scumhunting in her ISO, but I guess something feels off about it. It's like she's pursuing GNB but she never really, like, follows up past pressing on one specific point and then doing the same thing to Irrelephant? Maybe this is just like playstyle and I'm reading too much into it but I feel like town having a seemingly fairly strong scumread there is likely to, like, try and drive a wagon early there and see how people react to that?

Spoiler: Sesq

their posts are a rollercoaster ride to the point where if they flipped red I'd be actually impressed with the acting. also I don't really see the scum motivation exactly for saying "oh i tr you nope jk i scumread you"- it's so convoluted that I think the simplest explanation is that they're just town tbh.

Spoiler: 2 718281828459 (replaced Saudade)

First thought is that I like 91 - Considering his tone here I think 2.718 is unlikely to approach the game this way as scum? Like, I guess I get the feeling he approaches this game in a fairly logical manner and that it wouldn't really appeal to him so much to fake gut reads as scum in the stead of logical reads which I think get townread more. It also seems towny that he goes back and tries to justify and elaborate on his read - if scum are going to bother faking a gutread I'm not sure they bother since the word "gut" tends to make people value what you're saying a lot less.

He seems somewhat like town with legitimate conviction in 101; he isn't, like, overly waffly, and I think his approach to Keyser where he builds up his conviction is towny and genuine. It starts as a gutread and he finds evidence that his read is correct and then pushes it. I feel reasonably confident that 2.718 is town.

Spoiler: Keyser Söze

looks to be genuinely scumhunting? I guess I could see how he's being defensive but I don't think it's scummy to be defensive tbh. Also I kinda get where he's coming from w/ Reundo. I think he's wrong about 2.718 but like when somebody comes into the thread like that with a case you don't understand at all it's understandable that you would vote for that person.

Spoiler: volxen

not an incredible lot to say - his contributions are kind of active lurking-ish?

Spoiler: GameNBurger

I don't feel qualified to judge his mathy plan because I don't really understand a word of it I guess I kinda like his "don't townread me for mathing" thing; I agree with this- I think scum very much like to hide behind mechanics generally- and it makes sense that if something annoys him he wouldn't want it in the game, even if it's helpful to him personally.

Spoiler: Irrelephant11

I think I kinda understand where his tr on nsg is coming from in that she was being gamesolvy? In general I find his posts as, uh, "adequate" more than anything else. I don't exactly scumread his approach but it's also not that towny and I don't get why he's fixated on Dunnstral specifically; what thoughts are people supposed to have about Dunnstral considering he's only made one mechanic-related post back in RVS?

Spoiler: Reundo

I kinda dislike his entrance. Like, with Sesq and Keyser, I can see both sides - I don't think keyser's opening was LAMIST but I can totally see how somebody could see it that way. I almost feel like he's trying to push Keyser? but holding back for some reason. I don't see how it's really supposed to be scum-indicative for someone to dislike their posts being portrayed as lamist. The whole scum daychat thing appears to be kinda irrelevant? Like, I don't see the argument that Keyser as scum for some reason uses scum daychat as an example of something NAI whereas town!Keyser acknowledges it's NAI and moves on. What could the scum motivation ever be for lying in such an insignificant way? I also don't get why it's scummy to say "this is NAI" when someone pushes you for things you think are NAI. I also don't see how it's scum motivated to stop talking about his sr on Sesq as scum; I don't think scum would really mind repeating the same thing over and over at all? And why does scum!keyser pretend to forget about hypoclaiming? Like I might just be being stupid but I don't understand this at all.

@gamenburger: you mentioned keyser was being a bit stiff about sesq. can you like elaborate on if that actually makes you scumread him?

@volxen: why do you think scum!GNB argues that people will tr him for mechanics when he doesn't actually believe that?

[Ausuka]

Disagree with Ausuka about VOTE: 2.178, who seems maybe overeager to justify eir own actions? on re-read

Ausuka you asked "what thoughts are people supposed to have about Dunnstral considering he's only made one mechanic-related post back in RVS?"
This is my question exactly. What does Dunnstral want us to think about him making only one mechanic-related post? Does he want us to just forget about him? Why avoid RVS if he felt RVS wasn't over? Why say so little if he thought RVS was over? Out of those with little to no content, his slot was and is most interesting to me (like 2% interesting, compared to other slots' 0%), which is why I brought him up.

can you elaborate about 2.718? what's odd about eir justification of eir actions?

Couldn't you say these things about most low-content posters though? Like, it's not uncommon to give little content, it's kinda impossible to judge if he wants to be forgotten about at that time, people saying little outside of RVS isn't like new? I guess it just seems like a kinda weird thing to bring up at such an early point.

Spoiler: 2 718281828459 (replaced Saudade)

First thought is that I like 91 - Considering his tone here I think 2.718 is unlikely to approach the game this way as scum? Like, I guess I get the feeling he approaches this game in a fairly logical manner and that it wouldn't really appeal to him so much to fake gut reads as scum in the stead of logical reads which I think get townread more. It also seems towny that he goes back and tries to justify and elaborate on his read - if scum are going to bother faking a gutread I'm not sure they bother since the word "gut" tends to make people value what you're saying a lot less.

He seems somewhat like town with legitimate conviction in 101; he isn't, like, overly waffly, and I think his approach to Keyser where he builds up his conviction is towny and genuine. It starts as a gutread and he finds evidence that his read is correct and then pushes it. I feel reasonably confident that 2.718 is town.

I must put my hand up and admit the development of his scum read does look town-iesh But I cannot get past him saying "Why is Keyser wanting to limit the forbidden topic to page 1?" as if that was scum alignment indicative. I'm not convinced 2.718 is town yet. I'd like him to explain what he meant when he presented this narrative about me being scum-in-panic-mode...?

I mean, sometimes people disagree on what's AI, I don't think that makes 2.718 scum.

- town can call their own posts non-alignment indicative when accused of being scummy.
- both town and scum can ask if there is day chat.
- a town player can show concern if they think going down an avenue will be unproductive.
- a town player can be very concerned about being put in "bad light" for unjust causes.
- a town player can stubbornly push to try to change the subject if they think it won't help find scum.
- townies can make dumb mistakes and provide incorrect examples.
- town can "attack" the player attacking them.

Yes, of course town can do all of the above, but my point was that I thought your posts would favor scum!you more than town!you. Like for the first point, it would be more productive from a town POV imo to explain your reasoning behind your post and let Sesq decide for themselves whether or not it was scum indicative instead of straight up telling them they "shouldn't see it as an attempt to look townie" and that it's "non-alignment indicative", and it seemed to me like you were being more defensive than the situation called for. Of course you could be defensive as town, but being defensive naturally has more benefits for scum who lose a lot more than town by being suspected -> voted -> lynched, and when it was combined with something I saw as anti-town (calling your own post "non-alignment indicative" read to me like you were trying to force a certain interpretation of your post instead of leaving it open to discussion) I was inclined to read it as a scum defense. I could probably do the same with a lot of the other points you listed, but I don't think it would be worth it. Honestly, my scum-read of you has been waning steadily, and I think a lot of your later posts do read as genuine scum-hunting (the slight backpeddling of your 2.17 read especially caught me off-guard), but you have to understand that not everyone's going to view you as town and that it's not entirely implausible for me to see your actions coming from scum. If you think I'm "arguing over fluff" then so be it, but all you've said to dispute that is saying that your actions can come from town, which wasn't my point at all and doesn't dispute the fact that your actions could come from scum as well, so if you are town then do a better job of proving me wrong.


Now, for a quick snap-shot read of everyone else...

Irrelephant11 - Decently engaged with the game. His questions and scum-hunting seem pretty fine as a whole, and there's nothing that juts out too much. He seems a little reluctant to scum-read people, and even his vote on Sesq didn't seem that committal. He only voted them to move to something more interesting (?) and then moved onto 2.178 in the next post without much indication why. I'm not so sure it's really scum-motivated though, so he's kind of lean town for me.

Ausuka - Hasn't really done too much so far, but her reads list is pretty solid. I got around the same impression from Sasq as she did, and I really liked her read on northsidegal too. Her read on me seems a bit rambling and is not too coherent tbh, but I guess I get where she's coming from. Probably a lean town once she posts some more.

2.187 - His vote on Keyser seems a bit forced as he doesn't really back it up all that much. His follow up post is meh. I liked his pseudo-town-read of me because it was kind of unconventional, though it does line up neatly with his Keyser vote. It also didn't read as obvious buddying since he admitted my post was a "little annoying". Null lean scum.

Sesq - They seemed a bit too eager to back off of Keyser from the first line of #80, but they wouldn't have really be motivated to do that as scum. But then in the next line they say that keyser is "detached" from the game, but also not in a scum way, yet they aren't really swayed and they keep their vote (???). I don't understand their game plan from either alignment to be honest, and I'm not sure how much of this is actually AI or just their playstyle. Null all around.

volxen - His post-RVS introduction was pretty pointless and actually did nothing to add to the discussion. I get I might be kind of a hypocrite since similar things have been said about my introduction, but it seems even more exaggerated in that the distance between the post he was responding to and his actual post number were literally pages apart and that all he said was basically just paraphrasing what northsidegal said. A lean scum for me.

GameNBurger - Started off with a bunch of game theory talk that didn't lead anywhere, then pleading to people not to town-read him for him, which ironically enough made me town-read him for it a little initially. Honestly, I'm not getting too much of an impression from his posts, like nothing really just juts out as towny or that impressive. Pretty null.

Dunnstral - Not having a strong impression on me. I have no idea why he's voting Sesq. Null.

northsidegal - I think she has a lot of interesting perspectives on things. I liked how she pointed out that GameNBurger could've held onto his "don't townread me" comment to see if anyone would town-read him for it first, but then again I don't think this would really glean anything AI since it wouldn't have been obvious as town to make that decision -- seemed like more of a "good play vs. bad play" sort of statement. It's sort of the same thing with her later posts on Irrelephant, though she did admit it probably doesn't matter much in the end. She offers solid advice overall, which does help town in a sense, but I'm clueless in terms of where she leans on basically everyone. Null.

Poseidon - Close to nothing from him. Null.

Kop - Literally nothing from him. Also null.


So basically in a condensed form the players I'm most comfortable considering as town for the moment are {Irrelephant11, Ausuka} and as scum are {2.187, volxen}.

I'm not sure why you're focusing on Keyser so much when he's about null to you? And how is 2.718's post forced just because it didn't have much reasoning behind it? Like Dunnstral gave no reasoning at all and he's null to you.

also i'm kind of naturally rambly sorry

[Ausuka]

Ausuka, is your vote on Irrelephant11 RVS/now serious?

ugh thanks for reminding me I totally forgot to change that.

VOTE: reundo

[Ausuka]

reundo's probably just Out To Lunch

what does this mean? sorry if it's like obvious and i'm missing something but I honestly have no idea.

@Ausuka he just feels overeager to provide reasoning for his votes. At this early stage, as NSG pointed out, there’s a lot more for town to gain by keeping things close to the chest at times. 2718 seems like he’s the one that wants towncred (as opposed to the townsite reason for oversharing - to actually help others sort)
Really scraping the bottom of the barrel for reads here, though, I admit

VOTE: reundo

can you elaborate on why 2.718's posts look like they're grabbing for towncred if you can? also why did you vote Reundo?

[Ausuka]

idk what to say rn :/

[Ausuka]

i'm awful at finding scum but i'll try.

why did you vote reundo? your only other mention of him seemed far more sympathetic to him.

[Ausuka]

I think the inactive gamestate makes it fairly hard to evaluate alignment based on the gamestate. Like, you could infer from this wagon situation that scum are comfortable, but it's possible it's like, Kop/GNB/Reundo or something stupid like that and inactivity makes it hard to actively push scum wincon.

I think it would be hard to PoE a lynchpool in this game? I'm not swarming with townreads myself.

Why are you townreading me so much?

[Ausuka]

meh, not quite the answer I was looking for but ok

who do you think we could poe out? like i'm looking at this list

northsidegal
Sesq
2 718281828459 (replaced Saudade)
Ausuka
Toranaga (replaced Poseidon)
Kop
Keyser Söze
volxen
GameNBurger
Irrelephant11
Dunnstral
Reundo

and not a lot of names stand out to me as town. keyser, maybe you? i would say 2.718 but people disagree with me, maybe sesq but that's weak? i'm not having an easy time reading a lot of players here.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: volxen

[Ausuka]

Hi duckling.

VOTE: sesq

Probably a decent vote tbh my tr on them kind of feels like it was probably an inaccurate shitread.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: volxen

Hi duckling.

VOTE: sesq

Probably a decent vote tbh my tr on them kind of feels like it was probably an inaccurate shitread.

Joining around 4th/5th on both wagons without any explanation

nothing is really happening in this game and I like wagons. also they're both fairly scummy so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Ausuka]

ok if I assume my townreads are correct which might not be the case but I'll hope it is for now;

Sesq
Toranaga (replaced Poseidon)
Kop
volxen
Dunnstral
Reundo

scum are in here.

Sesq feels kinda meh, I've used the reasoning I was tring them for earlier on mafia in the past so that's probably just wrong and bad and the 180 on keyser in the same post feels kinda like acting than a real thought? And now they feel gut scummy. It's kinda hard to read them though because they're always fairly cryptic.

I have like literally no feelings about Toranga tbh.

Kop is meh. I dislike 226 because it's incredibly shallow - I think town!kop is likely to realize that if I'm literally doing scumhunting in that same post I'm not going to be making excuses for not scumhunting

volxen- uhhh idk? his focus on GNB is kinda weird if he's nullreading him. 237 is kinda weird? Like, Keyser is a pretty obvious townread to put there, and 2718 is an easy scumread, and then you have GNB who he's been talking about, and then nsg is kinda arbritrarily in there as a nullread and everyone else is completely missing?

Dunnstral- don't really get why he objects so much to the idea that someone sounding completely different is scummy? i get why he thinks my votes are opportunistic i think.

Reundo- less obvtown than i'd expect from somebody who got called less lynchable than ghandi in his towngame inclined to put this as townier than other people here because i kinda feel the volxen push.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: volxen
i heard this is the new cool wagon to be on.

[Ausuka]

this is like 75% scum I think but do we risk it :/

[Ausuka]

lololol

Well, let's try to get another lynch through?

Watcher can counterclaim tomorrow so they don't die tonight if this is a fake claim

But if watcher is lynched today don't we have a backup inherit before tonight?

[Ausuka]

Or do we kill volxen on the assumption that he's lying and if he's watcher he'll be replaced by the time night phase starts?

Is that how that works?

>.>

[Ausuka]

tbh if he's town idgaf

pedit: this snowman gets it

I thought that was an oshawott x.x

[Ausuka]

gn duckling

[Ausuka]

VOTE: the worst

why?

[Ausuka]

I don't understand how that's really indicative of TW scum? As I understand it that was just volxen putting his GNB read into his readslist because he'd already talked about it and he didn't have to make up any other read? If anything wouldn't nsg's inclusion be odder?

[Ausuka]

I don't think volxen would cram both of his scumbuddies in there for no reason, I don't think GNB was in there for no reason, and honestly I think you might be getting carried away with this idea?

I don't think it's impossible for TW to say that as town at all? He could just be acting confident. Honestly I kind of townread duckling's approach to volxen d1.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Ausuka]

[quote="In post 603, Dunnstral"]My case on Ausuka is that he voted Volxen then switched over to Sesq when that became a thing then switched back to volxen when that was happening/quote]
this is true, yes, i was hopping between wagons that I was perfectly okay with. (also i'm a she)

As for tw and tor, I hope there's no expectation for me to respond to a cryptic push where I have no idea what the case is actually supposed to be.

[Ausuka]

My case on Ausuka is that he voted Volxen then switched over to Sesq when that became a thing then switched back to volxen when that was happening

this is true, yes, i was hopping between wagons that I was perfectly okay with. (also i'm a she)

As for tw and tor, I hope there's no expectation for me to respond to a cryptic push where I have no idea what the case is actually supposed to be.

i can't bbcode yay

[Ausuka]

northsidegal
Nauci
Ausuka
Toranaga
Eragon
Keyser Söze
the worst
Irrelephant11
Dunnstral
Reundo

this is my starting point for today.

{Keyser, nsg} are less scummy than the others I think. w/ {Tor, tw} I might be biased but like Tor seems to be divining his reads from ouija board VCA and tw has some mysterious scummy tell that for some reason he only picked up after a wagon pooped up on me. Eragon slot has been pretty underwhelming and Dunn has been scummy.

[Ausuka]

I would love more info on how you decided to cross names out

me is obvious

you seem town and interested in gamesolving.

reundo's push to lynch volxen d1 over sesq was town-motivated and I think he's really scumhunting now too.

sesq slot probably isn't scum anymore? like i feel like unless there was bus-heaviness which we'll find out later, scum were just content with the Sesq lynch. i also don't think scum Nauci comes into the game as scum pushing for tw and nsg clears?

[Ausuka]

Not gonna invest much time defending myself since I'm not enjoying this game at all. Tor doesn't do this as town, take up his offer and lynch him day 3. Make tw out his tell today, lynch him d4 if it's horrible, otherwise go Dunn I think.

[Ausuka]

Keyser please don't just tr tor because he's confident, Mafia fake confidence. As it is his confidence is just unwarranted and he needs rope.

[Ausuka]

tell me what you think about Ausuka's reads and contribution in particular, something is pinging me really really badly and I'm curious if you see it as town/scum!Ausuka

[Ausuka]

was I supposed to? if so I missed that sorry.

[Ausuka]

Ok? You still need to talk about what it is you see there.

[Ausuka]

lol

[Ausuka]

hi, is anyone around?

[Ausuka]

okay I guess I just don't deserve interaction.

[Ausuka]

so I'll do this alone and then it'll be totally pointless and you guys can lynch me and I can quit mafia.

I feel like Toranga is flagrantly howling and the worst is scum because he should know better than to a) scumread me here and b) to townread Toranga here. Like I get if you don't agree after reflection I guess but I feel like there are glaring issues with Tor's play that he is totally overlooking. He's also being evasive and it's very strange how he suddenly got a ping from me after I got a wagon. Dunnstral might just be town by reverse poe tbh.

VOTE: Toranga

pedit: oh hi Irrelephant.

Yeah it's totally backwards that people are scumreading me for having a PoE and jumping between the biggest wagon I was okay with but whatever.

[Ausuka]

I'm gonna do some titus™ vca

Votecount 1.08

volxen (4) - Reundo 220, Irrelephant11 221, Sesq 222, Keyser Söze 224
2 718281828459 (1) - Kop 194
Dunnstral (1) - northsidegal 170
Reundo (1) - Ausuka 142
Sesq (1) - Dunnstral 117
[GameNBurger] (1) - volxen 14

Not voting: [GameNBurger], Toranaga 110, 2 718281828459 151

The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).

what a beautiful vc. this wagon feels pure. I didn't read irrelephant or reundo to any depth but the posts keyzer soze mentioned are a great look for reundo who seemed to be onto volxen from the very beginning and for all the correct reasons why he was a wolf (the superficial highly descriptive posting that never really went anywhere). keyser is very towny and I think sesq is town for a lot of added up thin reads on both players in that slot.

alright good start.

Votecount 1.09

volxen (5) - Reundo 220, Irrelephant11 221, Sesq 222, Keyser Söze 224, Ausuka 239
2 718281828459 (2) - Kop 194, volxen 237
Dunnstral (1) - northsidegal 170
Sesq (1) - Dunnstral 117

Not voting: [GameNBurger], Toranaga 110, 2 718281828459 151

The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).

Mod notes

- If anyone else would like to try finding a replacement for GameNBurger's slot, I'd really appreciate it.

dunn has a point in ausuka's very late entrance onto this wagon. I also dislike some of her posts. NSG, dunn, myself are not on any wagons and all look bad. I think <ausuka, NSG, dunnstrall> is a good lynchpool rn looking at this. since I made the 3rd or 4th vote later on volxen when sesq was a runaway wagon, I think VCA actually points to me being town as well

Votecount 1.11

Sesq (4) - Dunnstral 117, northsidegal 307, the worst 308, volxen 330
volxen (4) - Reundo 220, Sesq 222, Keyser Söze 224, Ausuka 239
Toranaga (1) - Irrelephant 255
[2 718281828459] (1) - Kop 194

Not voting: Toranaga 110, [2 718281828459] 151

The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).

Mod notes

- Ausuka has been prodded. She has (expired on 2018-09-02 10:23:45) to post before I start searching for her replacement.
- @northsidegal: After deliberation, I have decided to stick to my original deadline extension of pausing at 48 hours until the last replacement is filled (if necessary).

this points heavily to the scum team being NSG and ausuka

is that how it's done, titus? did I learn from the master well?

Like honestly this is just blatantly a mockery of Titus' VCA from someone who doesn't agree with her about VCA. Like, who actually writes "did I learn from the master well?" He's trying to make a point about VCA I think but it totally doesn't work. I also think Tor and tw's scumteam harmony comes from two scumbuddies more than everything else; I can't believe Tor is town tbh and like I said tw knows better than his play this game.

pedit: bye

[Ausuka]

I'll let someone else do it cause it's a lot of long complicated posting that'd require too much from me lol

I just dropped by to say ausuka has literally dropped the 3 names pushing her the hardest as her top scumreads

it's OMGUSing so hard that it's probably the first time I use the term seriously

This is also horrible, and ignores the fact that a) I was scumreading Dunnstral from before he voted me and b) town are naturally inclined to suspect people pushing them. Like in this case scum are legitimately on my wagon because the push on me is awful but even if they're not any townie is often inclined to say people pushing them is town. Honestly I think Toranga is far too experienced to not know this.

[Ausuka]

Keyser just likes sheeping confident people I guess. Still think he's town.

Reundo's last post was very awful btw but on the weigh of things still think he's town he's just a candidate for Tor buddy if tw isn't it.

Like as scum we have volxen + Toranga

and then for third we have

1. the worst
2. Dunnstral/Reundo
3. Eragon

Willing to clear all of {nsg, Nauci, Keyser, Irrele} and with me that's 5/10 players alive as townreads. That's not exactly ideal and I'd prefer to have more, and I'm being hasty with clearing nsg probably? but idk how I can clear anyone else.

[Ausuka]

Actually I think I'm just being over-paranoid and it's as simple as tw!scum. Like, he should 100% know that I don't make that wall as scum and he's being wildly evasive with this tell, like he was being evasive about his modifier in Project Pinecone. I think he's just scum here.

ftr if anyone wants recent scum meta from me look here viewtopic.php?f=83&t=77066 although I don't expect any amount of reasoning will save me so...

[Ausuka]

also maybe don't lynch inside volxen's wagon if you can avoid it today thx

game is easy bros. just don't do hero reads like me and TW this gameday and lynch inside an actual smart POE for today. not volxen's voters unless you wanna lynch sesq.

also him doing this and then jumping on me (who was on the volxen wagon) is really :thinking:

this is the benefit of a bus in and of itself btw, consider the following;

this is actually a 12p game, we have two mislynches and that's it. from bussing you get a huge pile of towncred, which you then use on things like ^ this, which burns through town mislynches very fast. I can also imagine Tor would absolutely love the idea of getting mass towncred and sweeping with the worst as his buddy. as far as I'm aware this is the only example of someone trying to use the fact they were voting scum to their advantage wrt/ towncred.

[Ausuka]

{Ausuka}
{Irrelephant11, Keyser Soze, Nauci}
{northsidegal}
{Eragon}
{Dunnstral, Reundo}
{the worst}
{Toranga}

this is probably a more coherent way to state my reads

i'm not mulch and i can't really keep monologuing like this so bye.

[Ausuka]

also maybe don't lynch inside volxen's wagon if you can avoid it today thx

game is easy bros. just don't do hero reads like me and TW this gameday and lynch inside an actual smart POE for today. not volxen's voters unless you wanna lynch sesq.

also him doing this and then jumping on me (who was on the volxen wagon) is really :thinking:

this is the benefit of a bus in and of itself btw, consider the following;

this is actually a 12p game, we have two mislynches and that's it. from bussing you get a huge pile of towncred, which you then use on things like ^ this, which burns through town mislynches very fast. I can also imagine Tor would absolutely love the idea of getting mass towncred and sweeping with the worst as his buddy. as far as I'm aware this is the only example of someone trying to use the fact they were voting scum to their advantage wrt/ towncred.

you're not a volxen wagoner, you're the latest entrance to it and you never even gave a reason to

when something else got hot you jumped there

there's nothing to your posting that's earning a townread rn. if you manage to convince town I should be lynched instead that's fine but then you die when I flip town, is that good?

I was very literally on the volxen wagon. you don't have to cram your push into literally everything you say!

yes I would agree to that in a heartbeat and if I get lynched I fully expect you to be lynched d3.

pedit: you can put your eggs in that basket if you want to but when I flip green that rebutal won't be valid. I think dunnstral is town right now actually. Keyser is voting me and I townread him.

also lol that's nice

[Ausuka]

Keyser just likes sheeping confident people I guess. Still think he's town.

My bad, I honestly just wanted the ammunition from your flip to gain clarity with my scum read of Toranaga (if that makes sense). I know this sounds anti-town, but it made sense in my head when I voted you.

But if he's scum can't you like

lynch him

instead of lynching somebody else to prove a point who you apparently don't really scumread

[Ausuka]

i think maybe i townread ausuka too quickly, though i'm not sure (again, entirely from memory).

why say this and how do you read me now?

[Ausuka]

what did you think of Ausuka's vca

did i do vca? i'm like 99% sure i didn't?

[Ausuka]

Spoiler: northsidegal

I guess I'm about null here? Like, there's scumhunting in her ISO, but I guess something feels off about it. It's like she's pursuing GNB but she never really, like, follows up past pressing on one specific point and then doing the same thing to Irrelephant? Maybe this is just like playstyle and I'm reading too much into it but I feel like town having a seemingly fairly strong scumread there is likely to, like, try and drive a wagon early there and see how people react to that?

Spoiler: Sesq

their posts are a rollercoaster ride to the point where if they flipped red I'd be actually impressed with the acting. also I don't really see the scum motivation exactly for saying "oh i tr you nope jk i scumread you"- it's so convoluted that I think the simplest explanation is that they're just town tbh.

Spoiler: 2 718281828459 (replaced Saudade)

First thought is that I like 91 - Considering his tone here I think 2.718 is unlikely to approach the game this way as scum? Like, I guess I get the feeling he approaches this game in a fairly logical manner and that it wouldn't really appeal to him so much to fake gut reads as scum in the stead of logical reads which I think get townread more. It also seems towny that he goes back and tries to justify and elaborate on his read - if scum are going to bother faking a gutread I'm not sure they bother since the word "gut" tends to make people value what you're saying a lot less.

He seems somewhat like town with legitimate conviction in 101; he isn't, like, overly waffly, and I think his approach to Keyser where he builds up his conviction is towny and genuine. It starts as a gutread and he finds evidence that his read is correct and then pushes it. I feel reasonably confident that 2.718 is town.

Spoiler: Keyser Söze

looks to be genuinely scumhunting? I guess I could see how he's being defensive but I don't think it's scummy to be defensive tbh. Also I kinda get where he's coming from w/ Reundo. I think he's wrong about 2.718 but like when somebody comes into the thread like that with a case you don't understand at all it's understandable that you would vote for that person.

Spoiler: volxen

not an incredible lot to say - his contributions are kind of active lurking-ish?

Spoiler: GameNBurger

I don't feel qualified to judge his mathy plan because I don't really understand a word of it I guess I kinda like his "don't townread me for mathing" thing; I agree with this- I think scum very much like to hide behind mechanics generally- and it makes sense that if something annoys him he wouldn't want it in the game, even if it's helpful to him personally.

Spoiler: Irrelephant11

I think I kinda understand where his tr on nsg is coming from in that she was being gamesolvy? In general I find his posts as, uh, "adequate" more than anything else. I don't exactly scumread his approach but it's also not that towny and I don't get why he's fixated on Dunnstral specifically; what thoughts are people supposed to have about Dunnstral considering he's only made one mechanic-related post back in RVS?

Spoiler: Reundo

I kinda dislike his entrance. Like, with Sesq and Keyser, I can see both sides - I don't think keyser's opening was LAMIST but I can totally see how somebody could see it that way. I almost feel like he's trying to push Keyser? but holding back for some reason. I don't see how it's really supposed to be scum-indicative for someone to dislike their posts being portrayed as lamist. The whole scum daychat thing appears to be kinda irrelevant? Like, I don't see the argument that Keyser as scum for some reason uses scum daychat as an example of something NAI whereas town!Keyser acknowledges it's NAI and moves on. What could the scum motivation ever be for lying in such an insignificant way? I also don't get why it's scummy to say "this is NAI" when someone pushes you for things you think are NAI. I also don't see how it's scum motivated to stop talking about his sr on Sesq as scum; I don't think scum would really mind repeating the same thing over and over at all? And why does scum!keyser pretend to forget about hypoclaiming? Like I might just be being stupid but I don't understand this at all.

@gamenburger: you mentioned keyser was being a bit stiff about sesq. can you like elaborate on if that actually makes you scumread him?

@volxen: why do you think scum!GNB argues that people will tr him for mechanics when he doesn't actually believe that?

oh well

this is very hedgy but I do like some of it

I'll have to ISO dunn now

haven't you already read this post if you scumread me? why do you change your mind about it now when you said it was scummy in 699 (you said you'll let someone else case it because it's long complicated posting, implying that it's scummy)

[Ausuka]

duckling why do you townread toranga so much?

[Ausuka]

you read very little and were willing to be lynched if your scumread from when you had read very little was wrong?

[Ausuka]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Reundo

[Ausuka]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Reundo

Talk me though how/why/when Reundo bussed Volxen on D1.
Paint me the narrative for me to believe it.

not voting him because I think his interactions are bussy but i can just make something up as i go along if you want

reundo faked a fos on his partner because this is 2018 and that's what scum do -> reundo got wagoned and starting applying pressure to volxen -> bussing volxen became the core part of his identity itg -> he keeps pushing volxen -> reaps towncred -> watches town destroy itself while chaining lynches

[Ausuka]

i told myself i was going to stop posting content itt because i'm having no fun but i can't stay away because i have a mafia addiction probably. still not really going to bother defending myself, sorry

don't think chainlynching popular suspects is going to get town anywhere. i don't think anything indicates scum are feeling pressure; feels like slots commonly seen as town are mostly sitting back and watching suspects go at it, while not actually committing to townreads on any of the suspected players. like, aside from tw to toranga who really tr's any of {ausuka, dunn, toranga} on a substantial level? because as far as i see it's nothing and scum don't really look uncomfortable.

also Reundo had a towny day 1 yeah but he's like totally been scumming it up d2.

first is his keyser push which is like a possible motive of the huntress kill other than keyser!scum I think? but that's minor, more importantly he just up and forgets about this push because nobody was biting? and like his decision to chainlynch me and toranga doesn't make much sense i think. the voteflopping / "opportunism" thing has literally been done to death and is boring while the "organic" thing makes like very little sense; he can feel free to elaborate on it if he wants but I feel like I didn't detail progression on volxen itt so I don't see how it can really be read as inorganic. the fos on toranga I kind of just don't understand at all. and I don't get how he can literally just push a chainlynch while seemingly not really caring about anything either of us posts; like, he has other SRs, he has 4 FOS's with 2 scum alive, you would think that he would do something other than "let's just chainlynch these two players who were the weakest of my 4 FOSs" tbh.

nsg kind of had some poor associatives w/ volxen I think. nauci is possible scum I guess. eragon's hard to tell because I think he's forcing his reads here as either alignment. still need to consider tor/tw/dunn I guess but again doesn't really feel like mafia are threatened in this gamestate

[Ausuka]

everything I say is from my perspective and my perspective only ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Ausuka]

honestly I'm not very enthusiastic about a Dunnstral lynch anymore and I think it'll flip town tbh. I realize that's not very helpful and nobody wants to lynch Reundo rn so I'll make time to do something more substantial later when nobody is probably going to be around to react to it .

[Ausuka]

I buy the case on nsg tbh. Nauci exactly how sure are you that this is nsg's towngame?

[Ausuka]

{Nauci, Irrelephant, Keyser}
{nsg, (will just trust nauci on this particular read since I'm low on towns anyway) dunnstral}
{Eragon, the worst, Toranga}
{reundo}

about here, i'm probably missing something

[Ausuka]

oh ok then i'll just follow consensus reads. dunnstral and me are the scumteam. game solved yay

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Dunnstral

from here on out just voting whoever I'm supposed to vote.

if anyone sees me signing up for a Mafia game ever again please spam my inbox reminding me not to

[Ausuka]

in before she is the watcher

hi

[Ausuka]

I literally have not read that page for like hours wtf

[Ausuka]

{Nauci, Irrelephant, Keyser}
{nsg, (will just trust nauci on this particular read since I'm low on towns anyway) dunnstral}
{Eragon, the worst, Toranga}
{reundo}

about here, i'm probably missing something

can you explain how you think reundo is your biggest scum?
can you explain how you think TW, Tora, and I are scummy?
can you explain your Keyser and NSG TR's?

Reundo is my SR due to my view on the gamestate (Mafia are comfortable now and this sort of town isn't the kind to ace a game based on today, bussing is therefore likely), Keyser things, and the fact he has a wide lynchpool of popular suspects that he's stating willingness to chainlynch. I am open to other ideas but dunn/Keyser isn't really one of those ideas, sorry. Although it doesn't matter what I think really.

Tor is an old read that just decayed over time, tw gives me bad vibes, you're kind of not readable for the most part and some things you do ping me vaguely. Like why am I suddenly 4th scummiest when you've been tunneling me this whole day?

NSG read explanation is in my readslist. Keyser feels genuine and I don't really get how he's meant to be scummy.

[Ausuka]

hi

[Ausuka]

who is scum?

should I attempt to regain motivation for this game by playing on an alt or should I not bother?

how was your weekend?

[Ausuka]

I don't think Dunn is scum tbh but I also think trying to fight this is kind of a waste of energy.

I was just gonna replace in on an old alt and be spammy tbh.

I had a good weekend, mostly I just relaxed. Today I decided to open up pokemon go and there were lots of rare Pokémon everywhere so that was cool.

[Ausuka]

UNVOTE:

[Ausuka]

I am still scumreading him. Do you think I should be townreading that post?

I haven't decided who I want to wagon yet other than Reundo. Not enthusiastic for a Keyser lynch tbqh.

Tbh I bought the hammer for a while but then I noticed the worst was already voting

[Ausuka]

Votecount 2.22

Dunnstral (5) - northsidegal 786, Ausuka 1078, Irrelephant11 1222, the worst 1282, Toranaga 1299
Ausuka (1) - Reundo 946

Not voting: Dunnstral 915, Keyser Söze 1270, Nauci 1271, Eragon 1295

The deadline for Day 2 is 2:17 pm CT on Thursday, September 20, in (expired on 2018-09-20 15:17:24).

Mod notes

- The worst is V/LA until September 17th.
- Nauci is V/LA until September 18.
- Dunnstral has been prodded. He has (expired on 2018-09-18 08:45:30) to post before I start searching for his replacement.

I don't think Dunn is scum tbh but I also think trying to fight this is kind of a waste of energy.

I was just gonna replace in on an old alt and be spammy tbh.

I had a good weekend, mostly I just relaxed. Today I decided to open up pokemon go and there were lots of rare Pokémon everywhere so that was cool.

I've been raiding tonnes for this legendary birdie event, it's been wicked fun. (been doing so w friends which has been part of my v/la haha) throw me an add if you want --- 1164 6584 8478

first point is also super super related. kinda almost feels like volxen was bussed but it's only really a gamestate soul read :/ like I don't really wanna lynch anyone

I added you! Unfortunately none of my friends play Pokémon Go so I can't do raids and I'm not really strong enough to do much on my own... I've just been doing lvl 1 raids like Bulbasaur and Squirtle

I agree that volxen was bussed. Kinda want to hear what you think about who tho :/ I guess you don't really have many reads. How would you feel about lynching Eragon?

[Ausuka]

... no idea how that VC got there either :/

[Ausuka]

I would be okay with lynching Eragon.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: eragon

[Ausuka]

VOTE: eragon

What is your reasoning for SR’ing me?

your Dunn/Keyser team is really :v and your play just kind of feels slimy. like you clearly went into your case with the intent that Dunnstral should come out looking worse than he did before it and I don't at all get where your high confidence in every read comes from.

also I don't think you've wanted Dunn lynched for the entire day. You wanted me dead p much that entire time.

It's kind of late so sorry if this doesn't make sense, it makes sense in my head.

[Ausuka]

Also, the fact that your talking about MY confidence is ???

Keyser went from hard-defending Dunn with nothing but WIFOM read, and then he suddenly switches to
“If Dunn flips town I’m replacing out”
That’s literally staking his part of the game on dunn’s Flip being red.

If that’s not confidence, then I don’t know what is

I really don't think that was Keyser being confident in his Dunn SR since he doesn't seem to have one?

Also that's still not explaining the confidence? It's still like saying "these players are town, these players are scum" just in a long-winded way. I can infer that you're townreading people for effort and tone?

[Ausuka]

gg! Thanks for modding Flicker! I wonder what happened to volxen and Dunn