Open 735: Watchmen Wanted - Game Over!

[Keyser Söze]

town!Keyser is kind of a sheep in a wolf's clothes

true

[Keyser Söze]

@Dunn - why do you suspect Eragon?

[Keyser Söze]

I need advice from a neutral party:

Does this look like confirmation bias? Or someone suspiciously chaining misslynches / linking a townie-to-scum?

@Irrelphant11 - what does it look like to you?

You are a good person to ask as you scum read me in our last game.

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: Eragon

Probably gonna stay here for the rest of D2.

Dunnstral vs Eragon wagons competing makes most sense in my reads universe. Not going to give any town-scum, scum-scum association theory until we see a flip.

[Keyser Söze]

I think we better wait for Nauci too to chip in (can't remember if she was t/reading Eragon but s/reading Dunnstral).

[Keyser Söze]

scum is in <keyser, dunn, tw, eragon>

[Keyser Söze]

>dunnstral rarely appears in thread
>calls me scum for being detached
>i vote him
>he votes me right away
>???
>huge profit??????

You should have voted him pages ago. Or me.

Again, looking at your recent posts more linking me with Dunnstral:

"when Dunn flips scum im looking back at this."
"This WIFOM-y defense is very buddy-like."
"if anything i see it as SvS or Wkeyser and Tdunn, based on the defending and WK'ing Keyser is doing of an inactive slot thats being lynched."


Why are you repeating yourself?

The association tells don't even make sense anyway you think scum-keyser has been hard-defending scum-Dunn?

[Keyser Söze]

and if you think they're pockety, can you explain which posts and why?

the piggy backing.
the unsupported top town read of nauci in your town core.

[Keyser Söze]

you very well could be hard-defending dunn.

Scum-keyser busses both Volxen and Dunn and sails to easy victory 100 times out of 100.

I wouldn't put myself through all this bullshit.

[Keyser Söze]

also, i just remembered still no one has answered,

what was the general read on Dunn at the end of D1

He wasn't much of a big presence (thus,this would co-relate with no one having a strong read on him).
Nobody trusted him as a pantheon of towniness, neither had a hard scum read on him probably.

[Keyser Söze]

Votecount 1.15

volxen (6) - Reundo 220, Sesq 222, Keyser Söze 224, Toranaga 402, the worst 406, Ausuka 408
Sesq (3) - Dunnstral 117, northsidegal 307, volxen 330
Keyser Söze (1) - Huntress 393
Toranaga (1) - Irrelephant 255
Huntress (1) - Eragon 194

Not voting: N/A

The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).

Who else said DUNN-NSG-VOLXEN are unlikely scum team based on all three sat on Sesq/Nauci slot at EoD?

[Keyser Söze]

tinfoil theory: Eragon is scum and his partner(s) felt the need to welcome him in thread to try to seem like they're not talking in pt

Not a serious theory jsut something to consider I guess

If true, Dunn’s actually had the best game out of everyone

[Keyser Söze]

Literally the only play is to kill volxen.

If we lynch him and he’s watcher, then someone else takes his place and we get their results N1

If we lynch him and he’s scum, GREAT!

If we don’t lynch him and he’s watcher, and he’s town, he dies tonight and we don’t get results for N1

If we don’t lynch him and he’s scum, we’ll then we lynch him tommorow, which is a day later than we should

this lacks nuance

My confirmation bias says it’s a bus post.

Perfect timing to try to get t/cred just as the lynch has all but been delivered.

[Keyser Söze]

@Nauci - where art thou?

[Keyser Söze]

Ok just seen you were in and out of class at school so maybe the ‘scummy pop in’ is purely circumstantial

[Keyser Söze]

I haven't caught up on this thread, but re-revewing Keyser's American Presidents posts, I just feel there's a massive contrast in his POV/attitude/behavior/etc.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=76627&user_select%5B%5D=25845

In American Presidents, he:

• Called out and questioned everything he thought could be conceived as attempts to pocket him, even if in jest
• Spent waaaay more of his posts actively prodding others and sorting
• Had a more carefree attitude even in the posts where he did defend himself
• This one is more biased, but I defended Keyser multiple times in that game because I could clearly see what he was thinking in the times he was accused of being scummy, and felt like I agreed with his reads a ton
• Spent a lot of time just reacting to bits and pieces of the game and writing up reactions to other players' posts in a way that made total sense from the perspective of town trying to figure out the game

This game, I just feel like I saw him be constantly defensive, hyper aware of how others viewed his slot in a way that agitated him, make fewer posts analyzing others, have a lot of reactions and perspectives that felt unnatural to read, and totally didn't comment on the way Volxen defended about him repeatedly and unsubtly, throwing him a town read without much of an explanation for day 1. It felt like he tried to shade the players he would find threatening day 1 like Reundo when there was opportunity/momentum to do so, but once it looked futile he flipped 180 (and something about the way he kept calling him teammate felt so awkward, like intentionally trying to create misleading associations?).

I just can't seem to get rid of this gut feel as I read the game. It's hard to explain some of the reasons I get this gut feeling because I feel like I read players on a more psychological/hard to phrase level (without writing the kinds of essays that I do), but I've always been able to just psychologically jump into the perspectives of some town players so seamlessly that they have to be town. This one feels like the opposite; I just struggle to see why Keyser would react so much to every comment on him, while also dodging responding.

Keyser, why did you feel like you had to wait until I cased you to respond to me, when my catch up posts clearly had tons of instances of comments on your posts that you could have replied to/explained/etc.?

VOTE: Keyser Söze

Nauci, I was waiting for you to look for scum outside of me. Instead of engaging into a one on one before you fully caught up.

FTR: You are investing too much meta analysis into that Presidents game. My town game is not one dimensional. Defensiveness is not alignment indicative. You’ve played with me, but obviously not enough.

[Keyser Söze]

This game is about survival.
And Dunnstral’s supposed scum game isn’t helping him survive.
Scum-Dunnstral gets no benefit out of this or his remaining teammate: even if his partner busses, they’d get no town-cred.
It’s tactical suicide.

I believe scum are in my middle ground reads.

I extremely do not understand your case for town Dunnstral. It's pure WIFOM Dunning-Kruger. Unless you can show me that Dunnstral's scum game is amazing, I don't see extreme-WIFOM as a good reason for the read.

Ok, if I down grade them to null, as they haven’t done anything objectively pro-town:
I would be interested to see their ‘scum’ flip to:

- look at who they have been distancing
- look at which players have been proposing chain lynches via Dunn
- look at who bussed Dunn, as they’ve had the worst scum game this year
- (I’ve been the only one hard defending him, so no need to look at who was opposing his lynch).

[Keyser Söze]

No, you said I ignored all the “content” from the last 5 pages.
What alignment indicative posts / scum cases are you referring to?
You can’t just throw that out there and expect me not to react.
I have been fully engaged in this game thank you.


Do you think Toranaga and Dunnstral are the last two mafia goons?
If so, convince me to return back there.

Toranaga has convinced me 1) he is unlikely mafia and 2) he also convinced me I was a blind idiot for being on Dunnstral’s wagon all of today.

I said I was disappointed with how little you engaged with the content that happened. I thought lots of action had happened with Ausuka and other slots, but your replies were to defend yourself, comment on NSG's joke post instead of her content posts, and a shallow reaction to Dunn's lynchbaity post. Of everything there was to engage with, it was disappointingly shallow.

I believe I caught up with everything that was alignment indicative to me Nauci.

You are still to highlight the posts/scum cases which you feel warranted to discuss, or failed to react to.

I feel I have expressed an opinion on nearly every game-related angle that I think has direct impact on MY reads.

If you think my content has been shallow then that is something I will take note as... (but I think my posts have been influential in defending/attacking players).

[Keyser Söze]

@Eragon - why is your vote not on me?
You have just listed many (bad) reasons why you strongly think I am scum.



Btw, I never said I was "god like" - I'm a below-average mafiascum player with still lots to learn. However, my reads have been on point so far this game. If Dunnstral and tora flip town, I'll feel even better about my developing game

You're below-average, but your reads have been on point?

But you pushed Reundo, my slot (which I know is town, of course), and e, and pushed volxen a little. How do you make that statement with just 2 flips?

I have not been fixed/tunnelled in my reads though (caught in confirm bias)

Yes, I scum read Reundo at one point on D1 but you have failed to see the development of my town read of them.

I feel my revised reads are getting closer to the real picture.

[Keyser Söze]

WTH is WIM

WIM = 'Want It More. Refers to the attribute of extreme passion and desire to win that Keyser Soze possess.'


You would be hard to find WIM permeating Dunnstral's ISO.

[Keyser Söze]

There were a few moments I townread TW but that felt like 30 pages ago

it's not out of character for TW to dance on a scum buddy's grave and he took no part in swinging the momentum on that lynch IMO, so there's not much to rule out tw being scum against me yet again except statistical craziness

If you take out your hard scum read of me from your D2 lynchpool, our reads/or PoE aren't too far apart actually.

How are you reading Eragon currently?

[Keyser Söze]

If Dunnstral flips town/scum does that effect your read on me?

[Keyser Söze]

(@Nauci - in regard my lack of ISO analysis style posts, I’ve been trying to sort players in real time this game instead of digging up ISO’s.)

[Keyser Söze]

I’ll take it as a compliment you are scum reading me.

If Eragon is actually town who is trapped in confirmation bias / suffocating paranoia, so be it.

All my actions (even though innocent and NAI) are being scum read by Eragon and Nauci - but I’m ok with that. I like the content and rationale behind Nauci’s other reads though. If she opposes the Eragon lynch strongly there’s only one way to go and end today:

Dunn’s flip. the ultimate info lynch for D2. If he flips town, I’ll probably need to replace out though.

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: Eragon

Probably gonna stay here for the rest of D2.

Dunnstral vs Eragon wagons competing makes most sense in my reads universe. Not going to give any town-scum, scum-scum association theory until we see a flip.

I may need to go back on my promise.

VOTE: Dunnstral

Sorry mate. I needed more tangible town motivation in your ISO to defend you with. In the end, I’ll have to concede and say WIFOM isn’t going to outweigh the surface level scummy actions in your D1/D2 behaviour. I hope to play again with you, but hopefully it’s in a game that engages/excites you.


Let’s end Day 2.

[Keyser Söze]

Not enough time to rally a keyser wagon

NO ONE HAMMER DUNN I'M IN THE MIDDLE OF MY KEYSER POST

I'll save you time: I'm not scum.

You don't know me.

I know you though.

[Keyser Söze]

Nauci, did you know meta can be manipulated?

I think I won that game because I imitated my town meta. I think the whole scum team survived in fact.

Playstyle is NAI for me. You are completely wrong here.

[Keyser Söze]

It was maybe my best scum game on MS tbf. Great team work.

[Keyser Söze]

Emoticons and formatting are strictly NAI for me.

You need to wake up Nauci, seriously. This is getting pathetic.

[Keyser Söze]

Not enough time to rally a keyser wagon

NO ONE HAMMER DUNN I'M IN THE MIDDLE OF MY KEYSER POST

I'll save you time: I'm not scum.

You don't know me.

I know you though.

I like when you post a condescending gaslighty defensive comment at me right before I was about to point out that scum-you does this

I think this makes things easier

The only person who knows my true scum and town game replaced out (Kop).

Don’t think you know me through these limited games.

This is me helping you, not me trying to survive.

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: Eragon

Probably gonna stay here for the rest of D2.

Dunnstral vs Eragon wagons competing makes most sense in my reads universe. Not going to give any town-scum, scum-scum association theory until we see a flip.

I may need to go back on my promise

VOTE: Dunnstral

Sorry mate. I needed more tangible town motivation in your ISO to defend you with. In the end, I’ll have to concede and say WIFOM isn’t going to outweigh the surface level scummy actions in your D1/D2 behaviour. I hope to play again with you, but hopefully it’s in a game that engages/excites you.


Let’s end Day 2.

So after pages and pages and pages of defending Dunnstral, you're willing to do a total 180 for no reason right after I said I am in the middle of casing you?

Really?

Let's be real: that was not a thought out and cased flip on Dunnstral. That was a black and white obvious switch to Dunnstral because I'm willing to lynch there instead of you and even said so.

I can't even see a universe where town Keyser makes 1496 here, with the threat to replace out.

Guys, this is caught scum and you know it. VOTE: Keyser Söze if he flips green I'll use whatever non-forum-rule-breaking avatar Keyser chooses for the rest of 2018.

PEdit: Keyser you can fake the things you do as town, like evaluate each players' cases one by one and make nuanced observations, but almost no one can change tone and attitude. That'd be a more convincing defense if I didn't see you as town for a long time and see a completely different personality.

Calling me pathetic and telling me to save my time and NOT case you is pro-town... how?

I have allowed you to case me. . But you’re now scraping the barrel talking about emoticons and formatting. You are diseased with confirm bias Nauci.

Me changing my vote to Dunnstral is not scummy. I have tried to put my points across in a clear manner.

I clearly expressed why I was not town reading Eragon.

It shows my frustration at this game. I’m allowed to do a 180, it’s called being humble.

It shows my frustration at you calling my defence of Dunnstral “shallow”.

This game is only interesting for me if Dunnstral flips scum now. Otherwise, I’m out.

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze

I’ll take you up on that avatar bet though

[Keyser Söze]

Not enough time to rally a keyser wagon

NO ONE HAMMER DUNN I'M IN THE MIDDLE OF MY KEYSER POST

I'll save you time: I'm not scum.

You don't know me.

I know you though.

I agree that I shouldn’t have made this post (it’s not pro-town)

It’s childish but it’s exactly what I’m feeling.

[Keyser Söze]

I don't really understand why the volxen wagon died down the way it did. The only town points he got was from northsidegal for being contradictory, and while I can sort of see where northsidegal is coming from it doesn't feel like a particularly strong town-read, and the contradictions run much deeper than mere activity. Looking back on it, post #254 is a lot more petty than I realized. I could see why some of the posts volxen mentioned could be viewed as active lurking, but to not put any more thought into players than "oh, they're active lurking, they're probably scum" is incredibly lazy and narrow-minded. It actually feels like he's afraid of contradicting himself, as if scum-reading someone for doing X means he also has to scum-read everyone who does X, and I'm struggling to see how town can be so close-minded. He gives himself a lot of town points for "having reads and trying to game solve" while completely ignoring that 2.718 made an entire reads list, and the least he could've done was acknowledge that fact and explain why 2.718's reads list was lazy/active-lurking/whatever instead of trying to sweep it under the rug and hope no one notices.

His recent trajectory isn't much better either. 2.718 seemed to be his biggest scum-read, but when northsidegal started town-reading him volxen didn't even bat an eye or seem to care at all really, not even an acknowledgement akin to "well, I guess you have a point on 2.178", and he seemed too eager to hop onto a counter wagon as soon as the opportunity opened up. He also said he was going to update his readslist tomorrow on Friday, and he still hasn't followed up on it. On one hand I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was busier than he intended, and I ended up posting later than I meant to once as well, but part of me feels he's just not bothering anymore because the pressure's been shifted to Sesq instead.

Sesq isn't a terrible lynch, but the way it built up didn't make much sense either. It seemed mostly based on their play here not lining up with their town meta, which sort of makes sense but unless their play here is similar to their scum game it might just be NAI. A lot of players have talked about their lack of motivation in this game, and it's debatable how much of this is genuine or just an excuse but it's wide-spread enough to where I can see Sesq just not being at their A-game this game. Just looking at this game specifically, I'm struggling to see a definite scum agenda to their play. I'm annoyed by their limited scum-reads and coasting behavior, but at the same time they clearly don't care about the impression they give off and they're not super motivated to start a counter-wagon, even going as far as to town-read volxen. It almost feels like they're playing to get lynched in some aspects, which honestly does make some sense as a scum play-style, but I'm kind of iffy on it.

Volxen is still my preferred lynch today. I'm not too opposed to a sesq lynch but I have a lot more reservations about it compared to volxen. Toranga/Dunn are my weakest nulls right now, so I probably won't cry a river over their lynches either, but volxen makes the most sense to me right now tbh.

Btw this is one of those posts that put Reundo firmly into never-lynch territory

Yep, I noted 3 great uppercuts from Reundo on Volxen from D1. #pivotal

Spoiler:

Master Reundo won big town-cred from D1. After his awkward examination of me (once scummy, but now forgiven), Reundo changed up his focus and gave us a tour-de-force in delivering the Volxen lynch. Here are the 3 killer posts:

volxen - His post-RVS introduction was pretty pointless and actually did nothing to add to the discussion. I get I might be kind of a hypocrite since similar things have been said about my introduction, but it seems even more exaggerated in that the distance between the post he was responding to and his actual post number were literally pages apart and that all he said was basically just paraphrasing what northsidegal said. A lean scum for me.

I don't really understand the town-reads of volxen. Everything he's posted seems like surface-level scum-hunting based mostly around points that have already been brought up by others, and as a whole it seems like he's much more interested in garnering why player X scum-reads player Y than providing scum-reads of his own. I'm more worried about him than 2.718 at the moment.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: volxen

I don't really understand why the volxen wagon died down the way it did. The only town points he got was from northsidegal for being contradictory, and while I can sort of see where northsidegal is coming from it doesn't feel like a particularly strong town-read, and the contradictions run much deeper than mere activity. Looking back on it, post #254 is a lot more petty than I realized. I could see why some of the posts volxen mentioned could be viewed as active lurking, but to not put any more thought into players than "oh, they're active lurking, they're probably scum" is incredibly lazy and narrow-minded. It actually feels like he's afraid of contradicting himself, as if scum-reading someone for doing X means he also has to scum-read everyone who does X, and I'm struggling to see how town can be so close-minded. He gives himself a lot of town points for "having reads and trying to game solve" while completely ignoring that 2.718 made an entire reads list, and the least he could've done was acknowledge that fact and explain why 2.718's reads list was lazy/active-lurking/whatever instead of trying to sweep it under the rug and hope no one notices.

His recent trajectory isn't much better either. 2.718 seemed to be his biggest scum-read, but when northsidegal started town-reading him volxen didn't even bat an eye or seem to care at all really, not even an acknowledgement akin to "well, I guess you have a point on 2.178", and he seemed too eager to hop onto a counter wagon as soon as the opportunity opened up. He also said he was going to update his readslist tomorrow on Friday, and he still hasn't followed up on it. On one hand I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was busier than he intended, and I ended up posting later than I meant to once as well, but part of me feels he's just not bothering anymore because the pressure's been shifted to Sesq instead.

Sesq isn't a terrible lynch, but the way it built up didn't make much sense either. It seemed mostly based on their play here not lining up with their town meta, which sort of makes sense but unless their play here is similar to their scum game it might just be NAI. A lot of players have talked about their lack of motivation in this game, and it's debatable how much of this is genuine or just an excuse but it's wide-spread enough to where I can see Sesq just not being at their A-game this game. Just looking at this game specifically, I'm struggling to see a definite scum agenda to their play. I'm annoyed by their limited scum-reads and coasting behavior, but at the same time they clearly don't care about the impression they give off and they're not super motivated to start a counter-wagon, even going as far as to town-read volxen. It almost feels like they're playing to get lynched in some aspects, which honestly does make some sense as a scum play-style, but I'm kind of iffy on it.

Volxen is still my preferred lynch today. I'm not too opposed to a sesq lynch but I have a lot more reservations about it compared to volxen. Toranga/Dunn are my weakest nulls right now, so I probably won't cry a river over their lynches either, but volxen makes the most sense to me right now tbh.

Yes, yes, scum partners bus, but at the time of reading these posts I did begin to see Reundo as a teammate who was sharing similar thoughts and suspicions as myself. He chose to oppose the Sesq wagon while it was selling like hot cakes (like myself) and hold the course with the more difficult Volxen wagon.

These three posts should at least give him safe passage into D3.


If Reundo is town, they possess impressive reading skills.

[Keyser Söze]

I have allowed you to case me. . But you’re now scraping the barrel talking about emoticons and formatting. You are diseased with confirm bias Nauci.

That was a super minor side note in my overall case. If you want to refute it, you'll have to link me town games where over half of your posts were defensive to the point of manipulation.

Defensiveness is not scummy.
I may write a book on this, after this game.


[I will reply to all your points before the day finishes though in ONE post (as a bookmark you can refer to for this game and all future games).]

For now, I'm interested to hear your thoughts on Dunn/TW/Eragon (not me).

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze

- "scum-making-town-sounding-posts POV" - those early questions I asked were NAI, both town and scum can quite easily ask those game mechanic questions. No town points, no scum points should be awarded.

- "The lurker question is a classic topic to look productive without being necessarily productive" - I wanted us to discuss those games on the first couple pages only, before we broke into serious scum hunting mode.

- "Keyser’s 42 seems very paranoid". I usually associate healthy paranoia as town.

- "non-cohesive mindset" - during early game when I am forming early D1 reads this is to be expected. I will never force out reads.

- "so defensive" - both town and scum can be defensive.

- "need to check if town Keyser sheeps like this" - I have the town humility to sheep, yes, and admit when I am wrong.

- "Like Keyser was unbelievably careful to not interact with Volxen while Volxen was non stop chain sawing" - Volxen was defending me while the rest of the playerslist scum read me because he knew I was town. It was the sole town read they expressed and built their attacks around it. I voted Volxen because I did not trust him. His ISO was full of bad distancing.

- "Giving himself credit for not moving off wagon day 2 was just open wolfing" - no it's fact. I opposed the sesq counter wagon. I think my perception of D1 was accurate in regard wagon dynamics.

- "confidently assigning motivations to volxen’s posts" - it is called post-flip analysis (NAI)

-"keyser why does that “townie who towned in Townville” bit sound so… condescending?" - my phrase is NAI. It is not scummy.

-"it's really bizarre for you to say "D2, your slot."" - NAI. It's only a description.

-"massive contrast in his POV/attitude/behavior/" - attitude is NAI. In regard POV and behaviour: you have a limited experience with my town/scum meta.

- "constantly defensive" - when someone attacks me for poor reasons I will defend myself.

- "hyper aware of how others viewed his slot in a way that agitated him" - townies can be frustrated/agitated too.

- "make fewer posts analyzing others" - I think I have provided satisfactory analysis this game, defended my town reads and voted my scum reads accordingly.

- "it was disappointingly shallow" - town players can make "shallow" analysis, but it can still be proven right. Scum are more likely to create arguments that town would more easily sheep and be manipulated to follow.

- "Keyser misrepresenting my comment to him" - not misrepped. My point still stands. Point to me the scum case/ alignment indicative posts that I have failed to react to. I have aimed to talk about everyone in this game.

- "I really can't see why town Keyser would demand that I convince him to return to Toranga/Dunnstral" - because they began D2 as my PoE scum reads.

-"it'd be really awkward if he switched to sesq without really really good grounds" - I did not support the Sesq wagon and tried to convince Irrelephant not to join it either.

-"makes LAMIST posts as scum" - I get accused of being LAMIST as town a lot too.

- "There's SO much self meta in Scum Keyser games" - both as town and scum. It's my last resort defence if logic isn't working.

- "Not to mention all the defensive or LAMIST posts almost to the point of gaslighting and misrepping" - these are staplemarks of town-Keyser too, but my reads are usually on point.

- "every other post is defensive." - defensive IS NOT PURELY SCUMMY for me or for a lot of players. If I see shit, I will call it out. It's simple work for town-keyser, and simple work for scum-keyser.

- "Oh and being suspicious of anyone who scumreads him even a little" - OMGUS is natural. It's the development of the read which is more alignment indicative for me.

-"do you always quote other people's scum cases of you as scum in attempts to undermine them" - it's an NAI tactic. I do want to create focus on the reasons though, regardless of alignment. If it's a bad scum-case, I'm gonna challenge it.

-"use the term "teammate"" - I call my town teammates as teammates. This is NOT me referring to my scum teammates. Same word, different usage.

- "beautiful scum game that's totally counter to site meta" - TW called me a sheep in wolves clothing, which made me laugh, but does describe my town meta quite beautifully. Again, just because I don't fit into the mafiascum profile of what town should be/should look like doesn't mean I'm scum.

- "Spends tons of time being defensive" - yep, I love correcting what I believe is unfair/lies.

- "OMGUS votes a lot" - I love real time one vs one combat. It helps me sort players. again, don't focus on the vote, but the nature/development of my read of the player I voted.

- "shades people with extremely skilled manipulation and questioning" - this is me trying to get under the skin of players and getting the info I want.

- "that condescending/accusatory/defensive tone just constantly agitated me" - this is NAI. Why can't town-keyser be agitated if they think they have been wronged/miss-repped?

- "I didn't react to ANY of his American Presidents posts this way" - logical fallacy. Presidents game is not the parameter of my town-range.

- "like when you post a condescending gaslighty defensive comment at me right before I was about to point out that scum-you does this" this stinks of confirm bias.

- "he uses way more :emoticons: and formatting I think" - emoticons and formatting are NAI for me. Again, this stinks of confirm bias. You're getting very lazy and reachy, it must be very late.

- "you're willing to do a total 180 for no reason" - town can do 180's. If you don't understand my frustration with the Dunstrall slot you haven't really understood my stance on him at all.

- "no one can change tone and attitude" - logical fallacy: just because you haven't seen it happen in your experience doesn't make it fact. From my personal experience, change in tone and attitude is NAI. People can change. People could be going through things in their personal life that effects their tone/attitude/aura/presence.

- "half of your posts were defensive to the point of manipulation." - I've had to put up with a lot of accusations this game. Hence, the heightened defensive disposition. Town can manipulate too btw. It's not 'manipulation' though... it's 'convincing'.

[Keyser Söze]

Yes, began D2 scum reading Dunnstral, but then WIFOM malware infected my processes, making it very difficult for me to see Dunn as scum playing to any wincon.

Now I just want to flip Dunnstral and go from there really.

[Keyser Söze]

‘Sometimes it's the journey that teaches you a lot about your destination’
- Drake

[Keyser Söze]

Also, the fact that your talking about MY confidence is ???

Keyser went from hard-defending Dunn with nothing but WIFOM read, and then he suddenly switches to
“If Dunn flips town I’m replacing out”
That’s literally staking his part of the game on dunn’s Flip being red.

If that’s not confidence, then I don’t know what is

I’m not confident of Dunn flipping red. You have misunderstood my post.

I will lose interest in this game if he flips green.

[Keyser Söze]

You should have voted for me or Dunn earlier, instead of chain-linking us together ALL day.

If Dunn flips red, this will be very interesting.

[Keyser Söze]

Wellplayed Ausuka x

[Keyser Söze]

I suggest we look st the Eragon counter wagon (which I admittedly started).

I think scum would have been tempted to join here as you had some of the ‘leaders’ condone that wagon.


Players on my hit list:
The worst (bottom of the pile for me in terms of reads, we should be voting here IMO, time to put fire up his ass)
Toranaga (one last sanity check for this slot: started D2 in my PoE,but ended D2 in my town pile)

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: the worst

[Keyser Söze]

P.S. VOTE: Keyser Söze

[Keyser Söze]

what're the odds reundo is scum?

meh, not sure. he was right there on the volxen wagon, but townread dunnstral day 2 (albeit for reasons consistent with reasons for him townreading me). his reaction at the end of the day seems pretty strange to me coming from someone who had a townread on dunn, though.

Wellplayed Ausuka x

Reundo town through and through for me.
Crystal clear scum read progression and methodology on Volxen.
Delightful brain waves regarding Dunnstral slot that I felt during the middle part of D2.
If scum, an exceptional scum player I will never want to play with again as his scum game is untraceable in my eyes and he mirrored many of my developing thoughts on players.
Town

[Keyser Söze]

I personally think it's always either eragon or the worst

I ended D2 thinking Eragon was a townie caught in toxic confirm bias and drink on hilarious paranoia. NOT scum chainlinking me with his partner. I had to go deep to get that understanding of our interactions.

I think The Worst is the player we pressure right now.


He’s got to stop dancing. Let’s cut the music and make him talk.

[Keyser Söze]

Drunk*

[Keyser Söze]

convince me your town and convince me ducky is scum

When I’m back on my laptop, yes.

[Keyser Söze]

wow... ok then...

im like 95% confident last scum is in (keyser/NSG)

i could see TW, but i just really dont...

VOTE: Keyser Soze


p-edit: Tora, those posts are hot damn...

I promise not to antagonise you anymore mate. I know you’re for real now.

[Keyser Söze]

last scum is actually incredibly hard to figure out and I can see eragon's posts on d2 as not w/w with dunn as well

I really don't know where to go.

are we sure nauci is town?

Nauci is not top tier town but she’s very safe for today.

Her reads (apart from me) have been ok.

My chat with her at the end of D2 was very constructive too (it solved the mystery of Dunnstral and Eragon for me).

[Keyser Söze]

on the second part, not necessarily the first

HEYYYYY!

[Keyser Söze]

At least TW has written off all other possible rival wagons to his own

What’s your play today?

[Keyser Söze]

last scum is obviously good lmao
it's just in {Tora, Rel, Reundo} outside chance of Nauci everyone else is like too high town equity

can't really be bothered crossing names out if this bracket atm but i know I need to

Unfortunately the mob would lynch me or you before these 3

[Keyser Söze]

I'm aware of that
assuming I'm town where the fuck do we go next?

That’s where you’ve messed up.
You’ve given yourself no outs.

[Keyser Söze]

lynch Eragon not Dunn
the fuck

lynch Eragon not Dunn
the fuck

actually I think I dreamed up reasons to townread Dunn
VOTE: Dunnstral
if this greens Eragon tmrw obviously and we have his partner in the fucks who tried to manipulate the wagon : ]

KING DUCKLING
LOLHAMMERING SCUM SINCE 2K18

brb

i dont really think that these posts feel natural to me with Dunn interactions

This is the Worst’s dance.

He’ll do exactly what you expect and don’t expect in an over the top performance.

Strip away the music, and you’re left with a distancing attempt and healthy dose of WIFOM that he can fall back on.

[Keyser Söze]

early vote park on his rvs on Dunn doesn't actually feel partnery at all..switch to Sesq was legit and Rel jumped on the same E issues I had originally

yuck I hope this isn't scumRel or I'm fucked

Already said scum-Irrelephant has already won this game
But I think this is the same inquisitive soul that I played with in my last game. He’s had his nose and fingers in every pie this game. Not in a scummy/opportunistic way, but in a global scum hunting style. Plus, he’s had so many chances to misslynch my ass this game it’s not funny. Nauci-Irrephant would have powered through any lynch if they stood together.

[Keyser Söze]

@Eragon - “If you say that someone has a finger in every pie, you mean they are involved in a lot of things. He very much likes to have a finger in every pie. He's a man with fingers in a lot of pies.”

[Keyser Söze]

I’d be very uncomfortable lynching Reundo today (he has more town cred than even me!)

[Keyser Söze]

Why NSG? Eragon

[Keyser Söze]

I present to you
pierelephant11

Maybe he’s eaten one too many pies!

[Keyser Söze]

I’d be very uncomfortable lynching Reundo today (he has more town cred than even me!)

you gonna take a look and talk to me about why Reundo is hardcore town in your book or just bury your head in the sand with consensus reads? lmao

Already talked about him D1, D2 and D3.

Can multi quote when on laptop (in morning).

[Keyser Söze]

I guess Reundo would only be lynched if he got to the last 3.



His intricate scum case on me was so well constructed, painting me as Volxen’s perfect partner...
But I don’t see two scum trying to set me up like that for a single misslynch.
It felt more like a townie starting with a scum read on me, then turning everything I wrote into something scummy, and every thing Volxen wrote as a link to me. I’m nobody though, just a man with a vote.

[Keyser Söze]

I think the biggest reason most of Keyser's defensive posts kept reading as scummy af to me is because he almost always resort to "OMG town does this thing too IT'S A TERRIBLE REASON TO SR ME" instead of explaining the thought process for why he did a thing in this particular game and context.

I did make one final defence post pointing out that all your reasons to scum read me were a) not alignment indicative b) wrong c) strong evidence of you being caught in confirmation bias

[Keyser Söze]

Dunn has been wolfy
Dunn is l-1 and has disappeared
Dunn is good at town and can be awkward as scum

But TW still votes Eragon when I had worked up a last ditch effort to get Eragon wiped from the game....
I would have probably been lynched today if I hadn’t changed my mind on Eragon. That was two viable misslynches he could work with.

Smells like: scummy opportunism
Tastes like: TW scum-meta

[Keyser Söze]

Gonna start looking at my town reads now (as I feel like I’m already too confident to pull the trigger on TW).

[Keyser Söze]

I have been explaining my reads... and where I think the vote should be... and where I think it shouldn’t...


I haven’t been this empty vessel as you’re trying to portray. I think it’s the first game where I’ve been happy to freely use my vote. I usually just sit on it, but what use is a sheathed sword?

[Keyser Söze]

I really don’t want to start hunting into my town reads tomorrow.

This game

I think they’ve already had a great game if TW flips green.

[Keyser Söze]

Dunn has been wolfy
Dunn is l-1 and has disappeared
Dunn is good at town and can be awkward as scum

But TW still votes Eragon when I had worked up a last ditch effort to get Eragon wiped from the game....
I would have probably been lynched today if I hadn’t changed my mind on Eragon. That was two viable misslynches he could work with.

Smells like: scummy opportunism
Tastes like: TW scum-meta

> single quote out of context
oh sweaty
follow my iso for a bit and see if you see my reasons for voting Eragon.

Yes, I’ve read the ‘reasons’ why you voted Eragon, but I opened up the avenue for you to jump ship.

The Eragon wagon became very real at one stage. Desperate times mean desperate measures.

[Keyser Söze]

FOS Taranaga (hey Taranaga, please give me a rating for a) effort b) believability c) sincerity).

volxen/sesq/271 all fine lynches

Taranaga name drops his scum partner’s name and two other viable wagons.
Does not go into detail or present his scum case on any of them.

do you think it's beneficial or necessary to talk about things that you clearly don't think are alignment indicative?

Taranaga asks this question to Volxen: it’s a very non-aggressive/rhetorical question you would ask your scum partner. I suspect it was soft-distancing.

keyser, idk man, I lost interest with this game cause nobody is playing it

half the slots are scummy so idek where to vote

I asked Taranaga why he still had not voted (despite expressing 3 names he would like to lynch). I did not believe he was being sincere here. The tone feels fake. The excuse weak.

Taranaga replaced into the game full of character and venom, but has suddenly lost the motivation and town initiative to put his money where his mouth is...? Smells like a scum who doesn’t want to put unnecessary pressure on his scum mate... and watch the current misslynch wagon thrive (this is serious tin foil hat territory now! Who is still reading?)

Taranaga has promised us content but not delivered (instead he appears more concerned with fronting a relaxed /friendly exterior).

VOTE: volxen

volxen made a lot of scumsplaining and description posts that added no leans and didn't help the game move forward. I think he has a bigger chance of being scum than sesq who is probably kind of... incoherent? regardless of what they rand.

I don’t like the timing of this. I feel like Taranaga could see the change of wind from Sesq to Volxen, so decided it was time to finally post his ‘case’ on Volxen and hop onto the wagon (I.e the golden ticket to town cred).

@Toranaga

Why did you town read me for this?

Why was it not scum-keyser shading you/ missrepping you?

Was I merely a dumb townie in your eyes?

[Keyser Söze]

also it's ok to be wrong about people, I was pushing ausuka and NSG hard and I was probably 0/2 there wasn't I

I don't see the scum motivation in anyone casing me d2

Yes, that's what I've learnt recently, if you have a read air it. It doesn't matter if you're wrong. The road you take with that read will strengthen your understanding of that player on the long run. As long as you end up voting/lynching scum all is forgiven.

[Keyser Söze]

I don't mean this as an insult, you're a good player keyser

I just think you're very honest and relatable on a newer player sort of way

Not insulted mate. I've tried to be as transparent as possible (I know my wording is still not 100% site-friendly).

This game is about idiots and stubborn players coming together as a team. Leave emotion and your pride at the door.

[Keyser Söze]

yes you're VI as fuck

What did you think of Irrelephant's case on you?

I wouldn't put him in the VI category...

[Keyser Söze]

We’ve done well this game by lynching the players who don’t look like townies so I suggest we continue with that strategy

Yeah, I think I had you and Irelephant scoring highest in ‘villagery sounding posts’ and tone too. It took you a while to get your head in the game though tbf, hence why I didn’t trust you D1.

[Keyser Söze]

Re-reading Volxen’s entrance... he loved defending me when I was being wrongfully attacked for asking that NAI game setup question. Plus, he spent way too much time talking about a null read (Game Burger).

Who replaced GameBurger....?

[Keyser Söze]

Let me just check the OP...

[Keyser Söze]

Was thinking bad scum-distancing...

Ok, gonna stop fixating over your slot.

[Keyser Söze]

@TW
Reading Reundo’s short ISO, to see scum there I would need to believe the following narrative:
D1: Reundo plays the optimal distancing game (dunks Volxen with acute focus)
D2: Reundo plays the perfect anti-distancing game (doesn’t really dig the Dunnstral lynch, instead spends time building counter wagons)

?
Too perfect for me, sorry.

So, maybe not Irrelphant town tier in terms of knowing exactly what is going through his mind, but his few iconic actions simply cash in too much town cred for me to kill him today.

What posts are you using to scum read him with? Or is it a tone thing?

[Keyser Söze]

@Irrelphant - it has been a privilege playing at your side too.

[Keyser Söze]

(We’re not the old couple in the bed spooning, watch the video)

[Keyser Söze]

@tw how willing are you to be the designated lynch to help all of us distracted by your slot sort the rest of the playerlist?
@keyser same question

Yes, but I would prefer a 100% read win.

[Keyser Söze]

I am also fully aware I am D5’s lynch if TW flips green.

[Keyser Söze]

Interesting.

[Keyser Söze]

@Reundo

Do you town read the worst?

[Keyser Söze]

keyser is a slot that half the thread is strong scumreading and the other half is pretty sure it's town

kind of unique

There’s only one thing to do...

[Keyser Söze]

I want Reundo to tell me why TW is town.

I don’t want Reundo pushing TW’s lynch tomorrow if I’m lynched today.

[Keyser Söze]

Why would scum-Reundo put their neck out like this?

They had the D3:TW and D4:Keyser lynches lined up for the win

[Keyser Söze]

ty <3
do reundo next

Reundo’s doing himself right now

[Keyser Söze]

If Reundo/Nauci/Eragon are left in the game later on, I’m sure they put my lynch over the other players no?

Even if my lynch is the wrong lynch, it’s the right lynch potentially tomorrow just so those 3 players reset their reads and re-evaluate (even Irrelphant may be forced to put me in their PoE for tomorrow).

[Keyser Söze]

I'll get to this later tonight, but for now I'll just drop this off.

VOTE: Keyser Söze

Hi reundo, your D1 lynch on Volxen won you lots of town cred.

Can you today at least start to open up and share your thoughts on everyone.

That would be lovely.

Yours sincerely, Keyser Söze.

[Keyser Söze]

@NSG - I just got what you meant!

[Keyser Söze]

UNVOTE: the worst

Let’s slow this down.

Let’s slow this waaaay down.



*unzips trousers*

[Keyser Söze]

Sorry was appealing to emotion

Fascinated to hear Reundo’s town case on TW, but just realised he won’t be online til later.

Incase I fall asleep, good night x

[Keyser Söze]

Cash in town cred from D1 then live rent free in parent’s basement?

[Keyser Söze]

Did Reundo show up to fully explain his world view?

[Keyser Söze]

He has a 72 hour deadline, commencing now.

[Keyser Söze]

If Reundo makes a hundred posts today I think we’ll solve the game.

[Keyser Söze]

@anyone - rank the current alive playerlist in terms of WIM (include your own name too).

My final table was actually surprising.

Share me yours first.

[Keyser Söze]

Very interesting.

If scum isn’t in [Nauci, Tora, Eragon, NSG, Irrelephant] I think we win here anyway.

[Keyser Söze]

He has a 72 hour deadline, commencing now.

I’ll extend this to Tuesday evening (inclusive of you expressing a tangible read on both Tora and NSG).

I can only see the lynches you want today and tomorrow so far.

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: reundo

scummy af entrance

Yeah, Reundo had the worst entrance out of every player.

Reundo still demonstrating the inability to post in real time.



So is that his thing, post enough to pull of a clinical bus of his teammate and cash in towncred galore, day two doesn’t know what to do as he witnesses his scum mate being savaged, a wagon he was half hesitant with...?

After consulting my teammates, IT’S SIMPLY NOT GOOD ENOUGH





You no longer deserve the cloak of invincibility I bestowed upon you!

[Keyser Söze]

The worst may actually be a genius and won us the game here.

[Keyser Söze]

Scum-The worst has set himself up to be today’s or tomorrow’s lynch by hard town reading me.

Scum-Reundo has guaranteed their place in the last three through the readslist they just expressed.


@The worst - I bet you wouldn’t mind being lynched today like me would you?

[Keyser Söze]

the only people legitimately playing poorly flipped scum

and yeah the worst is a genius

I even loved playing with scum-TW in a previous game (I was town). That guy raises the mindf*ckery and entertainment to box office level.




I need Reundo to come back in here and tickle my belly and make me believe his reads are real.

I think the first round went to TW.
Reundo needs to come into the second round fighting.

[Keyser Söze]

tw keeps pinging me lol

Good thing is, Scum-TW can’t win now. He’s left himself no outs.

[Keyser Söze]

Do you think the game is solved now?

[Keyser Söze]

Why did you choose to only start serious-posting today?

[Keyser Söze]

I re-examined how the sesq wagon came about in response to the first volxen wagon

New reads:

Eragon
Reundo
Keyser Söze
Ausuka
Toranaga
Nauci
the worst
northsidegal
Dunnstral

check nsg's scum meta
check Reundo's town meta

Please can you tell me more about this.

I am currently building a meta-case.

[Keyser Söze]

Hmmm... the Reundo in this game has lost his voice.

There is no soul in his posts!


It’s like a demon has possessed the body of Reundo and is trying to mimic him!

[Keyser Söze]

Guess who’s coming to knock on your door ‘Reundo’...

[Keyser Söze]

Does anyone have Holy water?

[Keyser Söze]

I CAST YOU OUT, UNCLEAN SPIRIT!



VOTE: Reundo

[Keyser Söze]

Knew you were online.

Knew the Holy water would get you to talk.



WHERE IS TOWN REUNDO?!

[Keyser Söze]

Reundo calling TW “incredibly lazy“

Moreover, TW’s ‘case’ on you is not only for meta reasons.



Reundo said: “there was nothing that any of my scum-reads or town-reads did that caused me to rethink my read on them entirely”.
Let’s take a step back now: what experienced player would be so narrow-minded, and not re-evaluate their reads? D2 was a plethora of information. Reundo keeps moving between being ‘out the loop’/‘being vague about D2’ to being fully convinced of TW/Keyser Söze lock-scum. There are times when a townie just needs to put his hands up and admit they don’t have all the facts and they need to put in the work before being so locked in their reads. Therefore, I find Reundo’s stubborn stance towards NSG and TW very suspicious.

Reundo added: “you're still trying to dodge yourself out of casing scum!me w/o referring to meta comparisons makes me even more convinced that you simply can't do it.”
That’s why we’re asking you to open your mouth today to actually read your soul. You had made 15-20 meaningful posts in your ISO before today (30 posts in total??), so obviously nobody is going to have an extensive/deep scum case on you. All we’ve seen is D1: town cred with 3 killer posts on Volxen (perfect distancing) D2: anti-distancing by fumbling about with counter wagons. This game has taught me to not be so reliant on WIFOM, you need to earn those town points. Plus, your whole defense stinks of ‘caught-for-the-wrong-reasons’. Surely town-you should recognise and appreciate why we should be paranoid about your behaviour. You deflecting TW’s/NSG’s points with petty excuses is ringing alarm bells.



Ok, that’s the second round over, and I score that as 2-0 to TW now. Can TW turn the O-2 into the O-3?

[Keyser Söze]

I think I need Irrelephant for a sanity check.

[Keyser Söze]

Oh, and which player does Volxen attempt to create last-minute distancing with, before being cut off by the mod and ending the day:

I don't really have any time to elaborate before the deadline, but I do think Reundo may possibly be scum. I really didn't like his entrance to the game and the way he attacked Keyser right off the bat, and I think the way he is playing this game is very opportunistic.

Oh, and just for reference, this becomes very pertinent after Dunnstral’s flip:

Votecount 1.15

volxen (6) - Reundo 220, Sesq 222, Keyser Söze 224, Toranaga 402, the worst 406, Ausuka 408
Sesq (3) - Dunnstral 117, northsidegal 307, volxen 330
Keyser Söze (1) - Huntress 393
Toranaga (1) - Irrelephant 255
Huntress (1) - Eragon 194

Not voting: N/A

The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).

Who else said DUNN-NSG-VOLXEN are unlikely scum team based on all three sat on Sesq/Nauci slot at EoD?

Today is about finding The Man Who Bussed Volxen For Most Optimal Gain.

[Keyser Söze]

Content or tone Nauci?

I’ve been loving Toranaga since the middle of D2.

[Keyser Söze]

Yes please.

[Keyser Söze]

Only if I’m on holiday... 4 or 5 day gamedays would be more manageable.

[Keyser Söze]

I preferably want a TW vs Reundo fight to the death today.

[Keyser Söze]

Reundo’s 3-hit strike on Volxen is remarkable but what else in his ISO says town?

[Keyser Söze]

UNVOTE:

[Keyser Söze]

Opportunistic?

Yes, I want to get the lynch I want.

I still want more information.

[Keyser Söze]

hardclaim opportunistic cornered town
I'll lynch Keyser over myself if you all agree not to mislynch me if he flips town

I'm just super worried we're both in the same position of having been irreparably PoE'd

Are myself and Reundo your bottom two reads now?

[Keyser Söze]

hardclaim opportunistic cornered town
I'll lynch Keyser over myself if you all agree not to mislynch me if he flips town

I'm just super worried we're both in the same position of having been irreparably PoE'd

I wish you’d not said this mate. I thought you were willing to sacrifice yourself like me?

I would put my own lynch before anyone today, as long as my final scum read is lynched tomorrow.

I thought you felt the same way?

[Keyser Söze]

I’m dissapointed.

[Keyser Söze]

Go back to your Reundo scum read as it sounds like you think I’m still viable.

How sure are you of scum-Reundo?

[Keyser Söze]

I understand Nauci’s scum read of me.
I understood Eragon’s scum read of me.

But your willingness to lynch me now...? Not good bro, not good.

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser/TW interactions might just be the bestest thing right now :popcorn:

Great thing is, as this is an open setup everyone knows this isn’t scum theatre

Coz it reeks of it if you were to take a step back

[Keyser Söze]

hardclaim opportunistic cornered town
I'll lynch Keyser over myself if you all agree not to mislynch me if he flips town

I'm just super worried we're both in the same position of having been irreparably PoE'd

Are myself and Reundo your bottom two reads now?

I haven't hard reassessed my reads based on the last few pages but you're dropping hard :c I still think Reundo needs to die before endgame but I think your flip is close to being a necessity

That said lynching through both of us feels.. bad

Necessity?

Why? Because Nauci/Eragon/Reundo scum read me?

WTF are you doing TW? If you’re town you’re f****g up the dynamics now.

[Keyser Söze]

Team before individual survival.

INFORMATION is key.


Do what you want. Not what the majority want. Go after your scum reads to the bitter end.

How am I supposed to interpret your survivalist play here?

“Necessity” to lynch your town read?

Me and you were supposed to be ok with being lynched.

[Keyser Söze]

[Keyser Söze]

{Nauci, Irrelephant, Keyser}
{nsg, (will just trust nauci on this particular read since I'm low on towns anyway) dunnstral}
{Eragon, the worst, Toranga}
{reundo}

about here, i'm probably missing something

Her s/read of Eragon deepens by the end (votes there).

[Keyser Söze]

Moreover, I want to apologise for putting Reundo to L-1 yesterday without them actually defending their slot.

We have time to wait for their full catchup.

[Keyser Söze]

Time to bring balance to the force!

[Keyser Söze]

Reundo keeps promising they’ll return but something tells me they’re not going to show up tonight.

[Keyser Söze]

Do you want me to hammer you TW?

I actually was really behind your case on Reundo until last night... but for your Sith Lord behaviour, you deserve to be sentenced to death

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: the worst

[Keyser Söze]

reundo is town

It was a healthy exercise going through the theory in real time though with you guys.

[Keyser Söze]

I couldn’t take another day

This whole game has felt cathartic for me though. Starting to enjoy mafia again these last two games now.

[Keyser Söze]

It’s all about the WIM xxx

[Keyser Söze]

I never got a chance to do my catch up! It was basically just going to end up with me listing a bunch of reasons why I wanted to lynch the worst anyways. Still disappointed you guys decided to hammer w/o hearing from me first, but that's basically my fault for being so inactive these past couple of days. Sorry about that everyone.

Nice work on Volxen Reundo on D1.

You should have kept involved though bro... stops us getting paranoid.

[Keyser Söze]

still town. sorry all.

Really?

I think we’ve lost then

[Keyser Söze]

If there is a D4, I’ll do an ISO analysis of each player.

Starting with Reundo, Eragon, Tora, Nauci, NSG and then Irrelephant.

[Keyser Söze]

[Sorry TW, you should have stuck with your focus on Reundo: that late Sith move onto me really shook me up... and sadly I had to policy lynch you for it.]

[Keyser Söze]

Where my head is right now regarding Reundo.

The scum narrative:

- uncomfortable start pressing non alignment indicative factors as scummy (worst entrance by any player), realises he needs to save his slot
- busses teammate (Volxen) and continues miminal posting
- sets himself up perfectly: nobody can put together a strong case versus his small ISO, and will all bestow town cred on him for his acute push on flipped scum. He’s happy to be town read and be outside everyone's PoE
- half hesitant with Dunnstral wagon
- continues a suspicious periphery presence (choosing when to join the game when a misslynch is viable)
- I actually think he’s out of his element with the town players in this playerslist so has failed to engage one on one in real time. We could have had a perfect game lynching him yesterday.
- his reads reflect two misslynches lined up (his only strategy now)
- his timing to show up is always bad (scum indicative opportunistic/survivalist behaviour)
- there is a serious lack of WIM from his slot (the least WIM demonstrated by all the playerlist, despite apparently dunking on scum on D1)
- no pro-active sorting of the playerlist (where is the sincere town initiative, the paranoia, the genuine concern of someone challenging both his reads and others?
- the more he posts about myself/Toranaga the more likely he’ll be lynched tomorrow anyway (so he’s in a dilemma, thus, his pro-active contributions will be underwhelming yet again)
- meta: his posts lack the soul of the town meta I have read of his. This Reundo is not the real town Reundo, but a fake imitation.


Promised to ISO each player though first before I vote.

[Keyser Söze]

Wellplayed NSG - you were quality this game x

Need a reunion of this playerlist soon.

[Keyser Söze]

I just never scumread anything he writes

maybe he is scum and I have a blindspot for the guy, but he feels absolutely genuine the entire time he is here.

I feel the same about Toranaga.

[Keyser Söze]

Eragon evolved into a different type of player on D3 (he was so uptight on D2) - perhaps it was when they realised I wasn't scum

[Keyser Söze]

So fmpov either scum is eragon or one scum bussed the volxen lynch
that challenges some assumptions

I've been along the 'scum bussed scum' narrative for a long time now. So I expect attention my way via VCA (I'm on both the Volxen and Dunstral lynch wagons).

Let's face it though, Volxen was no hard lynch. There wasn't an uphill struggle to make their wagon/lynch viable. If Volxen had been mass-town cred, then cased, then maybe you would give massive kudos to the people who pro-actively pushed his wagon, but no.

Dead weight scum is dead weight scum.

[Keyser Söze]

It can just be reundo, I guess
Reundo come play

Check any Reundo town game to see if they're this distant.

His posts lack soul and drive here.



Then he magically appears and says he wants me and The worst dead. HOW? WHAT? WHY?

Today he's appeared saying he wants me and Tora dead. HOW? WHAT? WHY?


I don't believe 1% the sincerity of his reads.

The only thing he was truly open about (with surgical precision) was his read on Volxen (which I believe was a bus).

[Keyser Söze]

So fmpov either scum is eragon or one scum bussed the volxen lynch
that challenges some assumptions

I've been along the 'scum bussed scum' narrative for a long time now. So I expect attention my way via VCA (I'm on both the Volxen and Dunstral lynch wagons).

Let's face it though, Volxen was no hard lynch. There wasn't an uphill struggle to make their wagon/lynch viable. If Volxen had been mass-town cred, then cased, then maybe you would give massive kudos to the people who pro-actively pushed his wagon, but no.

Dead weight scum is dead weight scum.

*mass town read

[Keyser Söze]

Toranaga isn't scum because he made sure volxen got lynched d1
Reundo isn't scum because he made sure volxen got lynched d1

Take out those reasons for t/reading Tora and Volxen (cos reading Volxen's ISO, it was dire, forced and unnatural) - now how do you read those players?

Which player is trying to solve the game out of Tora/Reundo?

Which player is more likely falling back on that supposed town-cred from D1 out of Tora/Reundo?

Who has been pro-active and pushed wagons with self-evident passion, out of Tora/Reundo?

Who has been beetlejuiced into the thread, out of Tora/Reundo?

Who has talked about their reads and talked one vs one with their own scum reads, out of Tora/Reundo?

Who has conversed with their own town reads to help form understanding of slots they can't read, out of Tora/Reundo?

Who's posting style and display of thoughts/feelings is more natural, out of Tora/Reundo?

[Keyser Söze]

Oh, and which player does Volxen attempt to create last-minute distancing with, before being cut off by the mod and ending the day:

I don't really have any time to elaborate before the deadline, but I do think Reundo may possibly be scum. I really didn't like his entrance to the game and the way he attacked Keyser right off the bat, and I think the way he is playing this game is very opportunistic.

Oh, and just for reference, this becomes very pertinent after Dunnstral’s flip:

Votecount 1.15

volxen (6) - Reundo 220, Sesq 222, Keyser Söze 224, Toranaga 402, the worst 406, Ausuka 408
Sesq (3) - Dunnstral 117, northsidegal 307, volxen 330
Keyser Söze (1) - Huntress 393
Toranaga (1) - Irrelephant 255
Huntress (1) - Eragon 194

Not voting: N/A

The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).

Who else said DUNN-NSG-VOLXEN are unlikely scum team based on all three sat on Sesq/Nauci slot at EoD?

Today is about finding The Man Who Bussed Volxen For Most Optimal Gain.

^



Moreover, Volxen attacked both Sesq and 2.718 for attacking me/scum reading me at the start of D1.
But somehow Volxen overlooked Reundo attacking me/scum reading me at the start of D1... and only remembered at the very end of D1 before he was lynched.

[Keyser Söze]

And I only did it last gameday because it was largely during the weekend when I generally don't have much time to play mafia, and by the time I did have the time to write a catch-up the worst was already lynched.

Excuses excuses.

You do realise how long the game days are?

You watched us miss lynch The Worst.

VOTE: Keyser Söze

It's pretty much either him or Toranaga at this point, but Keyser is definitely the scummier one by a longshot. There's just zero world where any of Irrelephant/Nauci/Eragon flips scum.

Explain to me how you are so sure?

I've studied every post and tried to be as attentive as possible but even I would fully town clear 'Irrelephant/Nauci/Eragon' - where is the paranoia to rationalize and do the due diligence homework to support any of your reads?

It was me or the worst yesterday, and now me and Tora today? I knew you were lining up misslynches as soon as I realised you weren't reading the thread/analysing/revising your reads.

You don't even have the interactions to be so locked into confirmation bias either (like I was with Eragon)

[Keyser Söze]

And I only did it last gameday because it was largely during the weekend when I generally don't have much time to play mafia, and by the time I did have the time to write a catch-up the worst was already lynched.

Excuses excuses.

You do realise how long the game days are?

You watched us miss lynch The Worst.

VOTE: Keyser Söze

It's pretty much either him or Toranaga at this point, but Keyser is definitely the scummier one by a longshot. There's just zero world where any of Irrelephant/Nauci/Eragon flips scum.

Explain to me how you are so sure?

I've studied every post and tried to be as attentive as possible but even I would fully town clear 'Irrelephant/Nauci/Eragon' - where is the paranoia to rationalize and do the due diligence homework to support any of your reads?

It was me or the worst yesterday, and now me and Tora today? I knew you were lining up misslynches as soon as I realised you weren't reading the thread/analysing/revising your reads.

You don't even have the interactions to be so locked into confirmation bias either (like I was with Eragon)

Would NOT fully town clear ffs

[Keyser Söze]

@Reundo - help me with Toranaga and Ausuka.
Both can’t be scum... so either both town, or one scum?

Why do you call out to Reundo here?

This is a really interesting post too!


What is wrong with me asking for a teammate’s opinion on two slots I could not sort.

Why is asking Reundo worth calling out?

It’s as if he thinks me specifically calling out Reundo is suspicious...



The fact Dunnstral flipped scum makes it very intriguing indeed!

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: reundo

I think this is it

[Keyser Söze]

Toranaga isn't scum because he made sure volxen got lynched d1
Reundo isn't scum because he made sure volxen got lynched d1

Take out those reasons for t/reading Tora and Volxen

*Tora and Reundo


Didn’t get much sleep last night, sorry for the typos.

[Keyser Söze]

Which player do I read through first?

[Keyser Söze]

I've chosen to do a full ISO on Nauci next (will probs get round to doing it Saturday).

Irrelephant11 is right, Reundo needs to deliver today.

[Keyser Söze]

I made this for if Keyser is town here

That is genius

[Keyser Söze]

Can I use it Nauci? Pleeeeeease x

[Keyser Söze]

Prodge.

Still waiting for Reundo’s complete gameview.

[Keyser Söze]

- My 180 on both Dunnstral and The Worst is the purist thing we will witness this game.

We would have lynched scum 3 days in row until TW made that ‘I could lynch Keyser Söze to save my own ass’ post instead of following through with his scum read of you.

He should have made himself expendable and kept faithful to his reads (his Sith-like survivalistic play looked last ditch scummy). Maybe he really just didn’t want stop playing with this playerlist?


- Again, defensiveness isn’t scummy. But if you think my defensiveness has been scummy it will be a scum tell you will need to learn that isn’t that accurate.


- In the end I wouldn’t say I’ve had a 10/10 game, but I’m happy to have voted/killed two scum. If you don’t think my trajectory on either wagon doesn’t win me enough town cred that’s not my concern. If I was scum, town cred would be the only thing I would be concerned with.

- the flip flopping is part of my new growth as a town player. There is nothing wrong with being wrong. Use your teammates. Humility before stubbornness. Do not be blinded by confirmation bias. No one is a closed case. I still put too much weight into WIFOM though (see my defence of Dunnstral).

[Keyser Söze]

FTR, even if that scum narrative (my interactions with Volxen and Dunnstral) look plausible - even I cooked up quite a convincing scum narrative about Toranaga in my head (in relation to the Volxen wagon), but after I realised town are allowed to look bad, and once I took my head out of the hole of trying to connect every post to Volxen, I concluded I was reading too much into inncocent behaviour.



I’ve still got to see your complete game view. You appear stuck in all your reads, but I see no evidence of how you’ve become so planted and entrenched in this fixed readslist and PoE. Usually if a player has all these walls up they have the supporting foundation to reflect how they got there.

Before today you had around 30 posts... and in my eyes 3 misslynches you were going to persue for the scum win.

So unless you have a secret PT which you’ve been making notes alongside this game you are either:


- town who has become so disconnected with the game since D1 for IRL reasons...

- scum who is working through the viable misslynches...




If you’re town you basically have to convince me to lynch one of my town reads.


(Obviously I’ll be re-evaluating my town reads today too, when I get back on my laptop).

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser, did you still feel that you'd be okay with being lynched so long as reundo was lynched after, like you offered yesteray?

Yeah offer still open if that's what the majority want, because if a slot like Irrelephant is scum here, I'm beaten anyway.

[Keyser Söze]

[I've got 9 days to re-read 4 players though... because if Reundo is town here, this is the last day I'm being town read by you guys Even I can admit that]

[Keyser Söze]

FTR: All this 'flip flopping' has given me whiplash ... this will likely be my laziest day this game (unless Reundo stops posting in the way he is doing - then we can enjoy some meaty interactions)

[Keyser Söze]

Originally I was scum reading Eragon for trying to chainlink me all day with his ‘scum partner’ (but I didn’t want to express my scum-scum theory before a flip). Dunn vs Eragon wagons was the best flip to unravel my reads too.

Dunnstral then flips scum...

But after my chat with Nauci and during the nightphase something weird happened: I realised Eragon was town. I thought Dunn’s scum flip would strengthen my scum-scum Dunn-Eragon theory but it actually did the opposite. Suddenly Eragon’s whole D2 push on me felt legit (from a townie).

[Keyser Söze]

I need advice from a neutral party:

Does this look like confirmation bias? Or someone suspiciously chaining misslynches / linking a townie-to-scum?

@Irrelphant11 - what does it look like to you?

You are a good person to ask as you scum read me in our last game.

This is where I needed a neutral view... I can remember you picking apart everything I wrote in our last game, so wanted to see if you saw some of yourself in eragon’s tunnel of me...

Your reply made me more hesitant and reflective RE: Eragon.

[Keyser Söze]

Then after chat with nauci it was pushing me nearer ‘Eragon is town’, ‘Dunnstral is scum’

[Keyser Söze]

I think this game is all in Reundo’s hands to win or lose (no pressure Reundo!)


Will start looking at Nauci tonight (weekend was mad)

[Keyser Söze]

I think this game is all in Reundo’s hands to win or lose (no pressure Reundo!)


Will start looking at Nauci tonight (weekend was mad)

Sorry boys and girls, real life issues delaying my productivity today - please bear with me.

[Keyser Söze]

Sorry for the radio silence. I'll get my Toranaga ISO done tonight.

at what point do you scumread someone for false promises

Depends on how real a counter wagon is.

[Keyser Söze]

I think this game is all in Reundo’s hands to win or lose (no pressure Reundo!)


Will start looking at Nauci tonight (weekend was mad)

why reundo over anyone else?

I’ve been thinking about it a bit more... because Reundo has been so distant all game, he’s also the least likely player to have been pocketed by the ‘hidden wolf’ within the ‘town core’ (I.e I seriously don’t want to case Irrellephant/Eragon/Nauci/Tora right now). Reundo has had no buddy interactions / emotional exchanges / expressed mutual depths of frustration and desperation with someone.

He has the unique opportunity to flip the game on its head... (the wagons each day have been pretty scripted so far: if TW flips green we were always going to lynch Reundo. If Reundo flips green I’m likely next etc - I don’t think the generally accepted PoE has shifted that much).

[Keyser Söze]

Is The Worst allowed to replace in?

Ready for Round 2?

[Keyser Söze]

Well if you’re scum you’ve lost.

And if you’re town you’re gonna die too: while your read on Volxen was glorious on D1, since then your pro-active urgency to find scum and reads have been hideous.

I’m not scum.
I was hoping you could turn the game on it’s head. You have invested too much “equity” into one player and not enough looking at the whole playerlist - something that you should have done today as you have been such a distant figure.


FYI: Flip flopping isn’t scummy. And it’s especially not NAI if I keep flip flopping to lynch scum.

[Keyser Söze]

Especially NAI*

[Keyser Söze]

Are we ever going to lynch Nauci/ Tora/Eragon/Irrelephant?

If not, lynch me today, then force Reundo to look at everyone.

[Keyser Söze]

Yeah Tor’s post was inspired.

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: Reundo

[Keyser Söze]

Reundo’s ‘Tora re-read’ became the ‘even more reasons why Keyser Söze is scum re-read’

[Keyser Söze]

... I don’t know what that is, but it’s not someone I want alive with the town win con on the line.

[Keyser Söze]

@Reundo

Have you attempted to look at the game in the chance that you are wrong about me?

[Keyser Söze]

UNVOTE:

[Keyser Söze]

@Reundo

Have you attempted to look at the game in the chance that you are wrong about me?

Please do this (for me), and let that be your lasting legacy for this game.

[Keyser Söze]

reundo's post about me is so fucking good

Reundo's post about me you mean?

[Keyser Söze]

I knew what you meant I was being sarcastic.

(His re-read on both you and Nauci ultimately ended up being about me)

[Keyser Söze]

Kop said I was town and he is never wrong.

I’ll just leave that here for today / tomorrow.

[Keyser Söze]

If Reundo is town the game is already over guys, lynch me or Reundo.

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: Keyser Soze (for the benefit of those still angling a Keyser counter wagon).

(Will force myself to do one final read with 5 days to go).

[Keyser Söze]

Town Keyser would be fighting hard to stay alive so people don't mislynch in lylo

I just hate all of the "if dunnstral flips green I don't care about this game" or "if reundo flips town it's gg" talk as well

Look at the last 5 pages Nauci, do you seriously think someone not named Keyser or Reundo is getting lynched here?

The game is over.

As I said, Reundo was the only one who could change the game.

He didn’t.

[Keyser Söze]

if keyser is town and reundo is town, we're almost always losing, no?

Correct.

And looking at the posts since my self vote, nothing is stopping the Reundo/Keyser chain lynch

[Keyser Söze]

I think if Keyser makes it to the final day he'll case the hell out of some new person :/

Correct.

Again, this is not scum indicative.

Even a townie will case his next best scum read.

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: Keyser Soze (for the benefit of those still angling a Keyser counter wagon).

(Will force myself to do one final read with 5 days to go).

Side note

Something like 80-85% of self votes I've seen on MS were scum

Well that’s just another scum tell I’m gonna have to rip to shreds this game.

The MS site meta is very tough.

[Keyser Söze]

Reundo needs to offer up real thoughts on everyone.

He can only do that if he sees my green flip.

(Just incase there is a deep wolf who I personally can’t lynch tomorrow. Reundo can, based on his Volxen case / and his town meta, which I’ve read but seen no sign of this game).

[Keyser Söze]

UNVOTE:

[Keyser Söze]

I have little respect for your self vote unless you're scum btw

you're trying to wash your hands to this game. you don't wanna deal with f4, so you're putting the weight of the game on reundo instead.

This was very inspirational Tora, thanks.

I had a sleep on it and decided I must play to my WIN CON here, and vote based on my reads. If we are to lose here, we must lose the right way.

Reundo through their play is least likely to be town. I do believe they haven’t given their slot the full justice it deserves and is locked in their reads, but that isn’t a reason to keep them alive.

VOTE: Reundo

I am very confident town will win this game now.

[Keyser Söze]

Town Keyser would be fighting hard to stay alive so people don't mislynch in lylo

I just hate all of the "if dunnstral flips green I don't care about this game" or "if reundo flips town it's gg" talk as well

Look at the last 5 pages Nauci, do you seriously think someone not named Keyser or Reundo is getting lynched here?

The game is over.

As I said, Reundo was the only one who could change the game.

He didn’t.

You could change it by getting me out of tunneling you by showing your work

You could have done that any time since Day 2 when I started calling out things

But the explanation for why you didn't mention volxen buttering you up was absolutely insufficient; town Keyser does not let that blatant pocketing sit unless you want to show me other times you have, as town

FTR: Volxen used me a spring board to attack townies for attacking me.

I was his cornerstone town read that fed into his scum reads and only meaningful interactions.

Those are the hard facts, right there.

If there is a tomorrow, I’ll explain every post I’ve made and re-read every player (something I have failed to do today).

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: Keyser Soze (for the benefit of those still angling a Keyser counter wagon).

(Will force myself to do one final read with 5 days to go).

Side note

Something like 80-85% of self votes I've seen on MS were scum

Well that’s just another scum tell I’m gonna have to rip to shreds this game.

The MS site meta is very tough.

Are you ever going to stray from "this scummy thing I did isn't a scum thing!"?

Yes.

What else can I say? That my self vote was scum motivated? No Nauci. Sometimes town can self vote when they feel defeated or very frustrated when faced with the inevitable. Tora read right through my anti-town self-vote: I was trying to pass the bucket (the blame) onto Reundo for failing to solve the game.