Murder Riddle II (Solved!)

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Post Post #1 (isolation #0) » Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:16 am

Post by 2 718281828459 »

All right, so I was trying to figure out who confirmed whose deaths.

Alpha (3) -> Ferris, Ruby, Menna
Tom (2) -> Miles, Micah
Brian (1) -> Nik
Tony (5) -> Brian (-> Nik), Nettle, Ruby, Steve
Catherine (1) -> Ren
Alder (6) -> Catherine (-> Ren), Alpha (-> Ferris, Ruby, Menna)

I am not sure if Brian actually confirmed the death of Nik. He said in purple that it "looked" like Nik died, but that does not seem like the same thing as confirming Nik's death. (EDIT: Brian did confirm Nik's death.)

Three people are left at the end. So either all three are innocent and there are at most 3 culprits
EDIT: No, because all deaths are ultimately confirmed by one of them.
(unless Nik is the only culprit)
, or
two are innocent and the third is a culprit with at most one accomplice.
(Or else, the culprits would outnumber the innocents.)
The interesting thing is that I believe that we have no outright confirmed-innocents (from the narration), and of the last three, no one claimed another as innocent. Unless I missed something.
Last edited by 2 718281828459 on Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #5 (isolation #1) » Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:53 am

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So let's see what happens if Alder is clear. Then Alpha, Catherine, Ren, Ferris, Ruby, and Menna are also clear.
It also means that the "dead" culprit faked his/her death
before
Alpha said "Someone pretended to be dead", so Steve would also be clear.

No matter what, Ruby is
definitely town
, because Tony and Alpha (who is clear according to Alder) confirmed Ruby dead.
(Man, those names are confusing... Tom and Tony... and Alpha and Alder... have to be the last four...)

@Invisibility
what?
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Post Post #9 (isolation #2) » Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:33 am

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I just realized something.
Since there cannot be more than 2 culprits, then Nik, Ferris, Ruby, Menna, and Ren are town, because if they were scum then it would imply
two
others lied.

5 confirmed innocents. Now that's something to go off of.
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Post Post #10 (isolation #3) » Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:18 am

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I think I got everything... those five were not that talkative (or lucky)...
Spoiler: Nik, Ferris, Ruby, Menna, and Ren are innocent
Tom
: "Oh God... is he dead? What happened?"
Brian
: "
Nettle had a meeting with him, and he didn't pick up the phone, and the door was locked, and so I called for Ren to open it...
"
Alder
: "
Ferris is dead. He was stabbed to death.
"
Alpha
: "Where did Ren go?"
Nettle
: "She went to lock down the floor, I think."
Nik
: "Does anyone know anything?"
Tony
: "
I met with Ferris from 9:30 to 10:00. He was quite all right at that point. I know he didn't have any meetings afterward until his meeting with Nettle.
"
Steve
: "I know Ferris. He was always paranoid.
He'd never open the door for someone unless he had a meeting with them.
"
Catherine
: "I've been in my office, right across the hall from Ferris's.
I saw Tony leave Ferris's room at 10:00, and nobody entered between then and 10:25. Unfortunately, I had to use the bathroom then; that's where I was when I heard the cries.
"
Alpha
: "Leaving a five minute window. We need alibis. Where was everyone between 10:25 and 10:30?"
Micah
: "
I was with Tom cleaning Conference Room 1.
"
Brian
: "
I was at the front desk until Nettle arrived. Ren can confirm, she was there as well.
"
Ruby
: "
Tony, Nik, and I were in a meeting in Conference Room 2.
"
Alder
: "Alpha, you remember.
I was in the security room talking with you.
"
Steve
: "
I was working in my office.
"
Menna
: "
As was I.
"
Catherine
: "
As I already said, I was in the bathroom.
I think several people can attest that I did go there."
Brian
: "
I didn't see her go
, but I wasn't paying much attention."
Alpha
: "Those aren't very reassuring. Can any of you prove that?"
Steve
: "No, I'm sorry. But you can search me,
I swear I don't have a knife anywhere.
"
Menna
: "
Me neither!
"
Alpha
: "All right. Ren and I will search you two and your offices."
Nettle
: "Wait a minute. Miles, where were you?"
Miles
: "Are you doubting me?"
Nettle
: "I just want to make sure we've covered all our bases."
Miles
: "Well,
I was in my office, as well.
"
Tom
: "You don't have to worry, Nettle. I can vouch for Miles's character.
He would never kill anyone.
"

The security guards began to search the persons and offices of Steve and Menna. Some of the other people left. They were shaken, but it seemed as though the security guards had everything under control. That is, until a scream was heard. The source of the scream was quickly determined to be Tom, and as everyone rushed to him, they found him at the open janitor's closet, staring in horror.


Tom
: "Micah... how could this happen?
We went back to cleaning, and we were doing Conference Room 2. She ran back to get something, but she was gone so long I started to get worried. I came to check on her, and the door was locked, and when I unlocked it I found this... She's definitely dead; she was stabbed. Here key card was here on the floor beside her. I'll destroy it now so nobody can use it.
"
Brian
: "
Nik is in here too. Looks like he was also stabbed to death.
"
Menna
: "That's terrible..."
Ren
: "
Alpha and I searched Steve and Menna. Menna didn't have a knife.
"
Alpha
: "
Neither did Steve.
"
Miles
: "
Tony and I were with them the whole time, supervising.
"
Tony
: "
Indeed we were. Nik was with us too, but he went off toward the conference rooms. That was the last I saw of him.
"
Brian
: "
I was at the front desk for most of the time, but I had to use the bathroom as well.
Alder, Ruby, and Nettle were talking in the lobby pretty much the while time, as far as I know."
Alder
: "
We were discussing intently almost the entire time. We were trying to figure out a reason that somebody would do something like this. The discussion got very heated toward the end.
"
Nettle
: "Yes, it did. I'm surprised that those two didn't see it the way I did... maybe I know some things about Ferris that you people don't."
Ruby
: "
Actually, Alder stormed off near the end.
He was upset about something Nettle said."
Alder
: "He was accusing Miles of killing his own employee!"
Miles
: "What?"
Nettle
: "Listen, I don't know you, but I know more than a few things about what goes on in your department."
Alpha
: "Which way did Alder go?"
Alder
: "
I went up the east hallway, but I didn't have time to kill anyone. I saw Tom come around and open the door to the janitor's closet.
"
Tom
: "
I didn't see you at all.
I must have been too focused on making sure Micah was okay."
Tony
: "Brian, you went to the bathroom?
I didn't see you come through the west hallway.
"
Brian
: "
I went the long way.
I didn't want to interrupt the security guards' search."
Alpha
: "Catherine, where were you?"
Catherine
: "
...I was in the bathroom again.
"
Alpha
: "O- okay. Is it possible someone was hiding in here?" *gestures to the janitor's closet*
Tom
: "No,
there are no spaces here big enough for someone to hide.
"
Miles
: "That's it. We need to get to somewhere safe so we can figure this out. Let's go to a conference room."
Tom
: "Neither conference room is big enough to fit all twelve of us."
Miles
: "We'll split up, then. Tony, Ruby, Alder, Ren, Catherine, come with me to Conference Room 1."

Miles, Tony, Ruby, Alder, Ren, and Catherine went to Conference Room 1. Menna, Steve, Nettle, Brian, Alpha, and Tom went to Conference Room 2.


Ruby
: "Is there anything we can use to figure out who did this?"
Ren
: "There are security tapes. I should go check them."
Miles
: "I should see the tapes too. I'll come with you."

Miles and Ren left and headed toward the security room. Meanwhile, in the other conference room...


Menna
: "Where did Miles and Ren go?"
Alpha
: "Oh, they might have gone to look at the security tapes. That's a good idea."
Tom
: "There are security tapes?"
Alpha
: "
Only outside of Miles and Tony's offices.
But they might have seen someone go into the janitor's closet."
Nettle
: "We can't just sit here. We need to do something. I wonder if I can find any evidence in Ferris's office. I do know a fair amount about what he was doing."
Steve
: "Care to share it with the rest of us?"
Nettle
: "No."

Nettle moved toward the door, evidently unwilling to wait for anyone's approval.


Brian
: "Don't go alone. I'll come with you."

Nettle and Brian left together and headed toward Ferris's office. Some time passed. Neither of the parties returned, nor were any sounds heard.


Alpha
: "I'm getting nervous... I better go check on Nettle and Brian to make sure they're all right."

Before anyone can stop him, Alpha exited and walked toward the offices. Not ten seconds later, a loud sound was heard, and soon thereafter, another. Everyone rushed out of the conference rooms and begins to search. It didn't take long to find the bodies of Nettle and Brian in the hall.


Menna
: "No..."
Steve
: "What happened, Alpha?"
Alpha
: "
I didn't see. I was distracted... there were two sounds, and then I saw them both on the ground Nettle outside of Ferris's office, and Brian outside of Nik's office.
"
Tony
: "
Brian and Nettle are both dead, both from gunshots.
"
Alpha
: "
Gunshots? How? The only guns allowed up here were mine and Ren's, which are identical. And mine is right here...
"

Alder and Ruby entered from the north. Nobody had noticed they were missing.


Alder
: "We have some bad news...
I found Miles and Ren too in the security room, with the door open.
They look like they're dead, but I'm not sure.
The security tapes were all erased.
"
Ruby
: "We had a feeling that something was wrong there.
Alder found them, and he called me over. Ren's gun is gone, but her card was still there. I destroyed it.
"
Alder
: "
Miles still had his key card too. I didn't do anything with it yet.
"
Alpha
: "Ren's gun...
that must be how the gunshots happened.
"

Everyone followed Alder and Ruby to the security room, where they found the bodies of Miles and Ren.


Tom
: "
Miles is definitely dead, stabbed by the looks of it.
"
Catherine
: "
Ren was also stabbed to death.
"
Tony
: "
Miles's key card was still there as well. I destroyed it...
we can't have anyone getting into Miles's office."
Alpha
: "
Somebody must have that gun.
I need to search you all."

Alpha searched everyone else.


Alpha
: "
Nobody here has it... There's somebody else who's still alive, who only pretended to be dead.
I'm sure of it."
Steve
: "That's crazy. Pretended to be dead. That can't be true."
Alder
: "I believe him.
Alpha would never lie, and he would never say he was sure of something if it weren't true.
"
Catherine
: "So what do we do?"
Alpha
: "For now? We stay together. I don't want anyone out of my sight."
Menna
: "If someone is pretending to be dead, doesn't that mean they must have an accomplice? Someone alive who 'confirmed' that they were dead."
Ruby
: "That's a good point. So we have two potential killers on the loose."
Tom
: "And I have a feeling that they won't stop until everyone else is dead."
Alpha
: "Now at least we have some facts nailed down. Does anyone know anything about motive?"
Steve
: "Well, I know there's been some weird stuff going on here, but nothing worth killing over..."
Ruby
: "Are you sure? If anyone knows anything, we need to know now."
Tony
: "All right, I should probably say something.
Miles had some... extremely sensitive documents
, and it would be very bad if they fell into the wrong hands."
Alpha
: "How bad?"
Tony
: "It could cost thousands of lives."
Menna
: "****."
Tom
: "What do you people DO on this floor? This is darker than I imagined."
Ruby
: "Maybe Nettle was wiser than we thought... He told us this was something bigger. Not by Miles maybe, but somebody important must be behind this."
Alder
: "
Those documents are probably what the killers are after.
"
Tony
: "Tom, can you please let me into Miles's office to see if they're still there?"
Tom
: "I don't want anything to do with this, if I can help it."
Alpha
: "
Tom, do it. This is important.
"

Tom and Tony went to Miles's office, where the documents were kept. Tom unlocked the door and waited outside while Tony searched inside.


Tony
: "
The documents... they're gone.
"
Tom
: "Tony, how do we know you didn't just take them?"
Tony
: "You're welcome to search me."

Alpha quickly searched Tony.


Alpha
: "He's clean.
He doesn't have the documents.
"
Catherine
: "Who could possibly have taken them? Only Miles himself, the janitors, and the security guards could have gotten in there."
Tony
: "We need to go check their bodies. And be careful... don't go anywhere alone."
Tom
: "
I will go search Micah.
"
Catherine
: "
I'll come with you, then.
"

Tom and Catherine left to find Micah's body.


Tony
: "I don't trust anyone but Alpha here.
Alpha, come with me to search the bodies of Miles and Ren.
"

Tony and Alpha left to find Miles's and Ren's bodies. Alder, Steve, and Menna remained; nobody paid attention to where Ruby had gone. Suddenly, an extremely loud police siren echoed outside.


Steve
: "Why is that so loud?"
Menna
: "Hopefully they're coming to help us."
Alder
: *looks around* "Did you hear that?"
Menna
: "The siren?"
Alder
: "
No... I thought I heard a gunshot.
"
Steve
: "I couldn't hear anything over the noise."

Alder ran down the hallway. About fifteen seconds later, the siren stopped and Alder was heard yelling furiously. Everyone ran to where he is, finding him outside Ruby's office.


Alder
: "
I heard a shot, and the door is locked.
What happened in there?"

Alpha stepped forward and opened the door.


Alder
: "Ruby! No!
She's dead...
shot to death. I was waiting with Steve and Menna, until I heard the shot.
"
Alpha
: "You heard a shot over that noise? Did anyone else hear it?"
Tony
: "Well, there definitely was a shot.
I can confirm that Ruby died of a gunshot wound.
"
Steve
: "
I couldn't hear anything over that siren.
"
Menna
: "
Neither could I.
Did anyone find the documents?"
Tom
: "
They weren't on Micah's body.
"
Tony
: "
Nor on Miles or Ren's. And then I searched Alpha, just to make sure; he didn't have them either.
"
Alder
: "
There's nobody hiding here, either.
I can't believe this... I need to be alone. I don't trust any of you."
Catherine
: "Are you sure that's safe?"
Alder
: "
I'm going to lock myself in Conference Room 2.
This mystery killer won't be able to get me there; only a few people have access to it."
Alder left and headed toward the conference rooms.
Alpha
: "This is enough. We need more help.
The stairs are still locked due to the lockdown, but with my security clearance I think I can override the elevator.
"

The rest of them went to the elevator room. Alpha tried to call the elevator, but it didn't come.


Alpha
: "What?"
Catherine
: "
The elevator is disabled! Somebody used the company software to disable it.
"
Menna
: "
Well, there are only computers at the desks.
But it seems like anyone with a computer could have done that."
Tony
: "
Only an executive would know how to do it.
"
Steve
: "We're trapped here?"
Tony
: "Only until the lockdown ends."
Menna
: "I feel bad for Alder, and I'm very sorry about Ruby-- I know they'd known each other for a long time. But we need to stay together. He's in danger."
Steve
: "Yeah. Let's go find him."

Steve and Menna started up the west hallway. As they reached the northwest corner, they began to scream, and several loud sounds were heard. By the time the others reached the southwest corner, Steve and Menna's bodies were on the ground. Steve was in the northwest corner, Menna right in front of Ferris's office.


Alpha
: "What just happened?"
Tom
: "Somebody shot them.
I definitely heard three shots.
Maybe the shooter missed?"
Alpha
: "I don't think so...
Menna was definitely shot to death.
"
Tony
: "
So was Steve.
"
Alpha
: Let's move their bodies out of the way. I don't want to have them here.

Together, they moved Steve and Menna's bodies down the hall to the front desk.


Tom
: "Where's Alder? Is he in one of the conference rooms?"
Catherine
: "What-?
I don't see Alder in either one.
"

Alpha unlocked both conference rooms.


Alpha
: "
He's not there.
Where did he go?"
Tony
: "Alpha is right.
I don't see him anywhere.
"

They frantically began to search for him. After a few minutes, Alpha called out.


Alpha
: "
I found him in Ferris's office, under the desk, with the door locked.
"

Tom and Tony came immediately.


Tony
: "Is he dead?"
Alder
: "
I'm not dead.
I'm sorry I hid, I just didn't feel safe there."
Alpha
: "How did you get in here?"
Alder
: "
When we first found Ferris... I swiped his key.
I thought I might be able to hide in his office if things ever got awful. What happened?"
Alpha
: "Menna and Steve are dead, because they went looking for you."
Alder
: "
I saw the whole thing. Menna's body fell right in front of the door.
"
Tony
: "Where's Catherine?"
Alder
: "Oh,
I saw her go into her office, a few minutes after the shooting.
"
Alpha
: "Did you see anyone else?"
Alder
: "
No.
"
Tom
: "How could you even see her office from under your desk?"
Alder
: "
I looked through the window at the base of the door.
"
Alpha
: "So you could only see her feet?"
Alder
: "I recognized her shoes.
It was definitely her.
"
Tony
: "She should still be in there then... Is the door locked?"
Alpha
: "
Yes, it is.
"

Alpha opened the door to Catherine's office. She was in there... but not how they expected.


Alder
: "No... how is this possible?
Catherine was stabbed to death.
"
Tom
: "
Her key card is still here.
How was the door locked?"
Tony
: "
There's no one hiding here, either.
"
Alpha
: "I think I know the answer to this. You three stay right here.
If I see anyone else, I will kill them, trust me. I'm faster on the trigger than anyone else here.
"
Tony
: "Still, be careful."
Alpha
: "I will.
I won't leave any doors unlocked behind me. And nobody's quick enough to get to me with a knife without me noticing
, so I should be safe."

Alpha left promptly, heading north towards the conference rooms.


Alder
: "I hope he's all right."
Tony
: "I'm sure he will be.
If he sees anyone, there's no way they'll harm him.
"
Tom
: "We shouldn't stand here; we should go somewhere more protected. What if the killer comes back?"
Tony
: "You're right, we should move. Where?"
Alder
: "Maybe the elevator room. There's only one way in, and we could try the elevator again."

The three of them went to the elevator room. Tom tried the elevator.


Tom
: "Nope,
it still doesn't work.
"

A loud sound was heard. The remaining three anxiously ran to the other side, and when they reached the door of Tony's office, they stared in horror at Alpha, slumped on the floor.


Tony
: "
The door's locked.
"

Tony pulled a card out of his pocket and fumbled, nearly dropping it.


Tom
: "Hurry up!"

Tony finally managed to open the door.


Alder
: "It's as we feared.
Alpha is dead. He was definitely shot. His key card is right here.
"
Tony
: "Check his gun, see if he shot back. He said this wouldn't happen..."
Tom
: "
It has all six bullets. He never even shot it.
"
Tony
: "Six bullets? Let me see."

Reluctantly, Tom handed the gun to Tony.


Tony
: "
Tom is right. Fully loaded.
"
Tom
: "Put the gun down. I don't think anyone should have it right now."
Tony
: "All right." *sets the gun down*
Alder
: "We need to solve this now. Can anyone think of anything that might help us?"
Tony
: "Hold that thought."

Tony went over to the door and locked it.


Tony
: "Let's talk about what happened..."

And with this, the story is paused.


-------------------
A few things to keep in mind:
Security reports from this day prove that the people listed are the only people who were present on this floor. In other words, there is no sixteenth person.
Also, it is impossible to remove or add ammo to a gun.
Last edited by 2 718281828459 on Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #12 (isolation #4) » Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:43 am

Post by 2 718281828459 »

What do you mean you will "EGO"?


Going back on this:
Tom
(2) -> Miles, Micah
Tony
(5) -> Brian (->
Nik
), Nettle,
Ruby
, Steve
Alder
(6) -> Catherine (->
Ren
), Alpha (->
Ferris, Ruby, Menna
)

That leaves us with
7
5 possible pairs of culprits:
Tom + Miles
Tom + Micah
Tony + Brian
Tony + Nettle (probably wrong)
Tony + Steve
Alder + Catherine

Alder + Alpha

I think that Tony + Nettle is incorrect, because in Micah's death scene, Tony and Nettle were both confirmed to be away by someone else. However, I do not know if it is possible to, e.g. set up knife traps.
I would like someone else to please check my logic here
, before I assume Nettle must be innocent.

If the scum team is not Alpha+Alder, then the "dead" culprit faked their death
before
Alpha made the claim that
There's somebody else who's still alive, who only pretended to be dead.
. This means that
Steve
and
Catherine
are innocent.
Therefore, the elevator is actually disabled.

Confirmed Innocent:
Nik, Ferris, Ruby, Menna, Ren, Steve, Catherine
Last edited by 2 718281828459 on Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #13 (isolation #5) » Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:15 pm

Post by 2 718281828459 »

I have more evidence against the Tony+Nettle pair -- Tony did not kill Ferris, and Nettle probably could not have done it based on the initial story.

Tony+Brian
may
be an innocent pair, but I noticed that Ren never confirmed that she and Brian were away at the time.

All right, Alpha+Alder just looks like a suspicious combination, so let's see where this goes. (It's like RVS.)

Theory 0xA0

Alpha and Alder are the culprits.


1: Alpha lied that he and Alder were talking in the security room. They snuck out and Alpha used his security clearance to open the door, kill Ferris, and close it without being seen.

2-3: Alder stormed off as told, and killed Micah+Nik. He lied that he did not have time to kill anyone. Alpha then locked the door with his security card.

4-7: Alpha killed Miles and Ren, grabbed the gun, and used it to kill Brian and Nettle. He hid Ren's gun and made his own visible. Then Alpha lied that nobody has the gun -- Alpha himself was never searched!

8: Alpha had the gun and the documents. He killed Ruby but then he secretly met up with Alder and gave Alder the gun and the documents, so that a search of Alpha would reveal nothing.
Alder, the executive, knew how to disable the elevator.

9-10: Alder killed Steve and Menna. Do I need to explain this further? Alder lied that he was in CR2.

11: Catherine was stabbed by Alpha. The door was not locked; Alpha only pretended it was.

"12": Alpha faked his death, of course.
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Post Post #15 (isolation #6) » Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:01 am

Post by 2 718281828459 »

All right, here is my modification.

Theory 0xA1

Alpha and Alder are the culprits.


1: Alpha lied that he and Alder were talking in the security room. They snuck out and Alpha used his security clearance to open the door, kill Ferris, and close it without being seen.

2-3: Alder stormed off as told, and killed Micah+Nik. He lied that he did not have time to kill anyone. Alpha then locked the door with his security card.

4-7: Alder killed Miles and Ren, grabbed Ren's gun and Miles' documents, and gave the gun to Alpha when Alpha left to "check on" Brian and Nettle. Alpha used Ren's gun to kill Brian and Nettle, and then hid Ren's gun and made his own visible. Then Alpha pretended to search Alder and instead
gave
Alder the gun secretly during the "search".

8: Alder had the gun and the documents. He killed Ruby and then knew how to disable the elevator.

9-10: Alder killed Steve and Menna. Do I need to explain this further? Alder lied that he was in CR2.

11: Catherine was stabbed by Alpha. The door was not locked; Alpha only pretended it was.

"12": Alpha faked his death, of course.
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Post Post #17 (isolation #7) » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:46 am

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I thought there was a time where Alder was not with the others... "no one noticed they were missing"... let me make that more precise.
Theory 0xA2

Alpha and Alder are the culprits.


1: Alpha lied that he and Alder were talking in the security room. They snuck out and Alpha used his security clearance to open the door, kill Ferris, and close it without being seen.

2-3: Alder stormed off as told, and killed Micah+Nik. He lied that he did not have time to kill anyone. Alpha then locked the door with his security card.


4-7: Alder killed Miles and Ren a minute or two before he and Ruby "entered from the north" and "no one noticed they were missing". He opened the door, killed Miles and Ren, grabbed Ren's gun and Miles' documents, and gave the gun to Alpha when Alpha left to "check on" Brian and Nettle. Only after that did he call Ruby over to the security room.
Alpha used Ren's gun to kill Brian and Nettle, and then hid Ren's gun and made his own visible. Then Alpha pretended to search Alder and instead
gave
Alder the gun secretly during the "search".

8: Alder had the gun and the documents. He killed Ruby and then knew how to disable the elevator.

9-10: Alder killed Steve and Menna. Do I need to explain this further? Alder lied that he was in CR2.

11: Catherine was stabbed by Alpha. The door was not locked; Alpha only pretended it was.

"12": Alpha faked his death, of course.
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Post Post #19 (isolation #8) » Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:38 pm

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oh...

that may mean I need a complete revision of the theory... but I am not going to declare Alpha confirmed-town either way.
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Post Post #21 (isolation #9) » Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:49 pm

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Uh, the documents? Unless Tony is lying, that would be a very likely motive for the murders.

...wait...

Tony declares that
the documents
exist. Alder says in purple that
the documents
are "probably" what the killers are after. Tom confirmed Miles' death. So it
seems
like this means that Miles is not a killer (why would he want to steal his own documents?) but that word "probably" messes up that line of thinking.
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Post Post #25 (isolation #10) » Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:16 pm

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If a statement is in purple, then its literal meaning is objectively true, UNLESS the character is a culprit, in which case it may or may not be false.

There are, however, some cases where a character says in purple that something "looks" a certain way (or similar). For the
Nik was in here too. Looks like he was stabbed to death.
, the mod confirmed that Brian was claiming Nik dead.
Not sure on the others. (Personally, I would have styled it as follows: "
Nik was in here too.
Looks like
he was stabbed to death.
")

I think there were only 2 or 3 of them, though.
@mod: How should I parse Alder's
Those documents are probably what the killers are after.
:
A. Alder claims the documents exist, and the killers are after them,
B. Alder claims that
if]i\ the documents exist, then the killers are after them, or
C. Alder's claim is vague meaningless hogwash, or
D. something else?
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Post Post #35 (isolation #11) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:22 pm

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I find that
00FFFF
, when used on like 5 paragraphs, is hard to read.
Anyway, I went and highlighted in yellow anything that the red text would refute.
I am using green to track the number of bullets in Alpha's gun.
Segaco wrote:Alder and Alpha are the culprits.

Before anything, the two got into Miles' room and stole the documents. I don't know why they would want them, possibly hired by someone?

For the first murder, they claim to have been together. However, that is not the case, as Alder just lied to give Alpha an alibi. What actually happened is that Alpha went over to Ferris' office while Catherine was in the bathroom and stabbed Ferris to death. After this, he locked the door with his master keycard and left. When he reached Alder, Alpha gave him his master keycard for the next murder.
[6 bullets]

For the second murders, after Alder stormed off, he found Micah and Nik in the hallway. He led them to the closet and stabbed them both, locking the door with Alpha's master keycard afterwards when he was out.
[6 bullets]

For the third murders, Alder left the conference room with Ruby at one point. Ruby's purple of "Alder called me over" implies Ruby was not with him when he called her, so Alder just got into the security room and stabbed Ren and Miles to death. After this, he took Ren's gun, deleted the security footage and called Ruby over to the crime scene.
[6 bullets]

As this happened, for the fourth murders, Alpha got out of the conference room and quite simply shot both Brian and Nettle with his own gun. That done, he quickly threw his gun into Ruby's office.
After searching the others, Alpha lied about no one having Ren's gun, because his partner in crime had it.
[4 bullets]

At this point, secretly while everyone else was distracted/doing something else, Alder gave the master keycard back to Alpha, and Alpha whispered to Alder where he could find his gun
(because Alpha's gun has space for more bullets, while Ren's only has 6).

[4 bullets]

For the fifth murder, Alder had possibly set the sirens to play at one point, and he used this chance to say he had heard a gunshot to go over and check on Ruby. He entered the room she was in (her office), took the gun Alpha had left there, shot her, and then left. The gunshot was muffled by the sirens.
Ruby's office was not locked as Alder had said, so Alpha just opened it.
[3 bullets]

For the sixth murders, Alder separated from the group, lying when he said he was going to the conference room. When he saw his soon to be victims (Menna & Steve), he shot them both. As for the three shots, there are two possibilities:
A) He shot one of them once and the other twice.
B) He missed one of the shots.
[0 bullets]

After this, he quickly went on and hid in the room closest to him: Catherine's.
While everyone searched for him, Catherine entered her office and found him. Alder did not spare her and quickly stabbed her to death.
Alpha eventually found him in the room with the corpse, and Alder gave him the two guns: Ren's fully loaded gun and Alpha's own gun.
Alpha lied about finding Alder in Ferris' office.

[0 bullets]

Finally, at the end, Alpha went over to Tony's office. There, he locked the room from the inside, shot his own gun to the ceiling and hid it in the room.
After this, he laid down on the floor and feigned death. When Alder arrived, he lied about Alpha having been shot and about him being dead. The gun Tom and Tony checked was Ren's, which had not been used at any point, so no contradictions were made.
...does
that
red dispute Segaco's theory either??
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Post Post #39 (isolation #12) » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:23 pm

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I wonder if it is possible for someone to rig a contraption that will knock over furniture on demand.
If I ever went out to kill a bunch of people like this, I might well just do that to make a loud sound without me being in the room, so I would have an alibi.

Look through the other 6 "gunshots". See which ones could have been actually falling furniture.
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Post Post #43 (isolation #13) » Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:21 am

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Keep in mind that Steve and Catherine are confirmed town because if they were culprits, Alpha would have truthfully said that someone had
already
faked their death. Steve and Catherine died after Alpha made that claim.

So does that mean that the culprit team is
not
Alpha+Alder??
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Post Post #44 (isolation #14) » Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:04 am

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Theory time! Where are we? I think this is 0xA7. This is a very rough version of the theory that I hope to improve on later so I can win the game.

To me, it would seem like the president of a company would count as an executive and be able to disable the elevator. I think that is the "impossible" thing that is actually possible. Segaco even said that that pair could do the murders.
Theory 0xA7
Tom and Miles are the culprits.
Inventory: Tom's card opens every door. Miles' opens his office and the conference room.

Ferris: Miles lied that he was in his office. At 10:27, he hid in Ferris' office and stabbed his first victim. Then he exited without being seen, possibly pretending that he had to go to the bathroom.

Brian+Nik: These are easy. Tom's story, of course, is mostly misdirection. He somehow convinced them to clean that closet, and then stabbed both and locked the door.

Ren, Nettle, and Ferris: So Miles stabbed Ren, took the gun, and faked his death. Then Miles shot the others from a distance. Meanwhile, Tom stole the documents and unlocked Ruby's door. Tom left his master key card in there for Miles to pick up.

Ruby: Miles hid in Ruby's office. Then he shot Ruby, grabbed the master key, and snuck out of there to the desk while the other still-alive people were distracted by Ruby's death. Miles disabled the elevators.

Steve and Menna: Miles shot twice. Tom lied that there was a third shot.

Catherine: Miles, being the ultra-stealthy person that he is, evaded being spotted again, killed Catherine, and locked the door.

Alpha: Miles needed a place to hide. So he hid in Tony's office, and (un)luckily, Alpha went there (perhaps searching the room) but Miles shot Alpha before Alpha could have even seen Miles. That room never even got searched.
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Post Post #51 (isolation #15) » Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:05 pm

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In the first one, we pretty much had the culprits nailed down instantly, because
Spoiler: of this
Yarn was confirmed innocent by both Zeus
and
Ryax, and her being innocent plus 3 confirmed innocents from the narration caused a chain reaction that cleared basically everyone except Ryax, William, Xerxes, and Fracie. That was very easy to work with.

Instead, we were left here with 8 possible suspects, and those seemed like the most talkative 8 in the game. (Unlike how
Jezz, Tech, Yarn, Zeus, and Fen
purpled a lot of useful information.)

Maybe you could obfuscate the clarifications a bit so that it would take some work to figure out the Final Answer.

Motive: Miles got greedy and wanted to do something evil with the documents (I cannot say what because I have no idea what the documents even are...) and realized that the rest of the company would probably object and maybe overthrow him, so he bribed an accomplice and killed everyone so he could end "thousands of lives".

(Is there a way that Tom could have gotten a hold of the gun so Ruby could be shot?)
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Post Post #52 (isolation #16) » Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:39 pm

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Not sure
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Post Post #53 (isolation #17) » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:55 pm

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Going out on a limb here... (this is almost certainly going to fail)

Tom and Miles are the culprits.

Before anything, the two got into Miles' room and took the documents away for their Grand Evil Scheme. They realized that they needed to kill everyone so that there would not be an uprising. After this, Tom gave Miles his master keycard.

For the first murder, Miles entered Ferris' office while Catherine was in the bathroom and stabbed him to death. When he was done, he left and locked the door with Tom's keycard.

For the second murders, while Nik and Micah were alone, he got them into the closet and killed them both. Tom took Micah's master keycard, and when the body was found he lied when he said the keycard was there and was going to destroy it. He kept the keycard for himself.

For the third and fourth series of murders, Miles used the excuse of going with Ren to the security room to check the tapes to get her all alone. When they got there, he killed her and stole her gun.
After this, he left the room, went south, then west, and in the south-west corner he shot Brian and Nettle from the distance. Alpha was spared because he was not in Miles' sight. Knowing people would arrive soon, he went back to the security room the same way he came,
tossed the gun near or just inside his office
, deleted the tapes, hid Micah's card key somewhere in the room and faked his death.
Tom lied when he said Miles was dead. When Tony searched for The Documents, Tom grabbed the gun. (Tom probably misdirected Tony to search the desk first, and grabbed the gun when Tony was turned the other way.)

For the fifth murders, Tom used his gun to shoot Ruby while Catherine was distracted. Meanwhile, Miles disabled the elevator as everyone else gathered in Ruby's office. After this, he hid somewhere.

For the sixth murders, Miles just left his hiding spot, shot Steve and Menna when he saw them and walked away... until he found Catherine in the hallway. He stabbed her several times, and since she was close to her office she went in there and locked the door from the inside before dying.
Tom lied when he said he heard three shots. Only two happened.

As fast as he could, Miles went over to Tony's office and hid there. When Alpha entered, possibly suspecting Tony had hidden the documents in there, he locked the door from the inside. Seeing he had no choice, Miles shot Alpha from his hiding spot, using his last bullet.

Tony apparently knows what's going on at the end and locks the door from the inside so the culprit/s cannot escape.
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Post Post #56 (isolation #18) » Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:19 am

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I would like to know how you went from it being either Tom+Miles or Alpha+Alder to it being Tony+Brian.
In fact, I was just about to declare Tony confirmed innocent and look at what became confirmed fact.

You mean that
Tony lied when he said
Brian
was dead
, no?

OK, so I see the "impossible" act -- stealing Micah's key and using it to unlock all the doors. Nice. I think you have a winner. Which means I have to get my puzzle up and running quickly.
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Post Post #64 (isolation #19) » Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:43 am

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The thing I hate most about this is waiting.
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Post Post #68 (isolation #20) » Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:55 pm

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In post 55, Segaco wrote:
Tony and Brian are the culprits.
For the fifth murders, as Brian left his hiding spot, he found Menna and Steve in the hallway. He shot them both, missing once or shooting one of them twice. After this he, of course, left to his hiding spot... or at least he tried to. He was found out by Catherine in the hallway as everyone searched for Alder, so he just stabbed her. Catherine, about to die, ran to her office and locked the door from the inside before dying.
He was found out by Catherine in the hallway as everyone searched for Alder, so he just stabbed her and dragged her body into her office. She locked the door after regaining consciousness for a few seconds and then she died.


I am pretty sure something here is impossible but given the large number of patches made to 55's theory, I am kind of getting lost.
It may soon be time for Segaco to add them all into the big theory. That, or I could do that.
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Post Post #75 (isolation #21) » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:43 am

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Oh wow.

1. Why is it that everyone died the first time but there were 2 survivors here?
2. Is this story based on anything in particular? What were "the documents"?
3. How did you go about creating this? I would probably fail miserably, which is why I decided instead to do my puzzle based on just liars and truth-tellers instead of a story.

JDGA
: "The "one correct solution and only adding reds when necessary" is true to the source material of Umineko, incidentally. (In that it was actually suggested
the GM could change the "correct" solution on the fly as long as they didn't contradict themselves with the red to force the players to keep guessing
)"
2.718
: "But would the players not realize something was up?
They could realize that the actual solution is far more obscure and specific than some of the players' solutions
, no?"
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Post Post #79 (isolation #22) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:48 am

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I would like someone other than myself to create the third riddle. (Perhaps we should try leveling up to 5 survivors at the pause...)
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Post Post #80 (isolation #23) » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:57 am

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2.718
: "hellooooooo... helllllooooooo... anyone heeeeere...."
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