SUPP 2017 MAFIA: COMPLETE

[guacamole]

I could use a filter for what's most important.

[guacamole]

I think it might help me to have a list of claims so I don't spend the next 2 days iso diving and not finding them all. Hopefully someone is keeping a list?

[guacamole]

No love on getting cliff notes...

[guacamole]

That type of fuzziness can be expected from that player.

[guacamole]

Yes I've played with them before. Fuzziness in the form of trying to explain their role using an analogy that often doesn't actually mean what they think it means.
In this instance a suicide bomber is a little like a PGO, if you ignore the suicide part.

[guacamole]

Hey guac, what do you make of the fact that Shepard says he wanted to die but didn't. Do you think he would willingly desire death in this game? Or do you think maybe he's lying about wanting to die because he knew he'd survive the kill attempts?

Shepard would want to use the ability, assuming it's compatible with wincon. If using the ability equates to dying, then yes.
That does assume that the claim is true though. I haven't read anywhere near enough to know either way.

What I'm commenting on is the likelihood that the claim is "correct" but stated badly in a way which makes it seem "incorrect". This player is likely to mangle things, either intentionally to avoid "quoting the mod" or to "keep his pants at least partly on", or unintentionally.

[guacamole]

This knee jerk with such bizarre accusations and reads is just too much.

Knee jerk reactions are coin of the realm for this particular player.

I want to make myself clear though, by no means do I call it AI. They're not town for it. Non-action based reads are the best way to figure them out.

[guacamole]

Re: cop claims being self-sorting -- agreed.

[guacamole]

I suspect that cshep isn't revealing a same alignment / different alignment / higher or lower ranking modifier.
Nobody has bothered to cliff note me the actual claims and I haven't had adequate time to find them all.

[guacamole]

Vax did you claim any target n1? Did punreader?
Shepard, care to claim anything more?
I think i’ve made a little progress on the logic puzzle.
Reading more...

[guacamole]

According to punreaders rating calc in post 1985 or so, pun cant shoot shep.
On iso read im reading punreader as town.
Occams says vax is town. No reason to lie about trying to vig someone who lived. Though ill pit a tinfoil stake in the ground and say going apeshit over the mention of a sk is pretty suspicious.

[guacamole]

@theworst can you explain what happened with pun/cshep/myself last night?

CShep is higher ranked than Pun so Pun's action had no effect. Remove Pun from the equation and recalculate.

[guacamole]

Can we lynch Fire Assassin? I read that iso and don't think it's coming from town.

[guacamole]

Vaxkiller I'd think you were scum trying desperately to lynch a townie they can't safely kill, if it weren't so unlikely that you'd gamble as scum on being lynched if it's a town flip.

[guacamole]

nvm

Guacamole do you understand all the mechanical role stuff right now

Pretty much. The one i think is least likely to be lying is shep. Whether shep is correct about anything is uncertain. I dont consider any of the “cleared” results to be Reliable enough to be conf. Needs flips to resolve.

[guacamole]

If shep is town, >90% likely they think its protown to withhold some details.

[guacamole]

Has it been discussed where the 2nd n2 death came from?

[guacamole]

I'm confused too.

[guacamole]

Eh, don't remember much after the weekend. I think the game needs some vote activity.
VOTE: Shoshin

[guacamole]

I'd add Guac to the mix, since he's also defending Shepard for absurd reasons.

Incorrect. I've been saying Shepard's insistence on questionable mechanics to the point of obsession is a playstyle tell. There's a big difference between that and defending.

[guacamole]

You're totally misunderstanding. I don't townread Shepard.

[guacamole]

You're totally misunderstanding. I don't townread Shepard.

Pedit: lol

[guacamole]

wtf double post?

[guacamole]

I don't like this browser, you can't hold down the back button to go back several pages.

[guacamole]

Shoshin is cherry picking posts trying to find something that sticks. I see this as a scum move -- town take the totality and determine alignment from it, not assuming an alignment and finding something to fit.

[guacamole]

Shoshin is cherry picking posts trying to find something that sticks. I see this as a scum move -- town take the totality and determine alignment from it, not assuming an alignment and finding something to fit.

I reread everything, from the first post to last. If anyone is considering the "totality" of this game it's me. This is a very bad post from guac.

You certainly aren’t posting about the totality.

[guacamole]

@pun how big is this full claim you got in a msg from the worst?

[guacamole]

I got news for you.
The question to Punreader was asked for a specific reason.

[guacamole]

I hate to break it to you all who are trying to mislynch the worst, but guacamole connected the worst and I together today and he roleclaimed in his message to me well before his roleclaim out here.

that was meant to be our secret :c

Is pun lying, or both of you?

[guacamole]

So the funny thing is, I didn't target anyone last night.

Someone else has a similar role?
TW and punreader have some other kind of communication?
punreader was testing me and TW decided to go along?
punreader and TW are both lying?

[guacamole]

I even triple checked my outgoing PMs to see if I had forgotten anything.
And I checked the role PM to verify it isn't listed as compulsive.

[guacamole]

Yes, and punreader claimed I connected you two.

[guacamole]

What day were you told this?

[guacamole]

N3 I targeted punreader and Maria. If that doesn't take effect until D4 and the messages pass N4, then the N3 targeting of Maria was redirected onto TW.

[guacamole]

Like I said, I did not target anyone last night.

Punreader, please clarify further -- did you receive this the beginning of D4 or D5? The date you gave (July 7) doesn't match either one.
I connected punreader and

Maria

N3

.

Someone asked me why I'd target punreader at all -- I have a townread there and that hasn't changed. If it weren't a townread I'd be going ballistic trying to lynch the liar.

[guacamole]

Confirm that N2 MWNN submitted Pun & Dunn.

[guacamole]

shooting town is a bad idea.

[guacamole]

I find it weird that two every-night visitors would both skip N1, and that Guac would skip both N1 and N4. I just don't see how a town-aligned connector doesn't use his ability every night. And I have 0 clues as to why a town-aligned DV would not send a cat N1. In what world does a cat fruit vendor not vend cat fruit N1?

I haven't said who screen targeted N1, but screen did target. Screen's targets were Taly and the Worst. Other people have already said this so I didn't think it was necessary to repeat it.

Not sending something N4 was more a function of RL interference than it was actively trying to not send.

[guacamole]

I'm a little thrown as to why guac is lying about his action last night though....

Absolutely not lying here. I did not send a PM of any kind to this mod since before the start of D4 when I asked if everything was OK.
I don't know where this connection could have come from. Based on that I wonder if remaining scum have a role stealing ability, or the ability to send a fake connection message.

[guacamole]

You're gonna need to come up with a valid reason for scum to claim not to have done the action that two people claim to have received.
Without doing that, calling me scum is gonna come up short with the better thinkers in the thread.

[guacamole]

VOTE: Espeonage

[guacamole]

I have been very busy at work. I'm very aware that the lack of activity makes me look bad, but I'm not going spout a bunch of shallow junk that does nothing but potentially hurt town.

[guacamole]

Actually, I'll amend that. I do have some things that I've been thinking that are worth posting. I'd rather be able to link some evidence, but might as well do what I can without links. These are in the order I'm thinking of people not necessarily in order of the actual read.

Punreader - towny looking but I understand the potential for SK claiming vig.
Vaxkiller - there was a bunch of back and forth with Shepard on the vig attempt there failing. Has there been a successful vig claimed? Could that have been distancing? Still feels townish more than scum.

Shoshin - I really don't like the tendency to focus solely on digging up dirt (at least in my opinion), vs. a more balanced approach. Doing it on everyone feels like scum shopping for a plausible mislynch. All that said, there isn't really any strong reason that it's more likely to be scum shopping for mislynches than it is for town to be unsure who the scum are and trying to solve. I'd want to see if there is anyone Shoshin isn't digging on, or is digging up real dirt and choosing to ignore. I'm susceptible to bias toward thinking people pushing me are scum. I really want to call it scum. But I can't really do that, gotta say this read is a firm

don't know

.

Krazy - I've seen a role with some superficial similarity that was town. The usage seems relatively town motivated.

DeasVail - Definitely not cleared by Krazy's action. Not memorable enough to be able to give a shoot from the hip kind of read.

Espeonage - I definitely buy into the interactions with Fire being s/s. Honestly can't say I've read enough for a strong independent read but I'm willing to sheep here -- obviously since that's what i'm doing.

The Worst - I see some of the same shopping for mislynch behavior that I mentioned in Shoshin. I'm less confident about the town motivation angle here.

[guacamole]

Nice pic.

Still working hard. Still following along. Still not seeing much movement.

[guacamole]

Torn between knowing we shouldn't read anything into that, and suspecting we should.

[guacamole]

VOTE: the worst

[guacamole]

Errant, don't be too hard on yourself. I thought you did fine.