SUPP 2017 MAFIA: COMPLETE

[DeasVail]

Howdy Meowdy Dowdy everyone!

Everything’s so serious already! But that’s okay. You’re all massive cuties either way

[DeasVail]

Crikey mate

You’re a whopper if I ever saw one.

[DeasVail]

I'll buy a vowel please!

[DeasVail]

I've also heard Chara is like really really towny as town fwiw

this is true.

i'm giving Brawl my 10 and Deas's opening was super scum for no other reason than the "i want to be liked here" vibe.

Being liked is nice though

And I want to make things fun because too often mafia gets super intense and serious and I don't want to be about that here!

[DeasVail]

Fire, I am torn.

I don't know whether to interpret your opening as town wanting to get stuck into the game and promote a scumhunting vibe, or whether to interpret it as scum trying hard to look town by doing "work" when everyone else was just joking around.

[DeasVail]

No, not really. It's a fine starting point of discussion regardless of alignment.

I always find it a bit strange when someone disagrees with a townread on them.

[DeasVail]

The confidence in the fact that the reasoning is flawed is the strange part. Because if we have complete knowledge in what we would and wouldn't do as town vs. scum, and how we would and wouldn't act, then as mafia we'd be able to perfectly replicate how we would act as town, leaving the whole notion of scumhunting pointless.

But I'm getting carried away.

I think your response is fair. But I don't particularly like it from an alignment perspective.

[DeasVail]

Fire, I am torn.

I don't know whether to interpret your opening as town wanting to get stuck into the game and promote a scumhunting vibe, or whether to interpret it as scum trying hard to look town by doing "work" when everyone else was just joking around.

Its neither.
I am not scumhunting for the first thing, I am townhunting. Which is focused on taking people out of the lynch pool and focus on ensuring that these people are highest degree of accuracy.

I also have an attitude of trying to always be "into" the game for when I get into games. So doing anything for appearances is not something I care about.

I don't like this analysis of "looking like doing work", but I have found I get this almost any game I play. So it can be town but is really lazy interpretations of actions.

I think you're probably town from your subsequent posting, don't worry.

[DeasVail]

Why do you scumread him?

[DeasVail]

I liked the way that he presented his thoughts in 62 and I like the combination of his in-game townhunting approach while also engaging in non-game related conversation.

Just initial thoughts for me and not a lock by any means, but I'm interested in why Espe would scumread him.

[DeasVail]

Its neither.
I am not scumhunting for the first thing, I am townhunting. Which is focused on taking people out of the lynch pool and focus on ensuring that these people are highest degree of accuracy.

The indignant approach here was also pretty townie imo

[DeasVail]

But yeah really, where's your head at?

Hey Taly. My reads are still a work in process right now and so it's going to be a little while before I share general thoughts. If you have anything specific you'd like to ask me about though, I'd be very happy to answer.

[DeasVail]

Taly, as much as I think you’re most likely town here, I don’t have stances to make beyond what I’ve already made here and I feel that expecting more stance-wise 5-6 pages in is unrealistic.

[DeasVail]

There is one thought process going on that I have glimpsed and don't understand. At least one person has mentioned that Chara is fairly obviously town as town, and people have also mentioned having a townread on Chara, but I have not seen anything from Chara that would seem to justify that.

[DeasVail]

I'm not sure at this stage whether to think that it's necessarily scummy to townread Chara, but both Fire Assassin and Taly have reads on Chara that I struggle to understand.

[DeasVail]

I think it's time for me to be a little less passive in how I approach things here.

The game is not moving very fast, which I must admit the lazy part of me appreciates because there is not as much I need to read, but I also really don't have the reads on people that I'd want to have at this point in the game.

So I'm going to give my thoughts on various things and we'll see how that goes.

-

I've lost interest somewhat in the discussion surrounding Punreader's claim. When it comes to role-related factors in determining their alignment, I think that will be better answered later. And while I was initially unsure of them based on their initial response to me, I am satisfied enough with their latest post to not really focus much more there right now.

I also have a question for MariaR and Dunnstral:

Do you believe that ActionDan's intention in pointing out 105 was to make Screenplay look bad?

---

Players who I townread in some form:

Espeonage
Dunnstral
Punreader
Shoshin
Fire Assassin
Taly

Players who have either not posted enough for me to get a read, or what they have posted does not direct me in either alignment direction:

MariaR
ActionDan
Pine
ReubenWasFine
Chara
Screenplay
Vaxkiller
PenguinPower
NicoRobin

(too many people here!)

Players that I am becoming suspicious of include:

- TehBrawlGuy

I am not ready to share the specifics of my thoughts here yet, but I am concerned!

(Okay it only ended up being one person. Well there we go!)

--

And The Worst is a special read in that I initially had him in the suspicious section and then in the town section and now I...

now I...

Meow!

Ugh sorry. Now I...

Meow meow meow meow!

Purrrrrrrrr

Meow Meow Meow!

[DeasVail]

[DeasVail]

Espeonage
Dunnstral

Is this based on their role claims or behaviors?

My reads are unrelated to the claims.

[DeasVail]

In post 177, Srceenplay wrote:
So scum is
Deasvail
The worst
Dan/Shoshin

Sounds good.


:/ Can you explain? Because you got townreads in here, and you also got iffy people in here.

DV opened the game feeling scumy. I’m not the only one to pick up on it either. Soon after their tone changes imo.
I don’t like it. They are trying to blend in more.

The worst. They had some interactions with someone on this list. Do remember what or who. (Maybe DV and Shoshin) It felt odd/fake. Maybe look back after my vacation. Also iirc the the last time the worst didn’t town read me he was scum.

Dan tried forcing a post of mine as a scum claim and Shoshin postering.


That’s all off of memory.

Hey screenplay,

Why am I scum for starting the game off in a friendly manner and then later getting more serious?

Why does the fact that other people suspect me justify your own suspicion?

[DeasVail]

In regards to the whole pseudolynch thing, I’m actually not that big on the idea. I don’t know which approach is more pro-town but in a game day that has a different lynch mechanic, I think it’s kind of boring to try and make it a normal day of mafia. Let’s go with this interesting and suspenseful Day 1 mechanic imo!

Also I kind of like the idea of people doing their secret ballot thing and then being held accountable afterwards.

Buttt, if all you cool cats want to do things the traditional way I’ll play along I guess

With ever so slight reluctance!

[DeasVail]

I guess my rationale is that the traditional voting and lynching style of mafia is going to be much more familiar to scum, and this they will be able to more comfortably navigate it.

Whereas the SUPP mechanic is a lot less familiar and so I think scum won’t be as confident in not getting caught out by it. I’m thinking about the long game here.

[DeasVail]

Sup DV?

Just got back to Sydney from Lithgow for the weekend! (I don’t know where in Aus you’re from so this could be meaningless). And I have the long weekend off which is really nice

What about you?

[DeasVail]

Before I get to replies, is ANYONE on the same page in this game?

How do you expect people to respond to this?

[DeasVail]

I have things to talk about but it will have to be tomorrow

[DeasVail]

Change of plan. The time is actually now! (Plans to do something else ended up falling through)

First, regarding TehBrawlGuy:

I still think he's scum. His posting since I last posted has not done anything to quell my suspicion.

This is the problem.

His posts are a particular style of sounding busy without actually offering much insight nor demonstrating much evidence of engagement with the goal of finding scum. (or finding town, or whatever a town-oriented goal in this game would be!)

His first two posts, 34 and 36 are joke posts, which is totally fine. I don't have any issue with these.

37 is the first questionable post, but still, not totally convincing of scum or anything. I'm not sure if town would necessarily have any reason to expect such a post to yield any actual results. So, it

could

be a scum attempt at looking like they care when they actually don't. BUT, I could also see town possibly posting it anyway. So that by itself is not much.

60 is an example of sounding "helpful" without actually offering much of substance. I think it, as a post without much further thought on the game, is more likely to come from scum.
78 follows this theme, and I will get back to the "TehBrawl and the pseudolynch" saga later.

My biggest reason for suspecting him in the early stage of the game, however, was 142. And I agree with the point that ActionDan made in 154.

2)

TehBrawlGuy

, where's your head at? D: You posted but I don't know what to conclude from it.

disagree that pun's claim should be viewed as towny - BP is a very easy falseclaim to make, especially conditional where nobody can shoot safely to check it. I still read him as Town on tone, but I think giving him townpoints for the claim is bad logic.

espeonage town tone

fire scums

maria town for 126/127

@dunn and espeonage: do you just need him to be higher/lower than an average, or a certain mark? because we as a town could give him all 0s or all 10s to guarantee one of you gets the power

Taly asks TehBrawl where his head is at. He gives a vague noncomittal opinion on punreader which was the hot topic of the moment (not scummy in and of itself but certainly well within what I would expect from scum)
And then a few reads.

Then he asks the above question of dunnstral and espe. And this question is really sus! It gives off the vibe of trying to be helpful and work things out, but is it really realistic for town to structure their voting around some conflicting power role thing. It's pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. But it's totally something scum would ask to look like they are TOWN and trying to HELP THE TOWN SUCCEED WOO!

The entire post gives me the impression of scum trying to look like they care, but I believe the content reveals a lack of actually caring about scumhunting/townhunting/the town succeeding.

---

Brawl explains his reasons for promoting pseudolynches in 211, but it doesn't make all that much sense.

"I'd bet dollars to donuts Scum rank people weirdly to fuck with the numbers behind the scenes"

How can scum fuck with the numbers if they don't know what the numbers are? He mentions scum either trying to save a team-mate or save mislynch bait. But using both as reasons doesn't make sense either. If scum "fuck with the numbers" in order to save mislynch bait, then that puts themselves at greater risk.

I'm not totally against the pseudolynch idea, because sure, it'd work okay I guess. I just think it's boring and loses the potential of catching scum out by playing a game format that they are unfamiliar with. But TehBrawl's posts have a conspiracy theory vibe to them that I think comes from scum.

Not only this, but in 285, he implies that those who disagree with the pseudolynch idea are scum because pseudolynching is pro-town because he said so and isn't listening to what other people might have to say about it.

I also have an issue with him saying that PP's post means PP v Taly is not TvT. It only gives indication of PP's alignment, except in the case that PP is scum, in which case it may give insight into Taly's alignment. But that is not what TehBrawl is saying, he's saying that PP's post means one of PP/Taly is scum, which doesn't make sense! It's just empty "sounds helpful" posting that is what TehBrawl has been doing all game.

[DeasVail]

okay free time ends now. Other posts later.

[DeasVail]

Yeaaahhhh, I've lost my scumread on TehBrawlGuy.

Sorry Brawly

[DeasVail]

How can I convince you all that Espeonage is scum and needs 0s?
Ill take a 0 if thats what it takes.

????

Why the last line?

[DeasVail]

With so many people in thread acting so indifferent to how the game day plays out, the fact that you at least appear to care quite a bit is enough for me to reconsider my read on you. I don't think you're explicitly a townread for me right now, because I do have ongoing concerns, but reading your more recent posts made it difficult for me to maintain my previous passion for scumreading you.

[DeasVail]

Pardon the mistake.
I forgot to bump Taly up a tier. Apologies.

ACTUAL list:

TOWNIE TENS:

Chara

EAGER EIGHTS:

Taly
Dunnstral
ActionDan

SOLID SIXES:

Shoshin
MariaR
Espeonage

FINICKY FIVES:

the worst
Fire Assassin
DeasVail
Vaxkiller

UNFORTUNATE FOURS:

NicoRobin
ReubenWasFine

IN-BETWEEN THREES:

Srceenplay

TERRIBLE TWOS:

TehBrawlGuy
PenguinPower

ZOMBIFY THESE ZEROES:

Pine/TwoInAMillion

Hi Punreader. This reads list was pretty similar to where I was at that point in the game. Main exceptions are Chara's high placement (they're probably only a weak townread for me right now) and Pine being so low. So I'd be pretty interested in explanations of those.

[DeasVail]

Pardon the mistake.
I forgot to bump Taly up a tier. Apologies.

ACTUAL list:

TOWNIE TENS:

Chara

EAGER EIGHTS:

Taly
Dunnstral
ActionDan

SOLID SIXES:

Shoshin
MariaR
Espeonage

FINICKY FIVES:

the worst
Fire Assassin
DeasVail
Vaxkiller

UNFORTUNATE FOURS:

NicoRobin
ReubenWasFine

IN-BETWEEN THREES:

Srceenplay

TERRIBLE TWOS:

TehBrawlGuy
PenguinPower

ZOMBIFY THESE ZEROES:

Pine/TwoInAMillion

Hi Punreader. This reads list was pretty similar to where I was at that point in the game. Main exceptions are Chara's high placement (they're probably only a weak townread for me right now) and Pine being so low. So I'd be pretty interested in explanations of those.

@dv
So you agree with Nico, Reuben, fire, Espeonage all being higher than me?
You’re ok with being in the middle of the pack? I would assume a null read.


This feels like fake engagement to me but our are more than welcome to try and convince me otherwise.

The reads list isn’t exactly the same as mine was but the general gist is similar. As for your questions though, not anymore (I have come to think you may be town) and yes.

Why should I not be okay with being middle of the pack?

[DeasVail]

I am very sorry for my lack of activity over the long weekend. I was hoping to have more time, but alas I have not! I will have a lot more during the week and am hoping to sink my claws into this again then!

Meow!

[DeasVail]

Okay I'm here!

That actually gives us a situation where dissonance is actually good for us.

Because if everyone has a solid mix other than some universal reads given 0s. We end up with it very likely those two die. I am however still worried about a vote swapper or set one players average to five.

:/ need to think.

Whoa It's like I said this yet only now people understand

where did you say any of this?

this is exactly why I'm lying about my rankings as I said because of vote swappers etc
I doubt they can just swap vote totals cause that's outright op but I do think scum have stuff like Make player X's 10 a 0 or 0 a 10 to mess with numbers

While I would prefer not to be explicit about what points I will assign, because I don't want to give scum too much information going in to the ranking, I also believe that stuff like "make X's 10 a 0" would be more overpowered for scum than what is realistic in this set-up. Scum have a significant enough influence merely by being able to assign points. I do have plans as to how I will go about Day 2 in gaining as much information as I can out of the SUPP poll, but I'm not super confident in achieving scum deaths from the poll itself.

--

I do not have an opinion either way really on whether to end the day early or not.

[DeasVail]

The following people are some form of townread for me. No indication is made as to the strength of townread:

Taly
Punreader
Dunnstral
Nahdia
the worst
Shoshin
Chara
Screenplay

--

Everyone else I either weakly suspect, am conflicted on, or is just not very remarkable at the moment.

No one really jumps out at me as a scum suspect right now, but honestly given the format of the day I'm kind of okay with that. Having someone in particular die is very difficult to achieve, and more difficult than in a regular game day. I believe there is a role for read-building Day 1, which is why I'm not passionately advocating an early end of day. However, I also believe that there will be great scumhunting potential on Day 2, regardless of who dies overnight., which is why I'm not totally against it.

[DeasVail]

The last couple of real-life days have been weird for me in terms of how I feel about this game.

I guess I'm kind of bored more than anything else.

I feel like I should be asking people questions in order to develop reads or whatnot, but I also feel like most stuff at the moment is not incredibly alignment-relevant.

My reads remain the same except TBG can probably go back to a weak town spot.

I'll just go back to meowing.

Meow! Meow meow meow!

MEOW MEOW MEOW!

Purrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[DeasVail]

I want the people who I don't townread right now to show up so I can talk to them about stuff.

Like vegetables! Vegetables are awesome.

[DeasVail]

hmm as a vegetarian I can offer a lot of onions on this subject

!!!!

I like certain meat dishes too much to give them up unfortunately.

I'm hopeless at cooking meat unless it's like spag bol or something so most of what I cook is vegetarian. (but also Indian and Italian food which is most of what I cook is more delicious when vegetarian so it kind of works out!)

[DeasVail]

by Italian I really mean pizza and pasta and nothing else and there are so many good veg pizza toppings!

[DeasVail]

I'm slowly getting over my in-game frustration right now guys...

I find that it's really tempting to take the game super seriously and sometimes I need to take a step back and just take a more relaxed approach to things.

[DeasVail]

For what it's worth, I think PP is probably scum, and I think pun is probably town. I'm more confident in pun being town than I am in PP being scum, but neither read is a lock for me.

[DeasVail]

Spoiler: My Rankings

10 - Taly
10 - Punreader
10 - DeasVail
9 - the worst
8 - Shoshin
7 - Screenplay
6 - Chara
6 - Vaxkiller
5 - Nahdia
5 - Fire Assassin
4 - Pine
4 - Dunnstral
3 - TehBrawlGuy
2 - Espeonage
1 - Lovebird
0 - NicoRobin
0 - MariaR
0 - PenguinPower

But I'm not really happy with these as a reflection of my reads, and I regret having Lovebird and NicoRobin so low, but obviously that's affected by having the information that they are town so idk.

Anyway, I want rankings from everyone and ideally a bit of insight into your thought process behind the rankings.

From re-reading overnight, I'm back to being suspicious of the worst. MariaR remains a pretty big suspect for me, along with Espeonage. I also don't reallllly know what to think of PenguinPower but my suspicion was scum.

[DeasVail]

OK w/e
10 - the worst
10 - Taly
10 - Chara
9 - Espeonage
8 - MariaR
7 - Nahdia
6 - TehBrawlGuy
6 - DeasVail
5 - Punreader
5 - PenguinPower
4 - Vaxkiller
4 - Pine
3 - Shoshin
2 - Dunnstral
1 - Fire Assassin
0 - Srceenplay
0 - ReubenWasFine
0 - NicoRobin

I would like to know why Maria and Espeonage were so high on your list

[DeasVail]

You haven't talked much about Espe from what I can see, and I would like an idea of why you feel that Maria's posts are coming from town rather than scum.

[DeasVail]

For now I'm going to go with:

VOTE: Espeonage

actually.

I'll be back later

[DeasVail]

Where were you?

I think Dunn is town and his question is an example of that imo

[DeasVail]

The Worst, I find the timing of the 921 vote on Vaxkiller a bit strange. Do you believe that his posting up to that point was more likely to come from scum, and if so, why?

OK maybe I was onto something when I gave

Vax

a 0

Again, I'm not really as convinced by Vax being scum from their posts as other people are? Do you have experience with vax that makes you think this?

DV called Esp town yesterday, right? I'd be curious to hear about where the townread came from and why he changed his mind, but otherwise the votes on Esp are fine. I haven't liked Esp's posting today and I don't mind seeing pressure there.

Hi Shoshin. I had a townread on Espe early Day 1 (see 182, but by the time of 652, my townread had disappeared and I ranked him quite low on my rankings list due to considering everyone ranked above him more likely to be town. There wasn't anything that I considered "scummy" as such from Day 1. However, the main reasons for my vote on him Day 2 actually stemmed from his Day 2 posting. I felt that 832 was over-cautious for Espe. I feel like Espe-town in that scenario would just post his rankings if he wanted to, or not post his rankings yet if he didn't want to, but the question felt forced to me. I also didn't like 841 and I didn't like the pre-emptive answer in 853.

--

I also don't understand people being confused about Fire not outing the guilty right away. I definitely feel it was valuable to receive everyone's rankings and be able to gauge responses to the beginning of the Espe wagon.

But yeah, I'm cool with Espe being lynched now.

[DeasVail]

MEOW!

[DeasVail]

if so, why?

It would be great to have more on this if possible. As in what about his posting led you to thinking scum. My main aim is to get more insight into your thought process, because I thought as I was reading Vax's posts that they were pretty town, but were the sort of posts that would be easy to latch onto (for either scum or town).

[DeasVail]

Please answer my question first.

[DeasVail]

okay fair enough, sorry for being a bit pushy about it

Vax's posting Day 2 has been pretty all-over-the-place with much less awareness of the game, and much less self-awareness, than I would expect from scum, who generally have a higher than usual amount of both of those things. Stuff like getting mad about about how his strong townread Pine died is ridiculous, I agree, but town are often going to have a high opinion about their own reads and in some cases even believe that their reads should be magically adopted by the other players. So getting upset about someone shooting Pine is, I feel, more in line with how town are going to be thinking. Stuff like 920 and 922 again place a high amount of importance on their own opinions/predictions, even though, as TBG pointed out, the prediction itself was pretty vague.

This sort of stuff is possible to fake I guess, but difficult, and it was why I asked Taly about experience with Vax, because obviously if Vax is not usually like this then that would raise alarms.

However, my inclination from their posts was that they were probably town, yet the posting "looked bad" in a way such that it would be easy for people to jump onto it.

Regarding Maria's result, given the ambiguous nature of the result and my uncertainty as to Maria's alignment, I am not putting too much stock in that right now. However, it's more reason not to entertain a Vax lynch imo. I'm more just interested in people's responses to Vax's posting really.

PEdit:

haha, I like it!

[DeasVail]

Espe if you are town I will under 95% of circumstances lynch Fire day 3.

[DeasVail]

Honestly I also doubt that Fire would have been the lynch without the cop guilty but that’s speculation I guess

[DeasVail]

Espe if you are town I will under 95% of circumstances lynch Fire day 3.

Ok. But I really don't think it is drilled in enough with the town that Dunn can't be scum. And I don't want bullshit side event stuff like the people pushing penguin for no reason.

This is how Thor almost won jungle republic a few months ago.

What does Dunn’s alignment have to do with this though?

If Fire is claiming a cop guilty on you, with no condition attached, then the implication is that he will be lynched if you are town. Fire should know this.

I am not completely closed to the possibility that you are both town but that would require weird mechanic stuff that is externally confirmed and really I doubt it.

PEdit: I don’t really want to speculate more about Maria’s claim at this stage. I want to lynch Espe

[DeasVail]

Before the cop guilty, I still don’t see why there had to be scum in your group of 4

But it’s also not important

[DeasVail]

I completely agree based on play.

But Espe’s argument is that based on the roles, one of the 4 has to be scum, which is why Fire faked a cop guilty in order to buy an extra night.

But I don’t ageee with this argument. It could easily have been argued that all 4 were town and that it was just a self-balancing mechanic, just as it’s possible for there to be scum in the group, providing scum with incentive to influence rankings etc.

[DeasVail]

That’s @Taly btw

[DeasVail]

Ok but look at the trajectory of the game. There was no real voice saying that we were all town until you just now. And me v Fire has been going since day 1.

I don’t believe you v Fire was ever as big a thing as you’re claiming it was

[DeasVail]

Until now, obviously

[DeasVail]

UNVOTE:

I don’t know when I’ll have time to sort this properly

[DeasVail]

DV, with the recent pages, do you think it's more likely the entire group of 4 are all town? (Espe/Dunn/Fire/Vax)

Yeah probably

[DeasVail]

(Also sorry Espe)

[DeasVail]

Town

Taly
Dunnstral
Fire Assassin
Vaxkiller
Espeonage (I'm worried about missing something here but the reality is that he's probably town)

[Gap]

TehBrawlGuy
Punreader
the worst

[Gap]

Chara
Screenplay

[Gap]

Shoshin
Nahdia
MariaR
PenguinPower

Scum

--

That's a rough idea of my reads right now I think.

There are probably things about it that are not quite right, but I don't really see much reason to townread the people in the last group at this point.

[DeasVail]

Deas: can you tell me about Vaxkiller town and why i'm in the same tier as Srceenplay? and also Shoshin scum.

Vaxkiller town: See 1047. The Maria innocent also does hold some weight.

You in the same tier as Screenplay: Idk I think there were vaguely towny things about both of you but nothing super solid. I know that other people really think you're town and if I did actually want to lynch you I'd look more closely at all that, but in my head, you and screenplay inspire similar townish feelings but nothing super solid and you're above the group of people I'm interested in lynching, so the importance of where you place beyond that is probably not super important.

Shoshin is the kind of player that I've really enjoyed regardless of her alignment, but there's not just not as much there to justify a townread as there is for other people in the game. And because of all the ~stuff~ that's happened, I'm developing a likely town list with leftovers, rather than identifying people as actively scummy right now.

What about my posts regarding Fire/Maria likely not being different alignments, where I lost a shred of my sanity in the process?

You think Vax is town but Maria, do you think her cop claim and innocent holds weight?

I see where you're coming from in those posts, and I agree that TvS is a bad assumption to make based on the claims themselves. But I also disagree with assuming that it's

not

TvS. I feel that how Fire stumbled and bumbled and fumbled (ily Fire) around that cop guilty claim means he's very likely town, while Maria has been composed and her posts have made sense while she also hasn't done or posted anything that I would consider unlikely from scum. Is she my priority lynch right now? No. And her claimed Vaxkiller result means that I will definitely not consider a lynch on Vaxkiller before a Maria flip. But I still feel the need to make the fact known that I don't see much that's all that town about Maria.

Shoshin needs to actually be productive and state reasons but they could just be lazy I'll wait a little plus I can't vote em if Chara hard nopes me

VOTE: Shoshin

I'm town, I promise. I just zoned out of the game for a bit but I'll get into this eventually, definitely before we end this day phase.

As much as I am suspicious of Shoshin, I do empathise with this statement since the whole cop guilty but not guilty thing and it does (perhaps irrationally) make me question my suspicion.

[DeasVail]

Town

Taly
Dunnstral
Fire Assassin
Vaxkiller
Espeonage (I'm worried about missing something here but the reality is that he's probably town)

[Gap]

TehBrawlGuy
Punreader
the worst

[Gap]

Chara
Screenplay

[Gap]

Shoshin
Nahdia
MariaR
PenguinPower

Scum

--

That's a rough idea of my reads right now I think.

There are probably things about it that are not quite right, but I don't really see much reason to townread the people in the last group at this point.

What are you townreading Dunnstral for?

His posting seems to come from a town mindset while also being very different from what I'd expect from scum trying to look town, or even scum trying to look town by looking like they're not trying to look town. So I think he's town. Maybe he should be a group lower, I don't know. But again, whether he's kind of town or super town is probably not that relevant.

I'm also thinking that PenguinPower is the most tasty lynch option to me right now, but everything in this game is making me second guess myself.

(Like it's crazy that a part of me still thinks Espe is scum, but a part of me does and it's not that helpful right now)

[DeasVail]

I'd honestly be very surprised if I'm lynched this game, because both aspects of my role are provable and one of them is not very compatible with scum. But I'll happily oblige.

Town
Scum
Scum
Town

[DeasVail]

[DeasVail]

Town

Taly
Dunnstral
Fire Assassin
Vaxkiller
Espeonage (I'm worried about missing something here but the reality is that he's probably town)

[Gap]

TehBrawlGuy
Punreader
the worst

[Gap]

Chara
Screenplay

[Gap]

Shoshin
Nahdia
MariaR
PenguinPower

Scum

--

That's a rough idea of my reads right now I think.

There are probably things about it that are not quite right, but I don't really see much reason to townread the people in the last group at this point.

SO you don't buy MariaR's claim?

The claim isn't having a huge impact on my read. It's more that I don't really buy Maria, but she's also not a huge priority to me right now.

--

VOTE: PenguinPower

The Nahdia wagon is also cool, but with no Nahdia around I would feel a bit empty voting there right now.

[DeasVail]

I've got to be honest about the fact that I'm feeling pretty disengaged with the game at the moment. It's a weird feeling of there being too much going on and also too little going on at the same time.

Nonetheless, this is my fault and I will work on this!

I'm a bit torn on PenguinPower because of the defeatist attitude of a lot of his posting, which would make me question my scumread. But what I keep coming back to is this:

- He is obviously still posting and at least somewhat engaged with the game. I don't think this is apathetic town.
- And if PP is not apathetic town, then why the obstructive posting?

I mean, the interaction with Shoshin is probably the most town thing I've seen from him, and it's not exactly super alignment relevant.

PP's play just seems to me, to fit much better with scum who doesn't like scum that much. Started off on the wrong foot and has just sort of been floating along since then, kind of expecting to be lynched at some point, but sort of indifferent to whether that happens or not.

But I'm not sure and I could definitely see myself switching to Nahdia in the heat of a MEOW MEOW MEOW!

[DeasVail]

I see that things have gotten active again and unfortunately I’m V/LA for this weekend.

I’ve very sporadically skimmed the thread and am probably a little more in support of lynching PP than I was in my last post. I think the reasoning for scumreading me is disingenuous considering that there’s this preoccupation with my rankings and how sometimes my expressed reads are different from that, though I also would think that’s totallh expected from town, which leads me to the thought that PP hasn’t put much thought into his read of me and that it’s more likely a result of me being a convenient scumread to have considering my perceived lynchability at this stage and lower activity.

The people that are just PoEing me as scum are a lot less suspicious to me because that kind of makes sense.

[DeasVail]

And yeah I believe there's no cop claims right now. Neither of them are acting like cops should act. I think they're using too much information and trying to ride the cred.

0% chance we lynch an investigative claim today

Then we have to pretty much lynch Shoshin or we're probably hitting town.

Because this cop shit is bullshit. Maria and Fire have both done sketchy shit around their claims and I believe none of it.

Pedit: Hey DV. Thoughts on the Maria/Fire situation.

Hey Shepard, I haven’t read the recent stuff properly. My most recent thinking on the subject was that Fire is probably town and Maria not so town but I didn’t want to go there today.

[DeasVail]

DV, what're your thoughts on Sheperd?

I’m on the road right now and have only skimmed their posts but they’re still on my potential scum pile.

I just want to lynch PP tbh

[DeasVail]

Regarding Fire, I do struggle to see the cop guilty fiasco coming from scum but I’m happy to hear arguments as to why scum comes up with such a convoluted plan.

[DeasVail]

Regarding Fire, I do struggle to see the cop guilty fiasco coming from scum but I’m happy to hear arguments as to why scum comes up with such a convoluted plan.

this is one of many of Deas's posts that make me wonder how open he is to any lynch that might have traction.
Maria's vaguely town and Fire's vaguely scum in his last look at the 'cop claims', but there's some mild heat on Fire so Deas is still interested.
combined with my earlier feelings and my scumread hasn't really abated one bit.

This isn’t accurate at all?

Also I think the post you quoted makes it pretty clear that I’m unlikely to entertain a lynch on Fire, but obviously if people are suspecting him I want to talk about it.

[DeasVail]

Also Chara I’m interested in if you gained anything from asking for links to my recent games or was that just an empty question.

I’d also like to know why you’re suspicious of me being potentially open to lynches of PP, Nahdia-slot and Shoshin. I would think it pretty usual for someone to be potentially open to more than one lynch, and you have also expressed an openness to multiple lynch options, so it seems weird that you would scumread it.

[DeasVail]

I still think PP is more likely scum than you and I doubt that you’re scum together, but seriously I’m a bit puzzled

[DeasVail]

DV, can you say a bit about why you want to lynch PP over Sheperd?

While I have reasons for scumreading PP as I’ve described in-thread, I don’t have anything specific on Shepard to scumread. I mildly townread Nahdia Day 1 for her spearheading the end day movement, but by the beginning of Day 2 I wasn’t feeling the townread so much anymore. But still not as suspicious for scum as PP imo. I do plan on looking at Shepard’s entrance more closely when I get more time, but from first impressions, I don’t get strong scum vibes. There may be a weak town tell based on how they’ve interacted with me today, but I want to see more before divulging what I’ve been looking out for.

[DeasVail]

More posting #tomorrow

[DeasVail]

I will do my promised posting Day 3, in this case.

[DeasVail]

Being wrong does not equal being bad.

[DeasVail]

As a completely out-of-this-game-context thing, I can safely say that I have greatly enjoyed the times that I have played with you.

PEdit: I don't know, it seems you're pretty strongly townread here so there could be a reason for it

PEdit 2.0: I'd probably make the same post as scum, so no need to feel bad

[DeasVail]

that's true Deas, but from NoNames posts there isn't much of a reference to me (or anyone in particular who opposed Penguin's lynch), and the reaction to my scumread seemed to be frustration about not being townread, implying i'm town to him.
which is fine, but considering our last game together, i feel like brass wouldn't have just accepted me as a consensus townread.


on the other hand, that sort of frustration always looks towny. i'd at least like to see his explanation.

He will be someone I look a lot more closely at tomorrow regardless of PP's alignment.

For now though, good night.

[DeasVail]

Punreader, out of interest, why do you think I'm town?

[DeasVail]

My main thought right now is that I'm back to being suspicious of Fire because firstly, he's alive, and secondly, why investigate Dunn? That doesn't seem incredibly useful.

[DeasVail]

However, I must insist we let him live for one more night and simply lynch him tomorrow, as that is the optimal play.

I understand you may have reasons for this that I am not privy to, but as the most likely person, in my mind, to be scum, I will likely be pushing for his lynch today unless this is explained.

Also Shepard, does the PGO element of your role only work with kill attempts or other actions as well?

[DeasVail]

However, I must insist we let him live for one more night and simply lynch him tomorrow, as that is the optimal play.

I understand you may have reasons for this that I am not privy to, but as the most likely person, in my mind, to be scum, I will likely be pushing for his lynch today unless this is explained.

Also Shepard, does the PGO element of your role only work with kill attempts or other actions as well?

FoS DeasVeil

Why the fuck would I tell scum whether it did or not? That seems to be recipe for dumb

If I am then scum can’t roleblock then kill me they have to mislynch me
If I am not then scum know if they can eliminate me.

This reaction seems pretty over the top considering that you didn't mind if you died.

[DeasVail]

The following people are some form of townread for me. No indication is made as to the strength of townread:
Dunnstral
Nahdia

Now here's some dissonance I have to ask about.

Taly (10)
Punreader (10)
DeasVail (10)
the worst (9)
Shoshin (8)
Screenplay (7)
Chara (6)
Vaxkiller (6)
Nahdia (5)
Fire Assassin (5)
Dunnstral (4)
Pine (4)
TehBrawlGuy (3)
Espeonage (2)
Lovebird (1)
MariaR (0)
PenguinPower (0)
NicoRobin (0)

So Taly, myself, the worst, Shoshin, Screenplay, and Chara were all townreads. That makes sense. I've removed those names from the original 652, because what I really want to focus on here is the remainder. Dunnstral is listed as a townread, but is below both Fire Assassin and Vaxkiller, who are not listed as townreads. Nahdia is listed as a townread, but is below Vaxkiller who is not listed as a townread and is equal to Fire Assassin who is not listed as a townread.

The rest seem to loosely match up, but those rankings in particular seem jarring.

Care explaining, DeasVail?

I'd imagine it was because in the time between making post 652 and submitting my rankings, I decided Vaxkiller was more likely town than I thought before. I also don't really remember the reason for my Fire Assassin vs. Dunnstral placement. It wasn't super well thought out.

[DeasVail]

I've got to be frank. I'm struggling here. How I usually try and approach games is just not working here given the sheer number of role-related interactions and it's almost a situation of too much information for me to parse.

Based on impressions I /think/ that I would vote Shepard before I vote Shoshin but I'm mildly bothered by Chara/The Worst not being very present and I have to think some more on everything that has happened.

[DeasVail]

sorry DV. I'm waiting for someone to break this night action shenaniganry down for us simpler folk.

I kinda feel like 3 or so people think they have a guilty atm but it's kinda turning into white noise in my head so I just want to kill scum

I completely relate, don't worry, and that's part of the problem. Paranoia is running rampant in my head right now and I'm having to question everything that I've previously thought.

[DeasVail]

Okay I'm still just as confused as I was before.

What I need is townies that I can believe in as townies.

If anyone would like to apply for the position of "town I can believe in as town" I am all ears, because right now it's at the stage where I just need to talk stuff through with someone in order to sort all this out.

[DeasVail]

yeah I'm probably the only person who actually doubts your alignment, and maybe that's stupid, I don't know!

In any case, thank you for your response, I appreciate it. I will try and be around in 5 hours, but if not it will be shortly afterwards.

[DeasVail]

I'm going to post my incredibly simplistic thoughts on players, because despite all the "information" we do have, when it comes down to it, I don't actually have that much to say.

Punreader: Very unlikely to be group scum. Even if they are some kind of third party, at this stage it's most likely in their best interests to help the town so their death is not worth pursuing any time soon. I often don't really gel with the arguments they make, but that's probably not alignment-relevant in this case.

MariaR: Overall I'm kind of underwhelmed by her play in the game. But I've been very underwhelming as well and so it's really a matter of working out whether this is town-apathy because of the mess that this game has been or if it's just scum coasting while town continues to be a mess. Is there any way to tell the difference between these two things??? I don't know! The inno on Vaxkiller is interesting and is a positive in my mind, but I can't rule it as unquestionably town.

Espeonage: If Fire Assassin's role is taken as valid, then Espe is town. I also don't think that Fire and Espe are scum together because Fire almost got Espe lynched.

Dunnstral: From play I strongly think that Dunn is town. There is also Fire's result (but Fire's alignment is a question mark to me right now)

Shepard: Very unsure what to think here. If I had to pick an alignment, it would be scum, but there are things that make me unsure. The FoSing of me without actually seeming to think that I'm scum seems to go against what scum would want to do. If they wanted to get me lynched, then just get me lynched. If they want to "townread" me, then I would expect some amount of buddying here. But maybe my problem here is that I'm making expected scumplay too simplistic. Maybe Shepard is just scum.

The worst: TBG's post at the end of Day 2 did resonate with me as I had been thinking similar things. I find the worst's play to be generally town but with nothing that actually strongly points away from scum, and at this stage of the game, that requires a re-look at the worst's alignment. He also seems to really fit with what I'd expect from coasting scum, but Taly did strongly think he was town and they did have some kind of role interaction, which gives me pause.

Shoshin: Despite her being a common scumread, I actually like her play. I know I don't have any strong reason for thinking this, but I feel uncomfortable about the idea of lynching her. Maybe this is a bad thing! Maybe I'm just being bad! I don't know.

Fire Assassin: I don't even know. I really thought that the cop guilty fiasco was indicative of town but today's play from Fire has just not been what I would expect from town.

Chara: Probably town despite my reservations.

ManWithNoName: My feelings on him are just super mediocre. If I needed to fill a scumteam theory, then I would probably put his name in because it wouldn't make me feel uncomfortable, but that would be lazy and maybe I just need to see more.

Vaxkiller: I struggle to see his play coming from scum so my inclination is then town regardless of Maria's alignment.

---

I am completely aware that most of the above is vague and unspecific and not at all helpful, but that's where my thoughts are at right now.

I probably would just lynch Shepard, but I am really worried considering how this game has gone so far.

[DeasVail]

[DeasVail]

@DeasVail what I mean is please spoiler that cuteness

Apologies. I will do that from now on.

I think I want to be your best friend deas but your read on me is a little gross

Sorry

[DeasVail]

Shepard, just curious, did you/Nahdia get my message on night 1?

[DeasVail]

Yes I did I will quit with the jokes.

I was trying to tell you “I get the hint already” that it was you. I just wanted a bit of brevity.

Cool, thanks for answering. I was trying to rule out some kind of ascetic role you may have going on.

Also you're right I've made myself incredibly obvious with the cat thing. I decided to just continue with it as a way of injecting some light-hearted amusement into the game. (I'm not even that into cats!)

-

Oddly enough, I think Shoshin is town here and at this point I would probably choose to lynch Shepard over Fire, but Fire's disappearance is concerning to me and I want to hear from him before making a decision, ideally.

[DeasVail]

What's your role DV?

I don't feel the need to expand further on my role at this stage, but if there is a compelling reason to, then I will happily consider MEOW MEOW MEOW MEOW purrrrrr

[DeasVail]

I’m really not sure, but:

VOTE: Commander Shepard

[DeasVail]

UNVOTE: Shepard
VOTE: the worst

Let’s mix things up a bit since I’m not feeling crash hot about any of the wagons currently and the worst just concerns me. I don’t have any specific reasoning and I apologise for that.

[DeasVail]

Okay here’s the deal.

I’m becoming increasingly concerned about the current state of things. Maybe at least one of the current wagons is actually on scum, I don’t know, but I don’t feel confident in making a choice either way. I’m going to go back to Shepard who I believe is the most likely scum of the three (i townread Shoshin due to what appears to me a genuine mix of town apathy and attempting to solve the game and a conflict between these two, and Fire confuses me to the point where I just can’t bring myself to vote there).

I know I’ve probably harped on about this a lot, but the Maria and worst approaches here really do concern me. I don’t know if I can tell the difference between scum coasting and town apathy here but they are not getting any attention which bothers me.

For now though,

VOTE: Shepard

[DeasVail]

Ooo I’m curious too

[DeasVail]

Is anyone townreading the worst, Maria, or Dunn, and if so, why?

Only townreading Dunn out of the three.

[DeasVail]

Combination of towntells in his play (imo), fire’s result and espe interactions

[DeasVail]

I’m on a camping/ski trip at the moment and my time is a bit limited, so I’ll get into more detail later, but I actually find the ranking based on role thing to be fairly town as town are more likely to get excited about a PR and have it excessively influence their play, while I feel scum would try harder to pretend to be scumhunting.

[DeasVail]

I'd like to lynch Maria.

VOTE: MariaR

[DeasVail]

UNVOTE: mariar
VOTE: shepard

Sorry I’ve spooked myself

[DeasVail]

Never mind

VOTE: mariar

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Vaxkiller

I kinda wanna give Shoshin a day and lynch Vax or DV here. Both get closer to what the fuck happened and are likely scum. I kinda wanna see what Shoshin is thinking and that doesn’t work if she is lynched.

How does lynching me get closer to what the fuck happened? Also I don’t get why you’re voting Vax at all

[DeasVail]

deas where are your reads at roughly

My reads are along the lines of the following:

Don't want to lynch:

Punreader
Espeonage
Dunnstral (Not as much of a townread if Fire is scum)
Vaxkiller (Would re-look at this slot if Maria is scum)

Probably don't want to lynch:

Shoshin (Townread based on play)
Fire Assassin (I don't even know what's going on with him but I'm back to thinking that the cop claim fumble is probably from town?)
Krazy (Still think that the townreads on Chara were a bit excessive but I don't scumread the slot as much as others)

Would lynch:

Commander Shepard (I do have reservations about the slot being scum, but over the last couple of RL days, I have come to think of their play as scummy, rather than just town-nonsensical. I can go into specific things about the slot that concern me tomorrow if I decide to go back to their wagon)
The worst (Not much about his play specifically that concerns me, but I really fail to see anything much in the slot that pops out to me as town, and compared to others who I believe do have indicators pointing to them as town, this makes him a good candidate imo for coasting scum)
MariaR (My scumread here as strengthened a little over the last couple of days. Despite the fact that town is completely confuddled at the moment, and her own sporadic engagement with the game, her posting is very composed and there is not the "lost" aspect that I'd expect from town struggling to engage with the game, nor is there evidence of an attempt to engage the town and get things moving. While I feel that the worst's play fits with coasting scum, I actually think that Maria's play is indicative of it).

[DeasVail]

Vote DeasVail

This is unlikely to be helpful

[DeasVail]

But hello and welcome to the game. It's nice to see someone I recognise from my early days on the site!

[DeasVail]

You had a few arguments you could have used to counter my "coasting scum" comment, yet post count actually seems one of the weaker such arguments to use despite being visually impressive.

[DeasVail]

your content is not entirely fluffy though. You have posts which on the surface do appear to be useful. The impression I get, however, is that you are scum going with the flow, while making posts that appear helpful. But I overall doubt that you actually care for town to win this game. This is why I am considering you likely to be scum.

Your response to my suspicion of you is a bit strange, since you mention finding it suspicious, yet I feel the majority of your content since has been bravado which could be to fend off further suspicion?

I am going to bed now but I will think more on this tomorrow.

[DeasVail]

like

"hmm DV's suspicion of me is difficult to believe and possibly suspicious"

"Oh har har how silly of anyone to think I am scum! What a ridiculous notion!"

[DeasVail]

Vax full claim

[DeasVail]

Hey Krazy, my thoughts on Shepard are still that they are more likely scum.

I was wanting more info from Vax though about exactly why they were convinced of Shepard being scum, but I wouldn't necessarily need that to proceed with the lynch I guess.

Also every fibre of my being is trying to revolt against suspecting Fire Assassin because how does all that mess come from scum? But I am strongly considering the idea that maybe he is just scum.

I will possibly be dropping my the worst scumread but more need more time to think on that.

I will check in more properly later.

[DeasVail]

I think we need Fire Assassin to check in before we consider a massclaim, though I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to it depending on what he posts.

Spoiler: Image

[DeasVail]

Hmm I think I still prefer Shepard as the lynch at this stage.

[DeasVail]

I still need to review the Shepard and Fire Assassin slots more closely post-flip, but I have some questions to start off with.

Shoshin

- I would like to ask about a post you made yesterday, 2751. In this post you mention that I have "pocketed the shit" out of you this game, implied as being a point against me. I find this interesting given the following posts from you:

2117
2130
2574

If there were any pocketing then I think it'd be very much a two-way street, and the abrupt change in approach to me is odd.


I also find the following post interesting, given Shepard's flip:

2197

It is clear at this stage that I targeted Shepard night 1 and you night 2, and I've played in a way such that it should be obvious to anyone who I've targeted that it was I who targeted them. Looking back over the above post makes me wonder if you are partners with Shepard who obviously would have known that it was me, but because of your scum-connection with Shepard tried to pretend not to know? Not necessarily something I need a response to, but it interests me all the same.

Also, I'm probably not going to elaborate further on my role unless under duress or massclaim.

----

Krazy, I am also slightly confused by your approach to me over the last couple of game-days. Obviously you came into the game suspecting me, which is fair, yet seemed to be questioning that read from the beginning of Day 4. 2820 seems to imply that you think I am town? However then you revealed that you roleblocked me, which I find to be a strange choice given that I believe you had reason to think that I would not be performing the night kill as scum. This is also unconfirmed, but I actually don't believe I was successfully roleblocked last night? This will become more clear later.

---

Espeonage, Fire Assassin is dead. This is cool. What now?

[DeasVail]

Krazy, I am also slightly confused by your approach to me over the last couple of game-days. Obviously you came into the game suspecting me, which is fair, yet seemed to be questioning that read from the beginning of Day 4. 2820 seems to imply that you think I am town? However then you revealed that you roleblocked me, which I find to be a strange choice given that I believe you had reason to think that I would not be performing the night kill as scum. This is also unconfirmed, but I actually don't believe I was successfully roleblocked last night? This will become more clear later.

Although I'm not sure how much you understood what happened, I was thinking you were basically locktown when you did not fight me on C.Shep vote or try to get things going on Shoshin. But it is possible you didn't even know you could control the vote? I honestly have no idea how clear the mod explanation was, because I was pretty fucking confused the first time I read it. I would not have targeted you if I had understood how the role worked LOL. Thankfully my replace-in reads were bad enough that it worked out by accident.

I knew that I could have moved it if I wanted to? But I also was fine with Shepard being lynched. My main reason for questioning the roleblock choice was because me making a scumkill would have just been a pretty bad idea. It's pretty suspicious if I target people every night, and then suddenly no one gets a cat. Sure, there are ways to get around it, such as claiming to have targeted a scum partner or pretending to be roleblocked. But I don't know, it seems less likely that I would be making the kill to me?

Did anyone get a cat last night?

Spoiler: Cats!

[DeasVail]

ugh this is so tilting

I wanna talk to DV. after I do, @Krazy I'm giving you 24 hours to fullclaim

Haven’t been able to catch up on the last few pages yet but will try and be here properly later this afternoon.

[DeasVail]

Sure.

I’m a loved fruit vendor.

The cat thing is just a fruit vendor role. It doesn’t do anything else. I generally targeted people whose alignment I was very unsure of/people I felt I could interact with as a way of possibly using it to assist in reading how people reacted to the cat nuzzling. At first I thought Shepard might be town because of how they openly suspected me despite knowing that I sent them a cat (I would have expected scum to buddy with me more in that circumstance) but obviously this didn’t hold up for very long.

Targeted Shoshin N2, Krazy N3, the worst N4. Assumed that he’d received the cat when he posted a meow at daystart but it seems not?

The loved part is that it takes one extra vote to lynch me if it’s not LYLo/MYLO which I think is not compatible with a scum role??

[DeasVail]

Nah, loved is compatible with scum. I don't know why you'd say that.

I’ve never played with a loved role before but I’d think it really strange to have a loved mafia role because then it would make the round before LYLO a lot like LYLO in that you need ALL of town to be on board with lynching them to actually lynch them which seems a bit fucked but maybe I’m wrong and it’s a common scum modifier idk. I will admit I first thought it was more of a town-lock than it seems to be because somehow in my head I equated it with it making things LYLO a day earlier if in the hands of scum which doesn’t actually make sense.

But eh, if people end up wanting to lynch me I’ll do my town thing of screaming at everyone until they don’t want to anymore and that will achieve the same effect?

[DeasVail]

I also don’t agree with the worst assuming that Krazy is scum.

But I also don’t know why Krazy-town would have roleblocked me in the first place as I stated earlier.

So idk?

I will read up properly soon.

[DeasVail]

Sorry I misinterpreted your role. Just read your proper claim now.

[DeasVail]

I’m pretty busy today and so catching up/posting without a complete grip on what’s going on, but I do need to respond to the DV/the worst scum team assertion.

The meow from the worst at the beginning of the day is pretty telling I think. Because there was no way of a hypothetical DV/worst scumteam knowing that I had been roleblocked at that stage and I clearly caught the fact that the worst posted a meow because of my initial response to Krazy in saying that I did not think I had been successfully role blocked.

So the DV/worst scumteam theory is pretty bizarre.

[DeasVail]

Why do you not think I am scum, Shoshin?

Also, yeah that makes a lot more sense now

[DeasVail]

And EP, no worries, shit happens. You are in my thoughts.

[DeasVail]

Why do you not think I am scum, Shoshin?

Also, yeah that makes a lot more sense now

Btw the last sentence here was in response to the ep post rather than the scumteam suggestion. Realise that was unclear

[DeasVail]

I will be here within the next hour!

Also my lack of enthusiasm is probably NAI because I’ve just been super busy but I have some free time this arvo which is nice!

[DeasVail]

DV, why did you not send a cat N1?

okay

[DeasVail]

(I targeted Nahdia who became Shepard N1. What made you think I did not send a cat N1)

(Also what do you mean by type of cat?)

[DeasVail]

Also for clarification (and in fairness to EP), I did receive a PM from EP informing me of what Krazy did to me at the end of N3. However, I forgot about everything except the joint vote part, which was bad of me and I apologise.

[DeasVail]

N1 I believe

[DeasVail]

yeah, I also got told (at the end of N3) that I would not be able to use any actions N4, but I forgot about it. D:

[DeasVail]

I also don't know who is scum

[DeasVail]

My PM doesn't mention anything about a black cat, and no I don't choose anything other than the target. As far as I'm aware each of my targets should be receiving the same message.

Also, the worst, I'd like to ask you a bit more about your Shoshin read. In going back through various points of the game she is starting to become a stronger suspect for me at the moment. I found her reaction to Fire Assassin's "cop guilty" came across as a bit stilted and calculated, rather than a natural reaction, in a similar way to her reaction to receiving a cat, as I've expressed here.

I can see reasons to view her as town, such as the effort into solving the game, and the towncasing of herself, but I could also see these things coming from scum trying hard to win. Her approach to me has also come across as strange in that it seems potentially agenda-driven. Prior to 2751 there almost seemed to be a "buddying" agenda, and then since then it's been a "suspect DV" agenda. What makes me think this is largely the differing extremes in how she has interacted with me over the course of the game.

As I'm typing this I'm sort of losing my suspicion, but if there's anything in the above that could be resolved with some knowledge about her town/scum play that would be super helpful.

[DeasVail]

If I had to pick someone to kill, it would probably be guac, but there may be benefit in letting guac be vigged?

[DeasVail]

And this wouldn't be for any particularly scummy reason. More that the idea of lynching anyone else is a bit uncomfortable to me.

[DeasVail]

Thanks for your answer the worst.

Also re: Espeonage, from his own play I think he's scummy, but Fire Assassin was very close to getting him lynched.

[DeasVail]

Well yeah they had already committed to cross-bus because Espeonage had a 15% higher mortality rate than any other scum slot, if so. I mean Dunn's role was real and they knew it. So the #1 priority for Espeonage D1 would be cross-bussing imo. This whole game mode highly incentivizes early game cross-bussing.

Like is Espeonage known for having dope-ass reads and singling out a scum on d1? Or have some other meta grudge against FA? Cause that seems super targeted at a glance.

But yeah, rereading tomorrow.

I’m not vehemently disagreeing or anything.

I just have a lot of trouble reading the FA situation because it seems like a bad idea to claim a cop guilty on a buddy and almost get them lynched, in a situation where FA being kept alive after an Espe-lynch probably would have been suspicious enough to get him lynched too. But then i think it was also just a bad idea to claim how he did if Espe is town too. So I’m mostly just confused there.

[DeasVail]

Yeah Taly was pretty obvtown. May his soul Rest In Peace <3

[DeasVail]

The town case on DV is also hilariously bad.

It's better than your scum case tbh

[DeasVail]

so you think I'm town?

(But yeah I'm totally aware of that. Nonetheless, Krazy's read is correct while Shoshin's is not, soooo)

(Also Shoshin calling a town case on a town player "hilariously bad" when she is actually totally wrong about said player feels a bit yuck)

[DeasVail]

My thoughts are currently at the point of

Most likely to be scum

guacamole
Krazy
the worst
Shoshin
Espeonage
Punreader
Vaxkiller

Least likely to be scum

However, I would ideally like to lynch someone other than guac and have punreader kill guac, so am keen to talk with punreader about how we can make a guac kill happen.

[DeasVail]

But I very much empathize with the worst feeling as if he doesn't have a strong handle on the game.

Guacamole feels like an easy PoE option, but then it's probably too easy, and he's probably lower ranked than I would expect scum to be.

The Krazy slot as scum would make sense to me, and I don't think I ever townread Chara to the degree that everyone else seemed to, but his read of me over time seems weird from scum. He suspected me to begin with (made sense), and then revised that read for what I think was good reason. Scum probably need me as a mislynch here and he's not really helping that if he's scum! But then the options below him are not necessarily any better.

I don't have any STRONG reasons to read the worst as town, but his general play makes a lot of sense to me and I generally feel it to be town? I didn't feel that he was particularly likely as a Fire Assassin buddy, but at this point I'll have to consider him as scum just due to lack of SUPER STRONG reasons to consider him NOT SCUM. Eh, but I think he's probably town.

Shoshin is uh.... Shoshin

Espeonage would probably have been higher but the Vaxkiller 0 point is actually a pretty good one.

And then the others probably don't need to be explained.

---

PEdit: I like Krazy's apparent lack of effort towards looking like he has a well thought out read of me. But I do find it less likely to be authentic than Shoshin's read of me.

[DeasVail]

If you are a scum team, do you rate Chara a 10 when there are as many townreads on him as there are? What value does that gain you?

Your current line of reasoning means Fire Assassin rated basically his whole scum team as 10s. Like holy shit, that's a pretty bold assumption for a team that has played the way they have this game.

Firstly, we don't know what the intricacies of scum roles are. Perhaps being ranked higher than other people in the SUPP had some benefit.

Also, I did consider the 10s from FA as well, but it really just boils down to WIFOM, which doesn't hold MUCH strength considering the reasons to see everyone as town here. This stuff DOES make me hesitant, but I also feel like I have more reason to feel hesitant lynching Espe than I have reason to feel hesitant lynching you.

[DeasVail]

Fire Assassin legitimately wanted to lynch Espeonage because that is HOW HE DOES NOT GET VIGGED.

How would he have known his risk of being vigged at the beginning of Day 2?

[DeasVail]

I am sincerely sorry for my play being underwhelming here compared to my usual town standard. It’s been a combination of RL busy-ness, a difficult gamestate and despite having made attempts to get myself back into things here, I’ve struggled. This is not meant as an excuse, because my play definitely should be better than this, but I am town and i obviously do not want to be mislynched.

I have given a lot of thought to the game this day phase and I keep going in circles. I think my approach here would be to lynch Krazy, but I really want to get Punreader onside with vigging guac first

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Espeonage

Please explain this vote further

[DeasVail]

Woah hey Espe Reg and I were just talking about you!

What is the significance of the above post to you personally?

[DeasVail]

My god, this is like a repeat of Labyrinth where the scum are obvious and nobody wants to touch it. Why can't we lynch Guac?

I haven’t read the last few pages yet but if it is not pun’s intention to shoot guac I would most likely lynch guac.

[DeasVail]

I'm settling on this for today. Done looking at this until tomorrow.

Do you mean RL day or game day.

If you mean game day, I don’t think this approach is super helpful.

[DeasVail]

VOTE: guacamole

It’s not worth relying on a punreader shot.

[DeasVail]

I don’t know.

Everyone else has something about them that I consider town enough to make me uncomfortable with lynching them.

You, worst, Espe, Krazy are all options that float around with varying prominence depending on which part of the game I’ve most recently read.

[DeasVail]

Because I’m town, pretty much.

I would also disagree that I’m putting no effort in. During this game day I have gone back and read over multiple parts of the game and I have put a lot of thought into people’s alignments. Most of my thoughts amount to not much and I have chosen not to detail the whirring of circular thoughts that I have in regards to whether each person is town or scum.

Nonetheless, I am pretty aware of the difficulty in reading me here. I don’t think I am obviously town by any means. Many of my posts and approaches here have been exactly what I would do as scum too. However, I do believe there are aspects to my play and posting here that would indicate I’m town to someone reading me, albeit difficult to pick up on.

My position is that we should lynch guac.
I believe that the reasons I have for wanting to lynch them are shared by others to a significant degree and so at this stage I don’t feel the need to make a more passionate campaign.
I don’t believe I’m in much danger of being lynched currently and so I don’t see a great need to adjust my play solely for readability purposes.

PEdit: I don’t want to assume 100% truthful score claiming

[DeasVail]

Shoshin, please stop this tirade against me. I am sorry that I’m disappointing by not being awesome this game, and it’s getting to the point where you’re just slinging nonsense at me and I can’t work out whether it’s town getting carried away or scum with an agenda, but it’s just getting weird.

My reason for thinking I won’t be lynched was that Espe, Krazy and pun all seem to think I’m town and hey I could be wrong, but if you want to work with me I kind of feel you’re going about it in the wrong way.

Regarding guac, I think it’s plausible that everyone was telling the truth about their ratings but I really want to be careful about making assumptions and I think there are many potential explanations for the ratings working as they did.

[DeasVail]

I don’t mean to be bitchy but it does get to the point where you can’t tell me how to play but rather should just read me.

Also I will be rethinking my vote tomorrow.

[DeasVail]

Shoshin, I have a few things I'm going to need you to respond to, because I am starting to strongly suspect you as scum. I am aware that there may be an element of OMGUS to this, but I also find the way you are pushing my lynch to be suspicious in a lot of ways. Scum probably need to have me as a mislynch, which is why I've gone a bit cold on the idea of Krazy as scum (among other reasons), as I don't understand why he would go on about me being lock-town, as scum. I also feel like going for my lynch now is the kind of thing that scum might try to do, especially since the people townreading me are unlikely to be scum nightkill targets.

2. DV expressed a strong preference for lynching PP over Shepard on D2. Paraphrasing, this is what DV said: "I haven't read enough of Shepard to have an opinoin on him, I just want to lynch PP." I kept pushing DV to read Shepard, asking DV to explain the "weak town tell" and to look into the way that Shepard was misrepresenting me, but DV dodged that entirely to continue voting PP. He never explained the "weak town tell," nor did he make any further effort to read Shepard. Given a choice between PP or Shepard, scum want to lynch PP if they can do so without bringing undue suspicion on themselves. That's what DV did, all while dodging questions about Shepard.

If you've been reading my posts as closely as you indicate (see 3088, you would have noticed that the "weak town tell" I mentioned in regards to Shepard was in relation to their reaction to me visiting them on N1. It would then be pretty easy to infer that my reason for not divulging the details of this tell were because it was related to a role that I didn't want to explicitly claim yet. Yet you include that in your case against me. Either not very well thought through (seems unlikely to me considering the comprehensive nature of your thoughts on me), or deliberately ignored.

You also mention "scum want to lynch PP if they can do so without bringing undue suspicion on themselves". You've seen my scum games. I do struggle to replicate the passion that I often possess as town, but you know that I'm competent. I doubt that you believe I would so obviously dodge questions about a scum partner as scum.

DV wants to lynch Guac, yet refuses to contemplate who Guac's partner is. This doesn't make any sense from a town DV because the evidence strongly suggests that Guac's town if DV's town. Nahdia gave Guac a 0, so it's unlikely for scum Guac to be partnered with anyone else who gave him a 0 (e.g. TW, or Krazy) or even a 2 (e.g. Espe). In response, DV says that scum could have lied about the rankings, but again, that ignores all the evidence that scum didn't lie about rankings.

"Refuses to contemplate who Guac's partner is" is an interesting use of hyperbole when my answer was merely that I don't know who Guac's partner is. The gamestate is such that there is something I'm missing because I can think of strong reasons to consider everyone as town. I am not going to use rankings to clear someone entirely. Maybe scum fudged their numbers slightly (my impression was that rankings weren't exactly as predicted, but I could be wrong). If scum did decide to be honest about their rankings, it's reasonably likely that they would have ranked partners low in some cases. It's basically the same as bussing, which is a thing that happens... all the time? You're projecting the way that you're working things out, yet refusing to consider that it may be different from how others are working things out.

. DV's play is underwhelming compared with his usual play as town. He says he's struggling to figure things out, which is fine, but he also doesn't seem to be putting much effort to actually solve the game. He says he is, but that's too easy for scum to fake. He says he's been thinking about the game a lot, rereading, etc., but he doesn't show us any of the work, so there's no way to believe him. He says he doesn't have to because people think he's town, but that's a very bad excuse for hiding a thought process, especially this late in the game when he's clearly in the lynch pool.

Again, you know that I'm competent as scum. You know that I can easily fake content to at least look like I'm trying to work things out. Why am I not doing that here?

--

They do. In fact, DV did it as scum in the games I read.

This post was also suspicious to me. My answer to "Why shouldn't we lynch you?" was "Because I'm town, pretty much". Vax took issue with someone saying "I am town, pretty much", which ignores the fact that the "pretty much" was clearly in response to the "why shouldn't we lynch you?" question, yet you inappropriately use this to convince Vax to lynch me. I don't believe that you believe the "pretty much" part of my post is indicative of my alignment. So why encourage Vax to vote for me using that. It feels rather inauthentic.

[DeasVail]

UNVOTE: Guacamole

[DeasVail]

Hi peeps. My mum has been in hospital hence no posting th epast 24 hours or so, if it's quiet at work I'll be around tomorrow.

I hope your mum is okay, Espe. Wishing her the best.

[DeasVail]

I guess to summarise, I don’t actually think that Shoshin believes a lot of what she is saying about me and I’d love her to prove me wrong

[DeasVail]

Would like to hear your thoughts on the worst

Sure. When I said yesterday that I was going to reconsider my vote today, it was actually because I was reconsidering both Shoshin and the worst as scum options.

The worst gives me "gut town" vibes, but I don't know how much credit to put into these.

There are things I don't like. For example he has been scared of me being scum in a 3v2 situation, but I've quite clearly stated that I'm not loved in a LYLO/MYLO situation. This could be a "Freudian slip" of sorts in that scum are worried about facing me in LYLO because I would be less mislynchable. It's also possible that it's town/scum who just misunderstood my role.

Nonetheless, he seemed confident about lynching guac, yet very easily joins Shoshin in voting me, despite reportedly not having a strong scumread on me.

3264 is actually an interesting post because stating I am biased seems to imply that he doesn't think I am scum just making shit up. Because I wouldn't be biased if I were scum. The bias only works if I am town. But I was cautious to read too much into this. Scumslips are very often not actual scumslips... but what if it is??? Idk.

The worst's commenting on Partition Mafia is also not great. Re: 3291, my reads weren't as insanely good as he claims. And re: 3295 the "early call out" on muffin was not actually a serious scumread on him. So he didn't read the game very closely, but town trying to do meta checks can also do that superficially so idk.

I think that overall my read of the worst is less towards scum than what this post would indicate.
Right now I think he's more likely scum than Krazy or Espe, but where he sits beyond that is unclear. My read on Shoshin could go either way depending on how she responds to me here. Guac is not someone I'm sure of, but it does surprise me how resistant people seem to be to their lynch despite almost everyone expressing that they think they are scum or potential scum.

---

PEdit: Shoshin, I believe you're putting more emphasis on "dodging questions" than you should be. I also don't remember how I went from townreading Shepard to scumreading them, except that I was never strongly townreading the Shepard slot (which you have interpreted as distancing) and in the end decided that my reasons for doubting they were scum just didn't hold up anymore. I've also already answered why I thought their reaction to me visiting them might have been a town tell. Sure, I was wrong, but I don't get the repeated questioning of it.

As much as you may not believe this, my intention is not so much to defend myself, as it is to express my concerns about the authenticity of your thoughts on me. I don't think it's viable for me as scum to expect that people would predict my dodging of questions related to Shepard as towny, but it appears we disagree on that.

In regards to the "possible" vs. "probable" argument, the fact that we disagree on reads or even what should constitute reasons for reads, is not something that I believe will be helpful in you working out a read on me.

PEdit 2.0: I'm not saying that scum fudged the rankings. I'm keeping it in mind as a possibility since the difference between one person giving someone a 4 and giving them a 0 is not going to make a huge difference to the overall score. And I was under the impression that while estimated averages were close, they also weren't quite right, but if I am wrong about this I am happy to be pointed to the evidence that you mention.

[DeasVail]

Shoshin, I feel that you are including in your read of me an attack on how I am approaching this game and I think the fact that I don't agree with you shouldn't be seen as something that is indicative of scum.

[DeasVail]

I have more to say but I think there's stuff I probably shouldn't say RIGHT now
i'm also p wasted so there's that

Take your time but when you’re back I will be interested in what you have to say and why it needed to wait.

Enjoy the rest of the weekend btw!

[DeasVail]

That's the facts. Yes, I'm interpreting these facts as scummy, but I don't think that means I'm attacking how you approach the game, it means I'm analyzing probability of alignment based on your behaviors. If you're town, you know that I'm wrong, but I don't know that, so from my perspective, this isn't an attack on your approach and just vaguely saying that without actually addressing what I'm saying isn't helpful to sorting you.

Honestly I'm not especially interested in reading each of your points and finding ways to counter them. A lot of what you are saying is true, after all. This is an underwhelming town game for me. I'll take your word for it that there's not much about my play that makes me an unlikely partner for Fire/Shepard. You're right that I wasn't that keen on the idea of a Shepard lynch. My "excuse" for lynching PP over Shepard was that I thought PP was more likely to be scum at the time, but it's true that I don't have more detailed thoughts than that to give you.

Your observations are often correct, but a lot of what I've said in the last few posts is not an attack of you by any means. It is me commenting on the fact that despite your observations being correct, your inferences are obviously wrong, and I'm commenting on what I believe may be the flawed thought processes that have led to those incorrect inferences.

Since your first reply to the post where I was suspecting you, I've actually totally lost motivation for scumreading you. I disagree with you on a lot of things, but I get the sense that you are probably town.

I will also say though, that you seem to be taking the game a lot more seriously than I would be able to, which is cool. I love it when people get super into games. I love it when I get super into games. But that's not a place that I can be in right now.

Nonetheless, I am going to go with this:

VOTE: the worst

[DeasVail]

And I invite you, Shoshin, to join me.

Wouldn't it be ridiculously beautiful if after all this we led a wagon on scum together.

In some ways it would be even more beautiful if we were both town, the worst is town, and our moment of reuniting resulted in a town lynch!

But I'm also a bit messed up and see beauty in messed up things.

Maybe you're scum and this post will be even more ridiculous.

That would be kind of great

[DeasVail]

now I'm trying to work out whether I would make that post as scum or not.

Hmm, I probably would.

But it's hard to know really

[DeasVail]

I'm not high, I promise.

[DeasVail]

Spoiler:

[DeasVail]

Together!

Exactly!

[DeasVail]

Pun I'm not sure I understand your logic that the worst is town. I can at this point follow the reasons you suspect Sho. I think it's reasonable to suspect Sho if you are ignoring her playstyle.

But why is the worst town? I don't understand.

I also feel like I'm with you on some points for Espeonage, but I feel like it doesn't work overall. Sure, if it was just a matter of ranking phase lowkey bussing, I'd see Vax getting 0'd out. But I feel like the larger point was made that if they ensure Vax get's 0'd out then there's no way for them to get a free nightkill on Dunn. I mean, maybe scum bus, maybe they don't bus, but would they really value the bus over a free nightkill?

I feel like the argument that Espeonage is not basically locktown based on the ranking phase votes from FA and Shep/Nah is pretty suspect.

And if you accept that guac is not certainly scum, then why are you confident that the worst (FYPOV) is not Sho's scumbuddy (who you seem certain on?)

This is a good post.

[DeasVail]

obviously scum motivated

eh

[DeasVail]

Except if you lynch me and there's 2 night kills you're in 5p tomorrow with two scum alive and if DV is scum he's instantly won.

I’ve mentioned multiple times that the loved modifier does not hold up in LYLO

[DeasVail]

Oh sorry I forgot scum!DV would never lie about that MY BAD

I feel like Scum!DV would probably not reveal his loved modifier at all if it held up in LYLO. Between that and the low likelihood of a mod giving scum a loved modifier that also applies in LYLO, I feel like the extra concern is unnecessary. But as you said, im also biased I guess :/

[DeasVail]

Please someone hammer

[DeasVail]

Hi

I will read pun’s post later today

[DeasVail]

Last scum is probably DV.

I believe you wouldn’t be saying this as town.

I don’t think it’s usually possible for a single scum member to target two different people.

And I also don’t think it would make much sense specifically for me to be able to meow and kill in the same night.

[DeasVail]

Anyone can use multiple powers on the same night.

So DV isn't confirmed...

Ah okay, fair. I didn’t notice that.

[DeasVail]

Shoshin I think you should vote for Espe.

I’m not really up for lynching pun right now because I would much rather try and lynch scum.

I also am at the stage where I’m pretty sure it’s Espe over you.

I’m also town.

[DeasVail]

Pun is confirmed scum, DV.

I agree, but I am slightly worried about being wrong on Espe being scum, and the situation if I am wrong seems ever so slightly less dire with punreader alive.

I also am concerned that I am more likely to be mislynched in a 3P LYLO scenario than I am here. And as much as I would be having a similar thought as scum, at this point even as town staying alive is important.

[DeasVail]

Either way, we need to lynch Pun today because we can't trust Pun not to kill Vax.

I get what you mean but we need to sort the you-me-Espe triangle sooner or later regardless.

[DeasVail]

Like, besides the fact that I lobbied for Shepard's lynch on D2 in a way that scum don't do, I was also the mislynch that scum pushed as counterwagon to Shepard. You'd have to really stretch the imagination to argue that I'm scum.

I think you overestimate how clear you are but I also don’t think you are scum, so...

[DeasVail]

Thanks for your thoughts Ank.

But what I really want to know is,

Are you scum?

[DeasVail]

In answer to your question, Shoshin.

Pun is confirmed scum, DV.

I agree, but I am slightly worried about being wrong on Espe being scum, and the situation if I am wrong seems ever so slightly less dire with punreader alive.

I also am concerned that I am more likely to be mislynched in a 3P LYLO scenario than I am here. And as much as I would be having a similar thought as scum, at this point even as town staying alive is important.

Either way, we need to lynch Pun today because we can't trust Pun not to kill Vax.

I get what you mean but we need to sort the you-me-Espe triangle sooner or later regardless.

[DeasVail]

We all think pun has a high probablility fo flipping SK so we dont want to take chances there and we are lynchign him today. There is one mroe scum (we are thinking you) and if we lynch Pun today I'm the obvious NK going into tomorrow so that leaves DV, Shoshin, and you.

Which slot started all this paranoia on Punreader being an SK? That's probably your scum right there.

Bonus points if they're also the reason that this slot is currently the highest scum equity slot in everyone's eyes; it's a pretty simple endgame to bring the slot that's having the least impact on the game all the way to 3p LyLo, especially with the suboptimal play of lynching the third party right before that.

This is all pretty baseless and it seems almost dangerous to be throwing around such comments without knowing what the situation is if you’re town.

This seems like a “rush to defend myself” approach, rather than an “ask more questions to try and figure things out” approach that I would expect from town coming into the game in your position

[DeasVail]

That's a really interesting conclusion to be jumping to immediately.

How are you so sure that the approach you think I'm taking is the actual approach?

I never expressed certainty, nor did I make conclusions.

[DeasVail]

That’s lovely

[DeasVail]

Shoshin/Vax, I am now slightly more sure in Ankamius being scum and would again ask that we lynch her today.

Obviously, I understand that both of you (in particular Shoshin) have doubts regarding my alignment, but if you are both town (which I believe you are), then we will need to be working together here. I will admit to having a stubborn streak at times and being reluctant to be a “show-pony” in order to be read as town, but if there is anything you need from me I am willing to try and provide. Nonetheless, some questions I just won’t have very satisfying answers to, and that’s how it’s going to be.

If you force the issue, I would be willing to vote for punreader today, but my preference would at this point be with Ankamius.

[DeasVail]

DV, why did you townread Espe earlier in the game? And why should I vote that slot over you (please don't say "because I'm town" - give me some actual reasons as to why Espe has been scum based on his behaviors in the game).

I don’t remember what my opinion of Espe was on Day 1. I do know Espe reasonably well and was excited to play with him. I also felt as if I would be able to read him.

I do remember that at the beginning of Day 2, I started off the day pushing Espe as scum (exact reasons I forget but I wasn’t very impressed on review of his Day 1 posts and thought the way he opened day 2 was scummy) and was joined by Fire Assassin. When Fire Assassin revealed a cop guilty, obviously this seemingly confirmed my belief that Espe was scum. Then Fire Assassin revealed that it was actually a cop innocent and so obviously it didn’t make sense to think Espe was scum anymore. I felt in the subsequent days that Espe was likely town regardless of Fire’s alignment because who would do that with a buddy but I’ve since revised that belief given the danger Espe was in and I guess it could make sense as some weird pseudobus idk. I later townread Espe due to the imo sound argument that scum would have tried harder to get a free vig on Dunn and I still think this argument is okay, but my reasons to believe you are town outweigh my reasons to believe Ank is town. I think that much of Espe’s play after the FA situation is difficult to assess but parking a vote on a buddy makes sense, and I think that Ank’s play since replacing in has been pretty aligned with what I’d expect from mafia.

I’m at work right now but can talk in more specific terms later

[DeasVail]

I will confirm where I stand, answer questions and make a vote this afternoon. Thanks for your patience.

[DeasVail]

Hey Shoshin, in answer to your questions:

For more on my early read of Espe, 1038 probably says most of what there is to be said on the topic.

Regarding my townread on you.

First, trust me. I've tried very hard to scumread you. I've wanted to scumread you so badly. One of the weaknesses in my town play (even when I'm at the top of my game) is that I often rely on people's reads on me to guide my reads on them. It's probably because, deep down, I'm kind of self-consumed. Maybe we all are. I don't know and now this is getting more philosophical than I intended it to be so I'll stop. But basically your turnaround on me set my self-consumed alarm bells on red alert and I was all like "SOMETHING ISN'T RIGHT".

But the more I try and scumread you, the more I find reasons to think you're actually town.

At least over the last couple of game days, there's been an almost haphazard aspect to your opinions. You will have posts that give the strong impression that you are scumreading a particular player, and then only shortly afterwards you'll confidently state that someone else is scum. At one point on Day 5 you stubbornly parked a vote on me saying that it would stay there, only to end up joining the worst's wagon (when in all likelihood you could have just stubbornly tunneled me with less risk). Now, this sort of play could easily come from scum, but based on your play here, I don't think it fits with

your

play as scum. Because despite this haphazardness, much of your approach to the game has been logical. Such that if you were scum it would have to be incredibly well thought out, and if you were taking that incredibly well thought out logical approach as scum, you probably wouldn't be as haphazard with your opinions as you have been.

Also when I made my larger post commenting on your suspicion of me, with this post also expressing suspicion of you, your response to that actually made me think you were town. I forget the exact reasons why, but I might have gone over it in an earlier post.

As I've indicated to you before, I'm not sure that you're town. I don't think you're as clear as you think, but I think you're probably town.
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VOTE: Ankamius

[DeasVail]

Also

How can I convince you all that Espeonage is scum and needs 0s?
Ill take a 0 if thats what it takes.

[DeasVail]

Spoiler:

[DeasVail]

VOTE: punreader

[DeasVail]

Shoshin! We didn’t kill each other!

Thank you for the game EP