Mini 594 - Satin Doll Showdown - {GAME OVER}

[Mizzy]

/confirm

Oh damn, two of my vent-buddies are in this game. Guess I won't be venting much

[Mizzy]

EBWOP:

Oh damn,

three

of my vent-buddies are in this game. Guess I won't be venting much

/wrists

[Mizzy]

PS, I am definitely the hottest dancing girl in the club.

Glork wear thong, Mizzy insert cash.

[Mizzy]

Vote: MafiaSSK

for being someone I don't know.

FoS: Myself

for getting me into this mess.

[Mizzy]

Vote: Mizzy

Congrats on the child, hope that is going well.

PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."

I bet Nightson is jealous right now.

@Mod: OGML,

Should someone end up needing replaced you should try and get Nightson and/or farside in here considering the queue.

Things are going well, thank you

Yeah, you got Nightson's wish, you lucky s.o.b.

[Mizzy]

Me stuffing bills down Glork's g-string is polefishing. Discuss.

[Mizzy]

I don't see what Ether was getting at. O.o

[Mizzy]

My vote, while not strictly random in the definition sense, was random in the "Imma stick a vote on you 'cause I can, and it doesn't mean squat." <3

[Mizzy]

The random phase really didn't last that long, so there's no reason for me to still have a vote out there at the moment.

Unvote.

I'm mainly just sitting back with some popcorn and watching the whole Ether <--> Glork thing going on. Neither of one of them are acting out of character, I think, so as of yet, I have no opinions on who is scummy.

[Mizzy]

Quick update on my thoughts: After looking back over the few posts Ether has made so far, I get a pro-town read of her. She's acting (so far) like I would expect an Ethertown to act. Granted, we're only on page 4. But I don't think that her stretching on Glork makes her scummy, yet.

[Mizzy]

I noticed that, too. Good feelings evaporating based on "I want to give myself every possible out to 'suspect' Ether later on."

My point was that it's page-fucking-4. I don't have much to go on for the moment, and later evidence changes things, as it is wont to do. I simply wanted to express the sentiment that Ether is the same gung-ho shit-stirrer that I met her as in PYP way back when. And she was town then. So initial read = town.

I don't

need

an out to suspect someone for scummy behavior later. I just suspect them. You know, based on scummy behavior.

[Mizzy]

Mod:

I'll be going away for the weekend today and I'll be back sometime late on Sunday. Thanks!

[Mizzy]

Mizzy, since you were watching the debate between both Ether and Glork did you also update your feelings with respect to Glork as well?

Glork I haven't played with before more than one day so it's harder for me to judge, but I'd go pro-town for the moment, also.

[Mizzy]

Also, he used the word "rudimentary."

If I use the word "hebetudinous" to describe your brain when you made the correlation between big words and pro-town, does that make me pro-town, too?

That's hypothetical, by the way...I would never say such things!

[Mizzy]

WTB explanation for vote. PST.

[Mizzy]

Mizzy, what do WTB and PST mean? Also, why aren't you looking for scum?

It's a WoW reference, don't worry about it if you don't get it, it's not worth explaining.

I am scumhunting, which is why I asked for a reason for a vote on me when none was offered. No one else seems to give a shit that we have a lot of that going on.

[Mizzy]

I just don't see any form of scum hunting or productive contribution coming from you. You yourself mentioned previously that the random voting phase had ended quickly and that you were unvoting while watching the Ether/Glork thing going on but now that that has pretty much come to a lull, I still don't see much coming from your direction. Your previous post before these last two still seems like a joke post, which is fine and dandy since this is a game and all, but I would expect some more serious contribution by now. Obviously this also applies to a few others but you specifically mentioned that the joking stage had ended, but yet I still see nothing fairly serious in the form of suspicions or actual content from you. Also, you kinda missed Glork's previous question for you. Hence the vote.

You're right, I didn't see a question. Glork, can you point it out?

My participation is not going to be up to my normal level because of my critter at home, just as a heads up. During the week for a while, Joud will be working and I will be caring for Gabe all day by myself. My main posting will be happening on weekends so I will do my best to keep up as much as I can during the week and catch up fully on weekends.

[Mizzy]

What's your opinion of PokerFace?

I've got my eye on Poker for the moment, in part because of his #122. I can see having an exchange make you want a closer look but the whole jealousy conversation I think got taken way too far and I think it's more a distraction than scumhunting. I don't really think there's anything Glork could really have or know that would make Ether jealous and even if there was, I don't see that it would make either scum.

[Mizzy]

Thanks for pointing that out! When I have a moment, probably this evening before I pass out for my nap, I'll write up a quick blurb on how I feel so far about everybody.

[Mizzy]

As a heads up, I may not be able to post much content until the weekend because Gabe is feeling pretty sick and he's taking up a lot more of my time than normal. I'm really sorry my participation is much, much lower than normal, but it's like this in ALL my current games, and for a very, very good reason. If you guys want me to be replaced, just say so; I'd understand.

Poker:

All the games I've finished are on my wiki page. I haven't ever been scum.

[Mizzy]

Mod:

Sorry, Gabe is sick and he's not sleeping much right now. Please consider me on V/LA until he's feeling better and I can actually function again. Feel free to replace me if you think it's needed.

[Mizzy]

Back, I'm re-reading from the start of the thread. Will post mah findings when I find them!

[Mizzy]

Page 1:

Not much to say here except that the seeds are sown for the whole Glork-role-fishing debacle which I don't really agree with. I think part of the problem here, as shown by Glork's #24, is that since most of us already know each other and have played together, we are automatically suspicious of each other above and beyond what we normally would be and what is necessarily healthy.

Page 2:

I don't want to say too much about the whole "Glork was rolefishing" thing because it's already been beaten to death and I don't want to start that up again, however I did want to mention that Ether showed her normal over-the-top self that I met in Pick Your Poison in #47. I don't find what she was doing as scummy, just reaching, which is what prompted me to mention that I thought her pro-town at the time.

Page 3:

I find it interesting that we have a couple different flavors of attempts at aiding discussion here. Patrick is acting questions related to conversations he isn't in but seems interested in, Glork is being a sarcastic bugger, and Cow is asking questions with a slight accusatory tone. I also find it interesting that Glork didn't find Cow's explanation satisfactory and yet he wasn't pushing for a better one.

Page 4:

Tar opens with a good point about Ether's posting, which in retrospect does look like some veiled attacking, though again, it's not enough for me to find her suspicious yet. Patrick for some reason is beginning to bother me. He seems to be inserting his two-cents everywhere, though he doesn't seem to be doing much scumhunting on his own. It looks like he's trying to look contributive without actually adding content of his own.

I do wish that Glork had explained his "early pro-town indicators" but I don't think he did.

Now comes that post of mine that everyone shat themselves over, and while I suppose I can understand why, I think people are looking for scumtells around corners that they'll never find them around. What I mean by that is that I feel that everyone is being far too over-sensitive about scumhunting here. It makes me worry that the moment a townie makes a mistake, they'll be railroaded even if it's something as trivial as a spelling error.

I also notice that Glork and Ether went from distancing to agreeing in one page and all it took was one post by me with lots of qualifiers.

Page 5:

I don't agree with Scot's interpretation of Tar, especially since it's kind of hidden in his post #105 and there's not even any Tar quote in there. It also interests me that Glork forgot who he was voting...unless he doesn't care much at this point, then it could be an indication of his vote being a weak one and perhaps he knew that. Maybe he wanted an excuse to vote someone else? Not sure. Also, not sure how someone who has barely posted can feel sinister (Ether's #108.) Patrick points out Glork's hypocritical mindset. I don't like Ether's unexplained unvote/vote in her #121.

Page 6:

Patrick's #125 feels very pot-kettle to me, and I don't agree with his interpretations of Poker, either. I don't think Poker was trying to blend in, but I do think Patrick was doing that in some of his previous posting. Unexplained unvote/vote on me from Incognito, ugh, this is becoming a trend. Glork is reaching for something to be bitchy about in his #130. Later, finally an explanation from Incognito, but I'd much rather have seen it in the vote post rather than having to ask for it.

I think Ergo's Glork vote in #140 probably should have been an FoS and not a vote because his reason for the vote is pretty weak. MafiaSSK does his unexplained pro-town vibes post, and gain Patrick asks a ton of questions but I can't tell if it's from scumhunting or from wanting to appear like he is scumhunting.

Page 7:

Poker's #158 makes me feel pretty good about him now, mainly because he really seems to have done some good thinking and seems to be honestly scumhunting. Oh look, yet more answer-prompting from Patrick.

Page 8:

Please don't anyone feel bad about attacking me just because I'm a new mother, but do keep in mind that my time and energy is very limited. I am not up to my playing standards at the moment, so you all will need to bear with me.

Okay now I can see some of why people are attacking cow, though I can't say I'm convinced that he's a good lynch yet.

Page 9:

I think that most of Glork's posting in this game have been sarcastic and tongue-in-cheek, and I would like to see more actual content from him.

Conclusion:

I feel like everyone is nitpicking the crap out of everything, whether it deserves it or not. People need to take this game seriously, sure, but going overboard on every little thing will make it easy for scum to make crap cases and mislynch if we're not careful.

Also,

Unvote. Vote: Patrick

for all aforementioned dislike of his posting.

[Mizzy]

The way in which you've presented this suspicion of me makes it kind of hard to answer to. You've said you don't like how I seem to insert my opinion/two cents everywhere, and how I'm asking questions everywhere, but that's how I play the game. I don't see any other way of scumhunting. I can explain why I asked any particularly question if necessary.

Maybe that is so, but the questions you ask look like you're just trying to look like you're scumhunting. A few questions have been the only thing in a post by you, and more than once, the question has been aimed at a conversation you have not been participating in up until then, which makes me wonder if you are trying to cause dissension among the ranks, as it were.

One huge example is when you asked Glork if his question had been answered to his liking. Not only do I feel like it wasn't your place to ask, but I don't see why you would have any reason to ask that question. And, by asking that question, you altered the natural conversation, which limited the information the town got. What I mean is, you didn't allow Glork to point out for himself that his question wasn't answered properly, and you didn't add anything to the conversation yourself.

Patrick's #125 feels very pot-kettle to me,

I had to laugh at this though. You've done alot less scumhunting than I have this game, and you're not the only one.[/quote]
Just because I am guilty of the lack of scumhunting does not mean that you are not also guilty. I have a newborn baby taking up 99% of my time; what's your excuse?

Just because other people aren't scumhunting does not mean you get to hide behind their lack of hunting in order to justify your own lack of hunting.

I also don't feel like what you have been doing IS scumhunting...I feel like your questions have been designed to make it look like you are participating and scumhunting without actually doing much of either.

And here's a (gasp) question. What's protown about Poker's 158? He didn't take many firm stands in that post at all, and left the door open to doing practically anything with alot of, "But I have to meta them" type comments.

Firstly, this is different than the questions of yours I have a problem with considering that you are actually in a conversation with me and it's not the only damned thing in your post.

Anyway, to answer your question:

Firstly, someone doesn't always need to make a firm stance in a post like this one in order to be seen as pro-town. This is more of a "I just caught up, let me chime in with some of my thoughts" post, kind of like what I did, just in a different format. Just because I have a firm stance doesn't make his less valid.

Secondly, he's saying he has to meta the people he hasn't played much with or played with at all, which I feel is a perfectly fine and valid thing to do.

Why do I see him as pro-town in this post? Because his post seems very sincere, and like he's actually trying to contribute and help out, even though he has no concrete scumdar pings as of yet. Hell, I didn't have a scumdar ping until I re-read you, Patrick, so I don't really see his lack of a firm stance is a problem one way or another.

Assuming you mean my post 163, this looks like a stupidly cheap shot with the sole purpose to continue to build this image you've made of me. What you dislike, when we take away the negative language, is that I asked cow who he suspects? If you look at his posts before that, it's very unclear who he was suspicious of. Are you going to say that every time I ask a question? What do you feel wasn't scumhunting about that?

Yes, I mean that post. It's yet ANOTHER completely empty post from you that contains just one question, one that is generating content by asking another player for said content. It smacks of attempting to look contributive without actually being contributive and it's something that scum often do in order to help them build their own cases later on. Scum already know who town are and so often times have trouble formulating cases without the help from townies. Since I know that you suck ass (you told me so) as scum, this seems like that very tactic from you.

[Mizzy]

Patrick, to better answer your question on how I don't feel that your question to Cow was scumhunting, I feel a scumhunter would have said something like, "Hasfaddasdaas, your last post didn't explain who your suspects are very well, so can you please elaborate?" Instead, you simply asked him who his suspects are, which is something I find suspicious because the motive behind asking is not made clear or even hinted at. It lends more to me thinking that you want to know so that you can build your own cases rather than an actual interest in Cow making his thoughts more precisely known.

[Mizzy]

I don't understand why it's a problem to have a post (or several) that contains only a question. It's certainly not unusual. I'm hardly going to add something else to a post that contains a question if it's not needed. Also, I don't understand why you consider it a problem to ask a question about a conversation I haven't participated in up until then. Sometimes I need to ask a question before having a firm opinion on some issue.

I've already said why. Because a) it's letting others generate content for you, and b) it makes it look like all you do is question others before coming out with an opinion, making it look like you are scum who finds it difficult to know what to say before someone else says it for you.

If you've read my posts, I've already explained why I asked that question. Glork had already posted after hasdgfas's response, so I hardly think I was treading on his toes or limiting information.

Oh, I do know why you said you asked, but the reason came later, after you asked the question and it was brought up. I just feel that you are leading the witnesses, so to speak.

I'm not making an excuse, as I don't think I need one. I just felt like you accusing me of not scumhunting seemed very left field considering the number of people who you could have reasonably accused of the same.

And I do think we need more scumhunting from others, MafiaSSK and Elmo, specifically, but there's a difference between yours and theirs. They are lurking and giving basically zero content, where you are using questions to have other players generate content for you.

I can hardly believe I'm seeing this. Yes, I was looking for him to produce content about his suspicions, because I felt I didn't have any real idea who he suspected, that seems kind of a routine thing to do when you feel that way about someone. Your argument here would apply if I'd only been asking questions and not providing any opinions of my own, which might even be close to one of Tar's tells, but you've said yourself that you don't like how I've been giving my two cents apparently without scumhunting.

I wouldn't have seen the question to him as scummy if you had, as I said, mentioned WHY you were asking. Instead, it looks like you were using his answers to make it look like you're contributing. As for opinions of your own, most of them are after someone else has already expressed the same opinion, or saying you feel exactly the opposite of someone else's already expressed opinion. I see very little new ground from you, and I would expect new ground from a Patricktown.

I don't see anything different about those two questions aside from a little semantics. When I say, "Has, who do you suspect?", I'd say that makes it pretty obvious that I'm not clear on who he suspects and I want to know. The addition you've said I should have added seems completely trivial to me. Also, I don't see why it would be a problem if someone's motive for asking a question was unclear initially anyway. I could even see it helping.

Half of the game is all about semantics. While it seems trivial to you, it gives the town more information about your thoughts and motives, which is pretty important in my opinion.

[Mizzy]

Poker:

Maybe you missed me saying so, but the reason my participation level is down is because of my extremely limited time to play. I have never had limited time to play before that has gone on for so long, and my participation is down this low in ALL of my current games, not just this one.

[Mizzy]

Okay, I'm going to explain this one more time, believe me or not, I don't honestly give a damn.

My participation level in this game and in all of my current games is going to be no where near what it was pre-baby. I am caring for him alone during the week and most of the weekends are set aside for catching up on sleep. I am participating, but don't bother expecting my normal gung-ho 8-billion-posts-a-day self in

any

of the games I'm in at the moment because you aren't going to see it for

at least

another month.

Using my lower-than-normal level of participation to label me as scummy is lazy and quite frankly opportunistic.

[Mizzy]

Supporting someone's lynch because they are "useless" is, as I said before, lazy. If someone is not playing the game, they should be replaced and not lynched. Just my opinion.

That said, I tend to agree with Incognito in his #264 about Glork; I would expect him to have said more about a lot of things, my case against Patrick included. I'm still more suspicious of Patrick at the moment, but I do want to see more out of Glork.

As for the question asked of me about what questions I found that weren't scumhunting, I will provide a list as soon as I can, but I did point them out by page in some cases in my summary.

[Mizzy]

I actually feel a little better about Patrick right now, mainly because his #280 was so chock-full of information from him that I've been wanting to see. Also, considering that I called him on his question-only-posts and then he posted another one suggests that such behavior is habit and not indicative of scum per say. Granted, I haven't had a chance to see if asking questions with nothing else in the post is something he does all the time or not, mainly due to lack of time, but I intend to at least try to as soon as I can. Until then,

Unvote

.

I am really, really surprised that Elmo has said so little in this game and I can't decide whether or not it's because he's boring vanilla or because he's scum. I'm leaning towards boring Vanilla.

SSK I get noobtown vibes from, due to his apparent lack of interest in the game. Useless is not something I equate with scum.

More from me tomorrow.

[Mizzy]

Glork, stop being a useless bastard, please. I have an excuse, but you don't

Those of you that know Glork in games better than I do: Does he always pepper his posts with witty commentary in lieu of content or is that a new development?

[Mizzy]

One man's opportunism is another man's realism.

One of these men in question is scum, though, and one is town. Which are you?

[Mizzy]

Okay, I'm not comfortable with an Elmolynch, but Glork's last post, #309, seriously makes me unhappy. Bored with the game so you're not participating? Get replaced, please.

I would much rather see Elmo replaced rather than lynched. Glork's actions come off as scummy enough to me that I would much prefer his lynch over anyone else's at this time. I just cannot see Glorktown acting this way, and by that I mean his constant lack of content, his witty attacks in lieu of content, and his active-lurker-status. I know I haven't been doing all that well, myself, but I've been trying to find scum and it really feels to me that he's not.

Vote: Glork

[Mizzy]

Glork, do you have any specific posts that point you to such a scumtrio?

I regret that I have such little reading on so many people. I need to do some thinking on the voting at the end of the day yesterday; maybe I'll be less of a fence-sitter.

In other news, I don't think Glork is scummy anymore, but I also don't think he's bored anymore either.

[Mizzy]

Mizzy: Why were you 'not comfortable' with my lynch? What does that mean, exactly? If you weren't, why did you vote for someone who would not obviously get lynched at deadline, when cow was at four?

It seemed to me that you were being lynched for being "useless," i.e. inactive. I have always been and will always be a fan of getting someone replaced who is inactive as opposed to lynching them. Plus, you hadn't done anything I could read as too much town or scum so I felt (and still feel) that I don't really have a great read on you.

As to why I voted for someone who wasn't going to get lynched, I felt that I needed to place my vote where my opinion was (I'm trying to be a little less over-cautious) and I don't feel that someone needs to vote for the leading wagon(s) if they don't feel right doing so.

[Mizzy]

Well that changes things, but I'm not going to hop onto a Glork wagon until we have enough time to see if there is a counter claim.

[Mizzy]

Okay, if Glork is scum, then he's acting like an immature asshat. If Glork is town, then he's acting like a pissed-off townie. Considering that I don't think that Glork would EVER resort to being THAT much of childish asshole (threatening to not play with Tar ever again?) I prefer to think that he's pro-town for the moment.

[Mizzy]

I agree that Tar should not have claimed when he did (both on Day 2 and at only -2L) because now he's rendered himself basically useless for the rest of the game.

For the moment, I don't think I'd be willing to vote for either Tar or Glork based on this alone because Tar's claim was scummy as hell but it was a cop claim that says Glork's scum, so I need to keep all of that in mind. I would rather look at a different target for now, such as SSK.

All of you yesterday who were willing to lynch someone for being useless? *Points to SSK.* I would rather get him replaced but considering that he keeps answering his prods (gnashing of teeth is heard) then I'd be okay lynching him.

Vote: SSK

[Mizzy]

why try to lynch a lurker?

Why lurk?

[Mizzy]

Ether:

At this point I would lean more towards Tar being scum because I don't think his claim was terribly legit (the timing, wording, etc doesn't sit right with me) and Glork's current play seems incredibly unlike him (I said before that I didn't think he'd be that childish which is what he would be if he were scum.) That's if I have to think one is scum.

[Mizzy]

Ooh, SSK posts to read! Since he no longer appears to be lurking,

Unvote

.

[Mizzy]

I really need to do a re-read, sheesh. I'll do that and post my findings ASAP.

[Mizzy]

I'm here, just terribly busy. Will try to catch up ASAP.

[Mizzy]

Rough waters with the baby as of late, trying to catch up :/ One of my other games just ended so I have a little more bandwidth for this one.

[Mizzy]

Would you rather I throw out my thoughts / opinions on the remaining players before day ends and essentially doom myself to a

maximum

50% chance of surviving, or should I take a chance and see if I can negate a kill attempt on me tonight?

Now would be good Glork just because if you think you'll die, you should get all your thoughts out there

I agree with the cow.

[Mizzy]

I need to take a LoA until this weekend, things are really busy IRL right now but will slow down to a livable pace as of this weekend (Joudas stops working and comes home to help with the baby so I'll get some sleep and some time, yay!)

[Mizzy]

Yes, let's all vote without saying why! That'll win the game for the town. Good plan!

[Mizzy]

Yes, let's all vote without saying why! That'll win the game for the town. Good plan!

If you were reading the thread, you'd realize that my reasons for being suspicious of hasdgfas had already been covered.

So it's okay to just not mention why when voting? Every other time I've seen that done, the person doing it gets ripped a new one. I feel, myself, that's it's better to always be clear, especially to help re-reads later.

And you ain't the only one who did it, Mister Defensive.

[Mizzy]

Even though I agree that Cow is probably scum, I still get some interestingly scummy vibes from Incog, maybe that's why I read his posting so far today as being defensive and overly so. Probably just me, but that's how I feel.

[Mizzy]

I find this suspicious as I pretty much already said the exact same thing. It also doesn't feel totally sincere to me for some reason.

Or maybe you wanted an excuse to be suspicious of me because the OMGUS reason is bullshit and you know it?

As for Glork being a kickass scumhunter, yes he is, but he is also

capable of making mistakes

.

[Mizzy]

Poker:

Well, now that we know for sure that Glork was telling the truth, I for one and going to go re-read that whole thing and see if hindsight turns anything up, though I am not sure when I will be able to do it.

[Mizzy]

Mizzy, I asked you a question earlier but I guess it clashed with RL stuff. I'll ask it again:
How could you seriously believe that there was any other option for Yesterday's lynch other than Glork or Tar?
Post 413 is breathtaking in it's non-committallness. I have no idea how someone, confronted with 2 mutually-exclusive claims, can decide to vote for someone completely unrelated. Can you explain?

I'm sorry, no, I didn't see it.

I can't really answer in a way that you would fully understand. The closest I can come to is that you didn't need me for a lynch (had plenty of voters) and I saw that the person I felt should be lynched probably would be (Tar) so I started scumhunting for another scummer.

[Mizzy]

I can't really answer in a way that you would fully understand. The closest I can come to is that you didn't need me for a lynch (had plenty of voters) and I saw that the person I felt should be lynched probably would be (Tar) so I started scumhunting for another scummer.

For the moment, I don't think I'd be willing to vote for either Tar or Glork based on this alone because Tar's claim was scummy as hell but it was a cop claim that says Glork's scum, so I need to keep all of that in mind. I would rather look at a different target for now, such as SSK.

How do you reconcile these two statements?

Don't they kind of say the same thing? Or are you reading more into them than you should be?

[Mizzy]

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Post 413 says that you're kinda undecided between Tar and Glork - Tar's claim looks scummy, but then he is claiming to have a guilty on Glork so that's making you think twice.

Post 640 says that you thought Tar was scum, but you were confident that he was going to be lynched without you. So you voted for someone completely different.

Is that an accurate interpretation of your posts?
How do you explain the inconsistency between the two?
Since when have you started deliberately not voting people you think are scum because you think other people will vote for them anyway?

If you know me at all, you'll know that I am a very cautious player. When major stuff goes down in a game, I form some pretty strong opinions but don't talk about or act upon them unless I'm sure.

I don't really see there to be an inconsistency between my two posts. In one, I'm saying that I don't feel comfortable voting on either just yet, which is pretty normal for me. And in the other, I say I felt that I wasn't needed because I felt the right target would get lynched. In the previous day I had mentioned that I felt Glork was town, and that really hadn't changed much with Tar's claim. It made me second guess myself a little, but I still had my opinions on the matter.

You also have to keep in mind that as of late, my play time has been drastically reduced and so has my quality of play, for reasons you all know by now. But again, just because I don't say something doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on it...but if I don't feel comfortable with a situation, I'm not going to pick a side until I am positive I am doing the right thing. In this case, I felt the right thing was looking at a third target because a) no one else was and b) my lack of play wouldn't fuck things up for everyone else in scumhunting.

[Mizzy]

Yeah OK. But what made you think that a vote was warranted on SSK when it wasn't warranted on Tar?
I'm especially surprised now that you have reminded me how rarely you vote for people unless you are certain. So how come you voted SSK in order to 'scumhunt'? Are you saying that you are certain that I am scum?

Sorry Mizzy, but it just doesn't stack up.

vote Mizzy

Whatever you say, Eld, but at that time, I thought he was scummy enough to vote for his lurking and play, yes. And a less controversial choice than either Tar or Glork. Why lurk at a time like that when you should be at least talking about what's going on? The only reason I could see for him active-lurking was that he felt uncomfortable with what was going on, maybe because his scumbuddy was running a gambit.

[Mizzy]

Whether or not you believe me, you can trust that I did play my part yesterday to get Tar lynched, as I did believe he was scum at the end of the day very strongly. Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean nothing happened.

If I had thought that, at the end, Tar wouldn't have been lynched, I would have stepped up and voted him myself, but I didn't see the need to.

I also believe that SSK was probably noobscum who was lurking because he was unsure how to proceed in a way that wouldn't draw attention to him. Right now, I feel like eldarad is going after me because I look like an easy target, making the role in general look even scummier to me.

[Mizzy]

This under-the-table talk of tells is kind of getting to me. Ether, if you are comfortable with it, can you explain what tell you found that clears Eld? I'd be more than happy to think of him as being less scummy if I had a reason I could see.

[Mizzy]

Well, I do want to know what Ether says clears you, Eld. I would love to talk about that. I don't mind being proved wrong...I would rather see the light if there is light to see and think you are less scummy than continue suspecting you if I am incorrect.

[Mizzy]

I'm pretty sure Ether's "challenge" was in reference to the fact that she pretty much made a post clearing a bunch of people as town in her eyes (including eldarad who is kinda like the competing wagon for today) but after it kinda sat there for two days nobody who might have opposed it (*ahem* hasdgfas *ahem* and *ahem* PokerFace *ahem*) bothered to comment. The obvious line of questioning from the nay-sayers would have been "Ether, what convinces you that the person I'm

voting

for (or am suspicious of) is town?". Interestingly, this questioning only came from hasdgfas and others after Ether offered the challenge. So yeah, I still feel absolutely magnificent about my hasdgfas vote.

Okay, I think I get it. I will be honest; I have no idea how Ether plays the way she does...I seriously cannot follow her line of reasoning without it being written out. I think like a programmer, not like an Ether

You are saying that if they had questioned it earlier as opposed to later, it wouldn't have been a scumtell, but because they questioned it after she "challenged" that it IS a scumtell? I can see that. But I was hoping for something more substantial that shows Eld as town...or was there something else I missed?

[Mizzy]

Okay, I suppose I can see where Incog and has are both coming from. Gah.

My personal opinion is that Eld has a haze of scumminess around him, but I am willing to give him another chance. Like I said before, I would rather be proved wrong when I think a townie is scum than not.

So, Ether wants a cowlynch...who do you guys see cow as being paired with? Not a really important question at this point but I'm curious.

[Mizzy]

So, other than the cow hatefest, it looks like Poker may be being looked at, too. Whyfor other than Ether's challenge thing?

[Mizzy]

I will be on V/LoA for today and tomorrow. Sorry, emergency came up! Will hopefully be able to post but I can't guarantee.

[Mizzy]

I think I agree with Ergo here. I would be okay with a cow lynch, for the basic information, but I would have preferred a PF lynch. Since a hammer is not needed for a deadline lynch, I am going to put my vote where my opinion is.

Vote: PokerFace

[Mizzy]

Oh, before anything earth-shaking happens, here's my scumdar, 1 being town-reading and 10 being scum-reading. 5 = undecided.

scotmany12 - 1
Elmo - 1
Erg0 - 2
Incognito - 4
Ether - 5
eldarad - 6
hasdgfas - 8
PokerFace - 9

[Mizzy]

Even though I agree that Cow is probably scum,

I still get some interestingly scummy vibes from Incog

, maybe that's why I read his posting so far today as being defensive and overly so. Probably just me, but that's how I feel.

Oh, before anything earth-shaking happens, here's my scumdar, 1 being town-reading and 10 being scum-reading. 5 = undecided.

scotmany12 - 1
Elmo - 1
Erg0 - 2

Incognito - 4

Ether - 5
eldarad - 6
hasdgfas - 8
PokerFace - 9

When did this happen? Also, when did you decide that PokerFace was scummy? I don't remember you mentioning much about him all day.

I was wondering when people would bother asking me anything. I did a re-read, centered on watching vote counts, and PF, cow, Erg0 and Incog as people while I was away.

I suppose I can see why some might find Erg0 as being scummy, but looking at his vote patterns and his posts, I don't really get that feeling. I've played with him before and have read a couple of his other games, and while I usually have a hard time reading him (which could be the case now, granted) I feel he's more town than scum.

Incog, after a re-read, still feels a little off to me (hence why he is so close to being an undecided) but I saw some pro-town aspects from him too, more pro-town than what I feel is scummy about him for the time being.

Ether, well, she could be scum or she could be town. I like her as a person but I never like her playstyle...she usually comes off as an anti-town townie. Highly annoying.

Eld and cow I've already talked about.

Poker hasn't played like I've expected him to. His posts seem fake to me, like he's trying too hard to be a pro-town player and misses the mark just slightly. Some of his wording feels off to me, and this voting so far also leads me to believe he's scum. He likes to not vote a lot, and while I have done the same thing, I have a reason, and I want to know what his reason is.

[Mizzy]

Also in light of recent posts I think I am beginging to see what incognito has been talking about with respect to Mizzy. If she isn't exactly who I think she is, then she may be scum afterall. Mizzy, I have only played one game with you. Do you remember our last game together? I rarely voted in that game. I only voted 2 people and each vote was on scum. There have been times when I've held off voting.

I believe that who you think I am and what I really am are probably the same thing (other than scum.) That said, I don't think I'm going to be alive much longer.

I also feel like cow is trying to get

someone

to do

something

about his lynch:

A question to all before I'm lynched, as there's no way it's going to change unless something really weird happens.

[Mizzy]

All of you people who think I'm scum need to pay a little more attention to what I say.

[Mizzy]

Actually, that was a really good answer. I was wondering what people saw as especially scummy about him and now I know.

[Mizzy]

Incog/Erg0? Interesting.

Incog, your post #719 and #722 have some pretty good points against Erg0, which thus far he has failed to defend against effectively, but I don't even see so much as a minor FoS. Why is that?

[Mizzy]

Consider my vote to be on him already. I didn't want to place an immediate vote on him like I did last time with hasdgfas because I held an assumption about someone in this game that I'm not really sure holds true anymore so I'd rather wait before placing my vote.

That makes sense, and this may be a playstyle thing, but why no FoS or anything concrete?

[Mizzy]

Yesterday I mentioned that I didn't see him as terribly scummy but now...now I see what you guys were talking about. Scot's post and reasons were very well done.

I will re-read a little when I have a moment and get a scumdar list together.

[Mizzy]

This week, I will be mostly on V/LoA for job interviews, but I will try and post here ASAP!

[Mizzy]

There's enough breadcrumbing in here to make some Shake'n'Bake, sheesh. If you want to know why I didn't vote Tar or Glork, then go re-read me and see if you see it. I know at least one person did.

[Mizzy]

Erg0, I have a question for you and I'm sorry if it was answered already; I looked but didn't see it but you never know.

Of the three I'd rate hasdgfas as most likely to be scum, but I'd rather lynch PF before any of them.

Isn't it a better idea to lynch who you would rate more likely to be scum and rather lynch that person? Why would you have rather lynched someone you didn't feel was a good a scumbet as cow?

P.S. I still like PF for scum.

[Mizzy]

Still, being okay with a lynch of someone you find to be a worse scumbet than someone else seems like a bad townplay.

FoS: Erg0

[Mizzy]

Erg0:

Yes, I'm going to agree with you that we probably have more than one scum left, or at least a threat to town, or we'd have won already. My point though is that I don't like that you basically said, "I think x is scum but Imma vote y instead." When I don't vote for person x, I have a reason; usually that I am unsure or can accomplish the job another way. You seemed pretty sure and I doubt you have another way.

[Mizzy]

I think you're getting confused, I thought PF was scummier than hasdgfas. hasdgfas was the scummiest of those three players, but PF was the scummiest player in the entire game.

Right, so why didn't you go after his lynch if you thought he was the better scumbet?

[Mizzy]

Incog, you could have let Erg0 answer for himself; I'm sure he could have said the exact same thing to me. Last time I checked, he's capable of typing.

[Mizzy]

I think you're getting confused, I thought PF was scummier than hasdgfas. hasdgfas was the scummiest of those three players, but PF was the scummiest player in the entire game.

lol?

I was still talking with him about it. Must you always take it upon yourself to answer other people's defenses?

[Mizzy]

No, you're right, I just get very upset when other people get away with things that I got reamed sideways for doing in the past. In the future, please continue to allow people to answer with their own defenses? You're not helping.

[Mizzy]

Incog, I can understand that. Sorry I got snippy

[Mizzy]

I'm so-so on the claim. I would rather lynch someone else, if possible, but I understand the desire to lynch Erg0 anyway. However, I don't like the idea of another mislynch, either.

[Mizzy]

Since I will probably not live much longer, I did want to let everyone to know that I think Elmo is town and I think the remaining scummers are in {Incog, PF, Erg0.}

[Mizzy]

I would be fine hammering Erg0 once communications are complete. PF, I may have missed it but why are you voting no one? Elmo, you too. I'm more interested in PF's reasons because I think he's scum, though.

[Mizzy]

PF:

I have only played with you in one newbie game, so I wouldn't know how you play personally outside of newbie games.

Did you FoS him at all? I skimmed and didn't see anything but I could easily have missed it.

[Mizzy]

meh, good point. I guess you really wouldn't know since me playing with you more often still needs to happen.

And no I didn't FoS him or at least I don't remember doing it. I don't even remember if I FoSed Cow. I guess I just don't use FoS that much as other people. Practically no one I play with on IRC or scumchat (In real time) uses FoS that much. Takes too much time and isn't really important since opinions are still stated in words with a rather fast paced enviroment. I guess as long as I state my opinion, I don't really feel the need to FoS with said opinion because I feel as though I've already got my point across.

Do you feel such view of FoS's makes me scummy?

No, but I do think the lack of FoSes makes it easy for a scum role to slip under the radar. FoSes work nicely a pseudo-votes and help to show thoughts in a clear, fast, concise manner. I think you should consider using them. I would feel much better about your lack of vote and suspicions if you had used one.

[Mizzy]

This isn't really the time or place to discuss your playstyles.

Although I never FoS.

How is it not? If his playstyle means something I thought he was scummy for is something that is not scummy for him, that makes a difference to me. Just ignore it.

[Mizzy]

Can we either get an Elmo-prod or a replacement?

[Mizzy]

Oh, and I agree, I think PF hammered to look more townie, especially when I said I didn't mind hammering. There was no reason for him to hammer when he did. But I won't put him at -1L yet.

[Mizzy]

Sorry Elmo, I usually don't read sigs!

[Mizzy]

I was thinking about doing the same thing, but Scot was pretty vocal about who he thought was scum and used his vote accordingly if I remember correctly.

[Mizzy]

Poker:

I had said that I was going to hammer Erg0, too. So why not let me do the dirty work other than to specifically benefit from it?

[Mizzy]

Incog:

Your post is full of win. Hands down.

And I wouldn't mind claiming since everyone had better know who and what I am, anyway.

Now, here's a question. Why do you think it took them so long to kill Scot? Do you think he was roleblocked at all or do you think the scummers don't have a roleblocker? If set-up speculation is unwanted, please let me know. I'm just pondering things.

[Mizzy]

Poker:

I said I would be happy to do it, I didn't give a specific time. I didn't do it because a) you did and b) I was already voting someone else; you. And I already said how you would have benefited.

[Mizzy]

Oh, right, I did unvote to hammer, I think. Sorry, I'm getting ready to move and so my brain isn't working at full capacity.

[Mizzy]

I found Elmo to most likely be town after his attempted d1 lurker lynch.

[Mizzy]

So. El and el, how's that reread coming along?

Mizzy, you can probably either decide the claim order, or we can just randomize.

Okay, gimme a:

PokerFace
Incognito
Mizzy
Elmo

[Mizzy]

Oh, sorry, forgot eld. Eld after Poker, please.

PokerFace
eldarad
Incognito
Mizzy
Elmo

[Mizzy]

I will admit, that I was worried that Scot was not actually the cop for a while after has flipped town. But yes, when Erg0 claimed miller, that was a huge red flag and my fears were alleviated.

Unfortunately, I don't have a lot to add. I have my opinions on who is what, but I will have more to say, I think, once all the claims are in.

[Mizzy]

Incog:

I'm not seeing it. I still think you're town but...I can't help but question that slip confirming you.

[Mizzy]

NOW I get it. But I don't see that as a slip, really. I would have said that exactly the same way if I had thought the person I was talking to was probably pro-town. What did he think of you at that point?

[Mizzy]

I worded that wrongly, I think, and confused myself.

What I mean is that, yes, because Erg0 wasn't town, the statement might show knowledge that you are town. However, I would have said the same thing, and I am town, too. I treat people I don't suspect as though they are town or at least neutral and not scum. Plus, it could have been a scumbuddy plant. *Shrugs* I just don't like the idea that it clears you completely. I still don't think you're scum but I think you're reaching.

[Mizzy]

Poker:

I'm kind of neutral on your comments to me from before. I don't agree with your assessment of SSK (I think he was just a stupid player who didn't feel like being helpful...he was replaced and there wasn't heat on him so I tend to think he was just busy and not scum.)

I am near positive that Elmo is town because of how badly people wanted him dead d1. Scum probably saw that as an easy town target and so I thought there would be at least two scum on his wagon even before I knew it was true. It wasn't distancing; people really wanted him dead. I also don't think expected a deadline lynch. I think that scum thought it would be a great way to get a townie dead the easy way without attracting attention...they could have said, "Oh, well, I was planning to remove my pressure vote when Elmo posted more but the deadline killed him."

PF, I <3 you, but I think you're the last scum.

[Mizzy]

Correct, I am the Bouncer. Does anyone have any questions about my role actions? I doubt they gonna let me live past tonight now that the cop is dead.

[Mizzy]

You are correct.

[Mizzy]

Hmm. I'm not really sure what option I like but I do agree that if we play carefully then we have an automatic town win.

I'm going to wait on Elmo's next post to see how I feel about things since I trust his towniness.

[Mizzy]

Wait, you want to be lynched because of your

reputation

?

[Mizzy]

At this point, I think lying to save oneself would be a town AND scum thing to do. He was more than willing to kill himself, though, and I can't see scum being willing to do that.

Eld, you're next on my scumlist and I really don't like your #895.

[Mizzy]

Eld:

If he is town then allowing himself to die is anti-town so unvoting would be a pro-town thing to do. You really ARE being thick. And just because the two of you volunteered to do it doesn't mean jack shit. You didn't do it so for all we know it was a scum tactic.

Why don't we then just lynch PF and let Eld hammer him. Two birds, one stone, everyone is happy. Then if we don't win, Elmo and I know who to kill tomorrow.

[Mizzy]

A scummer would of course agree to hammer and then simply just allow someone else to do it for them or give some sort of lame excuse. Or hope that he didn't actually have to hammer. You said you WOULD hammer and now you're acting like that proves you are town. Actually hammering would have proved it. Agreeing to hammer doesn't mean anything.

Before I go through all this and make a plan, PF, can we get a concrete claim out of you? Are you or are you not the Obnoxious Drunk/supersaint?

[Mizzy]

I'm waiting for some input from Elmo, he hasn't posted nearly enough for my taste.

Anyway, PF is not getting a full pardon from me. He did enough scummy things that made me suspect him in the first place and that has not gone away.

Did we ever finish our mass claim?

[Mizzy]

I don't think Elmo claimed. Is that important?

Yes, because he's not really paying attention to this game much and part of me regrets saving his butt D1. He's done a whole lot of lurking and right now it's pretty important that he not do that.

[Mizzy]

I remembered, but I wanted an excuse to make you post

Elmo, what are your thoughts on things now?

My thought process is a whole lot of WIFOM which is why I haven't been saying much. The waters are muddy enough without me dumping a truckload of silt into the mix.

[Mizzy]

I won't be hammering a PF at all because, if he IS a supersaint, then town would be losing me as a power role. Granted, I'm not terribly useful right now, but still. Best to keep me alive until the scum finally decide to keep me around.

I also want to make it clear that I will NOT be using my power unless it's to stop a scum-powered quicklynch. So scummer, if it looks like you will be lynched, I ain't stopping it even if you beg. And this from a gal who loves begging.

[Mizzy]

Mizzy, if he's a supersaint and

anyone

who is town hammers, that's an auto-loss. This isn't even just about your power role anymore; this is about the game in general.

I'm just making sure people know that I'm not hammering you and that I'm not using my power unless absolutely necessary.

[Mizzy]

Mizzy, do you think PokerFace is in fact a SuperSaint?
Because that's, like, a quadruple bluff, or something.

Now that PokerFace has 'unclaimed' Supersaint, I am more than happy to hammer him. Just say the word and I'll unvote, you can put your vote down and I will hammer.

It doesn't matter whether I believe he is or not, it's not safe to assume he isn't at this point.

Basically, he has created himself a WIFOM paradise if he is scum and the only way to call the bluff is to hammer him. It is too dangerous for myself or Elmo to hammer, so if you still want to, then I will put him at -1L and you can hammer, but if he comes up town, Eld, you are the first person I want dead tomorrow.

[Mizzy]

I can see PF really being a supersaint and then unclaiming in order to make the last scum okay with hammering him. That scum would feel like they had an excuse, following the policy of LAL, and then he'd end up dying when he didn't think he would.

I can also see a PF-scum claiming and then unclaiming, making all the townies scared to vote for him.

Either way, it would be very dangerous for Elmo or I to hammer (or any town) in case he IS a supersaint townie because we would auto-lose.

I'm rather torn on the whole thing.

And Eld, you've been my number 2 choice for scum for a long time.

[Mizzy]

I just got here, myself. Getting ready for bed :/

[Mizzy]

No pardon for the PF, sorry

[Mizzy]

Sorry I saved Elmo's ass in the beginning, I just couldn't believe people wanted to quicklynch someone that bad.