Open 735: Watchmen Wanted - Game Over!

Kop
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Post Post #225  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:32 am

In post 219, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 215, 2 718281828459 wrote:Can we get some pressure wagons? This game is getting boring.

I would have expected you to personally vote someone here... do you not like any of the current wagons? :shifty:


Even if he did like or didn't like any of the current wagons, if he wants pressure wagons, he has to vote for someone.

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Post Post #226  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:35 am

In post 202, Ausuka wrote:i'm awful at finding scum but i'll try.

why did you vote reundo? your only other mention of him seemed far more sympathetic to him.


I dislike this post.

There is no player out of mafiascum or any mafia site that is superb at finding scum, their are good scum hunters but it's not a given fact that they will find scum all of the time, especially on day one. By saying I'm awful at finding scum, you might aswell come out and say I'm simply too lazy to find scum, but I'll try a little bit.

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Post Post #227  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:38 am

On day one, surely the strategy is to PoE your town reads, which gives a better picture than hunting for scum without any concrete information in front of you?

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Post Post #228  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:40 am

In post 210, Irrelephant11 wrote:GNB is replacing out but his slot is meh.
He spent a lot of time talking about Keyser's question
I do wonder about his question to me "You're not distancing from me, are you?" because why would I intentionally distance myself from him as either alignment, unless we were both scum? Wish I could ask him about this, but in the meantime it mayyyybe sounds like he's scum worried about failing to be on the same side of things as town? It's a stretch but it's enough (combined with NSG's early point about calling his own work out as NOT TOWNY EVERYONE) to not include him in townreads
Hopefully his replacement turns things up a notch


The problem you've got with the question you wanted to ask, is you aren't going to get the answer from the replacement. So at this stage, myself, I'm not going to read any further into GNB, I didn't have any read on him to note, but with the replacement coming in, he's getting a fresh slate at this point. I will re-read this slot once the replacement comes in and contributes to the game.

It is a bit of a odd question to be asking in all honesty.

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Post Post #229  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:18 pm

Kop is playing with some confidence and precise conviction - I believe I am t/leaning this tone.

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Post Post #230  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:40 pm

Votecount 1.08

volxen (4) - Reundo , Irrelephant11 , Sesq , Keyser Söze
2 718281828459 (1) - Kop
Dunnstral (1) - northsidegal
Reundo (1) - Ausuka
Sesq (1) - Dunnstral
[GameNBurger] (1) - volxen

Not voting: [GameNBurger], Toranaga , 2 718281828459

The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).

2 718281828459
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Post Post #231  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:37 pm

When I made the list of reads in post 151, the more people I did reads for the more tiring it got and the less I would find in each slot. Dunn received no score because there were insufficient posts to warrant any scores.

I am lost, busy, and unsure what to do next. I know I need to update reads and do scum hunting but right now that will have to wait.

This might take until Friday or Saturday. The reason I have not been scum hunting is that for me the thing that works best is to make one post per day that goes off of everything that happened since the previous day. I have a lot less time than before to use the site. Anything that involves engaging people in back-and-forth dialogue hard right now when I also have to look at everything else going on.
Retired Account. I have no replacement.

Please be kind to Allomancer and join the nomic game: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=78211

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Post Post #232  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:34 pm

In post 176, Dunnstral wrote:I mean, that looks like exactly what you're saying here, except replace that with "Kop's commas are scummy"

i began a response to this a day or so ago but never finished it

the statement "kop's commas are scummy" implies that in a vacuum i think that the use of commas is scum-indicative (patently absurd). the punctuation itself is secondary to my main point - i noticed a stylistic difference between the way someone was typing here and the way that i remember that same person typing in a previous game as scum. i don't think anyone would possibility dispute that that has a very good chance of being in some way meaningful.

-shrug-

you're being far less reasonable than i typically expect you to be, and i'm not sure if i should take it as scum-indicative or not

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Post Post #233  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:37 pm

In post 182, 2 718281828459 wrote:I see nothing that is worth my attention.

In post 183, Irrelephant11 wrote:then make something
In post 184, Irrelephant11 wrote:VOTE: 2.718

why do you think that comment warrants a vote? very interested in your thought process here - perhaps this won't hold true for e*12 as a person specifically, but i would always imagine that scum in that situation would either post nothing at all or would try to come up with something they don't actually care about to talk about in order to look engaged. i actually townread him for that comment.

it reminds me of the way blackstar played in open 728, if anyone cares at all. if someone wants me to elaborate on this i can.

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Post Post #234  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:41 pm

In post 187, Keyser Söze wrote:Not sure I buy into NSG’s “staccato sentence/comma” theory - unless you can clearly show Kop only posting this style as scum, I think it’s too reachy for my taste.

wasn't much of a "theory" in the first place, nor something to "buy into" before more research was done. despite how dunnstral may want you to look at it, it was really only ever something that stuck out to me as being potentially a thing / relevant, hence my asking anyone else for information. honestly, i still haven't done the meta on kop that i wanted to.

In post 206, Irrelephant11 wrote:Because NSG is hard townreading you and one of the following is true:
-She's town and probably correct
-She's scum and correct
-You're both scum <--- in this situation, I have no useful reads on any players, so I'm assuming it's not this

ah, the mathdino-style reads. i love it!

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Post Post #235  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:43 pm

i vaguely remember irrelephant having a very good scumgame which makes me hesitant to do this but i think i'd like to townread him for the string of posts starting at around maybe

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Post Post #236  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:51 pm

it angers me the way dunnstral has framed my argument, genuinely.

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Post Post #237  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:26 pm

It’s been somewhat hard to try and get reads on everyone since the game started out with a lot of activity in the beginning and then quickly died way down, but here are some preliminary reads that I have so far:

Town Reads:

Keyser - I actually like that he started the game by asking about hypoclaiming in , it showed that right off the bat he wanted to strategize on how to potentially make things more difficult for the scumteam. This is only my second game on this site so I don’t have any firsthand experience with hypoclaiming or its effectiveness, but I think it’s not likely that a member of the scumteam would suggest this as a tactic, since it could, theoretically, allow the watcher to reveal who they got a guilty on while making it more difficult for the scumteam to identify the real watcher.

Overall, I feel like he is someone that has been genuinely trying to gamesolve and move the game forward. He hasn’t done anything that comes across as scummy to me.

Null Reads:

northsidegal – I’m not really sure what to make of the whole comma’s thing. It seems like a stretch, but maybe she will have more to say about it.

GameNBurger – As I mentioned in , GNB is currently a null read for me as most of his content is about the math proof, not wanting to be townread for the math proof, hypoclaiming, and lurking. I originally asked him why he felt the need to go out of his way to tell all of us not to townread him in , as I found this a bit suspicious and thought his response to my question might potentially be alignment indicative. However, I found his response in to be fairly neutral, and not enough in and of itself to make me lean towards townreading him or scumreading him. Of course, he is being replaced so I will have to see what his replacement does, but for now this slot is still null for me.

Scum Reads:

2.718 – I really didn’t like his post-RVS opening in . I feel like he tried to completely misrepresent what Keyser really meant when he said that he didn’t want to talk about hypoclaiming/setup past page 1, and even after Keyser clarified this in (that he wasn’t “forbidding” discussion but rather that he didn’t want to partake in it himself), 2.718 still continued to press the issue in .

I also didn’t like that in 2.718 was quick to side with Reundo in the Keyser vs Reundo argument that was going on at the time. 2.718 made the comment here that “Reundo's 46 is a little annoying but I like how he looked at everyone”. At the time, Reundo only had two posts, and , in which he mainly focused on attacking Keyser, with only brief references made to Sesq, GameNBurger, and northsidegal in . 2.718’s post made it sound like Reundo was taking a balanced look at “everyone”, when in reality he was primarily just hammering down on Keyser. I feel like this was a very weak reason for 2.718 to jump in so quickly to side with Reundo.

I also find his town read of Reundo questionable in . He gave him a town score of 4.5, and all he really had to say was that Reundo’s post in was “great”, without stating why he thought it was great or pro-town. So once again, he is defending Reundo without really providing any explanation or reasoning. And then in , he literally says “I see nothing that is worth my attention”, as if he is simply not interested in trying to find scum anymore.

VOTE: 2 718281828459

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Post Post #238  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:25 am

In post 237, volxen wrote: Keyser - I actually like that he started the game by asking about hypoclaiming in , it showed that right off the bat he wanted to strategize on how to potentially make things more difficult for the scumteam. This is only my second game on this site so I don’t have any firsthand experience with hypoclaiming or its effectiveness, but I think it’s not likely that a member of the scumteam would suggest this as a tactic, since it could, theoretically, allow the watcher to reveal who they got a guilty on while making it more difficult for the scumteam to identify the real watcher.

Overall, I feel like he is someone that has been genuinely trying to gamesolve and move the game forward. He hasn’t done anything that comes across as scummy to me.


I'm not sure why you focused on Keyser's hypoclaiming post so much as a reason to town-read him when he specifically said it was NAI and doesn't really relate to him "genuinely trying to gamesolve".

In post 237, volxen wrote:northsidegal – I’m not really sure what to make of the whole comma’s thing. It seems like a stretch, but maybe she will have more to say about it.


She expanded on her reasoning just before you posted your reads list. Are you satisfied with her explanation? Is there anything troubling you about it?

In post 237, volxen wrote:2.718 – I really didn’t like his post-RVS opening in . I feel like he tried to completely misrepresent what Keyser really meant when he said that he didn’t want to talk about hypoclaiming/setup past page 1, and even after Keyser clarified this in (that he wasn’t “forbidding” discussion but rather that he didn’t want to partake in it himself), 2.718 still continued to press the issue in .

I also didn’t like that in 2.718 was quick to side with Reundo in the Keyser vs Reundo argument that was going on at the time. 2.718 made the comment here that “Reundo's 46 is a little annoying but I like how he looked at everyone”. At the time, Reundo only had two posts, and , in which he mainly focused on attacking Keyser, with only brief references made to Sesq, GameNBurger, and northsidegal in . 2.718’s post made it sound like Reundo was taking a balanced look at “everyone”, when in reality he was primarily just hammering down on Keyser. I feel like this was a very weak reason for 2.718 to jump in so quickly to side with Reundo.

I also find his town read of Reundo questionable in . He gave him a town score of 4.5, and all he really had to say was that Reundo’s post in was “great”, without stating why he thought it was great or pro-town. So once again, he is defending Reundo without really providing any explanation or reasoning. And then in , he literally says “I see nothing that is worth my attention”, as if he is simply not interested in trying to find scum anymore.


This isn't a terrible read, but it doesn't feel like you've considered 2.178's scum motive all that much. For instance, what would scum!2.718 gain from taking my side even as the Keyser wagon was waning?

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Post Post #239  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:53 am

VOTE: volxen

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Post Post #240  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:22 am

In post 232, northsidegal wrote:i noticed a stylistic difference between the way someone was typing here and the way that i remember that same person typing in a previous game as scum.


OK, if you want you can go more in depth with this because I have low experience with kop and nobody else is pointing at their posting style

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Post Post #241  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:10 am

did we lolhammered volxen?

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Post Post #242  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:12 am

In post 203, Flicker wrote:Votecount 1.07

2 718281828459 (2) - Irrelephant11 , Kop
Reundo (2) - Ausuka , Keyser Söze
Dunnstral (1) - northsidegal
Sesq (1) - Dunnstral
Keyser Söze (1) - Reundo
[GameNBurger] (1) - volxen

Not voting: [GameNBurger], Toranaga , Sesq , 2 718281828459

The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).


reundo, irrelephant, sesq, keyser, ausuka voted volxen

ok so he is l-2

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Post Post #243  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:13 am

I see this picked up remotely but I'm not gonna put any effort in it just yet

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Post Post #244  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:51 am

In post 220, Reundo wrote:I don't really understand the town-reads of volxen. Everything he's posted seems like surface-level scum-hunting based mostly around points that have already been brought up by others, and as a whole it seems like he's much more interested in garnering why player X scum-reads player Y than providing scum-reads of his own. I'm more worried about him than 2.718 at the moment.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: volxen

In post 221, Irrelephant11 wrote:VOTE: volxen

In post 222, Sesq wrote:Yeah, i can see that

VOTE: volxen

In post 224, Keyser Söze wrote:VOTE: volxen

:twisted:

In post 239, Ausuka wrote:VOTE: volxen


This momentum is pretty weird - I don't think Reundo's case in 220 is that compelling. Sesq looks bad here.

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Post Post #245  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:51 am

Who was town reading Volxen?

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Post Post #246  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:52 am

In post 222, Sesq wrote:Yeah, i can see that


Can you point it out for me?

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Post Post #247  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:53 am

In post 245, Dunnstral wrote:Who was town reading Volxen?

In post 193, Dunnstral wrote:Volx looks town to me


You were? Also 2.718 in his reads list. What's not compelling about my case?

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Post Post #248  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:09 am

In post 233, northsidegal wrote:
In post 182, 2 718281828459 wrote:I see nothing that is worth my attention.

In post 183, Irrelephant11 wrote:then make something
In post 184, Irrelephant11 wrote:VOTE: 2.718

why do you think that comment warrants a vote? very interested in your thought process here - perhaps this won't hold true for e*12 as a person specifically, but i would always imagine that scum in that situation would either post nothing at all or would try to come up with something they don't actually care about to talk about in order to look engaged. i actually townread him for that comment.

it reminds me of the way blackstar played in open 728, if anyone cares at all. if someone wants me to elaborate on this i can.

I agree that 2.718 was towny in that post. I was "making something", both as an example and to try to get the game going
In post 236, northsidegal wrote:it angers me the way dunnstral has framed my argument, genuinely.

Ehhh I think it's tvt if I had to guess. Feels like you're saying "his posting style is slightly different, I see it in the punctuation" which I guess is something in this mostly slow game, but dunnstral is right that it comes across as a little silly for those of us who don't see what you're talking about intuitively
In post 237, volxen wrote:It’s been somewhat hard to try and get reads on everyone since the game started out with a lot of activity in the beginning and then quickly died way down, but here are some preliminary reads that I have so far:

Town Reads:

Keyser - I actually like that he started the game by asking about hypoclaiming in , it showed that right off the bat he wanted to strategize on how to potentially make things more difficult for the scumteam. This is only my second game on this site so I don’t have any firsthand experience with hypoclaiming or its effectiveness, but I think it’s not likely that a member of the scumteam would suggest this as a tactic, since it could, theoretically, allow the watcher to reveal who they got a guilty on while making it more difficult for the scumteam to identify the real watcher.

Overall, I feel like he is someone that has been genuinely trying to gamesolve and move the game forward. He hasn’t done anything that comes across as scummy to me.

Null Reads:

northsidegal – I’m not really sure what to make of the whole comma’s thing. It seems like a stretch, but maybe she will have more to say about it.

GameNBurger – As I mentioned in , GNB is currently a null read for me as most of his content is about the math proof, not wanting to be townread for the math proof, hypoclaiming, and lurking. I originally asked him why he felt the need to go out of his way to tell all of us not to townread him in , as I found this a bit suspicious and thought his response to my question might potentially be alignment indicative. However, I found his response in to be fairly neutral, and not enough in and of itself to make me lean towards townreading him or scumreading him. Of course, he is being replaced so I will have to see what his replacement does, but for now this slot is still null for me.

Scum Reads:

2.718 – I really didn’t like his post-RVS opening in . I feel like he tried to completely misrepresent what Keyser really meant when he said that he didn’t want to talk about hypoclaiming/setup past page 1, and even after Keyser clarified this in (that he wasn’t “forbidding” discussion but rather that he didn’t want to partake in it himself), 2.718 still continued to press the issue in .

I also didn’t like that in 2.718 was quick to side with Reundo in the Keyser vs Reundo argument that was going on at the time. 2.718 made the comment here that “Reundo's 46 is a little annoying but I like how he looked at everyone”. At the time, Reundo only had two posts, and , in which he mainly focused on attacking Keyser, with only brief references made to Sesq, GameNBurger, and northsidegal in . 2.718’s post made it sound like Reundo was taking a balanced look at “everyone”, when in reality he was primarily just hammering down on Keyser. I feel like this was a very weak reason for 2.718 to jump in so quickly to side with Reundo.

I also find his town read of Reundo questionable in . He gave him a town score of 4.5, and all he really had to say was that Reundo’s post in was “great”, without stating why he thought it was great or pro-town. So once again, he is defending Reundo without really providing any explanation or reasoning. And then in , he literally says “I see nothing that is worth my attention”, as if he is simply not interested in trying to find scum anymore.

VOTE: 2 718281828459

I think that this is mostly not a very good post and is honestly probably scum (one townread, one scumread, and two nullreads? Why include the nullreads, if it can safely be assumed they're at the same level as anyone you didn't mention? Seems like fluffposting, or posting about a scum partner for the sake of it (note to self: if this flips scum, look closer at NSG and GNB's replacement)).
However, at the same time, I do find the 2.718/Reundo interactions interesting.
In post 243, Toranaga wrote:I see this picked up remotely but I'm not gonna put any effort in it just yet

Dumb
Potentially looking to get the same towncred NSG just said 2.718 should have for his earlier "meh" post
In post 244, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 220, Reundo wrote:I don't really understand the town-reads of volxen. Everything he's posted seems like surface-level scum-hunting based mostly around points that have already been brought up by others, and as a whole it seems like he's much more interested in garnering why player X scum-reads player Y than providing scum-reads of his own. I'm more worried about him than 2.718 at the moment.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: volxen

In post 221, Irrelephant11 wrote:VOTE: volxen

In post 222, Sesq wrote:Yeah, i can see that

VOTE: volxen

In post 224, Keyser Söze wrote:VOTE: volxen

:twisted:

In post 239, Ausuka wrote:VOTE: volxen


This momentum is pretty weird - I don't think Reundo's case in 220 is that compelling. Sesq looks bad here.

Agreed, though I was sort of hoping we'd get to L-1 before this was said so as to give scum maximum scumtelling opportunity (e.g. if someone placed intent to hammer they'd be realllll scummy because this isn't really a case)
Sesq is definitely the worst here because my assumption is that Keyer's vote mirrored mine (getting a wagon going) and Ausuka's was based on volxen's more recent scummy post
In post 247, Reundo wrote:
In post 245, Dunnstral wrote:Who was town reading Volxen?

In post 193, Dunnstral wrote:Volx looks town to me


You were? Also 2.718 in his reads list. What's not compelling about my case?

Do you actually think your case is worth L-2? I'm not townreading volxen but neither am I really townreading you yet and I think it's obvious that regardless of your or volxen's alignment someone on this wagon is likely opportunistic scum

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Post Post #249  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:40 pm

not like i had any strong scumreads before
1312

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