Mini Normal 2021: Game Over

[Tchill13]

Are you hard claiming that?

[Tchill13]

Town cop and you've got a guilty on tchill?

[Tchill13]

Say you've got a guilty on me. Say it.

[Tchill13]

NOBODY counter. Nobody claim anything else.

[Tchill13]

Good. 2 scum have been caught. We can go about this one of two ways.

We can lynch me, lynch Nero then lynch oath

Or we can lynch Nero, his scum flip will lock town me then we lynch oath.

Let the town decide. I do not care. At least Once scum is GAURANTEED lynched and a townie for 2 scum is fine if I'm lynched first.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: tchill

I wanted out of this game. No better way to go out than taking 2 scum with me. I appreciate it Nero. Terrible terrible play from you.

[Tchill13]

Lynch Nero, then boris or oath, then mumble. After my town flip.


Boris could probably be scum here.

Don't lynch Krazy or osuka.

Good luck town. Nero I appreciate you giving me a reason to be lynched.

Nero is probably pushing a fake guilty on me because I'll flip town then oath will be lynched as town. I'd argue this town clears oath. I don't think it's a good idea to risk oath scum though. Better off lynching her.

[Tchill13]

im dying tonight as soon as tchill flips scum. Lych Krazy tomorrow.

If there is a world I can be lynched after Nero I'd like that.

Nero said he could provide a fake case as scum. Why would a town cop who has a guilty even say that?

[Tchill13]

Boris, mumble, Nero scum team. Lynch oath as policy.

I was worried about boris' slot when tw was there.

Mumble wagon did begin, then stall then we had a fake guilty. Mumble needs to be lynched.

I've done my job.

[Tchill13]

If I'm lynched Idc how many of yall think oath and me are TvT. Even if you have reason.

Failing to lynch oath will be a hug blunder with the available wifom for scum to perform at lylo.

LYNCH NERO, OATH, MUMBLE, BORIS.

[Tchill13]

UNVOTE:

Earn it Nero.

[Tchill13]

Why am I listing 4? It's usual for scum to have 3 ppl. If I'm wrong oath can't survive.

It's not a good idea to vote town. Ik I'm town.

I only self voted because my flip condemns two ppl.

I won't self vote again.

[Tchill13]

I'm probably gonna be lynched today because of how terrible a play it is for scum to fake a guilty d2. When there was still a chance I'd be lynched anyway.

Why would you even try to make sense of me proving I'd want oath lynched as town even if he was town IF YOU ALREADY HAD A GUILTY ON ME?

[Tchill13]

I'm at. Get together atm please don't lynch until tonight.

[Tchill13]

Didn't Nero replace in day 2? So every post he has made should have been made with the knowledge I am scum.

This doesn't seem to be the case.

[Tchill13]

osuka:

osuka, ceejayvinoya

Oath:

Tommy Egan, GuerillaWoo

TChill13:

Oath, Sergtacos

ceejayvinoya:

TChill13, Boris, Yuurei, ofrhz, Mumble, Lalendra, Gustavo (LYNCH)

Nero Cain replaces GuerillaWoo

[Tchill13]

Nero has tunneled me since replacing in.

He continues to give explanations for why "tchill done such and such and it was weird "

No from your perspective it wasn't weird. From your perspective you know I'm scum already right?

Why would you be reading into anything I was saying at that point other than to dispute it to steer town towards voting me.

There was no dispute. You naked tunneled. Seems to me you planned on outing or you would have disputed more. Why didn't you out immediately if that's the case? Did you really think saying "tchill is scum" would drive everyone to vote me without you needing to out your information? If you didn't why didn't you out immediately? The lack of dispute to persuade the rest of town to vote me is the reason this is a fake claim.

[Tchill13]

The town cop would want to steer town towards voting his guilty without outing himself this early in the game.

Nero shows no effort in doing that at all. Why would the town cop play in such a way he HAS to out his info to vote scum? He didn't discuss or dispute. There's no benefits to playing town cop the way he has day 2. There's more benefits in mecanical ly arguing against scum to manipulate the town to vote scum.

[Tchill13]

I'm arguing that you should have picked a style to approach this from and you chose neither. Why didn't you choose one or the other?

[Tchill13]

Voting you lynches one scum.

Voting me actually lynches two scum

[Tchill13]

What's tchill flipping green do atm?

[Tchill13]

Lynch Nero. He's scum. I've explained why and there's no argument against it.

[Tchill13]

Why would a cop play this day phase with a guilty in the manner in which you have?

[Tchill13]

Your iso is nothing but deflection and void of reason.

Either a cop with a guilty outs his info immediately or debates guilty scum methodically with intention of steering town towards scum without having to out his info. Your iso is void of debate. Every post you've made is a post with the knowledge I'm scum. That should be more than enough motivation to dispute me. You never did.

[Tchill13]

Your bad?

Lmao. That's weak. That's what you want to double down with?

[Tchill13]

An investigative needs to clear oath.

Nobody needs to counter claim Nero.

[Tchill13]

Why would a cop play this day phase with a guilty in the manner in which you have?

b/c im bad

If this doesn't change anything I can't do anything else to get yall to lynch Nero. Ik how absurd a scum fake cop claim is on day 2 and I can't blame yall for lynching me first.

[Tchill13]

I said he SHOULD have tried to steer town Ina direction to lynch me without outing his info.

Did you ever see him do that oath? Methodically? With reason?

[Tchill13]

He went from screaming "tchill is scum" to I have a guilty.

With nothing in between.

[Tchill13]

His cop play here it terrible and his scum play here is worse.

I have nothing to lose as my town flip condemns 2 ppl.

[Tchill13]

OK.

Unless oath is cleared by an investigative she needs to be lynched. Nero first. Oath next. Then mumble/boris.

[Tchill13]

Can't wait for oath to beg for forgiveness. She's scum. Town don't say that.

[Tchill13]

Krazy any questions for me?

[Tchill13]

Krazy you disagree with my assessment of how terribly he play his guilty from the lack of disputing me?

[Tchill13]

I'll be at a cpu in 2-3 hours. I can answer any and all questions then if you'd like. I'm fine with being lynched.

[Tchill13]

You still begging for forgiveness when I flip town right?

I played at my level day 1. I played at oaths level day 2.

[Tchill13]

I mean seriously ill be as cooperative as possible. I've failed to see where Nero played in a way that showed he had a guilty while trying to steer town in a direction to lynch me. Prove that.

Osuka even pointed that out before his "guilty".

[Tchill13]

Man oath looks like an idiot if she's town here.

Town don't do that. Town don't make statements like she's making.

[Tchill13]

i think you're full of it and you can't give me reasons im scum.

whats my alignment?

I doubt I can get a tchill lynch tomorrow by myself but I'd begrudgingly agree to this plan of attack if we just can't get tchill lynched today.

I want everyone to weigh in on my proposal- I'm dead serious. I want TChill gone because we'll never win if you guys aren't interested in lynching him. He's scum, it's obvious.

IF I WAS SCUM IT'S NOT OBVIOUS. YOU COULDN'T EVEN GET THREE VOTES ON ME DAY 1.

You're full of it. You have been the whole game.

Oath thinks you are super-obvious scum. Just b/c others don't agree doesn't mean her POV is incorrect.

These are the reactionary ravings of flailing scum that's desperately trying to throw things against the wall and hope they stick.

You caught me. I'm basic af scum... Such an ignorant read Nero Cain. So lazy....

Just because others don't agree doesn't mean I AM scum. Such a weak case. I thought you'd do better than that garbage when you said you could make a fake case.

I mean this isn't really a "case" and I never said it was. Sure, I *could* take this reason and hang my hat on it b/c it

DOES

reinforce my belief that you are scum but I mean, come on....you're so panicked after two votes on you that you feel the need to react and discredit. It's disgusting.

ppl get REALLY offended when you call them scum-regardless of alignment. Its a maturity thing and depends on the playerlist I guess.

That's some really bad discrediting. So Oath didn't have a guilty on tchill d1 she (and I) can still scum read his scummy play.

I don't think you know what that means. Me being lazy and not writting out a full list of reasons for why I believe that you are scum doesn't mean I'm ignoring content or sitting on the sidelines.

what are his "town" posts?

where's my case?

I just like to watch you sweat.

if this is your case, it's pretty shit and you just highlighted that

I never knew that. The save Tchill movement is in full effect now.

oh nero you've mistaken yourself

this isn't the save tchill movement, this is the stop shit pushes movement

if you're confusing the two so easily that might say something about your push

Isn't attempting to discredit a case (that I haven't even posted!) one in the same?

Why do I have to keep repeating things to you and Boris? I have a guilty on Tchill and he needs to be lynched today.

im dying tonight as soon as tchill flips scum. Lych Krazy tomorrow.

These are not posts from someone that has a guilty on me.

Krazy could be scum.

[Tchill13]

whats my motivation as town to keep oath in the game if i believe she's town?

I have much more to lose as town if i never lynch her and she's scum opposed to lynching her and she's town. I can work with players that will work with me. I can justify my actions here.

Oath can't, as either alignment.

I have no clue what this is. She's death tunneling you and you have to get her lynched/killed. "If I'm scum why didn't I kill her last night?!" sure, its WIFOM but getting your biggest opponent nightkilled possibly brings heat on you. You don't believe she's town so...

Refusal to take a stance on oath.

[Tchill13]

How does Neros guilty give him a pass to refuse to debate with me then out himself?

That's terrible cop play given its day 2.

[Tchill13]

Nero, oath, (boris/mumble/Krazy)

[Tchill13]

Nero what are your other reads?

[Tchill13]

OK you took more effort to discredit that post than any other post before you outted your guilty.

You realize that right?

[Tchill13]

Am I scum because I believe Nero's cop claim despite it being kinda shitty? You were already a top wagon, why on earth would scum fakeclaim to kill you?

No he just mentioned you.

Hypothetically speaking if scum were to have done exactly that what would you think of that play?

[Tchill13]

Someone investigative oath.

Nobody counter claim, ever.

Nero then oath (unless town cleared and that info needs to be outed d3 seeing how we still have a protective)

If oath is cleared lynch mumble or boris d4

If oath isn't cleared lynch oath d4 due to the fact scum could use her in lylo to great effect.

I'm a VT.

Oath you'll be the first to beg to me. Nero fooled you all but I can't blame you for not thinking scum would do something so odd. My point stands on the fact he should have been lynched due to his cop play not making any sense.

I'd confidently say multiple scum are on my wagon.

[Tchill13]

I'd like to hear from osuka and lalendra (the conftown player). Idc though. It's a blessing to not have to deal with a few of yall anymore.

I really appreciate that oath.

[Tchill13]

And what looks more likely?

My recent posts coming from scum that's about to be lynched?

Neros whole day where he had a guilty on me?

[Tchill13]

I'll shut up after this.

I would very much so recommend that people demand read list from Nero and oath before my flip.

The more info my flip brings the better.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: tchill

[Tchill13]

I will say that as scum you put maximum effort into this game and for that I commend you! Great job!

How terrible of a scum game I have played if I was scum.

[Tchill13]

Let me get this straight...

I should advocate for a town lynch when Ik lynching scum would keep a townie alive? That's the proper way to play this?

[Tchill13]

UNVOTE:

Specifically to annoy oath.

[Tchill13]

It's sad because of your poor play an investigative shot will have to be wasted on you oath.

[Tchill13]

D2 was theatrics for me yes. 100 percent.

So you should have seen the look on my face when scum actually outed themself lmao.

[Tchill13]

I mean I still have the same stance with oath. I think they're town. I hope they're scum.

[Tchill13]

You don't know what to do here lol. I've done stiff that make zero sense to scum.

Why are you still trying to incriminate me? You know I'm scum right? My flip condemns you. The hesitation makes sense from my pov but not everyone else's. I like to watch you squirm Nero.

[Tchill13]

I mean I still have the same stance with oath. I think they're town. I hope they're scum.

I think you're scum and I hope you're scum.

It's weird that you're saying I'm town again.

Actually... it's just good ol TChill flopping.

You've played one of the worst town games I've ever seen from a player that actually gave effort.

If you're scum your better than I thought you were but that'd mean Nero acted on his own before discussing with his teammates.

So I hope you're scum but ik you're probably town. Just doesn't make sense for you to be scum with Nero.

I can not make it more clear. Short of being cleared by an investigative oath has to be lynched due to the wifom scum could perform.

[Tchill13]

you think oath is town despite trying to lynch them and lied to me when I asked if you had a town read on them? man ur scum play sucks

Are you sad that you've actually made one of the worst scum plays I've ever seen?

[Tchill13]

I'm not. Just showing the amount of your crazy and being sympathetic that your team had to deal with you.

Get on with the questions. We both know what's going on here. You're not backing out of a scenario where either you or I are lynched.

DO NOT COUNTER CLAIM NERO. I CAN'T SAY THIS ENOUGH.

[Tchill13]

I'm very interested in these questions. Terrible fake claim. He realizes this is a terrible play.

Should be a sight to see here.

[Tchill13]

These questions have to be worth putting a hold on lynching scum too lmao.

Good luck with that.

This is coming from the guy who said he played town cop the way he did "because he's bad"

Dance monkey dance.

[Tchill13]

you think oath is town despite trying to lynch them and lied to me when I asked if you had a town read on them? man ur scum play sucks

Are you sad that you've actually made one of the worst scum plays I've ever seen?

yes

Also is this a scum claim?

[Tchill13]

So how long do we wait for the questions until we call it stalling?

[Tchill13]

I mean he must know what the questions are he wants to ask.

He's found scum right? These should be important questions that he's already formulated. To pause lynching scum.

Which he knows he's caught.

[Tchill13]

Counter claiming is so stupid here and it's the only play he has left that would give scum any kind of benefit from what he just did.

He knows he made a bad scum play. He's just buying time now.

[Tchill13]

You think Nero and me could be scum? Together?

[Tchill13]

Anything to justify reading me as scum right?

[Tchill13]

Literally the worst game I've ever seen someone play if you're town. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard that shows a clear bias in thought process.

[Tchill13]

If Nero flips red you'd still think I was scum weren't you?

[Tchill13]

Have I been lynched yet?

My lynch nets one scum for sure in Nero.

My lynch gets you killed lmfao. Town doesn't clear you or kill you then it's not my fault.

Until I'm lynched Nero can be lynched before me. His scum flip should clear me. Do you agree with that or not?

[Tchill13]

I mean it's a win/win for me atm.

That's why Nero backed off. He realized how terrible his scum play has been.

[Tchill13]

you think oath is town despite trying to lynch them and lied to me when I asked if you had a town read on them? man ur scum play sucks

Are you sad that you've actually made one of the worst scum plays I've ever seen?

yes

[Tchill13]

Wait me flipping town doesn't mean he's scum?

No its not null. He's scum.

[Tchill13]

So if Nero flips scum after faking a guilty on me you'd still push me as scum right oath?

[Tchill13]

you think oath is town despite trying to lynch them and lied to me when I asked if you had a town read on them? man ur scum play sucks

Are you sad that you've actually made one of the worst scum plays I've ever seen?

yes

[Tchill13]

Idk what kind of scum you play with. To make such elaborate plays.

I'd think you were a genuis. You gloat as if catching me is an achievement when this would be my worst scum game ever.

So you obviously can't be a genuis. Idk your deal. It's a weird one though.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: tchill

The thing is here Its justified because he's showing hesitation. Which clearly means he doesn't want me to flip rn. This means it'd be beneficial to scum if I didn't self vote.

Lynch Nero tomorrow. Investgatie and out your clear of oath tomorrow. If that can't happen. Lynch oath tomorrow.

[Tchill13]

Somebody hammer. Immediately.

[Tchill13]

krazy you got nothing to say to me?

even in the event im town? if im scum what you say becomes void upon the flip anyway.

[Tchill13]

of have you voted me? if not please do.

[Tchill13]

You still begging for forgiveness when I flip town right?

I played at my level day 1. I played at oaths level day 2.

Sure, TChill you flip town and I am groveling- You won't though.

And unforunately you didn't play at my level. On Oath's level we catch scumz, you have done none of that.

I will say that as scum you put maximum effort into this game and for that I commend you! Great job!

How terrible of a scum game I have played if I was scum.

[Tchill13]

I would imagiine nero decided to fake claim under the assumption that 2 town has already died, i would die, then another town that makes 4. He would die and another town that makes 5. Had a cop counter claimed then we lynched oath due to me flipping town that gives scum a good shot to win.

He seemed to hesitate after he realized oath could still be cleared. I'm assuming that was scums plan if they worked together.

If they didn't then idk what nero is doing.

YOU STILL HAVE TO INVESTIGATE OR KILL OATH DUE TO POSSIBLE WIFOM IN LYLO.

even though my town flip and nero's scum flip actually points to oath being town, because if nero and oath were scum together then oath would obvioulsy oppose this plan due to the fact it would lead to her death anyways after my town flip.

[Tchill13]

You never answered my question about the Sand Snakes. IDK. Play Overwatch? I main Symmetra.

post game we can be friends, i play overwatch on PC. RN i need you to work on this game lol.

[Tchill13]

so i can confidently say if the ppl playing scum are working together and actually have any sense.

Oath is town.

Like, oath is near lock town lol. Sadly you can't assume players are "good" so that maybe a stretch to clear her. I think my logic is clear and reasonable though.

Now he fake claimed after a mumble wagon stalled. I'm pretty sketched out about that. Diverts attention from mumble. Regardless...

lynch nero, lynch the lurkers

if krazy is in lylo i'd definitely lynch him in lylo.

OATH CANT REACH LYLO UNLESS CLEARED DUE TO WIFOM POTENTIAL.

also... I trust nobody this game, maybe osuka, to lead town to a victory.

[Tchill13]

UNVOTE:

[Tchill13]

Wait me flipping town doesn't mean he's scum?

No its not null. He's scum.

So if Nero flips scum after faking a guilty on me you'd still push me as scum right oath?

its obvious you keep up with the thread without answering oath. Answer these next time you post please.

[Tchill13]

scum aren't gonna be stupid just to be stupid. they had to decide faking a guilty was beneficial somehow. I believe i just told you how they thought that.

[Tchill13]

You dead son, and if you're town then you should be proud that you made Nero basically throw as scum lol. No framers in normal setups, there's nothing that's interesting to think about here. I'm basically switching to Overwatch at this point. I kind of want Lalendra to check in, although I don't know what anyone could say at this point that makes any difference whatsoever.

what if nero was lynched instead of me? and he flipped scum?

I've provided enough reasonable doubt to the way he played cop with a guilty for it to at least be an option.

[Tchill13]

vote:Tchill

he voted me in his first post osuka.

[Tchill13]

a cop with an early guilty finds holes in scums discussions and steers town in that direction to lynch said player so the cop can keep his role hidden and try to get more guilties.

cops do not blindly point and say he's scum then out themself when nobody else is near a lynch on day 2. that doesn't happen from an experienced player who literally claimed it happened that way "because he's bad."

[Tchill13]

also... I trust nobody this game, maybe osuka, to lead town to a victory.

oh stop it youre gonna make me blush

well umm... compared to everyone else in this game you are a mafia genius lmao. I'm pretty sure you're town. I hope you are, I really need you to be.

[Tchill13]

nero joined in 2009. Thats cop play from someone who's played mafia for almost a decade???

whats bad is im arguing its just as bad, if not worse, scum play from the same person lol. Of course i explained the logic and it's worth it for scum to do that if the cop counter claims and if oath is lynched because i flip town.

[Tchill13]

vote:Tchill

he voted me in his first post osuka.

and then he invited you a few posts back under a fairly bullshit premise

yeah he realized oath can be cleared and the investigative isn't gonna counter claim him.

The fake guilty is only worth it if they draw out the real investigative and get oath lynched due to me flipping town.

look its a game theory discussion at this point. You don't know im town. So i get that. Please just follow the train of thought.

Why would nero fake a guilty d2? What can make that beneficial to scum? Well 1 Oath has tunneled me and scum would know we were both town and 2 they can lure out the cop.

this is biased, ik im town, That does make sense though in what would be a hypothetical world for you right?

[Tchill13]

Wait me flipping town doesn't mean he's scum?

No its not null. He's scum.

So if Nero flips scum after faking a guilty on me you'd still push me as scum right oath?

its obvious you keep up with the thread without answering oath. Answer these next time you post please.

[Tchill13]

oath your play is so beneficial to scum it inspired a gambit.

IDK how else to justify what scum is doing here.

Krazy said i flip scum 1000 percent of the time.

You townies need to chill with how sure you are.

[Tchill13]

osuka, Ofrhz

talk to me. You two are my biggest TR's other than oath due to whats transpired.

Boris/nero are scum im pretty sure. 3rd is in the lurkers im assuming.

[Tchill13]

I didn't answer because you're assuming things... You stated that a scum Nero means you're town. It doesn't.

YOUR FLIP AS SCUM DOES NOT MAKE NERO CONFIRMED TOWN
NERO FLIPPING SCUM DOES NOT MAKE YOU CONFIRMED TOWN. - but Nero will not be lynched before you anyway.

YOU FLIPPING TOWN WOULD MAKE NERO CONFIRMED SCUM AND THE NECESSARY LYNCH FOR THE DAY

So what makes the scum gambit worth it if im town?

[Tchill13]

it practically clears you. So i'm pretty confused honestly.

Who do you think he could be scum with? other than me?

im weary of boris and mumble, he outed while the mumble wagon was growing.

boris replaced into the TW slot.

krazy acts like i already flipped scum...

[Tchill13]

and he obviously has some good questions to ask.

[Tchill13]

you think oath is town despite trying to lynch them and lied to me when I asked if you had a town read on them? man ur scum play sucks

Are you sad that you've actually made one of the worst scum plays I've ever seen?

yes

[Tchill13]

im 22 and your play here is laughable.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: tchill

you know im flipping town.

you better beg oath.

Bad town play form oath, bad scum play from nero. At least that's entertaining and my theatrics resulted in something. I di not enjoy tunneling and couldn't even bring myself to do it correctly because its absolutely garbage and does nothing but let scum manipulate you. I hope your scum oath or else this has been a pitiful display of skill.

town better heed my advice. I've done all I can do

Espeonage, I don't feel so good...

[Tchill13]

Finally.

Nero, never replace into or sign up for a game I'm in OK? Thx. Not gonna argue or discuss because I don't see a way it could have a positive outcome due to the fact you've fake guitlied before, caught scum with it, and will use that to justify the fake guilty at least 3 more times. Nothing personal.

[Tchill13]

I don't even know what that is. There was no gambit. I correctly read oath. I correctly stated countless times day 1 that scum weren't active. I'm taking a break from the site anyways.

I asked nicely. So please for the sake of both of us do not play with me again. I ask this under the premise that a VT that fake claims because they are incapable of persuasion can't be trusted in any future games I play with them. It's the mafia equivalent of a toddler throwing a tantrum. Persuasion is a huge part of the game and you outright ignore that when you fake a guilty. Like other solo gambit players you got it right once and justify bad gambits because of it.

Please be mature and listen to my wishes. I'd really appreciate it. Nothing personal at all. I just think your play, that play in particular, Shows your not willing to work with other people and I can't trust you ever. Ik you're not dumb. I've seen you play well. It's just selfish play imo. I don't want to play with people who do that. Nothing personal. I wish you the best.

[Tchill13]

if you can't fake guilty super reliably then you shouldn't do it.

I played my 1st mafia game ever with you and had no idea you were such a big deal at the time lol. Pretty cool.

[Tchill13]

I'm sure it's useful in top tier mafia, which I'm nowhere near, I just think scum hunting and persuasion are equally important skills. You flat out throw one of those away because of your incapability to persuade when you fake a guilty. Shouldn't be allowed imo. It's practically game throwing.

Even more so when done purely out of spite.

[Tchill13]

Tchill as reasonable as you're trying to come off here you really shouldn't self-hammer as VT

I thought I had scum dead to rights and in most cases, if town plays properly, I would have. My self hammer would have led to a scum lynch, I had no reason to believe otherwise, and I will always trade a town for a scum if it 100 percent allows me to lynch scum. I thought it did there. He fake guiltied. So idk what to tell you. Obviously I never even consider fake guilties.

[Tchill13]

idk players who think they are good enough to fake guilties are the players who shouldn't be faking guilties amirite?

That's true but Nero specifically said he fake guiltied me out of spite. That's why I'm black listing him. If I can't trust your word as a VT when can I ever trust you? Never. If I can never trust you I can never cooperate with you and town cooperation is required to win games. I'd hesitate to play with anyone that I knew fake guiltied someone purely out of spite.

[Tchill13]

I tunneled oath to show the hypocrisy in the fact ppl will not deal with tunnelers if it's just what the tunneler does but they will deal with it if it's odd for that particular player. Just like lurkers.

Yes I annoyed the hell out of you so you'd provide reason. You didn't have reason. You were incapable of persuasion and you were fully aware of it which is why you fake guiltied.

A few post back you admitted to faking a guilty because I was annoying. What if someone fake guiltied you every time they were incapable of persuading ppl to lynch you or if they found you annoying? Wouldn't be enjoyable would it?

[Tchill13]

I agree. I focused on myself and had intentions purely motivated by me. It was wrong. Oath apologized. I needed to be lynched in the context of the situation and I clearly stated oath shouldn't be lynched unless it's to make sure she isn't in lylo.

If you only fake guiltied me because you were lazy, you were annoyed, etc...

Then I stand by my black list. This isn't going anywhere because you will justify your bad action because you've done it before or you'll say I was playing bad as well. I agree I was selfish in my intent to show the biggest issue with this site is bad play is allowed, in fact it practically town clears said player. This happened anyway because you weren't lynched for faking a guilty. I won't be discussing this further. Nothing personal.

[Tchill13]

I'm just gonna say it.

I think Maria doesn't like you RC. Lol.

[Tchill13]

Fun stuff lol. Yeah the dead thread shouldn't be seen haha I don't consent either.

[Tchill13]

And tbh I would have enjoyed meme man more if not for the context of the situation. He had good reads.

I was more upset with TW replacing out, then back in (also he replaced in on his alt?). I was also hoping I'd be able to tell oath I have no I'll will towards her for her actions this game. Maybe she'll see that.

[Tchill13]

Maria played well as always. I never really have any complaints when it comes to her. She's consistent.

[Tchill13]

For the record tho.
General feeling for me is that Gustavo, Nero, Tchill, Garmr, and so on, is mostly pots calling kettles black, in that all of you have displayed some issues. Not the same issues, but similar ones. In short, I'd recommend against thinking any of you hold a moral high ground.

That's fine. I'd expect nothing less from someone that made it clear bad play from town is balanced out by adding town PR's. Then expecting town PRs to under perform while expecting scum to meet or exceed expectations so you can justify the setup.

This is the first and only game I've ever taken action that was personally motivated. When my play is effected by stuff that's not in the game I take a step back, like I'm doing now, but I don't expect you or any high power at this site to agree with me. This site doesn't hold anyone accountable for their actions, whether it be mods or players. I place that responsibility solely on the people who run this site,people like you mastina. Town will never get better if things do not change. Yall can sit around the camp fire and act like some people are just so good at scum they change the win percentage site wide, I read that as a description of a player here alisae I think, or you can actually hold players accountable for bad play: lurking,tunneling, fake guilties. Instead yall want to town clear them because of their meta. Then you have the fact that some people don't care to play if they draw VT. They'll just use that game to play so bad that they'll be able to play scum easier here.

It's sad that no action is being done. That no accountability is being given to fix play here. This is a good site with good people and it works wonderfully. This is what lead to my "bad play" day 2. So thx for giving me a reason to put that done mastina.

I don't think I'm better than anyone. I don't think ik everything. I don't think the mods purposely run this site in a difficult manner. I just don't agree with how it's ran. Respectfully of course.

[Tchill13]

I'm not talking about this setup specifically I'm talking about the setup on an average basis.

[Tchill13]

but fake tunneling a slot that you were town reading isn't going to change anything. I don't think tunneling is bad except when its wrong but a player doesn't know when he or she is wrong unless there's a clear or a flip. If anything, I think its up to the person being tunneled OR a indepdent 3rd party to just sit down and calmly explain why they are wrong and try to change their mind and see the error in their ways. This is rarely done, however.

Lurkers should be shot or policied ASAP. We agree there.

Most players like to play scum the most anyways and I think the culture here is pro-scum in general.

I think when people asked for my read of oath I said she was town. I just "tunneled" to act like it lol. I never 100 percent pushed her lynch I just acted like I did.

[Tchill13]

I'm honestly just waiting to have a discussion with mastina.

Garmr I wouldn't take anything gus has to say to heart. He can come off as arrogant but I honestly think it comes from a good place. Just roll with the punches. Your play wouldn't have mattered in the end in this dumpster fire.

[Tchill13]

I think gus would just ramble and depending on the thickness of garmrs skin he more or may not take it well.

[Tchill13]

I'm just looking for civil discussion about site play, which I've had with mastina more than once. I feel that she finds me respectful. I'd hope so. Where would I need to post something like this where I can engage with actual conversation with people that actually run this place?

[Tchill13]

Oh no rush at all mastina. Whenever you can is fine.

[Tchill13]

A question I have for T-bone is what action will be taken against espionage and other mods that just flake mid game? Is there a standard for how they should operate and is it met with accountability if failed?

[Tchill13]

Espeonage explained multiple times that he was basically in the middle of a family emergency, his mistake was not contacting a list mod for a replacement sooner, the flake itself is forgivable.

Oh yeah that's understandable then. I'm not sure why most games don't require a back up of some sort though. I've been in multiple games where mods have just disappeared before.

[Tchill13]

No i welcome it, especially from someone I've seen and I feel they're competent.

Town has two jobs. Not being lynched is the most important. People tend to disagree. If no town is never lynched town will win. This is my issue with lurkers. It's scummy. It's easily avoidable. Good townies can easily play town. Not to mention you can't vote scum if you're dead. If enough townies can't vote scum scum win.

The 2nd job is lynching scum, which is much more complex. Lynching scum DOES require less activity than being able to convey that you're town. You can easily piggy back off others logic. Scum can also lynch scum, so this doesn't make you town so to speak.

I'm just saying if you eliminate bad town practices then town will win more. It's common sense. Bad practices can't be eliminated here specifically for 2 reasons.

Meta is used to town clear people with bad practices. Lurking, tunneling, bad logic...

Mods justify over powered town by assuming town PRs will play as poor or worse than expected while assuming scum will play well. This is a never ending cycle of town playing worse and worse.

I'm sure someone thought that'd fix the inactivity issue for players that don't play when they draw VT. Well it takes activity to convey your town. Now you even have PRs that lurk so they're scummy enough not to beNK'D .

This site rewards inactivity. It rewards bad play in the for of town clears from meta. That's why town sucks here. Nobody is doing anything to fix it.

[Tchill13]

No but site wide mandatory policy lynching for a few months would. Knowing who's ever faked a guilty as a VT would help. Mods that HAD to have backup mods due to flaking for any given reason more than twice would also help.

I'm not one to criticise without offering answers but they'd be a bit extreme. Which town is extremely bad now so. Makes sense to me.

[Tchill13]

There's too many players here who believe they're good to listen to anyone else. Your solo gambiters. There's too many players here who don't care to play unless they're scum, then unless they're a PR. People just flat out don't care here.

[Tchill13]

I was talking about afterwards. What happens if a mod that flaked wants to mod again? Anything?

[Tchill13]

One of the big issues is its sometimes hard to even tell who is lurking and just too busy to play.

agreedbut short of emergency... play the games you sign up for. Mod the games you sign up to mod. Replacements and backups are there for a reason. Should be a zero tolerance policy on this stuff. Scum can afford to lie and say they're busy. Doesn't justify lurking. Nothing does.

[Tchill13]

great points from ank...

one town is always worth one scum. Which is why i self hammered this game. I feel that you're discussing a minor percentage of what actually happens (I agree with you on the situatiuons that are not as common fyi) BUT the issue is towns ability to not be lynched. I have pride about one thing in my game and one thing only. My ability to not be mislynched. It rarely happens short of a rush lynch while im not active or a fake guilty. This takes effort though. I'm assuming im considered hyper active on this site. I think that goes hand in hand with my ability to not be mislynched. It takes effort to be transparently town. Most players don't care enough to do this ON A REGULAR BASIS, these players become tools for scum to manipulate the overall game with. If more people made it harder for themselves to be mislynched then scum would actually have to work to achieve a mislynch.

"towns total perception" is a great way of putting it. This site is full of egotistical, selfish do-it-my-way players. I rarely see teamwork, ever. This already puts scum at an advantage because they are obviously working together. Of course you can't play well every game (something I always consider which i myself can't do) but I've seen repetitive bad play from certain ppl. Bad habits. If you eliminate bad practices you will do better on a game to game basis. In fact I'd argue the elimination of bad practices would breed teamwork since most, if not all of them, are based on an individuals activity or ego.

theres 50 pages every day 1 and nobody seems to understand that too much content is good for scum. repetetive arguments, good for scum.TUNNELING, even if tunneling scum sometimes comes off as stubborness and loses credibility because of that, good for scum. Any unneccesary info that will be unapealling to a majority, goood for scum. I'm guilty of this. I blow up threads. It's a byproduct of wanting to play the game as much as I do. It's something I'm working on because I realize scum can abuse that in some situations. It's hard for me to realize i'm wrong, but when i do i whole heartedly follow towns lead, or at least try to.

LYNCH liars, LYNCH lurkers, LYNCH solo gambit players.

If this doesn't work there should be a site wide black list of certain players. Just refuse to play with them if the mods can't ban them for play.

they'll get the picture. Nobody cares enough to try and fix it though. I GAURANTEE this would fix win rates. I'm not asking for one person to determine bad from good but im asking the community to do so. The community that won't work together to win a simple game in most case lol.

[Tchill13]

why is lynch all liars stupid? Can we agree that a majority of the time town lying hurts town more than helps?

If you allow any reason for someone to lurk, you're gonna get lurkers. "depends on why said player is lurking" is just the excuse scum will give you any time. ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY.

most town that lie are solo gambit.

[Tchill13]

Can you give me some explains of lying that town has done so I can get a better idea by what you mean by lynch all liars? Because I think there's a dif between gambit lies and good lies

fake guilties, fake PR claims, Fake VT claims, any lie really. Any info that isn't true.

i'm actually hypocritical here because i always claim VT in mass claim but heavily, heavily crumb my role before mass claim. So in that instance i'd be arguing for my lynch due to the zero tolerance. I'd rather have it that way though than to continue to allow others to lie repeatedly.

lying about reads isn't concrete info. I'm talking about info YOU KNOW specifically.

its a good question though.

[Tchill13]

This whole thing is basically: "I don't like 1447"

no, its literally any lie. I've played more games than this one krazy. While that tilted me to oblivion, it was the final straw of terrible play I've seen from so many players here.

[Tchill13]

Tchill where's the line for fake claims between good and bad? Where does a 2-shot doc claiming 1-shot doc fit in?

could lead to misleading setup spec. I'm not gonna argue it's full proof obviously its not. I'm saying the majority of the time lies hurt more than help the way lies are used on this site and as such i'd rather do away with them than continue to use them.

To argue certain intricacies can't help my case. such as 1 shot vs 2 shot.

[Tchill13]

I remember a lie we did in real folks mafia that outright won town the game so hey

how many lies do you think outright lost town the game?

[Tchill13]

I remember a lie we did in real folks mafia that outright won town the game so hey

how many lies do you think outright lost town the game?

You're gonna think of negatives before positive always

Only when a negative tends to happen more than a positive. I think good town lies are great. I think good town anything is great. It's just that more times than not players think they're making good town lies when in fact they're making good individualized lies for themselves that actually put the team in a worse position to win.

Maria I understand your point. I don't necessarily agree that the bad should out weigh the good. In the context of everyone though, I'd rather get rid os something used wrong on a regular basis.

[Tchill13]

Yeah mumble is about that active as either alignment. Hard to read.