Murder Riddle II (Solved!)

For completed/abandoned Mish Mash Games.
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Post Post #22 (isolation #0) » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:59 pm

Post by Segaco »

I've been thinking and I'm pretty sure the two people who held the gun at the end, Tony and Tom, are clear, at least.
The gun had 6 bullets, more than enough to kill the other two in the room, and neither of them shot the others. And if the two are lying about the gun being loaded then it doesn't make sense as they could just kill Adler right there.
Though, there may be another possibility I'm missing there, but I'll be assuming those two are clear for the time being.

I'll re read in a bit since I'm
finally
free from exams. Let's see what we can come up with
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Post Post #23 (isolation #1) » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:13 pm

Post by Segaco »

I'm having a problem regarding narration and character claims. If we sum up everything said in narration and by characters, then we end up with a total of 7 gunshots happening: The
2
gunshots that killed Nettle and Brian, the
1
gunshot that happened during the police siren that killed Ruby, the
3
gunshots Tom heard, two of which killed Steve and Menna while the other one is unknown, and finally the final
1
shot that killed Alpha.
Both Tony and Tom checked Alpha's gun at the end, and it was fully loaded. Alpha said his and Ren's guns were identical, which means each have space for 6 bullets, so where did that seventh shot come from?
Since two out of the three characters alive at the end confirmed this, I'm certain at least one of them is telling the truth, else they would have killed Alder right there because of the more culprits than innocents red.
So... how did seven gunshots happen if each gun only has six bullets and one was fully loaded?


...At this point, I'm certain Alder is the culprit. There's one viable theory I can think of to get around the gunshot problem, and that is that one of the old bodies was re-used in place of Ruby, while Ruby was killed and put elsewhere. Meaning Alder lied about hearing a gunshot during the siren.
Alternatively, Alpha lied about his and Ren's gun being identical when the truth is either his or Ren's gun has more bullets. Or if we assume Alpha lied again, there's more than two guns.

That said, let me help my dear number friend with his theory.

Alder and Alpha are the culprits.

Before anything, the two got into Miles' room and stole the documents. I don't know why they would want them, possibly hired by someone?

For the first murder, they claim to have been together. However, that is not the case, as Alder just lied to give Alpha an alibi. Alpha went over to Ferris' office while Catherine was in the bathroom and stabbed him to death. After this, he locked the door with his master card key and left. When he reached Alder, Alpha gave him his master card key for the next locked room.

For the second murders, when Alder stormed off he found Micah and Nik. He led them to the closet and stabbed them both, locking the door with the Alpha's master card key afterwards when he was out.

For the third murders, Alder left the conference room with Ruby at one point. Ruby's purple of "Alder called me over" implies Ruby was not with him when he called her, so Alder just got into the security room and stabbed Ren and Miles to death. After this, he took Ren's gun, deleted the security footage and called Ruby over to the crime scene.

As this happened, for the fourth murders, Alpha got out of the conference room and quite simply shot both Brian and Nettle with his own gun.
Alpha lied about no one having Ren's gun, because his partner in crime had it.

At this point, secretly while everyone else was distracted/doing something else, Alder gave the master key card back to Alpha, and Alpha swapped his gun with Alder's (because Alpha's gun has space for more bullets, while Ren's only has 6).

For the fifth murder, Alder had possibly set the sirens to play at one point, and he used this chance to say he had heard a gunshot to go over to check on Ruby. He entered the room she was in and shot her with the gun he had been given, then left.
The door was not locked, so Alpha just opened it.

For the sixth murders, Alder separated from the group, lying when he said he was going to the conference room. When he saw his soon to be victims, he shot them both. Catherine, who was in her office, rushed out, but she was shot too. Alder quickly pushed her body into her office and went to hid in the room closest to him: Ferris'.
He lied when he said Catherine was stabbed to death. Honestly, he had me fooled there.

Finally, at the end while Tom and Tony were distracted, Alder gave Alpha's gun back to him. And so, Alpha went over to Tony's room. There, he locked the room from the inside, shot his own gun at the ceiling and hid it in the room.
After this, he laid down on the floor and faked death. When Alder arrived, he lied about him having been shot and about him being dead. The gun Tom and Tony checked was Ren's, which had not been used at any point, so no contradictions were made.
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Post Post #27 (isolation #2) » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:30 pm

Post by Segaco »

What about my theory ;-,
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Post Post #29 (isolation #3) » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:48 am

Post by Segaco »

Oops. Her talking after the gunshots completely slipped my mind.
Changes in bold:

Alder and Alpha are the culprits.

Before anything, the two got into Miles' room and stole the documents. I don't know why they would want them, possibly hired by someone?

For the first murder, they claim to have been together. However, that is not the case, as Alder just lied to give Alpha an alibi. Alpha went over to Ferris' office while Catherine was in the bathroom and stabbed him to death. After this, he locked the door with his master card key and left. When he reached Alder, Alpha gave him his master card key for the next locked room.

For the second murders, when Alder stormed off he found Micah and Nik. He led them to the closet and stabbed them both, locking the door with the Alpha's master card key afterwards when he was out.

For the third murders, Alder left the conference room with Ruby at one point. Ruby's purple of "Alder called me over" implies Ruby was not with him when he called her, so Alder just got into the security room and stabbed Ren and Miles to death. After this, he took Ren's gun, deleted the security footage and called Ruby over to the crime scene.

As this happened, for the fourth murders, Alpha got out of the conference room and quite simply shot both Brian and Nettle with his own gun.
Alpha lied about no one having Ren's gun, because his partner in crime had it.

At this point, secretly while everyone else was distracted/doing something else, Alder gave the master key card back to Alpha, and Alpha swapped his gun with Alder's (because Alpha's gun has space for more bullets, while Ren's only has 6).

For the fifth murder, Alder had possibly set the sirens to play at one point, and he used this chance to say he had heard a gunshot to go over to check on Ruby. He entered the room she was in and shot her with the gun he had been given, then left.
The door was not locked, so Alpha just opened it.

For the sixth murders, Alder separated from the group, lying when he said he was going to the conference room.
When he saw his soon to be victims (Menna & Steve), he shot them both. As for the three shots, there are two possibilities:
A) He shot one of them once and the other twice.
B) He missed one of the shots.

After this, he quickly went on and hid in the room closest to him: Catherine's.
While everyone searched for him, Catherine entered her office and found him. Alder did not spare her and quickly stabbed her to death.
Alpha eventually found him in the room with the corpse and lied about finding Alder in Ferris' office.


Finally, at the end while Tom and Tony were distracted, Alder gave Alpha's gun back to him. And so, Alpha went over to Tony's room. There, he locked the room from the inside, shot his own gun at the ceiling and hid it in the room.
After this, he laid down on the floor and faked death. When Alder arrived, he lied about him having been shot and about him being dead. The gun Tom and Tony checked was Ren's, which had not been used at any point, so no contradictions were made.
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Post Post #31 (isolation #4) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:35 am

Post by Segaco »

How about this:

Alder and Alpha are the culprits.

Before anything, the two got into Miles' room and stole the documents. I don't know why they would want them, possibly hired by someone?

For the first murder, they claim to have been together. However, that is not the case, as Alder just lied to give Alpha an alibi. What actually happened is that Alpha went over to Ferris' office while Catherine was in the bathroom and stabbed Ferris to death. After this, he locked the door with his master keycard and left. When he reached Alder, Alpha gave him his master keycard for the next murder.

For the second murders, after Alder stormed off, he found Micah and Nik in the hallway. He led them to the closet and stabbed them both, locking the door with Alpha's master keycard afterwards when he was out.

For the third murders, Alder left the conference room with Ruby at one point. Ruby's purple of "Alder called me over" implies Ruby was not with him when he called her, so Alder just got into the security room and stabbed Ren and Miles to death. After this, he took Ren's gun, deleted the security footage and called Ruby over to the crime scene.

As this happened, for the fourth murders, Alpha got out of the conference room and quite simply shot both Brian and Nettle with his own gun. That done, he quickly threw his gun into Ruby's office.

After searching the others, Alpha lied about no one having Ren's gun, because his partner in crime had it.

At this point, secretly while everyone else was distracted/doing something else, Alder gave the master keycard back to Alpha, and Alpha whispered to Alder where he could find his gun (because Alpha's gun has space for more bullets, while Ren's only has 6).


For the fifth murder, Alder had possibly set the sirens to play at one point, and he used this chance to say he had heard a gunshot to go over and check on Ruby. He entered the room she was in (her office), took the gun Alpha had left there, shot her, and then left. The gunshot was muffled by the sirens.
Ruby's office was not locked as Alder had said, so Alpha just opened it.

For the sixth murders, Alder separated from the group, lying when he said he was going to the conference room. When he saw his soon to be victims (Menna & Steve), he shot them both. As for the three shots, there are two possibilities:
A) He shot one of them once and the other twice.
B) He missed one of the shots.

After this, he quickly went on and hid in the room closest to him: Catherine's.
While everyone searched for him, Catherine entered her office and found him. Alder did not spare her and quickly stabbed her to death.
Alpha eventually found him in the room with the corpse, and Alder gave him the two guns: Ren's fully loaded gun and Alpha's own gun.
Alpha lied about finding Alder in Ferris' office.


Finally, at the end, Alpha went over to Tony's office. There, he locked the room from the inside, shot his own gun to the ceiling and hid it in the room.
After this, he laid down on the floor and feigned death. When Alder arrived, he lied about Alpha having been shot and about him being dead. The gun Tom and Tony checked was Ren's, which had not been used at any point, so no contradictions were made.
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Post Post #33 (isolation #5) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:44 pm

Post by Segaco »

Um, I'm sorry but I can't see how that disproves the theory
More like, I'm not sure the part the red refutes. Mind pointing that out?
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Post Post #37 (isolation #6) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:54 pm

Post by Segaco »

I'll change the last bit of my theory, the part where Alpha fakes his death.

Alder only gives Alpha Ren's gun when they met in Catherine's office. Alder keeps Alpha's gun.

Anyway, back to the end: Tom calling for the elevator caused it to snap and fall. The loud sound they heard was the elevator crashing to the ground.

Alternatively, do remember that the culprits could play sounds like the sirens, so it would be no problem for Alpha to play a gunshot sound and then feign death. Alder just lied about Alpha being shot and being dead when his body was found.
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Post Post #40 (isolation #7) » Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:34 am

Post by Segaco »

Hmm... let's see. These are the following possibilities and why they're not possible:

Tom + Miles
-> Only an executive can disable the elevator. Neither of these two are executives, so they cannot do it.
Tom + Micah
-> according to Tony, only an executive would be able to disable the elevator, so although it's possible for them to have done the murders, it's impossible for them to disable the thing. If they had forced an executive to do it, they'd be an accomplice, and they're not allowed.
Tony + Brian
-> Without a master keycard, the closet locked room is impossible. Neither of these two have them, so this one is not possible.
Tony + Nettle
-> Without a master keycard, the closet locked room is impossible.
Tony + Steve
-> Without a master keycard, the closet locked room is impossible.
Alder + Catherine
-> Without a master keycard, the second murder is impossible.
Alder + Alpha -> Possible

So, Alder and Alpha are indeed the culprits. But we have the problem with the gunshots...
I'd like to consult something with the host: I was thinking that when Tom heard three loud sounds, Alder had actually shot two times with Alpha's gun, went to Ferris' office and knocked over some desk. ...But Tom especifically said in purple he heard three shots.
Which leaves me in the same place I started because:

We know two shots killed both Nettle and Brian because Tony confirmed it in purple.
We also know there was a gunshot at one point during the siren because Tony confirmed it in purple when he said Ruby died to a gunshot.
After that we find out Tom heard three
shots
, so they are confirmed to have happened too because he said it in purple.
And finally, we have the final loud sound which was confirmed to be a gunshot in red.

Which means all seven gunshots were confirmed one way or another. Since you cannot add ammo to a gun, the gun at the end was fully loaded, and the only guns that existed on the floor were Alpha's and Ren's, I'm either stupid and one of the possibilites above is still possible or a mistake was made somewhere.
Could you check your notes and confirm to me that everything's oki and I'm just stuck?
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Post Post #42 (isolation #8) » Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:58 am

Post by Segaco »

Ah, wait. I guess it's possible to kick the keycard through a gap under the door for the closet locked room.

...I'll go think about this a bit more
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Post Post #45 (isolation #9) » Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:20 am

Post by Segaco »

I have an alternative for Catherine's death, and that is that
Miles stabbed her outside her office. Catherine, before dying, went into her room and locked the door from the inside, thus explaining why Alder only saw Catherine go into the office and why the door was locked.
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Post Post #47 (isolation #10) » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:48 am

Post by Segaco »

Something that bothers me is the fact that Menna's body fell right in front of Ferris' door, where Alder was, yet Alder said he could see Catheine's shoes walk into her office. Pretty suspicious if you ask me, but let's go by number-kun's route.

So the president and vice president count as an executive too? Never thought of that
With that in mind, let's try again:

Tom and Miles are the culprits.

Before anything, the two got into Miles' room and took the documents. No idea why killing everyone else was necessary if Miles himself owned said documents. After this, Tom gave Miles his master keycard.

For the first murder, Miles entered Ferris' office while Catherine was in the bathroom and stabbed him to death. When he was done, he left and locked the door with Tom's keycard.

For the second murders, while Nik and Micah were alone, he got them into the closet and killed them both. Tom took Micah's master keycard, and when the body was found he lied when he said the keycard was there and was going to destroy it. He kept the keycard for himself.

For the third and fourth series of murders, Miles used the excuse of going with Ren to the security room to check the tapes to get her all alone. When they got there, he killed her and stole her gun.
After this, he left the room, went south, then west, and in the south-west corner he shot Brian and Nettle from the distance. Alpha was spared because he was not in Miles' sight. Knowing people would arrive soon, he went back to the security room the same way he came, deleted the tapes, hid Micah's card key and Ren's gun somewhere in the room and faked his death.
Tom lied when he said Miles was dead.

For the fifth murders, Alpha and Tony entered the security room and confirmed neither Miles nor Ren had the documents. When the loud sirens happened they left the room, giving Miles enough time to leave, go to Ruby's office and shoot her. Once the deed was done, he left, locked the door with Tom's master keycard and went to disable the elevator as everyone else gathered in Ruby's office. After this, he hid somewhere.

For the sixth murders, Miles just left his hiding spot, shot Steve and Menna when he saw them and walked away... until he found Catherine in the hallway. He stabbed her several times, and since she was close to her office she went in there and locked the door from the inside before dying.
Tom lied when he said he heard three shots. Only two happened.

As fast as he could, Miles went over to Tony's office and hid there. When Alpha entered, possibly suspecting Tony had hidden the documents in there, he locked the door from the inside. Seeing he had no choice, Miles shot Alpha from his hiding spot, using his last bullet.

Tony apparently knows what's going on at the end and locks the door from the inside so the culprit/s cannot escape.
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Post Post #49 (isolation #11) » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:12 am

Post by Segaco »

I like those mysteries that show all clues needed to solve it from the start. I tried doing that with the other game but failed miserably by putting up the outdated version which left some things open, which is why I accepted the first theory that got around all the narration and purples. But that's just my preference, I can go with anything
You can do whatever you want with your mystery, in the other site I'm in not showing all info from the get-go is a common thing so the mysteries are not solved right away
So you're fine :thumbsup:

Miles had prepared a fake corpse before-hand. He put it where he was supposed to be, dressed it as himself and everything else went on as I described in the other theory.
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Post Post #55 (isolation #12) » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:05 pm

Post by Segaco »

Tony and Brian are the culprits.

Before anything, the two got into Miles' room and stole the documents and hid them in Tony's office.

Now, for the murders... On the first death, Tony just killed Ferris while he was in his office before leaving. During the 5 minutes Catherine was gone, Tony went back to the room, locked the door from the inside and hid in the room.
When the body was found, he left his hiding spot and made it look like he had just arrived.

For the second murders, Brian lied when he said he went to the bathroom. In reality, he went over to the hallway near the janitor closets, got both Nik and Micah inside and killed them. After stealing Micah's key, exiting the closet and closing the door, he locked the door with the master key and kicked the key back into the room through the gap under the door.

For the third murders, while Brian was out of the conference rooms, he possibly knocked out Nettle and went to the security room. There, he killed both Miles and Ren, deleted the security footage, stole Ren's gun and ran back to where Nettle was. After this, he went to Nik's office, knocked over some furniture, left, and then shot Nettle from the distance before dropping to the floor to fake his death.
Tony lied when he said Brian was dead, and also lied that he had died because of a gunshot wound. The two loud sounds that were heard were the furniture being knocked over and the gunshot.
Tony also disabled the elevators while he was "searching" for the two bodies. Either Tony lied when he said only an executive could disable to elevators, or being the vice-president also counts as being an executive.

For the fourth murder, Brian got up and walked a bit before finding Ruby in the hallway. He forced her into the room and shot her. That done, he took her keycard, left the room, locked the door and ran away.

For the fifth murders, as Brian left his hiding spot, he found Menna and Steve in the hallway. He shot them both, missing once or shooting one of them twice. After this he, of course, left to his hiding spot... or at least he tried to. He was found out by Catherine in the hallway as everyone searched for Alder, so he just stabbed her. Catherine, about to die, ran to her office and locked the door from the inside before dying.

And then, finally, Brian went to his hiding spot: Tony's office. He hid there, and that's when Alpha entered and locked the door. Thinking Alpha knew he was hiding in there, Brian shot him from his hiding place, killing him.
At the end Tony locks the door so him and Brian can take care of the two left.
Last edited by Segaco on Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #57 (isolation #13) » Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:14 am

Post by Segaco »

In post 56, 2 718281828459 wrote:I would like to know how you went from it being either Tom+Miles or Alpha+Alder to it being Tony+Brian.
In fact, I was just about to declare Tony confirmed innocent and look at what became confirmed fact.

You mean that
Tony lied when he said
Brian
was dead
, no?

OK, so I see the "impossible" act -- stealing Micah's key and using it to unlock all the doors. Nice. I think you have a winner. Which means I have to get my puzzle up and running quickly.
Honestly I'm just trying all of the possible culprit combinations and see what sticks.
As for the lie thing, yep, I meant Brian. Fixed.
Now lettuce wait for SS to disprove/acknowledge the theory
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Post Post #59 (isolation #14) » Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:47 am

Post by Segaco »

Then Brian hid in some other random room, but let's say it was Miles' because it was left unlocked. Brian saw Alpha walk past Miles' and go to Tony's office, so Brian left and shot him through the door, and did not miss because he used the window on the bottom part of the door to see where Alpha was standing.
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Post Post #61 (isolation #15) » Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:14 pm

Post by Segaco »

Tony had given the key to his office to Brian at one point, possibly before the murders or while everyone was gathered in Ferris' office. So all Brian did was unlock Tony's office, open the door slightly, shoot Alpha and run away.
Tony lied when he said the door was locked, and the key he took out of his pocket at the end was Miles's card key, which he took for himself and lied when he said he destroyed it.
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Post Post #63 (isolation #16) » Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:58 pm

Post by Segaco »

I don't mind,
When Tony attacked Ferris in his office he did not die instantly. After Tony had left, Ferris went and locked the door from the inside before dying.
So same as Catherine's death.
Alternatively,
Tony killed Ferris, took his key card, left and locked the door from the outside. When he arrived to the scene, he put the key card somewhere in the room/on the body, and that's when Alder took it.
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Post Post #66 (isolation #17) » Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:51 pm

Post by Segaco »

No worries, but please say in red what is actually wrong with the theories when you can :'v
Oh, and another thing. I want to request a red, just so I don't waste time going with that theory:
Something_Smart wrote:
Tony couldn't have hid in Ferris's office and pretended to have just arrived there without anyone noticing.
Could you rephrase this with "no one could have hid in Ferris' office and pretended to have just arrived there without anyone noticing"? Or is that a no-no?

Either way, here's another:
Tony killed Ferris and left his office, being seen by Catherine when he left.
In the 5 minutes Catherine was in the bathroom, no one entered Ferris' office.
As everyone discussed their alibis after finding the bodies, Brian lied when he said the door was locked and Ren unlocked it. Nettle was just being guided by Brian, so he wouldn't know if the door was locked like Brian said, and Ren, the person who Brian claims unlocked the door, was not there when Brian said this, which meant he could easily get away with lying about that.
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Post Post #69 (isolation #18) » Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:27 pm

Post by Segaco »

The thing with that is Alder only saw Catherine go into her office, so anyone going in along with her is impossible
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Post Post #71 (isolation #19) » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:04 pm

Post by Segaco »

Not really sure if this would apply, but it doesn't hurt to try:
Brian hid in Catherine's office and shot both Steve and Menna while still being inside the room, but shooting by opening the door slightly and shooting from there, which is why Alder didn't notice him.
Alternatively, Alder wasn't paying attention to the door until Menna's body fell in front of Ferris' door, giving Brian enough time to slip into Catherine's office right after shooting her unnoticed, as Alder was focused on the body.
Catherine later entered her office and was killed by Brian, who locked the door from the inside and hid in the room.
Tony lied when he said there was no one hiding in the office.
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Post Post #78 (isolation #20) » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:16 pm

Post by Segaco »

That was nice, and you did great!
The last person I thought would be the killer was Tony, and if that last theory hadn't worked I'd have gone back to Tom+Miles and stayed there for a while since Alder+Alpha was impossible.
A good game indeed,
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Post Post #81 (isolation #21) » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:54 am

Post by Segaco »

2 718281828459 wrote:I would like someone other than myself to create the third riddle. (Perhaps we should try leveling up to 5 survivors at the pause...)
Easier said than done, I'm afraid
I have a few tricks in mind but I'd have to write, and the last thing I feel like doing right now is writing
I'll probably do it at some point, but for now eh
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