Mini Normal 2030: Day 8

[Sashaddin]

VOTE: ManateeDude

[Sashaddin]

UNVOTE: ManateeDude
VOTE: Pernicious Parrot for too much parroting.

[Sashaddin]

@Doughboy I love Cube too! God, that makes me feel old...

[Sashaddin]

Scummy twitchy or towny twitchy

It'a my first game outside of a newbie setting. How does a twitchy act?

[Sashaddin]

Green: Naomi mainly because of post 166
Doughboy mainly because of post 129

Null: Flavor

Red: Saudade because I think Doughboy is green and he looks TOO helpful to me.

I'm eagerly waiting for ManateeDude to come back (puppet?)

As for the others, all I can see is a lot of crosstalk that doesn't tell ME anything (it's only my 4th game) but you guys might see it differently. I hope night 1 will be interesting, I feel blind right now.

[Sashaddin]

@Saudade -> https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Neighbor

[Sashaddin]

FOS on white ethos.

What does FOS stand for?

[Sashaddin]

Deep Green: Naomi
Green:Doughboy, Profii

Null: Flavor, Parrot, Saudade because I reread his ISO

Red: not enough juice...

Anyways I'll take my vote off Parrot, it was a lol one.

UNVOTE:

[Sashaddin]

Good to see ya again Sasha

Nice to see you too! I found the game fun, decided to stay for more

[Sashaddin]

He is voting no one and has no scum reads. The only change between 229 and 357 was a single name added to green -- so why make it seem like he's doing a whole list? 357 pinged me hard

It's only my fourth game, my first out of a newbie setting. I'm trying hard to follow the game but I must admit I feel it's a bit over my head.

I don't have any scum reads yet because I didn't find any. I'm better as the game progresses, but Day 1 I didn't have enough juice to see things usually. If you prefer a more experienced player I can fold and find another game, no problem.

[Sashaddin]

so why make it seem like he's doing a whole list? 357 pinged me hard

Can't speak about those I don't understand yet.

[Sashaddin]

@Sashaddin: Can you explain your reasoning behind putting profii as green? His vote on me is for not creating conflict and for not going after people, yet he has also said very little.

Post 306 in particular made me get him as green. He doesn't say much at a time, might be some time restrictions or whatever but he seems to be helping out. I could be fooled, though.

[Sashaddin]

Sasha what do you think about Frank

I must have missed that gut the first time. I see him a deep green. I know he voted you, but I think he's on the mark for many posts.

[Sashaddin]

*missed that GUY

[Sashaddin]

Profi, whats with the one liners?

Well I ...

He always uses two words, every time. This game is fun.

[Sashaddin]

Green: Naomi, Doughboy, Profii,

Krazy

Null: Flavor, Parrot, Saudade
Red: ...?

Adding Krazy to green. All his ISO seems town to me.
Also having a feeling about putting Saudade to green and Doughboy to null/red but I'll have to reread some key posts tomorrow, now my head hurts and those two played ping pong for a few pages. I'll have to take a deeper look at my null reads again too.

There is a large gap between newbie level and this game!

[Sashaddin]

the gap in Sasha's posting compared to the last game we played together makes me think he's more than randomly town

Does it mean I got better?
Also, I think most players will have a little something in this game, few of us are purely Vanilla I think.

[Sashaddin]

eh... not sure how i feel about being listed green after not posting other than a promise to post for a day and not having a decent contribution for two. (I count 95 as my last major post)

I liked 169, 170 311 and mostly 166, which smelled really towny to me, hence the deep label.

[Sashaddin]

also not sure how I feel about someone having no redish reads at least. Or having parrot as null when they done nothing... I.. hmm.... I'm gonna give the benafit of the doubt and say this is a new player thing and im just being paranoid i think

I honestly don't see Red at the moment. I thought Saudade was a clever red, but he appears more and more towny as I reread his stuff.
The null read on Parrot was an early one, since we haven't seen him in a while I guess that will change when he comes back.

[Sashaddin]

What is the duck at? L-2?

[Sashaddin]

Oh, Saudade, can you give me 2 or 3 posts you see the Worst as Red? I like to know why I'm voting...

[Sashaddin]

What is the duck at? L-2?

Actually only Saudade is voting him if I saw correctly.

[Sashaddin]

VOTE: The Worst
I thought he was just uninvolved, but it could mask a little more, you are right. Trusting Saudade for now.

[Sashaddin]

which is a bit over defensive for just one vote

In our previous game, he could take a lot more heat than this. Hmmm.

[Sashaddin]

I'd like Manateee or Crimson to post, I could have a better read on Manateee this way. He still hasn't taken off his vote on himself. I really thought he was mirroring me but he didn't for Parrot when I did. Maybe it's only the first vote of the day or something.
As for Crimson, he didn't post much but his later posts make me feel about light green.
I reread the duel between Saudade and Doughboy, couldn't get anything from this except.... another headache

@Saudade T'es Français?

[Sashaddin]

Sashaddin: definitely get a lost vibe from them, but thats okay given there still learning. hope that they find there place and work things out before there lack of experience catches up to them. most likely to be a D3 push by red (if they are not red).

Grade: A+
Too many people with too many interactions, I find it hard to follow and spot the hidden links like Naomi just did in the spoiler. I'll get better as more people get killed.

[Sashaddin]

The spoiler is from Krazy, not Naomi sorry.

[Sashaddin]

Not the spoiler but the post from Naomi 554. There. I'm drunk, see you guys tomorrow.

[Sashaddin]

Vote Count - Day 1

Light Ethos (3) - profii #218, Naomi-Tan #554, The Worst RockyHorror #596, ManateeDude #676

The Worst RockyHorror (3) - Krazy #76, Saudade #426, Sashaddin #502, Light Ethos #504

ManateeDude (3) - Sashaddin #4, ManateeDude #6, Crimson97 #18, Doughboy #28, Doughboy #476, Doughboy #631, Krazy #679

We have three wagons forming, that's one too many imho. Personally, I'd jump from The Worst to ManateeDude, mostly for lack of presence.
The ducky has picked up a lot in heat so I'm willing to give him a pass for Day 1.
Light Ethos does not look very suspicious to me so the ManateeDude option seems more strategic.

[Sashaddin]

UNVOTE: TheWorst
VOTE: ManateeDude [L-2] ?
I went to bed thinking that way and woke up thinking that way too.

[Sashaddin]

You guys are effectively describing a policy lynch, and acting like that’s not what it is. That is terrible. This is a scum driven wagon, and through that, you can see that Manatee is town.

If I'm not mistaken, you are the only one thinking like this. Is this "white knighting"? I can't feel the same fervor from the other people towards Manatee in you, you're very vocal about not lynching him. I am putting you nearer my second red slot.

[Sashaddin]

Crimson, Sasha, Frank don’t have too many more posts than Manatee, and it seems like Manatee has a hard time keeping up. I don’t feel they are active lurking at all. Just lurking.

If you are only looking at the number of posts to judge..... I read often and post when i think of something, I won't type for nothing. I don't go for 8 one-liners in 5 minutes...

[Sashaddin]

You probably can’t even explain why you’re putting me to red for having a different opinion.

Didn't move you to pure red, just a Fos. Why? Because, exactly, you have a different opinion than everyone and that you are very vocal and fervent about it. It makes me look like your with him. Not scummy in itself, more like guilt by association. If the others think Manatee is red, then you might be too from what I am seeing. Not accusing you formally, just seeing you as suspicious.

[Sashaddin]

I just felt like they are newscum as well, who sort of just chainsaw’d me

I don't understand the term chainsawed

[Sashaddin]

Why would I put my neck out to save hypothetical scum partner in Manatee, who has like 12 posts, little content?

Are you saying it would be more strategic for Red to bus him in this case?

[Sashaddin]

You probably didn’t see it, but I did list you as the most likely Krazy partner earlier.

I didn't miss iot, I keep wondering what makes you think this.

[Sashaddin]

Why would I put my neck out to save hypothetical scum partner in Manatee, who has like 12 posts, little content?

Are you saying it would be more strategic for Red to bus him in this case?

If I were red with red Manatee, yeah. Maybe I could defend him, but there’s really zero point to defend him a scum hard as I have been if we were Red/Red.

Does that make sense?

You can scum lean both of us individually, I don’t find that scummy, but gotta acknowledge that that’s poor play if we were Red/Red.

1. That was my hypothesis.
2. No (which means yes)
3. You seem better than a poor player
UNVOTE: ManateeDude

Thanks for the detailed explanation on the chainsaw.

[Sashaddin]

i also just went to check - day talk is on - if i was sashaddin's buddy, i'd be saying stop defending all the scum. It seems so coincidental that you'd expect some mentoring to happen if he was really scum

Oh boy, I'm that bad

[Sashaddin]

@Sashaddin: Do you have any scum reads?

441 and 495 explains where I was up to a few days ago. Now that I'm done trying to figure what's what by myself, I try to understand other people's logic and joined two wagons.
So, in short, I don't have any serious red read. This is not a newbie game anymore.... some of you people are very good.

[Sashaddin]

Well was meant to do this ealier today, but here we go, another round of me spamming theorising ect.

You can't have it both ways, Naomi. Either I am scum or Crimson and Manatee are scum. There isn't a plausible world in which all three of us are scum.

Prove it.

Sure. Flip me green now.
VOTE: Light Ethos

k

VOTE: light ethos

What convinced you to hammer? It took two minutes...!

[Sashaddin]

@Profii: Ok I saw 1032 never mind

[Sashaddin]

@LightE Thanks. There was one post I had skipped, changed the whole thing. I like your analysis.

[Sashaddin]

engage with me, give me a read list so i can pin your alignment down. Also include reasons.

Green: Naomi, for taking leadership and directing since early game. Lots of posts with deep content.
Profii: Felt that even he had a 2-word curse he was trying to help. Haven't lost the feeling since.
Doughboy: I honestly don't remember why. I should cross him off and start fresh with the replacement.

Null: Saudade, because earlier he was opposed to Doughboy whom I thought was green but posted good enough to move him back up.

Red: Manatee, acting weird and quitting is suspicious in itself.
Light Ethos: Because Naomi looked more credible to me and was in opposition with her. He had me confused a bit too.

No idea on the other slots

[Sashaddin]

@Golfball, what is the difference for you between not having a read and "null"?

Null: I can read conflicted signals of both alignment
No read: No idea, no clue at all

[Sashaddin]

Right time to rip this post apart

On Doughboy: 129 through 155 seem green posts to me, he was trying to forward things and kept his cool doing it. From 200 to 225, more green but less cool. From 248, all hell broke loose, I can't get a clue from all this. So nothing specific, but all his early posts make me think he is/was green.

On Saudade:
Green posts: 47, 486
Red: 85-88-93, refusal to explain why but having a harsh language to apply pressure. 232-233 repulsing pressure with language again.
Unsure: 245, 292-496-619-623 telling other people who to vote for. Could go either way for me, maybe an experienced player can get more of that.
His style looks like he likes to tunnel people and attack a lot, 1112-1115 being a good proof. But he looks like green to most other people

On LE: changing my read. Many many posts seems green: 557, 575 in particular to me. I think I was under the impression he was playing a great red game by voting/unvoting often to influence others but I think it can be towny too after all.

On Flavor Leaf: what was 56? Wifom? Style: Skillful deflection of what's coming at him. Play-by-play description of the game with short posts, but very few personal opinions coming from him until recently. (Reddish?) But he says what he means now, and he's posting more. (Greenish?)

On the worst: I know him briefly from another game. His answers don't have much flavor to my eyes, nothing stands out, I can't know exactly his color. I know he's rational and a good player though, his claim might be a bluff.

[Sashaddin]

What did you find weird about Manatee? Is it anything other than the self-vote in RVS?
Parrot flaked from the thread too. Why is Parrot not in your list of suspicious players?

The self-vote, I thought he was mirroring me but did not change when I did. Also voting without any clear reason.
I did not take much time thinking about Parrot because he was absent. I'm busy I won't study an empty slot.

[Sashaddin]

Since this is the first vote on me anyone ever casted, can I have a reason or two so I can try to defend myself? I want to know why you think I'm scum.

[Sashaddin]

Since this is the first vote on me anyone ever casted, can I have a reason or two so I can try to defend myself? I want to know why you think I'm scum.

Bump

[Sashaddin]

Trying to answer when I was asked to. Trying to find links within a single ISO and giving my reads about them. Now I'M trying to find relations between two players at the time but I'm not quite good yet.

[Sashaddin]

... two players AT a time (at once)

[Sashaddin]

I'm saying honestly that I'm a bit overwhelmed so yeah, I might not play as you'd like but I'm trying my best. Were you really really good in your first games?

[Sashaddin]

Which in my opinion makes your slot likely to flip scum =]

When I flip green the others will probably try to flip you then.

[Sashaddin]

Why? does what I say not make sense to you?

It's not that you don't make sense, but we don't have the same informations to work with. You know what you are and I know what I am. So it makes me feel they will TvS us and try to flip you after.

[Sashaddin]

who is they

Rest of players.

[Sashaddin]

The smart move would be to go after the silent voters that would've voted you off rather than the vocal one(me)

I was not going at you really, just wanted to know why I was on your list with a small question. "Active lurking" was my sin it seems.

[Sashaddin]

I'll probably get night killed anyway for naming all the scum at one point or another during this day

Wouldn't The Worst be a better choice?

[Sashaddin]

Well you asked a question and I answered

Yes! But I wasn't calling this "coming at you", that's where we differ. Unless I'm wrong and asking that question is really coming at you.

[Sashaddin]

Literally everything Sasha is saying makes sense coming from a newer player’s first non newbie.

Which means I'm playing... average!

[Sashaddin]

he's overdefensive and passive, my vote stays

I will help better later in the game. Having less players around would be a reason. Longer ISO could be another. In fact I could cite a few more but you mostly know them.

[Sashaddin]

Well you just said I'm more likely to be scum than Sash when 2 posts ago you've said he's on your scum list




HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

1334 I think

[Sashaddin]

Don't you want to lynch scum today? Wouldn't that be amazing? Why does every post you make seems like you're just trying to get by through the day without getting lynched

Yes, but having a chat with you teaches me a lot right now and I don't have the attention needed to ISO people. We still have 8 days to N1, and The Parrot and Manatee slots have been absent, so since the game is pretty stalled I'm more laid back these days. In that, you were right.

[Sashaddin]

Quick question though: what does WKing mean?

White Knighting^

[Sashaddin]

duck voting for naomi just gives naomi bonus town points since the duck prolly scum

Saudade will probably destroy me with this, but........ here I go:

1. Red!Duck wouldn't vote Red!Naomi at this stage, because bussing a first vote on Day 1 is stupid. Both can't be scum in my mind.
2. Naomi has a style ( 1411 ) which looks possible with both alignments, so no real clue for me on Naomi. It might tell a veteran player something though.
3. The Worst is suspected by both Saudade and Naomi. The Worst votes Naomi. Saudade is pleased because it reinforces his views on The Worst but not enough to vote him instead of me.

So:
Saudade thinks The Worst and I are Red, and Naomi is Green
Naomi thinks The Worst is Red, and I am Green.
The Worst thinks Naomi is Red, and I am Green.

Did I get it right?

[Sashaddin]

fluff is the wrong word. he's an IIOA MACHINE who is very very focused on mafia theory and like.. definitely not on lynching scum

I read him, he seems to "know" a lot. He's also very rigid in his play, a one-track mind. I kind of have a feeling he was town here too, this type of people are generally predictable.

[Sashaddin]

Welcome Rogers. I hope you get to the end soon, I'd really like some fresh insight!

[Sashaddin]

no - ive thought sash has been chainsawing on multiple occasions with multiple players - if my reads were amazing (they're not) then id expect one of the scum dudes to go 'erm sash, stop defending us all, if you get flipped red we are all dead'

Lol looks like I didn't see this the first time.
I didn't realize what I was doing and that it was a dangerous style of play it seems. But then again, doing many chainsaw cuts is like doing none I guess.

[Sashaddin]

@The Worst: I don't see an explanation on your vote on Naomi. Did I miss something obvious?

[Sashaddin]

Why does this stand out to you?

Not stand out by itself. I was trying to find interactions with two people at a time and saw that TheWorst vote was unexplained. I find it suspect and I'd like to know what had changed. ISOing by itself gave me no clue.

[Sashaddin]

Green: Flavor Leaf, Light Ethos, Naomi-San, Profii, Crimson97, Mister Rogers

Null: Saudade, The Worst, Krazy,

Red: No one yet. Tight game.

No idea: Creature, Frank, UCVoyager

So I would lynch any of my null read at the moment, since they are my scummier reads than my town reads. I have no objection to lynch a lurker either.

[Sashaddin]

You people listed above MUST post your top two scum suspects and vote them in your next posts or you will be wagoned today by all the active cooperating players!

Didn't see this the first time.
Top 2 are Saudade and Krazy. I know that's not the best two to go together but that's all I got.

[Sashaddin]

I am willing to lynch Crimson without question if he doesn't cooperate. I wil lynch Sasha immediately if he doesn't cooperate. LE will cooperate but needs to do so like in his next post(s).

What's your case against me to be prompt?

[Sashaddin]

Saudade because of his playstyle and a bit of OMGUS. I can't trust him right now.
The Worst: I suspect him of bluffing a PR. Having played with him I think he had a better game than this one, so my gut tells me not 100% sure town.
Krazy: Good thing I ISOed a bit last night. I think that since [post]776[/post , which had a strong town vibe for me, he has a less and less town feeling to me. I'll try to find specifics.

[Sashaddin]

Saudade because of his playstyle and a bit of OMGUS. I can't trust him right now.
The Worst: I suspect him of bluffing a PR. Having played with him I think he had a better game than this one, so my gut tells me not 100% sure town.
Krazy: Good thing I ISOed a bit last night. I think that since [post]776[/post , which had a strong town vibe for me, he has a less and less town feeling to me. I'll try to find specifics.

[Sashaddin]

It also makes him a lightning rod for the nightkill, allowing someone else to survive. Maybe we should go for a riskier lynch.
Ok, I know I'm defending someone on my lynch list but it's only because of his claim!

[Sashaddin]

I Believe



1707 follows [post]1705[post/]

[Sashaddin]

Do not lynch claimed town PR's on D1 UNLESS you disbelieve the claim.

So maybe everyone should post in thread "believe" or "disbelieve"?

Wait it was 5 AM when I last posted here. Is the believe thing about the above opinion or about TW's claim?
Anyways, I'm 100% with what's above but only 25% confident in TW's claim. Sorry for the confusion.

[Sashaddin]

And i don’t believe Sasha meant like the role lightning rod, more like a lightning rod drawing the night kill because of gunsmith claim if town.

This, exactly.

[Sashaddin]

Rogers better hope my soft vig claim was fake

I missed the claim. From the wiki, I get that all Vigilantes are Green?

[Sashaddin]

So, neglecting roleblockers, jailkeepers etc, each day we will have:
One lynch
One mafia kill
One (town or mafia) kill, until this slot is killed.

With that much possible attrition I think that time is running out as the Town will shrink fast. We shouldn't waste a Day on a wrong lynch, it might mean two other deaths.

I wish we'd have some input on the slot that no one seems to want to play. Looks terrible.

[Sashaddin]

Derp, third possibility was from an old draft. Adjust accordingly.

[Sashaddin]

Vote Sash before you leave

That's it, I'm OMGUSing you.

VOTE: Saudade

[Sashaddin]

Sashaddin

One of your clearest scum reads early on was Manatee - then you move Creature to don’t know. What has Creature done to make that slot less scummy?

A kind of soft reset of the slot because of a new player replacing. Might not be the best idea but we were early in the "Week"

[Sashaddin]

One thing Sasha about your game is to get better at identifying scum. One thing that others have recomended is to find a nice complete game in one of the game lists and read that game as if you are playing it and try to identify the scum, taking notes just like you are playing and then check to see how you do. Even if you TOTALLY miss, you will start to recognize scum behaviors and will simply get better!

Thanks for the idea. I am very weak at identifying scum. I lack the basic moves and how to recognize them. (Thinking of White Knighting and Chainsawing especially this game). Probably being an observator will help understand better.

[Sashaddin]

If I held a gun to your head and said give me your read on Creature and you’re not allowed to say Null what would you say?

Red

[Sashaddin]

Saudade because of his playstyle and a bit of OMGUS. I can't trust him right now.
The Worst: I suspect him of bluffing a PR. Having played with him I think he had a better game than this one, so my gut tells me not 100% sure town.
Krazy: Good thing I ISOed a bit last night. I think that since [post]776[/post , which had a strong town vibe for me, he has a less and less town feeling to me. I'll try to find specifics.

Vote Sash before you leave

That's it, I'm OMGUSing you.

VOTE: Saudade

proof you're scum
you've stated you dont think im scum yet you're voting me.
lets just get on with this lynch shall we

Hmmm... post 1700 clearly states I have a bowl of not trusting you with a OMGUS-cherry on top. Besides, I'm the only one voting for you and I did it with a emoticon, so if you want to look at it like a scummy move have it your way.

[Sashaddin]

Would you say you have spotted similar behaviours from when you played scum!manatee in Newbie 1879 or is it something else?

Either way - what is it that makes you lean red right now?

1. Only played a single game with him, didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. Since I had played with him, I put my first RVS vote on him for fun, (so not-too-RVS but anyways) but his self-vote in reaction left me wondering. I can't say I have seen enough of him to know his playstyle well.

2. The gun to my head and Occam's Razor, I guess. If the slot was Red before and the minimal info I had isn't enough to change the read maybe I shouldn't have hit that reset button and kept it Red.

[Sashaddin]

Since I believe I'm about to being tunneled, what does everyone think of Saudade?
Am I the only one suspecting him?

[Sashaddin]

You went from sucking up to me to try and get me lynched in a heartbeat after your first attempt failed greatly

At first I thought you were Green but the more the game progresses I see you as Red. The short answers, the accusations without argumentation... I only hear: "Lynch Xyz" from you. Like your current vote on me, that you called reactionary but was an answer to Naomi's question. Since then you haven't left your attention from me. Was that post THIS bad?
I dont have much experience but you are the best vote I can find for now, for all of the above.

[Sashaddin]

Out of all the games I've played so far I care about winning this the most so dont start disappointing me I can be very
very
mean

I agree this is getting interesting but I think civility is still necessary.

[Sashaddin]

you've been instructed by your partners to try and counter push me because you've nothing else to do

I'm alone. I decided to try to see what could happen if I engaged you too (thanks for teaching me the name counter-push). Besides, it is way more fun than trying to cross-reference ISOs of people, this sheet of paper looks like a spaghetti bowl. Next game I'm doing an Excel file.

[Sashaddin]

@Sahsa: Dewd! You are getting sew much better. It sounds like you are developing a system that may be able to help you in the future. However, a word of warning. Interactions of players that HAVE NOT YET FLIPPED, are a big bowl of WIFOM and will easily lead us astray from the truth and we will not realize it. IMO, its better to read each slot individually and just make a mental note of these "connections" with other players for possible reference in the future.

Thanks! Warning acknowledged!

[Sashaddin]

The Creature vote is also a good one. I don't think I can get enough votes to lynch Saudade today anyways.
UNVOTE: Saudade
VOTE: Creature

[Sashaddin]

The Creature vote is also a good one.

I don't think I can get enough votes to lynch Saudade today anyways

.
UNVOTE: Saudade
VOTE: Creature

"let me justify my vote on creature so i don't look bad later"

In 1750, I had you red before this vote. I don't think Saudade gets the rope tonight, your wagon has much more potential.

[Sashaddin]

@Sahsa: What are your thoughts on Crimson97?

Near the middle of the game, I felt he was town. Since then, he looks like he got bored and posts not as often. I don't get the same vibe from him either.
Near the beginning, he seconded a lot of what Saudade said. If they are scum together, Sausade is sitting this one off as to not let a trace to link them. If one is scum, I'd say Saudade.

[Sashaddin]

@Sauda: Since people aren't going to be voting Sasha today (2 players have expressed adamant disapproval and only 2-3 players are actively agreeing AFAICT), I was wondering who you were thinking of voring today?

I would REALLY like to know the answer to this question, too. Why are you evading it?

[Sashaddin]

@Sauda: Since people aren't going to be voting Sasha today (2 players have expressed adamant disapproval and only 2-3 players are actively agreeing AFAICT), I was wondering who you were thinking of voring today?

I would REALLY like to know the answer to this question, too. Why are you evading it?

Another scumslip from Sash, throws shade, doesnt game solve

Another evasion, doesn't answer who he would vote instead. Yawn.....

[Sashaddin]

Had you followed the game Sash youd know

Can't ever give a straight answer. opposition syndrome much?

[Sashaddin]

We are on different teams Sash

I agree to agree.

[Sashaddin]

Sau I will join you on Sash tomorrow if we push through Creature today

@Rogers, as far as I can tell, Crimson lost interest in the thread when his top FoS replaced out. I personally struggled to stay in the game when dealing with all the replacements, so when you say he's active lurking, he's like a normal lurker dealing with a thread that was missing between 2-3 people at any given time, which seemed to compose at least 1-2 of the scummiest slots. So like maybe bear in mind that this thread was kinda boring for like a solid weak when you say he's just active lurking. tbh I don't think it's that strong of a case given the nature of the thread. So if that is the crux of your scumread on Crimson, I don't think it's nearly as good as the case on Manatee slot.

@Saudade: If town mislynches today, do you still want the worst tomorrow? I haven't been in the situation before where someone makes a claim Day 1 and doesn't get killed either that Day or at Night. You clearly don't buy his claim. If Sashaddin flips town, do you still go after the worst the next day? In general, when is it safe to killed claimed prs?

@Saudade: Who's a better lynch for you: Naomi or Créature?

[Sashaddin]

Never miind the quote, irrelevant in the above post

[Sashaddin]

Got screwed by my browser

[Sashaddin]

Crimson does not care about the game or appearing town
that's why Sash is the better vote

This appears so counter-intuitive to me.

[Sashaddin]

nobody asked you

If that was your answer to my comment, it was more a question than a comment. Why do I make a better lynch than a guy who's less active?

[Sashaddin]

Ah, the word "appearing" is the key. Ok. thanks.

[Sashaddin]

I'll gladly go over this game with you, in all honesty. But when I flip it's green

[Sashaddin]

But tell me why we should do the Golfball today and not Krazy - that Crimson vote was terrible, Krazy will fight the lynch but you can’t really argue with it and Golfball will surely slip later and be easier

Saudade.......

iso me and read my case on the golfball im not repeating myself over and over like a broken fucking record

Hmmmm... ok!

Gamma vote in Sash

Light Ethos vote Sash
this is your chance to redeem yourself

I like Creature's play ALOT. I perceive a town trajectory. If he is scum he really has upgraded his scum game from anything that is obvscum.

PEDIT: OK Light I understand your view on this. FMPOV, somebody comes into this thread saying they aren't going to read needs to be called out on it and attention called to it. He agreed to do reading to some degree based on necessity, mission accomplished.

Well doesn’t my entrance feel antithetical as scum if you think scum are inflating the thread? And who do you think is scum if that’s the case?

vote sash
trust in me

we should be lynching the person I'm voting today =]

Vote Sash before you leave

Stop beating around the bush and vote him
vote Sash
I dont give a flying fuck that he's a cute little newbie
vote
him
out
give him the fucking rope

Anyways all of this aside
vote Sash the cute newbie already players

Gamma vote Sash instead

Vote Sash Krazy

also lynch Sash

Vote sash lets see who is wrong

But there's three scum... 0.o

vote Sash

And btw, I MAY join you on the Sash wagon tomorrow, if I am alive. But my life before I ever allow him to be voted D1.

Krazy, in 2015 I notice you don't mention that you could be NK'ed, why is that?

PEDIT: @Sauda: I know how scum can twist the future from the present and so I reserve judgment until the future becomes the present and ya a scum flip from Worst will be a step in the right direction for you but as Profii has pointed out, deliberately stalling his lynch with a generally accepted fakeclaim is not a step in the right direction.

how about you join the sash wagon today and i'll forgive you for everything you've done and said today

Dude....

do you understand now?

Nope.

[Sashaddin]

Alright, I'm caught up now. Why does a town Doctor immediately hard claim without first defending himself? Why does Krazy force a hard claim when he was the L-1 vote, and nobody has announced intent?

He felt pressure and someone was asking I guess. Unless you think he lies. I don't feel it was a good idea, especially a doctor. Makes me doubt Krazy a lot now.

[Sashaddin]

I don't know if you can make a scum case for Ad Hom but he has done this all game long as well.

Let's find the 2 or 3 players he did not pick a fight with and those are your scum.

[Sashaddin]

He already made all the slips, he fucked up.

Such as?

[Sashaddin]

Well i did inform you of your terrible choices

Such as?

[Sashaddin]

Now lets see who follows you

I do.
VOTE: Saudade

[Sashaddin]

Like continue diverting your attention solely to me because i find you scum and not try to actively solve the game

You are right, I know you are scum, I'll look for the others now.

[Sashaddin]

PAGE 93
SASH WILL LOOK FOR SCUM NOW GUYS
ON PAGE
NINETY
THREE

IS THERE A BIGGER SCUM SLIP THAN THIS

Geez, if you don't know "what the others" mean....

[Sashaddin]

I'm not experienced in the slightest I just act like a confident fucking dick

That's a good attitude to have to play with other people.

[Sashaddin]

The tunneling isn't helpful unless he's right.

He keeps coming at me, says nothing else but "Lynch Sash!" for a week then acts surprised when he is my center of attraction. It's pretty hard to focus on 11 other players when you get harassed like I did.

[Sashaddin]

Not have scum suspects for a long time is very bad.

I agree it looks bad. I was expecting the Parrot slot and the Frank slot to add more content to help, but with what we have right now I don't find much. This game seems very tight.

[Sashaddin]

if he has a scum team constructed why did he feel the need to tell me hes going to start looking for other scum now? are the other reads were just fake?

Because I'm putting my vote on you again with much confidence, which will liberate my attention to be able to focus better on the 11 others who were not screaming at me. I was saying farewell, I'm going to see someone else.

Try what you want. Twist my words again. I don't care. I'm done with you, you got the vote and I move on.

[Sashaddin]

Sash are you going to vote Krazy

Just saw this. I didn't completely understand. He claimed vigilante and wishes to kill his neighbour?

[Sashaddin]

Ah, like having a fifth ace.

[Sashaddin]

Sash are you going to vote Krazy

Well... near the middle of the game I was sure he was the same algnment as Crimson, but then he voted for him, which threw me off balance. Since then, Krazy lived up to his name imho so I could see myself voting for him.

[Sashaddin]

who are my partners Sasha

I'm leaning towards Manatee and one amongst the lurkers (Frank, Parrrot, adding Crimson now too).

[Sashaddin]

This post made me smile

...No. Sounds interesting though!. Would I spoil it by googling it?

[Sashaddin]

"its the guy whose voting me and...ALL OF THE LURKERS IN THE POOL"

It's 4:18 am here, don't expect too much. Alright, heading to sleep I'll give you more on them tomorrow.

[Sashaddin]

I think red!Saudade gives up on trying to push green!Sashaddin at some point and just jumps on one of the wagons (......) I also don't think red!Saudade tries this hard to distance himself from red!Sashaddin.

This post struck me a little yesterday but a whole lot more today.
I agree that a red!Saudade would probably try other targets from time to time. His green style would be more like to bite to the bone and never let go. He ate Doughnut out of the town like this.
And if we are both red, we've put on quite a really bad show here.

UNVOTE: Saudade

[Sashaddin]

yeah TW, Krazy, Sasha can be scum.
I think Voyagers slot is a crucial key to solving this puzzle

Is the Voyager thing sill true to you?

[Sashaddin]

Creature gets my first vote. The second would have been the worst.

[Sashaddin]

In my mind, Saudade is "doing a BBT" and just driving his chosen lynch.
In that game, BBT was wrong, but was town.

What's a BBT? Blatant Bullying of a Townsman?

[Sashaddin]

What gives me a lot of problems with this game are the claims. we didn't have this in newbie games. I'll need some input from experienced players.

Are claims often bluffs, or are they generally reliable?
Are there roles that scum could use to "impersoante a town PR?
Does the number of claims we've had so far represent the distribution of a standard game?
What usually happens the following day when the claimer can't prove his role? Benefit of the doubt or the rope?

I need a few answers before I can fully continue my scheme of thought.

[Sashaddin]

Quoted for "fantastic" truth. Not sure about the word fantastic though.

[Sashaddin]

That was 25p, but that was actually a weak town for that game
Here it’s probably a strong town (if the neighbors are town)

Strength as number of town/scum or number of roles?

[Sashaddin]

Clarify the question? I think I understand but want to be sure

Strong: 20 town 5 mafia vs weak : 16 town 9 mafia? Or lots and lots of roles vs a lot of vanilla?

[Sashaddin]

sounds like rookie town

First game out of newbie. And a solid one it seems

[Sashaddin]

Time is running, is it better to lynch or no lynch?

I could see myself lynching Creature. Then there is The Worst, but he has claimed, so hmmm...

[Sashaddin]

2956[post]2958[/post] makes me thinks he knows a lot.

[Sashaddin]

Creature I still luv you and I'm glad ur not scum

I was feeling bad about shooting you until you voted me and then I was happy cause you were scum and we could just lynch you in a gentlemanly manner

will you ever forgive me for misreading your tpr game?

I don't understand what you say he is.

[Sashaddin]

I could see myself lynching Creature.

I'm mason.

Must have missed a page. Wow sorry, got home and skimmed the thread.

[Sashaddin]

Before I make this post, something interesting I noticed here is that even though Performer substituted in for Saudade, he’s reading the game completely differently than the way Saudade did. Saudade was adamant that the worst and Sashaddin were scum together. He did not buy the worst’s claim, and he did not buy Sashaddin’s Newbie excuse. Performer has become somewhat of a carbon copy of Flavor Leaf with respect to Saudade. He buys green!Sashaddin, and he buys green!theworst. Completely different players in the same slot. I haven’t seen that happen in replaces before, but I’m sure it does happen.

This makes me think this slot is green. Would scum change his lynch target because of a replacement?

[Sashaddin]

This is my green list :Naomi, FL, Performer. I'd be hesitant to lynch Crimson, having found nothing of interest in his ISO a couple of times. The others have claimed so they're untouchable it seems. Although I don't really believe The Worst's claim at all. I think he did a solid mistake and that he just abandoned after that.

[Sashaddin]

By the way, I'm sorry to have been a little absent these days. My 2-months old got a little sick this week and needed more care than usual and work was horrible. I should have called for a V/LA maybe but I think doing this when the day is ending is bad. I'll try and be more active next Day. My life should finally return to quiet mode.

[Sashaddin]

I'm like pretty sure Saudade was town, he tiltreplaced out with a tpr claim but before masons, so if he's scum looking at the number of tprs he wasn't losing his shit there... I think he was focused on Sashaddin and wanted a lynch there and it wasn't happening and he got pissed at the replacements (or maybe even the mod backpedaling the modkills--I think he was looking forward to the modkills and kinda lost it when they were poo-poo'd). he just sounds like an overeager vanilla town to me. I think Performer's town because Saudade was town

My thoughts exactly.

[Sashaddin]

Sash didn't I ask you why you have tr on me ? I don't see a reply in your I S O

Ddidn't see it sorry.
I thought your slot was scum at first because of Saudade's acting weird with Doughboy. Then he went for Krazy then for me. With the vigor he put into lynching me, I begun to doubt more and more of my read. That guy... just doesn't let go. Plus the others were seeing town so I began to doubt myself. I finally changed my read later, and didn't even jump on your wagon when it had 3 votes.
I can see you+him being town, probably vanilla because he might have stayed with a role.

[Sashaddin]

so who are your scum reads then?

I had:
Creature - fail
The Worst - claimed a role
Frank before he got replaced
Krazy - depends on my current mood

Not much, I know. This game is tight

[Sashaddin]

so who are your scum reads then?

You guys are at level 4 and 5, speaking of meta, distribution of roles etc. I'm still at level 1.

[Sashaddin]

we do lynch today. we get a flip.

I was told I was scummy for saying something like this in a previous game.

[Sashaddin]

Way too passive in a scum coasting way.

Sorry to be passive. I has to defend myself against Saudade for so long I lost a bit of the other things that were going around. My son was sick a couple of days ago too, when the first deadline was coming, so I thought the day would be over by the time I could really catch up. Now I'm caught up, but there are too many people for me right now, I have too much to try to see through. I don't know how you guys can make relevant wall posts in 5 minutes. And frankly, for me it's my first non-newbie game, I'm in was over my head with this bizarre game. I don't want to quit because it's a pain for those who fill in and those who stay so I'll be here until the end, but I'll seriously reconsider my Mafia career after this game.

[Sashaddin]

an attempt to pocket town!Sashaddin for later

What does pocket mean in this context?

[Sashaddin]

. The criticism is that you aren't stepping outside your interaction with Saudade to ask questions of other players. You're reacting to other players' reads and shopping for a wagon to stay on.

Thanks for this and the pocket explanation. Now I get it. I'll do better tomorrow.

[Sashaddin]

I don't like the idea of lynching Crimson, but I trust the ones on the wagon.
I'd like a flip to get info (and remove players)
But putting him at L-1 would look bad for me.
That's where I'm at.

[Sashaddin]

Roger that

[Sashaddin]

We want you to stay active on MS, and I promise to be nice whenever we meet again

Alright then I'll take your word for it. Is there a type of game where the roles are known in advance and if so what's the name of this type?
Everyone has been nice (to me) on this site. Even Saudade stayed civil when tunneling me.

[Sashaddin]

the majority of games with open setups (these are games where you know exactly what roles are in the game)

Never mind I got it.

[Sashaddin]

Voting the claimed Doc here is exceptionally [adjective redacted for political correctness].

Better than a no lynch, or not?

[Sashaddin]

The Wagonomy class begins at noon.

Thanks Nauci!