Open 734: Paris Mafia (13-player variation) - Game Over

[Jingle]

@Jingle: while you replaced in after I was NK'd in Pine's "Project Pinecone" I was still following that game until it ended. There's also a 3rd thread we share where I can see your posts and thus can get a feel about your thoughts from your arguments. It's not a "game thread" but I sill am not sure if being more specific is still breaking the rules, so I'll stop at this.

BTW, in case anyone cares this was about the spoilered dead thread of a game that just ended AFAICT (I was the backup mod, it was Mastina's Lynch the Wolves Large). Unless A50 has access to one of the game review threads I stick my head into and I don't know about it. No we couldn't talk about it at the time (non public information about the other game, etc) but since the game is over now you all can go and look if you care.

Pretty sure it has nothing relevant to this game unless you want to try to figure out how I balance games.

[Eragon]

i have a brain fruit idea.

We have the vigi claim, and then town has a leader to follow.

Mime could try to RB the vigi, but the watcher would be on the vigi to stop the mime from blocking, and if the mime DID block then we have confirmed mime.

Same as with Mafia, they can kill the vig at the cost of 1 of their members, or let a confirmed TPR run free

[Jingle]

No

[Eragon]

[GuiltyLion]

i have a brain fruit idea.

We have the vigi claim, and then town has a leader to follow.

Mime could try to RB the vigi, but the watcher would be on the vigi to stop the mime from blocking, and if the mime DID block then we have confirmed mime.

Same as with Mafia, they can kill the vig at the cost of 1 of their members, or let a confirmed TPR run free

actually I may need to think through this but I'm open to it

vig claim can't reasonably be CC'd and mislynched because vigs can just shoot each other, vig is conftown and hard to deal with for scum

seems fine on first pass

[Eragon]

the only problem i see is mafia/mime hitting the watcher instead, and leaving the vig without protection

[Jingle]

A50 was right. Trading one mafia for the entire town PR group is pro mafia. More so when that trade relies on us correctly guessing between a mafia and a mime. Leaving the vig hidden is protown because (protip) the vig isn't going to shoot the vig.

[Jingle]

Spec about who may or may not be vig is literally the least town thing you can post in the thread at the moment.

[GuiltyLion]

right, which is why

I'm not upset about the night kills as well, but I also was surprised to see Thor live through the night with how hard he was pushing lane over anyone else.

pings hard

[GuiltyLion]

but if Vig just openly claims I don't think that's bad for town

it's just vig being deduced with no guaranteed watcher protect that's worst case scenario

[Eragon]

pings hard as what?

[GuiltyLion]

vig fishing - it's basically saying "vig should have shot Thor, why wasn't Thor shot"

anyone who responds to that in any way gives some insight as to whether they would have shot Thor or not if they were vig

[Eragon]

ok

[Jingle]

but if Vig just openly claims I don't think that's bad for town

it's just vig being deduced with no guaranteed watcher protect that's worst case scenario

No.

[GuiltyLion]

Jingle no one elected you town leader

vig being deduced with no guaranteed watch protect is pretty clearly worst case scenario, objectively. vig claiming with watcher protect is far better. so you can disagree with the utility of a vig claim but nothing I said is wrong at all

[Jingle]

Okay, so there's three scenarios to consider if the vig claims.

1: Mafia kills vig. Mime RB's vig. Congrats, we're now at a 50% chance of instant loss because eventually we have to choose to lynch the mime or the mafia.
2: Mafia kills vig. Mime doesn't RB vig. Congrats, we're now a vanilla town against a mafia and a mime, meaning we HAVE to lynch to have a shot at winning and the mime is a legitimate threat.
3. Mafia doesn't kill vig. The watcher can't find mafia and is functionally a VT.

All of these scenarios are terrible for town. All of them.

[Eragon]

4. mime rb's vig and we find the mime.
5. mafia and mime dont do anything and vigi can shoot

the good sides

[GuiltyLion]

the mime is now literally always a legitimate threat in this game specifically because you all lynched lane - we're absolutely not just no lynching until endgame. I want the hands of town's win chances in consensus and information driven by votes/wagons, not one town killing power. and you're completely ignoring advantage of a vig claim w/ watcher protect is a conftown. and 50% of instant loss is also 50% of instant win if we lynch the other mafia first

[Eragon]

and what you forget is that mafia doesnt want mimes to win either so,

if 1 happens, and we catch both, mafia will probably out and hope their partner can win, to make sure the mime doesnt.
or, mafia should'nt kill vigi because then they will have to waste a NK to kill mime

[Eragon]

i think we leave the choice to the vigi himself, because there are ups and downs to it

[Jingle]

Jingle no one elected you town leader

vig being deduced with no guaranteed watch protect is pretty clearly worst case scenario, objectively. vig claiming with watcher protect is far better. so you can disagree with the utility of a vig claim but nothing I said is wrong at all

Yeah, but posting No. Is literally the least letters I have to type to convey the message: "This is an objectively terrible idea and the vig shouldn't claim until I have a chance to explain why."

[Jingle]

4. mime rb's vig and we find the mime.
5. mafia and mime dont do anything and vigi can shoot

the good sides

4. We're now in 2v7 mountainous which is ridiculously scumsided.
5. Which is less useful than no lynching and letting the vig shoot for mafia.

[Jingle]

and what you forget is that mafia doesnt want mimes to win either so,

if 1 happens, and we catch both, mafia will probably out and hope their partner can win, to make sure the mime doesnt.
or, mafia should'nt kill vigi because then they will have to waste a NK to kill mime

Nope. Both will say they're mafia. Because neither of them wants us to lynch the other. It's literally a 50/50 lose.

[GuiltyLion]

well Eragon's probably not Mime at least

[GuiltyLion]

actually

I went back and reread Jingle's posts (skimmed those the first time as I had no time when he replaced in and then I figured I might die last night so I never started really rereading until now)

and now I'm starting to think he's right, the set-up is dumb and no-lynch is actually the best play here