Heroes Wanted! (Game Over)

[Ankamius]

Unrelated, I mostly reset in general and started looking at macro stuff instead of micro stuff.

[Ankamius]

Spoiler:

123456789

: Frozen Angel

Cerberus v666

: Frozen Angel
Shiro: Frozen Angel
Toranaga: Frozen Angel

Drixx:

Cerberus v666

Nancy Drew 39:

Cerberus v666

Randommidget:

Cerberus v666

Gamma Emerald: Kokichi Oma
Hebichan: Kokichi Oma

Chickadee: The Worst
Sando: The Worst

Human Sequencer: zMuffinMan
Sakura Hana: zMuffinMan

Ankamius: Gamma Emerald

BBmolla: Katsuki

Brandi: Titus

Frozen Angel: Shiro

Kokichi Oma: Sakura Hana

The Worst: Nancy Drew 39

Titus: Drixx

zMuffinMan: MyloNinja13

Katsuki:
MyloNinja13:

Ankamius: Missed Deadline
Brandi/NicoRobin: Missed Deadline
Gamma Emerald: Missed Deadline
hebichan: Missed Deadline
the worst: Missed Deadline
Nosferatu: Missed Deadline

Frozen Angel: Ankamius
Titus: Ankamius

Bbmolla: Titus

Nancy Drew 39: Sakura Hana

Sakura Hana: Katsuki

Shiro:

Cerberus v666

Toranaga : Nancy Drew 39

Drixx: Assuming Cerberus v666?
Human Sequencer:
Katsuki:
Kokichi Oma:
Myloninja13:
randomidget:
Sando:
zMuffinMan: {Ankamius/Sakura Hana/Katsuki/Cerberus v666/Nancy Drew 39}

did I miss anything

[Ankamius]

VOTE: the worst

[Ankamius]

Just that one skim over the past 10 pages to scan for more leader vote claims gave me a few more reads

I think this is very workable; it might be enough to get something from rereading the thread.

[Ankamius]

it doesn't

[Ankamius]

Skim through the last ten pages and tell me what you think of his posts.

[Ankamius]

sigh

nancy

page 78 or so to present

not his entire iso

[Ankamius]

viewtopic.php?p=10325437#p10325437

[Ankamius]

I did a reset with the 123456789 flip.

Nothing Sakura has posted since then felt all that town.

why did numbers require a reset?

because I was starting to townread him at the end of the day

Unrelated, I mostly reset in general and started looking at macro stuff instead of micro stuff.

Well then can you detail what each method of reading gave you on Sakura? Since the read method could be a part of things.

before - mediumish town
after - null

[Ankamius]

viewtopic.php?p=10325437#p10325437

NO THAT'S WRONG
Ankamius was definitely going against TW far before this point

is this a serious post

you literally just asked two questions about the source of this CrAzY cOnTrAdIcTiOn

[Ankamius]

Eh I don't feel like ank actually scumreads me here. 90% chance if she's town it's a pressure vote which won't work

Eh I don't feel like ank actually scumreads me here. 90% chance if she's town it's a pressure vote which won't work

This reads gross

More like her vote would be weighted by pressure

is this it

[Ankamius]

Gamma are you reading my posts

Because 2256 and 2257 indicate that you aren't.

[Ankamius]

Then did you see the post where I said I reset my reads after day one

[Ankamius]

Yes
And I've been reading your past post as well you revisionist history scam

Why do you think it’s a scam? You don’t think it possible to change reads as the gamestate progresses?

It's possible to change reads, that's not what he's doing, he's lying about his progression.

Oh this will be good

[Ankamius]

Math

Remind me in a few hours

[Ankamius]

In the meantime, ISO my recent posts for the leader vote tallys

[Ankamius]

I didn't ask you to claim Math, I gave you the easiest way to get early reads while you ease into the game.

Anyway I'm at work, so I will talk later.

[Ankamius]

(btw the plan for today is to form a strong >=5 townblock to leash Titus' choices for teammates to)

[Ankamius]

Because Titus is strongly spewed scum and there are very strong powers available for scum today.

[Ankamius]

Like it's near certain Titus was a scum motivated leader pick and unless there was a bunch of Titus votes that haven't been claimed yet, it will be confirmed with the rest of the boys claimed since I have more votes than her right now.

[Ankamius]

Rest of the votes*

[Ankamius]

Titus was heavily scumread day one

[Ankamius]

We need at least two or otherwise scum will just power on somebody and kill the votee

[Ankamius]

We have four scum alive

We lynched one day 1

[Ankamius]

Probably yes

There's a case to be made for the most town people that aren't necessarily an optimal kill choice otherwise, but that depends on the gamestate itself enough that it's too much of a can of worms to open right now.

[Ankamius]

Math, Drixx can be ISOed

It's really short

[Ankamius]

FA is obvtown to me mostly based on how she handled the leader mechanic

I'll go into it more later on

[Ankamius]

FA is obvtown to me mostly based on how she handled the leader mechanic

I'll go into it more later on

1. She argued for keeping teammates hidden D1 and claiming them D2 before I entered the game and argued the same thing
2. Despite the amount of fire I was under towards the end of D1, she decided to give me a power anyways
3. Her teammate choices in general are very town (myself, Toranaga, Cerberus v666, Nancy Drew 39, Shiro)

Plus I think that if Titus does end up flipping town this game, that by itself is enough to conftown her via associations. It makes no sense for Titus to push really suboptimal setup stuff if her teammate, who was pushed into the leader spot, was just going to talk it down and do the correct option instead.

[Ankamius]

if Titus does end up flipping

scum

[Ankamius]

Because Titus is strongly spewed scum and there are very strong powers available for scum today.

This again. I was right d1 about scum voting Frozen. I get the votes aren't there to support me being a town pick but it's what town should have done.

*shrug*

By the way, pro tip, if you want me to actually trust your townblock, you might try to trust in the theoretical possibility I am town.

Right now, I am leaning towards Frozen and Drixx for powers but I know Drixx is controversial.

One scum vote for the leader is not indicative. I told you multiple times that scum likely voted naturally to hide since manipulating who is the leader has very little use on day one.

[Ankamius]

Math

Do you really think Titus would push for something that would get her a metric fuckton of heat in a playerlist that is competent enough to veto that just for the sake of theater between herself and the scum that was made leader for day one

[Ankamius]

that relies on scum not being picked, Shiro

[Ankamius]

if we're going to leash titus, we need to leash all five slots.

[Ankamius]

that relies on scum not being picked, Shiro

I don't see how scum being picked messes with the plan.

scum can pick a role that disables someone from using superpowers

and the powers can be used the same night you get them

[Ankamius]

if we're going to leash titus, we need to leash all five slots.

If we leash Titus we need sober Math

Because we have to leash leaders and this other bit that leaders do.

What do leaders do again?

leaders get a superpower and pick five other people to get a superpower

leaders are also immune to death the day and night they are leader unless a no lynch happens, in which case they can die at night

[Ankamius]

I don't see why this mason claim needs to be tested today in the first place

[Ankamius]

We don't need to solve the whole game today

All we need is five town and (hopefully) one scum sorted

The rest can come later

[Ankamius]

Power Negation:

Target another player. That player can neither use Superpowers nor be targeted by them until the next Night Phase.

yeah scum have nothing available they could use tonight

[Ankamius]

At the cost of giving scum the ability to kill anyone they want for free tonight

[Ankamius]

so you're going to say that letting scum get at least one free kill on whoever they want is worth testing a play that may or may not be a scum gambit

is better than

leashing a scummy leader to give superpowers to town directed by town at risk of dying otherwise

[Ankamius]

Katsuki was also very useless in a past FakeGod game that he was scum in

it's really not indicative for Katsuki

[Ankamius]

the point is to reduce scum's ability to act as much as possible

who knows if we'll ever get the medium power again
who knows how many people picked that one up

this is the type of game where scum's best chances are outlasting the most competent players gaming the setup and abusing the rest to spin the game to their own advantage

this is why I don't want scum getting that power, because that spirit medium power is extremely powerful in this game and if scum get enough neutralizers, then we literally just lose that advantage for nothing

play the long game, not the short game

there's a reason why I say that early scum kills can be the reason town loses games

[Ankamius]

see shiro

this is why I don't play on any other site that is a lot stricter on things like that

I don't agree with that philosophy at all since being useless is not necessarily anti-town

[Ankamius]

Yeah, giving out scum the ability to freely kill someone like FA, while getting in return 2 town lynches.

Great plan, yeah.

P. Edit

2 for 1 is town trade.

you do realize that the fact we might have picked up a bulletproof is a good shield for us, right

[Ankamius]

and/or the ability to shift people's targeting from us to someone else

I really like the idea of talking to dead people since I love to abuse neighborhoods

but I will gladly take a bulletproof since I also tend to be nightkill-bait when I have influence

[Ankamius]

so shiro

you have now three active obvtown with superpowers that could potentially be one of two roles that would make it difficult to kill without help

scum have to take a risk when they're behind in order to get rid of any of us

in a gamestate where we are on a timer before town loses the most competent setup manipulators

and you want to give scum a free opportunity to take out one of us for a low chance that you caught scum

[Ankamius]

btw, from what I remember of sakura, this kind of gambit isn't new to her

and her claimed mason partner is known to have this type of style, and is also known to fakeclaim and gambit as town as well

are you willing to accept that downside for a miniscule chance that this gambit that is easily believable as coming from either alignment is scum

[Ankamius]

btw, from what I remember of sakura, this kind of gambit isn't new to her

and her claimed mason partner is known to have this type of style, and is also known to fakeclaim and gambit as town as well

are you willing to accept that downside for a miniscule chance that this gambit that is easily believable as coming from either alignment is scum

Well excuse me for not being a master of meta.

you don't even need meta

a mason fakeclaim between two scum when one already flipped in this gamestate is insane

[Ankamius]

how often does that happen when town is at a big advantage but not enough to have it carry itself to a win

[Ankamius]

especially before a lot of the players who are on the ball aren't dead yet

[Ankamius]

we were arguing about the sakura + katsuki mason claim, sando

[Ankamius]

anyway good night everyone

hopefully I'll have the time and energy to put into a solve for this game tomorrow or the day after

but if I don't, it's because I don't ever sleep

[Ankamius]

we were arguing about the sakura + katsuki mason claim, sando

Yeah I thought that was the case, but it's a claim of mason AND a guilty on Titus isn't it? Fake-claiming mason is one thing, but fake-claiming a mason+guilty is instantly lynchable imo. Why aren't we just waiting for Titus flip to tell us?

It would be less distracting if Titus was lynchable today

[Ankamius]

Math

Outing the teammates was only suboptimal today, it was planned to happen since yesterday.

[Ankamius]

Can this pissing contest end

[Ankamius]

My townread on muffin is gone now ftr

[Ankamius]

When I'm off work, Math

I'd start with 123456789 ISO though

[Ankamius]

There's some pretty interesting things in there

[Ankamius]

Who's town, muffin

And this is legitimately an important question if you've been paying attention to what's been discussed today

[Ankamius]

frankly, anyone town player who thinks i'm scum should probably just quit mafia altogether

i'm so beyond caring about dealing with players like you that i really don't give a shit

not working with me is going to do very little for my read of you

[Ankamius]

With an events summary like
— FA leader here
— FA decides powers here
— Vote discussion over leader of FA or leader of Titus starts here
That type of shit is a lot easier to work with

Or like not even post numbers just something searchable so I can build it

The problem is... I'm a replacement myself and I only really started getting a grasp of the gamestate after I mostly threw out what my thoughts were before my replace-in.

There was a lot of talk and claims for the leader votes early on in the game.
There was a bunch of discussion early on about how to handle selecting teammates too, Nancy and Titus were both arguing that it should be randomized to some extent. Frozen Angel was supporting a fully conscientious pick followed by a claim D2 of her picks
Eventually I replaced in and started fighting with Titus about that same thing as well as having a two-way tunnel with Nancy.

Then numbers got lynched, flipped scum, and Titus was named leader for day two.

[Ankamius]

I should probably point out that the reason I was scumreading Titus for her leader-should-be-randomizing push thing is because I think she's competent enough to know that's not a good idea for town... yet is also competent enough to know that it's a good idea for scum since it's been proven that a random set of picks has good odds of catching at least one scum within it.

[Ankamius]

Probably yes

There's a case to be made for the most town people that aren't necessarily an optimal kill choice otherwise, but that depends on the gamestate itself enough that it's too much of a can of worms to open right now.

Yeah that’s simply not a thing
If you’re giving it to town that is not obvTown you’re giving it to potential scum
Well with the exception of people who are obvTown but never nightkilled

It’s almost certainly better to give powers/stuff/things to obvTown but dispersed. It’s better for power to die then to be with scum. We have lynches after all

While I'm thinking of it

I rethought about this and yeah, my suggestion isn't a good idea.

[Ankamius]

Math is town

[Ankamius]

Ankamius
Frozen Angel
MathBlade
Toranaga

Brandi

?

Human Sequencer

?

Nosferatu

?

Sando

?

BBmolla
hebichan
Katsuki
Kokichi Oma
Myloninja13
Nancy Drew 39
Sakura Hana


Drixx

?

Gamma Emerald

?

Shiro

?

the worst

?

Titus

?

zMuffinMan

?

[Ankamius]

Oh I should've done the ISO of Drixx first like my mental note said

well, oops

[Ankamius]

No, never mind, Drixx should have a green question mark, not a red one

[Ankamius]

Towning up would be a huge help, sakura

[Ankamius]

If I thought your spat with Shiro was scum-motivated, your name would be red

[Ankamius]

The best association between Numbers and Titus is when Numbers tried to defend her from me with a pretty spicy chainsaw despite having strong scumreads on both our slots.

[Ankamius]

Well

I don't think it's town-motivated either

My read is that it's within your town-range and within your scum-range

[Ankamius]

Is this the part where I ignore muffin for the rest of the game

[Ankamius]

Brandi how far in are you?

[Ankamius]

sigh

yeah, we need to come up with at least one more locktown

[Ankamius]

FA/Toranaga/myself are all confirmed strongly townreading each other

I'd bet money Mathblade is town

I'm not convinced on Drixx myself until I have an opportunity to speak to him myself

The rest of the people I'm most interested in trying to lock are the green question marks

[Ankamius]

Math I'm talking about superhero teammate picks, not the leader pick

[Ankamius]

Titus

you realize the point is to keep the powers away from scum more than anything else

right

[Ankamius]

did you see when I posted to shiro over and over again how just one scum needs to be given a power in order for them to have free nightkills on whoever they want until that slot is dead

[Ankamius]

Are you talking about the roleblocker suggestion Ank? I read that as a jailkeep?

The factional nightkill is not a superpower

[Ankamius]

People have until like midnight to say they hate the Frozen Angel leader choice if they do.

I hate the leader FA pick, it's unnecessarily dangerous.

The assumption is Cerb just failed to pick BP or redirect, when it also provides the easy cover for FA to claim she picked Cerb and pick someone else while killing Cerb.

This assumption fails because there's no way FA can predict whether Cerberus will be mediumed tonight or not.

[Ankamius]

Are you talking about the roleblocker suggestion Ank? I read that as a jailkeep?

The factional nightkill is not a superpower

It's not? Then would any bp work?

Yes? There's no indication that Impenetrable Skin only works on superpowers

[Ankamius]

That assumption still fails unless you also assume that scum would know D2's powers before the end of D1

But, that possibility I didn't think of. Did you ask the mod about it?

[Ankamius]

Titus

This paranoia isn't warranted, you literally just saw me pull Mathblade into a compromise (albeit with Eddie Cane's help, but I still had a hand in it) when our reads were virtually opposite each other's.

I'm just as heavily engaged in this game, so there's really no reason to assume he's going to go off the rails into whatever lala land you're assuming he'll go into while I'm alive.

[Ankamius]

I'm talking about police academy 1 in that example, Math.

[Ankamius]

Might as well have confirmation of whether it's possible or not

[Ankamius]

Titus

This paranoia isn't warranted, you literally just saw me pull Mathblade into a compromise (albeit with Eddie Cane's help, but I still had a hand in it) when our reads were virtually opposite each other's.

I'm just as heavily engaged in this game, so there's really no reason to assume he's going to go off the rails into whatever lala land you're assuming he'll go into while I'm alive.

90% of the time he does. I will think about it.

should I mention that I did that when he was scumreading me

and this game he thinks I'm town

I don't think you have a reason to worry about it

[Ankamius]

That assumption still fails unless you also assume that scum would know D2's powers before the end of D1

But, that possibility I didn't think of. Did you ask the mod about it?

They could redirect onto themselves, it fails at that point, I just checked and it's in the Day1 FAQ.

mm...

That's actually concerning, yeah.

I'm getting a headache trying to parse this into my head. My initial reaction is that pushing for this specifically is a really bizarre gambit that doesn't seem worth the risk this early in the game (even with a dead scum D1), but it's hard to tell without sitting down and mapping it out.

[Ankamius]

I kind of want Tora/FA's opinion before hashing that out any further.

Plus there's several slots I'd like input on before the end of day.

I'm not sure if there's much more we can do before that happens.

[Ankamius]

That assumption still fails unless you also assume that scum would know D2's powers before the end of D1

But, that possibility I didn't think of. Did you ask the mod about it?

They could redirect onto themselves, it fails at that point, I just checked and it's in the Day1 FAQ.

mm...

That's actually concerning, yeah.

I'm getting a headache trying to parse this into my head. My initial reaction is that pushing for this specifically is a really bizarre gambit that doesn't seem worth the risk this early in the game (even with a dead scum D1), but it's hard to tell without sitting down and mapping it out.

Wait what? Someone summarize this for me. I am lost a bit

Redirector?

Day 1's Siren's Call.

[Ankamius]

I'm starting to remember why I don't try in early days most games in larges

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Drixx: where are you at reads wise, or is that roughly it for what you have right now? Relatedly, how caught up are you?

[Ankamius]

Ok this discussion has to happen, this is stupid, but we have to do this. I'm nominating 2 people for leader for town to vote between, if you disagree on the 2 say so with you you'd replace with what. I'm saying 5 people for hero-team, again say who you want to replace, be aware you can't use more than 1 power per night when you decide this. By default your superhero team should include you leaders for protection sake.

Leaders:
Sando
Ankanimus

Superhero:
Sando
Ankanimus
Gamma
Hebichan
Brandi

Problem 1: You can't pick yourself as a teammate

[Ankamius]

Oh, derp

[Ankamius]

Sando

Can you go into your townreads on Gamma and Hebi?

I don't really have an opinion of Hebichan either way, but Gamma's really bizarre push on me and then immediately dropping it was gross.

[Ankamius]

All my reads are in a post of mine not too far back, the one with all the question marks.

Gamma and the worst are my two current biggest scumreads. I'll flesh out my duckling read soonish when I get a chance.

My other scumreads are light ones, my townreads are light to moderate somewhere.

[Ankamius]

If we get 3 power claims, then we'd suppose at that point I gave 2 scumbuddies powers in that setup and just lynch me.

Not if we'd told you to only give 3 people powers...which was what MB was intimating.

"Hey Titus give X, Y, Z superhero powers"
X, Y, Z confirm they got powers
Cool! You're free to go Titus!

The point is there is no way to tell if two extra people aren't picked

And if people start being tampered with, then there aren't claims of those last two to lock people into a list of people it could possibly be.

[Ankamius]

Lets fix that next games or from now on!

I mean, i wouldnt mind it's just.
Generally when i put effort D1, all that happens is that people want to lynch me because im apparently some godlike scum player that can fake anything, which isnt really true. It's driven me to the point where I want to roll scum and destroy my scum meta once and for all.

It doesn't work that way

Otherwise I wouldn't have any problems being obvtown in my town games

[Ankamius]

I was referring to the last sentence but ok

[Ankamius]

Because I'm on my phone and splicing quotes on my phone is a giant pain in the ass.

[Ankamius]

I will be on my desktop soon, can anyone who wanted responses from me that I missed while I wasn't at home please quote or link them for me?

Muchas gracias

[Ankamius]

I was trying to figure out what it could be if not marmalade

[Ankamius]

The flips are confirmed binary, it says that somewhere in the opening post.

[Ankamius]

I don't understand why one of them has to be scum and not just both being lynchbait he wants to push in the future

[Ankamius]

Having too many scumreads isn't that indicative unless there's something else that makes it necessarily scummy.

[Ankamius]

Do you think the push on me towards the end of day one was scum-motivated, math

[Ankamius]

Ugh I read up to the present but I remember none of it

How much time is left? Enough for me to sleep?

[Ankamius]

I'm catching up soon

Anything specific I should be aware of from recent stuff?

[Ankamius]

From what I'm seeing from this page, a lot of this conversation looks useless to me

[Ankamius]

What's the tally at?

[Ankamius]

Who else has been suggested for leader? It's kind of obvious by now that nobody but the core block wants me as that

[Ankamius]

Well we need to get our shit together and get it figured out now because this posturing in general is scummy as fuck the longer it goes on

[Ankamius]

Can we just not have this fight please

[Ankamius]

Sakura how sure are you that muffin is town

[Ankamius]

cool

this fight is helping nobody

stop it

[Ankamius]

I'm back at my desktop, so I'll be catching up shortly. I'm just settling in right now.

[Ankamius]

Now with the three posts here, if Numbers was town, he should have been happy that two of his scumreads were going at it.

He could have offered to bus or what not. Instead he argues the same could be applied to Ank.

Now WHY? is the question.

Ank, why do you think he included you? Yeah, this is even more reason why this makes no sense. I did think that Ank and Numbers could have been w/w at the time but when Ank made that post about Numbers’ having town markers on them, I realized I was probably wrong about that.

Ftr numbers is probably flipping town.

The wagon has huge town markers all over it

I don't know what exactly you're looking for with this question, I think it's pretty obvious he was trying to shade me or push me as a potential mislynch target in the future.

[Ankamius]

I think the push on ank at the end of day yesterday could have been a scum coutnerwagon to numbers, since it was close.

I'm with muffin here with drixx, I see a lot of defense, so that's not going anywhere.

My reads are kinda like (titus, drixx) for scum and I'm a bit null on a lot of others.

Think math is always town here though.

I don't like this post.

[Ankamius]

We have one fucking day here people.

The only wagon that isn’t completely garbage is MuffinMan or maybe Sando because of some shit he has said. Drixx is obvTown and t

here is no “case” on Mylo it’s the same debunked meta point

Can you quote this for me? I don't remember seeing it

[Ankamius]

You know what, fuck this, i dont even know what to believe in anymore.

Drixx, first of all, what you've said muffin is doing is something he recently did in a town game, plus that's his playstyle as far as memory serves, and it's part of the reason I like playing with him, i find his snarkyness and sarcasm funny to read.

Granted im not that great at infering little differences, I ask that if you're town at least take a look at his play in minuet's trio and tell me if you find something different enough to warrant a difference in alignment.

I think the main difference between the two games from what I've seen is that in Minuet, despite not really caring, he still went into a lot of his thoughts more completely than he is here despite having what appears to be pretty similar levels of confidence and level of gamesolveness so far.

The reason I specifically find muffin scummy this game is because:

1. That, his play in general is looking like he's floating around until he finds the best way to push his agenda and then throwing it out there without necessarily looking to get the game to a solved state. (as a bonus, this would also be a decent explanation for him not dying)
2. Pushing Mathblade is an easy way to derail the game without specifically looking bad for it

[Ankamius]

Btw did we ever finish the leader vote claim?

[Ankamius]

Not really...

Current Leader vote tally

Frozen Angel: Sakura Hana, Hebichan, Shiro, (Katsuki?), Mathblade, muffin
Ankamius: ...

Please guys we're running out of time

I'm referring to the D1/D2 leader votes

[Ankamius]

why on earth would i want to cooperate with someone like mathblade, sakura? it's hard to tell when he's actually town because he furthers the scum wincon almost every single game he's in and he actually thinks he's making good points despite being blatantly wrong so very often

in the words of a renowned philosopher, i'm pretty sure drinking cyanide is a better alternative than working with mathblade (paraphrasing, but close enough to what he said)

How old are you again?

[Ankamius]

In either case Anka, do you think you're going to catch up?
If not can u read 3200 to 3242
And tell me what you think?

The muffin/mathblade is just the same garbage as everything else

I agree that hebi looks better in those pages.

That's... about it? A lot of what's been going on while I was gone has been mostly useless nonsense from what I'm seeing.

[Ankamius]

All I know is a no lynch is really bad for town. I seriously doubt that Titus doesn’t get lynched D3 especially after that terribad hebi push.

I’m starting to question Math’s reasoning. I don’t want his bad reads to cost us. Evrnthough he was right about scum!random and town!the worst, he was also dead wrong about town!Shoshin and especially town!Saj and come to think of it,

I agree with Muffin on not voting Ank, since she almost lost us that game.

So either FA or Sakura then.

This is the last game we're playing together.

[Ankamius]

K well I've had enough of the shade.

I don't want to be leader anymore, I really don't want to deal with that.

See you all tomorrow.

[Ankamius]

(ftr that means you're choosing between FA and Sakura tonight, I outright refuse to be selected)

[Ankamius]

All I know is a no lynch is really bad for town. I seriously doubt that Titus doesn’t get lynched D3 especially after that terribad hebi push.

I’m starting to question Math’s reasoning. I don’t want his bad reads to cost us. Evrnthough he was right about scum!random and town!the worst, he was also dead wrong about town!Shoshin and especially town!Saj and come to think of it,

I agree with Muffin on not voting Ank, since she almost lost us that game.

So either FA or Sakura then.

This is the last game we're playing together.

Oh c’mon Ank. I really enjoy playing with you but your reads in that game almost cost us. \_0_/

What do you want me to say?

I’m genuinely sorry if I upset you with that post. I don’t ever try to make anyone feel bad *Sigh*

You had much better reads in Necromancer, so I wouldn’t take it so hard.

That shade was infuriating and you know very well why it would be infuriating.

Also, here's a fun challenge for you: Go look at my ISO and see how often I was wrong on my townblocs. The only time I ever had scum in there was when I had half the playerlist pegged as town with the traitor as my weakest read and right before I died when I based an entire solve around Shoshin being scum.

[Ankamius]

I get the logical argument. But I think a lot of us myself included need to take a step back overnight. But like he’s town. Like I just “feel it” and “feel it” reads are rare for me.

can you explain the logical argument to me

[Ankamius]

oh

okay

[Ankamius]

K well I've had enough of the shade.

I don't want to be leader anymore, I really don't want to deal with that.

See you all tomorrow.

(ftr that means you're choosing between FA and Sakura tonight, I outright refuse to be selected)

[Ankamius]

Why are we tallying n3 votes itt

so scum can't just kill one and outvote the other

[Ankamius]

vote not me

[Ankamius]

K well I've had enough of the shade.

I don't want to be leader anymore, I really don't want to deal with that.

See you all tomorrow.

oh come on ... there is literally nothing you must deal with besides choosing your town reads for night when you're a leader.

If the shade towards me today is any indication, I'd have to deal with that endlessly all tomorrow if I was elected

And I really don't want to deal with that

[Ankamius]

Current Leader vote tally

Frozen Angel: Sakura Hana, Hebichan, Shiro, (Katsuki?), Mathblade, muffin, Toranaga
Ankamius: ...


This is what i have at the moment as far as leader vote tally goes, if you all go for FA, and titus is scum, FA goes rip and who knows what scum will do with leader votes.

[Ankamius]

for clarity

what is that list Titus

[Ankamius]

as in

what is the list of people that you discussed previously

[Ankamius]

FA

leader vote pools

[Ankamius]

oh

yeah I forgot about 1417

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Sando

[Ankamius]

that's because of the two of us being the other choices, math

[Ankamius]

no

we started with 21

[Ankamius]

w/e we don't have time to argue this

just choose one

[Ankamius]

it's less not enough time and more not enough people I think

[Ankamius]

3727

[Ankamius]

Good game, guys

Most of my thoughts are in my Private PT and in the Dead PT

[Ankamius]

other than nancy was obvscum d1 etc.

[Ankamius]

(that's not me bragging about a read, that's me hating the fact that I gave up a very strong correct scumread for shitty reasons)

[Ankamius]

Mathblade, you specifically would probably get a lot of use out of reading my Private PT; you were very very scummy on day three and I outlined a good chunk of that there. I could have sworn you dropped the 6x healing touch idea in the thread towards the end of day three but I checked your entire ISO throughout that day 3-4 times and I can't find it so idk

Anyways, I'm sorry for my toxicity on day one, primarily towards Nancy, and my general attitude for a good chunk of the end of day two.

Now that I know roughly what was going on throughout that part of the game, I'm kind of mystified I was killed that fast; this game was another example of my general assessments about the gamestate being correct, but very incorrect conclusions, and therefore reads, from them.

I think I have a bit of a better idea of where my towngame's shortcomings are and a couple ideas on how to at least lessen them for the future.

[Ankamius]

other than nancy was obvscum d1 etc.

(that's not me bragging about a read, that's me hating the fact that I gave up a very strong correct scumread for shitty reasons)

Just to point out,

Nancy actually played really damn well this game, having a playerlist of this caliber and not only surviving for most of the game but also being locked town for a good chunk of that survival time is a very impressive feat for sone's first ever scumgame. I'd be very proud of this game.

[Ankamius]

Brian: I think the setup was very well made; there wasn't anything particularly egregious that I saw other than Spiritual Mediumship and Petrification, I think the game went at such a hugely fast pace because the setup itself was interesting and trying to manipulate it to do what we wanted was genuinely an interesting problem we had to tackle. It was what made me heavily engage as hard as I did throughout the game despite my emotions sort of... making me not want to.


I wish mediumship never spawned on N1, it was awful knowing it wasn't a guarantee that I'd have an effect on the game again after I died, but feeling obligated to put all my effort in anyways so that if I DID get channeled, it would have been a good use of the ability... but then night three ended and I was given the dead thread. That hurt.

[Ankamius]

Here's an irony

I made a huge deal about scum Negatekilling players on day two

And I was the only slot that was ever negatekilled

[Ankamius]

Tora I think you're the only person in this entire playerlist that even remembers a single thing I did this game

[Ankamius]

Although I think its pretty rare for someone to be this spammy in the main thread and still have an even larger private PT

So that's something I guess

[Ankamius]

I can't really comment on that Drixx, I fired right back at her in a similar way on day one

[Ankamius]

I noted it a few times in my private PT, FA

I was worried that Sakura was being pushed up to being leader over me so scum could have a puppet leader
Then I was pushed up anyways and was killed

Nobody that I know of noticed that correlation, which should've been a red flag of some kind.

[Ankamius]

btw the mass bombing thing was just objectively a bad idea

It might've been more obvious if I had gotten channeled since I was getting reads on slots that were 'lurkers' as well as the hyperposters, but the biggest issue with the bombing plan is that it doesn't give you information like lynching + killing does. Sure it just wins you the game outright if you're right... but again, Cerb and I were both killed the first two nights, a slot that is very competent at working setups and one of the biggest slots in keeping everybody on track regarding the setup. That's a red flag that town probably isn't in a position to be taking that kind of risk.

[Ankamius]

you didn't play bad

town overall just had deathtunnel vision on powers and it made everybody play worse as a consequence

[Ankamius]

FA

if it benefited scum in some way for you to do a certain thing, it's very worth looking at so you can potentially see that situation again in the future and correctly determine it's scum influence

[Ankamius]

idk

Math explained to me in private why specifically he wanted me killed, but I don't remember enough about the game to answer why it was net positive for scum for you to be leader

it probably had to do with power distribution? idk

[Ankamius]

FA

I called Nancy scum on day one

[Ankamius]

correction

I VERY LOUDLY called Nancy scum on day one

and then dropped it because I reset for some fucking reason

[Ankamius]

here's my case:

1. Your tone is significantly subdued this game
2. What you decide to comment on is very safe
3. Your general stances both make sense and are anti-town; the latter I can forgive by itself, but not when combined with the former and #1
4. #1556 is not giving me town feels.

Necromancer:

1. Your tone was blatantly town even without the meltdown D1
2. You were pushing anything and everything you could get your hands on without regard to how it looks
3. Your stances and general thoughts made no sense, but it was pretty clearly not designed to be misleading or pushing a scum agenda
4. Your attack on me was consistently and strongly town, literally the strongest townread I've ever gotten

Minuet's Trio:

I don't know 100% what town-me would have thought (especially since I never read most of the game before I replaced in), but your tone was blatantly town.

I see none of this in your play here.

I'll just point this out:

The push on me in Necromancer was sudden and had force behind it.

This piddling response to the scumread has no oomph behind it. You're not trying to sort a player that you believe should be able to read you but isn't. The way you're trying to pick apart my reasoning and justify why I should be townreading you instead of using it to sort me is a huge indicator that you're not town.

You spent the first several posts in your ISO passively arguing setup stuff, then came out with a lukewarm ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh reads list later.

You aren't trying to sort people.
Your questioning is busiwork.
You're pushing anti-town uses of the setup.

Why should I be townreading this? This is literally a game where none of the indicators I've used to correctly townread you in Necromancer are present and your play doesn't match what I saw in Minuet.

The way you're responding to my scumread is just the final nail in the coffin. If you were town, that would have indicated it in some way.

I think I'm reliving my scumread on Gorkington in police academy 1 here

the similarities are uncanny

I don't write cases unless I have to or feel like town is going to shit the bed hard if I don't force a lynch on one of my scumreads.

I'm going to go with the Gorkington tell here; he obvtowns immediately as town every time and doesn't as scum.

Nancy is looking to be the same, and both players are the type well within the subset of styles I can easily read.

I'm saying Nancy calling me out for not voting her is ridiculous u

@Ankamius: Just to clarify here, you're suspicious of Titus, but *very* suspicious of ASDPI? Is that what I should conclude from everything you've been saying and where your vote is currently located?

Reading is helpful, guys

Misreading more like. I’m almost starting to wonder if this is some bizarro reverse pocket? You’re so badly reading me that you seem to be practically begging me to catch it? But why would you do that? Are you setting me for up for a possible mislynch down the road?

A). You scumread me based on provable faulty reasons. I was far from obvtown in Minuet, considering the fact that I had not one but two all-town wagons on me.

B). You have yet to request any links and/or dispute my blatant MU evidence contradicting your bs read on me.

C). You seem to be locked into an inexplicable tunnel vision and have no need to correctly sort me or even question your read on me.

D). You deliberately misconstrue my post about your voting Numbers and somehow find a way to make it about me instead.

E). Immediately after Sakura’s post about Numbers being at L-6, you suddenly switch wagons?

When does town!Ank ever ignore blatant evidence against pushing a bad lynch on someone but you’re not only doing that here, you’re even doubling down on it? Since when does town!Ank not care about a potential mislynch?

I know you’ll respond that you don’t think I’m one but your sketchy behaviour for all of the reasons I’ve listed above, says otherwise.

See in sharp contrast UFO initially wrongly scumread me but unlike you he actually tried to sort me, that’s why I’m so confident you’re not town here.

A: I told you before, you were obvtown based on the metrics that I look for with you. I've noticed that people read you wrong in Minuet's because of NAI reasons, then started townreading you here for those same reasons after realizing it's not a scumtell. That's not how to read you.

B: I don't use meta outside of my personal experience, especially from a site with a completely different culture and meta. It's very very unlikely that it has any strong correlation to anything here.

C:

You've given me no reason to townread you. You've had no oomph behind your push on me UNTIL IT'S BEEN MADE CLEAR THAT I'M LOSING THE BATTLE.

D: Ok yeah, I misread the post. I hadn't even been awake five minutes.

E: No, immediately after Cerberus asking me about my reads.

A). You don’t know how to read me if this game is any indication.

B). It doesn’t matter that MU is different, the point I’m making is that your main reasons for scumreading me fall flat if you even bother to ISO me in the games I mentioned. It is 100% connected to what’s happening here.

C). If you are truly town here (and I’m seriously doubting that attm), you should actually be happy about that. The fact that. You aren’t plus not even questioning your read on me, makes me doubt your being town in this game.

D). So if you realize that, why not comment on what I actually did intend with that comment?

E). Sure, Sakura’s post had absolutely nothing to do with it. Okay.

You know

MU games aren't going to matter.

The type of read I have on you is based on how your play THIS game matches against what I know about how you think.

Your tone isn't scummy in general, your tone specific to this game is scummy.
Your stances aren't scummy, your stances related to the game itself is scummy.
etc.

This shit isn't something I halfass. I pride myself on being able to read stream of consciousness-type analytical playstyles for a damn good reason.

Look at why I was townreading Papa Zito in Necromancer, that is a very good example of this in action.

You were blatantly trying to scumhunt in Necromancer, you were blatantly town in Minuet, albeit for reasons that most people wouldn't think of at all I think. But what happens when I look at how you've played this game?

Your approach this game isn't town.
Your questioning isn't town.
Your response to my scumread isn't town.

I'm sure I can bullshit up a case that shows this if I stare at your posts long enough, but it's intuitive in nature and I generally don't case unless I'm pretty damn sure I have the game either completely solved or close to solved because then I can fit where every player fits into the gamestate. But, I can just TELL that you're not approaching this as town.

[Ankamius]

it's not a black and white thing, FA, it's specific to the game itself

I think meta is generally trash because people look at it in a black and white lens, rather than using it as a profiler to assess how likely a specific response is going to occur in a specific situation in the future

the play she displayed itself was not a scumtell, the play she displayed relative to what was going on and the situation at hand was a scumtell

[Ankamius]

read strength doesn't matter if you can't do anything with them

[Ankamius]

I just think nancy town can do the things she did in day 1. at day 2 when she tried and pushed mylo lynch it went a little over borders and I started to see her as scum.

in hindsight, her day one play combined with her day two play was scum indicative in general, primarily the way she was acting towards me the entire time

her read shifts and general attitude shift had no natural thought process behind it, and I didn't note it properly even though I did notice it at the time

Titus being leader d2 really caused a lot of issues it turns out

[Ankamius]

I do wonder if some day ill actually be a good player...

throw the entire game under a critical lens and get to the heart of why the game went the way it did and what your part in it was

see what you did correctly and what you did incorrectly

find the differences separating the two of them

as you analyze more games, find patterns of what you're consistently doing well in and what you're consistently doing poorly in

find the situations that cause each

figure out how you can steer the game towards the situations you excel in while recognizing those situations you do poorly in

etc.

mafia isn't really the type of game you can have a lot of pride in if you want to be strong within it, it's a very complex set of moving parts and no one player is going to have a perfect game... well, ever. there's always more you can do to get better reads, more you can do to recognize and push those better reads, and more you can do to ensure that town reaches the same correct scumreads you do

[Ankamius]

I still don't quite get why there was independent support for Titus being leader...?

[Ankamius]

Cerberus was the main person supporting that viewpoint from the town side

I think there was one other person too but I don't quite remember offhand

[Ankamius]

I legitimately don't even remember seeing that

it might've been in the mass of posts I didn't really read

[Ankamius]

I voted for her because CW to scum, and I misremembered their position on eachother's wagons. I thought the positioning was too town, but I was wrong. Something like she was 4th on the wagon originally, and I thought she was 6th and the vote that pushed things over the edge to make that lynch likely, or vice versa. I don't remember, but I remember that was my general thought process.

Oh, and I also didn't think the random thing was auto-scum coming from Titus.

I thought it was a scumtell mainly because I think Titus would've been a lot better than that as town regarding setup stuff

but it did make sense as scum wanting to push for suboptimal setup plays

[Ankamius]

Like I still dont get any of the muffin/theta scumreads.

tbf mine wasn't the best either, I thought muffin was scum for not pushing the 6x healing touch idea

but then (I think it was Brian?) told me where the thought process came from and it made a lot more sense; yes the 6x healing touch was the best idea for what we had available... but can you really rely on a group of six town specifically following that plan?

[Ankamius]

probably better kills + more manipulable tbh

something like that anyways

[Ankamius]

that's why I thought you were selected to be a puppet :/

[Ankamius]

Obvious?

[Ankamius]

I'm referring to the day 2 push, not day 4

[Ankamius]

I want all the power