Open 735: Watchmen Wanted - Game Over!

Keyser Söze
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Post Post #575  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:04 pm

Reundo, please present your case.

Dunnstral, please present your case.

It’s just gone midnight and I would like to discuss both cases.

the worst
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Post Post #576  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:05 pm

I might need my hand held through it a little Reundo, I'm not sure I see it. :(
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Keyser Söze
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Post Post #577  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:06 pm

In post 562, the worst wrote:I have pretty high expectations for town!Tora rn so take that how you will

Is he fulfilling those expectations?

On a scale between 1 and 10.

the worst
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Post Post #578  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:07 pm

~6-7ish I think
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Reundo
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Post Post #579  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:07 pm

Whatever, I guess I'll just make my case. I don't really have anything better to do anyways.

the worst
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Post Post #580  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:08 pm

Thanks Oshawott!
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Flicker
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Post Post #581  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:13 pm

Nauci replaces Sesq, effective immediately.

Reundo
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Post Post #582  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:16 pm

In post 581, Flicker wrote:Nauci replaces Sesq, effective immediately.


Fair warning, Nauci: this might be a tough game to figure out.

the worst
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Post Post #583  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:17 pm

In post 553, the worst wrote:my skin is crawling... I have goosebumps.... what's happening?

fkn knew this was an ill omen
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Keyser Söze
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Post Post #584  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:21 pm

The perfect player to replace into that slot!

Welcome x

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Post Post #585  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:25 pm

Votecount 2.02

Dunnstral (3) - Ausuka , Keyser Söze , Toranaga
Keyser Söze (1) - Reundo
Ausuka (1) - Dunnstral
northsidegal (1) - Irrelephant11

Not voting: Eragon, Nauci, northsidegal, the worst

The deadline for Day 2 is 2:17 pm CT on Thursday, September 20, in (expired on 2018-09-20 15:17:24).

Nauci
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Post Post #586  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:36 pm

WELL HOWDY Y'ALL (☞゚∀゚)☞

Oh man I'm kinda bummed I didn't roll scum w/ tw and/or irrelephant; I was hoping so hard

This looks like an awfully fun crowd

Give me a couple of days to catch up mmmkay?

the worst
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Post Post #587  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:37 pm

THIS DOESNT LOOK LIKE TOWN NAUCI
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Post Post #588  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:39 pm

In post 587, the worst wrote:THIS DOESNT LOOK LIKE TOWN NAUCI


You're lucky I can't swap back to that avatar right now ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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Post Post #589  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:40 pm

VOTE: Irrelephant11 on principle/policy. Personal policy. (´・ω・`)

the worst
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Post Post #590  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:41 pm

you're lucky my mouth is too small to bite Hillary's head off :lol:
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Eragon
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Post Post #591  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:10 pm

Nauci town; Cats FTW!!!!!!!

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Post Post #592  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:15 pm

Spoiler: My Case On Keyser Söze
In post 123, volxen wrote:@Sesq, why not just share with us your reasons for scumreading Keyser? You started the game by taking a slight jab at him in , and then in you said that Keyser is “entirely detached from the state of the game ... but not in a scum way”.

In post 148, volxen wrote:@2.718, are you still scumreading Keyser?

In post 237, volxen wrote: Keyser - I actually like that he started the game by asking about hypoclaiming in , it showed that right off the bat he wanted to strategize on how to potentially make things more difficult for the scumteam. This is only my second game on this site so I don’t have any firsthand experience with hypoclaiming or its effectiveness, but I think it’s not likely that a member of the scumteam would suggest this as a tactic, since it could, theoretically, allow the watcher to reveal who they got a guilty on while making it more difficult for the scumteam to identify the real watcher.

Scum Reads:

2.718 – I really didn’t like his post-RVS opening in . I feel like he tried to completely misrepresent what Keyser really meant when he said that he didn’t want to talk about hypoclaiming/setup past page 1, and even after Keyser clarified this in (that he wasn’t “forbidding” discussion but rather that he didn’t want to partake in it himself), 2.718 still continued to press the issue in .

I also didn’t like that in 2.718 was quick to side with Reundo in the Keyser vs Reundo argument that was going on at the time. 2.718 made the comment here that “Reundo's 46 is a little annoying but I like how he looked at everyone”. At the time, Reundo only had two posts, and , in which he mainly focused on attacking Keyser, with only brief references made to Sesq, GameNBurger, and northsidegal in . 2.718’s post made it sound like Reundo was taking a balanced look at “everyone”, when in reality he was primarily just hammering down on Keyser. I feel like this was a very weak reason for 2.718 to jump in so quickly to side with Reundo.

In post 280, volxen wrote:
In post 256, Irrelephant11 wrote:@Volxen in your previous readslist why did you include more nullreads than scum or town reads?

Reundo is someone that I would like to get a read on, but I’ve been having a very difficult time trying to read him. I REALLY did NOT like the way he started this game in . But I’m not sure if his interactions (and arguments) with Keyser are SvT or TvT (Keyser is still a townread for me). The last time I went through his ISO and reviewed his interactions with Keyser, I ended up just getting really frustrated because I couldn’t get a read on him one way or another. I’m going to review Reundo’s content again, and hopefully I will catch something that I may have missed the first time around.

In post 484, volxen wrote:t like his entrance to the game and the way he attacked Keyser right off the bat, and I think the way he is playing this game is very opportunistic.


First point I was going to make was how volxen was literally obsessed with Keyser as the above quotes show. Even in his scum-read of 2.178 he couldn't help bringing up Keyser and giving yet another HOT TAKE on the whole me verses Keyser debate. This kind of focus is completely unnatural and forced, which could mean one of two things: A)That he was afraid of spewing anyone as town so he thought the best bet was to spew Keyser!town (plausible, but eh) OR B)That he was trying to make his scum-buddy seem as towny as possible, even when it goes way overboard, which is actually more unlikely than A, but becomes increasingly more likely when you take into account that Keyser basically blatantly distanced himself from volxen.

In post 123, volxen wrote:@Sesq, why not just share with us your reasons for scumreading Keyser? You started the game by taking a slight jab at him in , and then in you said that Keyser is “entirely detached from the state of the game ... but not in a scum way”. You also said in that post that you changed your mind about him, which would suggest you no longer found him scummy, but you kept your vote on him anyways. And then in you are apparently back to scumreading him. So why not just explain why you scumread him – is there really anything useful gained by putting it out there that you scumread him, but then refuse to elaborate any further? And what exactly did you mean when you said that he is “detached” from the state of the game, but in a way that is not indicative of him being scum? Trying to understand your motivations here.


This is a really bad entrance, especially according to Keyser's supposed method of scum-hunting: it was a post about a topic that was well over and done with (which he called out me for), a topic that likely wasn't going to lead to any AI responses at all (something that he later called out Dunn for). There was little reason why Keyser WOULDN'T call out volxen for this type of post, except, of course, if they were scum-buddies, which was the first big ping for a volxen/Keyser pairing, which was why I didn't really have any problem switching my vote over to volxen.

I'm not going to quote it here because it's a little long, but when Keyser responded to Ausuka's readslist he pretty much responded to all of her reads except for volxen and GameNBurger (though tbh he did talk about GameNBurger just a bit earlier), which was again blatant distancing between him and volxen.

In post 187, Keyser Söze wrote:I can see / clearly read Volxen’s posts, but don’t feel like they’ve opened up yet (free flowing posting). Feels too laboured/restricted at the moment.


This read of volxen makes no sense, and almost sounds like a town-read (?) which was why it was a little weird when he jumped onto volxen's wagon later in the day.

In post 266, Keyser Söze wrote:@volxen

Are you saying that those three players are scummy for contributing to the apathy/lurking that festers in this game? Or are you just pissed off for being s/read; being our first wagon?


It would make sense to at least try to look like he was pushing the volxen wagon. Not scummy in and of itself, but it implies he scum-reads volxen a little, which is a bit important later on.

In post 368, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 359, Irrelephant11 wrote:I’ll vote Sesq if that’s the lynch

Hey Irrelephant, I'm gonna go the WIFOM route sorry: do you think scum-Sesq would have a bit more survival/verve/urgency in them?


This is literally the only post I couldn't parse from scum!Keyser, but at the same time it would look almost a bit too bad if he jumped onto such easy lynchbait.

In post 374, Keyser Söze wrote:@Irrelephant - yeah gonna try and work an alternative wagon as we head into the deadline


This post, however, pretty much nullifies the affect the last post had, because I couldn't get why town!Keyser would want to move onto a new wagon when he didn't necessarily clear volxen or give any indication whatsoever that he was town-reading him.

That's pretty much all I had on volxen/Keyser distancing (or at least what I've bothered to bring up). I was then just basically going to summarize all the anti-town/scummy things he did this game, including but not limited to...

>Basically only responding to my initial case on him with "town could do the same things I'm doing right now!", which is a pretty petty defense, then when I brought up that I wasn't convinced by this he basically hammered down on the concept while later claiming I was focusing too much on him, despite the fact he basically didn't prove any of my points wrong so I had no reason not to shift focus.
>The fact that out of the whole lynch pool D1, the only player on there who didn't criticize Keyser directly was volxen, his own scum-buddy. His only scum-reads were basically people who criticized him and he was far too happy to throw out town-reads to anyone who town-read him, which completely neglects the possibility of buddying and is not town motivated at all.
>Related to the above, pretty much the way he was happy-go-lucky with everyone who town-read him but super aggressive with anyone who didn't. It wasn't a natural shift in tone, and it certainly wasn't town-motivated. Also, generally not accepting of the fact that people could possibly scum-read Keyser.
>Basically the way he did a complete 180 on me when I didn't suspect him anymore.
>Oh, and the super obvious Huntress night-kill. It's such a scum!Keyser night-kill it's not even funny, really.

There's probably some stuff I forgot, and a lot of the case is a bit rushed because I'm not too motivated to case caught scum so some of the points aren't all that polished, but I feel the above was plenty enough evidence here to convict scum!Keyser. Honestly, I was going to push a the worst/Keyser pairing at the start of the day because I thought the worst was pocketing a bit too much for my taste (and reminded me a lot of my first scum game with him) and the progression to voting volxen didn't really feel natural to me. I thought volxen put only town in his scum-reads because it basically read as a desperate attempt to start another counter-wagon and he wouldn't really want to bus Toranaga in that scenario, but I did suspect him a bit for pushing volxen but never actually voting him until it was clear he had to bus, which was a pretty noticeable ping. I thought Ausuka's votes felt opportunistic as well and I didn't find her initial read very organic, so my lynch plan would've basically been {Keyser, the worst, Toranaga, Ausuka} which would've worked out fine in the end anyhow.

Eragon
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Post Post #593  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:19 pm

19999999999999% confirmed town{Nauci}
Spoiler:
kidding.



{Irrelephant, The worst, Keyser}
{toranaga, nauci}
{Ausuka, NSG}
{dunnstral, Reundo}


right now Im not very confident on the reads themselves, because I haven't had ISO dive time yet.
Basically this is just the strength of my reads, so the top bracket is my strongest town reads(but not, like, confirmed town, or "IMO never ever flips scum town")
second is town reads, but could sort of go either way
Ausuka and NSG are basically null
And dunn and Reundo are both small scum reads, but not very confident in them

Eragon
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Post Post #594  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:25 pm

ill explain things/go more in depth/re-order/do stuff later if I have time

the worst
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Post Post #595  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:02 pm

@Reundo
interesting take on Keyser. I owe it a better evaluation. I took it as bad pocketing from volxen.
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Post Post #596  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:43 pm

In post 587, the worst wrote:THIS DOESNT LOOK LIKE TOWN NAUCI

that does look like a wolf lmao

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Post Post #597  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:45 pm

I don't think it is though

and dunn just looks way too shy with his ausuka scumread. seems like a cornered wolf

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Post Post #598  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:46 pm

In post 536, Dunnstral wrote:VOTE: Ausuka

In post 549, Dunnstral wrote:Don't think it's Tornaga, think we should be taking a second look at Ausuka

dunn's posts today, looks very frozen.

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Post Post #599  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:47 pm

it is actually a generally pingy entrance (and bad slot) lmao but I wasn't gonna go there for reals yet, 587 is an injoke

pedit: yeah I'm not digging Dunn today
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