Heroes Wanted! (Game Over)

[Sando]

We technically have 3 conf!towns waiting on healing becoming availabl

I am not absolutely sold on this

In case you're not sold on the conf!town rather than just being right about the numbers of people:

Mod confirmed to me when I asked about Mylo yesterday that Mylo is when scum are 2 less than town, Lylo is when scum are 1 less than town.

We currently have 6 unpetrified people who are "in play", 2 scum alive, and we're mod-confirmed being in Mylo.

Ergo, of the 6 unpetrified it's 2v4.

Ergo, the petrified people are conf!town.

[Sando]

Sure:

N1 Leader+Picks - (FA) Toranaga, Ankamius, Cerberus v666, Nancy Drew 39, Shiro
N2 Leader+Picks - (Titus) Ank Nancy FA Math Shiro
N3 Leader+Picks - (FA) Mathblade Sakura Shiro drixx nancy
N4 Leader+Picks - Mathblade (Leader), Sakura Hana (SS), Frozen Angel (SS?), Drixx (Doctor), Nancy, Stungun
N5 Leader+Picks - (Sakura), Nero, FA, Tora, Kokichi, Drixx

This is composed from a few places, but should be correct.

N6 was supposed to be: Math+Drixx/Nero/Sando/Creature/Kokichi

I can confirm this didn't happen.

[Sando]

Mod just confirmed to me that scum (well anyone) can use a single power twice.

Also confirmed it can be used to double day-powers.

Might not be a great idea to give everyone powers.

Actually if they have double-vote then that would be a win tomorrow even with Math dead I think? 5 alive, 3 to lynch, they would technically have 3 votes. I guess it'd turn into fastest finger on the following days, which would be pretty funny tbh

[Sando]

No it was the 3 thing that had me confused

You was right.

[Sando]

Actually if they have double-vote then that would be a win tomorrow even with Math dead I think? 5 alive, 3 to lynch, they would technically have 3 votes. I guess it'd turn into fastest finger on the following days, which would be pretty funny tbh

Yep, they could get a third vote.

Let's get Drixx to give no-one powers and work to elect Kokichi leader?

5 on Kokichi, Kokichi+Drixx+1 on a backup.

Backup goes on most universally TRd.

[Sando]

2 on backup following mathb red flip pls

Do you mean 2 voters or two backups?

[Sando]

2 voters in case we fuck up and make one of them a scumfuck y'feel

I've listed 3 including the petrified people, is that a problem? Can they not leader vote? Pretty sure they can.

We could move Drixx onto Kokichi and move another alive person onto the backup in case they're not paying attention?

[Sando]

Math being elected leader still bugs me though.

True dat.

Did you get powers last night?

[Sando]

If the petrified can leader vote:

Lynch MathBlade

Creature votes Gamma
Gamma Emerald votes Nos
Nosferatu votes Sando
Sando votes the worst
the worst votes me

Then Drixx or Kokichi leader vote one of them based on some criteria we propose?

I think single vote with math confirmed scum leaves us open to manipulation. I'd guess scum can only influence voting by 1-2, rather than just assigning it, but whether it has to follow their own vote?

[Sando]

Math I'm putting QL plan together now since you're going to bomb someone and we should force the issue, save me the trouble?

[Sando]

Math I'm putting QL plan together now since you're going to bomb someone and we should force the issue, save me the trouble?

What does QL stand for?

Quality

Quick Lynch

[Sando]

Leader votes:
Kokichi - Drixx/Sando/Nos/the worst/Gamma
Sando - Kokichi/Creature

Drixx power submissions - Nobody

Notes:
Don't vote tomorrow and watch out for Mind Control, consider Mind Control when you're looking at lynches/mylo/lylo etc.
Scum probably has powers from N2, N4 and N6 (if there's something about odds and evens I'm flipping the table)

[Sando]

Mine are derpy enough.

I'm off to bed, I'll vote Math in the morning, if he was going to submit the bomb he's done that already.

Give Drixx a bit to unsubmit any hero team he might have inadvertently done.

[Sando]

Oh I did submit if I had one. Just need the mod online if I did.

I just figured I would try to make the game more fun for everyone.

Not getting to lynch you is drastically less fun though

4-1 Mylo though.

Only reason to no-lynch is if we wanna mess around with something like town!confing someone. We could declare Creature town, have Drixx submit only Creature, and he picks up something like BP (or freezing if that stops NKs, someone check that). Scum can either kill a mislynch target or go kill-less.

[Sando]

Eh, probs wouldn't work, scum almost definitely have SS from N4.

[Sando]

Oh wait the Echo came during N4 I believe, so if we want we can gamble on town-confirming someone using something freezing/BP etc.

[Sando]

Most likely power setup on last scum:
Power-negation N2
Echo N4
Mind Control N6

Double Petrification almost guarantees Echo I think, and SS hasn't appeared N2 or N6.

[Sando]

Oh if we decide to lynch today post-bomb, then Drixx should submit a -1 list.

Give Drixx second bite, submit the 2 people he thinks aren't scum and aren't lynched.

If you lynch scum doesn't matter, win.

If you mislynch, may as well play a betting game with phasing/BP/Freezing and give yourself another chance.

[Sando]

Yeah Freezing stops the kill, but take into account negate.

I think if both people freeze then that

should

work.

So in a 4-1, you lynch one, give Drixx chance to submit a 2 person list that you decide. Both people target that person with freezing.

If they both survive into the next day they have to instantly vote that person, since the person has Mind Control most likely. Yeah it's not pretty but gives you a shot at 2 lynches instead of 1.

Get the first lynch right basically.

[Sando]

Actually goodnight now, cheers for being a good sounding board Math

[Sando]

nup we're in 4p or 3p tomorrow

So this is bullshit from duckling. I'd established that we were in Mylo and that 2 scum were alive, and duckling said he was well aware of that. Math blowing someone up didn't change it. Can't see why a duckling would bullshit on this, it's 3 to lynch, he knows I'm not going to do it.

We technically have 3 conf!towns waiting on healing becoming availabl

I am not absolutely sold on this

In case you're not sold on the conf!town rather than just being right about the numbers of people:

Mod confirmed to me when I asked about Mylo yesterday that Mylo is when scum are 2 less than town, Lylo is when scum are 1 less than town.

We currently have 6 unpetrified people who are "in play", 2 scum alive, and we're mod-confirmed being in Mylo.

Ergo, of the 6 unpetrified it's 2v4.

Ergo, the petrified people are conf!town.

No it was the 3 thing that had me confused

[Sando]

Most likely power setup on last scum:
Power-negation N2
Echo N4
Mind Control N6

Double Petrification almost guarantees Echo I think, and SS hasn't appeared N2 or N6.

This is the most likely setup on the last scum. My gut says it isn't Creature. I think Gamma is the last scum, but duckling insists on being as scummy as he can.

Poke holes in this plan please:
1) Get Drixx to submit Sando+Creature as the hero team.
2) Lynch Gamma, assuming he's town (since scum wins us the game instantly)
3) Sando+Creature both grab freezing and freeze duckling
4) Theoretically duckling can't do anything overnight and we lynch him tomorrow.

Scum got powers N2, N4, and N6, unless there's another ability we don't know about. Math petrified last night and 2nd scum either petrified or echo'd that petrify. Petrify wasn't available any of those nights, so we can assume the last scum echo'd. That was only available in those nights on N4. Superstrength would also win the game for the scum overnight but it was also only available on N4.

So it's a tenuous theory, but it should hold.

Doesn't have to be Sando+Creature as the townblock, but basically if we get that townblock right I

think

we've got this.

[Sando]

sando please explain why you openly scumsided d6 for me?

Dude you've gone out of your way to not actually contribute here. And you literally just tried to convince us that we're not in Mylo and can safely mislynch...

You claimed not to understand the mechanics yesterday, yet today you're all over why the petrified people are conf!town, until Math blows up and suddenly you've forgotten that it's Mylo...

[Sando]

So this is bullshit from duckling. I'd established that we were in Mylo and that 2 scum were alive, and duckling said he was well aware of that. Math blowing someone up didn't change it. Can't see why a duckling would bullshit on this, it's 3 to lynch, he knows I'm not going to do it.

[Sando]

all signs actually point to scum!Sando which I hate so much and it makes me wonder if I'm wrong

Nice shade while avoiding the plan there duckling

[Sando]

and you're still refusing to explain why you scumsided this into 6p Mylo while helping to lynch Tora who was extremely obviously town (yet you arrogantly deathtunneled, preferring obvscum Math over Tora)

Math had leader protection...

Like...what the actual fuck duckling, at least make sense?

[Sando]

so you sided with him and lynched the person trying to find his buddy..... :thnikong:

He wanted Gamma dead...

Like...I spent all of yesterday arguing for the Tora lynch over the Gamma lynch WITH HIM.

Yeah you're scum, and this little tete-a-tete was just bad. I guess my plan was spot on?

[Sando]

@CREATURE:

I'm happy to townlock you, see plan:

1) Get Drixx to submit Sando+Creature as the hero team.
2) Lynch Gamma, assuming he's town (since scum wins us the game instantly)
3) Sando+Creature both grab freezing and freeze duckling
4) Theoretically duckling can't do anything overnight and we lynch him tomorrow.

Scum got powers N2, N4, and N6, unless there's another ability we don't know about. Math petrified last night and 2nd scum either petrified or echo'd that petrify. Petrify wasn't available any of those nights, so we can assume the last scum echo'd. That was only available in those nights on N4. Superstrength would also win the game for the scum overnight but it was also only available on N4.

[Sando]

I can understand the worst thinking we could mislynch. Drixx and Kokichi's names being listed on the votecount confuses me out.

It's not out of the realms, and to be fair I hadn't considered the bomb until Math posted so I was assuming a tomorrow for a while too.

But Ducklings was posted after the Math bomb
Duckling had stated that he was well aware it was Mylo before the bomb
The Mod said it was Mylo in the bomb post

[Sando]

also I'm kinda shook my reads entering today were so so wrong
apologies if this is the first time I've really grossly misread you Creature

I mean you agreed with Titus and nakedly sheeped her onto my wagon D2...

But NOW you're shook?

[Sando]

Yeh, I gotta check things better.

Check "da plan".

[Sando]

VOTE: Sando

I think it's obvious how he's going around pocketing both of you.

This is fairly amusing.

So we're in Mylo, you vote to lynch me, knowing a mislynch loses it for town instantly.

But me, who is offering up a plan to Creature to give him 2 lynches instead of 1, is the person who is "pocketing" and following a scum agenda?

[Sando]

like if you are deadset convinced and genuinely tunnelled that I'm the last scum why are you pulling some fps junk to pocket creature?

Because why not? It's literally just lynching+.

No-plan - lynch today, win or lose based on that lynch
Sando-plan - lynch today, same chance of winning today, maybe we get another shot tomorrow.

It's literally no cost with potentially double the upside.

[Sando]

how do we do the sando plan including lynching scum today tho bc you're not town

You gotta at least try and make an effort here duckling, you're in the home stretch!

Doesn't have to be Sando+Creature as the townblock, but basically if we get that townblock right I think we've got this.

[Sando]

oh duh the moment Sando is scum he just night kills
lmfao

this plan is stupid

The moment we go into night scum kill and win the game...that's the fucking definition of Mylo...

It doesn't matter WHO is scum, if we mislynch today without my plan, we lose.

If we mislynch today with my plan...we might still win.

You're either scum or an idiot...you're not an idiot.

[Sando]

sure that's fine but there's literally no world where you can be in the town block. would super strength just bypass anyway?

I've stated why it's unlikely last scum has superstrength. You're literally trying to take a lynch away from town, you're acting about as scummy as possible here.

Creature is signing up to the townblock and who goes into it, your input has nothing to do with this.

Also:

Uhhhhhhh I think Sando is actually town bee tee dubz

If anyone still thinks I'm scum after going hard at Titus and calling out the Math+Titus precog bullshit days ago...

right
just reiterating mid table-flip

You're just trying to muddy the water in Mylo. Respect, but you're scum.

[Sando]

interesting. so scumfuck X had to pick echo n4. they can't have super strength I guess?

Rofl, literally in the plan you called "Stupid" I pointed out why scum have echo not SS:

Poke holes in this plan please:
1) Get Drixx to submit Sando+Creature as the hero team.
2) Lynch Gamma, assuming he's town (since scum wins us the game instantly)
3) Sando+Creature both grab freezing and freeze duckling
4) Theoretically duckling can't do anything overnight and we lynch him tomorrow.

Scum got powers N2, N4, and N6, unless there's another ability we don't know about. Math petrified last night and 2nd scum either petrified or echo'd that petrify.

Petrify wasn't available any of those nights, so we can assume the last scum echo'd. That was only available in those nights on N4. Superstrength would also win the game for the scum overnight but it was also only available on N4.

[Sando]

I kinda still keep wanting to townread you but your play the last couple of days has been unforgivably sketchy ugghhh

if you're actually town here just fyi we're gonna have words post-game

Oh trust me, if you're scum, and especially if I'm right about what happened D2...you're damn right we're having words.

[Sando]

okay, am back

Sup

[Sando]

Tora should not bomb Nancy, it's a waste, bomb someone else and the townflip confscums Nancy.

???

It was while I thought killing Aus would stop her leader vote and before Gamma claimed the Nero vote.

At the time we thought it was Math-scum with Nancy/Tora as scum. Tora obviously wouldn't bomb his buddy Nancy if they were both scum, and Tora being dead would 100% confirm Nancy scum anyway. So why waste the bomb? Get Tora to bomb elsewhere.

[Sando]

Tora should not bomb Nancy, it's a waste, bomb someone else and the townflip confscums Nancy.

???

It was while I thought killing Aus would stop her leader vote and before Gamma claimed the Nero vote.

At the time we thought it was Math-scum with Nancy/Tora as scum. Tora obviously wouldn't bomb his buddy Nancy if they were both scum, and Tora being dead would 100% confirm Nancy scum anyway. So why waste the bomb? Get Tora to bomb elsewhere.

Here's me and you actually talking about pestering the mod about petrification/death and leader-voting.

Ok I just annoyed the crap out of the mod

I did it first, but whatever.

[Sando]

We're not in Mylo, it's town+1, math isn't today's lynch.

So the math for no-lynch assuming Tor blows up Math succesfully, we go into tonight with 8(+1)/3.

Kill - 7(+1)/3
Bomb - 6(+1)/2
Petrify - 5(+2)/2
Echo Petrify - 4 (+3)/2

Lynch scum tomorrow:
4 (+3)/1
Kill - 3 (+3) / 1
Petrify - 2 (+3) / 1

This makes me feel better about Sando for some reason

FYI mod actually PMd me after I posted this letting me know that Mylo is scum+2, not 1.

[Sando]

Sando what do you reckon are the odds we're TvT here?

50%

But more seriously, I'm locktowning creature.

Post Math I was ready to see the light and go for Gamma, but you're literally arguing against a plan that has ZERO cost to town and potentially doubles odds of winning.

[Sando]

also: how the fuck did math become leader

Thought you didn't care about mechanics?

[Sando]

Ducky, quit yer bullshitting:

{Math, Tora} almost certainly contains the last scum if Gamma flips red right Sando?

Wanna explain how Gamma/Math/Nancy got Math leader over 2 votes on Nero for me there?

you know for a fact I have zero interest in speccing on that

[Sando]

can you explain it knowing Tora is town or
like jn at work and have little effort rediving

every time you throw shade at me for trying to gamesolve in MyLo just makes me more confident you're scum

So when I was trying to explain it yesterday I was scum, not explaining it today (I have) is scummy? Righto.

Tora and Sakura are townconf and have specifically said they voted for Nero.
Math cannot get more than 2 votes from scum via explained methods

The only way Math got it via conventional methods is if 2 of Aus+Tora+Sakura fucked up. Aus sure might have forgotten, but Tora/Sakura would have to fuck up.

Even then, that requires Gamma to be scum as well.

Ergo, pretty damn safe bet Math got leader through a scum ability.

[Sando]

based on Drixx's reads who would he be most likely to send/not send on a team?

Whoever we tell him to...

I doubt scum expected a plan like mine (ya know, the one you labelled stupid), which if we don't adopt means that tonight isn't happening, one way or the other. Scum very likely did not expect to have to go through tonight, or if they did they have something like Duplication or Mind Control to instantly win tomorrow.

[Sando]

there's a lot of variables and I'm still deciding whether I like your plan at all. but like at the core of it it requires you and Creature to both be town and I don't trust you're town soooo.......

You sound like Quick

[Sando]

fmpov if gamma greens we lose the game. surely you realise why I'm hesitant as fuck here.

Hey thanks for the definition of mylo!

[Sando]

like if you are deadset convinced and genuinely tunnelled that I'm the last scum why are you pulling some fps junk to pocket creature?

Because why not? It's literally just lynching+.

No-plan - lynch today, win or lose based on that lynch
Sando-plan - lynch today, same chance of winning today, maybe we get another shot tomorrow.

It's literally no cost with potentially double the upside.

Your plan only work fypov

It works for any 2 townclear.

[Sando]

is there any way scum can beat a 3p circular freeze?

Dunno, ask the mod...

[Sando]

reads like a bus from Sando onto Titus. reads like distancing from Titus onto Sando.

I lol'd

Uhhhhhhh I think Sando is actually town bee tee dubz

If anyone still thinks I'm scum after going hard at Titus and calling out the Math+Titus precog bullshit days ago...

right
just reiterating mid table-flip

This is why Nos died:

im sorry since when was sando not locktown

the fuck universe am i in?

[Sando]

town!Nos never dies over town!you there tbh

Literally did tho

[Sando]

if you flip green I think Gamma and Creature and I should crossroleblock and they should powerlynch me tomorrow. what do you think of that?

So you checked with the mod that 3 person cross-block works?

[Sando]

@Creature--what do you think here?

Outside of Titus, Sando looks bad.

though, Titus bussing Sando with VCA is like huh?

Can you seriously look at days 2 and 3 and tell me how I'm with Titus?

[Sando]

the pm is in

And the answer is?

[Sando]

The worst is 100% scum here, you can confirm for yourself, ask the mod about freezing yourself and see the answer you get back.

[Sando]

uh sorry freezing yourself?

Ask the mod "what happens with freezing if x" and see what happens.

[Sando]

what happens with freezing if x?
I'm really not following

One sec, waiting on mod.

I mean the plan still fails horribly, but lets see if the mod will confscum you for me

[Sando]

Spoiler: Day 1 Lynch

123456789

(LYNCH):

zMuffinMan, Sakura Hana

, Human Sequencer,

Titus

,

Katsuki, Nosferatu

, the worst,

Shiro, Kokichi Oma, hebichan

,

Nancy Drew 39

, Sando

Titus (4): 123456789, Gamma Emerald, Frozen Angel, Ankamius

Ankamius (1): randomidget
Shiro (1): Toranaga
zMuffinMan (1): BBmolla

Spoiler: Day 2 Lynch

Myloninja13

(LYNCH):

zMuffinMan, Sakura Hana

, the worst,

hebichan, Kokichi Oma, Shiro, Toranaga

,

Nancy Drew 39

,

Katsuki

,

MathBlade

, Gamma Emerald

Sando (5): Nosferatu, Frozen Angel, Titus, Ankamius, Creature

zMuffinMan (2): BBmolla, Drixx

Drixx (1): Sando

Spoiler: Day 3 Lynch

Titus

(LYNCH):

Katsuki

,

MathBlade

, Sando, Gamma Emerald,

Sakura Hana

,

Nancy Drew 39

,

stungun0404, Nosferatu, Frozen Angel

,

Titus

Creature (4): zMuffinMan, the worst, Toogeloo, Toranaga

Katsuki (3): Shiro, hebichan, Kokichi Oma

Spoiler: Day 4 Lynch

Toogeloo

(LYNCH): the worst,

Frozen Angel, Theta Alpine, stungun0404, hebichan

,

MathBlade

,

Toranaga, Nosferatu

,

Nancy Drew 39

the worst (2): Sando, Creature

Gamma Emerald (1): Nero Cain
Stungun0404 (1): Kokichi Oma

Spoiler: Day 5 Lynch

hebichan

(LYNCH):

Ausuka, Sakura Hana

, Creature,

Nosferatu

,

MathBlade

,

Theta Alpine

,

Nancy Drew 39

,

Toranaga

Creature (2): hebichan, the worst

Gamma Emerald (1): Nero Cain
the worst (1): Sando
Toranaga (1): Kokichi Oma

Spoiler: Day 6 Lynch

Toranaga

(LYNCH):

Nero Cain

,

MathBlade

, Sando,

Nosferatu

, the worst, Toranaga

Ok so:
the worst - Lynched scum D1, lynched town D2, did not scum lynch D3, lynched town D4, did not town lynch D5, lynched town D6
Sando - Lynched scum D1, did not lynch town D2, lynched scum D3, did not lynch town D4, did not lynch town D5, lynched town D6
Creature - Lynched scum D1 (pre replace), did not lynch town D2, did not lynch scum D3, did not lynch town D4, lynched town D5, did not lynch town D6
Gamma - Did not lynch scum D1, lynched town D2, lynched scum D3, did not lynch town D4, did not lynch town D5, did not lynch town D6

Lynches	Scum(2)	Town(4)
the worst	1	3
Sando	2	1
Creature	1	1
Gamma	1	1

Of note:
Titus was the counter-lynch to 129 on D1
Sando was the counter-lynch to Mylo on D2 (led by FA, failed primarily due to time)
Sando was the counter-lynch to Titus on D3 (led by Titus, the worst put Sando to L-3 nakedly)
The worst has literally only naked voted, he's NEVER given coherent reasoning for his votes before today. Even yesterday his defence of Tora wasn't coherent, just flat out statement of town-Tora and refusal to consider mechanics.
The worst says Sando is town D2 and says Titus is town in a roundabout way (says Sando is TvTing, Sando was antagonising Titus)
The worst completely 180s and naked votes Sando D3 to put him to L-3 (Titus is the CW)
The worst suggests the bomb-everything plan, which he works up with Math - this was D4, when Mathblade was leader...
Creature was early on the 129 wagon (this was before Creature replaced in)
Creature very briefly was on Sando before getting onto the Mylo wagon, before coming back to Sando, before trying to hammer Mylo
Creature basically lurked all D3, don't think he ever voted
Creature basically flops around D4 between Hebichan and the worst, until finally getting the hebichan lynch on D5
Gamma basically naked voted Titus, although followed with a sheep of Sando
Both Gamma and the worst claimed to not vote for leader N1, which was when Titus won the leader vote
Gamma basically tunnelled Titus D2, spent time wanting Sando lynched, and fell onto Mylo once time was up
Gamma put the Sando wagon to L-2 on D3
Gamma went from tunnelling Titus D2 to scumreading Sando over Titus (and them never being partners) D3, and actively defended Titus in the Sando v Titus dustup 6205 and 6212 before begrudgingly voting Titus
Gamma pushed/voted Toog most of D4 but unvoted to sort things out

Spoiler: Just some fun the worst progression on Creature

V

o

t

e

:

C

r

e

a

t

u

r

e

Hi
Forgot to vote

VOTE: Creature

kinda vibing FA/Theta never scum with Titus here

I think Titus should also spew Sando town?? but that feels kinda funny

also if we're not lynching Toog we should just get Creature over with

coooooolll

VOTE: Creature

Drixx/Sando imo 4 votes each see what happens

also Creature gotta die at some point

is Math not howling right now? I am so confused what you're all seeing

Creature is also probscum and desperately needs to eat rope before endgame

also 12317 showed me literally nothing ftr
scumfuck x and mathblade could have easily done the double stoner thing with either 2x petrification 2x power echo or one of each which they both could have conceivably had
the 2x pet thing kinda loosely waves at being an attempted frame (an actual attempted frame >:/) on nero who is the only unflipped player on any team

VOTE: Creature better votepark

tbh not sure if Creature is fitting the scum narrative anymore. he hasn't been as engaged as usual but I don't really see how anything he's done benefits a scum agenda :s

[Sando]

12454 is a good case for scum!you

I have been pro wagon and pro lynch and have continuously offered my thoughts on reading players when I had them

you've been hyperfocused on mechanics and avoided town mislynches while being set up as a deepwolf

Just you wait

[Sando]

Ok so why TW is scum:

Spoiler: Progression on Sando

hmm of those who've really struck me
Sando obvtown
you cerb fine

I'm having a hard time sorting Hebichan rn and I think I want some shiny shiny flips.

I still like Sando for town and feel like all the crap hurricanes he's leaped into just feel like t/t gameplay related shenanigans. either he's town or he's scum who's intentionally seeking out gameplay related fights to get into with people to make it look like he keeps getting involved in t/t shitfights anddddd out of the two I feel like its 5he Yorker

VOTE: Sando

my brain feels like its full of nails



pedit: too much information

Yes, this is literally the next post referencing me

Duckling is scum here btw, and that vote was disgustingly obvious there buddy

why is worst's vote scummy but not mine?

Iso both of you, ctrl-F "Sando" and it's really, really fucking obvious

oh are my reads not allowed to change

fuck my bad, I might be on the wrong forum

Doesn't actually say WHY or WHEN they changed

maybe? idrc to look

why's that?

Lol, claiming you're lynchbait with 0 votes ever is pretty much the definition of troll

Also I've called 1 of the 7 votes on me opportunistically scum, funnily enough it's the person I know best on the player base.

ya but I think you've seen and heard enough about me that you shouldn't.....be jumping to the assumption that i'm scum here? like i can't find any way to parse why you have arrived at the conclusion that you believe i'm aligned with the mafia lmao

Still hasn't explained his changed read to Sando by this point

I feel bad bc like I feel like Sando's actual reads on other players should be more advanced by now considering he seems like he's really really into this game but by the same token I don't really know where else to vote so I'm kinda still voting Sando because my head is stuck in a plastic bag.

Literally the first hint of a case against me, this is my post articulating case against him btw:

VOTE: the worst

I can't see any lynch but me going through unless something comes out of left field, so I'll make this super easy for town to see tomorrow.

Duckling doesn't coast through games like he has and not engage with people
The idea that because other people have voted me he shouldn't have to post reasoning is pretty lol
Duckling has played with me quite a bit on open-queues, he doesn't naked vote me out of no-where and play dumb like this

The true paranoid part of me also notes that the D2 push on me was while I happened to be overseas and couldn't read/respond to anything. Only one person on site knew that definitively, duckling.

I really like sando's vote that is on the worst. the worst was scetchy as fuck back then.

creepy post

Suddenly changes on me, yep, still no reasoning:

Sando go have a squizz at open 733 if you're bored (just finished, I was scum and it was a short game).... I actually think you're wrong!town here but your idea of how I approach a game as scum is off point

zMuff am I completely wrong on FA and Titus here?

my only interactions with both of them felt isolating and like they were utterly self serving and they both keep posting tonnes of crap I can't parse. I'm at a point where I actually can't decide if they're both scum shitting up the thread or if their playstyles are just rubbing me the wrong way

Sando I still feel is town who is just carried away and playing worse than he usually does but the quantity>quality is real af

FINALLY GET AN ANSWER:

Sando I still feel is town who is just carried away and playing worse than he usually does but the quantity>quality is real af

You've still never actually posted a reason for your vote on me. You got called out for it and now you've backed off and want people to forget it.

pedit: If I'm right about my paranoia D2 so help me fucking god dude...

You didn't feel lucid enough. Everything I read from you was going on about mechanics and crap and I know that's a strength of yours but it is never alignment indicative. I poked the bear and hey guess what you're goodposting so I'm happy.

Who are your strongest scumreads?

What are your reads on sando and titus

Sandi is town.

Claims that he naked lolvoted me.

uhh I felt like every time I saw SANDO'S posts they were just an endless wall of mechanics. not knowing a lot about his scumgame I figured he was just avoiding posting AI stuff because he was scum so I naked lolvoted him to L-2 and he entered the deathtunnel. he did case me before that but his case is heavily fuelled by the fact he's consistently awful at reading me and has no idea how I approach the game as scum

part of why I'm ok with my lunch is because it'll force Sando to reengage since I'm p sure he's town and he's actually invested in this game

Sando is mechanically focused as town:

uhh I felt like every time I saw SANDO'S posts they were just an endless wall of mechanics.

This is what I felt earlier about him (somewhere near end of D2).

turns out this is probably a towntell for Sando. not something I'm keen to put a lot of stock in given how easy it is to replicate, but he is indeed more likely to hyperfocus on mechanics as town

scum!Sando would involve such a tremendous and passionate crossbus between Titus and Sando that I really doubt it's within either of their scumranges

@the worst, if there is anyone in our current scum pool outside yourself that you would bet the game on being town, who would that be, if anyone? and why?

Doubt I'd bet the game on anything rn. Sando is probably town tho ig. Who else is in the pool?

Yeah I jumped on Sando d2 for it to get readable content and he townspewed reasonably hard. Trodden ground my dude.

Uhhhhhhh I think Sando is actually town bee tee dubz

If anyone still thinks I'm scum after going hard at Titus and calling out the Math+Titus precog bullshit days ago...

right
just reiterating mid table-flip

ALL of this is pre D7. So basically Town> Lolnaked vote > Town.

Then Day 7, after I post a plan to get two lynches instead of 1.

sando please explain why you openly scumsided d6 for me?

all signs actually point to scum!Sando which I hate so much and it makes me wonder if I'm wrong

Spoiler: Terrible Bomb Plan with Mathscum

Self Detonation (available during the day)

we should use this to blast the lynchpool

Note at this point that Mathblade, now conf!scum, is leader at this point.

I'm talking the selected people would detonate within the first like 7 days of the phase or be lynched.

Each Day Phase after lasts approximately 7 real life days.

You you might want to flesh that one out a bit more...cause that's a terrible idea.

Within 72 hours then, basically first half of the phase

It's not a great plan, but he's getting there

... but what if nancydrew has been deepwolfing us all along? does that factor in?

too much of a risk to have locktown slots suicide bomb

Nancy drew in that case loses.

Me FA Sakura Drixx stomp her butt.

Q F T

this is an exercise, first and foremost, in force advancing the shit out of the gamestate (which has basically been a stagnant lynchpool + primarily-mechanical circlejerk for agessssssssssss) and secondly, in testing the integrity of the lynchpool

it literally just tells us how many deepwolves we have and nukes the shit out of the other scum.

i keep getting prouder and prouder of this!!

Duckling agreeing with scumMath helping out scumNancy deepwolfing...

O btw we should not ever say who's gonna get a bomb it's prolly better to say like for example

one of:
{tw, mith}
{zoraster, ut}

etc. etc.

sorry still strung out on how fucking good this idea is


pedit: I heartily condone Sakura>FA fwiw

We need to say who gets a bomb and who explodes on who for two reasons
1) If everyone explodes on the same person that is a lot of needless death to kill one person
2) For accountability reasons if someone is supposed to go off on a player and “hero” suicides or takes out a member of the town block we can then trace it back. I have no idea how they are going to flip if it’s “X suicides and kills Y” or just “Y dies overnight”

I agree and got distracted half way thru that sorry

say whichever of tw/mith gets a bomb must asplode the other
whichever of zor/ut gets a bomb must asplode the other before the night phase


then leader fullclaims the list of actual recipients at start of the next day

Spoiler: TWs current terrible plan

lynch Sando today (likely flips red but this is the correct play regardless of his flip and I'll fight anyone who disagrees)

GEm/Creature/tw circular roleblock tonight

if the game is still going we fight to the death tomorrow

gud plan simples

This plan fails on so many levels:
1) 3 way freezing probably doesn't work
2) Town freezing Town who freezes scum who doesn't freeze fails because the first town stops the second town from freezing scum
3) Scum take super-speed, negate their freezer, MindControl/DoubleVote for the win

[Sando]

you've been hyperfocused on mechanics and avoided town mislynches while being set up as a deepwolf

Literally called Titus D1, D2 and then lynched her D3 using these so called "mechanical" posts while you naked lolvoted me to L-2

[Sando]

you've been hyperfocused on mechanics and avoided town mislynches while being set up as a deepwolf

Literally called Titus D1, D2 and then lynched her D3 using these so called "mechanical" posts while you naked lolvoted me to L-2

yes you bussed Titus we've established that

scum!Sando would involve such a tremendous and passionate crossbus between Titus and Sando that I really doubt it's within either of their scumranges

There's a

tweet

post for everything!

[Sando]

we can use your plan if you can lay down a reason why a 3 way roleblock doesn't work. but that plan never involves you. you are today's lynch, even if you are somehow town you've shown yourself to be blatantly incapable to push a town agenda the last two day phases.

I did, it's in my case on you.

[Sando]

we can use your plan if you can lay down a reason why a 3 way roleblock doesn't work. but that plan never involves you. you are today's lynch, even if you are somehow town you've shown yourself to be blatantly incapable to push a town agenda the last two day phases.

I did, it's in my case on you.

Your roleblock plan literally guarantees a scumwin btw, and you say I'm openwolfing?

Like...dude...if you somehow are town here...holy shit.

[Sando]

Aaaaaanyway, I'm done for a while, this back and forth is boring. Case and recap is there, have fun.

[Sando]

@Drixx

Absolutely do NOT give (all) 3 people powers, scum probably have Negate+MindControl from nights 2 and 6. They'll negate their freezer and kill, and probably submit MC as well in case there's some fuckery going on with "did they pick BP?!" for the win.

You have to pick 2 people and give them powers. One of them will be Creature, hopefully Creature can produce a TR he trusts enough to communicate to you. If not, the person you give it to (your best TR out of the alive non-Creature list) should target the person other than Creature. If I'm the lynch Creature will hopefully figure out overnight that my plan is the only option that gives town any chance and pick one of the other two to freeze. If they double up, GG win, if not, eh I tried.

[Sando]

VOTE: the worst

[Sando]

what happens with freezing if x?
I'm really not following

One sec, waiting on mod.

I mean the plan still fails horribly, but lets see if the mod will confscum you for me

Twas wrong, mod didn't confscum ya...yet.

[Sando]

Eh, I'm done, the content is there, if Gamma and Creature aren't going to engage it's game over anyway and I'm wasting my time.

[Sando]

We're still doing the crossroleblocking, right?

Creature
Gamma Emerald
Sando
the worst
Creature

Just roleblock the person below you (removing whoever is lynched)

Assume you lynch Gamma and we're doing freezing:

Sando -> The Worst - > Creature -> Sando

What happens if I'm scum with negate (very likely from N2) and target you, Creature?

[Sando]

Is there any difference between Power Negate and Freezing? Both seem to work like roleblockers.

Dunno, I asked mod and won't give answers to specific questions on the powers, since it's not their first reveal.

[Sando]

Is there any difference between Power Negate and Freezing? Both seem to work like roleblockers.

For the record, a role-block chain would work if actually submitted. It's the interaction between negate and freeze that I dunno.

Hence my plan, which basically results in the same thing, 2 lynches, it's just you have to decide them both today.

[Sando]

Yeah, can't count on crossroleblocking.

I'm not 100% sure but yeah I think this is right.

Hence Creature picks person B to be lynched today and C to be lynched tomorrow. Person A is considered town by Creature.

Drixx submits Creature and Person A to the hero pool.

Both Creature and Person A freeze Person C.

I can't see a way for Person C to get around that without SuperStrength, which we don't

think

they have. That "think" is why we should still try our hardest to have person B be scum.

[Sando]

Hence my plan, which basically results in the same thing, 2 lynches, it's just you have to decide them both today.

or I can decide one and Drixx decides the other if we settle up I'm town.

You mean lynch Sando today.

Drixx gives Creature + Person A a power

Person A knows who to freeze, but Creature doesn't, how do you target the right person?

[Sando]

Oh right, forgot about that.

So as far as I've been able to tell, the best way to get another lynch tomorrow is to decide it today. It's the same number of lynches, it's just decided now

How we convince the deader to go along with the plan I dunno, given we need their vote today.

Queue one of the others "lol guess it's you then Sando".

[Sando]

I can't see a world where town!Sando deathtunnels me this aggressively without even taking a moment to consider that his d2 read was incorrect 5 fucking phases later.

I didn't vote you until D3 you nutbag...

And I was so deathtunnelled I got Titus lynched D3...

[Sando]

God I hate this game.

Duckling, you around?

[Sando]

I guess it's just Gamma and I'm getting distracted by having to decide who is getting freezing with me tonight incase Gamma flips town

I'm obviously currently pretty tunnelled on Duckling, and was trying to reach across the aisle with duckling about Gamma, but yeah Gamma has done literally nothing to advance us post-Math bomb.

His last post just blows my mind that you'd look at like 5 pages of me and duckling yelling at each other and think it's scummy that I "wouldn't try and counter".

I'm comfortable with Gamma + Sando/Duckling with the choice on you. I give it sub 5% that it's you. I'm leaning duckling still, but the last little bit has taken that from a strong lean to like 50% duckling 45% gamma.

[Sando]

I guess it's just Gamma and I'm getting distracted by having to decide who is getting freezing with me tonight incase Gamma flips town

Also yeah, sucks to be you (unless that 5%, in which case GG)

[Sando]

I'm obviously currently pretty tunnelled on Duckling, and was trying to reach across the aisle with duckling about Gamma, but yeah Gamma has done literally nothing to advance us post-Math bomb.

His last post just blows my mind that you'd look at like 5 pages of me and duckling yelling at each other and think it's scummy that I "wouldn't try and counter".

Duckling, dis.

[Sando]

circular roleblock works--if players are roleblocked and also submit the night kill, the night kill would fail. (I posed it as the circular roleblock conundrum but obviously the same applies if both living town players submit a roleblock).

for the record 3 way roleblock will probably work, allowing for the fact we can't ask questions about that ability that stops abilities from working

Circular roleblock works in the sense that 3x roleblockers will all end up roleblocked if they all submit that - I was wrong about that.

The issue is which roleblock goes off first between negate and freeze? If negate beats freeze, then circular roleblock is beatable by scum.

If negate doesn't beat freeze, then it works and you get an extra lynch tomorrow.

If you 2x freeze, you also get an extra lynch tomorrow.

Both ways you get an extra lynch tomorrow, 2x freeze just means you have to choose that lynch today, openly. The only benefit from circ-RB is that you can choose the lynch tomorrow, but the risk is it's probably beatable by scum.

[Sando]

Going by most resolution guidelines all possible like roles should try to resolve so.... again we can't ask Brian what his intention is but in like 70%+ of setups they cancel each other out.

I intentionally worded my question openly to feed into broader spec btw

Well role-block is specifically an open question per game as to whether multiple roleblocks on each other resolve, so there's lots of weirdness around roleblock resolving any time there's multiple, let alone when there's 2 different types of RBers. But yeah, I'll give you 70%, why take that 30% risk for the sake of not deciding tomorrow's lynch now?

[Sando]

33.3% chance allowing for creature being town and making the correct decision, that is. if he's town he's down to a 50% chance which is better but uh

yeah

This makes no sense duckling. Let's say we lynch Gamma today and he somehow flips town and assume we live to tomorrow.

Under my plan Creature nominates you or me to die tomorrow.
Under your plan me and you instantly vote each other tomorrow and Creature decides between me and you.

Either way, Creature is picking between me and you right now for the second lynch.

[Sando]

33.3% chance allowing for creature being town and making the correct decision, that is. if he's town he's down to a 50% chance which is better but uh

yeah

This makes no sense duckling. Let's say we lynch Gamma today and he somehow flips town and assume we live to tomorrow.

Under my plan Creature nominates you or me to die tomorrow.
Under your plan me and you instantly vote each other tomorrow and Creature decides between me and you.

Either way, Creature is picking between me and you right now for the second lynch.

The only difference is the safety of getting to tomorrow, and my plan is objectively safer.

[Sando]

Did Gamma already get an opinion out of this Sando v the worst?

Not specifically, but basically he's been pretty clear that he thinks Sando = Scum.

[Sando]

Spoiler: All of Gamma post Bomb

So either someone I cleared based on being a counter to Titus is scum
or it's tw

and Math killed Nos over p obvtown Nero Cain with his splosion to avoid us fully resolving superhero teams and scumfuck X

Nero was already dead wtf

Your plan only work fypov

Because I was unsure about what it meant at that time, think back to The Thing Mafia and think, "Why might Gamma be concerned about having messed up an action?" As of now, I'm perfectly fine with my actions

gamma where are your reads at?

From what I'm seeing right now, pretty sure it's either you or Sando, kinda leaning Snado. But I ain't doing jack until I read some ISOs, because I kiiiinda think I can solve this? Last time I actually tried in My/LyLo with one scum remaining, I reached the correct conclusion, so I think I can solve this one.

I see your agenda against tw mister

Yeah, stances like that get dropped in lylo you wingnut

Eh, I'm done, the content is there, if Gamma and Creature aren't going to engage it's game over anyway and I'm wasting my time.

I don't know what to make of this response, gut feeling is it's scummy as town would try to counter

[Sando]

The "I aint doing jack until I Iso" from gamma was ~3-4 days ago btw.

[Sando]

yeah real talk, no one is ISOing anyone to actually read them here lol. if you're ISOing someone it's to drag up dumb shit you remember them saying.

I've ISO'd all 3 of you.

[Sando]

Kind of thought Titus didn't have a bussing meta

checking it now

she's pretty anti bus..did you see my post with her comments @sando? it wasn't really much of a bus and all happened after she was basically caught..

I'm checking D1 where she isn't antispew.

Hopefully she didn't just votepark Ircher.

Ircher is 129?

Basically voteparks there most of D1. Goes for me+Hebi with a side of Creature days 2/3 from what I can see.

[Sando]

Ircher is 129?

Yes

Titus calls out the FA voters from N0 and says likely scum in there, then voteparks 129 (who claimed to vote FA N0), this looks reasonably planned tbh and I doubt Titus felt any sense of pressure to say anything else about her buddies that is AI.

[Sando]

she's been bus happier than I've been lead to expect from her. even the numbers lynch d1.

129 D1 looks like a planned votepark to be safe, and on scum so that when she becomes leader N1 she's going into that with some cred.

[Sando]

As in I don't understand the plain English meaning of those words

I think scum helped FA to be leader.

UFO wants a specific name.
It's just too early for that.

Spoiler: list votes

TW: Mylo, Chickadee, sando(I think that's who he means by duckling)
Cerb: Drixx, Nancy, random
FA: SDPI(or 1-9), Cerb, Shiro, Toranaga
Kokichi: Gamma, hebichan,
Muffin: Human, Sakura
Katsuki: bbmolla
Gamma: brassherald
Sakura: kokichi
Titus: Nicorobin
ND39: TW
Drixx: Titus
Mylo: muffin

Voting zmuffin at peak (6) - BBmolla, Katsuki, Chickadee, Frozen Angel, Nancy Drew 39, brassherald

Voting z now - BBmolla, Katsuki, Frozen Angel, Nancy Drew 39
voting Numbers now - Z, Sakura, Human, Me

@Ank, I am looking for a give a fuck on how I look. Can't find it. Now if you'll excuse me I got work to do.

This is what I mean by actively sorting towards 129 from very early.

[Sando]

maybe her D2 matters

She was 0% chance of being lynched D2 as leader, for however that plays into analysis.

[Sando]

Oh for ISO:

Post 1779 is end of Day1
Post 3815 is end of Day2
Post 6992 is end of Day3

So you can quickly get context on peoples posts/days.

[Sando]

but most of the list had her down as caught scum as well

I got to L-2 on Day 3 though.

Either scumSando fucked up enough with my scumteam to get to that point over "caught scum", or scum achieved something Day 2 and ended up with a townie at L-2 on Day 3 against "caught scum".

Neither of those just "happens".

[Sando]

or it was a distancing effort from scum!Titus

there's just not enough voting to have a really good feeling for it man

That's a conclusion we can come to, sure. But we're not writing off D2 just because Titus was "caught scum" is my point.

[Sando]

Also Math starts the bussing of Titus D3 pretty strongly.

Looks like the plan was to have Titus get some cred from 129 on D1 into leadership, then Math to get some cred from Titus D3 into leadership. Titus failed, Math succeeded.

The issue I think we need to consider about the deepscum is they needed that persons powers, not just to give them cred. Do we think Titus goes hard for their empowered buddy (Sando) D3 after getting no cred for lynching 129?

As self-serving as the logic is, I don't see scum going for their empowered deepscum as the CW to Titus.

pedit: lol

[Sando]

honestly it's just not an associative I want in lylo lol. and if Sando were spewed town by Titus flip he should have died bit there's been mechanical reasons to hit other players.

Scum have literally only killed powered up people or leader candidates until Math killed Nos today.

The fact that everyone who is town alive is powerless should tell you all you need to know about why scum have left certain people alive, at least until Nos died.

[Sando]

that's my point..
there's no votes to analyse and at this point no more night kills to analyse

I felt your point was that if I was townspewed by Titus I should have died...thus I should be scumread.

[Sando]

I'm kinda just feeling like its probably just Gamma and we're overcomplicating everything.

Honestly going to be pretty pissed with MS in general if it's not Gamma.

[Sando]

circular roleblock, me => Sando => Creature => me

that's where I'm at. if this hits 3p I'm voteparking Sando until he dies

Even you said the only thing that makes circular roleblock better than my plan is if you DON'T plan to votepark and want to use tomorrow.

[Sando]

33.3% chance allowing for creature being town and making the correct decision, that is. if he's town he's down to a 50% chance which is better but uh

yeah

This makes no sense duckling. Let's say we lynch Gamma today and he somehow flips town and assume we live to tomorrow.

Under my plan Creature nominates you or me to die tomorrow.
Under your plan me and you instantly vote each other tomorrow and Creature decides between me and you.

Either way, Creature is picking between me and you right now for the second lynch.

He'd like to I'm sure (lol probs not, probs wants this over as much as I do), but he knows he can't:

Yeah, can't count on crossroleblocking.

[Sando]

VOTE: Gamma
circular roleblock, me => Sando => Creature => me

that's where I'm at. if this hits 3p I'm voteparking Sando until he dies

Ok if you're town, how can you not see that I'd view this as scummy if I'm town?

Your suggestion is:

"Lynch Gamma and if he's town then let's do this plan that lets a NegateScum possibly just flat out win the game"

I get it, people don't like mechanics (why the fuck did you, and by you I mean all watchers as well, join this game then?), but c'mon, how could I NOT see that as a scum-motivated suggestion? How should I look at this as anything other than a NegateScumDuckling trying to use that power to win overnight?

And yeah, I know you're just gonna fob it off, and that'll probably work cause it's MS, but then I've been told literally all game that my obsession with mechanics is stupid despite correctly calling scum with it multiple times. I don't care if you think I've been "too right" or whatever, but it's why this is my last Mafia game.

[Sando]

Sigh, righto dude, I honestly don't care anymore.

[Sando]

don't get too high on your horse if it'd gone MY way we would've lynched Gamma yesterday. you wolfsided when it counted.

If you're town, you realise how silly this looks once you find out I'm town and you nakedly followed "caught scum" Titus D3 onto me right?

[Sando]

Eh, I'm done, the content is there, if Gamma and Creature aren't going to engage it's game over anyway and I'm wasting my time.

[Sando]

Creature can post who of Sando/Duckling he wants to get powers tonight and which he wants to get lynched tomorrow, we give Drixx ~12 hours or so, and we go from there.

[Sando]

Sigh, I'll hammer in 4 hours, midday my time, you'll still be around yeah Creature? Giving drixx a chance to submit.

[Sando]

How about you unvote, I'll vote, and you can hammer when you gotta go

[Sando]

VOTE: Gamma L-1

the worst => sando => gamma => creature => the worst

the worst -> Sando -> Me -> the worst

Sorry Drixx, forgot about fathers day here, this is the most I can give you.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[Sando]

Why do we suddenly have a giraffe for the "superhero" in abilities? Is there something I don't know about giraffes?

[Sando]

Sandizzle did you block C-sizzle last night?

yeppers

[Sando]

Presumably our three way worked (giggity), so in theory we can keep no-lynching until either SuperStrength or Healing shows up.

I'm wrapping my head around how we don't lose trying to actually use heal though. I'm assuming scum took superspeed again last night, leaving them with a probable power list of:

Mind Control (N6)
Echo (N4)
Power Negation (N2)
Super-speed (N7)

[Sando]

I didn't receive powers last night so Sando wasn't blocked

\o/

Interesting...

[Sando]

So with conftown in me, we submit just me for powers, keep swapping leaders, I pick up superspeed tonight and just freeze both of you.

[Sando]

I really dun wanna spend the next 2 months doing that until decent powers pop up though...

[Sando]

So with conftown in me, we submit just me for powers, keep swapping leaders, I pick up superspeed tonight and just freeze both of you.

What's the point though?

Eventually I get powers that bring Drixx/Kokichi back or conftown/scum one of you.

[Sando]

Creature you froze duckling last night?

[Sando]

So with conftown in me, we submit just me for powers, keep swapping leaders, I pick up superspeed tonight and just freeze both of you.

What's the point though?

unfreeze Drixx and Kokichi so we can lynch both of us.

Ok so major problem, I need both superstrength and healing, since while I can freeze through freeze, I can't heal through freeze.

[Sando]

@Kokichi please submit Sando and only Sando (maybe Drixx too??) for superpowahz

Yeah may as well power up Drixx too.

Also may as well make me leader, saves having to wait to give someone with no voice time to checkin and submit.

[Sando]

Can people use powers on the same night as being unstoned?

I assume not.

Also we have no way of knowing what Kokichi has other than echo correct?

I can heal safely after tonight, in that a kill won't go through. But I can't like guarantee the heal without superstrength.

[Sando]

a kill won't go through?

So after tonight I'll have freeze+superspeed.

I freeze Creature, if he's scum best he can do is freeze me back. If he's town he freezes you and you can't do anything. No kill can happen.

I can keep doing that and then superspeed heal to get Drixx or Kokichi back. At that point, if creature is scum me and him freeze each other, no kill goes off but either does heal. If duckling is scum then you either freeze if you have it or you negate me, again heal doesn't go off.

[Sando]

really wanna find out if drixx scumread me or townread you hahaha but that was a fucking good call

Given he was basically attached to me D6 and we followed the exact same logic to the exact same conclusion, I'd say both Or he just kept following our demands and wasn't around for the final couple of hours when it changed again

[Sando]

if he's town he can just keep freezing me forever without being given any new powers right?

Yep, if he's town then he followed the plan last night, you as scum would have known he was targeting you, and done whatever it is you can do to stop him.

We're still alive, so we can assume either creature is scum and failed to stop me freezing him, or duckling is scum and failed to stop creature from freezing him.

If Creature had claimed not to get powers then we'd probably have to lynch today.

[Sando]

If Creature had claimed not to get powers then we'd probably have to lynch today.

That would confscum him though?

Urgh, I need (more) coffee.

[Sando]

So the plan is sound up until:

1) Mod gets shitty at us and tells us to fuck off, you're not getting superstrength+healing anymore
2) Scum re-acquire the leader-power

We know (2) can happen, just not if it can happen again. If/when it does, we have to lynch, depending on the powers that day (if Superstrength is that day we can't risk the night for example)

[Sando]

Mod is a big meanie and pointed out that powers only come when we lynch. Unless someone can point out a plan where we lynch a petrified person one day, I think we gotta lynch in the 3 eventually anyway. I'll vote someone in the morning if no plans forthcoming, night.

[Sando]

Ctrl f me in Titus' ISO before laying down a vote please

Done, what are you saying I'm looking at?

[Sando]

Eh, I'm a stubborn fuck and I'm not really in the business of orating my own decision, may as well get this over with.

GG you two.

VOTE: Creature

[Sando]

Jumping right back in there creature?

[Sando]

Tired, it's been a long week. Got the makings of pulled pork I'm gonna do in my new smoker tomorrow though, so I'm pretty excited.

Shit I'm getting old that that's an exciting start to the weekend for me.

[Sando]

This is my first go of smoking, I did not realise just how long a process is. In the "cooking + prep" time they say "20 hours". Ok admittedly it's like half hour of doing stuff and the rest is sitting around twiddling your thumbs, but still, epic.

[Sando]

The prep for this involves soaking it in a pot of cider...there shall be drinking throughout much of this process

[Sando]

If I were to do it over again, I would have just made all the Superpowers public from the beginning, given you all the Action Resolution Chart, and ignored you all after Night 1.

Hnnng yeah, I think this would've been a great thing to do, even have a pre-game where we could ask questions, maybe even do that before sides were rolled.

Yeah in case it wasn't obvious (it was to mod when I suggested just handing me the game ) I never saw the no-lynch = no-powers, doing that with Titus would've been pretty damn interesting, and probably was the correct call D6 with Math.

In regards to the vote-rigging, I never answered Tor, but as the primary person there: Given a choice between a hidden ability of leadership choosing that there's literally no way for town to check ever, and a hidden ability to mess with abilities that town could theoretically check with precog...I thought scum would be more likely to get the ability to do something town could "catch" them doing.

Awesomely modded btw, thanks!

[Sando]

I'm not sure what Creature could have done differently to win the end game. He did what he needed to do to mislynch a townie in 4-player Lylo, but town did a good job of taking advantage of Freezing when it came up. I do believe Creature made a mistake on Night 7 based on the information he knew, and had everyone acquired an ability like they planned, he would have been blocked anyway.

In the 3-way, nothing, Creature played super well all game.

I think the "mistake" was his directing me onto himself. Easy to say in hindsight, but I think me and duckling were equally likely to say "fuck you, Ima freeze who I wanna freeze" and hand him the game. Also Drixx was never gonna not give me powers imo, but duckling not getting powers was a decent chance. Again, easy to say in hindsight, but me and Drixx were literally hand in hand D6.

Honestly Nos' last posts were what eventually swayed me, suspected Creature and locktowned me. He was an odd bomb target from Math I felt.

[Sando]

This was further exacerbated by Nancy refusing to heal Sakura immediately, and when she finally did heal her, Sakura ended up detonating on Nancy and taking out, in my opinion, the player that had the best chance of winning the game for them.

This was my favourite part of the game fo sho

[Sando]

thank god sando and tw pulled out of their tunnels

bless up for aussie camaraderie

Ok second favourite part was going to bed last night knowing I was gonna vote Creature after that "ima vote in the morning" post and that duckling would be sweating it

[Sando]

@Sando - Great job obvtowning at the right time. I felt like I was taking a huge risk with the team selection but I also thought that if it worked and got us through the night, it should also leave enough info for the win. What in particular made you trust the worst in the end?

Couple of things:

Nos died to Math, I'd have died if the worst was scum imo
Duckling wouldn't open D8 with a gambit like that, I held off cause it's the type of gambit I'd pull, but it's not him
Nos SRd Creature
Last time I offered the scum the game on the penultimate day they declined and I just gave it to them the next day, so I was mostly trying to talk myself down from "but I handed Creature the game yesterday and he didn't take it"
The worst had maintained his pro-town play since end of D3, and a few re-reads was convincing me that he was just hung up on me specifically

[Sando]

@Sando - Great job obvtowning at the right time. I felt like I was taking a huge risk with the team selection but I also thought that if it worked and got us through the night, it should also leave enough info for the win. What in particular made you trust the worst in the end?

Couple of things:

Nos died to Math, I'd have died if the worst was scum imo
Duckling wouldn't open D8 with a gambit like that, I held off cause it's the type of gambit I'd pull, but it's not him
Nos SRd Creature
Last time I offered the scum the game on the penultimate day they declined and I just gave it to them the next day, so I was mostly trying to talk myself down from "but I handed Creature the game yesterday and he didn't take it"
The worst had maintained his pro-town play since end of D3, and a few re-reads was convincing me that he was just hung up on me specifically

Also pretty much everyone conftown had told me I was wrong on duckling, gotta get over my some ego eventually

[Sando]

Sweet jesus the dead thread itself is 84 pages long!

[Sando]

Brian: I think the setup was very well made; there wasn't anything particularly egregious that I saw other than Spiritual Mediumship and Petrification

As much as petrification was a pain for those petrified, I didn't really mind it, and it was kinda cool using mechanics to conftown two observers, and I'm sure having the threat of them coming back into the game was a motivator.

Honestly I think there's too many powers and too much randomness, I think being able to plan out a bit better would be nice. Knock it down to say 20 powers, and no power can occur twice in a row, something like that. Weather manip coming up like 2-3 times and flight never coming up was a bit ???

Also the fact that I blind nailed Creatures powers (except for the issue of Ank actually being given powers, wat?) says that maybe there wasn't enough interaction going on with the powers. I was kinda hoping for powers going off left right and centre, and town scrambling to work out wtf was going on. Instead we mostly just used (useless) protections.

[Sando]

but great job in the end, i was tbh, expecting a 1v1 between Creature and Sando by Creature claiming to have blocked Sando instead or something.

Claiming to block me conftowns duckling to me.
Claiming no powers means I was the only blocker and no kill happened, and I blocked creature so he's scum

I think claiming what he did was the only option, but it was his suggestion of the rotation that we went with, and that cost him

[Sando]

Wait what Brian? Duckling blocking me who blocks Creature doesn't result in a creature block? But two people blocking each other results in both?!

[Sando]

So yes, TW just correctly hit a 50/50 between Creature/Sando, and Sando gambled on Creature when Creature should've been confscum to him.
NGL, I thought it was pretty obvious if you look at just the NAR page (or ask the mod), but considering how much i had Math yelling at me "NO IT'S NOT A CONFTOWN COZ TW CANT BE TRUSTED" or something, i guess it's not that easy to figure out.

The sheer amount of mechanics in this game makes it fairly hard to keep on top of everything.

Suppose Roleblocker A blocks Roleblocker B, who blocks Roleblocker C, who blocks Roleblocker D, who blocks Doctor E. If Roleblocks are resolved in such a way that conflicts are minimized, A blocks B, preventing B from blocking C, thus C blocks D, preventing D from blocking the Doctor - in short, the Doctor's protection would have an effect. If all Roleblocks are simultaneous, the only player who is NOT technically Roleblocked is A; the Doctor would be blocked.

How is this clear? To me this is specifically saying "it's one or the other and either is fine".

[Sando]

So yes, TW just correctly hit a 50/50 between Creature/Sando, and Sando gambled on Creature when Creature should've been confscum to him.

I was 100% legit and not testing when I offered it to Creature as well

Second game I've said to scum "here, please have the game", and they've turned me down.

[Sando]

I don't know what that is.

For this game, I specifically had them resolve simultaneously only if they were in conflict, meaning they were affecting each other. If they weren't in conflict, then it followed the path of minimal conflict that you quoted (in that the first player in the chain gets resolved first and you just resolve left to right).

It's from the Natural Action Res wiki page, am I reading the wrong place?

Also specifically why I wanted my plan instead of TWs. My plan was mechanically sound, but read-flawed.

[Sando]

I think it's on the Roleblocker Page. The first example is consistent with how I understand NAR to work. The second one where the Roleblocks all happen simultaneously doesn't make sense to me.

Sorry yeah, RB page.

My reading was that the two viable readings of RB chaining is

A>B>C>D>E results in:

a) All except A getting roleblocked
b) Only B gets Roleblocked

Since you confirmed the circle resulted in a block on all, I thought that meant we were using (a).

[Sando]

I'm just getting to the end of the dead thread, what the fuck are you guys on about with the RB rules?! Like me and Duckling at least are clearly furiously PMing the mod who is giving us answers so we can formulate a plan. You can't go back on that, if it's "wrong" it's wrong, but it doesn't matter since the mod defined the rules to us as clearly as we asked (not very it turns out ) and we went from there.

We had our chance to ask, we did, a lot, and we all live and die by that decision.

[Sando]

Putting it down to what you actually had
TW > Sando > Creature > TW = All are blocked
Sando > Creature > TW = Sando blocks Creature. Sando and TW unblocked.

I mean I get that this is the "rule", but I'd argue that's definitively NOT clear from the wiki.

Yes I extrapolated from incomplete data (badly), but then I also specifically knew it was incomplete data (two different RB roles) so I wanted to avoid the confusion.

@TW yeah most def, what's the harm in trying?

[Sando]

So if one player breaks the chain, then we go back to the path of minimal conflict.

Yeah it's this bit that I didn't get.

I was like "oh golden rule, nah that didn't work, next!" and never revisited the golden rule. I was reading it like a list that you check off, when it should be a loop function.

[Sando]

You know.
I keep forgetting I fake claimed Masons with Katsuki this game.

You guys keep calling us end-game town terrible and keep forgetting the sheer amount of random bullshit that we had to deal with. Nos fake-claimed guilty on me as well

[Sando]

Also why the hell am I coping flak for not understanding the circular roleblock shit here?! I specifically proposed a solution that had the same outcome but would actually work, I just fucked it and TRd creature into it.

[Sando]

I also never thought the answer should have been obvious and don't think I ever said as such.

I was never convinced of the circular roleblock yeah, and did say a lot about that D7

[Sando]

Also, I don't believe I ever even explicitly told anyone anything about a circular roleblock.

the worst asked me what would happen if two players roleblocked each other and extrapolated the circular roleblock from my response.

I asked about a 3 way (giggity) and you confirmed what would happen and that all would be blocked. I specifically posited that they all roleblock though, not what happens if one renegs on RBing.

[Sando]

In terms of actual reads, FA kept throwing mine right off with the ridiculous defensiveness. I called out both her and Math for it during "the fight", but it was an all-game thing. I was SRing both for it, but when FA went town I kinda forgot about it.

[Sando]

I asked about a 3 way (giggity) and you confirmed what would happen and that all would be blocked. I specifically posited that they all roleblock though, not what happens if one renegs on RBing.

Probably. I was asked a lot of things.

Even about how Votes and Night actions were resolved.

Who was the most prolific questioner?

If it's me after spending an entire day cycle asking questions in thread after it said "PM only" I'm gonna lol

[Sando]

I liked your response on the 2p roleblock conundrum and made an assumption about the way you'd resolve a larger circular roleblock

I was baiting you at that time since I'd already asked him about "Freezing" and was told to go jump because it's not tonights powers. When you came back with an answer I assumed you were lying

[Sando]

what else? THE WORST. YOU'RE SO GOOD WOW. man I was cheering so hard for you. you showed some amazing instincts and when you backed from your sando wolfread when he was incoherently tunneling you (sorry sando), that was pretty fantastic play. that's the kind of rational evaluation that wins games right there.

If someone wants to explain D3 townDuckling to me I'm all ears

Also his circle plan "should" have literally handed scum the win if followed. Why wouldn't I SR that?

[Sando]

It's Titus' seeming confidence that they coordinated to elect FA and then not taking that to its logical conclusion that has me worried.

Also getting SRd for "mechanics not content" literally all game when one of my first posts is this really triggered me. I even bolded it in my post before that:

Titus has started the speculation but not actually dug into it, which I don't like.

[Sando]

what else? THE WORST. YOU'RE SO GOOD WOW. man I was cheering so hard for you. you showed some amazing instincts and when you backed from your sando wolfread when he was incoherently tunneling you (sorry sando), that was pretty fantastic play. that's the kind of rational evaluation that wins games right there.

If someone wants to explain D3 townDuckling to me I'm all ears

Also his circle plan "should" have literally handed scum the win if followed. Why wouldn't I SR that?

if I wasn't loud about the sui bombing plan being horrible for town we'd have lost a long time ago. why didn't you TR that?

and yeah to me the worst was ~obvtown the way he was approaching my slot. it could have been pocketing, but his emotions were extremely transparent through my mislynch and I expect competent players to pick up on that. I was annoyed TW was being scumread tbh, but yeah I wasn't seeing the game through your perspective to judge.

The sui plan was TWs...

So I'm an idiot for not TRing you for being against it, and also SRing the person who proposed it is also idiotic?

[Sando]

One of the things that felt weird to me was that I stated a deadline to stop talking mechanics and start actually scumhunting and it seemed that math managed to extend the mechanical talk over scumhunting, but for some reason i gave fault to the entire playerlist.

It was good in theory, but we hadn't even officially decided "2 TRs for leaders every night" had we?

[Sando]

Wait math actually had precog and just lied for the sake of it? Or he didn't have the chance to use it because of using another power or something?

Why lie?

[Sando]

Wait math actually had precog and just lied for the sake of it? Or he didn't have the chance to use it because of using another power or something?

Why lie?

He didnt want to let town know some of the powers that were coming that night.
Also that night math used not precog, so the next set of powers were 100% lie

Yeah there was two lies, the second "made sense", but what about the coming powers made it worth lying about?

[Sando]

You're saying incoherent, how is "this person acted scummy AF D3 and has twice now suggested anti-town plans" incoherent?

[Sando]

you're referring to things mathblade did when talking about TW :d

a) TW sheeped Titus onto me D3
b) Math latched onto TWs bomb plan
c) The second TW plan was post Math's death, so I'm reasonably sure that no, I'm not referring to Math there

[Sando]

setup was loltownsided so we had no reason to rush

Proceeds to blow up town...

[Sando]

setup was loltownsided so we had no reason to rush

Proceeds to blow up town...

why are you taking jabs at me mate? you got hard carried, it happens, move on

yes I killed theta in a gameday I thought the wolves were theta, nancy and mathblade. I couldn't kill math and I would NEVER kill nancy unless she healed sakura first. I stand behind the use of my sui, it was smart.

Righto mate, you're a god, really well done

[Sando]

Tora made the most respectable play possible with a 1 shot vig IMO. blast through the pool of high lynch equity players.

Subsequently stating that the game is "loltownsided" and we just needed to slow down is what I'm calling out as fairly self serving.

[Sando]

and that's not taking in consideration all the ways scum could manipulate that

Yeah cause noone ever mentioned that other than you

You came in here and said congrats for stopping his tunnel to someone that was told by the night actions that I'm town, and that I got hardcarried...

But yeah, I'm the asshole here...

[Sando]

sorry I liked his play? I was very much a fan of your posting d1 too. it trended down from there but I think you're a good player, sando.

You can like his play, you're just showing a pretty clear lack of understanding of the game.

You two bonded over being jackasses D6 and me lynching you, before Drixx turned a probable town loss into a decent shot of winning.

I know it's hard to actually look critically at your own play and realise where you went wrong, but you'll be a better person and player for it.

[Sando]

are you following your own advice though?

You mean talking to Sakura and Brian about how I fucked up the mechanics? Pretty sure, yeah.

[Sando]

Slow cookers are fun like that too, similar deal I guess. The only disadvantage is drinking while prepping is way less fun.

Holy shit dude, I literally just rubbed pretty much pure sugar into pork+cider...then cracked my last cider to celebrate. My entire work tomorrow is putting some wood in water and lighting a fire...

This smoking business is pretty awesome.

[Sando]

Like what do you even call defensive? where was I ever pushed? I was questioned for a while and I tried to answer them. How is that being defensive? what should I have done instead? not answering the questions about my slot?

Every time I was like "maybe we shouldn't continuously stack leaders on FA" it was "zomg I CANNOT believe you'd say that?! SCUM!".

I suggested that scum were happy to have you as leader and "zomg I CANNOT believe you'd say that?! SCUM!".

[Sando]

I wasn't even saying you were scummy, I was in fact saying I TRd you, and yet it was still super defensive.

[Sando]

You were saying scum were happy with me as leader which is still bothering me. why would scum be happy with me as leader? I became leader day 1 because town people + 1 ircher scum voted me. also in next day phases it was something that was decided during the day.

I did, and the impression I'm getting from dead thread was that I was right. I'm surprised they were happy with 1, but then I guess with Titus D2 getting Nancy into the townbloc must've seemed pretty appealing.

I wasn't even saying you picked shit, hell 1/5 scum is better than average, I was just saying scum were happy (at least happier than having Ank) to have you as leader, and that that information should be used.

I didn't mind the D2 case against me, I was pissed it happened while I was VLA, but the case wasn't bad.

I'm just saying that reacting with such defensiveness when someone mentions you in anything less than extreme towniness is really, really off-putting. Math did the exact same thing and it was also off-putting, but when you flipped I just put it down to different styles.

[Sando]

And yes I said again I have a special personality that makes everyone think whetever I'm saying is me being an aggressive defensive person but I was pretty much debating your ideas about this not defending myself from anything.

I tend to posit things in fairly blunt factual terms and separate from my actual opinions, which freaks people out.

You can read dead thread around Day 7 when I'm explaining why Math is mechanically town and everyone is freaking to fuck out . I knew Math was scum, I was simply explaining the mechanical reason that he wasn't.

In hindsight it's a massive scumtell from Math and not from you to be that defensive. Math obviously thinks pretty similarly to me, the interaction with Sakura in the dead-thread shows she can put herself in my position very well. Sakura is technically right but unable or unwilling to put themselves in my shoes. The response of "yeah I can see how you think that, but you're wrong" is what I'd expect from a town!Math now, having never played town with them

[Sando]

I think i shouldn't have picked players that night where math got a power. it was a bad idea.

Urgh, I remember that, you asked me what I thought and I said yeah decent plan. Nancy went for my throat about the mechanics, and then Math went for my throat when I went after Nancy. Fairly amusing in hindsight.

viewtopic.php?p=10355159#p10355159

[Sando]

besides that though do you have any criticism about how I handled leadership? do you still think it was better if others were leader over me? every night I was not leader a scum took leadership till my replace out. so let me rephrase that, I took leadership position from scum whenever I could by pushing myself for leadership whenever I could.

No it was good, although I think the insistent on going deep on powering people up instead of wide was probably a mistake.

Yes I'd have rather you pushed others towards leadership, I think such staunch defence of your own and advocating for multiple leaderships took away from your ability to influence us on it. I think you'd have likely gotten multiple leaderships regardless and maybe been able to stop the Math leader.

[Sando]

No it was good, although I think the insistent on going deep on powering people up instead of wide was probably a mistake.

Just on this, I dunno about anyone else, but Nos's death was literally the first one that I read

anything

into from a reads perspective. Like literally every kill was to kill a PR or to manipulate leader, or both, and made absolutely perfect sense for scum to do and gave us basically no information because of it.

[Sando]

Yeah big difference between what could be improved and what was your fault. Not your fault Math was leader D4, but doesn't mean can't improve

[Sando]

Drixx why'd you stop SRing me D3?

[Sando]

Yeah, I don't appreciate being called a puppet leader repeatedly if it wasn't obvious.

Sorry if you felt I was one of the ones saying that.

I thought the stacking powers was a mistake, but I also said it was a valid option at the time, it's a hindsight mistake, not one you could or should have foreseen.

You weren't made leader because you were bad, in fact I'd say the fact that you're a good scumhunter with a good rep made you one of the viable options. Not like scum can really suggest me for leader with a straight face

I was only critical of not wanting to countenance that scum were pretty ok with you being leader. When we saw petrification we should have put it together, but we needed to be ok with the idea that scum were ok with you being leader for some reason.

I also think in hindsight powering up the strongest players was a mistake, it allowed scum to believably kill off their threats both mechanically and read-wise, and gave us zero info on those kills. But that wasn't your idea much as just the accepted wisdom.

[Sando]

Yes but the rest of players were not even playing the game till day 4 and I'm not even remotely exaggerating.

You can't give someone power by a coin flip you know?

Oh yes, I'm very aware of that

Much of the difficulties this game was people just fucking around tbh, then the same people want to play armchair general. What can ya do?

[Sando]

Rofl I love that Math also missed that Nero was dead, dead-thread was giving duckling so much shit for that.

[Sando]

I am so sorry Nero

Lol was just funny reading:

Dead-thread - OMG does duckling still think Nero is alive? What the f?! So stupid!

2 days later when scum PT opens

ScumPTmath - Oh shit, Nero still alive somehow?!?! Shit I have to bomb him!!!

[Sando]

Looks like it nearly got Math to submit a sui bomb on Nero, wonder if it'd have gone through

[Sando]

Reading the bits about trying to get me elected and framed makes me lol.