OPEN 732 : PICK YOUR POWER X/Y (GAME OVER)

[skitter30]

@duckling:

v/la on fridays and saturdays always :)

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in before the mod pms us lets go

VOTE: ruru

scum has pregame chat and likely coordinated their numerical picks, having one scumbuddy go with number 1 would probably be a safe thing to do.

me + sando + ruru + duckling (+ maybe ofrhz? I don't remember) were talking about the optimal way to play the draft last week on discord (well before role PMs were given out) and she came to the conclusion that the best way to break the draft is to have a meta of always picking 1, as that way other people would avoid it so that they don't tie with you and that you get first pick as either alignment. she also made such a statement in her signup post in the queue

thus it's wholly NAI because she said she was going to do it before she got her PM

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heha second post

VOTE: Oka

trying to drag us out of rvs so soon?

is that a bad thing?

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VOTE: VulkanLogician

Tautologies must die

kinda surprised you didn't comment on the ruru-1 thing above?

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I think we can safely assume that no two people with the same number are scum together.

i'm pretty sure that someone said that there was a recent iteration of this where scum did just that for the wifom. honestly not going to read too much into the draft because it's basically a mess of wifom that we have no way of conclusively untangling. like it can point in certain directions - 'i think it's probably unlikely that two people with the same number are scum together' is a fair statement, but completely ruling that out by 'safely assuming' scum wouldn't have done that on page 1 i don't think is such a good idea

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VOTE: Skitter30

Highest number picked is a scum pick

nah i asked the mice and they told me that 42 was the answer to life, the universe, and everything, and i decided the perfect time to test what insights that number could offer me was in a game where i bid to get effective super powers as i try to lynch people

really cuz i figured i could hit that sweetspot of avoiding the glut of doubled-over or tripled-over numbers but where i might end up getting vt anyways - i def like playing vt best and this way i could achieve some sort of happy medium of making a reasonable effort at getting a pr knowing there's a decent chance i wouldn't

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I think we can safely assume that no two people with the same number are scum together.

let's not

Is this how you normally are?

Because your tone rubs me the wrong way. I feel dismissed and belittled.

VOTE: ofrhz

i don't want to just dismiss your feelings out of hand but i kinda agree with ofrhz's sentiment and i don't think he said anything scummy here? like even if you think he was trying to dismiss and/or belittle you i'm not sure why you're finding that scummy and/or voteworthy?

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Yes

My assumption is backed by reasoning.
If he/she is town who thinks my reasoning is flawed he/she could have argued his point of view.

He/she did not and simply disagreed

.

i'm still missing the part where you think this is *scummy*

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You need to look at the individual people and decide whether they are likely to enact a plan where they pick the same numbers.

i think that the set of people who are likely to enact such a plan != the set of people who is likely to go along with such a plan because someone else on their team suggested they would

like i think i know ofrhz reasonably(?) well and i don't think he'd pick the same number as someone else unless there was a more experienced member of the scumteam who recommended that he do so; ie i don't think he'd do that on his own but he might if someone esle says he should

sando i could see doing this for the wifom

idk cj well enough to comment either way.

i guess what i'm saying is that if this happened people who may have suggested doing it may not actually be *in* the group of potential double/triple-numbers and we shouldn't limit this sort of analysis to just that group of people

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Anyone got a link to that PYP where scum all picked the same number?

people were saying this was a thing? I thought it was 2 same - 1 different. i really can't imagine a scumteam picking all three of the same number because i think in most games that basically locks them out of getting any PRs at all. also agree that focusing too much on the draft prob won't lead to any useufl conclusions; i think while it can and should be a factor when forming reads play >>> draft

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ODDLY FORMAL GREETING

EXPRESSION OF SURPRISE THAT A GAME ON MAFIASCUM DOT NET WHICH WAS SCHEDULED TO START STARTED

EXCUSE FOR MISSING RVS

RVS VOTE

VOTE: AP

we're basically out of rvs here so i'm kinda surprised that you have nothing else to say beyond this

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VOTE: brassherald

gut+if orhz is correct i guess my theory might be dead in the water

i'm kinda getting townpings from brass

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VOTE: skitter

Only one besides me who hasn't posted yet.

i got kinda majorly dehydrated yesterday and am/was feeling kinda sick-ish

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i am confused?

if you're PGO i'm not really sure why you would announce this unless you were trying to like purposefully not get visited. although if you're town i guess that's probably be the point

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God, I hate this right now from ruru, but what's worse is that I think it's town because there is no scum motivation in it that I can think of. It's too obvious.

this is really, really out-of-character from town!ruru in my expereince. but i also can't imagine her doing this as scum; i don't think she has a high enough degree of confidence in her scumgame to play like this

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yay real time

[skitter30]

heha second post

VOTE: Oka

trying to drag us out of rvs so soon?

is that a bad thing?

Nah my post was just throwaway rvs filler

fair enough!

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Not sure why one would pick a PGO if you were town anyways, considering likely more town PRs than scum PRs. Wouldn't town just choose 1 shot vig?
Plus wtf would ruru, as first seed, choose from that pair?

Ruru could always be vengeful scum and trying to get us to pl her?

i can't imagine myself ever picking pgo tbh; the main town motivation i can think of for picking pgo is to kill scum when they try to nk me, but that necessitates: a) obvtowning b) getting nk'd c) trying to ensure that town protectives wont' be on me. like it's hard to predict the nk and i wouldn't want to accidentally kill protectives doing their job correctly if *they* correctly figure out where the nk is going. like there's too many fiddly things going on here for this sort of thing to succeed without fucking up majorly

i agree that this is kinda a waste of a first pick tbh

i think that scum!ruru might come up with a plan of purposefully trying to get pl'd in order to utilize a venge-kill - but i don't think she actually tries to carry that herself; i feel like she tries not to draw attention to herself as scum and that she's very ... safe and strategic and not lolcrazy (source: newbie 1859)

i suppose it's possible she'd prefer getting strategically pl'd by acting crazy to actually trying to play out the game carefully and rationally as scum longterm maybe? but i'm kinda having a hard time seeing her do it tbh - and her doing that as scum means that scum sacrificed the first pick to purposefully pl one of their own and that also seems kinda unlikely to me

[skitter30]

viewtopic.php?f=90&t=75474

i'm having a lot of trouble seeing the person who kept posting to herself 'i am town' in her scum pt (i'm pretty sure this is last scumgame on site barring a marathon game last week) trying to pull any of these things off as scum tbh

[skitter30]

But to answer the question I find it scummy to disagree with someone who has shared their opinion and given reasons for their opinion without also stating why you disagree.
- it might be laziness
- it might be a way to reduce the person's influence
- it might be a way to make them change the subject (especially if they are on the right track)
- it might be a way to discourage them from sharing their thoughts (this one is rare I don't think people do this often but there is definitely an advantage for scum if town talk less and when a towny's arguments are met with just 'no' / 'wrong' etc, it can be disheartening) now I'm not discouraged by things like that but unless they're an alt they haven't played with me before and thus wouldn't know this about me.

i mean, i can understand what you're saying in a broad context but i didn't really get this sort of vibe from ofrhz's post; it's more of a playstyle thing from him i think. like i'm saying that i doubt he had any sort of nefarious intent behind that post; i think he just posts that way in a general sense

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barring a marathon game last week

Technically suiciding and venging town is my scum meta now

you also said you didn't say anything that game

i've got some other thoughts on the pgo thing but i feel like it's prob best not to speculate aloud just yet

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Hmm

Town: ofrhz, skitter, brass, maybe AP

Lacks town: invis
Feels forced: oka
Possible svs: enigma/bujaber

Of those four I actually scumread bujaber least

i'm low-key getting the vibe from 115 and 116 that oka is trying to find reasons to find the pgo thing scummy?

especially since he keeps asking about how good you are at mafia and i had already talked about my experience with your meta at least once

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I very much doubt CJ is partnered with ofrhz, and I know he's not partnered with me. CJ is a very blasé scum when it comes to using powers or plans etc, and basically peaces out of that part of the game, I can't see him going along with this plan and being part of the double up. He would happily let his partners do what they want, so he could be solo to the 3's or the 6's, but I doubt he'd be partnered with a double up.

i really want that scum PT to be opened up ....

@ap: is this a fair assessment of scum!cj given jungle republic?

[skitter30]

got it, my one and only game with him is jungle republic and all i can base my understanding of that assessment on is how he reacted to ap's plan in thread after the guilty

i'll check out that link at some point.

[skitter30]

@skitter30 why aren't you voting someone?

also to everyone, meta changes lets not let it be our guiding reason to scumread/townread someone. especially if you think someone is not capable of doing x because of y game, they can improve and be able to do x in this game.

cuz i'm still getting a feel for things and not sure where i want to vote yet; i often don't vote (or don't vote seriously) till later on during day1

i can't really speak to cj meta but i feel fairly confident on the ruru meta tbh

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got it, my one and only game with him is jungle republic and all i can base my understanding of that assessment on is how he reacted to ap's plan in thread after the guilty

i'll check out that link at some point.

It's probably a better indicator yeah. Newbie with me the cop was basically a single word short of hard-claiming cop, CJs partner noticed it (as did pretty much everyone) and posted in scum pt during twilight of his lynch that CJ should kill the person. CJ was like "nah fuck it, ima kill this other guy", completely missing the cop thing entirely.

Basically, CJ strikes me as a great scum in game, but not one for following da plan, hence I think he wouldn't be part of a pair that picked the same number, but I think he wouldn't mind if his two partners paired up their numbers and left him solo.

i get what you're saying but idk if i would go so far to rule him out from potentially pairing up because of this tbh

honestly in a general sense i don't really think that the draft numbers should form the basis of reads (not talking to you specifically here); like it can def be a factor but it shouldn't be the *main* factor imo since WIFOM is inherently at play here

[skitter30]

viewtopic.php?f=90&t=75474

i'm having a lot of trouble seeing the person who kept posting to herself 'i am town' in her scum pt (i'm pretty sure this is last scumgame on site barring a marathon game last week) trying to pull any of these things off as scum tbh

Ok her scum play is sooooooooo very different to what we see here. As scum she posted meaningful discussions and fake analysis. Here, it sounds like she has a posting restriction ... it is so different that it seems almost forced.

she wouldn't post as scum without like re-reading and re-checking each of her posts; it was all super planned and coordinated very very carefully. i just don't see her being ... carefree enough to post like this as scum. it's too lolcrazy to come from her as scum!imo.

like she's too worried about how she's percieved to try something like this i think

i also played a towngame with her - brass's open; i think open 721 maybe? and she was just a lot more ... spontaneous is prob a good word

[skitter30]

This isn't spontaneous ruru? Wow.

i meant that spontaneity (ie not planned and/or orchestrated ) is a towntell for her and this is too spontaneous to come from her as scum i think since she like overthinks everything as scum
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Yeah
I don't look at old games. It might be a bad thing. It might be limiting myself. But I just don't do it. I sometimes look up general notes on setups on wiki but that's it. I come into setups fresh or if I've played them before I bring my own experience. Just the way I am. I don't think the value gained from it is worth the research time personally.

But technically what I said doesn't actually confirm that. All I said is 1 of them is scum. I could also have been one of them.

the bolded pings me the wrong way - you're saying that there's scum in the group of people who posted about scum strats for this game but you're highlighting that it could have been you?

I acrually have a gut scumread on brass. He seems quite confident, and from my personal interactions with him he seems more confident as scum than as town.

i haven't played with scum!brass but he's pinging me as town here - i liked the analysis he did wrt draft; it felt very nuanced to me

is brass who you were thinking of wrt the '1 scum in the people who were posting scum-strats' thing?

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setup speculation here is kinda boring and useless d1 but I guess it's something I should have expected signing up for pyp x/y.

agree

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I got a townvibe from oka tbh. So I found ausuka's gut read interesting.

Could be that oka is very good at threading the NAI line

why townvibes? i didn't really like his reaction to the pgo thing
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VOTE: Enigma

blatantly sheeping two early town reads (agree with the tone looking weird in 109 and with CJ's point as well)

but mostly BuJaber's latest posts made me not like my vote on him

Are you are blatantly sheeping onto this new wagon?

what do you think about ruru's and ofrhz's votes on you?

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i think i want to go here for now

VOTE: oka

[skitter30]

VOTE: Oka
iso'd and actually im getting a gut ping here

meh, kinda wondering if you hopped on because you saw other people joining it

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Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one. I think I want to sheep skitter for now.

VOTE: Oka

is this just a sheep?

Nope. That was the slot that actually got me pulling my hair off. Al he seems to do is nitpick anything that anyone else says. It looks like he wants to stand out as "doing something different" but -at the same time- nothing productive. He's spewing doubt in every single case or line of reasoning anyone else tries to build upon and that's it.

i'm getting a general vibe of like ... contrariness from him, if that makes sense? like he's trying to stir up conflict almost?

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@skitter - not exactly. I was saying that the fact that I said I predict that 1 scum is among the researchers doesn't necessary mean I didn't research. It just so happens to be true but since it was just a prediction on something nai (research) the next time I predict something similar I might be among the pool. In this case the fact that multiple people have researched past games points to one f them being scum simply because I find it highly unlikely that all those that researched are town. Especially since scum benefit more from the research in this setup imo.

No brass scumread is based on the meta thing I mentioned. I wasn't thinking about him or anyone else in particular when I made the prediction.

I dunno I kinda felt that oka's posts seemed like active participation for the purposes of scumhunting. But given the wagon on him it'd be worth reading his ISO to see all his posts together and assess his total contribution to the game so far.

i agree that it's very likely that scum researched past iterations of this setup, but the actual act of posting about the result of that research is generally nai to me unless osmeone was like trying to get towncred for doing all that work. in a vaccum i don't that posting such things is scum-indicative or town-indicative; scum may have researched but not bothered to post their results, and town might not have researched at all; those would look the same too.

like i don't think the acts of 'researching' necessitates 'posting about the research' and just because scum are more likely to do the former doesn't make them more likely to do the latter amongst the people who researched, if that makes sense.

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Gut says one of the three who jumped on are scum.

I don't think there is (for myself, at least) any point in trying to rationalise ruru for now. I think I'll just ignore her and her claim until later in the game where it will all unravel if she's scum.

Also I was just waiting to see if ofrhz would feel like explaining himself later. He asked a few qs, I responded but he didn't say end up reasoning in thread but rather just jumped on the wagon. Though I imagine it was due to my attention on ruru, and given the controversy and difference of opinions there - leaning the suspicion towards sky.

i'm still not entirely sure why you think sky's vote was the worst tbh? i actually kinda liked it for how obvious she was being about sheeping townreads - scum i feel like don't usually lampshade votes that way or are that blatant about it

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Without meta, what's your read on me?

tending towards town - you feel a lot more engaged like ... *here* than last game, if that makes sense. your posts are also exhibiting a level of insight that was kinda lacking last time.

(i know you said without meta but i have a lot trouble reading your sort of playstle cold tbh so i try to use other things to form the read - if you noticed last game my read on you was basically based on associatives and very little of it was based on what *you* were doing; most of what you actually did wasn't really AI for me; here since i have a baseline for how you play i can compare what you're doing here to what you did there)

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Did that game end?

Yeah but mod is away with some personal issues I think and so it hasn't technically finished. Me and AP have access to the dead thread, CJ and AP have access to the wolf thread, and Skitter has nothing

poor me

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*post to indicate that i am sick but still slightly skimming the thread and expressing discomfort on the enigma wagon*

when you come back, can you talk more about why you don't like it?

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Yeah, why a PL day 2?

My math was off. I thought day 2 was mylo -1 but it's day 3.

I think your math is off still, but to confirm, you're saying policy lynch them the last day where their vengeance won't tip that lynch into a lylo retrospectively?

sando, any hot takes on the game thus far?

[skitter30]

tending town on cj and brass

ap i don't really have a read yet on yet but i def think i'll be able to read him as things progress

i don't think anyone in this game has seen scum!me; my most recent scumgame is like last august lol

i don't think ruru is lynchable today despite the claim

def interested in your hot scum take when you're ready to share

[skitter30]

Cool cool, I hope you enjoy the birthday with your gf

[skitter30]

Then why is a good percentage of players debating about pl you??

yeah but the people who know her are saying that she's town and there's enough such players in this game that i don't think it's going to happen today

and like it's a pgo claim - it'll very likely resolve itself at some point - there will likely be deaths attributable to that at some point and/or she might die. if she's still alive late-game i think we can re-evaluate this at that time (making a reasonable guess that we're just before xylo)

i really don't like that you keep pushing this and that you ask questions like 'Anti-town vs scum vs noob hrrrmmmm...' and that you're not really listening to the people who have more experience with her than you do who try to answer that question.

also like she's a smart player especially wrt mechanics and setup spec and such and like i think she probably thought through what she's doing, and i really really really don't think she'd ever try to pull any of this off as scum.

like a pl isn't actually happening today so i think we should stop beating this horse and move on, and i'm kinda getting the vibe that you're trying to take advantage of a lolclaim to maybe try to push one through

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^ I'm not sure if that made any sense
Basically, I think posts like this make sense and demonstrate attempts at balancing probabilities:

if she was vengeful then she would run the risk of getting cc'd by the actual pgo/vig right?

unless she knew real pgo/vig was on her team, adding an extra layer of wifom

i find things like the bolded to be reach-y as well

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mediocre explanation imo, tone is about as useful as saying gut, i'd go as far as to stating tone as a reason to vote is equivalent to an rvs level vote which we have already transitioned out of.

eh, i suck at tone-reading usually but some people do use that or gut to form reads. i don't think tone-reading == rvs vote, and i don't think a vote should be waived away because tone was used as the reason to vote it. i think cj's point is fine for the stage of the game

im not necessarily townreading enigma solidly, but i felt like the wagon forming was either fueled by scum or skygazer+ruru+orfhz is a clique that just do things for the lulz which does unfortunately happen on this site.

i don't know sky really but i know ofrhz and ruru fairly well and i think that ofrhz vote makes sense following ruru's actually given enigma's stance on the pgo-claim thing and ofrhz townreading her

i like the wagon comp overall actually except for maybe the ausuka vote

VOTE: enigma

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I think Enigma could be scum with ruru. I don't really see any other scum motivation for the posts he's making. I think ruru's latest posts are townish but I still think it's too risky to keep em alive for very long.

and what, this whole thing is awkward distancing for the towncred once ruru flips scum?

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Is Ausuka always this quiet? I literally cannot remember.

i don't think so? i haven't played with her that often but i feel like she's usually a bit more active

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I lean town on him, but my inner paranoiac wonders if scum!ceej is just not super towny. (I've never played with Ceej as scum.)

no, he isn't

[skitter30]

and what, this whole thing is awkward distancing for the towncred once ruru flips scum?

Yup

Or he's bad at scum.

Like.. the whole arguing for both sides of the PL seems like a cop-out. You're either for or against. You can change your mind about it, but to be both for AND against at the same time?.. scummy.
Like if enigma is scum and ruru is town why even mention that ruru might be vengeful? Get credit for being cautious? That doesn't work. He just looks bad here so I'm thinking maybe he's trying to get credit for the PL but not actually wanting the PL to happen and that's where the ruru association came from.

If you want the opinion of someone who hasn't played with any of the so called 'clique' .. except maybe skitter I think we've played once before not sure... I understand and agree with the skitter townread. I can see why someone would lean town for ruru but the rest I don't see anything obvtown about them so it makes me uncomfortable when there is a group that trusts each other this quickly. Scum absolutely will try to infiltrate the town bloc and any townie should have healthy skepticism wrt those that agree with them / TR them.

i think he's come to the conclusion that he wants a pl; i don't think he's arguing for both sides of a pl - where do you see that happening? above he said something along the lines of: 'tldr i don't think a pl on ruru is such a bad idea'.

i think he's trying to gauge interest for and promote interest in a pl based on the lolclaim

like he's pushing 'anti-town or scum or noob' and is pushing a pl on her for being anti-town and not really listening to the people who can read her better

ruru's obvtown based on meta; or, more accurately, what she's done here like never comes from scum!her so she's very very very likely town. i don't know how to explain why better than i have already

based on that context i think ofrhz's vote makes sense; like it's possible he's just jumping on the bandwagon but from what i know about the two of them and their previous games together (i was an se in their first newbie game on site and then played brass's pyp with them immediatley thereafter and i talk to both of them on discord and have a fairly decent sense for how they play i think). like given that context his trajectory makes sense too

(we played the second-to-last iteration of jungle republic and iirc you were maf and repped out and AP took your slot and then i death-tunneled him lolz)

@skitter30 you like how people hopped on the wagon with naked votes?

i think i answered this question as best i can above

in a general sense i don't like naked votes, no, but i think given the context of enigma pushing ruru and ofrhz having a pretty good history of reading her the votes make sense

i like the votes in order something like: ruru > ofrhz > sky >>>> ausuka

(i don't remember ausuka's offhand and have like no thoughts on it either way)

p-edit: vizzy vote seems decent too tbh

[skitter30]

i don't like that he's pushing a pl on ruru

i don't know if i'm sheeping so much as noting that i like the wagon comp

[skitter30]

pretty sure ausuka is in this game more than invis is, brass.

Invisibility is in this game?

VOTE: Invisibility

I'd rather have the pressure vote on someone I forgot was in the game than Ausuka who I at least remembered.

i mean, a pressure vote is kinda useless if you announce that it's a pressure vote.

what do you think about his reaction?

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not scumreading invis, definitely not for the oka vote; feel like the unapologetic nature of the vote instead of making up some justification is town-indicative.

i like the wagon situation w/ enigma and oka.

really? i kinda got the vibe that he couldn't be bothered to make up a reason and that he hopped on cuz other people are doing it.

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Ehhh Ausuka needs to post more but I'm not seeing her vote in that bad of a light tbh, it comes directly after 39 which was super scummy

pedit oh there you are

i wasn't calling it a bad vote so much as noting that i liked the other votes better and that i didn't remember why she voted offhand; i didn't really have an opinion on it either way but liked the other ones

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this seems town.

why? i don't like that they apologize for being absent, promise more content, and fail to deliver; feels kinda active-lurk-y to me tbh

also i don't like the cj read; i feel like he's trying to tone down the strength of the read or like give himself a reason to scumread him later

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@Skitter - the above posts give me the impression he's debating whether or not we should pl.
And I'm getting suspicious of it because generally I see that people are either for or against pl's as a concept. If you start talking meta and analyzing posts and all that then it ceases to be a PL... then it's just a regular TR or SR.

oh, i figured he'd come to a conclusion that he wanted a pl (or at least, was trying to gauge if people were susceptible to that idea) with

TLDR: PL ruru doesn't seem like a bad idea.

and i don't really like that because i feel like he's trying to cast her actions as scummy (or at least, ill-considered). like i feel like he's looking to shade her and call her behavior anti-town at-best and using that as a reason to pl her.

@ruru - individually I SR sando for

I'm off to bed, but yeah your reads on what I would/wouldn't do as scum are spot on, so I'll read through the rest of your stuff there in the morning, seems worthwhile.

Feels like a way to make brass stop looking into him too closely.

But I also have a gut meta scumread on brass. But since this would be weak af way to distance I don't think they can both be scum. Also because my reasoning for sando sr doesn't work if brass is scum.

i think that post was just saying he wanted to go to bed; i don't think that's AI. in fact, i feel like if he was trying to avoid brass he could have just like ... not commented on his read of him, or not acknowledge that brass was right. also, he followed up on brass's post in his next one; it's not like he didn't acknowledge it or talk about it or anything. also brass was saying he felt like sando *wouldn't* have doubled up as scum (and sando *did* double up in the draft here) so i'm not sure what you think sando doesn't want him looking at exactly

i don't really think this is a good reason to scumread him and i feel like the reasoning is kinda weak and ignores context

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id hope that people would talk more when they are mentioned

also i don't see how this has anything to do with scumhunting

I'm scumhunting, I'm just not confident enough in any of my reads to make cases.

Plus, I find its very hard to form a read on someone if they are not participating in the game.

That's just me, though, I might be crazy to want to base my reads on like content.

if enigma is scum with brass, vizzy and ausuka aren't btw

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I don't think that's AI for invis and like my actual reason for putting invis in my lynchpool is at least 50% tone lol

i don't really know his playstyle and i don't really do the tone thing - what i don't like is that i felt like he was bandwagoning onto oka's wagon

@ap - what do you think of vizzy's oka vote?

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Idk what to do with invis. I'll just call him null. Oh well. Back here I guess

VOTE: Enigma

Pedit naa naa naaa i dont hear youuu

townpings from this

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Skitter seems like solid town. She's working really hard for town cred if she's scum and I think the way she approaches the game is difficult to fake.

Fixed it for you

tyty

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Vulcan and ausuka aren't contributing much,

they don't seem to want to make waves so to speak.

They could be scum.

why do you feel this way?

noting for when i inevitably re-read my iso at some point

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Why is sando on your scum pool tho

If brass is town he's scum. I felt that he agreed with his meta analysis so that he wouldn't analyze him further.
If brass is scum I think Sando is town though. Kind of too obvious buddying there.
And sando picked a low number (4).
I think scum don't want to lose their shot at getting a PR and they would have tried (at least one of them would have) to pick one of the low numbers.

i don't really agree with your brass-sando thing as explained above

also i think everyone wants a pr so i don't think picking a low number is inherently ai - like yes there's prob scum in the low numbers but like i don't think that's a reason to scumread someone in particular; i can easily apply that reasoning to {ausuka, brass, you, enigma, cj, sando, ofrhz}, which is literally half the game. i wouldn't really use that as a reaosn to scumread anyone in that group

--

Spoiler:

Don't need to take my vote off, it's not doing anything bad where it is right now, don't like the Oka wagon,

and spending more effort defending myself than scumhunting.

Oh yeah and I'm also skeptical of people already trying to counterwagon enigma when I'm like still questioning him and he's close to getting prodded

Soz real life, it was one day ... and if I were to flip (town) what would you say about the counter wagon then?

Also, its 14 game days. I disappear for one night (which I will do whenever I want to), IMO it's perfectly fine and even beneficial for people to keep playing the game and not just tunnelling and waiting for my availability.

I feel like the "semi-RVS" vote is kind of a scumtell

and like simultaneously defending it as rational but also writing it off as not scum-indicative because it was RVS

As you wish, not sure any further explanation will convince a few people on the wagon otherwise.

There is rationality behind it as I explained, and it's not a scum indicative. It's the first post, and I'm also not sure what scum would achieve by jumping on the wagon .... were we going to quick lynch??

meh reaction to the wagon

ok i'll bite - why are you linking game-theory wrt your rvs vote?
--

If L1 is a possibility maybe we should talk about claims since they're weird in this setup

I'm currently thinking:
- Don't cc fakeclaims in general, I think there are a lot of cases where we decide to lynch a claim regardless of whether it's true or not
- When claiming vt, only say what you tried to pick if it actually benefits town

Thoughts?

i feel like both of these things are too context-dependant to be able to make a general rule

like if you're a vig and someone fake-claims that you just shoot them. if you're a cop outing might be a bad idea. if you're like a neighborizer and you know that they're lying claiming might be a good idea in that instance

hypo-innos are a good idea

idk about claiming rb'd - if there's a scum rb and they know they didn't rb you they now know you aren't the cop, and if they did rb and you post a hypoinno they also know you aren't a cop. i think it makes things even more confusing than they have to be.

but then i suppose if someone was actually the cop and posted a hypo-inno but were actually rb'd they'll give people a false-clear when/if they flip. and if you are actually that role and you announce that were rb'd you're kinda telling scum that you're yes in fact a rb'able role if the rb is scum

basically not sure, need to think about the rb'ing thing a bit more

--

ok this is getting long and sleep is nice, i'll pick up here tomorrow

[skitter30]

were you just like sitting in wait for that lol?

---

OF COURSE! : ] ~tw

[skitter30]

@ruru.@Oka: Can we like.. shut this conversation about claims off?

If I was scum I would have loved you both for the amount of ideas you're giving me.

P.S. I am now leaning town on Oka, I'm more inclined to believe it's his argumentative playstyle that's annoying me, but I can certainly see the town motive behind his play, and I think it bad for scum!him to do this.

UNVOTE:

pinging me

--

Let's go about it a different way.
Town talks about one of the scum's meta and is pretty accurate. How do you imagine scum responds to that? I see 3 options.
A) disagree and argue that it is not correct
B) ignore
C) agree

honestly i think he could have just ignored it and moved on without anyone really noticing or commenting on it.

i don't really understand your sando read tbh. like i don't get how you reached the conclusion 'sando is deliberately trying to discourage brass from thinking about him too much'; i think he was just acknolwedging that brass was correct and i don't think there was much scum motivation therein, or at least, i don't think it's much scummier than just ignoring him. i feel like you've kinda blown this out of proportion abit

If there's another option please enlighten me. But basically A and B suck for scum. They will likely bring a lot of suspicion on them. The person with the meta read would definitely pursue it at a minimum even if others ignore it.

And judging by past games if a past game is linked to prove that the scum player does play the way the town player suggested then that is probably going to end up lynching the scum.

i don't think that sando was going to get lynched because brass correctly said that sando doesn't agree to have all three scum pick the same number; if anything he was pointing out a reason to not-scumread his draftpick.

like the bolded is kinda a stretch imo and i don't think was going to be an immediate precipitate for sando being lynched

--

im going to actually have to agree here with the folks on the enigma wagon that enigma's refusal to take his semi-rvs vote off or make a case against bujaber is fishy. furthermore enigma's admission to not really scumhunting is throwing me for a loop here, we are 16 pages in soo

enigma is town because how the wagon formed is scummy as hell

ok, which is it?

and if there's scum on the wagon who is it?

--

Then we fundamentally disagree. Ignoring it is terrible.

Also why do people always do that with me. Just because you are claiming I have misread you doesn't mean you have to disagree with every point I make.

I'm right about this. And you agreeing with me about it doesn't automatically make you scum.

i think you're scumreading him for having a differece in playstyle from you and not for anything like actually ai imo.

i'm basically trying to decide now if you like actually believe that this is a good reason to scumread him or if you're like trying to find reasons to scumread him

--

svs is engima scum and enigma wagon is also scum

What changed between 392 and now?

he's answering the following question from bujaber; i don't think this post announces a change in position

When y'all are saying SvS you mean scum is on the enigma wagon and enigma is scum?

--

Skitter since I think you're town and I value your opinion

, when you get to it comment on my scumpool.

I understand you don't like some of my reasoning wrt to draft picks and Sando, but I've done more sorting since then and when you take the entire process into account Sando becomes part of the pool even if by PoE only because I haven't seen enough for a TR.

And in fact the latest stuff from him is good because it's a lot more black and white. Like he is either overreacting to my lonely vote because he's town and rightfully getting offended or because he's defensive scum lashing out. Pretty much has to be one or the other unlike posting vague general stuff that is hard to intepret. Ehem ehem like a few people in this game (and on this site).

I'm hoping with more posts from her I can figure out which it is.

a) so things like the bolded are low-key making me think you're trying to buddy me tbh

b) i think i explained my position on your sando scumread above, lmk if you need me to elaborate. tldr i don't see scum-motivation in that post and i think that you're at best scumreading him for having a different playstyle/game philosphy than you and that at worst you're trying to find reasons to scumread him

c)

{Vulcan, ausuka, brass, enigma, sando}

Could go either way: {AP, invisibility, skygazer}

i would take sky out for now as i'm low-key townleaning her;

i'm roughly null on ausuka, sando, ap;
nullscum on vizzy,
scum on enigma;
vulcan and brass are somewhere between nullscum and and null.

i don't think we're like ready to have the day end yet but i'd put everyone below null in a tentative lynchpool.

i don't know where to put you right now
--

really? i kinda got the vibe that he couldn't be bothered to make up a reason and that he hopped on cuz other people are doing it.

Does this really happen though? Like I don't think mafia ever think "lol i dont care enough to make up a reason so ill just hop on this wagon here lol", unless it would be odd for them specifically I think they'd just try to justify their actions. I don't think it takes much effort to make up a reason to scumread someone, especially if that player is scummy enough to get wagoned.

i feel like he didn't know where to vote and he saw people voting there so he just hopped on

--

Hi
If I don’t unvote oka now I will deathtunnle until the ends of time
I now have no scumreads
I’ll make a PoE pool when I get home

is death-tunneling a thing you usually do?

--

@Mod my fiancee and I just broke up, I'm going to be a mess for a few days, just replace me please.

i'm really sorry to hear that and i hope that you're ok :)

--

@skitter/ceejay/anyone else who's played with him do you have a good read on sando yet?

so he's one of those players that i have a hard time reading because they have a very rational playstyle that i tend to want to townread for just making sense (and like i scumread him and kinda mislynched him, oops, last game for pushing something that didn't make sense to me)

beyond the 'just making sense' bit i don't think he's done much ai or hard to fake either way

early game i felt he was more cage-y than usually but that might have been a leadup to his v/la with his gf so idk if that's ai; i haven't really felt that way since he came back

or tldr null because i don't know if he's done much ai either way

--

yay real-time again

aside i usually say i'm v/la saturdays but have usually been around saturday night in the past; i'm really v/la saturdays now; don't expect much from me till sunday in general

[skitter30]

@ruru.@Oka: Can we like.. shut this conversation about claims off?

If I was scum I would have loved you both for the amount of ideas you're giving me.

P.S. I am now leaning town on Oka, I'm more inclined to believe it's his argumentative playstyle that's annoying me, but I can certainly see the town motive behind his play, and I think it bad for scum!him to do this.

UNVOTE:

pinging me

What do you think about 184-186 btw?

low-key surprised that i'm the person he decided to sheep; i don't think he's townreading me that strongly or anything

i was kinda wondering if he was just waiting for someone else to vote so he could sheep them
--

skitter - too much text to read. her analysis seems to ping-pong places (e.g. liking the draft analysis by brass, but then also stating that draft speculation is bad). Also, things such as obvtown based on meta just don't feel the best sometimes - I feel town would be a bit more cautious.

whoops, sorry; i always tell myself i'll catch up in chunks but then never do; i try to keep my posts readable tho so sorry you haven't felt they were

i liked brass's draft analysis because i liked the degree of thought he put into it and the degree of nuance that post exhibited. i'm not saying that draft speculation is broadly bad so much as noting that i think play >>>> draft and that it oughtn't form the basis of reads.

i think ruru's hilariously out of her scumrange and i've correctly read her that way on like page 3 of the last game i played with her

--

@enigma im getting the impression that orfhz doesn't want to get his/her hands dirty, you?

what do you mean by this?

--

Cawdi

hi!!!!

--

okay engima, what's the deal with your vote still? is bujaber still your top scumread? I'm not seeing any indication of you trying to figure out BuJaber. Are you doubling down?

No, don't think Bujaber is super scummy actually. Wasn't a fan of your wagon.

I think it is a bit of a lost cause and a distraction starting a brand new wagon on others, especially in my position.

I could be convinced about an Invisibility vote but to be honest, I got a bit busy trying to respond to questions and defend myself than actively scum-hunting (outside of those who were engaging with me).

Lets just do an UNVOTE:

kinda townie actually

you're not really feeling that survivalistic tbh; i kinda think that scum here would be trying to find an alternate wagon to jumpstart and that's not really happening here imo

Also, I feel new wagons (e.g. Invis) at this point are not looking good and a sign of disassociation with scum on my wagon. Will discuss later

can you elaborate on this please?

[skitter30]

i guess more what i meant is why you think ofrhz is exhibiting that behavior?

[skitter30]

because she seems to be asking questions and making comments but not really pushing anything hard

i think that's playstyle indiciative, not alignment indicative

--

This really looks like tvt

yeah it's basically each scumreading the other for playing the game differently from themselves

i'm kinda tuning them out now tbh; i don't think this discussion is

a) going to change the other's mind

b) going to convince other people to join one side or the other

--

That's also what I was wondering

I also find it notable that he's hard-townreading me when like he has a history of scumreading me for no reason and it would be pretty risky for him to do that as scum because I also have a history of violently omgusing him

are you talking about brass's game? or some other game? iirc he scumread you pretty hard in the beginning of brass's game but i don't remember all the details

so i guess what's bothering me is that he was being cage-y about his reads and sheeped the very next vote so idk if that's like a real scumread he had that he felt was reinforced/validated when i voted there too, or if he thought it was a push that would gain traction cuz i voted there

that's partly why i switched off a little bit thereafter - i had two people sheeping my vote who hadn't really indicated beforehand that they like actually scumreading oka, and ap's vote was flat-out sheeping me and vizzy's was just like 'i isod there and he pings me' or something

the thing is that that sequence of posts i can kinda see him making as town tho, especially on his rp alt

i have a pretty good track record of reading him as both town and scum actually and i still need some more from him to figure it out; i dont really feel like he's in the game yet; he's not even doing those bad puns he makes sometimes

--

@enigma how important is your role for town?

i feel like this is kinda premature

--

i was kinda wondering if he was just waiting for someone else to vote so he could sheep them
--

Come on, skitter. You know me better than that. I do not "sheep" as scum,

unless I wanted to appear like I had nothing to do with the lynch.

Here I clearly said I was seeing something that bothered me, so I'd be taking he initiative and vote first if I was scum (yeah, self-meta sucks.. whatever)

yes, i'm aware, and that's why i'm a little bit sketchy on this vote - here you had a bit of a back-and-forth with oka but you didn't really say you were scumreading him till i did.

i guess the question is whether or not you thought the oka wagon would/could gain enough momentum to become a lynch, which i suppose is kinda unlikely given that you were like the third vote on page 8 or whatever; and whether you thought that vote would slip by unnoticed

--

I'm back after a prod and fully caught up. At this point, I am town reading ofrhz and okapoka on tone.

Ruru's claim has me townslotting her for the moment. It makes sense for meta reasons.

Skygazer: nullish to town. @skygazer, my "peppered in" paranoia of Ceej is warranted. He really isn't usually this townie as town. I have my eye on him, but, of course, that's a shit reason to sumread him.

No scumleans so far, sorry.

these reads are kinda meh after catching up on a 20 page game tbh

i'll reserve judgement till you do those iso's tho, assuming you do them soon-ish since there's very little content from your slot thus far

and your cj vote is also meh given that cj was like one of two townreads you had thsi game and i don't think his play has changed drastically between your last post and this post

--

i could have sworn i responded
i was going to say i was waiting for a vulcan prod
VOTE: ceejay

are you just voting people based on activity?

--

VOTE: vulcan logician

im not liking this play coming from vulcan

he is being lazy but sheepy

But does lazy/sheepy= scum? And aren't there other reasons for hopping onto a wagon other than sheepiness? (For instance, being curious how Ceej might respond to pressure. And seeing an opportunity to create momentum on a ceej wagon).

i guess i'm jsut confused why you're voting based on pressuring your townread instead of like using your vote to do like ... something useful from your pov given that you don't seem to have lost the townread

this cj mini-wagon is kinda icky tbh

--

anyway now i can do this
UNVOTE:
VOTE: AP

or just throwing down random lol-votes?

i really don't understand your thought process for like any of these votes

--

Spoiler:

Explanation unclear. Ended up looking for the dynamics of a wagon.

Spell it out for me because I'm a bit dum.

i just want to say that this is funny lol

[skitter30]

Also, I feel new wagons (e.g. Invis) at this point are not looking good and a sign of disassociation with scum on my wagon. Will discuss later

can you elaborate on this please?

@engima please

[skitter30]

@skitter30 what isnt playstyle indicative and is alignment indicative for you

i guess a general tenet of how i play is that if i know player X behaves in a certain scummy way as town, it's silly to scumread them for that because that's how they usually play; i usually classify something like that as either a towntell or nai

in a general sense, yes, making general observations and not pushing things to hard may be scum indicative, but it's inline with how i know ofrhz plays as town so i don't think it's scummy for *them* in this context.

i don't really know how to answer that question better tbh, because it's very context and player-dependant

--

so wrt enigma's draft pick game theory thing

so that paper is trying to solve the unique lowest integer game, where each player tries to get the unique lowest integer.

Spoiler: what that chart says if anyone cares

in game theory there's sort of a back-and-forth between choosing the best strategy in a vacuum and choosing the best strategy given what you think the other players' strategies will be. a nash equilibrium occurs where each player chooses the best strategy given the strategies of all other players

we denote a strategy by pi for 1 <= i <= N, where each pi indicates that you choose i pi of the time. (ie pi is probability distribution and sums to 1)

so that chart denotes what percentage of the time you should choose each number 1-N in order to win the game.

it's not saying the probability that someone else will choose 6 is ~8% of the time given 11 players. It's saying that in your Nash strategy (which will yield the Nash equilibrium), you should choose 6 ~8% of the time.

source: took game theory last term

so basically this is a really long way of saying that you didn't understand that chart correctly

--

i'm kinda thinking this coems from town tbh?

not sure if scum picks based on a paper that they admit that they don't really understand. like it's something i can kinda see someone do by themselves but i'm not sure if a scumteam picks their draft strategy that way?

like i'm trying to imagine entering the scum PT and being like 'hey i read this cool paper that i don't entirely understand and i think we ought to follow the strategy therein' and having people go along with it? i feel like mostly not in this playerlist tbh. at best i feel like the response might be 'you can do that but we'll do ...' whatever alternate strategy the scumteam wants

--

honestly the logic in the RVS post was kinda wonky so I didn't really try to untangle it the first time around it since it's making a bunch of wonky assumptions and leaps of logic that don't really make sense

the thing is that i think the rvs vote made sense to *him* regardless of whether or not it actually follows probability

so going through ti again, as best as i understand his logic there is something like:

-> all players are rational
-> rational players will try to choose a unique number and thus purposefully not double/triple up with each other, even their own scum partners (i disagree that this ought to be an assumption)
-> ???
-> therefore if i'm town in a draft-pair and/or draft-triple the other players in that pair/triple are more likely to be scum

i'm kinda missing the link between those two points and am not sure how he got to the last bit

i think somewhere in there he mixed in the assumption that there's a fixed set of numbers players in this game can choose from like the paper.

also the following quote:

Yeh, but if I understand, your going assumption is that scum chooses three different numbers? This makes it more likely for them to end up choosing the same number as a townie, since scum have coordinated to choose different numbers.

Though if they were smart enough to choose the same numbers for WIFOM fun then I might go sit in a corner after this game

if i'm reading this right + reading his other posts from this evening right he's basically saying he thinks scum would have chosen different numbers from each other (to maximize their chance of getting a low unique number), and that that was the most important thing, even if that makes it more likely they pick the same number as town (which would drop them lower in the draft if they end up in a draft-pair).

this appears to be an underlying assumption in a lot of his posts.

i kinda feel like scum would have talked to their partners about all of this at some point if they were going to use this all of this to pick the draft, and i feel like if they did their logic here wouldn't have then ended up so .... wonky

[skitter30]

i think i want to UNVOTE: for now

[skitter30]

So you think he just googled that paper when he was pressured to defend his vote?

The thing is that I'm kinda seeing those underlying assumptions all the way from the beginning of his iso, like all the way from his first posts - he def was thinking about this along these lines since like his first post imo

I guess with daytalk I kinda imagine what I would do and I would def have discussed my strategy with my partners, but yeah you have a point wrt uglyduck

[skitter30]

i know nothing about cardi b beyond that she like exists and is some sort of singer i think? idk. i'm assuming that this is a role-playing alt

i hate semi-unintellible rp-posting; i find that it makes it a lot harder for me to understand and to sort them

i have like a soulread on who the main might be but i have like no evidence thereof

--

@cardi:

U ever juss wanna... blow up @ a bitch tho?

no, i never juss wanna ... blow up @ a bitch tho

I read oka's ISO and beyond the townie tone, I also don't think scum would interpret enigma's vote on me with such accuracy.

townie WHATT!!

does this mean you agree or disagree with bujaber saying oka is exhibiting a 'townie tone'?

or are you saying that bujaber's post is townie?

@brass: what is the point of going around putting "pressure votes" on people that have never been prodded and have given content in the game and why is it better than scumhunting?

There's plentya tracks u coul be on and this is the wrong one.

this pings me the wrong way

Hokay Im gonna say skitter,AP,ruru,ohrfrz probably town. I think Invinibilty,Skygazer n Engima are all hot maybes. VOTE: OkaPoka is where the shmoney is for me righnow.

can you elaborate on ap and sky?

also i'm not really sure i followed your reasoning on oka - i know you quoted some of his posts but i think i'm doing a bad job interpretting your ... interesting use of punctation, so can you please elaborate?

--

It also looks really messy if scum and scum tend to be more careful.
So this is either intentionally acting like a crazy guy or it's townie behaviour.

yeah this is basically my point, and like i feel like scum usually tries to at least make some amount of sense

AP keeps talking about self meta

and

doesn't seem committed to his votes

. A scumlean there.

the bolded isn't ai in the least for him. i agree with the italics tho

--

this is going to be slightly frustrating trying to read her and invis

hopefully we have some roles that can clear that up

I mean you can still look at her reads and votes and stuff like that and sort her that way. She's not completely obfuscating her play.

yes but it's still not exactly easy to decipher what she's saying, at least to me.

i think that it's entirely possible to strike a balance between rp and being intelligible and that it's at best anti-town to write your posts in such a way that makes it difficult for your fellow players to read it

like the rp thing itself is not ai but keeping it up when people say it's hard for them to read is anti-town and i've seen scum utilize this tactic to avoid having to post real thoughts on the game

hopefully, she'll tone it down a bit when she sees that it's annoying people

and if not there's presumably prs that can hopefully sort her out

[skitter30]

to me enigma is no longer really a viable lynch option. there is a complete and utter lack of any sort of counter to the wagon. scum are content with the gamestate as it is.

Scum got bussed with little resistance d1 in the last game I played

I'm not sure if that's a reason to stop scumreading someone

i agree with ausuka actually; this gamestate is kinda too complacent for a wagon on scum imo; the only time i can think of a gamestate with like no resistance on a scumlynch is like brass's game day1, where all three scum were major lurkers.

unless scum is all like in {enigma, vizzy, vulcan, maybe ap} the gamestate kinda supports town!enigma because it seems scum are chill with this wagon and aren't like trying to do anything about it

like if you think enigma is scum what are the other two scum doing right now?

--

Well I thought that jump came out of nowhere but it's very consistent w your thought processes through your iso so townpoints for that.

I do think counterwagons have been attempted though, you can see Oka, invisibilty, vulcan and brass/cardi and even ceejay catching multiple votes since the enigma wagon started. I do think there's bound to be scum in that group of people but there's also a ton of potential lynchbait in that pile so I think it's very likely that some of those were attempted counterwagons that never gained traction assuming Enigma is scum.

yeah but if enigma was scum i feel like one of the other counterwagons would have gotten *some* sort of momentum; like none of those really took off we've basically had like the same wagon since like page 8 and like nothings really happening.

complacent gamestates are like a major red flag that scum is happy with the gamestate

--

because im not giving a viable reason to scumread enigma while pushing enigma at the same time so it looks like i have a viable reason to claim towncred if enigma flips town but if he flips scum i can be like oh look i knew it.

kinda feel like scum aren't quite so ... blatant and cavalier in lampshading the scum motivation of their posts tbh

--

i'm not sure how many of cardi's posts i actually understood

Hokay Im gonna say skitter,AP,ruru,ohrfrz probably town. I think Invinibilty,Skygazer n Engima are all hot maybes. VOTE: OkaPoka is where the shmoney is for me righnow.

Do "hot maybes" = townleans?

i read 'hot maybes' as scumleans but i could well be wrong

--

honestly i think if he had read the paper in order to find the 'best' number to pick he would have talked about it with his teammates at some point and like some of the assumptions he made like don't really come from a scum mindset imo; like i don't think scum's priority is to not pair up with other scum at the cost of maybe pairing up with townies, which he seems to think is a major assumption; i think scum's goal is to get prs + throw in whatever wifom possible; i don't think scum approach the draft as 'i don't want to pair up with my partners and if in doing so i inadvertantly pair up with a townie that's chill'

yes i agree that the rvs vote was residual from his (mis)-understanding of the paper but i don't that's like inherently ai tbh; i think he thought he saw something that didn't make much sense based on the paper he had (thought he) read but i don't know if that inherently comes from either alignment more than the other
--

i'm trying to figure out where to vote and like the one major wagon isn't really appealing to me right now

i think i want to vote

VOTE: vizzy

cuz i kinda hate all of his votes and like have no idea what he's thinking about the game right now

p-edit: lol that works

--

[skitter30]

ap i'm kinda like waiting for him to do stuff

like i feel like i can read him with content but the longer he doesn't post the more i'm reminded of jungle republic tbh

i'm a little hesitant to join the ap thing tho cuz vizzy's lolvote is sitting on him and like none of vizzy's votes feel *real* or like he's voting someone he actually found scummy; i feel like he just decided this was a good place to votepark

[skitter30]

hah i stole duckling's pagetop lolz

[skitter30]

i've played with a bunch of people this game, specifically: ruru, ofrhz, ap, sando, ausuka, brass (+ cardi b if she's who i think she is), bujaber, and cj

i can read ruru + ofrhz + ap pretty well on meta

[skitter30]

meta factors into the read for sando + brass too a bit but not nearly as strongly

[skitter30]

like your eally think they're off-wagon and and like allowing a lynch on their partner go through without even getting the towncred of being on the wagon? i don't really think scum think that way and deliberately stay off wagon while letting their partner get lynched

i can't speak of 723 and 728 until/unless i actually go and check them out

iirc 1859 correctly there were no major wagons till the drixx thing; i don't remember there being a signifcant wagon on you before then; checking the vcs you got up to two votes for a while but like two votes on day 1 in a 9 player game is different from 6 votes day1 in a 14 player game

in my recent games:

-> jungle republic; wagon formed on scum and then on town!me and town!esp as a counter, ultimately esp's went through as a fairly low-resistance lurker lynch; i was like the only person protesting and i was the counterwagon

-> brass's open; end of day wagons were all three on scum and scum were basically lurkers and couldn't/didn't do anything about it

-> newbie 1872; math's lurker wagon was the main wagon of the day and ultimately went through; a newbie got coerced to lolhammer and there was no competing wagon iirc

i really really don't think this gamestate points to a scum!wagon tbh

it's too complacent; if it's on scum and scum didn't want it to happen i think there would have been a push somewhere else as a counterwagon and literally no other wagon has taken off; and if scum were bussing i feel like there would be more momentum on this wagon since i think scum would be trying to get the towncred of pushing a scumflip

like it's a 14 player game and we've had the same wagon for like 20 pages with like no counter and it doesn't really feel right to me

p-edit unless like the whole scumteam is lurker scum like i don't understand what scum are doing right now if this is a wagon on scum

[skitter30]

i mean i think that's basically what's happening; scum were chill with enigma but it's momentum kinda fell apart

if enigma's scum that strongly points to lurker scum, probably in like {vulcan, vizzy, maybe ap} or something

if enigma is town i think scum are just complacent and happy with the engima wagon and didn't care to do anything about it since it wasn't on one of their own

[skitter30]

idk; i tend to have a pretty good sense about this sort of thing; the only time i really remember being *wrong* about a wagon and/or gamestate based read is brass's game; i said i thought the draynth wagon didn't feel like a wagon on scum since there wasn't enough resistance to it and it turns out the competing wagons were all on scum and they were all lurkers

and that's why i'm noting the lurker possibility here, but even in brass's game there were in fact competing wagons, albeit on the rest of the scumteam

and even if you reached l2 that's kinda my point - it didn't stay that way long; not long enough for me to remember it or for it to even be reflected in the vcs

i can kinda see the oka/enigma thing given that oka was shading the wagon much earlier on, but i also think a lot of his recent posts are kinda townie; i also feel like 706 is weird to come from a partner tbh

[skitter30]

I'm back! Too many flights!

So I get what skitter is saying about the Enigma wagon, not sure I agree, but the principle is sound. Not sure why she doesn't follow through with the analysis and look into the people involved or not involved in the wagon. Strikes me as a very long and roundabout way to say "Enigma is town" rather than actually scumhunting. See her points about scum being happy with gamestate...doesn't progress the gamestate.

a) *things that i can't say right now*.

idk, sometimes i just get a better sense of a player's alignment based on how people are acting around them, and not from how they're actually behaving themselves, and resistance to wagon or complacency to a wagon speaks volumes if you know how to read that

b) and like, that's why i decided to hop off - it was stagnating and wasn't really going anywhere, which is why i'm now trying to vote elsewhere to see if that will pick up.

wrt scum on the wagon i'm townreading ruru and to a certain extent cj, and ofrhz's vote made a lot of sense to me in that context, so if there were scum on it i think it's in {ausuka, sky}

what do you think about invisibility?

--

Has anyone actually given a reason why brass is town? Or is it just y'all feel enigma/whoever is scummier?

I think Invis is a lazy wagon for day 1. I'm starting to think he's harder to sort than Not_Mafia and that is no easy task by itself. Most of the time it's pure guess work and I'm saying this while considering myself moderately experienced in playing with NM.

i liked brass's *very* early posts regarding the draft analysis but i haven't really seen much ai from him either way beyond not really liking his pressure vote on ausuka and vizzy (vizzy = invisibility); and then of course he repped out and cardi repped in

i get what you're saying with vizzy; maybe we should let pr's sort him out? i guess the way you feel about vizzy is kinda how i feel about cardi; it's very very hard for me to read her with the roleplaying thing

but i guess the difference between like vizzy and cardi is that cardi i can at least see her putting effort into solving the game and i can tell that she's thinking about what she's writing (even if i don't understand it), and she hasn't posted since her catchup so idk if she'll tone it down or not; atm voting her would feel akin to a policy vote to me tbh and i feel like ... there's better places for my vote tbh

and vizzy is just lolvoting and voteparking based on 'gut pings' and i don't really see him trying to sort people like at all.

can you give me a tldr on why you dislike brass? is it still just a gut/meta read that he's more confident as scum than as town? beyond that and the sando-distancing thing i'm not really sure why else you're scumreading him tbh

in {cardi, vulcan, and enigma} i'm not really feeling cardi right now and the gamestate supports town!engima i think

i could join you on vulcan if that became a thing; i feel like they're posting to just ... post if that makes sense? like they keep making a production about catching up and how they're going to iso people but that isn't really happening; and their isos of half the game were kinda bland with lots of nulls

it feels like active lurking to me; or like scum who doesn't really know what to post or where to push; there's quite a lot of content for someone to engage with catching up on like a 20 page game and they're just ... not; instead they're just promising content but it's not really happening

--

AP always looks like scum though

Invis looked like town in my last game with him

idk I see invis as town getting mislynched really often.

links?

--

Seriously though

ruru is 100% town to me.
ofrhz and Oka are next level town
I think Enigma might be town

Everyone else is more or less "in the mix", and while I don't have an explicit scum read yet I might be inclined to pressure the lower numbers (outside of those I think are town already), so Sky > Vulcan > Vizzy > Skitter ... etc

are you really just suspecting people based on their draft order? that's honestly kinda a lazy way to analyze the game; you're not really taking into account people's behavior since the draft pick

[skitter30]

To be honest, the vote I would get behind today would be Invisibility. The lack of association with other players, ignoring my wagon (scum buddies already on it) completely,

posting votes with zero meaning or significance to slip under the radar, no scumhunting effort really, entire read of players being null + voting AP despite reading him null,

etc. etc. the list goes on.

I don't like BuJaber, SkyGazer or Oka directions (for today). Cardi B lynch will provide no useful information at all today. Vulcan a null. Could be convinced on AP.

VOTE: Invisibility

PS: if he flips red, me feels SvS with AP.

who do you think is scum on your wagon? why do you think AP + vizzy?

and yeah the bolded is basically the problem that i'm having with vizzy - i feel like he's lolvoting and setting down random votes that don't really seem to indicate an intent to sort the vote-ee; i feel more like he's looking for places to vote that won't cause super much controversy; he's like voting nulls but isn't interacting with them in anyway otherwise and he changes them at a drop of a hat without following up with the people he's voting

--

Invisibility in my lynchpool fo sho.

I think Enigma's vote just now says there's one scum in those two.

I generally prefer Enigma over Invisibility though.

Skitter/AP/Cardi/CJ are firmly in my not-lynch today.
Enigma/Invis/Vulcan/BuJaber are my happy to lynch today, in no particular order.
Everyone else I need more convincing or less time on the clock to get a lynch out of me.

why the bolded?

i think your argument with bujaber is indicative of a difference in playstyles tbh; i think he legitimately found you agreeing with brass to be scummy which is why he kept on harping on about it; it kinda reminded me of when i get tunneled on something and won't drop it and just keep arguing it do death even

and wrt ap's jovial nature i'm honestly kinda reminded of jungle republic here where he did very little for most of day1 and didn't really push anyone; most of his posts that day were jokes or memes or just kinda being there

--

I aint heard of TI or TK?

these are ToS terms i think

ti = town investigavitve (think cop)
tk = town killer (think vig)

--

If theres anything about oka I can help u wit lemme know.

with oka i'm a little bit conflicted

i don't like that he's cool with a lynch on enigma (who he thinks is town) just to get a flip; it feels a little bit opportunistic and trying-to-take-advantage-of-a-wagon-y to me, especially since he hates the original enigma-wagon composition; like being chill with an info-lynch on someone you townread is kinda meh

however some of his posts i'm kinda townreading cuz i think they don't really come from scum; like 706 feels kinda ... blatant; it's almost lampshading how scum might be trying to position themselves here and i feel like scum doing that wouldn't really highlight themselves doing that;

--

AP, I seen this guy around, I dont think he likes lyin all thah much. N he keepin his cards close to his tiddies but I think when he scum he more comfortable when he's tryna push stuff. I hope u get me.

Would this be common knowledge or knowledge cardi might be expected to have (@skitter)?

uh i guess that depends on who cardi is?

if she's who i think she is yeah she's played some games with ap

if not idk; it depends on what her ap history is

idk if this is how i would classify ap either; like i don't know if 'cards close to his chest' is wholly accurate; like i played a game with him where he lolclaimed a pr on like page 6 as town knowing full well he'd get nk'd that night; he was a bg it made sense in context tho

he's kinda go-with-the-flow-y and will change his approach based on the game and the particular setup; he's very setup-minded and even though i tend to disagree with how he approaches setup spec he puts a lot of thought into it

i don't think i've ever seen him hard-push anyone as scum on his own initiative tbh; i've played two iterations of jungle republic with him where he was scum in both. in the first he tunneled on me in retaliation for town!me tunneling scum!him; he was very confident there; in the second town!me caught him for *not* pushing anything as scum

in the second towngame i played with him he loltunneled you i think. i don't remember what he did the first towngame tbh; it was like in january and i'd have to check that game

i agree with 'don't like lying too much' for the most part

--

I think I'm here right now (town to scum):

skitter, bujaber, ceejay, ruru, okapoka
sando, AP
skygazer, vulcan, enigma
ausuka, cardi, invis

ofrhz i liked your enigma vote and how you approached ruru way back when but since then i've been kinda looking for that 'bleeds town as town' thing you do and i'm not really seeing it :/

--

@skitter - yeah it is mostly gut. But his ISO seems lacking. Brass might doubt himself a lot as town but he scumhunts and jumps on/creates wagons. I just see him overly discussing the draft, making too many 'jokes', randomly voting and unvoting people for 'pressure'.
As for Cardi maybe her posts will get better but a lot of her posts were basically just gut or disagreeing with someone's opinioms but there's very little reasoning in her disagreement.

i think i only actually played one game with brass actually; i don't know his meta too well so i can't really judge him on that

tbf to brass he did leave at the endish of rvs so discussing the draft + jokes i don't have much trouble with; i agree that the pressure votes were kinda meh

actually i liked this evening's post from cardi a lot more and found it alot more intelligible than her catchup

@cardi i do appreciate that you made your post easier to read

@enigma - brass lynch is more informative than you think. T

here is definitely at least 1 scum that made up a fake reason not to vote for brass. If he flips town you look for ones that sound like they knew he was town and if he flips scum you look for ones that sound like they knew he was scum.

Also I'm town so if brass is town also they don't want to seem too eager to join the wagon, they'll take it slow because they want to try and spin it later to get me lynched too. If brass is scum they don't want to bus too early and attract attention or encourage town to join and risk him getting hammered.

i mean, can you point to any such people that you think are confident that brass's slot is town and/or scum?

this reasoning doesn't really seem brass-specific to me if that makes sense

overall i just don't really see what you see in brass; like i don't explicitly townread him but none of the reasons you're offering to scumread him are reallly that compelling to me either

[skitter30]

Hi I am vla and will be back Monday

[skitter30]

ok i'm back, yay

going through things topically

==========

ruru's flip

given that she claimed pgo and flipped jk, there's several possibilities wrt to what happened last night. i think she basically claimed pgo in the hopes that scum wouldn't want to chance visiting her last night; and that a town!vig, if they existed, wouldn't have shot her

1. there's a town vig who shot her for claiming something they knew to false; in that case we seem to be missing the scum nk; in that case there's prob a doc who protected someone (and that person is mechanically prob town), or there's a rb who rb'd the killer (and that person is mechanically prob scum). if you're a vig who did this i think you ought to claim given that you're basically a vt at this point, and sharing your action would clarify what happened last night. if that happens and you're a doc you prob don't claim today (crumb somewhere maybe?). if you're a rb i'm not sure. you have a quasi-guilty but you prob get nk'd after you claim. need to think about what to do but i guess this is only relevant if a vig claims anyways so i'll think more about it if that eventuality comes to pass

2. scum have the pgo/vig slot and knew she was lying so just nk'd her since they knew she was town and prob had a strong pr, and knew that town prs were unlikely to protect her given the claim. also if scum had the vig i think they would have shot her and also nk'd someone else for two nks last night; that doesn't seem to have happened so that would imply pgo imo (actually now i think about it i suppose it's also possible that there is a scum-vig and a doc healed the nk or that one of two killers got rb'd; i don't know how we'd differentiate these cases from 1 above; if a vig doesn't come forward at all we'll know that this probably isn't a thing to worry about anyways).

either way if scum had that slot, they would have known she was lying. i think they would prob have tried to push her knowing that she was fake-claiming; the people who were pushing her early game before she (more traditionally) obvtowned are suspicious imo here, especially those pushing for a pl

3. scum don't have pgo/vig + town!pgo and/or town! vig exists (but didn't shoot her) - that would imply that scum thought she was a pgo but decided to risk it on the chance that she wouldn't activate - i think this is kinda unlikely given that scum had just lost a member; i feel like they wouldn't want to take a chance on this.

so i think in the absence of a vig claim it's probably the middle option, most probably that scum has pgo.

=========

i thought we were going to do hypo-innos today?

=========

Invisibility (8) ~ ruru, skitter30, Enigma, OkaPoka, Cardi B, ofrhz, ceejayvinoya, AP,

wrt to the vizzy wagon - there's very likely scum on that wagon imo; it went through way too easily and i'm sure scum would have wanted the towncred from bussing

wrt the votes on the wagon:

enigma -> i kinda like this vote actually; i kinda like the points he raised about vizzy. also he was coming back from being absent from the thread for a bit and he placed his vote on vizzy in a way that kinda kick-started the vizzy wagon; the wagon hadn't really taken off before he came back and i don't know if a partner returns to the thread and places a vote on a partner there when he could have voted like ... anywhere else

oka -> earlier in the game had scumread vizzy and was scumreading him for doing nothing and wanted to wagon him, then took him out of the lynchpool (to leave to tis/tks to sort) but when me + ruru started the vizzy thing he wanted to do ap or vulcan instead but then hopped on after enigma did. this kinda reads like he wasn't sure if he wanted to join the wagon but decided to hop on when it became a thing; this is kinda scum-indicative imo given the redflip

cardi -> kinda meh? in her catchup she quoted ofrhz saying that vizzy's behavior isn't ai and listed him as a maybe townlean a bit later on and then basically votes him as a pressure vote it seems in 786 ('if theres more to get from this lil dude I wanna see it.') i can see this as a bussing vote; i don't really see anywhere that she was scumreading him

ofrhz -> also meh. seemed to hop on since a wagon was happening and didn't seem bothered by the fact that one of his other major scumreads had just voted there like two posts before

cj -> basically naked l-1, but he had been telegraphing a scumread there for a while and this seems to kinda fit his playstyle tbh

AP -> that hammer without asking for a claim or anything was honestly gross but i think in this context it more likely than not comes from town? from 806 it seems to me that he conflated cj and vizzy and thought vizzy had placed himself at l-1 and like ... i don't know if scum confuses their scum partner with someone else? like the hammer itself was anti-town but i don't really think it comes from scum here given the redflip. he's also like very aware of gamestates and what his partners are up to in general and idk i don't think he forgets who his partner is tbh


=========

ok need to do things irl but i'm going to start going through this dayphase when i get back later

also need to go through vizzy's iso at some point

[skitter30]

ok need to do things irl but i'm going to start going through this dayphase when i get back later

realistically this isn't happening today, apologies; i'll be around tomorrow at some point

[skitter30]

(bleh. in a bit of a depression thing atm and i don't really have it in me rn to talk you lot out of this)

I'm neighbourizer and through PoE from my neighbor's claim we discovered that there has to be a Vig/PGO in AP/Skitter/Oka/Vulcan which means that one of those players would know that a ruru kill would be safe

We think that Oka and Vulcan are town, though, and that AP would've used their one-shot last night

ok, i believe the sky/ausuka neighbor thing i think; i had read 941 and actually thought that was a cop soft with an inno on ausuka

so basically you think that scum knew that ruru wasn't pgo since they had gotten that slot, and since ausuka failed to get it there must be a vig/pgo in ap/me/oka/vulcan, and that it's me?

i agree that scum prob have it, and if ausuka is telling the truth that it must be in that pool, but lol at me picking it; i honestly can't imagine a scenario where i go for that slot; wrt pgo i have singularly little faith in my ability to get myself nk'd and don't want to fuck with town prs doing their thing; and vig i find stressful since if i choose the wrong target i killed town (yes i know that's the nature of the role but that's why i don't want to be one)

in the pool of ap/vulcan/oka, why are you guys townreading vulcan and oka?

wrt to those slots:

ap - still having trouble seeing him as scum given the fact that he lol-hammered vizzy and confused him for someone else; i don't think he forgets who his partner is; also i think if he's pgo he prob actiavtes last night and expects to be visited after that hammer but there's no evidence of that happening

oka - his tone overall i think probably comes from town; scum i feel like aren't quite so blunt or lamp-shade-y of the scum motivation inherent in some of his posts; i don't particularly like his vizzy vote tho, since he had wanted it earlier in the day, wanted to wagon ap as the vizzy wagon started, but joined the vizzy wagon as it built up steam

vulcan - thoroughly underwhelmed; i feel like he's active lurking and i don't really know who he's scumreading; like i kinda feel like he's hopping on wagons that someone else is pushing without really adding anything new to the push (cj, card, me); dislike the cj trajectory;

of these individuals, i think i want to vote vulcan the most

VOTE: vulcan

======

VOTE: skitter30

she was voting the enigma wagon + she is focusing on cardi/ofrhz where there's an argument between them (I know there's a term for this but I'm sleepy and can't remember it sorry) + this is good enough of a case for me.

i think i made my stance on the enigma wagon pretty clear

i'm not sure where you think i'm focusing on cardi/ofrhz?

[skitter30]

skitter I'm really sorry to hear that, if you ever need someone with relative anonymity that's struggled with depression in the past to talk to PM me

tyty, it's been a rough couple of days but i think things are looking up

=====

Oka was (still is) just throwing around votes everywhere and just seems generally confused and clueless ... and is easily influenced by the masses, something less likely as scum.

why do you think this is less likely to come from scum?

=====

@skitter

Not really scum reading anyone atm or I'd say so. Nor am I convinced you are scum or anything. Trust me. If I thought someone was scum, I'd be pushing them... but I'm a little unsure right now.

Like I said before, I think that we need to start wagons to generate information... (basically a re-run of Day 1).... We can afford to do this because we hit scum on D1 which bought us a little time. Plus the scum we hit was a lurker, so we can't glean so much from interactions etc. We can collect this sort of info (interactions, voting etc.) by wagoning ppl today. And I don't mind being one of the wagons. So, if folks think that I'm scum, slap a vote on me!

(aside i'm a she)

♫ if you stand for nothing, burr, what will you fall for ♫

you've been doing this for a while: you have no notable scumreads and are just joining wagons as they form; like it's almost like whenever you post and a new wagon started you decide to join it. i don't think you actually have any sort of conviction wrt any of the votes you've made; i feel like you're joining the wagon cuz it's there

there's flipped scum and i def think it's possible to read into how the wagon formed and what he did; idk why you're brushing that off by saying we can't glean much from his flip; that's like a super useful source of info

like you're having wagons for the sake of having wagons but i don't really feel like you're using ur vote as a tool to like ... lynch scum

======

But what if Ausuka did land Vig/PGO and is now gambitting? That would be a very good way to keep the PRs away AND doe her to survive unsuspected for a couple more days.

this is like a thing i can see *you* doing but i don't really think that's ausuka's type

like you've played with her before i'm pretty sure; do you really think this is a thing that she'd do as scum?

=======

i'm townreading skitter, and the case against her seems weak. in general, i don't like the logic of

"there is scum on the enigma wagon" --> "let's look for scum on the enigma wagon,"

which seems to be the bulk of the case against her.

i think the bolded is a very good thought process and the case against me is more that assuming that ausuka is telling the truth there's a pool of people that very likely contains scum!pgo/vig and i'm in that pool

ap makes the most sense here, but i also think he is unlikely to confuse his scumpartner with someone else, unless he was faking that part.

yeah so this is the main reason why i'm thinking he's not scum, because he's pretty game-aware and/or self-aware and ... i have trouble seeing him do this to a partner or scum

the thing is that i don't really have a reason to townread him otherwise from this; he's just kinda around and talking about setup stuff but besides for like his oka push early game he hasn't really pushed anywhere this game; like i don't really see him trying to find scum or like ... do anything

====

Music replaces BuJaber

hello!!!

=====

i kinda doubt that scum in the number 2 spot go for neighborizer tbh

=====

What are you trying to say there, Ceej?

I think he's trying to defame all the slots he can.

ap who's scum?

r u townreading vulcan?

=====

aside i vaguely remember sando asking about bujaber's rep out; i've only played with him the once, in the second-to-last iteration of jungle republic; he was mafia who was getting pressured by a wolf over a long-ish period of time and got fed up with it and ultimately repped out because he didn't want to keep explaining himself over and over again (and then AP repped in and i death-tunneled him )

i have to go back and check bujaber's rep out again both here and there to see how they compare, but in a general sense i've seen him do something similar to this as scum.

=====

I mean, you could hop on my wagon... I got folks accusing me a creepily lurking--even though, in my own defense, I'd point out that I've been active this day cycle. Regardless, my wagon is a viable option at this point with all the sus pointed in my direction. Hop on if you think I'm scummy.

why are you encouraging people to vote you?

i don't really understand what you're trying to do tbh; yes more wagons are nice but like i don't think we're in the stage of the game where we ought to be prioritizing wagons for the sake of wagons; there's enough information out there already to like ... find scum and vote them

=====

sorry to hear that skitter

scum are likely to own vig/PGO slot anyway so whether you would select it as town doesn't really matter here, it's about if you'd select it as scum.

Oka feels towny independent of the draft. Vulcan read for me is just based on the draft. Invis was a goon. Did he go for RB? If yes: it makes sense he's top scum in the draft. If not: why would Vulcan above him take 1shot vig over RB? It only makes sense if Okapoka is the scum RB, but then it should be better to lynch Oka instead. Oka is also notscumvig via draft in that as top scum there doesn't seem to be much reason to take 1s vig? The vig has to choose between killing ML bait or getting PoEd so it's not very strong. I don't think it makes sense to choose PGO.

You went through the invis votes and singled out Cardi and ofrhz iirc?

tyty

i went through all the votes on the wagon, not just cardi and ofrhz in that post

i'm not entirely following ur logic i think, especially since we don't actually know what vizzy went for; i think ur starting from the assumption that he went for rb and failed, which idk if is actually a safe assumption - he could have gone for like jk or something; at this stage it's kinda hard for us to tell; like i think jk is also a fairly reasonable pick for scum to try for

i think at this point it's reasonable to assume that the pgo/vig is scum given that nobody's claimed it, so scum has: a) vizzy who failed to get his pick, and b) scum!vig/pgo in that group of 5 people

if vizzy was top-pick in the draft, he prob goes for rb or jk imo.

another thing to think about is that if he was contiguous in the draft with a partner (ie two scum in a row in the draft), the top scum might not have tried for the power scum pr role (as top scum would do in a situation where they are not contiguous) - they have a second pick just after. like here they basically have two tries to get those good roles in a row, so *between the two of them* they have two tries basically at the same time so either/or of the two could have tried to get it, not just top scum

like ur clearing vulcan based on: if vizzy didn't pick rb it doesn't make sense that vulcan went for pgo/vig in that specific scenario when we don't know what vizzy picked; like if scum is {vizzy/vulcan} it's possible that vulcan went for pgo/vig and vizzy went for jk or something

i'm having trouble explaining this well; lmk if i didn't get that across well and i'll explain again

also this pgo/vig thing means that we have two scum who went for the high-number strategy, which is interesting

(yeah i think it's reasonable to assume pgo/vig is scum given that nobody claimed it)

[skitter30]

ap makes the most sense here, but i also think he is unlikely to confuse his scumpartner with someone else, unless he was faking that part.

yeah so this is the main reason why i'm thinking he's not scum, because he's pretty game-aware and/or self-aware and ... i have trouble seeing him do this to a partner or scum

the thing is that i don't really have a reason to townread him otherwise from this; he's just kinda around and talking about setup stuff but besides for like his oka push early game he hasn't really pushed anywhere this game; like i don't really see him trying to find scum or like ... do anything

[skitter30]

idk, i have a hard time seeing him forget who his partner is based on prior games i've played with him; and i don't think he faked that

that's really the only town-indicative thing he's done tho imo

[skitter30]

i actually really disliked that post from him since it looks like he's kinda shading you for questioning vulcan's activity but as far as i can tell he's not even townreading vulcan or anything, so it's strange to frame your observation as you 'defaming' vulcan when you hadn't attached an alignment-indicative meaning to that behavior yet

and it's also strange for him to imply that you've made a pattern of shading people because i don't really see you doing that anywhere

[skitter30]

every other post orfhz makes me want to lynch him/her and the other half makes me think obv!town

.................lol

go take it up with the mod. there aren't supposed to be any mid-game alignment changes in this setup

lol.

1110 was kinda that bleeding-town sort of post that i'm looking for

=====

i think ap's hammer was intentional but i think he thought vizzy had placed himself at l1 when it was cj who had cast that vote.

=====

Skitter is outside her town-play, but I don't know whether to put that down to IRL issues or scum. I very much doubt Skitter would ever use IRL as an excuse for in-game advantage in being read, so I think I'm happy for her to carry that question mark for a while and judge later.

i realized after i posted about the irl stuff that people might think that i was trying to use that as an excuse or something since the timing coincided with me being pushed, which was not my intention. i wasn't trying to get people to give me a pass or anything or to gain an advantage, but kinda just saying why posting was hard for me just then and nowish still in a very general sense, not localized to what was happening in this game.

and i apologize if it seems like i was trying to do that; that was not my intent.

like if you think i'm scummy vote me. and if i get lynched that's on me cuz i didn't play well. don't give me a pass for my play cuz of irl stuff

=====

wrt vulcan i kinda agree with you, that they're being almost conspicuously scummy, if that makes sense?

something occurred to me last night which is making me hesitant to want to vote them right now tho

UNVOTE:

Hmmm, my 3 favourite wagons are all going at the same time. I think, surprisingly, I'm gonna jump on the AP wagon. I felt D1 was pretty town from AP meta-wise, but not so much with the D2. The posts are markedly less content driven and they're also skirting the edge of misinformation with the PGO/Vig hypothesising.

so i still don't think his meta was ever really townie here; it actually reminds me a lot of jungle republic where he active-lurked by posting jokes and setup spec and memes; here he hasn't really posted content or pushed anyone or really done anything besides hammering vizzy. he's just kinda here and around and like i don't know what he's thinking about anything this game tbh

i dislike that he was implying ausuka may have like about being vanilla after going for pgo/vig because i don't really think that's a play she makes as scum tbh and i think he's played with her enough to know that

i want him to respond to his wagon but i think i'm probably going to be voting there

[skitter30]

VOTE: ap

l-1

i don't think anyone said anything about not liking your gut, so i'm not sure what you mean by that.

multiple people have raised concerns about your play this game and you're not doing anything to alleviate those concerns by meming with tw and asking why you're a good lynch.

i feel like if you had any sort of conviction about like anything this game you'd be sharing your thoughts here instead of like ... not

[skitter30]

i don't cc; i'll claim if people think i ought to

*Sigh*

I'm the bloody Doctor! I was on Sky last night because I also thought scum could fall for ruru's gambit and not target her, so I went for 2nd on draft.

i don't really believe this

earlier you claimed that you thought ruru was gambitting and that you could understand why town would do that so idk why you wouldn't have just protected her. and you don't really seem to have indicated that you were townreading sky like anywhere; like even from this i can't really tell if you're townreading or scumreading sky.

First off; PGO/1-shot Vig is rarely ever picked anyway, much less so by the #1 draft.

ruru obviously was claiming a strong TPR that needed to try and evade the NK.

If a Townie had the role they would not have CC'd if they knew what they were doing (and/ot if they knew ruru well enough). Scum would have also known she was lying if they did have the role, so I'm slightly leaning they do, but not ruling out someone in the scum team knows ruru well enough and called her bluff.

like you clearly believed that she was gambitting being pgo to try to protect herself as another strong pr so idk why you wouldn't have protected her

like you're basically saying you saw through the gambit but didn't do anything about it when it was in your power to do so because you think scum also saw through the gambit - if scum saw through the gambit too like you thought they did it points to scum having pgo/vig but you haven't really tried to like ... find the pgo/vig once we've determined the group of slots that it must be in


=====

pretty sure enigma is town

=====

Can someone interpret this for me? Is he saying Sky is town or scum?

i think he's saying he thinks scum is in the lower numbers so he wants to go down the draft list in order to pressure those people.

like i don't think that's a read on any of those people based on play, but rather that he thinks that we ought to pressure people based on draft pick

and given this it's kinda weird that he decided to protect sky tbh

=====

AP being scum would mean AP is most likely RB and scum could have safely killed ruru through PGO without caring about the fakeclaim aspect of that. That means Vig doesn't necessarily have to be scum. Given that Vig hasn't claimed and no-one seems to disagree with my Town-Vig = AP-scum theory, I think vig is most likely scum, and in Aus/Skitter/Vulcan.

(quoted form the wiki page on this setup)

Here are the order of operations for role resolution:
Commuting (isn't affected by anything)
PGO Activation
Roleblocking
Redirecting
Protecting
Killing
Investigating

i think this means that pgo comes before anything else and that a rb/jk would have gotten pgo'd if they targeted them. ie rb'ing a pgo wouldn't have turned off the pgo but would have just killed the rb if they targeted an active pgo, so if they thought she was a pgo i don't think this was a viable option for them if they had a rb

[skitter30]

i have gotten much of my motivation back, yay

--

Ye bottom up claim works for me and yes on holding out on results

The cool think now is hard clears are confirmed town with only one scum left

pedit agree w that too

yep; you're conftown mechanically if you neighborize someone the same night scum kills, as will be anyone else who has a confirmable result

i think we're pretty close to the place where we can solve tis mechanically

(you're kinda obvtown independently of that; i'm talking from a mechanics perspective)

i'll claim after cardi
--

Oh FYI pretty much 100% that last scum is RBer, and since there was a kill last night they didn't RB. So you didn't get RBd PRs, although you could have been jailed.

i'm not entirely following why u think the last scum is rb tbh?

you think ap claimed his partner's role? why would he do that tho? i feel like he was trying to force a cc; given no ccs it's possible that it just didn't get picked.

also there is no evidence of there being a rb, although, tbf, it's possible n1 an rb hit someone who wouldn't ahve noticed that they were blocked and now scum can't rb and kill at the same night

what do you think scum were doing n1? vizzy was dead so it was ap + partner. actually now that i think about it scum!pgo!ap basically always activates that night after that sketchy hammer imo so the partner prob did the kill n1 and we wouldn't have seen a rb anyways

--

full disclosure now:

I'm not ready to go into full paranoia mode yet and I'm still townreading Ausuka but I think this is important for town to know down the road in case I die:
I tried to neighbourize Oka
Ausuka knew I was going to try to neighbourize Oka
I had pointed out how it appeared that Oka seemed to have softclaimed a weak investigative role

granted, Oka was still a really obvious choice for a NK considering their placement in the draft

i don't know why this would be scum indicative for ausuka tbh? like what does scum!ausuka gain by killing oka the night u tell her u want to neighborize him?

also she's basically the precipitate that caused the ap lynch and like i don't think that comes from her as scum like ever tbh

--

no, I think that CJ if scum isn't RB.

actually drop Vulcan to bottom sector I think especially if last scum is confirmed RB somehow.

so the thing with vulcan/cardi/cj is that there was a very interesting cw to ap at the end of the day yesterday

vulcan logician (3) ~ Cardi B, ceejayvinoya, AP,

there were actually more votes on him; enigma + ausuka were here too

the way ap hopped on as the wagon grew kinda makes me think he was trying to wagon anyone that looked semi-viable in an attempt to save his own skin. like his vote doesn't really seem like a distancing vote to me; it seems more like 'i want to try to save myself'.

especially if the other scum is actually a rb i don't think he tries to get his more powerful partner lynched when ap is going to be in an ever-shrinking lynchpool that will persist until the vig/pgo was actually found.

basically in that context i really really don't think vulcan is scum with ap here

i like cardi overall more than cj - cardi was pretty consistently townreading him throughout the day; i don't know if scum attaches themselves to a dying partner like that. also she seemed to really think he had given off doc-tells from early day1 so her trepidation at lynching him makes sense to me.

i don't really like how cj just kinda hopped on sheeping cardi's reasoning tho; agreeing with the reasoning that scum would have to sort him out eventually kinda reads like he was trying to buy ap a couple of days.

--

(aside i saw that people were waiting for me to claim yesterday; i hope that wasn't too disruptive; i'm always offline on weekends)

[skitter30]

yep; you're conftown mechanically if you neighborize someone the same night scum kills, as will be anyone else who has a confirmable result

i think we're pretty close to the place where we can solve tis mechanically

(you're kinda obvtown independently of that; i'm talking from a mechanics perspective)

I do town read Sky, but just want to point out mechanically this is not guaranteed for Sky as we can't confirm her neighbourizer going through last night. That being said, if there are people who have confirmable night actions from last night (if there is anyone), they are confirmed town.

oh, i didn't mean that she was already conftown mechanically as of last night since oka died; i meant that if she were to neighborize someone on the same night that a kill happens in the future she would be; same if anyone does a confirmable action, either last night or any night that scum also kill

--

Meh. As has been pointed out, the remaining scum is demoted to goon status from lack of ability to use PR. So I don't think that would have factored into AP's motivations at all.

However, I do strongly feel that both scum were on my wagon at some point. Enigma is locktown, so that puts Ausuka, ceej and Cardi in my bottom brackets.

ausuka doesn't make like any sense to me as scum with ap - without her outing her pick we wouldn't have had the lynchpool of you/oka/me/ap yesterday; her claim is directly what prompted the hunt for the pgo. i ... just don't see her doing this as scum; it doesn't really fit her personality.

like if anything if ap/ausuka are scum together i can see him bussing her in some sort of gambit-thing that would enable him to coast but i don't really see him having her bus him - he also has a much better scumgame than her iirc (no offense ausuka ) and i don't think he would gambit on some sort of elaborate bussing thing and entrust like the entire game to her coasting for the next however many days; people would probably expect her to be nk'd at some point for outing him. like this doesn't make much sense to me at all

--

So, I'm doing some rereading of da thread... and I'm starting to think that Ausuka is the scum.

lololol no

--

Remember all this stuff from D1?

yeah lynching AP tomorrow if this greens. the hammer is honestly worthy of a lynch regardless of anything else imo.

Then there's this from EOD on D1. In retrospect, it seems a bit manufactured. If she is scum, of course she knew Vizyy was gonna flip red, thus relieving her of following through on her threat to push AP.

all of these things are very circumstantial and just like not really important and like ... kinda reachy? like why does any of this outweigh the outing-the-pgo thing?

like i kinda feel like you went through her iso looking for things to nitpick

--

Im vanilla.

I think skitter, skygazer, enigma are town mechanically or wheva.

i'm vt!

why am i town mechanically tho - to the best of my knowledge i haven't been cleared?

--

there seems to be people thinking AP wouldn't bus as basically caught scum. I think you're just wrong. AP doesn't voluntarily tie himself to Vulcan like that.

We NEVER lynch music over Vulcan sorry. Like if there's one thing I'm going to insist it's that Vulcan doesn't live to LYLO.

why do you think he busses there? he was in a pool of people where we know that there was a scum pgo/vig and like, we wouldn't have stopped looking at that pool until the pgo/vig flipped - all that bussing does is buy him a couple of days but he'd still be fucked mechanically because we'd still be looking for him once his partner flipped not-pgo

i don't really know what he gains out of bussing there besides buying a few days. and like his vote on vulcan felt more like a 'here's a hip new counterwagon that i'm going to join to try to save myself' kinda vote than a bussing vote

wrt vulcan i'm conflicted because on associatives he doesn't really make a lot of sense with ap imo but like ... he's incredibly scummy independently and his push on you is icky

--

If you were a cop you wouldn't volunteer to be lynched Cardi. Don't play these games please.

If Im finna be lynched then I'm claiming frreal. Cardi make money moves u know that. Uh even if she ain't really been on the shmoney that much this game.

sorry, i'm not following what you're trying to say. are you saying you're claiming cop for real or vt for real? or that in the evnet of you being lynched you will claim for real?

--

VOTE: ceejayvinoya

why are you voting cj here? like if you really think ausuka is scum why aren't you pushing that?

--

Well. I guess my scumread of you might be interpreted as some wild gambit by you and Sky, but it isn't. It's just as I said... concerns that came to mind as I was rereading the thread. I think the stuff I reposted deserves a little scrutiny now that we have the benefit of hindsight.

The reason I felt the need to express those thoughts is that if you ARE scum, you are in a position to win... although it would take lots of luck and Disney magic to get you from here to victory. If somebody else is scum, town will have a much easier time catching onto them by LYLO. So I didn't want you to pass so easily under our noses, y'know?

#staywoke

a) after recieving pushback your scumread dropped from '70% certain' to 'some concerns that came to mind as I was rereading the thread'. this doesn't feel like something you really believe tbh given that you backed off when others questioned the read and instead decided to hop on the popular wagon

b) i feel like most of the evidence you're citing for scum!ausuka is very incidental and largely outweighed by the ap thing - does it even make sense for her to bus ap here? that's a key question that you're not really addressing. i kinda feel like you're trying to fan paranoia tbh

[skitter30]

are we going in order or should i just claim?

[skitter30]

neighborizer

it's really fun to steal duckling's pagetops :)

[skitter30]

why do you think he busses there? he was in a pool of people where we know that there was a scum pgo/vig and like, we wouldn't have stopped looking at that pool until the pgo/vig flipped - all that bussing does is buy him a couple of days but he'd still be fucked mechanically because we'd still be looking for him once his partner flipped not-pgo

i don't really know what he gains out of bussing there besides buying a few days. and like his vote on vulcan felt more like a 'here's a hip new counterwagon that i'm going to join to try to save myself' kinda vote than a bussing vote

Because if he doesn't it ties him to Vulcan irreversibly. I don't think AP was really planning to survive tbh.

idk, ap bussing his non-pgo partner while he himself is the scum!pgo in a pool of people that is known to contain the scum!pgo that we were basically going to just lynch through seems like an incredibly stupid game-plan to me

also i'm kinda perplexed by what cardi's doing - if she actually has an inno there i don't want to lynch him but i can't really tell if that's a thing or not

==

Uhhh. Why did you wait to claim here wtf???? It literally takes seconds to claim your pick. It must have taken longer to write the bottom line than to actually claim.

And why did you choose Vengeful????

i think he was just waiting to see if someone else had a better plan for which order we should claim in

imo vengeful is a pretty anti-town role and i don't really think it's the optimal role for town to pick ... but we have proof that town might pick vengeful in the flipped town vengeful so i don't think that someone picking vengeful should be inherently viewed as scummy

i literally just mislynched sando (oops) - i wouldn't call town!sando an easy mislynch; it basically took me being tunneled and having a 1v1 walling thing for like a week coupled with bad town not reading the game and misrepping him coupled with nm lolhammering to mislynch him

i don't know how hard he is to lynch as scum

i think that kinda makes sense for him to pick as town tbh, given that he has experience with people in this pl mislynching him or being willing to sheep cases on him - if he does get mislynched he can turn that into a positive and kill people who behaved sketchily around the wagon

==

@sando: you wanna talk about ur cj read a bit?

==

(

@ducklling:

can you please update the OP so that the 'dead people' section lists all the dead people? thanks )

[skitter30]

o look im confirmed town now

^^^^

i've been neighborized so this is a thing

==

VOTE: Vulacn

In retrospeck I think dat there was like a 1% chance at best I woul got shot instead of enigmas doctorass ass. But I awso think it was unlikely that the lynch path woulda changed reCardless of my inno so wheva an I dont think anyone scumreads me for this in particular. I was jus really excited at the idea that coul I flip and clear vulcan.

uh you're voting ur hypo-inno

i'm trying to figure out how to read this and a lot of this depends on who u are i think - you might not answer this but i might as well try - have i played a game with u where you've faked a guilty as town?

so wrt vulcan i'm kinda conflicted because independantly he's scummy and he's also like trying to milk the cardi thing as a reason not to be suspected but on associatives with ap i still don't know if ap votes him there? like it's really suicidal for ap to bus his non-pgo partner

with cardi i'm currently thinking that she's town because banking surviving on a fake cop-claim honestly seems stupid as last scum because there's like no way she gets to endgame on that claim. also mechanically clearing someone each night is prob not a good idea for last scum when there's several days left to the game. but then she's dropping the cop thing i think given that there doesn't appear to be more evidence of another hypo result

i currently think that she was trying to draw the nk?

i am going to demand that if you're still alive the day before lylo you must claim for real either way

and i don't really believe the claim now but i'm kinda tending towards town tbh

[skitter30]

@duckling that vc is hialrious lol

ok then u aren't who i think u are i guess and i ave no idea who u are

can u explain ur vulcan read because u went from faking an inno on them to voting them today

[skitter30]

skitter why are you clearing Cardi based on her not being willing to fakeclaim cop to endgame? I think it's pretty clear that the claim wasn't permanent considering that she retracted today?

I feel lost tbh :v

yeah idk how well i got across what i was trying to say, sorry

basically sticking to the cop claim would be kinda suicide mechanically for scum because - a) they'd have to clear someone each night and b) explain indefinitely why they haven't died

as i was writing my post i wasn't sure if she was hard-retracting or not

i was also thinking that even if she retracted it it probably didn't come from scum - last scum here, to win, needs to get through like five mislynches or however many it is and deliberately putting themselves in the spotlight by doing the obviously scummy thing of faking a claim and faking results just seems kinda brazen and unlikely and i don't know what they would be accomplishing with that, especially by retracting because it just makes them look super bad. i'm thinking that last scum here wants to not rock the boat and just kinda go along with the consensus and coast for as long as possible

part of this was based on who i thought the main was - i guess i can say this now since she debunked this theory. i thought hse was ruby red and i was thinking of splatoon mafia where town!her faked a guilty and i cleared her because honestly it seemed like a stupid thing to do from last scum in that position. it isn't her tho apparently so this isn't a thing anymore

her most recent posts are wtf-y tho because you're kinda obvtown, she agreed like day2 or day3 that you outing scum!ap is unlikely from scum!you, and she literally voted you and then quoted a bunch of posts of urs and indicated that she agreed with them

is this just like scum flailing? because i have no idea what she's doing at this point and i don't understand what she's trying to do here.

i'm now wondering if scum just thought they were fucked since like the ap thing and haven't really been trying. that's kinda what the gamestate feels like too, the game has kinda lacked a sense of urgency over the past couple of days.

also i'm kinda getting the vibe that cardi wants to be lynched which is against her wincon as both alignments. so idk if that's inherently ai but i'm thinking in the context it's kinda scummy because if she's the last scum it could be she just wants the game to end without going through the motions of playing the next few days trying to avoid the lynch

[skitter30]

Do you think Cardi would have survived if she didn't do the gambit? Because I really think that isn't the case? Like going into d3 Cardi's chances of winning are really small. I think that she's already in the spotlight at that point and her efforts are likely centred around getting out of that position as scum by any means possible, hence the gambit.

like your'e saying she was thinking 'i'm fucked so i'm going to make a bad fake-claim' and see what happens? and then today she just decided to drop it?

because if she's trying to keep herself out of the lynchpool this isn't exactly lly a good plan

like i don't know if she was the obvious lynch yesterday (she was in the general lynchpool of vulcan/cardi/cj) and fake-claiming bought her a day but retracting kinda made her a super viable lynch today.

also now that i think about it fake-claiming an inno in that pool is kinda dumb too from her pov tbh so maybe she wasn't thinking about the long-term implications

like i don't know if she would have survived long-term on that claim but i think she probably could have survived to now without the claim. like i guess i'm saying that i odn't know what the benefit is as scum really. like it seems very risky and i don't know what she got out of it that she couldn't have gotten by just like pushing vulcan yesterday, without the added scumminess of faking a claim. was she on the cj lynch yesterday? i don't remember, i need to check.

like basically it bought her a day but made her a fairly likely lynch target today

but like i said i'm now getting the vibe that she wants to be lynched so maybe she just gave up trying? idk

also she wants to discuss the possibility of lynching vulcan which is kinda icky given the inno - like retracting the claim makes vulcan more lynchable (we were kinda hesitating yesterday because of it)

[skitter30]

I think she's trying to imply that I'm scum because I temporarily changed my mind which is hilarious when you consider the fact that she faked an inno on Vulcan d2 and then came into d3 trying to lynch him.

oh i thought she was indicating she agreed with your pov which is why i find it incongruous with her vote on you

[skitter30]

oh i thought she was indicating she agreed with your pov which is why i find it incongruous with her vote on you

Yall been great but I wonder if u readin the thread somtimes

i may have mentioned once or twice that the way you post makes it low-key hard for me to parse your posts

==

but like i said i'm now getting the vibe that she wants to be lynched so maybe she just gave up trying? idk

Where are you getting this vibe from?

--

I also wanna acknowledge just for myself that I want vulcan to be last scum

and this game to

jus

be over

(I dont think weve really done a lotta scumhunting since d2 and its hard even if we prolly gonna win) but Im not hunnit on that. I couldnt really have given another inno though I think especially since I wanna keep talkin about vulcan and everyone else today anyway.

In retrospeck I think dat there was like a 1% chance at best I woul got shot instead of enigmas doctorass ass. But I awso think it was unlikely that the lynch path woulda changed reCardless of my inno so wheva an I dont think anyone scumreads me for this in particular.

I was jus really excited at the idea that coul I flip and clear vulcan

.

Im fine lynchin ceejay me n music and then lettin yall think about it from there if summin went wrong.

i'm getting that vibe from her literally saying yesterday that she was fine being lynched and some of her word choices in other posts kinda reinforce that she wants to flip or that she wants the game to be over.

i initially took the bolded in the second post to mean that she wanted to be lynched in the hopes she could clear vulcan but the more i think about it the more i think she meant she was trying to get nk'd. also that post was why i was confused if she was retracting her claim or not because as a vt her flip wouldn't clear vulcan but she made that post just after voting vulcan

[skitter30]

i think i'm going to iso vulcan now

overall i think he's generally scummy but on associatives he doesn't seem to be scum with ap (specifically cuz of the cw) so i need to look at him a bit more

[skitter30]

i think i'm going to iso vulcan now

overall i think he's generally scummy but on associatives he doesn't seem to be scum with ap (specifically cuz of the cw) so i need to look at him a bit more

ok actually i got distracted by other things and it's getting late so this is a thing but it's going to happen tomorrow

[skitter30]

ok going through vulcan now:

-> still hate the cj townread in 240, since it gives him room later to backtrack, and wagoning his major townread when a wagon on him is forming in his next spurt of posts 520 for the sake of wagoning him and/or applying pressure on someone he isn't scumreading is not that great. neither is unvoting when pressured about it; it's not a vote he has much conviction in

-> 519 - making excuses for why he hasn't posted and promising content soon is kinda icky, especially after describing himself as a very active player earlier

-> a lot of self-meta to defend his behavior when he's being pressured 570

-> and the aforementioned readslist in 615 - both scum as null (null is defined as 'not much to elaborate on'), and again, his only townlean is the person he wagoned for pressure

-> 919 - vulcan describes the way he thinks that scum would have interacted with the vizzy wagon - hopping on for the towncred. i'm wondering if this is a way to cast shade on the vizzy wagon while making his own actions (not voting vizzy) look better

-> 960 - a general trend that i'm seeing is that he's into wagons for the sake of having wagons' he hops on new wagons as they form. it makes me feel like he doesn't have any major scurmeads that he's interested in pushing because he like never votes somene because he's actually scumreading them

-> 1033 - still dislike that he thinks that vizzy interactions aren't useful, especially since earlier he was saying that scum would probably have hopped onto the wagon

-> also he kept on asking people to vote for him so mid day2 i was thinking he was vengeful but that isn't a thing clearly so idk why he wants people to vote for him

-> 1325 - dislike that he has nothing substantial to say about the ap lynch

-> the ausuka scumread is still really really bad and trumped-up given that ausuka basically gave us ap, and then recanting when under pressure is meh

-> i dislike that he had hopped onto believing cardi's claim and bolstering it and believed it pretty easily since he 'knows that he's town' - it felt like he was using that as a reason for us to townread him. also if cardi's town i think that scum would have nk'd her given that she was all-but claiming cop and she isn't dead, and it's nice for scum!vulcan to have someone claiming on inno on him; and then dropping the townread when she recanted the claim and people were scumreading cardi is kinda icky

from ap's iso:

-> literally doesn't mention him until 766, when he just included him in the generic list of low-draft people that he thinks ought to be under scrutiny

-> there's some banter between them that i don't think is ai much either way

-> and then there's the infamous ap-vulcan vote in 1256 - the more i think about it i think this might just be a distancing vote, where ap thought they were screwed and decided to get the towncred of bussing another partner - afterall, enigma's 'i know 100% that ap is lying' didn't happen till later so we don't know how ap was planning on playing this out. also in an ap/vulcan/vizzy team ap is 100% the best scumplayer so it's possible that he wanted to sacrifice vulcan to get some cred to see how long he could last after claiming something semi-valuable to town because scum!vulcan is unlikely to be able to get that far on play tbh

from vizzy's iso:

-> 459 - he had ap in his nulls, as well as vulcan; i'm wondering if he puts both scum in his nulls. i can see voting vulcan there as a distancing attempt givne that he voted him after classifying him as siteflaked (he wouldn't necessarily be expecting him to respond to the pressure) since vulcan didn't have much pressure on him at that time

so tldr i think the main saving grace for vulcan is that ap voted him at the end of day2 but overall i think that his play is rather scummy and that the ap vote doesn't absolve him of them

also i like this wagon because my biggest two townreads are on it

i'm happy to hammer when we're ready, although i agree with sky that if ofrhz is getting replaced the replacement hould maybe say something first

==

Srs tho thanks for that vc thing

Anybody played with orfhrhz a lot? I feel like she an easy soulread but Im not hunnit that somebodys got that so far

Also whom agrees wit me that her case on me d2 was towny, that hold a lotta water to me

she tends to like bleed obvtown as town and i was vibing that early game

i kinda lose that read when she doesn't post

but i think the inactivity has been sitewide and not game-specific so that isn't ai imo

also idk what pronoun they are either

[skitter30]

sky was saying it was sando -> music -> cardi in that order and that skitter had been townreading Cardi but she's not 100% convinced? and also that ofrhz had scum equity and she can't be allowed to lurk today. She also said that I needed to trust skitter and not get paranoid.

Pedit: well I had just woken up and felt tired? assuming you meant game-related I was hopeful he would flip scum because he didn't do that for cjv iirc and the game ending felt like the sort of event that he would hype up rather than just another ML.

sky wasn't super around over the night and said she was having a tough time with mafia for the past few days cuz of some real-life stuff

i said that i didn't really think it was cardi despite the fake-claim because i just don't really think that someone with her playstyle gambles like that as last scum; she seems very methodoclical and thinks through things and i don't think she as last-scum tries this. i said that i was strongly tending towards town!cardi; her claim is kinda a mess of wifom but i kinda think she's town despite it - like she's been town as fuck independent of that fake-claim imo - like 1611 is really townie

sky thought it was music -> sando -> cardi and mentioned that she thinks there's an offchance of it being ofrhz

she also said she hoped her reads were bad enough that scum wouldn't kill her, and told me not to get paranoid over ausuka

==

Hey I'm here and yeah I'm Mylo lol. I was trying to like play outside my normal stuff and be all 'professional' up in here but it failed lol.

In other news, I have like no idea who scum is lol.

hi mylo!

i really had no idea it was you!

you're super easy for me to read usually so if you're town just be your usual townie self because so far i haven't seen any town!mylo posts (that could well be because of the alt thing tho lol).

what are you thinking about the game?

==

Like, I think usually as scum he like forces weird content but as town he just says "meh i'm not posting anything lol maybe tomorrow" and never actually gives content. I would definitely feel v bad losing to scum!Music though.

this isn't really how i would characterize mylo's towngame actually; town!him does give content but it's very unforced and it's just exactly what he's thinking - scum!him feels self-conscious about the lack of content and forces himself to produce content when prodded.

basically town!mylo is very carefree and very laissez-faire and just kinda posts and doesn't care about how he's percieved and scum!mylo is very forced and very self-conscious; it's like night-and-day

==

coming into today i thought it was something like music > sando > ofrhz > cardi > ausuka but i think i'm just going to toss the music read because i was basing the read on what is apparently awkward alt-posting and mylo i can read super easily when he just posts normally

i feel like we've collectively been kinda like coasting after the two scumflips and just been kinda complacent. i really want to try to use today to solve the game and like i don't want this game to have to like go to mylo

i'm very confident it isn't ausuka and i'm reasonably confident it isn't cardi - there's some lingering wifom but honestly i just don't think it comes from last-scum with her playstyle

everyone else i think i need to start again with

==

cardi if you wanted to speak with me i'm around for a bit now!

[skitter30]

How is this not organic town!Mylo content?

Cardi might be town I can trust you on that one. If she is I think scum is in {sando, ofrhz} with Sando probably being more likely.

none of these are posts i'd townread mylo for tbh; i townread him for spontaneous unforced-ness if that makes sense and i haven't sen him exhbit that here yet really; i'm acknowledging that it might be because of the alt-posting style thing tho which is why i want to see more from him here

*things i want to reference but can't right now*

splatoon is the only game i've played with scum!him

==

As for the game, I have some time to spend to this now but for now I think I'm confident in Ausuka and Skitter town, and from that I'm not strong on Cardi!Scum either now. I shall begin the ISO hunts now lol.

what happened to you wanting {vulcan or cardi} yesterday? switching over to sando when ausuka says she thinks sando is most likely scum is kinda meh

Ofrhz's ISO wasn't amazing or anything, but I'm cool enough with it for it now. Noticed Invis's end of day reads and ofrhz was town and Sando was leantown, which kinda makes it more defnitive.

So yeah, I'm liking Sando!Scum right now,

and I'm even going to display that like with a vote towards him!

VOTE: Sando

this is kinda townie from mylo imo tho

have you played with sando before?

==

@ofrhz: can you talk to me about what makes you wanna bus on someone?

i'm not averse to bussing. i've voted my scumpartner on page 1 before, because their rvs entrance was questionable (it was a newbie game) and i did it for the towncred. funnily enough, i remember getting scumread for that. i don't think i've actually lynched my partner unless they were conf scum (i also only have 1.5 scumgames onsite if you want to read them yourself. it's a pretty short read)

voting someone in rvs isn't really bussing imo; that's more like distancing; bussing is more like proclaiming your partner to be scum and voting them early and staying on till lynch

link the scumgames? I don't think i've seen scum!you before

==

i kinda like 1639; i think that's a fairly nuanced post from ofrhz

==

i don't understand the strength of the townreads on cardi

basically i don't think that someone with her playstyle/thought processes fake-claims cop and retracts it that way as scum; i feel like she's pretty methodological and careful and thinks things through pretty carefully and the fake-claim was a haphazrd mess that just sort of invited suspicion onto her and i just dont' really see her doing that as scum tbh.

like i think it was kinda anti-town because it made her slot rather wifom-y but i just don't know if it's *scumy*

i think her main motivation was trying to get herself nk'd cuz she was kinda over the game at that point, although i htink she's back into it

also she's been pretty townie (especially over the last couple of days) independent of the claim

what are you thinking about her now?

==

Finally invis and AP could flip either way. They are practically not even in this game.

So if we remove my TRs, that leaves us with the following complete scum pool:

{Vulcan, ausuka, brass, enigma, sando}

Could go either way: {AP, invisibility, skygazer}

Townleans: {ruru, oka, skitter, CJ, ofrhz}

Not a bad start for day 1 if you'll allow me a moment of ego-stroking.

This is unrelated but I hated this post. Like, how can you have all of me, ausuka, brass, enigma, sando as scumleans, and have literal null as "could go either way"? How do you have five people in your scumpool below that? It just doesn't make much sense to me.

having both scum in your 'could go either way' pile is kinda meh

aside what do you think about bujaber's rep-out?

==

Wait, why didn't Enigma die N2? The CC wasn't an actual CC, it was a claim to know 100% that AP wasn't the doc.

Cop and Role-cop are the two powers that would also know this. Scum could probably deduce from play (I haven't checked this but I'm assuming) that Enigma wasn't cop, since guilties get a very distinct play against them I think. But Role-cop? You'd DEFINITELY kill a potential role-cop.

Leaving Enigma alive says they probably thought it was the real doc. That says the DIDN'T think Enigma was role-cop or cop, why?

My guess they have it. They can't have thought Oka was either since townie up that high hasn't claimed it, so if they picked it they got it...

i'm kinda interested in why *oka* was the kill that night if they weren't killing enigma

n1 - ruru; widely townread + scum knew she was fake-claiming; much discussion over this
n2 - oka
n3 - enigma; known to be a pr of some sort that was like never partners with ap
n4 - conftown!sky; pretty obvious kill

oka's kinda the odd one out and i'm not sure why they waited a night to kill enigma

he was kinda scumreading ausuka but i'm pretty sure ausuka is town so i don't think he was killed for his scumreads unless they were like trying to frame her or something; also looking at how he jumped on the ap wagon i don't know if he could have been pushed as a viable ap partner

the obvious answer is that he had a high draft-pick so maybe they just thought he was a decently strong tpr? i don't think he was super widely townread at that point iirc

so you think that last scum is rolecop (and thus didn't think enigma was a rolecop) and lied about it? practically speaking tho do u think there is a way for us to identify said rolecop? because otherwise this is just setup spec that isn't super helpful rn

[skitter30]

Not only killed Oka, killed Oka through a doc, it's all over a weird kill.

ya that's basically my point - i don't know why they'd kill a high-draft number over someone who softed a pr very strongly in such a way that basically cc'd scum and got him lynched

==

ok i looked thru ofrhz's scumgames and my thoughts were bascially - can fake townie looking thought-processes to a certain degree and tends to ask a lot of questions and looks like he's active and interacting with other people but doesn't really take a lot of hard stances or really *push* scumreads.

in the first link he bussed his partner after he was caught fake-claiming; had previously listed him as scummy but pushed his other scumreads over him; didn't really interact with his scumbuddy till he bussed him

second - also didn't really interact with his scumpartner; did the cliche 'vote ur scumbuddy in rvs' thing; when making a readlist 'didn't have any innovative thoughts' on his partner - like had some cursory interaction with him but didn't really go anywhere with it

the first linked game was a lot better than the first imo also; second felt kinda forced actually

compared to here - kinda lightly defended vizzy (saying his posting style was nai) - i don't know if he defends partner!vizzy, and i think his scumread on him is kinda organic over time and i can see how it develops based on how vizzy (fails to) interacts with him. also starts off townreading ap, and maintains that during the ap/ausuka/pgo thing ('i'm more inclined to vote vulcan or ap, but also like... not really all that inclined to vote either.' 1051). i feel like scum!him would maybe hop on here but didn't; i kinda got the vibe that he finds it a little too risky to townread his scumpartners from those previous games

and then his actual ap vote is kinda flippant - i feel like ofrhz bussing him here would make more of a show about it almost

i'm also not really picking up that forced vibe; also think that he has more conviction about his positions here than there - kinda like how he popped in to say he townread vulcan just before the vulcan lynch.

also i kinda like his posting today tbh

(apologies this feels slightly awkward asking cuz i've been playing with you for while - what pronoun?)

==

I think it's towny, but I can't be super sure unless I metadive Bujaber to see if he overreacts like that as town or is capable of that ate as scum.

i was thinking about this game:

Spoiler:

Subject: Open 713: Jungle Republic [Game Over]

@thor yes. I saw that it was a pronoun discussion so I skipped over it and forgot the names being discussed.

@mod I'd like to be replaced please. I'm sorry.
Clearly there is a language barrier that I can't penetrate or wilky is being intentionally thick.

Subject: Open 713: Jungle Republic [Game Over]

Yes I am. I'd rather replace than suicide and I just don't want to play this game anymore because I can't continue explaining the same things over and over and over again. It's not even an argument of what is scummy or not anymore as you can see. We're arguing on what the fuck my words actually mean.

second-to-last iteration of jungle republic

basically mafia!bujaber got caught by wolf!wilky and got pissed that wilky wouldn't let it up and kept pushing him and had an argument through much of day1 until he basically got fed up with trying to defend his word choices and repped out

i was thinking about his argument with sando and how he ultimately just decided to repout over a fairly innocuous post from sando (909) but comparing the two games now he didn't exhibit quite as much ... vitriol in the jungle republic repout, just kinda general frustration; (i hadn't really paid that much attention to the bujaber/wilky argument cuz i was having a walling 1v1 with someone else for like two weeks )

==

Hi guys! I've replaced into the same game twice now lol.

also a townie post from mylo

==

Yeah, it's probably not fair to call you out on differences between this one and that one lol.

I think I'm fine playing PR's (I played one game I'm SUPER proud of where I correctly watched the night kill, got tracked to prove the result and called out mafia. But for some reason I was lynched over obv!Mafia lol), but I do understand hating a type of role lol.

after discussing that game with sando and the town-pr thing, does that impact ur read of him here?

==

sando, i know a lot of what you think about the game from a mechanical/setup spec perspective but i'm not really sure who you're scumreading at this point.

[skitter30]

@ausuka:

yeah tending town on ofrhz

i dont' know who she is (was thinking nsg but apparently that isn't a thing), but if you strip away the cardi gimmick, her thought process / playstyle / questions that she's asking / mindset kinda reminds me of how i play and how i approach the game, and, like, i would never do that as scum in that position

like some people i can see doing that, no problem - ap, sure, duckling, sure

other people not so much and she's not really fitting into the above category for me

i'm just having a really hard time seeing her do that and chance her game on a failed cop-claim without thinking it through better or like figuring out how to maintain it long-term. it's like it's too ... messy almost, idk. also the way she retracted it - starting the day voting vulcan - i don't know if i see her as scum upon retracting her hypo-inno being ballsy enough to then push that

it would be easier if i knew who she was so i could check her meta, but i can't, so i'm basing it on what i see here

also *independent* of the claim i think she's been really really townie these past couple of days; i feel like she, almost more than anyone else alive right now, is trying to solve the game. like the claim itself is kinda icky and wifom-y as anything but like holistically i just think she's kinda town tbh

and in sando/music/cardi i want to lynch her the least i think

i would feel kinda :/ losing this to scum!cardi and the bad fake-cop claim after having two scum lynches early game

but like idk i don't really think it's her tbh

[skitter30]

bleh maybe i should do a brass metadive

[skitter30]

i want mylo to post more too

[skitter30]

both of ofrhz's bussing votes had a yolo-like quality to them

and in the scumgames it was more like - my partner was stuck fake-claiming so i need to be on that wagon

like it was more delibereate almost

p-edit yeah i thought i said that already like a while ago lol

[skitter30]

absolutely no idea who you are lol

[skitter30]

oh gosh this is bothering me

my next guess was going to be katyusha lmao

and you've been pretty good about; i like alt-hunting and i can do a lot with a few small clues. but like you haven't really dropped any

all i've got is 'someoen who's played recently - with ofrhz maybe - is familiar with a lot of this playerlist'

[skitter30]

I was actually thinkin during n4 that like theres a ton of people that would jus tear this game apart and I could sheep them to hell n back if they replaced in

like nsg, eddie cane, duckie (he prolly know this game pretty well), katyusha, prolly brassherald if he stayed in

Few of those ppl dont play mafia anymore or sommin

lycan maybe?

(if you want me to stop guessing lmk)

==

i don't get

why cardi would do it as town in that case?

also i don't get why cardi as scum has to like maintain the cop claim long-term? like, it was never meant to be an actual hard claim I think, and also it's kinda suicidal to keep clearing people as scum there.

i just dont know what to think i guess. i would feel that way losing to any slot in that pool after other people managed to lynch scum d1 and d2.

also i thought cardi was mathdino tbh? but probably not

i guess i kidna feel like scum!her would worry too much about the optics of such a claim and would like plan it out better. i don't know if there's explicit town motivation so much as i don't think she pulls this as scum. like i def agree that it was anti-town but i'm just having a hard time seeing her do it as scum from how she approaches the game

and like yeah i'd feel kinda annoyed losing to *anyone* after two scumflips day1/day2 but it'd be worse i think losing to someone who fake-claimed cop on top of that

idk i just don't really think she's scum tbh

==

sando, i know a lot of what you think about the game from a mechanical/setup spec perspective but i'm not really sure who you're scumreading at this point.

Me either, lynched my biggest town read and biggest scum read in the last two days.

Music/Ausk then Skitter (only thing stopping me here is it means full townlynch of townies the last 2 days), then Cardi/Ohfrz, in order of scumminess.

I'd rather not poison the well too much on the comments around me, so I'm waiting for the protagonists to post tbh.

i guess i just kinda feel like you aren't trying to figure out the game tbh. like after your biggest townflip and your biggest scumflip flipped i'd kinda expect you to now proceed from those flips to try to find the last scum but i don't see you doing that

why are you townreading cardi?

also i think scum!ausuka is an asinine read tbh; i don't think she outs ap like that ever

like i'm trying to envision a universe where the two of them decide that after vizzy flips scum!ausuka is going to deliberately out the pgo in such a way that pretty much guaranteed ap wasn't going to make endgame given that we knew that scum!pgo was in a handful of slots

ausuka you're awesome but no offense i think ap's scumgame is much better than yours so in that scumteam ausuka decides to bus her stronger scumpartner in order to try to carry teh game?

like i just don't really think that's a thing, and i don't think the fact that she wasn't actually on the ap lynch is that relevant given that without her claim i don't know if the ap lynch even happens that day

==

i want mylo to post more too

Done

so i was low-key following this game, which ended like today or yesterday or something

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=76573

and mylo was hilarously beyond obv!town, especially in lylo, with that carefree laissez-faire mylo earnestness and trying-to-solve-the-game-ness

here i'm kinda feeling like he's lurking a bit? and that he's having to be prodded to provide content? i like a few posts that give off that carefree tone but the actual lack of presence and lack of interaction with people even after outing the alt is making me slightly nervous

==

You're right, looking at EOD vote to show Ausuka's voting pattern on AP is off the mark...I'll take Ausuka's vote on scum at any time throughout the entire game though.

I didn't forget it, it's being overblown. We'd worked out scum likely had PGO/Vig and Aus basically halved the pool for that. That's not half the responsibility.

Yeah...unvoting a claim is just such a terrible crime, totally deserve rope for that...

i think you're undervaluing the impact of her claim - we wouldn't have reallly been able to figure out *where* to start looking for the pgo without it - knowing that there's a pgo *somewhere* is kinda different than knowing that there's a scum pgo within a group of like 5 players or however many it were

also i dislike the bolded; kinda feels defensive/over-reaction-y to me almost

==

we ummmm may need to reconsider the skitter townread

sorry!

for reference: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=76501; just ended this scumgame (my first one since literally last august lol) that ofrhz and ausuka and mylo were in

i think i've been pretty town here but if you have any questions about anything i did this game (or that game) let me know so we can talk about it

[skitter30]

@mylo again: now that you remember that sando was a pr in that game does that affect your read on him here?

[skitter30]

i think you're undervaluing the impact of her claim - we wouldn't have reallly been able to figure out *where* to start looking for the pgo without it - knowing that there's a pgo *somewhere* is kinda different than knowing that there's a scum pgo within a group of like 5 players or however many it were

also i dislike the bolded; kinda feels defensive/over-reaction-y to me almost

Ok but prior to D2 Aus had to tell Sky what she'd picked. If Aus has powers, she wouldn't want to claim it, and the only one they knew for sure was what Invis had picked, and PGO/Vig. Aus is taking an awful lot of credit for something she was forced to do. We dunno what Invis picked, but decent chance scum!Aus felt it was the safer to fakeclaim PGO/Vig rather than something else.

It's my

thing

to not lynch fakeclaims or counterclaims, and I get annoyed at people SRing me for doing pro-town things. I'll happily provide games where town decided to basically gamethrow because I argued we shouldn't lynch into a CC'd claim (my argument was correct and we lost).

she could've just like claimed neighborizer/fruit vendor since at that point she knew sky had it; or jk/tracker since ruru had died

like there were several safe options that didn't involve outing the other partner

i don't think she was forced to claim trying to take pgo/vig at all

==

@mylo again: now that you remember that sando was a pr in that game does that affect your read on him here?

Yeah, I think meta-wise he's all good, although maybe a bit more lowkey? But you know, everyone has off-games and maybe they're overgamed up to 11 games like I was once?

right, so what i'm ultimately getting at is that do you still think he's scum here?

because you're saying that you do not in fact have a meta reason to scumread him but you're still voting him

==

Havent looked at the whole ass game but this is something from endgame that sticks out. Like she woulda been scumpartners with vizzy in like two different games and made a completely different choice with how to play around him.

Idk how to read the votes in that game but I think she mighta bussed other than that?

so that game one day it was town!nk15 vs scum!vizzy - i really really really didn't want to bus him because that would have just fforced another phase that i'd have to play through

i was a little bit worried that people would like go back and check that day - my 'scumread' of vizzy basically became mysteriously strong that day, like i was trying to have my cake and eat it too by saying i was fine with either/or when they were both up for the lynch and vizzy was objectively scummier and once nk15 flipped town i just switched to hard-scumreading vizzy because everyone else was

whereas here i was scumreading vizzy fairly consistently and i don't know if his wagon would have become a thing if i didn't vote at that time; iirc i'm pretty sure i had a few oppurtunities to switch my vote as his wagon grew to try to push it somewhere else if i had wanted to

like you can see from that pt that i'm pretty good at coordinating night actions and nightplay but i'm not super good at dayplay as scum and repeatedly had to force myself to post. like i would pop in just before the prod timer ran out and say something entirely inconsequential and with like a *good* and/or coordianted town i would not have been able to get away with that and would have got caught much sooner because my dayplay isn't that great; and i just kinda lack motivation in general to keep posting and to like respond to things; i absolutely hate being suspected as scum and just tend to lurk instead of responding to being pushed

like in general i just hate bussing because it pushes off xylo and means that i'll be in the game longer realtime-wise and have to force myself to try to post townie things throughout that timespan; like i really can't imagine scum!me voluntarily bussing him day1 on purpose and forcing myself to play scum longer given how much i hate it and how much i hate posting as scum

or that i'd then bus my other partner the next day to leave the game for me to try to carry

==

I dont really think its gonna give me pause maybe unless I feel like reading more of it but skitter do you maybe wanna talk about why you think scum won that game? Or if that is answered by something in PT/postgame in that game can u quote dat

the mechanics, while fairly cool, contributed to a lot of town apathy - electing a kingmaker via secret voting for several dayphases removes agency and makes it hard for people to invest in the game. i was able to get away with generically townie looking posting and effort in that gamestate

+ town let 2 3p claims skate by - one was actual 3p who won and was removed from the game upon becoming president; that happened day-before-lylo and was effectively a mislycnh wrt scum wincon; the other was scum who bullshitted a bad 3p claim that didn't make sense that somehow never really got pushed? idk. both were claimed like day1 or day2 or somethign and town didn't do anything about it

+ i hard-pocketed mutant the mason to the point where n2 he decided to claim mason to me in a private communication via a pr that i was faking (it was a factional ability, long story); he trusted me super hard throughout the game after that to the point that he told me n5 (night before lylo) that if he died he wanted me to become president, which i posted about and got town!ofrhz to vote me, which enabled scum to quickhammer me and we won

[skitter30]

she could've just like claimed neighborizer/fruit vendor since at that point she knew sky had it; or jk/tracker since ruru had died

No...Ausuka had to tell Sky what they'd picked N1, before the Ruru death was resolved.

i mean i got added to my neighborhood with sky at the end of n3; at that point i knew that the n3 flip was enigma

like ausuka was in the neighborhood at daystart day2, at which point ruru had died

and basically my point is that scum!her had several safe things to claim to sky so idk why scum!her picks the claim that puts her partner under the spotlight, ultimately leading to the lynch

like you still haven't explained her motivation for doing that as scum. like why go this route at all instead of just claiming something safe?

==

Ahh I was asked for my reads, got attacked for scumreading you because you're "locktown" and have been defending (attacking?) that ever since. Turning around and whinging that I'm attacking locktown status without reading is kinda ridiculous right now.

You've literally never voted for any scum and you've lynched two townies, claiming that you're locktown is out of proportion with what happened.

can you explain why you're scumreading her? is it literally just that she hadn't been on any scum lynches and that she hasn't voted for scum? i think that's a pretty shallow way to approach the game and your read on her and doesn't take into account her actions that led to the ap lynch imo; like i've been trying to get you to explain why scum!her does the pgo thing at all when she had several safe picks to claim at that point

(aside whinging is a good word lol; i associate it with harry potter; it's like never used in american english)

[skitter30]

You mean other than seeking to be conf!towned for it?

Skitter you've mislynched me before because the person I was looking at "could not possibly be scum because of X", and scum turned out to be someone who had also done X...

You more than most should be aware it's how I look at the game, and I find locktowning pretty BS unless it's mechanical in nature.

Other than that, yeah:

question: how much do you value anti-associatives in a general sense?

i think that might be part of what's going on here and in the jungle republic game - i will sometimes view a given interaction as just not ever coming from partners and i'll clear them for it. the reason you got mislynched in the jungle republic game is because you were scumreading me and i thought i was hilariously beyond clear for how ap's lynch went down there and i couldn't understand how that could be a real read that you were pushing

and you're kinda doing the same thing here

like how the ap lynch even came about i just can't imagine her orchestrating that as scum. like i'm trying to imagine scum!her but i just can't make the game make sense on some fundemental level if she's scum; i really, really, really don't think that's how day2 plays out if she's scum with ap, and i don't think she claims she tried to pick pgo/vig as scum there knowing scum!ap was pgo

and you still haven't addressed that

i think it's entirely fair for her to take credit for the ap lynch

like the way she interacted with ap and his lynch gives her massive anti-scum points and i don't think she's done anything to outweigh that on play if that makes sense?

i kinda feel like you probably don't try to push through a mislynch on ausuka as scum using similar reasoning as what you tried on me in jungle republic when i'm in this game given that i mislynched for it there tho

i don't really understand why you have 'not being on ap's wagon' as a more important factor than 'being the impetus for ap's wagon in the first place'

==

Sorry for being absent, I've been doing a school production and that's kinda taken up my usual free time.

UNVOTE: Just for now because from memory there was something I was thinking was townish from Sando.

@ausuka: do you still think mylo is kinda townie?

this is like classic scum!mylo

==

Also what about my progression from "not D1 lynch but not yet towncore" on D1 to "lynch this guy" on D2 do you find suspicious and out of character for someone who's never played a T+T with AP (I don't think I have, only a town to his scum and scum to his town)?

ok can you talk more about your progression from 'not day1 lynch but not yet towncore' to 'lynch this guy'?

ie what prompted that progression?

==

is there another reason why you guys are townreading cardi? @ skitter too

that + the hypo-inno thing

i think that's a fair point wrt everyone having townie thoughts; i kinda agree

i'm kinda getting a better feel for what sando's thinking right now and there are parallels with how he played jungle republic; also this sounds like it's a hill he's willing to die on and idk if scum decides to pick a fight here with ausuka who's been kinda widely townread?

unless it's just mylo i'm getting lost somewhere

==

@ofrhz: i'm going to reread cardi + brass (i'll start tonight but will prob finish tomorrow; mafia's been a little bit hard for me to put effort into over the past couple of days) and will keep in mind your points in 1787

[skitter30]

pretty sure ausuka is in this game more than invis is, brass.

Invisibility is in this game?

VOTE: Invisibility

I'd rather have the pressure vote on someone I forgot was in the game than Ausuka who I at least remembered.

I don't like the Enigma wagon, Enigma's ISO has some good questions, and good thoughts. That's a town ISO as far as I can tell.

Vulcan Logician promised more content in 240 and never followed up, I'd like to know why. I know the dude only has 3 posts, but they include him claiming he's a fairly active player. I will allow him more posts before making an actual read, but it makes me uneasy.

Invisibility is scum.

BuJaber, I'm leaning scum on.

I'll find the last scum tomorrow or something, going to the beach now.

this progression is kinda meh; don't like that he defended the vizzy vote as a pressure vote to make someone post content while explicitly saying he can't form a read on someone not posting and then called him scum later on when vizzy hadn't posted much substantial between those two posts

(aside: he has the word 'cheap' in his sig atm which is making ctrl+f'ing for 'ap' incredibly frustrating lol)

only time he mentions/interacts with ap is when: ap voted me in rvs for not posting yet, and he defended ap's oka vote. i don't know if all scum want to end up on that wagon given that vizzy sheeped ap just after? it's anti-associative from a vca perspective imo

still kinda like 47 tho

[skitter30]

hey, i got to cj in the end

(still wish i could see that dead thread tho)

and tbf i was clearing him for one good vote whereas scum!me would have been bussing via getting the seer to start a wagon on my partner; those aren't quite the same thing, and cj didn't do that

idk to me what ausuka did just doesn't really come from scum (and especially not scum!her)

scum weren't in a position where ap neeeded to be bussed (i think he prob could have coasted for a while on lolhammering his partner) + ap busses ausuka over the other way around just about always imo

like ausuka's awesome but i just don't think her scumgame is on the same level as ap's - just don't think she could coast till endgame on that, nor do i think she *wants* to put herself in that position, nor do i think that think scum were in a position where that needed to happen either; the reason ap was fucked day2 is *because* of her

p-edit: let me go back and reread how she outed him

[skitter30]

I'm neighbourizer and through PoE from my neighbor's claim we discovered that there has to be a Vig/PGO in AP/Skitter/Oka/Vulcan which means that one of those players would know that a ruru kill would be safe

We think that Oka and Vulcan are town, though, and that AP would've used their one-shot last night

For reference it took us a little bit to put together that there's likely a scum PGO/vig in the pool of people above her. When I realized, Ausuka was really cautious over jumping to conclusions and we worked through a few scenarios where this wouldn't be the case. We're townreading Oka and Vulcan, we realized that if AP had the role he would've likely taken the shot out of fear of being lynched, and skitter-scum is consistent with Ausuka's reads which I trust.

like why does scum!ausuka have this convo with sky in the first place?

like why not just claim something safe (she had at least four safepicks at this point)

[skitter30]

OK.. so assuming Ausuka's town here makes that lynch pool ideal. Even if she is scum (I don't think she is) and is telling the truth about going for Vig/PGO and not getting it means scum would have believed ruru = Ausuka cannot be scum AND killed ruru.

But what if Ausuka did land Vig/PGO and is now gambitting? That would be a very good way to keep the PRs away AND doe her to survive unsuspected for a couple more days.

DISCUSS before we do anything hasty. We are alead already and we don't want to give scum back the grounds that we had won.

also the bolded feels poisoning-the-well-y from ap; like he was trying to cast doubt on her claim

unless their plan was literally for her to bus him (and i don't think that's a plan the two of them make in the first place) i don't think he says that to/about his partner?

also saying the bolded after prefacing that he thinks she isn't scum is kinda :/

ok i'm going to bounce and go to sleep; i have an awful headache atm

things to do:

1. ausuka around the time of the pgo thing
2. cardi iso
3. i think i want to reread rvs too

[skitter30]

I mean I get it, but literally other than saying the words "PGO/Vig" Aus did literally nothing, and actively worked against the idea of AP being scum multiple times.

yeah but saying the words 'pgo/vig' instigated the ap lynch imo

i do'nt know if it happens that day if she didn't say she picked it

==

Regardless, you're well aware that I don't respect "locktown" reads And the reaction to this from Ausuka has not exactly moved her towards town in my eyes...

Interested in the Mylo read there. If he's scum, me and Aus just set up a massive TvT, what about Mylo says he quietly slinks away from that as scum? Seems like a good situation for him, sitting on one of the TvT wagons before it even starts.

i think on some fundemental level we view anti-associatives differently because i still believe my behavior around the ap lynch in jungle republic should have been clearing, and i also believe that ausuka's behavior around the ap lynch in this game ought to be clearing too

mylo has lurked through much of the game imo, even as music, and that's kinda a hallmark of scum!mylo; town!mylo doesn't really have to be prodded to give content and he's *present* and sharing his thoughts and i don't really see that here

town!mylo may not be super confident about his opinions but he at least shares them and indicates what he believes town needs to do to win and his thoughts are incredibly transparent

in contrast scum!mylo is very tentative and has trouble committing to reads ime. like i don't really know what he's thinking here or where he thinks scum is and like every read has to be dragged out of him

he unvoted you after i prodded him multiple times over the fact that his reason for scumreading you here was on meta that wasn't relevant to this particular situation because in the meta he was referencing you were a town pr; i would kinda expect him to follow that up with some thoughts about where scum *is* if it isn't you but he didn't

[skitter30]

i think on some fundemental level we view anti-associatives differently because i still believe my behavior around the ap lynch in jungle republic should have been clearing, and i also believe that ausuka's behavior around the ap lynch in this game ought to be clearing too

This though, combined with ignoring points about other scummy behaviour is exactly why it's so dangerous.

You're basically saying that no amount of scuminess can ever overcome reducing our pool from say 10 to 5? I don't know what the exact numbers were at the time, but if you want a reason for why scum would do that, it's right there, you're clearing them.

but i don't think her behavior is scummy tho; like the things you're viewing as scummy i don't think is scummy here, and yes, i think that her ap/pgo thing is the single-most important thing she's done wrt figuring out her alignment

i think that there's a vast difference between 'we know that scum probably have a pgo/vig somewhere in the playerlist' vs 'we know that there is (a probably) scum pgo within this select group of people'

the lurking now is kinda meh but i think it's site-wide so i don't think it's particularly ai for this game in particular

==

ok this is more like the town!mylo that i was looking for :p

i don't really understand your paranoia of ausuka tho

@mylo why is brass town? can you point to a game or two where you read him correctly?

[skitter30]

going through cardi's iso

-> looking back to like really early game i'm kinda wondering if she was trying to pocket me, given that she's had a fairly strong townread on me since she repped in basically that hadn't really wavered (632) and was also like defending me to other people (640) and 656

-> 634 - not entirely sure why sh'es giving ap townpoints there? that was a classic nai ap shitpost

-> she's also reinforcing townreads on her (/ her slot); in 632 she highlights the townping i had on brass and in 639 she kinda crows that brass is in ruru's townblock

-> having ap in her townreads and vizzy in her 'hot maybes' in 664 is kinda meh

-> also don't really like her vizzy vote shortly thereafter (786) given that she had recently listed him in her 'hot maybe's, especially since in the next post she asked oka why he was even on the table; like what she was saying oka did in 819 she kinda did herself

-> i kinda like her sky read in 1092; and her response to ofrhz's case too;

-> i don't know if she admits to wanting to wanting to unvote vizzy after the ap lolhammer as scum? 1093; i kinda see the beginnings of her fake-cop claim starting from here-ish, with the hypo-inno on oka; if she was scum she had to have been planning it from at least the day before

-> defending ap as a maybe!doc day2 is kinda meh; she had been pushing the notion that ap was maybe holding some things close to his chest day1; maybe scum!ap had been planning on fake-claiming for a while in case he got run up and that's something they had discussed? i still kinda disagree with her meta assessment of ap as being closeted/holding-things-close-to-his-chest and hadn't really gotten that vibe from him

-> and voting vulcan over ap is :/

-> i don't know if scum puts themselves in the lynchpool after both partners have flipped tho (1349)

ok i got up to the fake-cop claim day3 and i'm going to pick up from here later

tldr her associatives with ap/vizzy are kinda worse than i remembered

there are a few things that are kinda townie but i think her :/ associatives kinda outweigh them in this part of her iso tbh

[skitter30]

Idk

My best guess is that he was either trying to claim his way out of a lynch and/or try to force a cc

I'm feeling a little bit lost rn

I don't think it's ausuka or ofrhz, and probably not mylo either

I don't particularly townread sando but i dont particularly scumread him either. I do think that its kinda risky for scum!sando to start a thing on town!ausuka and not to back down here tho

My townread on cardi is kinda fading

[skitter30]

Huh, i hadnt thought of that

I'm not sure though if scum that far down tries for the doc/rb slot though, given that it's pretty likely to have been taken already (i dont know if town that far down does either actually)

[skitter30]

continuing with cardi, starting at 1349

-> 1349 - i don't know if scum put themselves in the lynchpool. now that i think about it, her lynchpool (cardi, vulcan, music) consists of the lynchbait-y people and iirc she was on both of those lynches

-> i think scum probably doesn't say that ap was more likely to hammer if the other scum were on the wagon if they themselves were on the wagon 1360

-> i had forgetten about this, but reading through day4 again i'm again seeing those vibes where she kinda seems like she just wanted to get out of the game. i kinda feel like she just didn't care how that happened, be it nk from fakinig a cop claim, or via lynch. i guess, idk. i can kidna understand why last scum would be fatalistic in that position, but i think she did sort of expect to be nk'd imo in 1470 and scum don't naturally kinda imply that they expect to be nk'd

-> idk i still kinda feel like faking cop is kinda ballsy and just attracts the wrong kind of scruity that scum would try to avoid if they want to try to make endgame as last scum, unless she really didn't think she had a chance of winning and just wanted the game to end already

-> start of day4 she did seem kinda ... i don't know the right word, manic almost, kinda waiting in thread to see how she'd be percieved now that she outed that she was faking

-> scum!her would have to take it back because mechanically clearing someone each night is kinda mechanical suicide + she'd have to explain why she wasn't dead at endgame

-> i don't like how she went from hypo-inno'ing vulcan day3 to pushing his mislynch day4; if she's scum she kinda went the easy route of pushing someone very mislynchable; specifically how she changed her mind that ap wouldn't vote a scumbuddy at the end of day2 to saying that ap could have voted his buddy.

-> i think her scumhunting post-fake-claim feels kinda genuine though? like 1561, also like 1611

-> idk her activity during much of day5 feels kinda float-y if that makes sense

tldr - her associatives with ap/vizzy are kinda icky. i'm still kinda stuck on the fake-claim thing; i just don't know if last scum invites that sort of scrutiny at that point. i am also wondering if she just thought she was fucked after the two scumflips and just kinda wanted the game to end so didn't care about the implications of the claim that much; once she was not a major lynch candidate her activity picked up.

brass's associatives with vizzy are also kinda meh

on associatives i think her slot is kidna where i'd expect a partner to be for most of the game; the vizzy vote didn't seem like the culmination of a natural scumread + townreading both ap and vizzy earlier + voting for ap's cw + brass's vizzy distancing

i guess the fake-claim thing to me depends on how she views day3 as scum, and whether or not she likes playing it; if she doesn't like playing scum the day3/day4 fatalism is also kinda what i think scum may have been thinking around there-ish

i do think that her scumhunting later game feels kinda genuine tho; also i'm not sure if last-scum really does make a shitty cop fake-claim that they'd have to recant shortly thereafter; i feel like she'd have more concern over the optics of such a fake-claim as scum

i don't know if the towniness of her lategame scumhunting outweighs the associatives

i'm also thinking that i don't really want cardi's slot to be in mylo if we're wrong today

[skitter30]

@cardi: do you like playing scum?

[skitter30]

i want to try to iso sando before deadline too

[skitter30]

i think that dropping it to support a lynch on a fairly lynch-bait-y player is scummy; scum!her needs those mislynches

wrt the whole hypo-inno thing itself - i think is anti-town but not very likely to come from scum in a vaccuum because i feel like last-scum wouldn't want to deliberately put themselves in a scummy position where they can be pushed for faking a claim; like if last-scum wants to make endgame making up a bad hypo-inno fake-claim thing that they recant after a day is not the way to really evade scrutiny; this is why i was townreading her earlier

the thing is that rereading i saw again that a lot of her posts in that part of the game are kinda fatalistic and don't really seem to be coming from the perspective that she wants to survive the game long-term at all; i think day3 scum!cardi may have just felt like she was in an untenuous position and just kinda tried whatever came to mind to see how far she could get but wasn't really planning long-term, and that upon realizing it was unviable long-term recanted

basically i think that the hypo-inno thing is unlikely to come from scum who is trying to play long-term but if she thought she was fucked she may have just tried it to get people off her back just then without worrying about the long-term implications; the fact that her posts from around there indicate that she wanted to die and/or wanted the game to end kinda supports this imo

i wish i knew who she was so i can check if she likes playing scum in a general sense - i feel like someone who doesn't like to play scum and/or is less confident about their scumgame is less likely to try to pull something like that as scum there

[skitter30]

'whole shtick' - you mean the cardi roleplay or the hypo-inno?

cardi roleplay is kinda nai; i think that rp in general is anti-town + kinda scummy if people make their posts hard to read on purpose but she moderated the roleplay when people said they were having trouble reading it and is willing ot translate so i don't think it's scummy here

i think the hypo-inno may have come from cornered scum who didn't think they would survive long and didn't really want to play out the game and/or didn't think they could play out the game and was just kinda trying to see what they could get to stick without thinking about the long-term implications

hypo-inno itself i don't think comes from scum in most cases; i think negating a clear on someone you'd need to mislynch is scummy

day3 people were playing around lynching vulcan because of the hypo-inno so if that was still in play i don't know if vulcan would have gotten lynched that day

[skitter30]

i thought she was doing it to make it harder to figure out her main tbh; i've seen scum before use the rp to make it harder for people to read them as they normally would (alisae in mkultra)

i kinda want her to talk about how she views her scumgame

day3 massclaim, hypo-innos vulcan; lynchpool was cj/vulcan/cardi; day3 we lynch cj; beginning of day4 she retracts it and pushes vulcan and we lynch vulcan

[skitter30]

i thought she was doing it to make it harder to figure out her main tbh; i've seen scum before use the rp to make it harder for people to read them as they normally would (alisae in mkultra)

i kinda want her to talk about how she views her scumgame

day3 massclaim, hypo-innos vulcan; lynchpool was cj/vulcan/cardi; day3 we lynch cj; beginning of day4 she retracts it and pushes vulcan and we lynch vulcan

Ok that timeline is scummy, agreed.

Yeah I see where you're coming from, what I'm saying is that these two statements don't correlate imo:

• Cardi D3 play is indicative of scum that aren't confident scum
  Cardi is roleplaying to make it harder to figure out her main

I think if she's roleplaying to make it harder to figure out her main, she's confident scum.

i hadn't thought about it like that actually; that's actually a fairly good point; someone not super confident in their scumgame probably doesn't have a game-long gimmick that people might push her over; and she feels kinda organic posting that way too; like the writing style itself feels kinda organic and not like forced or anything; like i think she's using it to hide her main, not to really deceive people about her intentions in this game or her alignment; like alisae in mkultra was using it to avoid posting real content and i don't exactly think that's what cardi's doing here

i don't know why she was feeling fatalistic at that point of the game but holistically i'm tending towards her with her playstyle/personality not doing it. like she feels very thoughtful/methodological/effort-y (see things like: researching brass's last scumgame and linking it as evidence that she isn't scum; looking at the gerrymandering game to check my postcount etc) and i realy feel like as last scum she would have put more effort into how the claim would have been perceived so as not to put herself in this position when the game was riding on her as scum

like the only way i'm really seeing her do it as scum is if she felt like her back was against the wall and that she just didn't give a fuck about the game overall and was scrambling for anything but while she was fine being lynched and wanted the game to end i realized that this was more in like day4, after she outed that she had faked, and not really in day3 and day2, while she was actually faking it and giving hypo-innos and actually doing the fake-claim thing. also now that i think about it she started it i think before ausuka even outed the pgo-thing iirc (or just about thereish);

ok i just checked it *was* after ausuka outed the pgo thing; i was thinking that if it was before that happened it would have been before ap was in trouble so the whole last-scum thing wouldn't have even been a factor at all

like i think it only comes from scum!her if she felt like scum were fucked and she didn't care and wanted the game to end but she had started it before ap got lynched and while *i* was getting wagoned for the pgo thing and i don't know why scum!her has that mindset at that point tbh

cardi's scumhunting this phase also feels really townie to me tbh; i did agree with ofrhz that her questions seemed kinda ? but i like the followup today with the question she asked sando

also mylo is vouching for town!brass and i don't' think scum!mylo passes up the oppurtunity for that mislynch and i looked at the games mylo linked and it does seem he has a pretty good history of reading him

also like everything she posted just now feels townie as fuck tbh

[skitter30]

Have you made any effort to sort me by like reading my posts and deciding if you want to lynch me (I think arguing this would be justified if you did) instead of just saying "uhh ACTUALLY ausuka isn't clear"? Because it seems like you have an issue with me being widely townread but you also don't seem to be willing to push me very much.

Ahh I was asked for my reads, got attacked for scumreading you because you're "locktown" and have been defending (attacking?) that ever since. Turning around and whinging that I'm attacking locktown status without reading is kinda ridiculous right now.

You've literally never voted for any scum and you've lynched two townies, claiming that you're locktown is out of proportion with what happened.

Tunneling etc. but this just feels like he found something that he feels is objectively scummy from a townie

Like idk this feels really like

he's tryna do talking points

n whateva and nobody else is really doing that at D5

yeah this is kinda what i was saying earlier; like the things he's pushing ausuka for feel kinda shallow and not really holistically taking in the whole picture

[skitter30]

Sando do u think town's gonna win or lose

Town still in strong position, but need to actually turn on to pull it out, I'd give it a "more likely than not".

Do you have nothing to say about what Aus/me/Ofhrz have said or are we going with the existential questions today?

The reason I asked is bc I don't get any sense that Sando is thinking about what he needs to do as town to win

Like ausuka has been more or less locktowned by several people which means if she's scum she pretty much wins like 100% of the time since she can just nightkill favoring that. Like he might be one of the people that just doesn't think like that but like: if the person he's voting/pushing in the last few pages is scum then town is pretty clearly well on the course to losing? And he's not doing anything about it (like for example bein like "yall gotta look at ausuka when I flip or yall muffuckas gon get shit on in postgame" or somm like that)

He also said mylo was a top SR I think? And idk if that lynch happens over me

like this post feels really really townie to me

i had felt that the questions she was asking earlier felt kinda inane but this follow-up shows why she asked it: that she was trying to figure out sando's mindset and what he, as town, thought we ought to do to win this

[skitter30]

Fine Skitter, I see your point

what point do you see?

[skitter30]

going through cardi's iso

Think Ive talked about a couple of the reads u didnt like

Trd vizzy initially bc I saw at some point he had made endgame at some point as scum in a micro (dunno what game or what it was like) which usually makes me think someone is more active / pockety

Went back on it bc ofhrz said something about his content not being AI & htat skitter thought his votes were dishonest

AP just thot I could metaread too easy & @te $hit

so the vizzy read was purely meta - based on how you thought he'd behave as scum? you didn't actually like read the game or anything?

i guess what's bothering me about vizzy is that you were 'hot maybe'ing him for a while but hopped on as his wagon was picking up and that's kinda where i'd expect a bussing vote to be + you were shading oka's vote while voting with him

[skitter30]

I think I was thinkin about unvoting around when AP hammered tho.

but idk if scum says this about their vote on the vizzy wagon the next day

she hasn't like tried to get cred for that vote really or anything

[skitter30]

Cardi, Cj, Music and Music wasnt lynched lmao

lol you're right

i think i conflated cardi with cj or something

[skitter30]

@cardi: do you like playing scum?

Cardi love finessin

Spoiler:

but i myself have not liked it in almost 2 years, no

i feel as though elaborating on this too much would sort of break site expectations about using an alt, if that's fair

no, that's fair i think

[skitter30]

wrt the whole hypo-inno thing itself - i think is anti-town ...

I think that its way, way protown in the event I get nk'd (or protected even)

and in the case that it didn't I don't see how it negatively affected town

Like you're townreading me for it for example lmao

i meant in a general wifom-y sense

[skitter30]

i thought she was doing it to make it harder to figure out her main tbh

[generally not much of a consideration in this list]

huh

that's why i thougth you were doing it

[skitter30]

fucks sake some of cardi's posts today are really town

skitter you need to give a mylo read before eod

yeah agree on cardi

tending town on mylo; don't want to lynch him today really

[skitter30]

Ok what? How is this townie or true?

When have you seen me flip out and yell "y'all motherfuckers better lynch skitter tomorrow or you're dead"? Shit, last game we played I called you town while you mislynched me...

To me this looks like Cardi asked an incredibly open ended question and then just made up some reasoning for why to scumread it. Both questions were like this.

My point is that i think her approach to those questions were townie - i think she was using them to get into your head to try to figure out what you were thinking; i often use very, very open-ended questions in order to get to my point from a kinda sideways angle so that people don't give me the answer they think i want to hear and that's kinda what i see her doing here

and like you said, in jungle republic, you were very emphatically stating that you townread me as you got mislynched and told people to just trust me - you did your best to leave town with some sort of plan/advice that you felt was essential to winning after you're gone, and you aren't really doing that here - you dropped the ausuka read for a retalitory cardi scumread as she became the most viable cw to you

==

Like what the actual fuck? How is that not just desperately looking to read scum onto Sando? Not to mention, I haven't been fucking apathetic today. There was clearly literally nothing I could have said to get townread there. That's scummy AF.

i kinda agree with her tbh; town's had a very, very long slog of three gamedays after getting those early lynches and haven't been very successful at scumhunting since then and apathy has kinda set in

i don't really like the ate either

==

i'm pretty much willing to be the game on it not being ausuka or ofrhz

i think mylo has been kinda townie for him; i don't really think it's him either

cardi's early game associatives are kinda meh and her middlegame is wifom-y but post hypo-inno i think her scumhunting has been on point and she just feels really, really, really townie to me this dayphase

sando has kinda had large swaths of nai-ness and some particular instances of towniess (like going after ausuka here when i don't really think she's lynchable) and overall i just townread him less than everyone else

also logistically i don't know if another lynch is possible here given that mylo won't lynch cardi and i don't know if ausuka will show up before deadline

[skitter30]

i fucking hate holding hammer

[skitter30]

i think i want to do this the most right now

VOTE: sando

[skitter30]

quack

[skitter30]

kinda wondering why i'm not dead right now

ofrhz was kinda an odd nk imo; like she was townread by me and ausuka and cardi too sorta but i think me and ausuka were more townread? the kill kinda points to cardi i think; i'm not sure who else makes that kill or why

i also think i need to go back over oka's end-of-day2 iso because that nk is kinda bothering me too; i don't really know who nk's oka there over enigma after he got ap lynched

==

if we no-lynch i think it ought to be done sooner rather than later so as not to give scum insight into who to choose for the nk; although tbh that goal may have been kinda ruined already by mylo and cardi stating their suspicions so at this point i think that may already be a lost cause

wrt hammer-testing, i'm still pretty solid on ausuka being town given the pgo thing and honestly i'm willing to gamble the game on her being town at this point.

the one thing i want to keep in mind wrt hammer-testing people is that we can't no-lynch after hammer-testing one individual; that would effectively give town an inno that scum will prob kill overnight and would kinda defeat the purpose

atm i think i'm tending towards cardi tbh; mylo i think has demonstrated that *carefree* town he kinda exhibits as town at the end of yesterday and today

==

assuming we decide to vote today, i need to do my due diligence and check a bunch of things before i vote, including the isos of flipped scum and probably reread day1 and day2 too

[skitter30]

ye if no-lynch happens it's gotta be done before people start talking and listing reads and suspicions and i think it's too late for that now

i think that's mostly where i am too; i still don't think it's you from the ap/pgo thing, and mylo has exhibited that *townie tone* and is trying to gamesolve and is just very, very, very sincere and earnest and ... guileless is a good word i think; i don't think he can fake that really

since you're feeling paranoid about me, let me know if there's anything in particular you want to talk about

i don't really know why i'm alive either; i seem to have some uncanny ability to make xylo, even with people who (i think ought to) know better - ie i've been nk'd like three times ever and i've only ever been mislynched in 3way lylo twice and i've made xylo every other game i've played

i'm slightly concerned that i might be here because scum think that i'm going to vote wrong today; that tends to be the reason why i don't get nk'd, that scum think my reads are wrong. i was between cardi and sando yesterday and i'm tending towards cardi today. the thing is that if scum isn't cardi and wanted me to vote her i don't know if ofrhz would have been the nk last night given how hard she was pushing her for the past few days

i don't think mylo like ever makes that nk; i don't see much motivation for it to come from ausuka either tbh

[skitter30]

mylo, i hope you feel better

	Ausuka	Cardi B	Myloninja13	skitter30
ruru	Townlean	Townlean	Townlean	Town
OkaPoka	Scumlean	Null	Null	Scumlean
ceejayvinoya	Townlean	Null	Town	Town
Enigma	Town	Scumlean	Null	Town
vulcan logician	Scumlean	Scumlean	Null	Townlean
Skygazer	Town	Null	Scumlean	Town
Sando	Scumlean	Scumlean	Townlean	Town
ofrhz	Townlean	Scumlean	Townlean	Town

made this thing for reads of the dead? not sure how helpful it is but w/e

i think that from this, cardi looks the worst. i also think that at least some of the nks at least were made for mechanical/pr reasons, and not for read reasons

odd ones out are ofrhz and oka; i think cardi has the most motivation for the ofrhz one, but the oka kill still kinda bothers me because it doesn't *fit* any of you really; i don't really know why anybody kills oka over enigma there tbh


==

i think i'm going to vote cardi but i think she should have the oppurtunity to come back and say whatever she would like before i vote; mylo's been kinda obvtown for him and i don't think ausuka is partners with ap

also headsup, i'm going to be v/la for several days next week without internet access; although i should be around saturday night and sunday morning

@duckling

i'm going to be v/la sunday-tuesday night or wednesday

[skitter30]

VOTE: cardi

[skitter30]

Gg everyone, thanks tw for moddding!

[skitter30]

hi schadd

i dont' think i would have ever guesed it was you (also don't think i ever played with you before)

i also don't think that i would have come close to lynching you as town since you were like insanely obvtown and town!me would have like reread the entire game like twice in lylo before voting anywhere, and wouldn't have just settled for you cuz feels

but you dangled hammertesting me and i really really really wanted that to be a thing without having to go through the effort of faking rereading the entire game

[skitter30]

i was kinda running out of energy midway through day5 and just kinda stopped posting here; i don't have the motivation to win a scumgame like i do a towngame and my motivation just kinda petered out a few days before the sando lynch

i also thought i was going to get a lot of flak for that sando hammer

also i was kinda annoyed when mylo said he was music - that would have been my easiest mislynch ~day5 but he knows i know how to read him so i couldn't push that once it was known music = mylo and so instead mylo became my like highest townread like duh

also schadd i kinda believed the cop hypo-innos you were putting out; that's the reason why enigma died - i wanted to keep him alive longer since he hardtownread me but if there was a cop in play i needed you gone before i became mechanically poe'd and to kill the maybe? cop claim i needed to kill the doc first

[skitter30]

i was kinda annoyed that i kept on having to kill people who were townreading me for mechanical reasons - some of the prs would put me in a bad spot at endgame if they were alive, and i also needed to kill them to explain why i was alive at endgame given how strongly i was townread

[skitter30]

dead pt too pls

[skitter30]

'i am not authorized to read that topic'

[skitter30]

thank you

Subject: OPEN 732 : PICK YOUR POWER X/Y : DEAD THREAD

aside from that one associative I feel like she's most likely to get caught by not being shot because her towngame is strong

I feel like ideally she would be caught by people like you or me spamming the thread too much to be scumread because her wallposts are a lot easier for scum to fake but like we're dead so lol

ftr this is basically exactly why oka died - i would have killed sky but i was going to maybe actually claim watcher and i would have needed to watch her (or cliam to watch her at least) that night so i oculdn't kill her

and oka was townread and kinda spammy and a lot less ... predictable and changes reads ephemerally i can't really match that with how i play scum; like i play by keeping track of everything and planning around things and his reads changed to fast for me to organically adapt to

i wasn't really pr-reading him (i sincerely thought vulcan was vengeful until oka flipped) but i knew that he would make dayplay a lot harder for me

and enigma didn't die because i knew he was doc and could plan around him and i knew exactly what his reads were (and coincidentally he was hard townreading me)

[skitter30]

Subject: OPEN 732 : PICK YOUR POWER X/Y : DEAD THREAD

Kill ausuka and sando,

Left with cardi, orfhz, music town

From this game I don't think orfhz and music have the capability to stand up to skitter. Cardi is an ez lynch to sell

sando wasn't remotely nk'able

after enigma it was sky for being conftown, and then i thought it woudl be ausuka and that i'd start running into trouble

there eren't enough viable nk's for me to make really and still be alive in lylo; i was really, really hoping that it woudln't come to that point

but ofrhz became universally townread at some point day5 and i thought i could get away with either ofrhz -> ausuka or the other way around if it came down to mylo

and ofrhz got nk'd over ausuka that last night because i thought mylo would buy the wifom of ofrhz scumreading cardi and ofrhz dying

i don't think i could have gotten away with nk'ing sando at any point this game

[skitter30]

Subject: OPEN 732 : PICK YOUR POWER X/Y : DEAD THREAD

she writes with such CONVICTION its a pain in the butt reading her

Not revising on me was getting pretty obvious, but it's the sort of thing you can only see from inside. Also shes just agreeing with terrible logic, ain't no way those logicians are gonna call her out for that.

Also fuck anyone who wants to complain about mechanical talk, it's the one thing you can't fake and consistently catches scum. Skitters place in the draft should have implicated her, but mechanics are scary bro.

yeah, i know, sorry

my position on your lynch was actually really, really, really bad

and you were the only person in the game that i didn't think i could out-argue at that point because you made so much damn sense

i was kinda running out of motivation tho and just wanted the day to be over so i could have a break and like ... not have to post for a while so i just decided to hammer you because then you wouldn't be there to call me out on my illogic, but nothing i said there made much sense at all. like it sounded good but didn't actually mean anything or explain why i was voting you. i did wonder if anybody was going to notice that i didn't scumread you at any point till like the day before i voted you

i did think cardi was going to give me *a lot* of flak for that hammer so i was kinda surprised when she started the next day wanting to hammer-test me

[skitter30]

Yeah i tried to avoid it if at all possible because it's not something i can fake easily and somehiw you never really made it into a thing :p