Open 735: Watchmen Wanted - Game Over!
- northsidegal
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i mean i made it clear later that i never voted GNB because nothing of what he said ever actually seemed scummy to me - it was just something that didn't make sense to me. is it unreasonable to try to elicit more from a statement that you don't think makes sense? i don't think so - even if i don't end up scumread that person, it at least gets the game moving.- Toranaga
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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we do disagree, yeah. if it's scummy or not from you to think that I'll only know when you flip.In post 748, northsidegal wrote:
-shrug-In post 747, Toranaga wrote:but in a post that's overrall towny and from a perspective that NSG has no reason to believe it comes from scum.
it sounds like we just disagree on whether or not that's actually towny. that's to say nothing of my current read on tw or even what my read on GNB was - just whether or not GNB's original posts were town indicative or not.
you're townreading TW yes?- Toranaga
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oh god you're all posting walls again and it's only page 3
I can't read this, it's too boring
ok I'mma skim stuff and figure out where I'm leaning
NSG, why do you think dunn is scum and why are you townreading ausuka?- northsidegal
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where did he say that it made things harder for him? as far as i understood it, it was just something that bothered him, and something that he didn't think would hold true for anything. which raises the question (at least, in my mind), if someone comes to a correct conclusion but through an incorrect method, should you really bother making a huge deal about it?In post 749, Toranaga wrote:GNB just said that, in last game when he was town, everyone started just townreading him on effort and that made things harder for him in that game. so naturally he doesn't want the same thing to repeat itself and end up in a similar situation. why is that fake? and why would he fake it? he is already being pretty LAMIST-y without saying he doesn't want a townread, so adding this part and referring to a game in which the same thing probably did happen just doesn't read at all like something he is faking, and IDK why that's how you're reading into this.
obviously if someone uses that method to townread someone else that'd be something to raise alarm about if you don't think the method is valid. however, you know your own alignment (presumably town), and so the reason for someone townreading you doesn't really matter much as long as they're right (and as long as you don't think the reason that this hypothetical person has come up with is scum-indicative in itself, if that makes sense).
i think you may have misinterpreted my use of the word "fake". i didn't use it to imply that he waslyingor misrepresenting the situation in some other game - not at all. i used it in terms of describing his thought process, which didn't make sense to me as actually coming from town. i have no doubts that what he said about getting townread in that other game was actually true.- Toranaga
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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thisIn post 22, GameNBurger wrote:Also nobody dare TR me for that I did a bunch of shitty math only to come to the conclusion that its business as usual as far as claiming goes
in my last game a bunch of people town read me simply for effort and It blew my fucking minds as to why
I put up with it because I was town and people were having a hard time reading me but I'd like to get it out there that effort is not a one to one correlation with scuminess
a lack of effort is a good indicator of scum but a presence of effort does not indicate town
Anyways let that be a lesson to never do gametheory math late at night because youre bound to make idioitic mistakes, theres still a not great part of the stupidly simple model i used that doesn't account for the fact that T contains M in it, I should have broken it into P=t+M for more generalized use to make the death equation a bit easier to see the relationships
also... I was in that game. I know why he was bothered. basically, no one liked much of what GNB said but it was so many words it was hard to think it ever came from scum. I think that annoyed him cause people started to clear him without interacting with his posts in any meaningful way.- northsidegal
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-shrug-In post 751, Toranaga wrote:you're townreading TW yes?
i'm not scumreading him at the moment, and like i said i would imagine that if he were scum who bussed volxen he would've gone for more scum theater, which i don't recall (speaking purely from memory)
i think dunnstral's day one could easily be seen in the context of being partnered with volxenIn post 752, Toranaga wrote:NSG, why do you think dunn is scum and why are you townreading ausuka?
i think he has yet to do anything actually town-indicative
i think he's disengaged in a way that may be more scum-indicative
and, on more specific levels:
i think this post is scum indicativeIn post 385, Dunnstral wrote:tinfoil theory: Eragon is scum and his partner(s) felt the need to welcome him in thread to try to seem like they're not talking in pt
Not a serious theory jsut something to consider I guess
and i still think that he was being entirely unreasonable when it came to representing what i was actually trying to say regarding Kop. i think town dunnstral is normally pretty reasonable, so the lack of that raises alarm for me.- northsidegal
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getting townread and people ignoring your posts are two entirely different issuesIn post 754, Toranaga wrote:also... I was in that game. I know why he was bothered. basically, no one liked much of what GNB said but it was so many words it was hard to think it ever came from scum. I think that annoyed him cause people started to clear him without interacting with his posts in any meaningful way.
if your posts getting ignored is what upsets you then it makes sense to make comments regarding that. getting townread for reasons you believe are invalid is entirely unrelated to that subject matter.- northsidegal
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if there's somewhere specific you want to end up with in this debate then i would be interested to hear it
barring that i don't think it's actually particularly productive to continue this discussion.- Toranaga
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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those things are definitely correlated. if GNB wasn't being townread on effort, or if he was but his posts were challenging and made people interact with him, he wouldn't be ignored.In post 756, northsidegal wrote:
getting townread and people ignoring your posts are two entirely different issuesIn post 754, Toranaga wrote:also... I was in that game. I know why he was bothered. basically, no one liked much of what GNB said but it was so many words it was hard to think it ever came from scum. I think that annoyed him cause people started to clear him without interacting with his posts in any meaningful way.
if your posts getting ignored is what upsets you then it makes sense to make comments regarding that. getting townread for reasons you believe are invalid is entirely unrelated to that subject matter.
and yeah if you wanna drop the discussion, sure let's drop it. I see reasoning behind the dunn scumread and he is something I've scumread for a good part of d1. I think dunn is town cause I think he is right about ausuka being scum though, and the way he is laying out the scumread feels natural and not things wolves do for distance.- Toranaga
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that's re: dunnstrall and good reasons to scumread him early onIn post 79, Irrelephant11 wrote:No my vote was RVS but I can't decide how to feel about his one post being a response to Burger's game theory stuff. He didn't participate in RVS, or correct Burger on the definition of hypoclaiming, or suggest anything was AI
It's the lack of content from a player that has shown up that I find interesting- Toranaga
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awkward...
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oh wellIn post 111, Ausuka wrote:Spoiler: northsidegal
Spoiler: Sesq
Spoiler: 2 718281828459 (replaced Saudade)
Spoiler: Keyser Söze
Spoiler: volxen
Spoiler: GameNBurger
Spoiler: Irrelephant11
Spoiler: Reundo
@gamenburger: you mentioned keyser was being a bit stiff about sesq. can you like elaborate on if that actually makes you scumread him?
@volxen: why do you think scum!GNB argues that people will tr him for mechanics when he doesn't actually believe that?
this is very hedgy but I do like some of it
I'll have to ISO dunn now- the worst
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I'm starting to swing the other wayIn post 742, Toranaga wrote:
I know you were translating from quackspeak but... do you townread anything ausuka did this game? I'm having a hard time ever getting out of this read if it's a tunnel so I'm gonna need a ton of help if you're leaning any other way.In post 739, the worst wrote:
I'm town, so is Tora AND also most likely Ausuka & hOpEfUlLy NSG!In post 731, Eragon wrote:Quack Quack tora QUACK quack quack quality Ausuka QuAcK NSG!
Quack translator Quack Worst Quackity?
she can case and post a bit as scum but nowhere near as much as town and it comes across as a lot less fluid/comfortable when it's coming from scum!suka
her "I'm town and you fucks should know it" reaction and recent posting comes from town her before scum her, I was just starting to panic a little due to some volxen associatives (her=>him not the other way round)
I can pretty easily put it down to bad luck on d1. she's probably fine.
there's a few things from her d1 which I think are slightly town indicative but my townread is more a current trending thing- the worst
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I didn't til I dove into it either but I think there's an interesting conversation there in retrospect. want me to grab some quotes?In post 746, northsidegal wrote:
from day one? don't really remember it much, honestly.In post 740, the worst wrote:Nsg nsg nsg what did you think of Ausuka's vca and interactions with volxen? but also her posting?- the worst
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fyi when I read ausuka's ISO before reading this thread I was like "aw crap my cuz rolled scum against me" but in real time/context she came across a lot townier
post volxen flip I actually think it's up/down/up, her earlier posting is towny, it feels like there ~could~ be some partner interactions, her current posting is back to being pretty much fine.
Idk man I've got stronger reads but we may as well play this mountainousesque so I'mma lynch up my read list
Dunn is a better one today I think- the worst
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also realising this setup is interesting from an NKA POV
it actually means the finale is more likely to consist of the towniest players who are actually town.
like scum are forced to NK counter intuitively- Ausuka
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But if he's scum can't you likeIn post 729, Keyser Söze wrote:
My bad, I honestly just wanted the ammunition from your flip to gain clarity with my scum read of Toranaga (if that makes sense). I know this sounds anti-town, but it made sense in my head when I voted you.In post 715, Ausuka wrote:Keyser just likes sheeping confident people I guess. Still think he's town.
lynch him
instead of lynching somebody else to prove a point who you apparently don't really scumreadNo matter what happens, I'll be right there with you.- Ausuka
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why say this and how do you read me now?In post 730, northsidegal wrote:i think maybe i townread ausuka too quickly, though i'm not sure (again, entirely from memory).No matter what happens, I'll be right there with you.- Ausuka
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did i do vca? i'm like 99% sure i didn't?In post 740, the worst wrote:what did you think of Ausuka's vcaNo matter what happens, I'll be right there with you.- Ausuka
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haven't you already read this post if you scumread me? why do you change your mind about it now when you said it was scummy in 699 (you said you'll let someone else case it because it's long complicated posting, implying that it's scummy)In post 761, Toranaga wrote:
oh wellIn post 111, Ausuka wrote:Spoiler: northsidegal
Spoiler: Sesq
Spoiler: 2 718281828459 (replaced Saudade)
Spoiler: Keyser Söze
Spoiler: volxen
Spoiler: GameNBurger
Spoiler: Irrelephant11
Spoiler: Reundo
@gamenburger: you mentioned keyser was being a bit stiff about sesq. can you like elaborate on if that actually makes you scumread him?
@volxen: why do you think scum!GNB argues that people will tr him for mechanics when he doesn't actually believe that?
this is very hedgy but I do like some of it
I'll have to ISO dunn nowNo matter what happens, I'll be right there with you.- Ausuka
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