Open 735: Watchmen Wanted - Game Over!

Toranaga
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: July 26, 2017
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1200  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:48 am

in before she is the watcher

the worst
Snuggly Duckling
 
User avatar
Joined: November 07, 2015
Location: pond

Post Post #1201  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:59 am

In post 1196, Toranaga wrote:Image
ImageImage
ImageImageImage

good post

the worst
Snuggly Duckling
 
User avatar
Joined: November 07, 2015
Location: pond

Post Post #1202  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:00 am

volxen talked more than nsg
did not solve as much as nsg
reads lacked nuance + making sense + relatability of nsg's

idk I felt volxy was just a wolf

Irrelephant11
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: April 09, 2018
Location: They hadn't become unseeing and unfeeling
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1203  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:07 am

VOTE: Keyser Soze

Irrelephant11
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: April 09, 2018
Location: They hadn't become unseeing and unfeeling
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1204  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:07 am

the worst, hop on

Toranaga
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: July 26, 2017
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1205  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:16 am

In post 1202, the worst wrote:volxen talked more than nsg
did not solve as much as nsg
reads lacked nuance + making sense + relatability of nsg's

idk I felt volxy was just a wolf

that's how I feel about nsg

Keyser Söze
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: May 11, 2015
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1206  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:27 am

In post 830, Irrelephant11 wrote:I re-examined how the sesq wagon came about in response to the first volxen wagon

New reads:

Eragon
Reundo
Keyser Söze
Ausuka
Toranaga
Nauci
the worst
northsidegal
Dunnstral

Are you still s/reading Dunnstral bro? (or did you want to talk about that slot?)

Irrelephant11
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: April 09, 2018
Location: They hadn't become unseeing and unfeeling
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1207  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:36 am

yeah I am
I don't think the things you've listed as a wifom towncase add up to town
he didn't know volxen would be the flip when he started to push against that wagon
he was probably hoping to (and almost succeeded) make sesq the lynch instead

but who's your vote now? nsg? hmmm

Keyser Söze
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: May 11, 2015
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1208  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:47 am

Dunnstral has a long list of surface level scum behaviour (none of them knockout factors like you say)
But when you connect all these pieces together you see a picture of a townie continually making the wrong choice:
Both tactically and in terms of keeping people happy.

Keyser Söze
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: May 11, 2015
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1209  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:50 am

In post 1153, Dunnstral wrote:Can somebody remind me why we need me specifically to post more in this game? I don't think I caught that

I will add this to my signature after this game regardless of what Dunnstral flips :lol:
I’ll actually be more impressed if this is scum-Dunnstral talking to the everyone like this, despite having the group scrutiny on his slot. Would even scum-TW get away with this?

Keyser Söze
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: May 11, 2015
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1210  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:53 am

This game is about survival.
And Dunnstral’s supposed scum game isn’t helping him survive.
Scum-Dunnstral gets no benefit out of this or his remaining teammate: even if his partner busses, they’d get no town-cred.
It’s tactical suicide.

I believe scum are in my middle ground reads.

Irrelephant11
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: April 09, 2018
Location: They hadn't become unseeing and unfeeling
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1211  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:01 pm

mmkay

what's your read on tw?

Toranaga
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: July 26, 2017
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1212  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:11 pm

irrelephant, please take your horn outta your ass and townread keyser already thx

Irrelephant11
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: April 09, 2018
Location: They hadn't become unseeing and unfeeling
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1213  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:56 pm

I do townread Keyser I was hoping my vote would make things more interesting than it did

Irrelephant11
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: April 09, 2018
Location: They hadn't become unseeing and unfeeling
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1214  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:57 pm

well, "townread" being too strong a word here actually
I don't prefer him as my #1 lynch option

Have you actually responded to anyone's Keyser cases? There's some goodp oints

Toranaga
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: July 26, 2017
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1215  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:01 pm

can you show me the good points? I haven't answered to anything specifically as far as I can tell, no. but I can if I'm addressed with it.

Irrelephant11
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: April 09, 2018
Location: They hadn't become unseeing and unfeeling
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1216  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:48 pm

In post 592, Reundo wrote:
Spoiler: My Case On Keyser Söze
In post 123, volxen wrote:@Sesq, why not just share with us your reasons for scumreading Keyser? You started the game by taking a slight jab at him in , and then in you said that Keyser is “entirely detached from the state of the game ... but not in a scum way”.

In post 148, volxen wrote:@2.718, are you still scumreading Keyser?

In post 237, volxen wrote: Keyser - I actually like that he started the game by asking about hypoclaiming in , it showed that right off the bat he wanted to strategize on how to potentially make things more difficult for the scumteam. This is only my second game on this site so I don’t have any firsthand experience with hypoclaiming or its effectiveness, but I think it’s not likely that a member of the scumteam would suggest this as a tactic, since it could, theoretically, allow the watcher to reveal who they got a guilty on while making it more difficult for the scumteam to identify the real watcher.

Scum Reads:

2.718 – I really didn’t like his post-RVS opening in . I feel like he tried to completely misrepresent what Keyser really meant when he said that he didn’t want to talk about hypoclaiming/setup past page 1, and even after Keyser clarified this in (that he wasn’t “forbidding” discussion but rather that he didn’t want to partake in it himself), 2.718 still continued to press the issue in .

I also didn’t like that in 2.718 was quick to side with Reundo in the Keyser vs Reundo argument that was going on at the time. 2.718 made the comment here that “Reundo's 46 is a little annoying but I like how he looked at everyone”. At the time, Reundo only had two posts, and , in which he mainly focused on attacking Keyser, with only brief references made to Sesq, GameNBurger, and northsidegal in . 2.718’s post made it sound like Reundo was taking a balanced look at “everyone”, when in reality he was primarily just hammering down on Keyser. I feel like this was a very weak reason for 2.718 to jump in so quickly to side with Reundo.

In post 280, volxen wrote:
In post 256, Irrelephant11 wrote:@Volxen in your previous readslist why did you include more nullreads than scum or town reads?

Reundo is someone that I would like to get a read on, but I’ve been having a very difficult time trying to read him. I REALLY did NOT like the way he started this game in . But I’m not sure if his interactions (and arguments) with Keyser are SvT or TvT (Keyser is still a townread for me). The last time I went through his ISO and reviewed his interactions with Keyser, I ended up just getting really frustrated because I couldn’t get a read on him one way or another. I’m going to review Reundo’s content again, and hopefully I will catch something that I may have missed the first time around.

In post 484, volxen wrote:t like his entrance to the game and the way he attacked Keyser right off the bat, and I think the way he is playing this game is very opportunistic.


First point I was going to make was how volxen was literally obsessed with Keyser as the above quotes show. Even in his scum-read of 2.178 he couldn't help bringing up Keyser and giving yet another HOT TAKE on the whole me verses Keyser debate. This kind of focus is completely unnatural and forced, which could mean one of two things: A)That he was afraid of spewing anyone as town so he thought the best bet was to spew Keyser!town (plausible, but eh) OR B)That he was trying to make his scum-buddy seem as towny as possible, even when it goes way overboard, which is actually more unlikely than A, but becomes increasingly more likely when you take into account that Keyser basically blatantly distanced himself from volxen.

In post 123, volxen wrote:@Sesq, why not just share with us your reasons for scumreading Keyser? You started the game by taking a slight jab at him in , and then in you said that Keyser is “entirely detached from the state of the game ... but not in a scum way”. You also said in that post that you changed your mind about him, which would suggest you no longer found him scummy, but you kept your vote on him anyways. And then in you are apparently back to scumreading him. So why not just explain why you scumread him – is there really anything useful gained by putting it out there that you scumread him, but then refuse to elaborate any further? And what exactly did you mean when you said that he is “detached” from the state of the game, but in a way that is not indicative of him being scum? Trying to understand your motivations here.


This is a really bad entrance, especially according to Keyser's supposed method of scum-hunting: it was a post about a topic that was well over and done with (which he called out me for), a topic that likely wasn't going to lead to any AI responses at all (something that he later called out Dunn for). There was little reason why Keyser WOULDN'T call out volxen for this type of post, except, of course, if they were scum-buddies, which was the first big ping for a volxen/Keyser pairing, which was why I didn't really have any problem switching my vote over to volxen.

I'm not going to quote it here because it's a little long, but when Keyser responded to Ausuka's readslist he pretty much responded to all of her reads except for volxen and GameNBurger (though tbh he did talk about GameNBurger just a bit earlier), which was again blatant distancing between him and volxen.

In post 187, Keyser Söze wrote:I can see / clearly read Volxen’s posts, but don’t feel like they’ve opened up yet (free flowing posting). Feels too laboured/restricted at the moment.


This read of volxen makes no sense, and almost sounds like a town-read (?) which was why it was a little weird when he jumped onto volxen's wagon later in the day.

In post 266, Keyser Söze wrote:@volxen

Are you saying that those three players are scummy for contributing to the apathy/lurking that festers in this game? Or are you just pissed off for being s/read; being our first wagon?


It would make sense to at least try to look like he was pushing the volxen wagon. Not scummy in and of itself, but it implies he scum-reads volxen a little, which is a bit important later on.

In post 368, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 359, Irrelephant11 wrote:I’ll vote Sesq if that’s the lynch

Hey Irrelephant, I'm gonna go the WIFOM route sorry: do you think scum-Sesq would have a bit more survival/verve/urgency in them?


This is literally the only post I couldn't parse from scum!Keyser, but at the same time it would look almost a bit too bad if he jumped onto such easy lynchbait.

In post 374, Keyser Söze wrote:@Irrelephant - yeah gonna try and work an alternative wagon as we head into the deadline


This post, however, pretty much nullifies the affect the last post had, because I couldn't get why town!Keyser would want to move onto a new wagon when he didn't necessarily clear volxen or give any indication whatsoever that he was town-reading him.

That's pretty much all I had on volxen/Keyser distancing (or at least what I've bothered to bring up). I was then just basically going to summarize all the anti-town/scummy things he did this game, including but not limited to...

>Basically only responding to my initial case on him with "town could do the same things I'm doing right now!", which is a pretty petty defense, then when I brought up that I wasn't convinced by this he basically hammered down on the concept while later claiming I was focusing too much on him, despite the fact he basically didn't prove any of my points wrong so I had no reason not to shift focus.
>The fact that out of the whole lynch pool D1, the only player on there who didn't criticize Keyser directly was volxen, his own scum-buddy. His only scum-reads were basically people who criticized him and he was far too happy to throw out town-reads to anyone who town-read him, which completely neglects the possibility of buddying and is not town motivated at all.
>Related to the above, pretty much the way he was happy-go-lucky with everyone who town-read him but super aggressive with anyone who didn't. It wasn't a natural shift in tone, and it certainly wasn't town-motivated. Also, generally not accepting of the fact that people could possibly scum-read Keyser.
>Basically the way he did a complete 180 on me when I didn't suspect him anymore.
>Oh, and the super obvious Huntress night-kill. It's such a scum!Keyser night-kill it's not even funny, really.

There's probably some stuff I forgot, and a lot of the case is a bit rushed because I'm not too motivated to case caught scum so some of the points aren't all that polished, but I feel the above was plenty enough evidence here to convict scum!Keyser. Honestly, I was going to push a the worst/Keyser pairing at the start of the day because I thought the worst was pocketing a bit too much for my taste (and reminded me a lot of my first scum game with him) and the progression to voting volxen didn't really feel natural to me. I thought volxen put only town in his scum-reads because it basically read as a desperate attempt to start another counter-wagon and he wouldn't really want to bus Toranaga in that scenario, but I did suspect him a bit for pushing volxen but never actually voting him until it was clear he had to bus, which was a pretty noticeable ping. I thought Ausuka's votes felt opportunistic as well and I didn't find her initial read very organic, so my lynch plan would've basically been {Keyser, the worst, Toranaga, Ausuka} which would've worked out fine in the end anyhow.


I mean I think you're only response to this was "what? keyser? would be confusing!"

Toranaga
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: July 26, 2017
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1217  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:57 pm

so keyser's scum case is a bunch of thin association reads with volxen and nitpicky angles that don't work

ok

Irrelephant11
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: April 09, 2018
Location: They hadn't become unseeing and unfeeling
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1218  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:08 pm

mmmmmmmmmmmmnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggggggg

I don't know this day has gotten unclear. I feel like I have good townreads but we can't agree who to lynch
where's Reundo
VOTE: the worst

Flicker
Goon
 
User avatar
Joined: April 09, 2018
Pronoun: She

Post Post #1219  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:24 pm

Votecount 2.18

northsidegal (2) - Toranaga , Keyser Söze
Dunnstral (2) - northsidegal , Ausuka
Ausuka (2) - Eragon , Reundo
the worst (1) - Irrelephant11
Keyser Söze (1) - Nauci

Not voting: Dunnstral , the worst

The deadline for Day 2 is 2:17 pm CT on Thursday, September 20, in (expired on 2018-09-20 15:17:24).

Mod notes
    - The worst is V/LA until September 17th.
    - Reundo has been prodded. He has (expired on 2018-09-15 15:24:52) to post before I start searching for his replacement.

northsidegal
Best Mechanical Play/Excellent Moderation/Best Setup
 
User avatar
Joined: August 24, 2017
Pronoun: She

Post Post #1220  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:26 pm

In post 1210, Keyser Söze wrote:This game is about survival.
And Dunnstral’s supposed scum game isn’t helping him survive.
Scum-Dunnstral gets no benefit out of this or his remaining teammate: even if his partner busses, they’d get no town-cred.
It’s tactical suicide.

i think this is fallacious

the fact that someone may not be playing a good scumgame does not preclude that person from being scum. i know that my scum game certainly doesn't help me survive very long, and yet it's not as if i can just choose to not play the way that i do as scum.

basically, you boil someone's scumgame down to a matter of entirely choice, which in my opinion is not a very accurate picture at all.
wiki | modded | Newbie NewD3 Stats | scripts

things fall apart

northsidegal
Best Mechanical Play/Excellent Moderation/Best Setup
 
User avatar
Joined: August 24, 2017
Pronoun: She

Post Post #1221  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:28 pm

irrel, if dunn is still part of your lynchpool then mind joining me on him?
wiki | modded | Newbie NewD3 Stats | scripts

things fall apart

Irrelephant11
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: April 09, 2018
Location: They hadn't become unseeing and unfeeling
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1222  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:28 pm

sure
VOTE: dunnstral
that was a good way of putting what I couldn't find words to argue, btw

northsidegal
Best Mechanical Play/Excellent Moderation/Best Setup
 
User avatar
Joined: August 24, 2017
Pronoun: She

Post Post #1223  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:32 pm

In post 1176, Keyser Söze wrote:Dunnstral:

- defends scum
- opposes wagon on scum
- attacks town
- encourages wagon on town
- not motivated (or happy to be seen to not be motivated) about scum hunting
- no pro-active urgency demonstrated while being the lead wagon today
- weak ISO
- zero town cred won from D1 (Volxen bud was there for the taking)
- zero motivation to gain town cred for D2
- Lame OMGUS read
- minimal WIM


Tora opened up my eyes to town read him via WIFOM.

Scum-Dunstral would never survive to LYLO playing like this.

Proof of the pudding: he’s been in nearly everybody’s POE today, and likely some people will even want to kickstart his wagon before the deadline.

like that same viewpoint is reflected here and in my opinion it's entirely counterintuitive - you're recognizing a lot of reasons for why dunnstral is scum and then coming to the conclusion that "no way would he make it that obvious if he were scum"

and to that i would say

sometimes maybe you should keep it simple and see what happens
wiki | modded | Newbie NewD3 Stats | scripts

things fall apart

Irrelephant11
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: April 09, 2018
Location: They hadn't become unseeing and unfeeling
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1224  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:40 pm

why did you want sesq over volxen lynched last gameday

PreviousNext
[ + ]

Return to Completed Open Games