NY 215: HMS Erebus - Game Over!
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Here are some questions I like to ask people at the start of a game:
1. What is your experience at Mafia?
2.What do you think is the optimal town strategy?
3.What do you think is the optimal scum strategy?
4. What are good ways to scumhunt?
5. What are bad ways to scumhunt?
My answers:
1. I have some experience at playing mafia in real life, but this is only my third game on the site and I don't know all the players yet.
2.I believe a good way to play as a town member is to call out those who are flying under the radar or lurking and trying to question them about their reads and stances on the game. Often times, coming up with fake logic and reads is stressing and difficult for scum players, so asking everyone to constantly explain themselves should catch bad scum very quickly and generate content. Another good tip is to pay attention to people who use meta tells or indecisiveness to justify voting. Those are common methods for scum players to explain why they are voting people without casing them or pointing out specific posts.
3. Being scum is all about looking towny enough that you are not the most suspicious. An easy way to do that is to suspect players throughout the game and then follow up with votes instead of waffling or voting somewhere else. As long as it seems you are trying to solve the game and are reacting to new posts, the lurkers and sheepers in the game will get lynched instead of you. There is no reason to make your fake reads agree with the towns or for them to be good, seemingly bad play is excusable as long as it appears you are trying. Towns aren't as united an enemy as they may seem, they will quickly tear themselves apart if you don't make mistakes.
4. People who dodge your questions somewhat, urge a suspicious player to be voted "later", or give hard defenses are almost always scum in my experience. Scum try to defend their teammates and buddy others, knowing everyone's allignment. Therefore; people who white knight for others or give hard defenses are usually evil. Also, scum love to set conditions on which they will vote their teammates, like a certain player flipping scum, which they know will not happen.
5. Meta tells are bad due to a player's meta being under their control. In addition, doubting someone because they are paranoid or hesistant to vote is usually bad because townies don't know peoples allignments and would be hesitant to trust, so it is perfectly in character for a townie to behave like that. It is far more suspicious if a player is unaturally certain than if a player is hesitant to commit to a wagon.- Completly Trustworthy
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I think IO's vote is too early to be completely serious, but they do probably want me to answer why I questioned Umlaut. It's because I dislike meta being used to justify votes and try to discourage it or question the players doing it more. Also, I thought that it could be a form of early game bussing or a way of setting up negative associates, so I didn't want it to go unquestioned. I've seen members of the scumteam vote for themselves in RVS a lot.- Completly Trustworthy
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If a player were to say they think meta is not a good scumhunting tool in my survey, then voted someone later on for the same reason, I would scumread them due to contradicting their earlier stated opinions. Also, people's reasons for answering questions and reactions to the posed survey can be AI as well. In one of my previous games, a scum player was the first to offer answers. In my experience, scum like doing things to gain towncred, such as being quick to answer my questions. In addition, a town player answering would help me understand their positions and general playstyle while also offering content to talk about. Overall, I find it is usually pretty good to have a RQS if you can get at least four responses from the other players.- Completly Trustworthy
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Here are my reads so far:
Io seems town since they have a similar way of playing to me(questioning everything), have an understandable reason for voting, and made some of the first posts that were not in the RVS stage.
I think Davesaz is town because they are asking good questions like in 65 and 94. So far they seem to be probing players who we need to know more about.
I believe its likely that at least one of Popo and Lapsa is scum. I looked very weak to a push at the time when they voted me up, so they seemed incredibly opportunistic to me. I've seen scum vote up players claiming they want a policy lynch more than I've seen town do it. However, I think it is unlikely both are scum, claiming you want a policy lynch within the first few pages is suspicious enough that two scum would probably not do it together. I'm not sure which is more suspicious. Popo has supplied less content than Lapsa, but Lapsa only claimed he wanted me policy lynched after Popo.
I have mostly neutral reads on everyone else at the moment.- Completly Trustworthy
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The reason I've been asking questions so much is because there have been a lot of people asking for people to be lynched without cases presented or posting reads without anything to back them up like in 108 or 125. Its hard to know whether to support or go against a wagon when you don't even know why people are voting. Also, I find reads with no cases presented suspicious because scum like to throw reads out there to make it seem as if they are making progress with their scumhunting and thus I will naturally question them. Right now, my biggest scumreads are Popo and Lapsa as I said in 101, I've been trying to figure out whether they are just bad townies or scum taking the low hanging fruit for a while. Right now, I'm leaning Lapsa as scum and Popo as bad townie. I"ll make my case as to why I think that after dinner.- Completly Trustworthy
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I don't like your latest post dave. Given that one of Saudade's stated reasons for voting me was because I alienated myself from other players, it seems obvious he thinks I'm scummy because of that. Also, the other question is one that depends on someone's opinion and that varies with no correct answer, I don't understand how that adds to the game or could change your opinion of a player.- Completly Trustworthy
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As I said earlier, I decided that Lapsa was probably scum and Popo town. I believe this because most scum will not make 98 since it limits their options by making any push on someone other than me in the future suspicious. It would be very odd for someone who really wants me policy lynched to vote another person and they would probably get lynched for not providing content in the late game. However, Lapsa has mostly been wishy-washy in their voting and
have changed their opinions with little reasoning involved. For instance, they seemed to suspect tictac or at the very least didn't like something he said in 53, then suddenly wanted me policy lynched in 73, only to later sheep someone else in 109. They've also made some shitposts like 162 and 181. Overall, they have only shaded people and voted for weak reasons.
VOTE: Lapsa
In addition, I am currently townreading Gamma Emerald because the progression from 77 to 189 seemed natural. Umlaut didn't seem more vulnerable to a lynch than Tictac, so I believe that GE is a town player really trying to sort others.- Completly Trustworthy
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I don't understand why Saudade thinks I haven't given stances. I've given many reads and opinions throughout this thread, in fact I think I've taken more stances than many other players. Also, can people respond to 234? Do they agree or disagree with the points raised there?- Completly Trustworthy
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Evolved reads from last few pages:
Io is my best townread because I think they are putting more effort in solving the game than almost anyone else and most scum would not make the mistakes they are making. In addition, they are at the very least being open about their thought process and accepting of new ideas.
I believe Gamma Emerald is likely town because many of the allegations against him seem weak to me(posts can vary in size and complexity after all.) Also, his reads have progressed, which is better than what many other people can claim.
Lapsa- Lapsa's behavior is still erratic and their suspicion of GE is really weird. I don't want to move my vote from him until he starts explaining himself and tries to help the town.
Popopo-I'm not sure what his alignment is, but he's not the best lynch today. I would prefer him lynched late game or shot by vig.
Tictac-I have a mild scum read on him due to most of his votes being weak and the fact that he doesn't seem invested in scumhunting. I think he's just trying to lurk in the background while other people are suspected.
Hugo Stilez-null due to lack of content
Scioness Sajj-Null-scum, I don't like the fact that they haven't really pushed their scumread all that much and voted with little explanation. In fact, they are only giving questions to other people, which seems like actual coasting to me. I really want to see more from them and get some more information about their reads.
Nosferatu-Slight scum for making a lot of shitposts, asking for malakittens to be wagoned without reasoning(potential bussing), and employing a gambit only to not really do anything with the results. Also the Io vote and unvote was odd, why did they vote in the first place if they thought she wasn't a good lynch candidate?
Purrcocet- Is mostly null due to a lack of AI content, but I don't like their push against GE due to it seeming like tunneling. This player needs to be sorted properly because they have been under little to no pressure and have offered little content to the game.
Akarin-Null due to lack of content. I don't like the naked vote on Dave, but I feel like he wouldn't be someone that scum would try to push at this stage with easier lynches available. Like Purrcocet,I think they need to be sorted.
Davesaz-Slight town for making logical arguments, posting opinions at times like the Lapsa scumread and Saudade townread, and seeming like they want to solve the game. Their questioning seems like part of their playstyle, so i"m not scumreading them for that.
Garmr-null for only having one AI post, I want them to come back from their VLA so I can get a better read on them.
Saudade-scum for tunneling me while throwing out random reads like Mala being town and purcoccet being scary without explanation. I think its odd they have good arguments to give for my lynch,but are very lazy when giving reads or talking about other people than me. Their opinion on me doesn't seem natural.
Malakittens-Mostly Null, I disliked the vote against Umlaut, but he didn't look like someone weak to a push. It's probable they just have different opinions when it comes to scumhunting. The fact that they pushed Nosferatu was suspicious because it felt like taking an easy justification for a vote, however they also gave him time to respond and only voted after he refused to talk,which I can get because I also disliked Nos's behavior. They have had a mix of scummy and towny moments, so they mostly balance out in my mind.- Completly Trustworthy
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Excepting your comment about my reason for thinking they are probably not the same allignment, which I explained in 101, your points were mostly good. I'm no longer sure of Popo being a bad townie and would like him to get lynched at some point in the game, but not this day.- Completly Trustworthy
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Rationalizing my read of you with evidence is not OMGUS. I don't like the fact that you can come up with arguments against me in posts like 228 and 214 and then also post lazy reads without evidence like in 305, 307,and and 310. You are just tunneling me while pretending you are actually interested in scumhunting.- Completly Trustworthy
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Now, the main reason I haven't liked Nos for a while is I feel like I know little about him or what he believes, that shouldn't be the case for the top poster. The first game-relevant post he made was 107, where he said it was a bad idea to lynch me D1, which was either his fourteenth or fifteenth. Also, I haven't heard him talk about many players other than me. Even his gambit seems weird to me, 155 does not sound like someone's who's satisfied their gambit is going perfectly okay. I think he only decided to do it when he began to ask me questions in 157. Therefore I am at a loss to explain 108 and that doesn't sit well with me since I agree with 284. I would like a reads list similar to the one I posted from him to know where he stands after all these posts.- Completly Trustworthy
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Answer to 421
I'd assume you'd think I'm nullish due to saying I look towny in 377 and I appear like scum in 241.
I think you believe Io is scum, but don't want her lynched on D1, similar to how I feel about Popo.
You probably don't think highly of Dave based on your comments in 202 and 242.
You are probably null on Mala due to starting the wagon in order to sort people and seeming to accept her explanation in 284.
I'm not sure of your reads on other people.- Completly Trustworthy
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Reading 468 was quite discomforting to me. First Tictac started out by saying that Gamma might be scum due to having an informed POV, but that was because Gamma was acting differently than usual and breaking their meta read. Any player has a general knowledge of their own meta and can change it, so I don't see what the problem is. Then they went on say another post looked towny, but could have been made by scum, ending that section with no conclusion. Afterwards there were a few comments on posts, but several were completely irrelevant to the game and the only two that contained actual content involved agreeing with other's points. I feel like that post has little substance despite being relatively long.- Completly Trustworthy
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Purrcocet, what did you mean when you said Lapsa pointed out Akarin as town in 518? I don't think that happened.
Akarin, thank you for explaining your vote without me asking you, though I have to wonder why you didn't do it earlier.
I agree with 519 because I think that scum like to try to make it seem as if they are producing new content while saying nothing at all. Common techniques involve making a lot of irrelevant posts, summarizing the game while coming to few conclusions, and asking people for information while not using that information to make reads. That's part of the issue I have with Tictac right now, several of his posts feature a lot of commenting, but little solving. For instance, in 370 he gives one word answers to various questions and finishes by sheeping someone else. He's a player I would like to see a readslist from because I know little about what he thinks of the game so far. I also have issues with Saudade doing this, as I outlined in 404. His ISO is littered with naked calls for my lynch, reads made with little explanation, and shitposts.- Completly Trustworthy
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The only town-motivated reason I can think of for Popo acting this way when he can play better is if he wants to test people's reactions and see who pushes him. However, that is unlikely since I think he would have done something with this gambit by now and wouldn't have risked making himself so suspicious that nobody would trust what he says, potentially getting himself lynched anyway.- Completly Trustworthy
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Saudade, you haven't made a case against me for a long time, I would really like to know why you are so interested in tunneling me.
Dave, why do you find me scummy? I remember you talking about a scumtell, but I'm not sure what you mean by that.
Tictac, why have you been ignoring me? Are you not interested in elaborating on your reads at this point in time?- Completly Trustworthy
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Technically, Saudade did change his reason for wanting me lynched. He initially said I was scummy for "alienating" myself and not taking stances. Now he claims I'm being reactionary. In both cases, I didn't really understand his logic as the claims that I was alienating myself and being reactionary were kind of vague without actual examples to back them up.- Completly Trustworthy
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I don't like how Tictac has not been answering my questions and has generally been extremely unhelpful this game. Most of their posts have been worthless or contain little content relative to their size like 468 I think this deserves a push.
VOTE: tictac- Completly Trustworthy
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I don't like that Tictac is continually dodging my question, I asked for reads because I wanted to know their stances on the players since they've been relatively quiet this game.Instead they've just ignored my request and not understood why I was scumreading them. I've disliked them for a while because both of their main votes were for relatively weak reasons, especially the one on Gamma, and they seemed to take a fencesitting position on their supposed scumreads. I think its very odd to say someone is scum and then go talking about how some of their posts could have made by their town self. I'm not scumreading them because they attempted to resolve a conflicted read, its because they suddenly waffled on someone they said was scum earlier.- Completly Trustworthy
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I am new to forum mafia, this is my third game in this format.
I'd still like other people to reply to my 875 though, I think the players in this game have been strangely silent when it concerns him.
Performer, why is Umlaut replacing out because he didn't have time towny? Any player could become busy enough that they can't post, regardless of allignment. Also, do you think that Scioness wasn't coasting since you put it in quotation marks? If you believe she was accused unfairly, then why is Nos voting her because of that towny?- Completly Trustworthy
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I liked Tictac's take on me in 942, it was different from other reads on me and seemed to be relatively well-reasoned. I still want to know their opinions on other players though, they still haven't given the readslist I asked for.
I didn't like 960, at the time Hugo probably thought it put Dave at L-1 due to what Nos said. It seemed odd that they voted for him at such an important moment after not talking about him for the entire game simply because they wanted day 2 to come. It seemed kind of lazy and expressed an apathetic attitude which you don't often see from townies interested in scumhunting.
Also, Dave, why is Garmr in your lynchpool, is it because he pushed you?- Completly Trustworthy
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I don't understand what tone change you are referring to Dave? Are you saying I stopped asking questions because Io said they thought it was scummy? I don't think that is correct since I didn't stop doing it as posts like 444, 758, and 788 can attest.
Also, you didn't say you wanted Lapsa lynched in 969. What caused you to change your mind? - Completly Trustworthy
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