Mini Normal 2033: Dolphins (Game Over)

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Dva

Serious vote for that pre-game replacement.

[Alchemist21]

Nothing to say about the other votes on you?

[Alchemist21]

2. It's in the OP.

[Alchemist21]

Well, post after the OP.

[Alchemist21]

I'm stealing this page top.

[Alchemist21]

Told you I'd do it.

[Alchemist21]

I thought this game would be a bit more active at the start.

[Alchemist21]

Lets play a game,

Maybe it's because I've been playing too much Dead By Daylight but this made me think of Jigsaw.

What do you think about the current DVA wagon?

[Alchemist21]

Ok. Mine was serious though. I honestly think it's likely that Scioness saw a red role PM and replaced out in the pre-game, and I feel like the others who also voted that slot feel the same way as I do.

[Alchemist21]

Just to clarify, when I say them I mean voting going on for dis/Db etc and that whole group.

Dva votes and ppl bringing up the other person drops out of red roles, I don’t like and I read as scummy. Couldn’t tell if they are serious or not.

If I tell you I’m being serious then I’m being serious.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Saudade
Nothing better to do.

There was stuff to comment on by the time this post was made.

FOS on this slot.

[Alchemist21]

Yeah I can see both sides here and I think it has everything to do with experience levels.

[Alchemist21]

I think Gamma has grown to like me
funny enough his reaction to me in our first game was much like Guerilla's

That’s why I made the comment about his method not working: I saw past!me in what he was doing.

Wait were you Town when you played with Saudade before? If so then why are you voting someone who’s reminding you of yourself in a previous Town game?

[Alchemist21]

Well keep waiting. I don’t need to link you to things we both know are true.

We don’t agree though. So You need to link it so the rest of the players can decide for themselves.

Why don’t you link the game so we can all see it?

[Alchemist21]

Feels like town v town to me.

I feel the same.

Ezekel ISO in the previous game shows that he does withhold his vote.

Doughboy has been doing some ballsy stuff this game if he’s scum, and the last game shows a big back and forth between him and Ezekel and that old interaction has probably painted Doughboy’s memory of him especially considering Doughboy had never mentioned Ezekel in that game until shit went down.

[Alchemist21]

My answer to all 3 is that he’s the stubborn type who doesn’t really know what he’s doing.

[Alchemist21]

Arguing is what this entire game is about. Sometimes the arguments are stupid; sometimes they’re not.

[Alchemist21]

Hey Gamma can you answer 141 please?

[Alchemist21]

I can kinda see it too, just seemed weird when you compared him to yourself like that.

VOTE: GuerillaWoo

[Alchemist21]

Let’s re-kindle that wagon then.

VOTE: Dva

[Alchemist21]

What is this “we?” You’re not putting your vote where your mouth is, which is what I kinda expected.

Your response to Gamma’s vote on Dva was to agree with the wagon, then throw shade on a ton of other slots and vote none of them. I thought it was scummy because it looked like you were just paying lip service to the wagon without actually wanting to be on it, and that post right there proves it.

Guerilla is scum.

VOTE: GuerillaWoo

[Alchemist21]

Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?

[Alchemist21]

There is no 3rd. This was brought up before.

[Alchemist21]

Why not Guerilla?

[Alchemist21]

I read it but stuff’s happened since then.

[Alchemist21]

^scummy and fluffy

You just said you didn’t think there shouldn’t be focus on Tommy and now you’re cool with it? And he just said ON THIS PAGE how he’s reading LTVN. That was a fluff question to try and make yourself look like you’re engaging his slot.

[Alchemist21]

Lets play a game,
First to vote me gets lynched today.

I am the best.

Because I'm good at this game

by the gods am I really that good
is it Tommy and Gambit

Posts like these make me think Saudade is Town. It’s a lot of attention-attracting bravado if he’s scum. What would scum him D2 if he was wrong on someone? Keep forcing that confidence after destroying his credibility? Also considering he hasn’t moved to the Guerill wagon to try and push a counterwagon to his own, I’m sure he’s Town.

[Alchemist21]

opportunistic jump on the wagon

There was barely a wagon to begin with it was just a handful of random votes.

Thanks mate, but I was fourth on the wagon.

I thought the case on GuerillaWoo is pretty good until I got to post 258, which is very town.

I don't believe either of Saudade's 'town slips' about the set-up.

Not ready to go back to DVa yet. Let's get some more posts from them first. Don't think there's much of a case on LTVNGambit either.

What do you find Town about 285? I think LTVN made a mistake that was an easy push for Guerilla. That post isn’t a beacon of Towniness to me and it certainly doesn’t outweigh the case on him.

[Alchemist21]

GuerillaWoo: what happened, man? You were town-reading me 24 hours ago and now you're voting me? Is it because I'm in a 'weird unspoken relationship' or are you sheeping Saudade?

I think it’s pretty clear that this was Guerilla’s cheeky reaponse to me saying Saudade was Town partly due to him not voting for the counterwagon to him. So Guerilla just plopped a vote on the same wagon as Saudade as a middle finger to me. Don’t buy into his tactics. Vote Guerilla.

[Alchemist21]

Lol flubber

[Alchemist21]

I think giving you until Friday is fair. The game is kinda content-heavy.

[Alchemist21]

No. Guerilla’s still scum but he’s not bullshitting on this. He wasn’t referring to you when he made the “lingering in the background” comment. I’ll even quote the post and point it out if you need me to.

[Alchemist21]

Actually having reread the thread, and despite honestly

having zero issues with a Saudade lynch

on D1, this is where my vote belongs

VOTE: LTVNGambit

GuerillaWoo, why LTVNGambit?

Gamma Emerald, do you think Saudade's posts are coming from town?

Came in and voted Saudade then left. Think that was his only game related post. There's another user who hasn't come in at all afaik but I'm guessing the kick will catch him instead. I'd rather get people contributing rn tbh

Good vote though, you win games on this website often?

Yeah, again, not a single issue if y'all wanna lynch this guy. Don't care if he's scum or not. If he's scum he's just gonna linger in the background doing this shit, and if he's town he's just gonna linger in the background doing this shit. Lame

He was talking about Saudade. Not you.

In a vacuum that post can look like he’s talking about you but the earlier context makes it a lot clearer.

[Alchemist21]

Saudade is... strange. VOTE: Saudade 2irony4me. Hasn't really chimed in even when prompted, quadruple posting, essentially gave a non-answer with that short story collection. Can't tell if scummy or just annoying. Guess we'll find out what the price is for voting for him second?

Meant to include this part to, which is the origin of the “linger in the background” sentiment.

[Alchemist21]

I was never even scumreading you for the joke and it’s a misrep to say I was. And there’s been more reasons since then. The only people you could fool into thinking there isn’t a case on you are people who haven’t read.

[Alchemist21]

You’ve missed a lot actually and are still misrepping me. But I don’t care to try convincing scum that they’re scum because that’s a fool’s errand. When the people who need to finish catching up have done so we can move on with lynching you.

[Alchemist21]

My ISO isn’t my mind exactly. The case is there and it’s no use to act like it’s not.

[Alchemist21]

Prohawk what are your reads right now?

[Alchemist21]

What would make it easier for you to engage the thread? Because I don’t think the fighting’s going to stop.

[Alchemist21]

Someone to engage me? What are your reads?

Gamma, Saudade, Doughboy, LTVN, and Ezekel are all Town to me.

Tommy, Dva, Flubber, and you are all null to me.

Guerilla is scum to me.

[Alchemist21]

- Gamm votes Dva
- Guerilla calls it good wagon; also throws shade on a ton of other slots and doesn’t vote anyone
- I vote Dva
- Guerilla still doesn’t join (but talks as if he had)
- Guerilla proceeds to scum flail and attempt several scummy tactics to defend himself

That’s the in-a-nutshell version.

[Alchemist21]

Lol no.

[Alchemist21]

Oh please do keep reminding everyone about that post. Saves me the trouble of having to repeat myself.

[Alchemist21]

He has a scum guide? I only know of his Town guide. Link please?

[Alchemist21]

Don’t know who Lord Gurgi is, but thanks.

[Alchemist21]

Page 9 is where the fun begins.

[Alchemist21]

Saudade is weird

What makes him weird?

What do you think of my posts about Guerilla?

Why did you vote Tommy?

[Alchemist21]

intent to hammer

then.

I still strongly prefer Guerilla but I’m not opposed to a DVA lynch.

[Alchemist21]

Oh I forgot Saudade left the wagon.

[Alchemist21]

Votecount 1.6

GuerillaWoo (4) - LTVNGambit, Alchemist21, Gamma Emerald, Doughboy
DVa (4) - ProHawk, Saudade, Tommy, GuerillaWoo
Doughboy (1) - EzekelRAGE
Tommy (1) - DVa

Not Voting (1) - Flubbernugget

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2018-09-28 12:35:27).

VC before I switched

You were saying...?

Saudade switched to Doughboy

[Alchemist21]

Saudade is weird

What makes him weird?

What do you think of my posts about Guerilla?

Why did you vote Tommy?

Do I really need to explain why Saudade is weird? Seems self evident to me

Gorilla is town and you are town so I disagree with your case on him

ny other questions I missed earlier?

I don’t know whether you were calling his personality weird or his actions and yeah I wanted some clarification there because it told me very little about how you were reading him.

[Alchemist21]

Hi Wilky. I hope you never change that avi.

[Alchemist21]

Someone to engage me? What are your reads?

Gamma, Saudade, Doughboy, LTVN, and Ezekel are all Town to me.

Tommy, Dva, Flubber, and you are all null to me.

Guerilla is scum to me.

[Alchemist21]

Someone to engage me? What are your reads?

Gamma, Saudade, Doughboy, LTVN, and Ezekel are all Town to me.

Tommy, Dva, Flubber, and you are all null to me.

Guerilla is scum to me.

Talk to me about Ezekel? By looking at the iso's Ezekel seemed to be the one who was trying to keep the 1v1 going. The iso pretty much filled with the 1v1 until the last couple of posts and it also reminds me of a scum game I had before where I dragged Gustavo into a 1v1 and kept it going to bog down the thread, split the town and make people choose sides.

From the game that got linked their 1v1 made sense as two Townies who still had issues with each other.

[Alchemist21]

If you want to lessen that noise then just stop talking about it and find something else to talk about.

[Alchemist21]

Pretty sure Toranaga is Town now. I recently had a game with him where he replaced into a scum slot and didn’t do nearly as much as he has here.

[Alchemist21]

I think Prohawk’s posts are scummy while Flubber’s are Towny.

[Alchemist21]

Yes. The one thing that gives me pause on Guerilla was his earlier threat to self-hammer but I don’t know how serious he was about that and I’ve been mulling over whether that alone outweighs everything I scumread him for.

[Alchemist21]

stop being a pussy and vote me then

Uh huh.

Got an associative tell for you all: I suggest that Toranaga's behaviour strengthens the case on ProHawk.

Toranaga posted a lot of stuff about how ProHawk is scum. Then ProHawk made a major swerve in approach. Then Toranaga did the same. My theory is:

1) Toranaga arrives and sees that ProHawk's play has been scummy.
2) Toranaga tells ProHawk to change his approach and warns him that he (Toranaga) will need to distance himself.
3) Toranaga proceeds to trash ProHawk's play in the game thread.
4) ProHawk makes an abrupt and unconvincing change in tone, which attracts votes and makes him the leading wagon. Toranaga hasn't anticipated this, and now has a difficult choice.
5) Toranaga elects not to bus his partner, choosing the unpalatable option of jumping on a wagon that he'd hitherto set up as a null read.

But why would Toranaga have brought thatmuch attention to his partner when nobody else really cared about ProHawk at the time? That’s fixing what ain’t broke and Toranaga doesn’t strike me as the type of person to make such a mistake.

[Alchemist21]

He had some pretty strong and confident language in his Prohawk scumread which isn’t something I’d expect from someone trying to distance without bussing.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Tommy

966 is the scummiest post in the whole game imo.

[Alchemist21]

I think Toranaga is being the Towniest Town and Tommy’s post looks like a scummy attempt to shade the slot to me.

[Alchemist21]

You were one of my strongest town reads and with 1 post you flushed it all down the drain. such a shame.

Funny because with a single post Tommy managed to make me shift away from Guerilla. That should tell you just how scummy I find that post.

[Alchemist21]

It’s been brought up before in the ideas section but I can’t remember why exactly we don’t have them aside from there’s nobody available to work on them. Like most people who have the programming ability to make one don’t have the time to do it.

[Alchemist21]

But yeah the bells and whistles on MU are pretty cool.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Tommy

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Tommy

what are you doing

Voting scum while waiting for everyone else to report in.

[Alchemist21]

Gamma come vote Tommy with me.

[Alchemist21]

He’s not.

Deep deep down I still want that Guerilla lynch.

[Alchemist21]

I’m thinking he’s Town, just tripping on his words. Like Gamma, I don’t see him pushing an agenda here.

[Alchemist21]

here comes another game where I patiently await the end game thread to tell everyone

I
TOLD
YOU
SO

This makes me think you’re scum tbh

I’m still pretty sure Saudade is Town. He and I are feeling the same things about different people.

[Alchemist21]

Whqt do you think Alchemist

You and Tora have been my top Townreads.

I still think it’s Guerilla and Tommy as the scumteam. I might post the full details of my case when I get time later today or tomorrow, but there are points I know are going to be hard to convince people with until we get one of them flipped first.

[Alchemist21]

@Tora, why do you think Gamma would keep pushing an already hammered player as scum? Why wouldn’t he do it as Town? What you’re scumreading him for seems more like a Towntell imo.

[Alchemist21]

V/LA through Sunday

[Alchemist21]

Alright I’m back. What’d I miss?

[Alchemist21]

Why is there a wagon on Wilky?

[Alchemist21]

Yeah Gamma said he tracked Flubber.

[Alchemist21]

Saudade can you read 1604 and tell me what you think. Same to Alchemist21.

For an 11-p with a 2-man scumteam I wouldn't expect scum to have any PRs because on Mafiascum Towns have such bad winrates that giving scum any PRs means you've already given the Town a lot of power. So if Gamma tracked Flubber and saw he targeted someone and that person did not die then it's reasonable to assume they are a Town PR. He doesn't have to wait for the actual claim in that case.

Now balance-wise, Tracker and Doc in the same setup when there's only 2 scum seems a bit like follow the cop, but if either of them are x-shot it's a non issue.

Someone tell me exactly

why

Gamma claimed because that's the part I'm missing here. Was it to save Flubber from the lynch post-claim?

[Alchemist21]

Why though? Serious question because I didn't read the posts that got made while I was V/LA.

[Alchemist21]

mafiascum is making me a bad player I'm not gonna lie

Wouldn't surprise me tbh because like I said before MafiaScum Town winrates are bad. It's not often I play offsite and it's been a while since I have, but every time I've played on another site I've done markedly better.

I think what it is is that the longer dayphases give scum more time to let pressure on them de-escalate. Like, you catch scum in a 24/48 hr Day and they start flailing because they have to defuse the suspicion on them quickly. On MafiaScum you can wagon scum and they can literally just shut up and wait until some Townie says something to draw everyone's attention away. Plus games tend to fall into apathetic states where people just stop caring which lets scum coast to a win.

[Alchemist21]

No we lynch whichever fucker threw that blue shell.

[Alchemist21]

I'd say if not a full 24 hours then give him until tomorrow afternoon. I just checked and saw there's only like 2 days left in the Day anyway.

[Alchemist21]

It's right there in the signature.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Tommy

966 is the scummiest post in the whole game imo.

Can you expand on this? It feels super reachy, but idk about that status

Pretty sure I explained what I meant within a few posts after that.

[Alchemist21]

You tell me. You’re the one who did it.

[Alchemist21]

You gotta start making pictures with these vote cascades.

[Alchemist21]

Fuck it. I’ll hammer him. If he hasn’t shown up by now he’s not going to and frankly I’m just ready for the game to move on, claim or no claim.

VOTE: Wilky

[Alchemist21]

I guess Tora’s the only one who makes sense here. The only vote I could see being a bus is Creature’s but his vote was just thrown out there; he didn’t really push for or against the wagon.

VOTE: Toranaga

[Alchemist21]

Well who do you think is scum?

[Alchemist21]

Creature is most likely right now imo because his Wilky vote was just put there. Didn’t really seem to have a reason and I’ve seen lazy bus votes before. The catch here is that it was middle of the wagon and I don’t think anyone was pressuring him into doing it at the time so I don’t know why he actually did it as scum.

Guerilla had that thing with the Dva wagon on D1 and for a time I considered Guerilla/Dva the most likely team. Tommy was my second candidate for the partner and as time went on it seemed more likely it was Tommy although it wasn’t until quite some time later that Tommy was scummy in a vacuum. Guerilla’s wilky vote came later when the wagon was more certain, but his tone towards the slot seemed more Town to me and less like scum because he was pushing for someone to hammer instead of trying to stall out. The catch here is that if he knew his partner was going to get lynched then he could have tried to get whatever Towncred he could out of it.

Actually, writing all this out is making me think Guerilla makes more sense. Either way I plan on reading through both their posts later on.

Tommy’s likely going to be killed since he’s Tracker-cleared so Saudade’s the Towniest slot that will go into lylo. I think he needs to figure out who he would rather take to LyLo if we don’t lynch scum today.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Dva

Serious vote for that pre-game replacement.

Town

That’s a bit of a backpedal on me there, Creature. What changed?

[Alchemist21]

Alchemist21, have you ever hammered an empty slot as town? If so, can you link us to the game?

I can’t remember if I have or not. I’m usually not the hammer at all.

[Alchemist21]

Creature are you gonna answer my question?

[Alchemist21]

So how was my post Town if it was also something I could easily fake as scum?

And if my voting for Dva early on can be faked as scum why do you think we should Townread you just for voting the slot?

Your logic is inconsistent because you’re trying to justify this new scumread on me any way you can instead of forming reads to match evidence.

[Alchemist21]

If I had been here since RVS I wouldn't even be considered here.

Saudade should be able to tell whether this is my towngame or not

It shouldn't be that rocket science to read me

I replaced in voting wilky

Only hesitated when wilky started flaking out and Tora voting him bothered me

huh idk, it sucks when you can't obvtown other than lynching the last scum

Creature has a huge concern this Day about people Townreading him. He keeps insisting we should be reading him as Town but the actual reasons why fall flat. Meanwhile he can only push me for ??? and thinks my D1 Dva vote shouldn’t be Townread but his Wilky vote when he replaced in should. It all reads like he’s just trying to survive the Day phase.

Side note that if Ezekial was scum then the Doughboy kill makes a lot of sense.

VOTE: Creature

[Alchemist21]

I don’t think he really soft claimed though.

And thanks!

[Alchemist21]

The one during RVS.

[Alchemist21]

If you’re looking for my scum games then click my wiki page and you’ll see all my completed games.

[Alchemist21]

Idk. On one hand Creature’s flailing hard like I expect the last scum would do. OTOH the tone is kinda convincing.

I’ll admit I’ve grown a bit paranoid of Saudade as well but that’s because he’s been telling everyone else to do stuff but I haven’t seen him doing anything himself. Thing is though, Saudade had no need to bus the slot because he was already in a good position and I don’t think people wanted Wilky all that much. If Creature flips I’ll re-examine but I’m not willing to let my paranoia drive me nuts this phase.

@Tommy, when I said I’m not usually the hammer, that’s true for bith alignments. Had I intended to bus I would have made my decision on Wilky sooner, and regardless I probably would have pushed the fact that he was absent to try to save him from the lynch and push elsewhere.

[Alchemist21]

Nah I don’t really think you are. I’d have to squint really hard to see it.

[Alchemist21]

If Tomorrow happens I’ll have to re-evaluate everything because I’m scumreading neither Saudade nor GW right now.

[Alchemist21]

I think you’re the one suffering from conf bias here.

[Alchemist21]

Well at least now I know it has to be Guerilla.

VOTE: GuerillaWoo

@Tommy, if you think I’m pulling a wifom stunt where I kept the confTown that was suspecting me alive at lylo and vote me for it I will slap you afterwards.

[Alchemist21]

I wouldn’t kill you anymore than I’d kill Saudade. I’d always kill the confTown going into lylo. Always.

[Alchemist21]

There’s 1 post where Saudade mentions lynching me today and he’s not even sure about it. That’s hardly enough suspicion to warrant killing him over Tommy.

[Alchemist21]

Keeping Tommy alive is a smart move for you because Tommy really wanted me lynched. It’s a dumb move for me and I would never make it. Gambits don’t top common sense in my playbook.

[Alchemist21]

It’s not brilliant and why the hell would I think convincing Tommy would be easier than convincing you or Saudade to vote the other?

My choices as scum were:

1.) Convince the guy dead set on me being scum that I’m not.

2.) Convince 1 of 2 guys that aren’t sure who’s scum that the other of them is scum.

The correct choice is clear as day.

[Alchemist21]

Your proposed order is just a different order of what’s happened. You lynched Creature yesterday and today you’re trying to get Tommy to lynch me. I bet by the time you even thought about lynching me with Tommy (if you even thought about it yesterday) then you must have thought about it after you said something you couldn’t take back without looking scummy as hell.

[Alchemist21]

You’ve played well as well.

[Alchemist21]

You’re killing me, Smalls!

[Alchemist21]

*slaps Tommy*

Good game everyone. Guerilla played really well to carry all the way with inactive partners.

FUCKING HELL TOMMY
ALSO ALCHEMIST WHY DIF YOU NOT SELF META

I kinda was doing self-meta. I think the kill should have made it obvious I wasn’t scum.

[Alchemist21]

Oh and happy birthday, Guerilla!

[Alchemist21]

Idk how that game would even apply here. I had very little input on those Night Kills.