Once more, a mastina 13-player pre-designed setup

[schadd_]

yo

[schadd_]

in my memory neighbors haven't been great town utility - site culture has a lot of people that specifically enjoy and put a lot of effort into pocketing specific people and i have seen scum on several occasions make very effective use out of neighborhoods or even like specifically gameplan around them

the hood between town i think will be a bit of a positive utility (people just innately townread ppl they are hooded with a little bit) and the neighborizer can probably interact with the masons decently. i still think it needs a little bit more power - town odd-night rolecop maybe? i like it when neighborizer can try to hit an informed role like that and also rolecop is kind of weak in that people will think pt cop is a town role i think

[schadd_]

ooh how about odd rc even motion detector to make use of the new exciting hybrid role change

[schadd_]

yeah

also make it multitasking for funzies even though that doesn't have an effect

wanna push against the natural tendency of setup design to not include things where they don't have a use

something like a loud townie is something i'd also want for example

[schadd_]

you say that but i think a town ninja would be apt

[schadd_]

like pre-designed setups are the nrg's way of saying "here are things you should perhaps be doing in your normal setups" and i think a garbage festival of false positive townroles is something i think would push the normal queue towards where i want it

[schadd_]

disagree that massclaim makes neighbors seem town, maybe the neighborizer

there could be a traitor if 2 scum are left

town neighbor + scum neighbor can be seen as positive town utility as there is another way for that town to sort someone (doesnt apply to scum neighborizer as much)

i have modded a game where two entire ass town PRs claimed VT in lylo

scum can potentially notice that gap and claim PRs themselves

with rare exceptions that mastina is the designer of the setup, most people aren't going to ask "is the mod trying to tell us something?" if PR strength doesnt add up, nor will they be that confident about PR strength to begin with

people also i think tend to look for interruptions in the pattern rather than assume it holds, like, "which of these neighborhood roles is scum? there's gotta be at least one"

[schadd_]

implo this is why ninja should be blacklisted

[schadd_]

something i'm considering is adding some informed role that tips the balance towards figuring out what you want. something kind of obvious but might be useful is having the neighborizer be informed that one of the neighbors is town, or one of the neighbors knowing the other is town, or one of the neighbors knowing the neighborizer is town, etc. it's only one piece of information but it sorta like, puts the idea in people's heads? like if one neighbor knows the other is town it's easy to conclude they're essentially just masons, also if the neighborhood knows the neighborizer is town it reflects well on whomever the informed one is

i don't think that a town pt cop is impossible here (you could make the argument that it's already strong for town and a role that can only get a few innocents is still strong esp. with a lot of other possibly town power), however i think the converse is true, that a PT cop flip looks really good for all town roles with PTs

rolecop result on a neighborizer is trivial because a townie that gets neighborized essentially receives that result

something like an even-night motion detector, alternately, is enough for me to be fine with the balance

i think it should be public who designed the setup, that's a kind of important norm of the rest of the queue and is a nonzero part of most games. it's also yucky that nrg players would just know this, although not many of us regularly play in the normal queue

[schadd_]

novice 1-shot rolecop 2-shot motion detector???????????????????????????????????

[schadd_]

loud odd-night fv even night md?

just bc loud fruit vendor has only appeared twice and been a scum role which i think is silly

[schadd_]

i think it should be public who designed the setup, that's a kind of important norm of the rest of the queue and is a nonzero part of most games. it's also yucky that nrg players would just know this, although not many of us regularly play in the normal queue

probably ought to make a thread about this after this game ends

might not be an issue to make it now but might be leaky in some way

[schadd_]

loud odd-night fv even night md?
just bc loud fruit vendor has only appeared twice and been a scum role which i think is silly

Not quite the word order I'd use, since with that, the motion detector would also be loud. (Which I suppose is okay, but I feel acts as a nerf to the investigative as it tips the scum off too early.)

Odd-night Loud Fruit Vendor, Even Night Motion Detector?

oh huh i guess it does work like that

we should standardize whether modifiers interact with multi-roles; multitasking for example is a global modifier but it's not entirely clear why it differs from e.g. odd-night

[schadd_]

oh worm

[schadd_]

anyway /pass with odd-night [...] role

[schadd_]

is this discount retroactive

[schadd_]

i dont see it formally anywhere so the final setup is:
town:
2 masons
2 neighbors
1 odd-night loud fruit vendor even-night motion detector
5 VTs
scum:
2 goons
1 PT cop

so yes the big odd even monstrosity ended up replacing a VT

your resolution questions:
1. yup
2. assuming you mean someone about to get neighborized - yes it would get a positive, generally investigative roles happen "last", which is to say they take into account things that happened that night (for watcher and tracker this is intuitive)

[schadd_]

what i would do is one pm called "night 1 results" with:
-you have received fruit!
-[player] has visited you last night
in randomized order. i think its reasonably clear that they're separate things with that, and like people will probably think "oh loud fruit vendor" either way

incidentally in the past i have given this message except it was from two different roles and also i told the player his results in person

[schadd_]

oh heck my bad sorry

yes implo gives you modding priv

[schadd_]

viewtopic.php?f=90&t=78233

looks like overki11 accidentally flipped vt at endgame